36:48

Kidney Vigor, UTIs & Urinary Health With Ayurveda

by Dylan Smith

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The kidneys and urinary tract are two underestimated and often neglected organ systems that can easily lead to uncomfortable & painful states of illness in the body. On this podcast episode, we dive into the ins and outs of kidney function & how to optimise it, along with the Ayurvedic View on Urinary Tract Infections (UTIs) and how to both prevent and help this common infectious disease.

UtiUrinary HealthAyurvedaDigestionWaterVitaminsHerbsBloodPranayamaProstate HealthSexual HealthKidney HealthDigestive HealthBalance Between Structure And FlowVitamin DUrinary Tract HealthFluidsHerbal MedicineKidneysRed Blood Cell IncreasesUrinary Tract InfectionsWater TherapyAyurvedic Medicine

Transcript

Kidneys,

Very important organs outside of its function of regulating fluid retention.

Perhaps even kidneys are the most important organ in the body.

Hello welcome to the vital VEDA show I'm your host Dylan Smith I'm an A-VEDA practitioner and holistic health educator and someone who is very fascinated by those two fist thingies on either side of your spine at the lower level of your rib cage and that are the kidneys.

These two very important organs that perhaps don't get enough appreciation and attention beyond just fluid regulation is what typical people think.

And what really,

Not only kidneys we're going to discuss today in brief,

We're going to discuss also about urinary tract infections and the urinary tract because UTIs are so common,

Particularly in women but in many people and it's just extremely prevalent over half women will get UTIs so and it can be very painful and needing for antibiotics,

Painkillers so we're going to go into that.

But firstly of course it's related with the kidneys and urinary tract and as I said there's that you've got two on the lower level of your rib cage,

You kind of feel them if you squeeze it they're about the size of your fist so you put your fist at the lower end of your rib cage you can feel that tender spot.

In fact we do specific treatments to kidneys in A-VEDA called busties like a coloma bustie and we'll do that on that area basically make essentially a doughnut out of dough and make it large and put it over each kidney and fill that up with medicated oil and we do that for diabetics and anyone with kidney disorders.

But we're going to speak more about the urinary tract and as I said kidneys are not even like yes they help with fluid regulation but they're these powerful chemical factories that remove wastes from the body,

They remove drugs from the body like any pharmaceutical medication or drugs,

They balance the body's fluids,

They release hormones that regulate blood pressure,

They definitely play a big role in blood pressure and they even help produce an active form of vitamin D which is like the most crucial hormone,

It's a hormone for energy and vitality and for immune system.

Bone health is just one thing but immunity and Alzheimer's and neurological health,

So many things and it also even kidneys play a role in the production of red blood cells.

So weak kidneys definitely correlate with the digestive system as I said the kidneys are playing a role in removing waste products and filtering and just dealing with it so it filters everything we eat and drink and your digestive strength,

Which we call an Ayurvedic Agni,

That will determine the load on your kidneys.

Now by the way you can survive even with one kidney,

People donate kidneys,

One of their kidneys out of their two but mostly with this inevitable toxic world we're living in,

Inevitable to some extent,

You can definitely reduce it significantly but especially with people drinking tap water for most of their life and like your kidneys are going to be vulnerable and we really want to have a strong digestion so that they don't get prone to disease and this can definitely lead to things like diabetes or kidney failure or even correlating with the liver,

So many aspects within that abdominal organ area we can prevent this by having good digestion and optimizing our digestion and we do that in Ayurveda and we've done a whole course on the essence of Ayurvedic nutrition which not only teaches you about the essence of Ayurvedic nutrition but teaches you about how to apply that in every area of life and how to optimize your Agni or digestive fire and then specifically I do that a lot in my consultations we work on specific digestion,

Everyone's got a unique digestive tract and we optimize that for proper elimination,

Digestive comfort,

Digestive energy,

You should be feeling energy after food,

You should be having comfort,

You should be feeling good,

You should not have any discomfort,

You should have proper elimination of the waste in the morning before any food or coffee,

A good bowel motion,

Not too loose and good quality so this is all when this is maintained this is definitely going to take pressure off the kidneys.

What else puts strain on the kidneys?

Well definitely big things are cold foods and cold drinks,

These like freeze our kidneys it makes it hard and constrict and like it's like when you jump into cold water you constrict your heart,

You make it easy baby like let me have a nice enjoyable indulgence in the water and the food that I'm interacting with and furthermore you make that water hot like sip hot water it is such powerful medicine just like hot water washes grease off dirty dishes it does the same in the intestines and even in the filtration pathways of the urinary tract and the mutravahasrata we call it,

The urinary channels and the kidneys so when we're sipping hot water it's like melting the toxins in our body and it's hot water dilates it opens up it's extremely powerful medicine don't underestimate this powerful purification technique it's so simple sip hot water throughout the day it's not about how much water you drink it's about how frequently you sip it especially if there's kidney disease we need to be very we need to monitor the amount of water and urinary tract infections we need to monitor the amount of water because a lot of those times excess water can be an issue however sipping small quantities throughout the day frequently is very helpful for the kidneys and for the urinary tract it's one of the most powerful medicine definitely do not drink the cold water and of course whenever you can avoid painkillers avoid medications you know we don't want to be taking these unnecessarily these type of drugs usually are more reserved for acute conditions we want to use them as a last resort we want to utilize the body's own mechanisms to heal itself and deal with even any chronic disorders and if there are medications involved this is what I love to do with patients absolutely is if they want to get off them which is a wise thing according to the medication of course then we can trigger with the herbs and with the protocol and the digestion and the diet we can activate the body's own mechanisms to start healing itself so that it can become self-sustainable and you can go back to your doctor and with their guidance and with their recommendations and under their care you can gradually reduce and potentially wean off the medicine medication so this is a wise thing for the kidneys and kidneys also in Ayurveda are correlated with your energy they are not only the filtration of fluid but they absorb and they balance the body's fluid so we have this fluid in Ayurveda which we call Ojas which is like a bio-celestial liquid substance it's the essential liquid of our body it is the factor it predominantly resides in the heart but also circulates all throughout the body especially interacting with the kidneys and the urinary tract so this fluid which we call Ojas is the factor for our immunity and our ability to reproduce two factors we cannot live in this world without and it is the factor for our glow,

Our radiance,

Our love it relates with our consciousness it opens our mind and our heart and our emotions so this Ojas is definitely related with the kidneys when we're not putting pressure on the kidneys through toxins,

Fluoridized water,

Chloride water,

Cold water,

Environmental pollutants,

Alcohol,

So many things it definitely helps build and direct its biological energy towards building Ojas rather than having to filter out all the crap.

Urinary tract infections so common women are more prone because of their exposed genitals more exposed and also their shorter urethra so if you're a woman there's a 50% chance you'll end up with this condition of urinary tract infections now not only the reason that women are more common is because of their exposed genitalia and their shorter urethra but women tend to hold their belly in they tend to be tense in that area they suck it in and tense it a bit just so I can look a bit more flat and this is causing so many issues and I countlessly every day see women with this condition which is a causative factor a root factor towards urinary tract infections towards menstrual pain and menstrual imbalances towards constipation because you're tensing that area and it can't release and fully open the channels and relax the sphincters and the muscles and this is one of the correlations with UTIs urinary tract infections because it also correlates with a woman's inability to fully empty their bladder and relax their bladder relax their urethra and we'll go into that about how important it is to fully honor the natural urges as some people call nature's call nature's call is to urinate and defecate but we're talking about the urination here and and when the woman or anyone men as well can have it it's just more common in women from what I've seen is is that tension and that does not allow the system to fully eliminate those wastes so that being said also more than 90% of all UTIs are caused by E.

Coli or Escherichia coli which is a bacteria and it's an ordinary bacteria but when it's high in numbers in places where it shouldn't be like your urinary system UTIs will manifest and it's a lot related with this and and it's not like this E.

Coli is infiltrating you and oh it got into me from someone who I slept with or I went camping and it's not my fault it's the E.

Coli's sure that can be a case but how powerful is your urinary tract system how relaxed is it that it can deal with things that come in how powerful your kidneys to be able to filtrate your liver to be able to deal your immune system your microbiome to be able to deal with this E.

Coli that may enter that is going to determine whether it can live there harmoniously and be like an ordinary bacteria and it can regulate its own numbers because the microbiome that's rich and vagina is one of the places and we've talked on a whole episode with a fertility nutritionist on the vaginal microbiome and in Vital Veda we love enhancing that microbiome of the vagina because I work with a lot of infertility every day it's just extremely common and and one of the things is that poor pH imbalance and microbial diversity in the vagina so we have certain oils like Pradahara Pichu oil and Yoni oils and Yoni Ghee's to enhance that bacterial makeup in the vagina so that if something like excess E.

Coli or some pathogen entered or some even some STD whatever it is it can regulate itself this is the whole science of microbiome is these aren't the bad guys and we have to target this virus or this bacteria and get rid of it it's about how's your terrain how's your environment being able to utilize it so some symptoms or which we call in the Veda Rupa of UTIs of course burning urination frequent urges to urinate lower abdominal pain and aching blood in your urine sometimes but not always and it's perhaps a bit of a cloudy urine now it can be very painful it's very sad and some people experience it frequently and the causes well let's go look at the root we explored some of them the tight belly the weak digestion but other causes can be excess water intake if you're drinking a lot of water I heard I should be drinking three liters of water I'm going to drink a lot well this is going to give pressure on your kidneys it's going to have to deal with more and in Ayurveda this is a condition called Ati Pravritti which is Shrotadushti which is an imbalance of the Shrota of the channel in this case the urinary system of Ati of excess functioning of Pravritti excess activity you have this excess activity of drinking water that's putting that's causing a vitiation to urinary tract and putting pressure on the kidney with the water just drink according to your first and as I said in the beginning sip hot water as my teachers say they see thousands of patients a year and I've been with them in consultations from the serious most serious conditions till the most simple prevention not simple but people wanting to prevent and the number one recommendation they give is sip the hot water more and more it is so powerful don't underestimate it so that being said the hotter the better and no need to drink so much drink according to your first another cause of UTIs is suppressing the urinary urge now this is a huge cause of disease this is one of the major causes of disease according to Ayurveda and it's known as Adharania Vegas which means suppression of the natural urges you suppress a natural urge you have it is going to backlog in your system toxins are going to stay there it's going to cause pressure on your nervous system because the nerve reflexes are being fought against depending on the natural urge you're dealing with whether it's urine,

Defecation,

Sneezing,

Yawning,

Fatigue,

Physical exertion,

Seminal discharge whatever it is there's so many there's 14 main natural urges when those are suppressed that is considered these Vegas these Adharania Vegas are considered a significant cause of disease in Ayurveda and this is so common of chronic suppression particularly the urinary system because we're at work we just want to finish this task before I urinate or I don't want to urinate here it's too dirty I'm going to hold it in like this is a significant cause of disease so this can definitely be a big cause of urinary tract infections amongst many other things another cause is not emptying the bladder fully as I said one of the reasons can be you need to just relax your belly like right now listening to this you just relax your belly put your awareness on your belly simply putting your awareness helps just breathe into your belly just breathe into it a bit more be like a baby's belly like a Buddha's belly let it come out and now the genitals relax your genitals like you need to urinate but not like you need to defecate but not just relax those areas yeah you I'm talking to you I hope you're doing this yes but just relax it stop laughing now and relax and that is what we need to be in that state because it's beyond urinary tract we can talk all about the gut and the nervous system that lives in the gut the enteric nervous system but relax your belly okay this will help empty the bladder fully when you're on the toilet completely relax and empty it and also take your time there's even a technique which my teachers are pretty strong in teaching you particularly if you have your reoccurring urinary tract infections it's definitely advisable to do this and that is after you've finished urinating get up and even 20 seconds sit back down after 20 seconds and you more might come out okay bacteria is a cause as we spoke about improper sugar metabolism is a big one so eating excess sweets sugar and not good diet is going to again cause that atipravrti that excess functioning of the water channels which we call the uddhukavaha shrotas in Ayurveda so we have these channels which is you know the urinary channel is one of them but there's also this channel carrying all water and controlling water metabolism which is rooted in the palate and also the pancreas so when the water metabolism all the fluids in your body particularly this water gets initiated and that can be due to toxins can be due to fear can be due to alcohol hot or excess dry foods can be excess heat can be excess astringent foods astringent is that taste of pluckering it can be because of suppressing the natural urges you can you know this can create thirst dryness of the mouth ringing in the ears even darkness under the eyes even like bouts of like feeling a bit unconscious or fainty dizzy right this is similar to like first which is considered a serious disease and or can be a serious disease in Ayurveda it is a disease itself first and when these channels initiate this can this can definitely intervene with the sugar metabolism and the urinary tract so there's of course many other causes and we need to just relax this whole system and not hold anything right so what are some things to do for your urinary tract infection one other thing I want to mention is another cause can be related with the bacteria is when you wipe and this is to the treatments now when you're wiping if you wipe after you go to the bathroom when you defecate or you pass bowel motion and I say if you wipe because some people just wash water which is a more hygienic way to do wipe from the front to the back so you're not wiping your stool into your vagina for example which is more common as the women will have that opening more vulnerable tissues to get so simply wipe from front to back and use water if you're a woman or a man anyone should be using water more and especially if you're prone to UTIs so how to use water you get a bidet you get a hose you can get bidet hoses you can attach it ask your plumber if you can't do the plumbing or it's very easy to attach you have a beautiful hose you wash yourself it's much more hygienic wash yourself in the shower if you go to the shower after you go to the toilet or what I do because I can't at the apartment I'm living in I cannot attach to my plumbing because it's hidden behind the toilet I just have a one of those pumps that you what used to spray seedlings garden spray like a 1.

5 liter bottle which has a pump in it and you can turn it to have a strong like a spray bottle kind of and it has a strong thing so I just use that for myself and I use filtered water so being more hygienic in that area is definitely wise for everyone and especially for those prone to UTI take that up you can also get like tomato sauce bottles because even for those with urinary tract infections even just after urinating for women and men as well but particularly women again because they have that vulnerable tissue to use like for example tomato sauce bottle or those sauce plastic bottles and fill it up with some filtered water and just wash give yourself a wash after even if just if it's just after urinating and so hygiene very important even like using showers instead of bathing bathing is nice it's relaxing get your goddess on and bathe but you're bathing in your dirt so if you want to have a bath fine but have a shower after okay and especially you're sitting in that bath and yeah or shower before the bath like that so like these are some things I want to now share with you some or one other thing before we go into the foods and the herbs is after sexual intercourse as well for those who are prone to UTIs perhaps emptying your bladder fully going to the toilet is a wise thing now as much as you want to hold your lover and I hope after sexual intercourse you want to be with your lover and spend time with them and if you are prone to the UTIs it is wise and if you feel the urge if you feel the urge remember never never hold the urge even in of course some cases you got it but really you really let that out and attend to that urge and so for example after sexual intercourse you want to stay with your lover and you can just both of you can meditate or some type of channeling of energy of maintaining that beautiful intimate connection while one or two of you go to the bathroom and do that elimination of the urinary system because that is very important and it's not worth the conditions that it can compile to in the future using natural feminine hygiene products so for your menstrual period you want to be using organic material such as organic pads or organic tampons if you want to use tampons although it is not advised to put anything up that yoni channel that channel during menstruation you want everything to just go down and out your menstrual health also plays a role in urinary tract infections not using tampons not using menstrual cups just keeping that that free we did a whole podcast with nidhi pandya on menstrual health and the ancient wisdom of that and how it is so relevant and understanding the health aspects of menstruation so natural you can use menstrual underwear you can use pads make sure they're organic okay so some foods and herbs you can use I'm going to share with you a wonderful uti tea a tea which me and my teacher have made you can make it at home if you're in urinary tract infections and get your pen and paper out because this is a great one if you're feeling it slightly you can use it and that is one teaspoon of coriander seeds half a teaspoon of cumin seeds and one to two teaspoons of barley the grain barley you got to take all those and put it in two cups of water reduce it to two to one cup of water or even one and a half cups so you're making like a decoction you're boiling these three ingredients coriander cumin and barley in water and reducing it you're making a concentrated tea and then you can sip that throughout the day and even two or three times a day when it when it's strong you can have a three to four times a day and even after the symptoms have gone of the uti continue that for another one to three days that drink that uti tea which I call and that that is one thing barley the food is very important it's a very wise food to be eating as a grain for any urinary tract disorder for any kidney disorder for those with diabetes it's great for those with kidney malfunction it's great for those who are prone to uti's it's great to be having regularly as a maintenance as a prevention so that's one some food other foods parsley is fantastic for this uti's horseradish and celery seeds celery seeds is a spice you can get such as arduine seeds a common ayurvedic seed and sugarcane juice is known to be helpful for the urinary tract however you need to be very careful it can release pressure but it can also of course those who have any sugar metabolism disorder or any high blood sugar you just need to be careful it's very strong but always with the sugarcane juice we it's good for pitta people I'll say when it's good for so if you don't have any of those disorders you can have it in the summer you can have it in the morning for breakfast because it puts out your agni it is such a cooling drink it puts out your digestive fire and it's great for the urinary system it's great for the pitta if you don't have any sugar issues so have it plain no ice if it's a little cold add a bit of hot water you want it to be room temperature and yeah no ice no ginger no lemon just just keep it plain once you start adding those things it causes some fermentation which causes indigestion and will irritate your urinary tract so those are some things pranayama which is the way to administer prana of life force to your body which is breathing exercises that is very powerful for urinary tract infections for UTIs it gives this oxygenation of the blood which improves kidney function so it's very wise to do pranayama regularly you know not just meditating not just exercise like breath work also and we talk all about that in our podcast with Nick Heath the breathing diabetic it's a fantastic episode all on breathing and nasal breathing and doing that regularly will definitely help like that alone if someone is prone to regular UTIs that will help and lastly I'm going to just share with you one herb I much prefer to give the herb a program in the consultations because it's specific for you and we have a lot of powerful herbs for the urinary tract my teacher like did his masters in urinary disorders particularly for the male and genitourinary system and I've learned a lot about the urinary system I work with it a lot so the best to always do is specific however I want I need to share with you one herb because it is just so powerful and I want you to have it in case you had a UTI or if you're prone to UTIs again if you're going to take this you can take it regularly but that is for people who are like prone to UTIs who have that discomfort or that blockage in the urinary system however for that it is better to have a consultation so I'm showing it to you now for more those in case you had an acute UTI and that is a herb called neary or on our website it is called knee urinary that's n i urinary and it's a herbal formula based on a classical formula called chandra prabhavati which means the tablet which makes you glow like a moon and it's that formula plus others so it's a fantastic formula that we really enjoy using and it is so powerful and it can very well prevent you from needing antibiotics if that's usually your go to on a UTI or painkillers right this has that effect as well but in a much less in a no damaging way at all where antibiotics really should be life-saving medicine they are reserved for life-saving we shouldn't just take it because we got this cut or this infection in our nose or in our urinary tract like if you're in extreme pain I get it that's what you're gonna do if you that's all you know but there are potential other things so check out this herb and it really is something especially if you're prone to these to have and yeah as I said it's called knee urinary n i urinary and usually take two tablets twice a day or even three times a day if it's strong during the urinary tract infection so reserve those antibiotics as a last resort try these things work on the root issue with all the things we've mentioned and work with a good quality aortic practitioner through consultations we do that you can book on our website with me and I can work with you to make you self-sufficient in creating your own program of health that you enjoy doing and that you're activating your body's own mechanism so that it can heal yourself you have that chemistry and that pharmacy within your physiology and that is the goal and that is very cheap or easy so vitamin d and urinary incontinence is another thing not only incontinence but that can also relate with the infections so in 2010 there was a study of more than 1800 women and they evaluated the potential link between vitamin d deficiency and they were looking at below 30 nanograms per milliliter which is very low and also female pelvic disorders such as urinary incontinence but all pelvic disorders so they concluded the likelihood of urinary incontinence which is another topic of incontinence but it's related with the urinary tract with the strength there with the ability to relax there of course not over relax but that was significantly reduced in women 50 years and older with vitamin d who had higher than 30 nanograms per deciliter so the high vitamin d the lower risk of pelvic floor disorders in women and that was a study vitamin d and pelvic floor disorders in women results from the national health and nutritional examination survey you can find all of those resources on our show notes and every podcast episode by the way has a lot of resources so some actually on that topic some of these podcasts show notes have even more resources than what we speak about we elaborate on topics so vitamin d is so so so so so crucial we've done multiple episodes on light and vitamin d we've check out light the divine healer on a son as the divine healer with dylan smith and laura pool that's me and laura pool and we do it's a fantastic episode one of the favorites and it's just shifting this relationship with the sun vitamin d is like a powerful hormone it's far beyond what you think it is beyond bone health so i just want to touch more on the male system now on prostate we're going to touch on it because we're going to eventually do either live lecture with my teacher on prostate or we'll do a podcast or we'll do a course whatever it is but one in eight men in united states has prostate cancer it's the second most common cancer second to skin cancer and it is so popular in males it's so common and it's more likely to be an area of what we call pita men these men with more fire right and but that doesn't mean if you're not pretty you're not going to get it one really great way to manage your prostate and again this is related with urinary tract it's related with the kidneys he's doing self ab younger every day self oil massage you can learn about how to do that on my website we have a free post to download on self massage and not only is that preventing you from having a low immune system to let the cancer spread and making sure the lymph is draining well and the cancer cells are performing their function of apoptosis and autophagy they're cleaning out like they should be there's so many benefits to have younger to prevent cancer but another thing is you actually you've massaged your genitals and you massage your scrotum when you do that also and that's a technique for early screening that can detect it i've had patients detect their tumors through self i'd be younger so regularly feeling your body getting to know your body is what's going to help prevent and of course you can get screening you can you can get tests with your doctors and i just want to mention there's so many things to talk about male reproductive health but one huge thing is fellas don't keep your phone on your pocket don't keep your laptop in your lap this is going to zap your genitals this is not only going to weaken your erectile strength and your fertility and your whole reproductive libido but it's going to just definitely make you more susceptible to this common cancers that occur down there and then there's prostate calculus stones which is called shukra ashmiri in ayurveda and it can relate with also suppressing semen not properly releasing the semen not properly releasing the urine this semen retention if it's not done right it can cause that we need to be careful we speak about that with dr john grain our podcast episode on sexuality and dynamics of creative sexuality and we speak about semen retention we also speak about the dangers of that vasectomies one of the contraceptive methods when the man is taking the hit getting a cord chopped off you're disrupting this whole circle of intelligence in our reproductive system and it can cause issues like weird malfunctions of cancers and and even urinary tract infections you know so this is an overview of utis predominantly is what i wanted to speak about because of how common it is kidneys play a big role but yeah there's so many things best to work with a practitioner but you can do so many things as well to prevent this and if it is a chronic thing we can deal with it and you know sexuality is definitely related to it we've done an episode as i said with dr john gray we'll be doing another one as well with diane richardson on tantric sex which is a greater use of your sexual energy but but not only the energetic aspect we have to look after our reproductive organs on a physical level as well it's definitely tied into the emotional energetic spiritual but also physical so menstrual health and no suppressing and and fellas also get this like i've talked a lot about women but men also get it and we need to just keep an eye on our waste products as urination defecation and our sweat so there's a lot of things to discuss i hope you enjoyed this episode if you appreciate it please share it trust me there's so many people out there with utis and they'll need to hear it one other thing i forgot to mention is sitz bath for urinary tract infections it's very powerful you can put some turmeric in your sits bath should you just make a bath or or better to do a bucket because you want it more less water quantity if it's a bathtub it's too much and you put just say a spoon of turmeric and four to five crushed shodhana vati tablets we have this herb shodhana vati or even shodhana vati capsules you open the capsule and put the powder if it's a capsule if it's a tablet you crush it put the powder in in the bath even better we want to make it more potent you have the time you have one of you think you deserve the best medicine you boil that shodhana vati tablets with turmeric powder reduce it in a big pot the biggest pot you have and add that to a bucket sit in the bucket open your genitalia and let that go in and soothe that area if you don't have shodhana vati you can use trifola powder which is a common ayurvedic herbs of three fruit but shodhana vati is so much more powerful and will have a much greater effect trifola is only if you don't have it but use the shodhana vati bit of turmeric just be careful with the turmeric doing sits baths because if you plan to conceive very soon you should not be using turmeric in that area because it just will sterilize so but of course that's only in the in the near fertility window so my friend I hope you have learned about your kidneys and your in urinary tract this is such important aspects that generate our energy our vitality if you appreciate this share with a friend leave a review and listen to our other episodes and check us out until next time much much love and may you pee happily freely

Meet your Teacher

Dylan SmithSydney NSW, Australia

4.8 (73)

Recent Reviews

Allie

December 13, 2024

Great information!! . I will make the tea. Big thanks 😊

Hope

July 26, 2024

This is great info thanks! Do these herbs and practices address Interstitial Cystitis as well?

Mark

July 19, 2024

Thanks 🙏.. hoping I can find the website you refer to but .. till now I haven’t heard it mentioned.. I’ll search on your name.. but thanks this has been helpful for me.

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