22. Challenging Relationships: How To Transform Them

In this episode of Spiritually Hungry, Monica and Michael examine relationships and their immense ability to assist us in growing into the person we are meant to be – for even a challenging relationship is a mirror that shines a light on how to be true to ourselves and grow. Listen as they lay the groundwork for building a great relationship, romantic or otherwise, through such spiritual tools as tempering our expectations, accepting responsibility for our role, and more.

Transcript

Every relationship shines a light for us to see ourselves more closely.

And I think oftentimes people start a relationship without knowing those things about themselves or even knowing what they want.

And before they know it,

They're in a situation like,

How did I get here?

So then they often blame it about the person that they're in the relationship with.

This is a life-changing wisdom if you accept it.

That there is only me and the light of the Creator,

Which means everything else that is in my life is meant to help me grow,

Change,

And become a better person.

The first step is really to connect to that goodness and you recognize it,

Know that you're lovable,

Know that you're destined for greatness simply because you exist,

And then from that space then you're able to see everything as a gift.

But it's such an important fundamental first step.

The way to fix challenging relationships,

The way to clear ourselves of scars and anger and disappointment is to go inside.

Welcome to the Spiritually Hungry Podcast,

Episode 22.

So you guys asked for it by unanimous demand.

You want to hear about relationships and we are excited to talk about it.

I think it's interesting because we got this question quite a bit to talk about this topic,

Which is,

What can you learn from bad relationships?

So I guess I have a problem just with the question.

And how to deal with challenging relationships as well.

Yeah,

But it was specifically bad relationships.

I think it's an interesting question because often the way things are asked,

It shows you where your thoughts are in it about relationships.

So I don't think that there are any bad relationships.

Of course,

There are unsuccessful ones.

There might be difficult ones.

There might even be abusive ones.

However,

I think that if you label it as bad,

Then it stops you from learning from it,

From growing from it,

And seeing it as a gift.

So I think that the first thing,

And then I want to hear what you have to say,

Of course,

I think the first thing is that every relationship shines a light for us to see ourselves more closely.

Take a greater look at how giving am I in relationships.

Where is my kindness?

Do I know who I am?

Am I authentic?

Do I know my voice?

Do I stand up for myself?

Do I know what I want?

And I think oftentimes people start a relationship without knowing those things about themselves or even knowing what they want.

And before they know it,

They're in a situation like,

How did I get here?

So then they often blame it about the person that they're in the relationship with.

Yeah,

Interesting.

So we were kind of reticent to take on this topic because we like to talk about the happier.

.

.

Happy,

Good relationship.

.

.

.

The happier sides of relationships.

But if you think about it,

The reality is you and I,

Every single one of our listeners has,

Had challenging relationships,

Often with family members,

People at work,

Everybody has challenging relationships.

But I want to say one thing though.

I think that the understanding or the expectation or the hope is that when it comes to romantic relationships,

It's going to be like we see in the movies.

You know,

Bridget Jones.

I didn't know you were seeing the movies.

Well,

No,

The part that.

.

.

Because in the movies for the most part,

Unless you're watching a drama,

If you're watching a romantic comedy,

You're seeing how they fell in love.

And it's that euphoric stage that they're in where their endorphins are going,

Their hormones,

You know,

What is the hormone that produces stress,

But also is responsible for that feeling that we have,

It will come to me,

The feelings of butterflies in our stomach.

So that's the part of the movie that you see.

And people naively think that that is what the relationship needs to look like forever,

Or somehow it's not a good relationship.

Yes.

And it's interesting,

We'll touch upon really both types of relationships.

There's the romantic relationships and hopefully everything we speak about also will apply to that.

But also it's not- It's cortisol.

That's the hormone I was- As we're here in the United States,

We'll be celebrating Thanksgiving next week.

Well,

This year a little bit different than others.

Probably less people will be with their families.

People will be with their families.

And often that brings up all kinds of history and challenging relationships.

And so we'll talk about relationships.

Some of it will apply to romantic relationships.

Some of it will apply to familial relationships.

Some of it will apply to our friendships and other relationships.

But the first thought,

The first spiritual thought that I have as it relates to relationships,

And specifically to either challenging relationships or relationships when they are in a challenging state,

Is a teaching from the founder of the Kabbalah Center,

The great Kabbalahist,

Rabbi Hud Aschlag.

And he said something that for me is one of my driving teachings in life.

And especially,

Especially when challenges come up with people external,

I think about this.

And he says the following statement,

Which I want to elaborate on because it's really important,

I believe,

For every single one of us to live with this teaching.

And he says that you have to know that there is only you and the light of the creator.

Nothing else exists.

There's just you and the light of the creator.

So you're going to go deep,

Fast.

Yes.

Yes.

Because I think,

And again,

And hopefully you'll help me,

But really unpack this idea because I don't think one can be receiving from all the relationships that we have in our lives what we're meant to receive from them unless we are living with this thought,

With this consciousness.

But let's explain a little bit what that means.

I'm sitting here right now,

Those of us who are watching on Facebook or YouTube or Instagram,

You see that Monica and I are sitting across from each other.

There's a window behind us.

There's a room around us.

There's trees over there and there's people in the room.

And as we go throughout our day,

We interact with many,

Many people,

Things,

Places.

The spiritual view is that there's a perfect system for me.

And my perfect system is everything that comes into my life,

Everything that exits from my life,

Everything that occurs in my day,

Everything that surrounds me is for one purpose,

Only one purpose,

Ultimately for my benefit.

What does that mean?

Again,

To become the better person that I'm meant to be all the time,

To elevate,

To grow,

To change,

There are going to have to be people that enter into my life that bring challenges to me because by overcoming them I grow and so on and so forth.

But that understanding that I am living within a perfect matrix,

Within a perfect world that is designed perfectly just for me.

So my interaction with you is really in some way meant to elevate me.

My interaction with this person who pushes my buttons,

The only reason I am interacting now it doesn't,

By the way,

Negate the goodness or badness of that person's behavior.

This person might in his or her assessment on themselves,

They might say,

Oh my goodness,

I really treated Michael badly today.

But that has nothing to do with my assessment of that interaction and my understanding of what is happening in my life.

Yes.

I want to make sure that's clear because I know this is a deep understanding.

Because you're trying to take people though from this place of this bad thing happened to me,

This bad relationship and all the things that come along with it.

I'm deserving,

Other people have better relationships,

I'm never lucky in love and it should be this perfect thing that I have now visualized in my mind too no matter who you encounter.

And by the way,

Obviously we have the same opinion but who you come across and what you encounter,

It's all set up for your greatest good to help you get the most out of life.

So we really need to walk people from that first picture I just made for you to this idea of,

And by the way,

Right before we recorded this,

Right,

I was driving,

This guy cut me off.

I did honk but not angrily.

And then he started cursing me out and then when we stopped at light,

He continued whatever.

In that moment though,

Because it was so extreme,

I was able to just watch and be like,

Okay,

That's fine.

I need to see this as a reminder of never to become that.

And I wasn't judging him but for me it was like really,

Like this is not,

I'm watching a movie because I wasn't,

It didn't penetrate anything with any,

Right?

So of course we can get there but I really do want to bring this idea that we're talking about to romantic relationships because if you look at somebody who,

And we know somebody very close to me who's just been in abusive relationship,

Right?

And it didn't start that way but at the end of this two year relationship,

That's how it ended.

So how do you,

So what advice do you tell that person then?

Because if they've been in a few failed relationships,

A failed marriage and then another relationship that ended up being abusive,

So how do you get them to that consciousness?

Well again,

So I mean that's a lot,

Right?

But obviously none of this is meant to say that if one finds themselves in an abusive relationship they remain there.

Of course not.

And obviously when we talk about abuse,

There's a range of that and there's some of them that are criminal and one should run to the police but I'm talking about the other 99% of interactions and you,

A person might even see them as abusive.

Again I've met many people in this teaching and assisting people to develop that have a lot of negative,

This is,

I think I might have shared this,

I remember I met somebody who was a very,

Very successful business person,

Very successful in life,

He had a family.

When I was talking to him about this,

He was in his 70s already,

He has since passed and the focus of his conversation was the fact that his father,

Now so right we're going back 50,

60 years ago,

Never believed in him and spoke badly to him,

Abused him in some way,

Right?

It wasn't terrible abuse,

Right,

To be clear but it was in his emotional abuse and verbal abuse and I remember as I'm sitting there many thoughts came to mind.

One of this is wow and I'm sure many of our listeners in one degree or another have an element of this that our parents have so much influence,

Not just from the years of zero to 1821 but really for the rest of our lives and this was one example of many we encountered but my advice always is if you have this view which is why was I born to these parents?

Again you have to have a belief in the perfect system of course and that takes spiritual work and I'm going to talk about that a little bit but this is my view and it certainly helps me navigate the challenging relationships.

Why were you born to these parents?

So the spiritual view is because my soul and each one of us is different needed to go through that process,

Needed to have a father who didn't believe in me.

Why?

Maybe so I can develop my own belief in myself and so on and so forth.

This by the way the one thing I was a little bit reticent about Sherry because this is not a formula like our listeners can hear this say okay I heard it now my life is better.

This actually leads to great work.

Great work to really look inside and really ascertain what are my scars from the past or even maybe my challenges from the present.

How am I meant to grow from there?

What am I meant to learn?

How am I meant to change?

But it all begins and I'll keep stressing this because this is a life-changing wisdom if you accept it.

That there is only me and the light of the Creator which means everything else that is in my life is meant to help me grow,

Change,

And become a better person.

I think a way to help people get there and certainly this is what I applied when I started studying Kabbalah when I was 17 was that when you talk about the Creator for people who don't have that intimate relationship yet with the Creator it feels almost removed.

Maybe a little bit foreign something that you look up to to pray something above something untangible.

But if you look at it this way that our spirit,

Our soul,

Our source,

Our energy source comes from the Creator and that goodness within us is the same energy as the Creator then the first place to really start before you can cleave in that way is to awaken that part of you through action,

Through being day to day.

When you awaken that,

When you connect to your soul,

To the goodness of your soul and you act in accordance to that then you're able to feel,

Connect,

Tap into something higher.

Then when you're in that space then anything that happens to you happens through you because now you're able to actually be more elevated as well.

You're able to take a higher level perspective.

That's always helped me.

That's interesting.

I mean,

So now we're veering a little bit off topic too but I think it is a very important understanding.

And that is when I say Creator I don't mean the guy in the sky,

Right?

We believe that there is,

Not just we,

Science believes that there is energy around us.

An energy force.

And like you said,

Most of us who are more in touch with our soul,

Our spirit,

Our internal energy,

Goodness,

Light,

We know that there is something beyond the flesh,

Beyond the body.

And then the next question would be,

Well,

Where does that come from?

Well obviously it's probably coming from a source greater than what is tangible.

And I do believe a lot of our listeners are either there or in the process of getting anybody to think,

What you said is really a beautiful and important way to awaken that,

Right?

Like you said,

Get in touch with the goodness or the soul,

The spirit that you have within you.

And ask yourself the question,

Or maybe more importantly,

Say to yourself,

Well,

I do believe in my goodness,

Power,

Soul.

That's my point.

Not everybody believes in it.

So that's why when they find themselves in difficult relationships,

Situations,

Challenges,

Then they're not able to make this connection.

And that's why I wanted to break it down.

So the first step is really to connect to that goodness and you recognize it.

Know that you're lovable.

Know that you are destined for greatness simply because you exist.

And then from that space,

Then you're able to see everything as a gift.

But it's such an important fundamental first step.

And it's interesting because I had a conversation this week with somebody who I actually hadn't met before.

And it was an interesting conversation.

We were talking about many different things.

And we got on the topic of spirituality.

And she said,

Well,

I don't believe in that word.

And my ears perked up because I certainly do very much believe in that world.

And I was curious.

I thought maybe we just have different definitions of it.

So her understanding is that we all come from spirit and therefore naturally everything that we do is good,

Is for our greatest good.

And that's why you don't need to study something like spirituality because naturally you are spirit.

But my point was that very often people make choices and do things in life that take them very far away from their spirit.

And our responsibility,

If we want to have the life we all desire,

Is to reawaken that aspect of ourselves.

Right?

So,

And again,

I'm bringing this up because I think that is in line with what we're saying,

To connect to that energy force is to really awaken that within you.

And that means that you act with the better parts of yourself in every situation,

Even in difficult relationships.

Right.

And what I'm adding is that,

Is that the view,

As you hopefully take the time to ask this question,

Why am I encountering this person in my life?

Why did my parents behave in this way?

Where my father speak to me in that way?

Why did my mother not believe?

Whatever those.

.

.

The narrative is.

The narrative,

Again,

By the way,

That's a whole,

It might not be true,

But let's assume it is true.

Why?

Well,

Because if it's a story,

If the same story keeps happening,

Right?

It was your mother and your father,

Then it was your first boyfriend or girlfriend,

And then it was your teacher,

Then that becomes,

Right?

Because you're not actually looking to say,

Okay,

What's the opportunity here?

And then we can bring in Tikkun in that idea too,

Right?

Because if you keep running away from a situation that keeps coming back up for you over and over again,

Then I think it would behoove you to stop and say,

Okay,

Why does this keep.

.

.

Why does this energy,

Why does this situation keep following me around?

Is there something I'm supposed to be learning from this?

Absolutely.

And I think I don't want to quickly pass over something very fundamental that you just said,

Which is a spiritual law that is that unless you learn the lessons from those relationships that you're meant to learn,

It will keep happening in that relationship and then the next one and then the next one and the one after that.

And if for no other reason,

It's important to take the time to delve deeply into yourself and into the reasons for those experiences,

Informative in other relationships,

It's just because you don't want to have it keep happening.

And I think what you said again,

Also another,

The other part of that,

Which is so important is ask yourself the question,

What are the disappointments that I keep having?

What are the upsets that I keep having in my relationships?

And then it must mean if you're logical about it,

That it can be all of them,

Right?

I remember one of my favorite jokes,

This guy is on a phone with his wife and he's driving down the highway and his wife said,

Where are you?

We know a highway and he tells you,

I'm on the I-95.

He says,

His wife tells him,

Be careful,

There's a man driving the wrong way.

And the guy says,

Not one man,

They're all driving the wrong way.

And the point is obviously he was the one driving the wrong way on the highway.

I don't think I heard that one before.

Oh really?

Thank you.

That wasn't a real laugh,

But okay.

Well,

It was a supportive laugh.

Yes,

Thank you.

Thank you.

Because it's less of a joke,

More of a lesson.

Right.

Because the point is this,

Could it be possible that it wasn't your father,

Your mother,

Your first boyfriend,

Your second boyfriend,

Your first husband,

Your first child who are all doing the same thing to you and they're all wrong?

Maybe there's actually something that you need to grow from and to change.

Not an easy conversation to have with yourself,

But necessary.

And I think that's really the focus.

If we talk about the benefit of challenging relationships,

Why is it coming to my life?

I need to get better.

And this is,

By the way,

This is not a negative assessment of any one of us.

I need to become better.

You need to become better.

And one of the most powerful,

Beautiful ways that this can happen is the people we love and some of them that we don't come into our lives to point and say.

Well,

It's interesting.

Just right before we recorded this,

I said to you,

Two things happened this week,

One day and then the next.

So it wasn't just all in one day.

And again,

I trained myself enough that if something's coming up a few times in a week or even at once,

I'm going to pay attention.

And I said to you,

I know this isn't real.

It's an old movie.

It's a familiar thing.

It's like a residue of something I've really worked on.

But clearly there's residue there.

So even when you work on these areas.

.

.

You couldn't get meaning to correction what you came to correct.

I'm not sure all of our listeners.

Right.

Yeah.

You're still going to get opportunities and slowly,

Slowly,

Slowly it chips away and eventually it might be gone.

But I mean,

It makes me laugh a little bit when it comes up again.

Right?

You think you've come so far.

And to give you a compliment,

I think what you do,

Which is really important,

Is that you talk about it.

You talk about it with me often,

Talk about it within yourself.

There's no chance of that going away without that either internal dialogue or with somebody you trust and love.

Well,

First awareness.

And then my point of talking about it to myself and then to you very often is that this is not really.

.

.

I'm not taking this seriously.

I'm going to take this that I need to change it,

But I'm not going to take this thing that happens seriously because I'm so aware that it's just not really real.

It's just completely set up for me to get over it completely.

And that's what I love,

Right?

I feel really empowered by that process.

Absolutely.

And now,

Again,

A little bit of a tangent,

But I think it is important for our listeners.

So this past week I was in London with friends of ours who are very much involved in spiritual study,

Pursued becoming better.

And they as well have these conversations that we have,

Which we are really asking all of our listeners to really focus on.

And as an aside,

Besides the fact that unless you're doing this.

.

.

By the way,

I think that's one of the most comforting and powerful thing about a relationship.

If I think about it,

It's that aspect of it,

Right?

To be able to talk about everything,

But more importantly,

To talk about the things that most people try to hide about themselves.

Right.

And that was exactly my point.

Oh,

Sorry about your moment.

Yes,

You did.

One of the reasons why I enjoy our relationship so much,

And I was actually pointing this out to this other couple,

Which I was speaking to this past week,

Is that so much of their conversation.

.

.

Which I wonder,

And again,

Sometimes we have views into other couples' relationships.

And one of the most beautiful things about a spiritual relationship is that you are both desiring to become better and to grow,

And the conversations you have are these type of conversations.

This happened to me and how do I grow from it and so on.

I think it makes the relationship so much more interesting.

And fun,

By the way.

Fun,

And more importantly,

Growing.

But I think it's such an important point.

For those of our listeners who are in a relationship,

I strongly,

Strongly recommend to develop this conversation.

For those who are not in a relationship,

I strongly recommend developing this internal dialogue with yourself and maybe close friends.

But for relationships,

It's a very beautiful and deep way to grow your relationship.

And the thing is for people to get there,

Just to go back to the first idea,

Is really these relationships,

Again,

They're mirrors.

So I think for a lot of people,

It shines a strong light on how did they really first begin to become true to themselves?

Because that you have to do.

And then,

By the way,

If I wasn't true to me,

I could never be true to you.

It just would be impossible.

How could I admit things to you that I wouldn't first admit or know about myself?

So I think that there are five questions that are really important for each person to ask themselves.

You like stone.

Well,

I think you kind of know yourself.

We've gone through this.

When we were first together,

You were not,

I don't think,

Very emotionally intelligent with yourself.

And therefore,

I- It's funny.

Today,

Our second oldest son,

Josh,

Asked me,

He calls me Abba,

Father in Hebrew.

He says,

Abba,

Are you happy all the time?

Oh,

Because you were singing up the storm this morning.

And I hadn't worked out yet.

And I was like,

Oh,

My head's a little bit too much.

First I appreciated,

I was like,

Oh,

God,

I love that about him.

I'm so not that person.

But it's contagious.

I think you've made me a happier person through our marriage just because it's your nature.

So I've elevated my baseline of happiness just through you,

Which is,

Well,

Thank you.

Awesome.

But it was a little bit too much to support him for my workout.

I can't promise I'm going to tap that down.

So that's probably when he asked you,

Right?

He asked me this afternoon.

And they were singing like Zippity Doodah or something.

And I said,

Yes,

I try.

I mean,

Yeah.

So I'm not sure why.

I don't think you had to try that much.

You were genuinely happy about making a salad.

Yes.

OK,

So these are the five questions.

Do you know what you want?

Two,

Can you make yourself happy,

Which I think is a really important question and necessary thing to be able to do.

Three,

Do you know what excites you?

Four,

What do you dread?

And five,

When you make decisions,

What are they based on?

Is it based on outside information,

Comfort,

Deep self-awareness,

Or what takes the least amount of effort?

And I think that having- I hope we didn't go over them too quickly.

I hope our listeners took notes and- Well,

There's rewind,

Right?

I can read them again if you want.

But I do think that if you can't answer those questions,

I would ask them of myself every single day until I could.

And also make sure you're answering them honestly.

Because if you know yourself so intimately in that way,

Then that will inform every other relationship you have or will have.

And I think what you're saying is really important,

Which is that often the reason other people upset us,

Challenge us,

Disappoint us is because we're not doing for ourselves what we're hoping they'll do for us.

So the expectation you have going into relationship is impossible.

Actually,

There's a book called The Tools,

Which is a very interesting book.

And they say that is that,

And I like this phrase,

I hope I get it right.

They said you have to always make sure that your life is greater than your relationship.

Right?

I love that.

Because what happens too often,

And this could be by the way between daughter and mother,

Between husband and wife,

Between friends where there is such an expectation and need that they fill my life.

That they complete you.

It's unfair.

They complete you.

They make you- They do everything.

Right.

And if you ever,

And to the degree that you have either an expectation or desire or need for that,

Those relationships can- Well,

That creates codependency.

At the end,

You're never fulfilled because nobody can offer all of those things to you.

It's impossible and it's also just not fair.

Which is a really interesting idea,

Which is that you might be either with your father,

Mother,

Brother,

Sister,

Wife,

Husband,

Child.

There can be the groundwork for an amazing relationship,

But because you put too much weight on what you expect them to do for you,

That you can't let the true essence of that relationship become what it's meant to become,

Which can be an amazing relationship.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

I think there's another thing and I think that I love bringing in psychology also.

I think this is really helpful for people to check themselves.

Let's say you have a confrontation,

You have an issue in any relationship,

But let's say romantic,

And now you've broken up and it's all of their fault.

It's all about them.

By the way,

It's not over doing it.

It's never all their fault.

Ever.

But there's something called hindsight bias.

I think I've spoken about it before,

But there's three ways that we do this.

One is memory,

Desertion,

Which is I said it would happen.

When the relationship ends,

I said it would happen.

I always knew it was going to happen.

So,

Zero responsibility.

You don't have to go back and think about it.

What didn't work?

When did it fall apart?

What was my responsibility in it?

The second is inevitability,

Meaning it had to happen.

The last is foreseeability.

I knew it would happen.

When a relationship ends,

If you're able to actually go back and unpack it and say,

Okay,

Was it really always that great or is that I'm just remembering that one good trip we had when we went to Florida together.

Were there other signs along the way?

How did I act in a relationship?

If you go back to those five questions I brought up,

What part of you yourself did you allow to really be revealed and be seen?

You'll be able to walk away from that relationship and say,

Okay,

Well,

I've learned invaluable things from that experience about myself,

About what I desire,

About who I want to share with my life with and I'm going to take that into the next relationship.

That's interesting.

Unfortunately,

We have seen relationships that end either in divorce or separation and very often both sides or at least one is 100% sure that they were married to the devil and they did nothing wrong.

They were an angel.

And unfortunately,

What happens then is that they don't learn or grow and therefore the next relationship is similar or has its own pitfalls unless you're growing.

Again,

And this is certainly in romantic relationships,

But in every relationship,

It's always going to keep repeating.

It's always going to have to come back into you so that you can change and grow from it finally.

You know what's interesting too is that I hear this explanation a lot.

They'll say,

You know,

I don't know what happened,

That person or they had mental issues I wasn't aware about,

But the flaw in that is,

Again,

Besides everything we said is that- Again,

To the exclusion of the 1% in the person who- Yes,

But I heard this one a lot is that what it creates is a distrust in yourself to make good choices.

So then in the next time,

Oh,

I don't know,

I'm afraid or I don't want to commit or I never want to get married again because of that one experience when were you really fooled?

Is that person all bad?

Are you telling a new story now?

Is it accurate?

So I think that for so many reasons,

It's important to really go back and look at every single step of the way and be honest with yourself.

So the truth,

Again,

Just to underscore something we've said a few times is that the way to fix challenging relationships,

The way to clear ourselves of scars and anger and disappointment is to go inside,

To really take the time.

And this is not,

Like I said before,

This is not something you hear a podcast,

You're inspired,

Done.

This is literally the one thing we can really ask of our listeners is to really,

Especially on the important relationships you have in your life,

Parents,

Siblings,

Children,

Spouses,

Hopefully one spouse,

And really look inside.

When those relationships didn't go well,

What were either my- Again,

It doesn't mean that I did something wrong.

Let's say in the case that I spoke about before,

We have a child whose father never loved or he experienced never having been loved.

It's possible.

But that still doesn't mean that there wasn't something I was supposed to learn from that.

I was supposed to grow from that.

And unless you're doing that work,

Serious work,

Then you will remain with scars,

You will remain with pain,

You will remain with anger,

And worse,

You won't grow into the person you're meant to be.

It's interesting because when you identify,

Again,

That area,

Right,

And you start to recognize the theme that keeps coming up with different people,

I know for me now when I recognize it,

Right,

I've identified I think what- I mean,

We have many different areas,

But what an area of correction is for me,

I am able to say I'm actually more cautious.

Like I'll look at the situation and I'll say,

Okay,

Is it really about me?

Is it really about them?

Is it just their style of communication?

I'm able to then remove myself a little bit and kind of watch it and say,

Okay,

What's really going on here?

Because now it's something that I've been paying attention to for years and years and years.

And it's really like you can't actually blame people and you can't ever be a victim in that way and you can't even get too angry because it's just information.

It's information you need,

Right?

It's information you want to work with and then you can decide what to do with it.

So it's really freeing and very empowering at the end of the day.

Absolutely.

I think we should get to the first question.

Yeah,

We have- We have a ton of questions.

I think we're leading it- And by the way,

Just our listeners know,

Please keep sending in your questions because we do build the podcasts around your questions even if we don't actually get to read all of them.

But let's- Well,

We'll do many more on relationships,

But I'm going to just read one question.

If we have time for a second one,

Tell me.

I will not have time for a second.

Okay.

So the question is,

What does it mean and how do I honor thy father and mother if my father and mother were abusive?

Yes.

So again,

I want to make- Well,

Let's define because the- Abusive?

No,

I just want to break,

I want to start here because a lot of people,

Some have read the Bible,

Some don't,

Some believe in it,

Some don't.

So honoring my mother and my father,

What does that really mean?

Also I got this question last week and I answered it to somebody,

But I want to hear your take,

Is once you get married,

How does that change also?

So what is the responsibility of a child to a parent?

Right.

But before that,

I just want to say to be clear,

There's obviously certain levels of abuse that we're not going to talk about here,

Right?

The extreme ones,

Sexual abuse and otherwise that- Acquire incarceration and so forth.

But we're talking about where I think so many people have had interactions or a history with their parents where they believe or they were,

Right?

They were verbally abusive,

Physically abusive sometimes.

I just remember hearing an interview recently with somebody whose father would hit him a few times and he actually took it as a positive,

Whatever.

Wow,

Why was it positive for him?

Because it taught him.

It taught him important lessons in life.

I don't agree with this,

Obviously.

I'm confused.

Yes,

It is very confusing.

My point is we're focusing our conversation,

It's around where most people are with their parents,

Where the parents,

Again,

Even if they are 100% right,

That their parents did not treat them right.

Their parents weren't there for them.

Their parents yelled and so on and so forth.

So honor thy father and thy mother,

I think obviously it's a biblical phrase,

But I do think that spiritually we understand- Are you speaking out in healthy relationships and then you're going to tell us about abuse of what you're saying generally?

I think this is general and I think,

And this is again,

I have had many conversations with adults who have great scars from their parents' behavior towards them growing up.

And one of the things that I hope our listeners go through as we delve inside is to heal those relationships.

What does it mean to heal those relationships?

Well,

If you understand,

If you do the work to look inside and say,

My father,

My mother did this one,

Two,

And three,

And they were wrong.

None of this conversation makes any of their behavior okay.

They should do their own internal work.

But I needed to go through that.

And I really get to a place where maybe because it makes me more caring and loving and there for my children,

Maybe because it opens me up to other people.

Unless you find the growth,

The benefit,

Dare I say the blessing in those challenging histories of relationships,

Especially with our parents,

But with all people,

Then of course there can never be forgiveness and that forget about honor.

You can't even love at times your parents.

Well,

It's interesting too,

Because I think that a lot of parents who aren't great ones and who are abusive came from some form of abuse and it's how they were parented.

And I think that what I always say is to spend a life harboring hatred,

Pain,

Blame,

It only hurts you,

One.

Two,

You can't change what happened.

And three,

You certainly can't change your parents.

So what are your options either?

You choose not to have a relationship with them anymore,

Which is also painful because we've come from these people.

And spiritually,

We believe there's a connection that remains forever,

Regardless of whether we are physically interacting with them or not,

Or even if they're physically in this world.

Because they created you.

Or you try to have empathy for them and love them anyway.

Not that you have to necessarily have a relationship with them,

Close one,

Or a friendship,

Or that it's ever going to be amazing,

But it certainly is the best option.

And I would say,

I think that unless we have learned and grown from whatever pain they might have inflicted,

It will be very difficult to forgive.

It will be very difficult to actually have whatever level of relationship that we want to have with them.

Well,

I read Demi Moore's book Inside Out,

I think it's called.

Anyway,

It was a really,

Really good book and she had a very difficult childhood and her parents,

It was very,

A lot of turmoil,

A lot of chaos.

She wasn't parented.

But I was really inspired by how she grew from it and how she came to understand it.

And ultimately she was there with her mother on her mother's deathbed,

Taking care of her and loving her because she was able to see the full cycle of her life,

Her mother's life,

Where she came from.

And she wasn't a victim in it.

And she really tried to look for purpose and meaning,

Right?

Beautiful.

I would add one word,

Especially as we look back at relationships,

I think the word is kindness,

Right?

I think it's natural because if a person experienced negativity or even to the extreme of abuse,

Of course it's difficult to look back in kindness.

But as you said,

Maybe they grew up,

Abused themselves.

They didn't have the capability even to be loving and caring.

To look back both,

As we said first,

What I can learn and second,

To look back in kindness.

And I have found that the people who do those two things,

Who learn and grow from it,

Even if the behavior was not proper.

And forgive is a part of that.

And therefore forgive.

I don't think you can get the forgiveness unless you've grown from it.

No,

But forgiveness is definitely a step in that.

And then to look back in kindness and say,

It wasn't right what he or she did,

But I understand.

But what does it mean to honor thy parents?

No,

I think it's just to treat them well,

To respect them.

I mean,

To do all the things that would come from somebody who.

.

.

So how do you respect somebody but you don't respect their actions?

We do that all,

Hopefully we do that all the time.

Right?

I mean,

I respect myself.

I don't respect all of my actions.

I do things that are good.

Hopefully,

There's a lot more than things that I do that I shouldn't do.

But I respect myself because I know that every human being is made up of the positive and the negative.

So,

Respect doesn't mean putting them on a pedestal.

They were the most amazing father.

No,

I guess it's human dignity.

It's love.

And as I said,

I really think,

And I would strongly urge our listeners to look,

When you're looking back on those relationships,

Especially the important ones,

Look back in kindness.

So,

Before,

I'd like to ask you a question.

I'm assuming you didn't prepare one for me this week.

You know what?

I think our listeners are following very carefully.

Sweet,

I can never divulge my secrets.

I have a bag of tricks.

So my question to you is,

In the recent past,

How did you,

This would be a good story,

Where you reacted in the right way towards a challenging,

Important relationship?

I'm just keeping put on the spot.

Okay,

What was the question again?

Right way I acted to a challenging.

.

.

Behavior towards somebody that is an important relationship.

Yeah.

I mean,

I think you helped me with this.

So it's really true with somebody who's been in my life forever that I love deeply.

And there've been a lot of changes in her behavior and I've worked really hard to understand them and to have empathy and compassion.

But then I find myself fluctuating in that because she's inconsistent.

And you know that's one of my things,

Right?

Consistency is really big for me in relationships.

I'll accept anything pretty much as long as there's kindness and loyalty,

But the consistency thing is who's coming today,

Right?

Who's showing up?

So that one's hard for me.

So when I find this person to be inconsistent,

Then I don't feel as empathetic.

I don't feel as compassionate.

And I don't feel like engaging.

And the place that I got to is that if I could constantly appreciate this person,

Because if you appreciate,

Then you are consistent,

Right?

So what I learned actually completely is that the thing that was bothering me about her inconsistency was making me being consistent towards her.

That's beautiful.

That's beautiful.

10 points.

So yeah.

So I'm practicing.

And that appreciation word,

It's like a key.

So whenever I started to feel myself,

I'm like,

Wait a second,

Just appreciate those persons in your life because you'd be devastated if they weren't.

And that kind of puts everything in perspective.

That's beautiful.

Thank you.

Aren't you happy I asked?

I'm sure our listeners are.

I have a question for you.

Oh,

Okay.

I'm not sure we have time for that.

Oh,

See.

Okay.

Listeners.

Go for it.

Go for it.

Oh,

Yes.

Go for it.

What was an area of your tycoon,

Of your correction that you have worked on?

As it relates to relationships,

I'm assuming you're asking.

Whatever's really interesting.

I can't promise it's going to be interesting.

Well,

If it's honest,

I think it'll be interesting.

I think that area,

And we've had many conversations around this where,

And I'm not saying that this is easy,

Especially with friends,

Where your relationship is all,

Our relationship with friends,

Often family,

Is based on what they give to us.

And I think that when you become so dependent,

I'm speaking for myself,

On what they give you in the relationship,

And then they either disappoint or they stop behaving in that way.

They withhold.

Yeah.

It can be very hurtful.

Naturally so.

But one of the things which I'm very happy with myself for is that I've been able over these past 47 years,

And most recently in the past few years,

To get to a place where my,

Especially friendships,

Are based on,

I love this person,

I like this person,

I'm going to give,

But I'm not really invested how much they give back.

Because I'm in the relationship because I either enjoy it or I just love them,

And they give back great.

They don't give back also great.

To be able to move on from that is something that I've both worked on.

We've spoken about this a lot.

Really?

Because I always felt like you never really expected much from.

.

.

Well,

You expect consistency,

Right?

You don't expect gifts,

But you expect consistency.

To be able to show up when you should show up.

Exactly.

I didn't know it was a thing for you.

I learned something new about you today.

Not as good as your answer.

But before we end,

There's a letter that I don't think I've shared with you.

I think many of our listeners know there's a famous documentary on the Civil War by Ken Burns.

And there's one letter there which I think.

.

.

I just yawned.

Am I boring you?

Monica is not sleeping enough in the past few days.

But I just think it's so beautiful.

Again,

We're going to next week in America,

We have Thanksgiving.

I think even though this speaks more to relationships,

I just think it's such a beautiful letter.

Some things which are obvious,

But I just want to share it with our listeners.

Those of you who've heard it before,

I think like I do,

I often read it again and get inspired by it.

Those of you who haven't,

I really think you'll enjoy it.

And hopefully it'll awaken a sense of not only love towards our families or certainly our significant others,

But also some level of desiring to make our relationships better.

So this letter was written by Sullivan Bellew,

Who was a soldier.

This letter was written in July 14th,

1861,

And he actually died a week later.

It's very interesting.

So he wrote it to his wife and actually it was never delivered.

Although there were letters he wrote after this that got delivered to his wife,

This one wasn't.

It was found by the governor of Rhode Island who went to pick up the bodies of those who were killed from Rhode Island.

My Dear Sarah,

It's a little bit long,

But trust me,

I think you really find it beautiful.

But don't oversell it.

It is what it is.

My very dear Sarah,

The indications are very strong that we shall move in a few days,

Perhaps tomorrow.

Lest I should not be able to write again,

I feel impelled to write a few lines that may fall under your eye when I shall be no more.

I have no misgivings about or lack of confidence in the cause in which I am engaged,

And my courage does not halt or falter.

I know how strongly American civilization now leans on the triumph of the government and how a great debt we owe to those who went before us through the blood and sufferings of the revolution.

And I am willing,

Perfectly willing,

To lay down all of my joys in this life,

To help maintain this government and to pay that debt.

Sarah,

My love,

My love for you is deathless.

It seems to bind me with mighty cables that nothing but omnipotence could break.

And yet my love of country comes over me like a strong wind and bears me,

Unresistibly,

On with all these chains to the battlefield.

The memories of the blissful moments I have spent with you come creeping over me,

And I feel most gratified to God and to you that I have enjoyed them for so long.

And hard it is for me to give them up and burn to ashes the hopes of future years,

When,

God willing,

We might still have lived and loved together and seen our sons grown up to honorable manhood around us.

I have,

I know,

But a few and small claims upon divine providence,

But something whispers to me.

Perhaps it is the wafted prayer of my little Edgar that I shall return to my loved ones unharmed.

If I do not,

My dear Sarah,

Never forget how much I love you.

And when my last breath escapes me on the battlefield,

It will whisper your name.

Forgive my many faults and the many pains I have caused you.

How thoughtless and foolish I have oftentimes been.

How gladly would I wash out with my tears every little spot upon your happiness.

But oh Sarah,

If the dead can come back to this earth and flit unseen around those they loved,

I shall always be near you in the gladest days and in the darkest nights.

Always always.

And if there be a soft breeze upon your cheek,

It shall be my breath.

As the cool air fans your throbbing temple,

It shall be my spirit passing by.

Sarah,

Do not mourn me dead and think that I am gone.

Wait for thee,

For we shall meet again.

Wow.

That's so beautiful.

It's crazy.

I thought it was going to go a week later.

Right.

And I think for me,

There's so much in this letter,

Especially again those of us who are going to be with family,

Those of us who have any issues with family,

I think hopefully this awakens that desire.

Because I often think,

Especially when you had the challenging relationship,

Challenging moments,

You know,

Like you said before,

If that person was no longer in your life,

Right,

What would you feel then?

And try to live the current relationship with all the challenges that it has with that thought in mind.

That was really sad,

But beautiful.

Yeah.

Again,

Please keep sending in your questions,

Sending in your stories.

Make sure you're going to Apple Podcasts and anywhere you get podcasts,

Write reviews,

Five stars,

Share it with your friends.

We are overwhelmed by all the people who are listening and watching.

And we hope you enjoy this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording it.

Bye.

Reviews

Listening to this during a time where I’m having difficulty processing the passing of my father. Very comforting and insightful podcast…I have a lot of inner work to do.

First time Listener and I must say, this particular title was introduced and delivered in such a