Episode 170: Tips For Couples To Survive Being Together All The Time Feat. Vanessa Van Edwards

Vanessa is the lead investigator at Science of People. She is the bestselling author of "Captivate: The Science of Succeeding with People". Her book has been translated into 15 different languages and more than 20 million people watch her on YouTube.

Today, Vanessa shares really helpful tips for all of us who are spending way more time with our person and all of these tips can be applied anytime.

Grab a pen and paper and share this episode with a friend. Let's enhance all the love we can.

Transcript

There's no wrong personality trait.

There's no wrong love language.

There's no wrong primary value.

And so that's really important that when you're having these conversations,

And the way that I frame it in the book,

And the way that we talk about it is we love it all.

Like we have to have diversity.

You don't want to have the same personality matrix as your partner.

You don't want that.

And so this is about honoring people's natural strengths,

Honoring people's natural orientations.

It's not about trying to make someone more extroverted.

And that is like my biggest pet peeve.

I teach a lot of social skills classes,

And I start them all by saying,

You do not have to fake being an extrovert to make it.

Like that is not the way this works.

And that's the same in relationships.

You don't have to change your personality to be cared about and honored.

Well hello there lovely.

It's Steph Prejamas,

And welcome back to the Beautifully Changed Podcast,

A place to discuss your journey to love and enhancing the love you already have.

Well happy Tuesday everyone.

I hope that you are staying home,

Staying healthy,

And that you are using this time to get some projects done,

To connect with yourself,

To read that book.

You know,

Do whatever it is that you've been wanting to have some time to do,

And you're taking advantage of that.

Today's podcast guest,

We're going to be talking about the importance of being a person.

You're taking advantage of that.

Today's podcast guest,

We're going to have Vanessa Van Edwards on.

She is from The Science of People,

And she is going to share some incredible tips for couples who are spending all of this time together,

And what you can do to actually help enhance your relationship,

Discover each other more,

And connect on a deeper level.

I very first saw Vanessa on an interview on Women of Impact,

And I was like,

What?

This girl is incredible,

Especially when she shared about how motherhood and she really felt like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs,

You kind of start all over.

And I thought,

Wow,

That's exactly how I felt,

But never would have explained it that way because I'm not that creative,

I guess.

But I was like,

Whoa,

That is such a genius way to explain it.

So ever since then,

I have been a huge fan of Vanessa's and have been following as much as I can of hers that I do find.

I watch all of her interviews and follow her blog and read her emails.

And she is someone who really does like to give a ton of really helpful tips so that you can apply them and enhance your relationships,

Enhance your life while also honoring who you are.

And PS,

I was so excited for this interview.

I'm not even kidding you.

So do you have someone in your life that you totally geek out over?

You just admire them so much,

You're inspired by them.

You love the work that they're doing.

You see so much value in the way that they're impacting people's lives and you just get,

I don't know,

You just are like so inspired by them and appreciate them so much.

Well,

That's Vanessa to me.

So I was so excited to have the honor of getting to interview her today and just spend some time with her.

And she is just such an amazingly nice and genuine and intelligent person.

So I definitely loved this conversation and I know you will as well.

So make sure to share this interview with someone else in your life because it literally has so many impactful and helpful tips in it that it is definitely worth sharing.

Your friends will thank you.

So who is Vanessa Van Edwards?

She is the lead investigator at Science of People.

She's a bestselling author of Captivate,

The Science of Succeeding with People.

So seriously,

Go get yourself a copy because it is so helpful.

And her book has been translated into 15 different languages and more than 20 million people watch her YouTube.

So go get yourself a copy of Captivate,

The Science of Succeeding with People like today.

It's so good.

And Vanessa shares tangible skills to improve interpersonal communication and leadership,

Including her insights on how people work.

She's developed a science-based framework for understanding different personalities to improve our EQ and help us communicate with colleagues,

Clients,

Customers,

Pretty much anyone in our life,

Regardless if they just entered your life or they've been around for a while.

She works with entrepreneurs,

Growing businesses,

And trillion-dollar companies,

And has been featured on CNN,

BBC,

CBS,

Fast Company,

Inc.

,

Entrepreneur Magazine,

USA Today,

The Today Show,

And many more.

So basically any big podcast that you know of,

She's probably been a guest on because she really has such insightful and helpful research-based tips that really are game changers.

So let's dive into the interview.

Get a piece of paper,

My friend.

Like seriously,

I'll wait.

You go get a pen and a paper because you're going to want to write these tips down.

Okay,

Let's dive in now.

Vanessa,

Thank you so much for joining me today on the Beautifully Changed Podcast to really help inspire couples while they're stuck at home right now and just share all of your other wisdom that you've gathered throughout the years of researching people.

Yes.

Okay.

Well,

First of all,

Thanks for having me.

I'm so excited to talk about this topic because it's very front of mind.

The first thing,

It's funny because I feel like we have to do a giant reset.

So if you're listening to this,

Let's do a reset together.

Let's literally hit the button.

So I think I've been hearing a lot of language like stuck at home or constantly together and that can seem a little overwhelming,

Right?

That can seem a little bit intimidating,

But I want to reshape it,

Which is to think about your relationship goals a year ago.

So I'm going to bet that if you're in a healthy relationship,

Maybe a year ago you had a goal that was something like spend more time together or get to know my partner better or deepen my relationship with my partner.

Guess what?

Now is your chance.

You have been gifted the answer to your prayers.

And so I want to kind of reshape this as this time is temporary.

It's very hard.

It's very challenging and it's very confusing.

If it's temporary,

That means that we have an opportunity to see this as a special period of time,

Maybe even a gift where you can leverage or utilize this piece of time to achieve some of your relationship goals.

I love that.

And that's so important to just like,

I love how you said also like kind of reframing it,

Thinking of it as a gift that now we really get the opportunity to dive in,

Maybe look at some areas we want to improve because let's face it,

When you get into a relationship,

You want it to be awesome.

No one starts off a relationship saying,

Hey,

I hope in five years,

This goes down south,

Right?

Like we want it to be fantastic.

Exactly.

So let's start with what are some tips that you have for couples that are working at home or seeing from home or actually are just finding themselves spending so much more time together.

What tips would you have for them?

Yeah.

So the very first thing is a really interesting piece of research that I read many,

Many years ago and is now coming to be very important.

This is researched by Dr.

John Gottman.

So I love Dr.

John Gottman's research.

He's a marriage and family counselor in Seattle and he works with his wife and they just have incredibly robust research and tips on relationships and how they work,

Really how they work,

Not ideally,

But really studying couples for decades and seeing how they work.

And one thing that really provided me a lot of relief is they discovered that most couples fight about the same three things over and over and over again.

And those are different for every couple,

But for your couple,

It tends to be the same three arguments over and over again.

Even if they sound a little different,

It's actually the same three arguments.

So what I would highly recommend is be proactive is the first thing,

Which is what are your three arguments?

You could also call these,

What are your three gremlins?

What are the things that creep into your relationship?

And the problem with these arguments is they're very heavy.

What I mean by that is it's the kind of thing where your partner does some one little thing,

But there's so much history behind it that it immediately snaps you into a giant argument or it triggers this sense of frustration,

Anger,

Overwhelm,

Because it's so heavy.

There's so much there.

So here's my goal is I want you to one,

Sit down with just yourself and do some relationship journaling.

When you think about the last few fights you've had with your partner,

What have they been about?

Was there a theme?

Was there a commonality?

Was there a string?

And this might be going back even a couple of years,

If you can.

And then,

So not,

So first thing about the most recent fights,

Then I want you to think about your biggest fights.

So these are the fights.

Every couple has them.

You are very normal.

If you have them,

The big ones,

The ones where you said something you didn't mean,

Where someone slammed the door,

Someone went to bed angry,

I want to think about those fights.

And again,

Think of the theme.

That's phase one.

It's just you,

Just self-journaling you,

Your reflection time.

Then what I want you to do is I want you to send this podcast to your partner.

Hello,

Partner.

Hello.

If you're wondering why your partner sent you this,

It's because of me.

Yeah,

You have me to blame.

I would love you,

The partner,

To do the same exercise on your own first.

And the reason why I actually don't want you to do this together first is because you might get an argument about your arguments.

And I don't really want that to happen.

So I want you to now do the same exercise for yourself.

And then you're going to do a fun game.

You're going to get a glass of wine.

You're going to cook a really nice dinner,

Or you're going to order in,

And you're going to sit down and you're going to compare your notes.

And remember that this is a game.

So I want you to actually approach it like a game.

In other words,

I want you to think to yourself,

Do we match up on anything?

Do we get the right pairs?

If you approach it that way,

It's a little bit easier to keep it light,

To make sure that you are not accusing each other of anything in that moment,

But you're actually trying to be like,

Wow,

I got that one too.

Oh my gosh.

Okay.

We matched up.

High five.

Every time you match up,

I want you to give a little high five and I want you to dig a little bit deeper.

That exercise is incredibly helpful and it will also create really nice new bonds as well.

I like that.

It's almost like you're finding the common ground and seeing if you,

And it's also helping you discover each other more because if they're like,

Oh no,

My biggest fight was this.

And you're like,

What,

How was that the biggest fight?

I thought that was so chill.

Like I thought that didn't even come on my radar at all.

And so I love that.

That's so good.

And John Gottman is definitely like,

His stuff is beyond fabulous,

His love,

Love and everything.

So that's one thing that I love about you too is like not only do your own research,

But you read everyone else's research and figure out how to apply it.

So,

Okay.

You mentioned something really important there,

Which is I love the way you said that.

It was like,

Wow,

That didn't even come on my radar.

That's the exact right way to approach it.

Remember there is no wrong answer in this exercise.

So if your partner thinks that your biggest fight is about who cleans up dog poop and that wasn't even on your radar,

That does not make their answer wrong.

That's just very interesting.

Right?

Like that's super interesting.

Wow.

Like that wouldn't have even occurred to you,

But that's a huge fight for them.

That's really good to know.

Right?

Like that's a really helpful nugget to know about your relationship.

Yes.

And I also love how you mentioned like the gremlins and some of that you mentioned in one that you talk about in your book captivate is your gremlin can come out as people pleasing.

So is that one of the things that you do to you start getting so worried about conflict that you just start pleasing your partner in that moment?

So what can you add to,

Depending on how your gremlins show up,

How can you adjust that in this time when you're,

Or even focus in on it when you're together with each other right now?

Great.

So fear is a really weird emotion.

Fear is one of the few emotions that disguises itself.

It's as a gremlin dresses up as other things.

And this is really confusing.

So if you're afraid that your partner doesn't love you,

Or you're not going to have enough help,

Or that you're going to lose your job,

Any of those fears,

Our fear doesn't like to come out and say that.

It likes to masquerade as something else.

Drama,

Anger,

Meanness,

Judgment,

People pleasing.

And so what's really important is to talk in this discussion,

Talk about how that happens.

How does it come out?

So if you really want to get infinity gritty of this,

When you're having your argument,

Or when you're thinking about your topics,

I want you to also think about how you have that argument.

So I'll give a really personal example.

So my husband and I are very,

Very aware of our three arguments.

And one of the three arguments is how clean the house should be.

And this is not just chores.

It started as chores,

But as we unpacked it,

We realized,

No,

Actually we just have a different standard for how clean the house should be.

And so it's not who does what.

That's actually not the argument.

It's my husband will look at a room and say,

The room is clean.

And I'll look at a room and say,

The room is a mess.

Okay,

Now we're getting somewhere.

It's not who does the chores.

It's not how the chore is done.

It's a different standard.

And that's a much more helpful place to be.

So what happens is we then talk about how do we have this argument?

And we realized we have this argument.

Usually it's time-based,

Not thing-based.

In other words,

It's actually not that his dirty socks cause the argument.

It's actually not that.

We realized it mostly happens when I am already stressed about something else.

My to-do list is super long.

I look at his socks on the floor and think,

Another thing for me to do?

That's a different argument than who's going to clean up.

And so I want you to break down how it actually happens.

What does your fear do?

My fear is actually that I'm not going to get everything done.

That is actually my fear that as a mom,

As a working mom,

As a partner,

As someone who tries to have somewhat balance and harmony in her life,

That one more thing is going to push me over the edge and I'm not going to get it all done.

And so we've had really in-depth discussions about like,

What does that look like?

Like,

Okay,

Let's say that something doesn't get done.

Then what?

And so we've been able to have really good conversations about how my fear dresses up and maybe that that is an unfounded fear.

So I want you to unpack it as much as you're willing to,

As brave as you're willing to be.

So would it be fair to say then Vanessa,

During this process,

Like your goal isn't to try to come at this to solve it right away.

You're coming at it to understand each other and just see how each other are seeing this,

What,

You know,

What your three things are.

So after you figure out the game,

Right,

You find your common ground and then you figure out how you are arguing.

Then what happens?

Okay.

So then what you're trying to do is just make it less heavy.

You will probably,

After this exercise,

Still have the same three arguments.

That's actually okay,

Right?

Like that,

That's totally okay.

What we're trying to do is remove like the friction and the heaviness from it.

So you should name your arguments.

So I talk about and captivate about naming and taming.

You do this with difficult people too,

By the way.

So the way that we talk about dealing with difficult personalities,

Difficult people is very similar to dealing with those difficult arguments.

You're going to name it.

You're going to literally name that argument.

So if you argue about cleanliness of the house,

You should name it the clean bug or,

Oh,

This is our clean bug again.

I have,

I just posted this on my Instagram actually.

There are people I know who actually give them employee names like Cheryl and they'll like blame it on Cheryl.

And they're like,

What are we going to do about Cheryl?

So name it,

Name it because it allows you to talk about it as not you and me.

In arguments,

You often be like,

You are not clean enough.

How dare you do this?

I need something different.

But if you're like,

Oh,

This is our,

This is that clean bug again,

Just like popping up.

Clean bug is driving me crazy.

And I can say to my husband,

I can say,

Look,

Like my clean bug is like,

Like,

It's like,

Like it just like needs a little bit of help.

And so I just noticed like the bedroom is like a little bit crazy.

So just letting you know.

And that's a very like silly,

Casual way.

And he knows that like,

We're,

We're like getting up there before it gets heavy.

So that's the entire goal is to name it and then allow it to be a,

Not personal to you or your spouse,

But actually it's this other thing that lives outside of your relationship you just have to deal with.

It's like having like a really annoying coworker.

It's just like there,

You got to deal with them,

Kind of work around them.

You know,

You manage them,

You set up boundaries,

Same thing.

I love that.

And it does add this idea of this like playfulness,

Which,

You know,

Really if you're with somebody,

You see them as your friend,

Hopefully they're your best friend.

And doing this method,

Vanessa,

Seems like it helps you maintain that friendship versus putting distance between you.

Yes.

Yes.

And also this is my last step here.

I know this is a lot of steps.

The last step is you have to bring glue back into your relationship.

So if you're going to talk about fighting and talk about arguing,

I want to actually build up a glue that makes it worth fighting for,

Which is deep,

Juicy,

Amazing,

Stimulating,

Titillating conversation starters.

I love that.

You know,

Stephanie,

I love a good question.

I love a good question.

And so I challenge you to set up a shared ritual in your home.

So this is the time to do that.

Breakfast,

Friday lunches,

The first 10 minutes of dinner,

Whatever your shared ritual is over pancakes.

So my house is over pancakes.

I make pancakes every Saturday.

And so we always have a ritual around pancakes.

You might want to do yours more frequently now because we're spending a lot more time together.

I want you to ask one deep,

Amazing,

Juicy,

Stimulating,

Fascinating question during that shared ritual.

So I have a huge list of them,

But I actually am coming out.

I should be out actually right as this episode launches.

My favorite tend to start with.

So I picked my favorite tend to start with that are a little bit more positive,

Like keeping the positive vibes going right now.

And starter get to know you questions of people you already know.

So most conversation starters are for people you don't know.

But actually we need conversation starters for people that you already know,

But you want to know deeper.

So I will send you that the top 10 conversation starters during social distancing.

And by the way,

You can also text these to your friends,

Do a group text.

You can use these with your colleagues at any of the meeting.

You can do video chats with your mom.

You can use these with your family who you're with,

Like your partner who you're with,

But also anyone.

I love that.

And can you explain why deep questions matter?

Why even get excited about these?

Yeah,

They're critical.

They are the easiest,

Cheapest investment you can make in your relationship.

Look,

I love a relationship seminar,

But before you do anything like that,

This is the fastest way to building your connections.

And the reason for that is because one,

When you ask different questions,

You break social scripting.

So here's what happens all the time in a relationship.

How was your day?

Fine.

Busy,

Right?

Hmm.

Gosh,

The news is crazy,

Huh?

Yeah.

What do you want for dinner?

You take out the trash?

Have you finished that project yet?

And you ask those questions every day over and over again.

And that creates a kind of social script.

When we get into ruts in relationships,

I think it actually starts with the questions we ask.

So the entire goal of these questions is I'm just trying to break the social script.

This does a lot of things in our body and our brain.

One produces dopamine.

I think it's the very first question in my favorite 10 that I started with.

And by the way,

Picking a favorite conversation starter is like picking a favorite child.

Luckily,

I only have one child,

So that's easy.

Picking a favorite conversation starter,

It was like agonizing.

So here are my 10.

It took me like five days to pick my 10.

I think the first one is what's something you've always wanted to try?

Why haven't you tried it yet?

And this is a really great one to do regularly.

I do this annually with my partner because the answer changes.

And you get everything from skydiving to learning a new language to trying a food to starting a business.

I mean,

Deep to shallow,

You get the whole gamut.

That produces dopamine.

Like when I asked Stephanie that question just now,

Hopefully Stephanie began to think like,

What have I always wanted to try?

Like what have I been wanting to do?

Do you think that?

Well,

You know,

What's funny is my husband and I do this all the time.

And so what we're constantly doing is doing experience lists where we'll ask each other that.

And then each year we're like,

Okay,

What do we want to add to our experience list?

What do we want to check off?

What do we want to add?

You know,

What was impossible to do this year?

Do we still want to do it or did that change?

And so we are constantly doing that.

But it does make me think like,

Oh,

Is there anything I want to add to that list?

When I heard you ask that I was like,

Ooh,

Is there anything new?

Ooh,

It's the ooh,

That's dopamine.

Yes.

So I'm obsessed.

Gosh,

We love a dopamine hit.

Like dopamine is a chemical.

This is very simplified by the way.

Dopamine is the chemical of pleasure or excitement or reward.

And so when we think about doing something new or exciting,

It kind of relates us.

The 10 questions I picked are geared towards getting two chemicals going.

Either they're a dopamine question.

And by the way,

You don't know this,

But I'm telling you the behind the scenes of these questions.

They're dopamine producing.

So they actually make you feel excited,

Which makes you feel happier,

Which makes us get through some of these times and then answer more genuinely with our partner or they're oxytocin geared.

Oxytocin is the chemical of connection or bonding,

Belonging.

And so they're geared towards making you feel closer to that person.

I believe I have two very vulnerable conversation starters in that list.

One is very positive and one is a little bit more vulnerable.

And the entire goal of that is that when you share something,

It absolutely makes that person feel closer to you from a chemical perspective.

They have proven that when you have oxytocin coursing through your bloodstream,

You are more loyal.

You share more,

You're more open.

You share more things.

You're happier.

You feel a sense of belonging.

And that's what we need more than ever right now.

I love that Vanessa so much.

I especially love how you said,

You know,

It's the cheapest investment you can make before you do anything else.

Start with questions,

Because even though you're married or you're in a long-term committed relationship,

People still want you to know them.

Your person still wants you to invest in them.

So I love that.

Just out of curiosity,

I have this actually sitting right next to me.

Have you ever heard of the ungame?

I think I've seen this before.

What is it?

So it's literally a question game.

So back when I did therapy,

I used to do this with my families and couples all the time.

Kids love it.

So if you're at home,

Please also think as a side note,

Like involve your kids,

Ask them questions as well.

So I'm super excited for yours.

All the questions are kid approved.

I love that.

Yeah.

Kid approved too,

For sure.

I love it.

So this is basically,

It's just like a card game where you just draw a card and it has easier questions that don't feel as vulnerable.

Just more like,

What's your favorite subject at school and why?

And then it goes into deeper ones.

Like what's the meanest thing someone's ever said to you?

You know what I mean?

So yeah,

They have different versions.

And so I've always been a huge fan of these.

So I fell in love with questions years ago as well.

So I love that you're talking about this and that you came up with a list,

Especially for people to use now,

Which goes back to what you were saying at the beginning,

Like use this time as a gift to deepen your relationship.

I love that.

Yeah.

Okay.

So after questions,

Was there like,

Let's talk about doing your partner's matrix because that would also be something that would really,

Really just like game change relationship in a sense,

You know,

Like if like it'll,

Even if your relationship's already good,

It's only going to enhance it.

And if it's not doing so great,

It's going to bring you back on track.

Yeah.

Okay.

So let's think of the 10 questions as the warmup,

Right?

That's like going to get you,

Your juices flowing.

When I was researching my book,

I was very,

In the beginning,

I didn't know how to structure it right.

I was trying to teach social skills from a science-based perspective.

I was trying to give a framework and I finally decided that the way that I should structure it is the way that a relationship happens,

Which is the first five minutes,

The first five hours and the first five days.

And that like made total sense in my head.

And the middle section is actually what I want to talk about here,

Which is the first five hours.

For a lot of couples,

They haven't spent this many,

These many hours together in a long time.

And so they jumped from minutes to days.

So the entire middle section kind of got skipped.

A lot of couples I know,

Especially parents,

They'll do date nights.

Well,

Date nights last two to five hours and then they have their normal week.

Well,

Now we're just on one long date night,

Which means our hours go to days.

And so what I would challenge you to think about is level two here is to solve your partner's matrix.

So the way that I think about people is I've always wanted to have some kind of a formula for people.

And I don't mean that in a,

In a way that's like dismissing people's individuality.

In fact,

I really,

I created the matrix to try to honor people's individuality.

So for every single person in my life,

I have a matrix.

And you'll see in my book,

It's three circles basically within each other and each circle is a different layer.

The outer circle is someone's five personality traits.

And the only personality science has been backed up in research.

So not Enneagram or Disc or Myers-Briggs,

Those actually haven't been able to be replicated.

This is called the big five.

It's someone's openness,

Conscientiousness,

Extraversion,

Agreeableness,

And neuroticism.

That's the first layer.

So see if you can guess your partner's five personality traits.

You're welcome to do this in the book,

But if you don't want to wait for the book,

You also can check it out.

We have a free personality quiz on our website.

I highly recommend go to scienceofpeople.

Com slash personality.

This is all free.

You first take the quiz for yourself.

So it's 44 questions.

They're academic questions that will tell you where you fall in the personality traits.

Take it.

Keep it a secret.

Don't tell your answers yet.

Okay.

Then go through the explanations of each of the traits on that page.

So read them to each other,

Explain to each other.

I want you to guess first.

Really,

Actually the way that I should have said it is you guess yourself first.

So I would actually guess your own traits first,

Then take the quiz and then guess each other's,

And then take the quiz as each other.

So don't share the traits.

I want you to go to that page and then take the quiz as if you are your partner.

That's interesting.

You will have a very robust conversation because you get to see how does your partner see themselves and how do you see your partner and are those aligned?

I love that.

And so this would be more of like more of the game mentality as well,

Right?

So it's not something to bring you further apart.

It's only to bring you together.

So maybe what would be like a starter before you did this?

Like,

Would you want to be in a certain type of mindset or something before you did one of these activities together?

I would really like it if you could spend,

So there's 10 conversation servers on my list.

Spend 10 days doing those,

One a day or do two a day,

One at breakfast and one at dinner.

And then the last day,

The 11th day or the sixth day is personality day.

It's like,

Okay,

We have that whole,

All those questions.

Let's see how we do on this quiz.

I love that.

I love that so much.

This is so good.

I hope you guys are like loving this and have something to do for the time on your own together.

Oh,

You're going to be so busy.

There's so many activities on my website.

You're like,

You like quizzes.

We got every quiz for you.

We got,

I love a quiz.

I love a good quiz.

Yeah.

And I think we all like that because it helps us explore more about ourselves,

Especially since we're all trying to dive a little bit deeper and to get to know our partners more.

That's really cool.

And okay.

So the matrix and you do use this with everyone in your life.

So what if somebody is,

Okay,

So we do the first layer,

Which is the personality,

And then we move to the first layer.

Give that a few days because it's,

It's a lot like it's five traits,

Right?

So five traits,

It's a lot of them.

And so I would like spend a couple of days like,

Like learning that,

Honing it,

Talking about examples.

Then when you're ready,

You can do the next layer.

And this is one that actually maybe you've already done.

It's the appreciation language or the love language,

Depending on how you think of it with the research by Dr.

Gary Chapman.

There's five of those as well.

You pick your love language together.

That's a really wonderful,

Fun exercise.

We also have a free quiz on that if you aren't sure which one.

I think it's sciencefuel.

Com slash love language.

If you search our website for love language,

It'll be there.

And we have a free quiz on it if you want to see it and a kind of explanation of all five of them.

It's also in the book,

Of course.

And the last one,

And this is the research that I found and it really blew my mind.

It's why it's the last layer of the matrix.

It's like the heart of the matrix and I save it for last.

It's research by Foa and his colleagues that found that it's called resource theory,

That each human has a certain resource.

We all have these resources,

Five,

I think there's six of them actually.

We have different layers of six of these resources and we all crave one the most.

And typically,

Not to get too deep,

We typically crave the resource that we didn't get enough in our childhood.

And when I read this study,

I can't even tell you,

I got chills.

I read it and I was like,

Oh my gosh.

It explains so much about my childhood and what I crave in my relationships.

And the nice thing about this is it's not just your romantic relationships.

It's also your friendships.

It's sometimes your work relationships.

By the way,

If you're listening to this and you're not in a romantic relationship,

Take every single thing that we've said and apply it to your best friend,

Apply it to your mom,

Apply it to a kid.

It doesn't have to be romantic.

And so we want these resources from the people that we are in our life.

And so it's very,

Very helpful to figure out what is the number one primary value that your partner wants and how can you give it to them?

I love that.

And values are so important.

So can you give a couple of examples of what different values would be?

Yeah,

Sure.

I think this quiz is only in the book just because it's so advanced.

I wanted to make sure that people really honored the depth of the science.

So an example is I was working with a colleague of mine a couple of years ago now and she was doing great work.

And so I kept trying to reward her.

And how do we think about rewarding employees?

Bonus.

Bonus.

Worked a bunch of stuff in our budget,

Gave her a bonus.

She was like,

Thank you.

And you're like,

What?

Like what?

So I was like,

Okay,

Okay.

I'm sure it was just that.

And then I got a gift certificate at her favorite restaurant for her birthday.

Thank you.

I was like,

What is happening here?

And then I read this research and I was like,

Oh,

So money is not her main resource.

She is not doing this job.

Yes,

She wants a paycheck,

But that is not nearly as important as her primary value is status.

So for her,

She was waiting and waiting and waiting for a title bump.

And she was really upset that she wasn't getting one.

She really,

Really wanted more recognition on the team that when she did something,

She wanted that recognition publicly,

Not just in one-to-one emails,

Not just a one-to-one phone calls,

But it was important to her that on the entire team,

I said that she had completed something or done something.

And so that was a really good example for me of when I assumed the money value,

But actually status was much more important.

So that's where this value really helps with miscommunications.

How would that be if you were in a relationship with somebody like,

Whether it's your best friend or your parent or like your partner and status was a value that was important to them?

How would you honor that in a relationship?

Career goals.

So if you have someone in a relationship who is all about accumulating money for security,

For safety,

Making sure that they have their money lined up,

But you have someone else in a relationship who takes jobs,

Maybe they're starting a website,

They want to take jobs for the status,

They're misaligned.

They're going to fight about money all the time because the money person is going to say,

Why would you take that client for free?

And the status person says,

It's a VIP.

I would be honored to work with them for free.

So you have these miscommunications about goal alignment,

About career alignment,

About career choices,

About savings,

Right?

Like money and goods are two different value languages.

So if you have someone in a relationship who's money and someone who's goods,

The money person is going to want to save as much as possible.

Their worth is very much tied to the number in their bank account.

Whereas a goods person doesn't need as much savings,

Their value is tied towards being able to have comfort items that make them feel like they're getting what they need.

Two totally different ways of spending.

Oh my gosh,

That is so good and so helpful Vanessa.

Like,

Oh my gosh,

That itself,

Like how many people do you know who fight over money?

Right?

Oh my gosh.

It's one of the biggest things.

And when you just break it down to that,

It just really gives relief and it's like,

Oh,

There's at least a solution to take away the friction,

Not to necessarily solve it a hundred percent,

But at least to make room to grow and accept.

I love that.

And I also really appreciate how you shared the story of your person,

Your team that you didn't take it personal and you found a solution and you were flexible and you went to a tool to help you.

And it sounds like you were eventually able to figure out through her matrix,

What was her language and then you were able to meet it.

Yes,

Exactly.

And that's,

You know,

The kind of underlying thing that we're not saying here is there's no wrong,

Right?

Like there's no wrong personality trait.

There's no wrong love language.

There's no wrong primary value.

And so that's really important that when you're having these conversations and the way that I frame it in the book and the way that we talk about it is we love it all.

Like we have to have diversity.

You don't want to have the same personality matrix as your partner.

You don't want that.

And so this is about honoring people's natural strengths,

Honoring people's natural orientations.

It's not about trying to make someone more extroverted.

And that is like my biggest pet peeve.

I teach a lot of social skills classes and I start them all by saying,

You do not have to fake being an extrovert to make it.

Like that is just not the way this works.

And that's the same in relationships.

You don't have to change your personality to be cared about and honored.

I love that.

So Vanessa,

Where can people find you and do you have any exciting projects or events coming up that you would like to share with us?

Sure.

So everything is at scienceofpeople.

Com.

Our entire goal with the website is to be as exceptionally helpful as possible.

My goal is that you are just sucked into every article because you're like,

That one's helpful.

That one's helpful.

So there's a ton of free resources on there,

Quizzes and guides.

Also Captivate is available wherever books are sold.

I also read the audible.

If you like audio books,

I heard that I'm fun to cook to and I'm fun to run to,

But I've been told.

And our biggest next project is to host more live webinars as more and more of us are working remotely around the world.

We have,

We really have to work together to battle loneliness.

We really have to work at finding our community.

And so I've made a pledge to host more free live webinars for people on topics that are really relevant to them right now.

And so we're going to be announcing on our newsletter,

A bunch of really cool webinars coming up.

I love that.

And okay,

Last question.

Do you still have anti-networking meetups in different cities?

We would like to.

We would like to.

We actually had our first live event planned with anti-awkward networking.

It was like our first big one in Austin at the end of May,

But we postponed it waiting for the world to heal.

So the answer is yes,

Soon we will.

So keep posted on our website for our next anti-awkward event because we're going to have it.

I just know it.

We just have to heal a little bit first.

I love that.

Well,

Vanessa,

Thank you so much for your time.

This was amazing.

So helpful.

I loved it so much.

Thank you.

Oh my gosh.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks everyone for listening and share this with your partner.

Share this with your best friend.

Share this with your colleagues who need a little bit of extra support right now,

And then you can do these exercises together.

So there we have it guys.

That was awesome.

I hope you wrote down all those tips.

And just to summarize,

You're wanting to grab a notebook,

Journal about your three arguments.

What are the themes of your three biggest fights?

Compare your notes together.

Think of it as a game.

Explore how you have the argument.

Make it less heavy.

Remove the friction.

Name it.

Tame it.

And then bring glue back in by asking deep questions that really enhance your connection and your bond together.

And just get to know each other again and continue to get to know each other and explore each other's worlds in and outside of your relationship.

And then discover each other's matrix and let that be kind of your compass through your relationship.

Thank you so much for spending some of your time with me today and make sure to share this episode with someone and leave a review.

And remember,

You're worthy of incredible love.