Interview With Dr. Seth Kostek - Quantum Mechanics & Non-Duality

Dr. Seth Kostek is building a Holographic interpretation of Quantum Mechanics & Non-Duality. Simulation interviews the greatest minds alive to inspire you to build the future.

Transcript

What's up everyone,

Welcome to simulation.

I'm your host Alan Sakian.

So pumped to be talking about quantum mechanics and non-duality.

We have Dr.

Seth Kostak joining us on the show.

Hi Seth.

Hi Alan,

Thank you very much for having me on.

It's a pleasure.

I'm so pumped and that was a great last chat you had with Ori as well.

I'm so pumped for our conversation.

For those who don't know Seth's background,

He's building a holographic interpretation of quantum mechanics and non-duality.

You can find his links in the bio below.

SethKostak.

Com.

Also his YouTube channel which has a lot of epic content on it.

Go subscribe and check out those videos and then his Twitter profile where he actually is forced to compress the complexity of this into 240 characters.

280 now,

They gave me an extra 40.

Is that,

Oh yeah,

I think they upped it so it's great.

I needed a little leeway.

Alright,

You guys had a great convo.

I want to start off with this idea of infinite consciousness and this reality we find ourselves embedded in.

Why does it even exist?

So,

Because consciousness is infinite,

It doesn't exist outside of anything.

It is the totality of being which is the only being that's here.

So,

Since it's infinite,

There can't be anything other than it.

Otherwise,

That otherness would limit it to something less than infinite.

So,

If there is consciousness and consciousness is infinite,

Then it's all that can be here.

Okay,

And then why did consciousness make this?

So,

The this that you're referring to is infinite consciousness.

You're just misinterpreting it as the illusion of the finite.

So,

When I use the word this,

I'm referring to this finite universe that I'm talking about.

Yeah,

So,

I mean if you're infinite,

Knowing,

Consciousness is knowing,

It's a knowing being.

If you're an infinite knowing being,

You already know everything or you know there are no things to know.

You just know all.

So,

You might want to do something else.

So,

You might want to play some games.

Okay,

So all that is decided to make this game.

Yeah,

I use the word game.

I stole that from Alan Watts.

So,

A game is an activity engaged as a diversion or for amusement.

And so,

This infiniteness,

See there's only infinite consciousness here.

So,

It's going to have to divert its attention,

Its knowing from its own being to know the illusion of something that appears to be other than its infinite being.

So,

You're ignoring yourself so that you can play around and see the illusion of things like this microphone that appear to be other than yourself.

And then you identify with certain content within consciousness as yourself.

But you're not that content.

You're the knowing of it.

You do create it,

But it's,

There is only your infinite totality here.

So,

That's all that's here and the game is the ignorance of your being.

Okay,

And I highly recommend for those that haven't watched the interview with David Alexander English titled Infinite Consciousness on our channel to check that interview out.

David Alexander English says that the ultimate creation of infinite consciousness is this game where we can feel the illusion of separation.

Yeah,

So I would just say that consciousness was never created.

It's all that it is.

It's infinite.

It never came from anywhere.

A diversion you called it.

Yes,

So the game is occurring in consciousness as consciousness.

That's diverting its attention from consciousness.

The game appears to be created from the illusion of our finite perspectives,

But the game is part of infinite conscious because it has to be.

Because if there is any being,

It has to be consciousness.

It has to be part of that infinite being.

So,

Like this conversation has to take place.

Has to.

Because if it didn't,

Then consciousness wouldn't be part of consciousness.

The consciousness is infinite.

So it must include this conversation.

Now,

We didn't have to explore that conversation as a determined image,

Sound,

Thoughts,

Feelings,

Smells.

We didn't have to explore it as the illusion of finite.

It could be like the blank behind me that's undetermined.

It's blank.

There's nothing back there.

But if I turn around and I direct my attention,

I create interference that gives you the illusion of content here.

So there's just an issue with our physics and our language where we conflate occurrence and determination.

Saying that this is like causal.

No.

There's no such thing as cause and effect.

This is an illusion.

There's only consciousness and its activity of knowing the composition of complementary opposite limits that give the appearance of interference,

Holographic interference information that we take to be objects outside of consciousness.

But we're just looking at consciousness.

We're misinterpreting it.

Now,

Misinterpretation of perception is what an illusion is.

You're looking at the thing.

The thing is really there.

It's just that thing is the infinite being of consciousness that you're misinterpreting.

So if people think illusion means phantom or that it's not really there.

No,

It's really there.

It's right there.

This microphone is right there.

It's just consciousness.

You're misinterpreting it for a microphone.

As is yourself is consciousness.

So there's really,

I can't say anything directly about consciousness.

Even these words are all.

Let's start from a first principled understanding of this conversation.

So in the most first principled way,

And then we'll get to the preprint paper,

Which I also want to talk about what you were just saying.

I think this is extremely important.

Whereas in many ways,

We believe that Big Bang happened,

Which then created evolution,

Which then created consciousness rather than consciousness,

Just being all that is.

So let's start with this first principle of understanding.

So let's start with as best as we can with words that can describe what we're talking about.

God or all that is or infinite consciousness.

Are those all synonymous?

Yes.

So God would be all knowing,

Right?

So are you knowing these words that I'm saying right now?

So that's knowing,

Right?

So that knowing is included in the infinite set of all knowing.

So you must be God.

So if God is all knowing and you're knowing these words,

Then you're God.

Now I don't like to use the word God because it has caught up with so many misunderstandings and connotations.

There's nothing you can say about it.

We are all gods.

Not gods.

There's only one God.

We are all God.

Yeah.

But this infinite knowing being that we are is ignoring that infiniteness.

So Seth here is not conscious.

Alan is not conscious.

This microphone is not conscious.

It's made of it,

Occurring in it and known by consciousness as the illusion of something other than consciousness.

But there's only this infinite consciousness here and this consciousness is knowing with a capital K,

Is being with a capital B,

Is truth with a capital T because this knowing being is what consciousness is.

And if what is is being,

What is is what truth is.

Truth isn't what isn't.

So truth is this infinite totality which is a singularity with a capital S which is certainty.

Knowing is not guessing.

So certainty with a capital C.

Well this infinite knowing being truth of consciousness,

This is the I that you're referring to.

This is the I.

This is what I is.

Is knowing.

There is all synonyms.

You can call that God if you want.

That's taken from like a religious perspective but there's nothing you can say about it.

These words are trying to point to it but these words are still part of the game.

So like when Neo has to go into the matrix,

He has to go into the,

He can't be outside the matrix and be in the matrix.

He's got to use the matrix in the matrix.

You're in the matrix of mind here.

I can only use mind to describe the thing that's making this infinite labyrinth of your own mind that you're lost in.

You've forgotten who you really are,

Are walking around this labyrinth of your own mind thinking it's physical material objects outside of that mind.

And I'm wondering,

Oh man,

Why does it hurt when I stub my toe and why is this so hard and why is this so difficult and because consciousness is infinite.

It can do whatever it wants but it wants to know these limitations.

The purpose of life right now is then okay if this consciousness is ignoring itself on purpose then the purpose is to know these limitations.

These limitations hurt.

This is what suffering is.

This is what pain,

The trials and tribulations of life.

So this is the point is to play this game and feel these feelings and overcome and come together.

I mean this infinite consciousness is only it.

So there's no playmate for consciousness.

If consciousness wants to know what it's like to have a friendship,

To have a dialogue,

It needs to ignore its infiniteness,

Create these illusions of separation and then it can explore that content.

All aspects that are being done inside of the game of infinite consciousness are for learning,

Are for experiencing,

For being,

For truth.

I would just say it's knowing.

So like if I want to think about or guess what it's like to climb the Himalayas,

I have a little picture in my mind and oh yeah it'd be tough and I need some oxygen and I have like a mental but I don't know it.

I have never actually done it in experience.

So I can philosophize about it.

I can guess about it.

But see when consciousness wants to know something,

It knows it.

It's doing it.

It's actually knowing it from this finite perspective.

So it's a knowing.

I don't know if that answered your question or not.

So this infinite consciousness is for knowing a myriad of different… Yeah,

It knows.

So it's a singularity of infinite potential,

Infiniteness.

So it's abstracted its being into every single possible concept is knowing them as an entangled superposition of all possible occurrences simultaneously happening.

It's all simultaneously happening right now,

All of it.

Now part of some of those concepts in that singularity that are occurring are limits that prevent you from seeing the entire singular totality at one time.

So now you are knowing the concept of Alan not equals Alan.

By knowing the finite set of Alan,

You are ignoring Seth.

You're ignoring all these other perspectives and you've limited yourself to just seeing through this one perspective or knowing what that one perspective's content that they see.

So it's all occurring simultaneously but you've limited yourself from the axis of those other concepts.

So you don't see them.

You don't see all the other potential paths through life that you're currently simultaneously living right now.

But you don't see them.

You've limited yourself to one occurrence.

But they're all here simultaneously.

So like this is the… The Seth that chose to go on to be an entrepreneur versus the Seth that chose to continue working at a company or the Seth that chose to have a child or not have a child.

All of these paths are simultaneous.

All in infinite consciousness at the same time in quantum entangled states.

Yeah.

So if you're familiar,

There's a theory called the mini-worlds.

It's a mini-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

So they say that there are these mini-worlds out there and at every decision point there's a branching of these universes into new universes.

Because if you're talking infinite then there's that infinite is so large that at every branching decision.

Yeah.

So here's the issue is that that interpretation is closed but it missed it because see this isn't a world.

What do they mean by the mini-worlds?

This isn't a world.

This is a holographic conceptual interference pattern.

That's all this is.

That's what you're looking at.

And you've limited that holographic conceptual… Let's break that down.

Okay.

Yeah.

Let's break that down.

How do you want to break it down?

Okay.

So let's go back to first principles.

Okay.

So the words that we can use again to describe this reality,

All that is God and infinite consciousness are these words that we can use to describe the purpose of what is this happening is for this infinite consciousness to know or experience the illusion of something other than its infinite being.

Okay.

So there is that.

Okay.

To know or experience something other than the… That appears other than… That appears other than its infinite being.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

So that's what this is.

And you don't call this a creation.

You don't call these creations.

You call these games.

Well,

I just think game is an app.

So I'm confused.

It is its creation.

It can be a creation?

Yeah.

It is its creation.

I mean,

It's the ultimate… It's what creates the illusion of all things.

Consciousness is what is creating the illusion of all apparent things.

Okay.

So then we'll stay with that so that then that the creation of the game is… of these games,

The creation or these games.

So we can use maybe those words interchangeably as well.

Yeah.

See,

The thing is it's not like… I'm a person and I created this little object over there.

The creation is its being.

Yeah.

It is the being that it is creating.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So they're one and the same.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's the beauty of it.

See,

You're not Alan and I'm not Seth.

We are this experience of this little conversation right now.

That's what we are.

We're the knowing of this conversation and the hum of the fan and the lights.

We're the knowing of this experience.

That's what we are.

That's what consciousness is,

Is the knowing of all this.

So consciousness has created it,

But it's not like chiseling it out of clay or some… The creation of the game is not happening outside of infinite consciousness.

Correct.

Yeah.

It's inside.

It's inside infinite consciousness.

It hasn't made of it.

So made of it.

So we have,

Again,

Infinite consciousness,

God,

Or do you also use the word source or do you not use that?

I don't use it,

But you could use it because I think that's what they're pointing to,

Right?

You could feel theories.

Anyway,

I think so.

Can you also use non-duality up there?

Yeah.

Non-duality is… Okay.

Like,

Interchanged with all that is or infinite consciousness.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

All right.

So,

Again,

We have non-duality,

Infinite consciousness,

God,

Source,

All that is.

Yes.

We have these words that are at the top,

Let's say.

And then there's some sort of a game or a creation that happens inside of it,

Which is this experience or knowing of the infinite consciousness,

Of the separation of it.

Yeah.

So this infinite one totality,

Right?

That's all that's here.

So in order to ignore its infinite totality,

It's got to somehow cause the illusion of separation.

So how is it going to do that?

Because the only thing here is knowing.

So the only tool that it has is to know.

So how does it create separation?

It creates a concept.

So a concept,

Con is against and sept is take from the Latin.

And so these concepts appear as two dualistic complementary opposites made out of the knowing that they're not each other.

So that's how the illusion of duality arises.

So,

You know,

I have consciousness,

Which is infinite,

And then this knowing is knowing these opposites.

These opposites do not appear with only one of them.

I need both.

They're made,

Literally made out of each other.

So in physics you'll hear,

You know,

Oh,

Position and momentum.

Like you can never know the two at the same time.

Why not?

Because they're made out of knowing they're not each other.

So if I've got position over here,

I don't,

I'm ignoring momentum.

I've got momentum.

I'm ignoring position.

We'll get to that exact aspect of this as well.

So,

Okay,

So then this is some sort of a function of infinite consciousness to experience the knowing of the illusion of separation.

Okay,

So now we have those levels.

We have the first words of what this is.

Then we have the creation of the game and for the purpose that we just listed.

Okay,

So we're there.

We have that.

That's these first principles.

Okay,

Now we are here.

Now this physical,

So that kind of gives people the explanation that we were talking about earlier where many times it seems like,

Oh,

Big bang evolution then consciousness.

But no,

It's actually consciousness and then game creating the game that we're,

That this is.

Yeah,

It's conscious and this game,

The knowing of opposites is common.

The common parlance is mind.

So the mind is the knowing of these opposites.

So it's consciousness.

Then it plays this game of knowing opposites.

So it's consciousness.

Then there's the mind.

And then this mind,

When you interfere these concepts together,

Then you get the illusion of objects.

So it's the exact opposite of material physicalism.

We just flip it.

And so I'm also not the one that,

I mean,

I see this from a physical standpoint,

But the person that's way more eloquent than me,

Because he's English English,

Is Rupert Spira.

So that's who you,

If anyone's out there that really,

If I'm sound confusing,

Rupert's not confusing.

He's a surgical linguist.

He knows what he's,

He's got it.

He understands.

Yeah.

I love that.

That's actually so,

So important.

Okay.

So not like consciousness comes 13.

8 billion years later in a civilization.

But consciousness is the first,

The most first principled on this far,

Farthest side.

It's fundamental because it's all that's here.

Okay.

That's good.

All right.

Now,

You know,

Now let's get into what you were just describing earlier.

So now we have this,

You use these words knowing,

Being,

Truth.

So singularity is also another word that describes what we were talking about earlier at the highest level of all that is God's source of creation.

Okay.

Okay.

So then,

All right,

Great.

Now knowing,

Being,

Truth.

So what is,

What are we,

Are we talking about a feeling of knowing,

Of being,

Of truth?

Are we talking about that feeling of knowing the infinite consciousness of being the infinite consciousness of that being the truth that we feel that?

No,

I would say feeling is content.

So,

So what is then what is the,

Yeah,

The knowing is not limited.

So you can't grasp it.

It's not a feeling,

A thought.

It's not an image.

It's not a smell.

It's making the illusion of all that content.

So you're,

You're,

You're not,

It's not graspable.

This is what,

See,

Perspectives knowing through the mind want to try to grasp it as an object because the mind can only see things in terms of opposites.

This is what logic is.

So I can only know this because I know that this is not that.

So I'm trying to grasp infinite consciousness as an,

One of these limits.

But consciousness is the thing that's knowing the limits.

To grasp consciousness,

I would have to know this,

That simultaneously,

Which is a superposition of limits.

You can't know that.

You can't grasp it.

Touch your,

Touch this,

That thing.

Well,

Which thing?

This one or that one?

You can't grasp it.

It's not graspable.

So these feelings are content.

They're content occurring in consciousness.

How do we,

How do we gain then knowing or experience of infinite consciousness of God,

Of all that is,

How do we gain your knowing it right now?

Okay,

So this is all you're knowing.

You know it by being.

Yeah,

You're knowing it right now.

This is it.

Okay,

So we got it right here.

You got it.

You're already it.

Okay.

But you don't see it that way,

Do you?

You think you're Alan.

I want to know also how science can then do the scientific method and probe at this hypothesis that,

Yeah.

This is precisely what we need to talk about.

So here's the,

Here's the issue.

So you have to know how science works,

Right?

So if you're going to use,

There are different epistemological tools that you can use to try to probe experience.

So the first is religion,

Which justifies,

So again,

All these words that I'm talking,

These are limited.

They're not what's actually here.

They're made out of dualistic opposites.

So these words are not the truth.

Nothing I'm saying is true.

These are conceptually true beliefs within a belief system.

So when you understand that all we have here are statements that we've accepted.

I mean,

You were born,

Right?

Was the word world already here when you were born?

Did you hear about it and then say,

Yeah,

This is a world?

Well,

Then that's a belief.

That's a statement you've accepted describing this infinite consciousness.

You accept that,

Now you have a belief.

Oh yeah,

This is a world.

I'm a human.

Did you invent the word human?

Did you do an experiment to figure out that you're a human being?

No.

Your parents told you you're a human being.

You say,

Yeah,

I am.

So you've got beliefs here.

There's nothing but beliefs.

And then now we have to figure out which beliefs are justified and which are just an opinion.

Okay,

So we're ascribing language to beliefs.

And then that is in a sense then creating some sort of a way both for us to describe the things that we're engaging with,

But also it's a limitation.

Yes,

It's a limitation on infinite consciousness.

And then you think this is a finite object.

So you've got these beliefs and then now you've got to figure out how do I know which ones are valid?

So this is the study of epistemology.

It's the study of what's justified truth versus belief.

Yeah,

Justified opinion versus,

Justified belief versus opinion.

So we only got beliefs here.

Which ones are valid?

Okay,

Well we've got religion which justifies belief with belief.

You're a human and that's true because I believe it's true.

It's a statement I've accepted and I believe that statement.

That's a religious belief.

Okay,

Then you've got philosophy which uses logic to justify beliefs.

You've got to start with a belief.

So all your logic is an infinite chain of causal action.

You've got to terminate that chain somewhere.

So okay,

I'll terminate at the Big Bang.

There was a Big Bang.

That's a belief.

It's a statement.

I wasn't around.

I didn't actually experience it.

So it's something I accepted.

That statement,

Big Bang,

Was here before I was born and I heard about it and then I accepted it.

Okay,

So that's a belief.

I got that and now I run my causal chain forward.

It makes a universe and all the stuff and stars and humans and planets and all that stuff.

Now I've got a logical causation that's a philosophy of how this thing occurred.

It's justified by logic.

So you've got this whole material physicalist paradigm that there was a universe and evolution and all the stuff and now that's how I'm here as a human being.

I was born.

My parents conceived me and that's how I'm here.

Okay,

Well that's beliefs justified by logic.

Okay,

Well now science is different because it justifies our beliefs via experience.

Now experience was one of our words.

Consciousness,

Truth,

Experience.

So this experience,

Not the concept of experience not equals experience.

Experience,

The totality of experience,

The infinite occurrence of what is happening.

That is what?

Truth.

That's where science goes to justify its beliefs.

It justifies its beliefs in infinite truth itself.

That's why science is so powerful.

So science doesn't have nothing to do with beliefs.

It's intimately intertwined with beliefs and logic.

But the arbiter in science is experience.

So science starts with a belief.

You perform a logically constrained test of that belief performed in the actuality of knowing experience.

You actually have to do an experiment in science for it to be science,

For it to be justified by science.

So theoretical physics is not science.

It's philosophy.

Then when you do the experiment you have to interpret the results through your limited perspective.

You write it down,

You publish your paper.

Now someone reads the paper,

What do they got?

They got a belief out again because accepting the statements in that paper even though they're justified by experience.

They're trying to peer review it which would then create more experience.

I'm talking about the,

There's only experience so yeah,

People reading the beliefs and stuff is experience.

But when you get out of the paper is a statement that you've accepted.

So it starts with beliefs and it ends with beliefs.

But the arbiter of the experiment was experience.

Yes.

And then the point of that is when you say things like infinite consciousness,

The question is how do you know?

And then the follow up to that is okay,

We're using science to conduct experiments for experiencing that.

Yeah,

So over time you can maybe peer review things and get more and more people around the world that have this,

That use the scientific method to experience infinite consciousness or to understand it better.

Well here you're going to only get beliefs still.

So even if you read these papers,

But what's going to happen is you're touching the truth,

Right,

With every experience.

So more and more of it rubs off on a science,

Right,

Over time.

Over time we get closer and our models get better,

Right?

Newton could only do so much stuff because his science only described was able to limit consciousness in a certain way.

But as we get quantum mechanics and relativity,

Well now we're powerful,

Right?

We can unlock the unbelievable power of what we believe to be atoms.

We split these atoms and the power of God comes right out of there.

So when you start to touch the truth of experience,

You become more and more powerful because you're becoming more and more infinite.

You're getting closer and closer to that truth.

So what happens is then you can start to design experiments or reinterpret experience and then see how science proves scientifically through experience that you're in a conscious singularity.

Okay,

Perfect.

How do we use science to prove that we're in a conscious singularity?

Okay,

So this is written in my paper.

Yes.

Okay,

So let's also give the title,

Visual Perception Mediated by Light Traversing 4D Space-Time Continua is an Illusion.

So the double slit experiment proving non-duality.

Correct,

That's what it does.

Okay,

So yeah.

So the issue you're going to have is that it's just better if you've never heard about the double slit experiment at all.

Because the double slit experiment is contextualized under the paradigm of material physicalism and this experiment breaks that paradigm.

It shatters it.

So if you go into knowing about the double slit experiment and oh there's particles and waves and there's light traversing space-time,

You got a huge mountain to climb because none of that is occurring.

There's no light traversing any slits in the double slit experiment.

There's only consciousness.

Knowing the illusion of this content that gives rise to the interference pattern.

So let's just,

I don't know how I want to start this.

So basically what the double slit experiment really is,

Is an assay of visual perception.

So you have a field of view right now.

Okay,

So this is when we're going to get to the visual perception.

What we were talking about before,

A little bit on the show and also before,

With a banana.

That's kind of an easy one.

Let's use the microphone.

The mic's in the shot,

Sure.

But the banana is something you also eat,

Which is something that.

Yeah,

Okay,

So we got a banana here.

How do you see that banana?

Let me go get the banana,

I'll be right back.

You got to have your banana.

I don't know what you were thinking about.

I mean we're going bananas here,

Right?

I think this is a little joke.

I'll give you some options even.

I love options.

I love options.

So here are bananas,

Here's our apple.

Let's go with,

Let's go with,

Let's go.

I'll just hold one.

I need that.

So what a lot of people do is they go into concepts and beliefs,

Right?

And they're talking about the double slit experiment.

They're not talking from actuality.

So are you seeing a banana?

Is this a banana?

I mean you handed me a banana,

So are you seeing a banana?

Well we're using that to.

I'm just saying,

I'm just asking you a question.

We're conceptualizing our environment with that.

No,

No,

No,

Forget all this stuff.

Let's go with this.

Are I seeing a banana?

Yes.

Okay,

Great.

So you're seeing a banana.

So now the question is how is that occurring?

How are you seeing this banana?

So we've got this belief,

Okay,

I'm seeing a banana from light that's interacted with it,

Traversed space time,

Entered my eyes.

That light information is converted into our biological signals,

That my varying processes,

That forms a known image in the mind,

That consciousness is then knowing,

And the knowing of that known image determines the existence of the physical banana.

That's what light mediated perception states.

Light mediated perception is what you just described.

Yeah,

So the theory of light mediated perception,

So you have to then understand like,

Okay,

Is that belief true?

Is that logical chain of reasoning,

Is that correct?

Is that how it really works?

It's just a belief.

You heard that you were seeing objects with light shining on them.

Well,

For millions of years we have decided that that is a banana and that we've been passing that down.

Yeah,

So but the idea that you're seeing from light,

Right,

This is also a belief,

Right?

That we're seeing from light making the neurobiological signals that we're interpreting with an image of the past and then our consciousness thinks it's a banana.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we found out that that logical chain of reasoning from these beliefs is philosophy.

Okay,

So what we're here to do is science.

So we need to do an experiment.

Okay.

We need to do an experiment that tests vision.

So how the heck are we going to do that?

Because vision is topologically bound.

So this banana behind me right now,

It's probably off frame too.

Now it's in.

Right?

I'm not knowing an image of it,

Right?

So the image of the banana is undetermined.

Now I bring it into my determined field of view and I see it.

So we go from undetermined to determined.

So what we got to do is break the topology of our vision.

I've got to get that undetermined blank behind me into my visual field.

Shine light on it.

Okay,

Hold on one second.

Okay,

We want to turn the.

.

.

No,

You don't have to.

.

.

This is just.

.

.

You just take your camera,

You put it in selfie mode,

Right?

Okay.

So this is.

.

.

I take light,

I have to shine it on.

.

.

Let's show the viewers.

All right,

So here's the.

.

.

Here's it's in selfie mode,

Yep.

So there's an image of the banana on the screen,

Right?

Yeah,

There is.

Okay,

So what we have to do.

.

.

Okay.

You don't even need this thing.

So this is just going to be my detector.

So what we need is an object that's undetermined.

We've got to break the topology.

We've got to bring that undetermined blank into our field of view,

Shine light on it,

Let that light traverse space time,

And then I need a photon detector that can also display the image that it's knowing.

So this is a perceiver,

Right?

Got it.

So like you're a perceiver,

You're perceiving,

But this perceiver is special because I can perceive the perception,

The perceiver is perceiving.

Perceiving,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

So I love Dr.

Seuss,

Right?

Yeah,

Yeah.

So in this sense,

I see what you're seeing,

That's why you did the front facing camera,

Because we're seeing what the front facing camera is perceiving.

Yeah,

So this is what we have to do to ask a visual perception.

I've got to take all of the elements of visual perception,

Put them in my visual field of view,

And then look to see what happens.

Yes.

Okay.

So the claim of light-mediated visual perception is that light shining on undetermined objects determines known images of them.

Known images,

Like the image of the banana on the screen here,

Had a one-to-one fixed correspondence to the object producing it.

There was one banana here,

And there's one banana on the screen.

It's a known image,

Right?

Knowing known images tells me there are known objects there.

I can look at the known image,

Reach my hand out,

And I get confirmation,

Oh,

There's a physical material object there because I'm looking at the known image.

Okay,

So.

Okay.

You see the problem we have.

That's one that's light-mediated perception that you just stated.

Yeah,

So how do I get the blank behind me into my determined field of view?

Because I can't turn my head around fast enough.

Every time I turn my head around,

The blank falls behind it,

Right?

It's complementary a pose.

I can never get the undetermined into my visual field of view so I could shine light on it so that I could see if I see a known image.

How the hell are we going to do this?

Okay,

So well,

If you start to think about determined and undetermined,

You realize that spacetime,

Empty spacetime,

Is a determined undetermined.

One more time with all of this.

So it's undetermined because it's not in my field of perception.

And then when it's in my field,

It is determined.

If I have somebody standing up behind you,

I tell them to hold up a number of fingers.

How many fingers are they holding up?

No idea.

Because you can't determine it.

Yeah.

Now you turn around and look.

Oh,

Three fingers.

Yeah.

Then you've determined it.

Okay.

It's known.

Okay.

Before it was unknown and now it's known.

Okay,

And then now we're trying to make a scientific experiment.

So now we're just trying to make a scientific experiment to see because light-mediated perception claims that shining light on undetermined objects determines their existence by knowing a known image of them.

By knowing a known image.

So right now what is behind me is undetermined.

Okay.

Until you look.

There's light shining on it,

But it's being blocked by the back of my head.

I turn around and I look at,

Allow that light to stream into my eyes and then now I know a known image.

And it's determined it's a known image.

Yeah.

And then the argument is that it is always known.

It is infinite consciousness is always known,

But then we need a scientific method to- Yeah,

I just need to do an experiment.

Okay.

An experience that proves it.

So I've got to do that.

I've got to,

That belief system that you have there,

That you're shining light on objects and you're determining known images of them.

Well,

That's belief in philosophy.

I need an experiment.

I need to prove it.

I need to do it in experience.

I can make up any philosophical argument I want,

But it's just BS.

Until I actually do the experiment,

Then I find out the truth.

Okay.

Okay.

So we've got to construct an undetermined object in our field of view so that we can shine light on it and then capture that light information on the screen.

So you know this is a determined field of view,

Right?

There are known images and then there are these voids where the known images are objects,

Physical material objects,

And the voids are determined that there are no objects there.

So there are no objects here because there are no known images.

So if I hold up my two fingers,

Right,

You're knowing known images of those two finger objects.

But are you knowing a known image of the empty space time between the two fingers?

What's the image?

Can you draw it for me of this empty space?

Is there a known image there?

Yes or no?

A bunch of oxygen and nitrogen atoms.

Are you seeing.

.

.

Did you draw me oxygen?

So there are known images of these objects that you're knowing,

But in the empty space,

When light passes through an empty space time where there are no objects,

Then there's not a known image there.

There's the lack of a known image.

So it's transparent.

That way you can see through to the background.

You can't see through the background where the objects are occurring because there's a known image that blocks out the background.

But where there is no known image,

The knowing of not a known image,

That tells you that there's no objects there.

And then you can see through the background and now you're knowing that known image.

So light traversing space time,

Producing not a known image,

Determines that there are no existing objects there.

Nothing exists there.

This is key.

The lack of a known image,

The knowing of not a known image,

Determines that there are no existing objects.

Okay,

So what we're going to do is we're going to shine light on our undetermined object.

And let's just say the undetermined object was these two fingers.

So you shine light on it.

And if you saw ten fingers,

Would that ten finger image that you're knowing be a known image or not a known image?

So I'm holding up two.

There's two fingers,

But you're seeing ten.

Is that ten finger image that you're knowing an image that has a one to one fixed correspondence to the object producing it?

No.

No.

So if I'm holding up two fingers and you're seeing ten,

You're hallucinating because you're knowing the appearance of something that's not actually present.

Hallucinations don't occur outside of consciousness.

They occur inside of consciousness.

They're made of consciousness,

Right?

Okay.

So we've got to create our.

.

.

This is what you're talking about,

Like the interference pattern is what.

.

.

Okay.

So we've got to create an object that we can shine light on that's undetermined.

So if I've got determined,

Undetermined voids,

Right,

The objects in here have a shape,

A defined form.

But the space,

As I move these objects together,

The space in between,

See,

It's like an amoeba.

It changes its shape.

The fists don't change their shape.

The space is a determined,

Undetermined.

It's an always changing ever amoeba-like void.

So if I take space-time,

It's space-time right here.

And I start to limit it.

I start putting constraints on it.

And I limit it,

I can make an object called a hole.

Now I've got an object.

And if I got my hole here and I shine light on it,

I get an image of a hole.

No problem.

Okay.

But we know the hole is determined because there's no other place for the light to go.

If I have this hole in a barrier,

I block out all the other light.

The light has to go through that hole.

Otherwise,

There would be no illumination at all.

Okay.

But again,

We need a undetermined object now to determine one.

So for clever,

What we can do is put two slits side by side.

Now I cannot determine which slit the light goes through.

So now when I shine light on this undetermined object,

Do I get a known image that has a one to one fixed correspondence to the two slits?

You would see two light.

That's what you see.

You got two holes and you should see two lines on there,

Right?

You don't.

You see 10 fingers.

You see a distributed line pattern.

Two slits make 10.

Or more,

Depending on the configuration.

But they create what is commonly referred to as an interference pattern.

It's not,

But that's what they call it.

It's the lack of interference is what you're seeing.

That pattern is the lack of interference.

So it's the lack of interference.

So when we put the banana out,

There is interference.

There's a lot that we have to talk about before I talk about lack of interference.

So that's got to be,

That's like maybe 30 minutes from now.

So here's the thing is the crux of the whole experience,

The whole thing is you have two objects or an undetermined object of two slits.

You can't determine which slit the light goes through and when you shine light on that undetermined object,

You don't get a known image that determines it.

So when you turn around,

You are not knowing the image behind you from light that's shown on it.

Because we just proved light shining on undetermined objects does not determine them.

Okay,

So now here's the mind blowing part.

Here's the mind blowing part.

Going so far,

So this seemingly non-super controversial double slit experiment actually is quite controversial because it could potentially null our way of what we initially thought was the light mediated perception.

Correct.

Which is a massive deal.

This is huge.

This is the whole thing,

Everything.

This is the most important experiment in the history of mankind.

So,

This is it.

So Richard Feynman properly said,

The entire mystery of the universe is in this experiment.

The mystery of the entire universe is in this one experiment.

And here it is.

You shine light on an undetermined object,

It does not determine it.

So you turn around,

That image is not determined from light that's shined on it.

Okay,

Now,

When you are knowing,

You got ten figures from two,

When you are knowing not a known image,

Then the object imaged does not exist.

Or it exists in a different way that's creating what is your.

.

.

It doesn't exist outside of consciousness,

It's being in consciousness as a hallucination.

So,

When light traverses an empty space-time,

Like between the two fingers and there are no objects that exist there,

You know not a known image.

When you see the distributed line pattern,

Canonically referred to as an interference pattern,

You are knowing not a known image.

Therefore,

That slit object does not exist.

Why does it make it so that the slit object doesn't exist?

Why isn't it just that there's something about the way that we're seeing an interference pattern rather than just two.

.

.

You're seeing this banana,

You're knowing a known image of it,

That known image is telling you that the banana exists,

Right?

So what if you were seeing this banana but it was 80 bananas here?

But it wasn't light mediated perception?

There's no light mediated perception here.

What is it if it's not light mediated perception?

Consciousness.

So what this experiment reveals is that these slits and everything they're attached to is occurring in consciousness,

As consciousness.

There is no cause and effect.

You could shine light all day long on an undetermined point.

It never causes a known image.

In order to get a known image,

In order to change that distributed line pattern to two lines,

I have to put an apparatus behind the double slit experiment that converts the photons that go through it into multiple photons that then I can know which path they took through slit A or B or I could erase that information.

And when I do that,

What happens?

Well,

Now it's no longer undetermined.

I've determined it because I am knowing which slit the light goes through.

Knowing consciousness is determining which slit.

So determination doesn't occur from light shining on things.

Determination occurs from knowing the composition of concepts.

And it turns out you need four limits or at minimum two concepts to know the illusion of any finite content.

And this is what the double slit experiment is telling you.

You've got this concept of photon not equals photon multiplied by known slit,

Unknown slit.

And when you have a photon times a known slit,

You get two lines.

When you have a photon times an unknown slit,

You get distributed pattern of lines.

And the reason is,

Is that this concept structure is asymmetric.

So I have the illusion of a finite set of potential here made out of knowing that it's not the infinite totality of consciousness.

It's an infinite set on this side.

If I have the concept of the number one not equals the number one,

One appears as a finite set and it's made out of knowing that it's not two,

Not three,

Not four,

Not every other number.

So this infinite conceptual set is not limiting.

It's infinite.

So it doesn't restrict which slit the light goes through.

It's interfering with that concept and you're knowing the entire concept all at the same time.

It's hard to talk about this.

It's easier to draw it or something but you know.

I think another way maybe for this to then make sense is from a way of us perceiving just in general.

So when we're talking about infinite consciousness as being everything,

All that is God,

This is the very first principle thing we were talking about.

There is no separation between me and you,

Me and this microphone,

Us and this apple.

There's no separation.

It's all consciousness.

Then the next thing would be to say something along the lines of then the way that like with a double slit experiment or with the way that we're talking about this apple is that if it's all infinite consciousness then I have to kind of do some sort of a,

We were talking about this before we started,

Some sort of like an ebb and flowing that happens that I go from being in this infinite consciousness state to being like okay this is an apple because I am hungry and I need to eat this apple to gain nourishment.

So then that process is in some sense like an ebbing and flowing between those two things.

So when you take something like a double slit experiment it's like when you're trying to do it and you're trying to prove that oh this is a two slit supposed to be two but instead it's a 10,

It's an interference pattern that we see.

What we're trying to do is we're trying to say I want to eat this apple in that study versus saying that it's all consciousness.

This is,

At least that's the best that I could do with my limit.

Yeah,

The thing is both are true simultaneously.

So it's all infinite consciousness and you are knowing the illusion of separation and they're happening simultaneously right on top of each other.

But you're paying attention,

You're not understanding that this is infinite consciousness.

Okay so the infinite consciousness and the illusion of separation are happening simultaneously and then that's why in like the double slit experiment you're seeing both of those things.

You're seeing that there is that infinite consciousness but we're perceiving it as some sort of like illusion of separation of photons and interference patterns.

Yeah so this experiment proves that there's no such thing as perception because there's nothing,

Perception means to know something through the senses but there's no light going into your eyes.

You see,

So there is no such thing as perception.

It's totally false.

It's an illusion.

You think it's perception.

You think there's light traversing space time going to your eyes or you think you have tactile feelings.

There's no senses here.

That's an illusion.

You ignore what's actually going on and then you just think that you're this human being,

This sensing of this world.

Because then we're embedded in the immersion of separation when we're saying that there's a tactile.

Yeah,

I mean a way to think about this.

But I need to know tactile because I don't want to burn myself.

Yeah,

You don't want to know the knowing of a stove top.

Yeah,

Yeah.

That I mean,

Yes,

Not good.

Not good.

Well,

I mean it's,

There's nothing wrong with it but you will be in pain.

I don't want to know that knowing of pain.

You don't want to know that pain.

Yeah.

But notice that a child doesn't innately know that,

Right?

Hasn't experienced it.

So it doesn't know what that is.

That's why you have to prevent your children from putting their hands on the stove.

They don't know it's hot.

They don't know they're going to burn themselves.

They burn themselves,

Now they know.

Ah.

So that's also a little blank slate versus like lineage of evolution,

What's baked into the child's mind at that point.

Yeah,

A way to think about this and I kind of like this way.

So you can either think of like a movie reel.

An old time movie.

You're going to a theater and there's a movie and there's 24 actual frames per second,

Right?

It's all in this big tin can.

So let's just say the beginning of that movie was your life.

You were born.

And the end of the movie is your death.

And it looks,

When you put this film in the projector,

The laser light of the projector,

Right?

The light of knowing is shining through each film as the film scrolls through it.

And you look at the projection and you think,

Oh yeah,

Harrison Ford is moving around on the screen.

Is Harrison Ford moving anything?

No,

He's not moving anywhere.

They're static frames.

That's what's really here.

This interference film of concepts is what's really here.

And then it's just the motion of the projector that makes it appear that things are moving around here,

But there's only this interference film of concepts.

So this is where holography comes in.

You also said that,

Also as you get into holography,

You said this,

Just needing to reiterate how important it is that there is no perception.

The double slit experiment proves that there is no perception.

There's no perception.

There's no light mediated perception.

There's no light going through the slits because see,

If everything's in consciousness,

And consciousness is an infinite dimensionless singularity,

There's nothing moving anywhere,

Right?

How can you move in no distance in no time?

You can't.

There's no such thing.

So okay,

And then a holography.

Yeah.

So the thing is,

Okay,

How do you describe an infinite dimensionless singularity?

There's no way to do it,

Right?

So the only way I can describe it is to find a conceptual singularity.

So black holes,

Trillions of black holes,

Those are conceptual singularities.

There are content occurring in consciousness that is a pointless,

Dimensionless,

Infinite point,

Right?

Matter and energy fall into a black hole,

And then at the bottom there's a singularity where it goes infinite.

Nothing can really be said of this thing,

Right?

So there are a lot of arguments about this because you don't know what happened.

You throw something in a black hole and the black hole evaporates and you lose the information,

You're going to have a problem with the physics where you lose information.

So what are you going to do?

So there's a lot of brilliant scientists on this.

So Bekenstein,

And this was done in the 70s,

And Hawking and Van Tuft and Boussaud and Susskind.

These guys are great guys.

Susskind's around the corner,

So you should have him on your show.

I know.

He's cool.

I know.

He's a little crotchety,

But he's cool.

He's cool.

He's like a grandpa.

I love him.

So these guys are cool.

And so what they've done is they say,

Okay,

Well,

If you drop information into a black hole,

The information has to be there somewhere.

So where is it?

And so they came up with this mathematics that describes black hole thermodynamic entropy.

So information.

It's information theory.

And so they've come up with this Bekenstein-Hawking equation that describes a conceptual singularity.

Okay,

So now you can use that to describe the actual singularity of consciousness.

This description of consciousness is still wrong.

You can't,

There's nothing finite about consciousness.

This is not a correct theory.

You can't have a correct theory.

You can't have a finite theory that describes the infinite.

It's impossible.

Because that theory is occurring in the infinite.

So you would need something outside of it to describe the theory that's occurring within it.

So you can't do it.

It's bound.

But you can come close,

Right?

We keep refining this,

Right?

So we get closer and closer and closer.

So this theory is pretty cool because it brings quantum mechanics and general relativity together in one equation.

The entirety of physics,

The entirety explanation,

Everything is right within that equation.

And if you substitute.

.

.

Conceptual singularity.

So a conceptual singularity is like a black hole out there,

Right?

You get sucked in.

You can't escape it,

Right?

That's a conceptual singularity.

This here,

This experience,

This whole conference,

This is an actual singularity.

An actual singularity.

The actual singularity of consciousness contains black holes as concepts.

Yeah.

Conceptual interference.

So this is what's happening.

So the cool thing is that.

.

.

So what was the equation that was.

.

.

The Beckenstein-Hocking equation.

The Beckenstein-Hocking equation.

Which describes what happens thermodynamically and tropically.

So it explains the geometric information content of a black hole.

Of a black hole.

Okay.

And you said that that bridges together quantum mechanics and general relativity?

Yes.

And information theory.

And information theory.

So Claude Shannon,

Way long ago,

Showed how you can mathematically describe information.

And it's the same as Gibbs entropy formula.

Interesting.

So what you do is you just substitute Gibbs' entropy formula into the Beckenstein-Hocking equation,

And then you get this little equation that shows you how limits of potential,

Four of them,

Summed together and then composited together give rise to the illusion of this content.

Give rise to these little frames of your movie.

So this is like a.

.

.

Again,

Getting back to the projector.

So now think of your.

.

.

Instead of like the movie frame,

Let's talk about a hologram.

So we'll replace our movie with a hologram.

So we've got a laser light now,

And it's got this interference film.

It's this interference pattern of concepts.

It's shining through this film and then it projects this entire illusion of a three-dimensional hologram that you take to be real or a reality or physical or material.

So infinite consciousness is using holography to make this?

Infinite consciousness is knowing concepts as it shines its laser light of knowing through this hyperplane-like event horizon holographic film of concepts.

It produces the illusion of a holographic image that you take to be the physical material world.

So infinite consciousness is all knowingness creates the illusion of separation world that we're in.

So the issue.

.

.

And it's holographic.

Yes,

It's holographic in nature.

So the interesting thing about this little movie or this.

.

.

If we go back to our movie analogy,

Is that your path that you're on,

If you look back at it,

You would see.

.

.

If you watch the entire movie from the beginning to the end,

It's just one film,

Right?

And the interference pattern,

Again,

That infinite consciousness is creating this illusion of separation world through that interference pattern is what,

Again?

It's concepts.

It's concepts.

Okay,

So the all knowingness is shining through concepts to make this holographic illusion of separation.

And what are the concepts?

That it's just.

.

.

Every abstraction,

Every pair of opposites,

The consciousness is knowing.

Every pair of opposites,

That consciousness is knowing.

Yeah,

Complementary opposites.

So I only know what this is by knowing it's not equals this.

I only know what up is by knowing what not.

.

.

Does that start with some sort of a more maybe simple source code that then becomes more and more complex over time?

I don't know what you mean by that.

There's only.

.

.

Could the interference pattern of concepts that you talk about,

Could that have a very,

Very initial simple amount of just simplicity to the concepts that then as it evolves,

It becomes.

.

.

As the holography evolves,

Then that initial simplicity becomes more and more complex of these concepts.

The concepts become more and more complex,

But they're initially baked into a very simple interference pattern of concepts.

How I would answer that is no,

Because consciousness is infinite.

It's the only being that's here.

And this game of knowing these concepts has to be part of its infinite being at all times.

Basically the question is more so that in this interference pattern of concepts,

It does know it all,

As you're saying,

Yet the question is about if then over just time of what has happened in this game of the illusion,

If those have evolved where there's more concepts that have evolved.

So here's the thing.

So the whole.

.

.

And this is what I was trying to get to with the life.

So let's just say you've got this life.

It's this film.

It's one film canister.

You stretch it out.

You stretch it out.

You lay it on the driveway and you can see the entire thing all simultaneously.

You're like 80 years of 24 frames a second.

You're just looking at.

.

.

You can look at.

.

.

You can.

.

.

You can look at the whole film at the whole time.

You can even look at it the whole time wrapped up in the canister.

You can see the whole thing all at once.

It doesn't look like this,

Right?

It doesn't look like watching the movie.

It looks like the film canister,

Right?

Okay.

Now the thing is,

Is because it's infinite at every cell in the film,

You have an infinite number of choices in every direction.

So now,

Not only do you have one film canister in one path in life that you can take,

All of these.

.

.

You have an infinite number of film canisters for every frame.

Yes.

Yes.

So now it becomes impossible to think about.

You can't even.

.

.

You can't even like,

Okay,

This is crazy,

Right?

So you and interestingly enough,

Like I was mentioning to you before we started,

Who I'm excited to hear you potentially talk to,

Cleo Irwin,

Have a very similar conceptual understanding of that specific thing because Cleo Irwin talks about it like a massive kelp forest and that you have this massive,

Massively tall piece of kelp.

And then each little tiny moment in time,

24 frames per second,

Let's say,

Is a card in this big deck of cards that is as tall as like a piece of kelp.

And that when you go out like that,

Like this big film canister you were describing,

That then you see that each one of those moments in time that those frames like on the film canisters,

A deck of cards,

Each one of those is.

.

.

There's so many ways to take this,

But it's a beautiful gift.

Even if there's like a little traumatic thing that's dealt there,

That there's still some sort of a treasure that comes from that.

That's a slightly separate thing.

But that one piece of kelp,

Like you were just describing,

Has an infinite amount of.

.

.

So this way is horizontal,

Or this is vertical,

I'm sorry,

Vertical.

And then there's an infinite amount of horizontals in every direction from each frame even.

And then so- It's very fractal.

So it's like this fractal.

And the way to describe that is just the fact that we were using a banana and an apple and I didn't grab the orange,

But I could have easily grabbed the orange as well.

So that's a frame in that projector film that you're talking about that it could have grabbed the orange.

And so the many worlds and sometimes can interpret it as there is an Alan talking to a Seth with an Ori that grabbed the orange instead of grabbed the apple.

That's happening all at the same time.

Correct.

But it's happened from the beginning of everything.

It's always been there.

And so the other issue is that it's probabilistic.

So you are infinite potential,

You're knowing the illusion of limited potential,

And then these potentials constrain the concepts that you have access to.

So right now,

Since you didn't grab the orange and Seth's not gonna get out of his seat,

He's constrained from knowing touching an orange right now.

See this occurrence,

There's no orange here for Seth to touch,

So he can't touch it.

He's constrained conceptually.

And so the concepts constrain each other to potential probabilities.

So when you look into what this whole thing is and you're like,

Oh,

I thought it was a thing.

I thought this was physical and material.

Quantum mechanics is telling you the only being here that we can describe are limited events,

Uncertain limited probabilities.

That's what it's saying.

Uncertain limited probabilities like concepts and relationships.

Yeah,

You could say there's only relationship.

There's only these events.

There's only relationship.

Yeah,

There's only these events here.

So there aren't things like this microphone isn't a microphone object,

Physical thing.

It's microphoning.

It's conscious microphoning.

Conscious microphoning.

That's apple appling.

Conscious appling.

This is also from Alan Watts.

So he's like,

No,

It looks physical and static,

Right?

But if you were looking under the physicalist perspective who think that these things are atoms and stuff,

You would see molecules bouncing off and it's dancing,

Right?

You just don't see that.

You're limited.

You've limited yourself.

Like we were talking about the oxygen and nitrogen.

Yeah,

You're limited.

You don't see that.

Yeah.

But see,

This oxygen and these atoms and these molecules,

They're concepts.

They're not physical material things.

So you're going to laugh your ass off.

I mean,

I love Stern and everything and I love science and we should play all you want,

But they built a $40 billion knife.

Let's cut that apple in half.

For 9.

95,

You can get a Ginsu or something,

Right?

Okay,

Well now we're going to have a knife that we have to have a knife that's edge is so sharp.

I need what?

11 tera electron volts or something,

Right?

And it's going to cost me $40 billion and I'm going to start cutting these atoms in half.

But they're you're just splitting concepts and they're,

But they're,

They're also not like a knife because they're doing collisions,

Which then is what the knifing is.

You're cutting.

Yeah.

The mind is the illusion of cutting,

Cutting mind cuts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cuts is the illusion of separation.

So in order to know this over here,

I've got to know it's not that it's not that.

So I got to cut these atoms.

Okay.

Well,

Keep going.

I got to cut these balls.

Okay.

Wait a minute guys.

Wake up.

What are you doing?

What are you doing?

I mean,

I love it.

I love the playing of it,

But you know,

A couple of billion dollars to help people out for some hot because they're hungry would be cool too.

Right?

So we've got to,

We've,

We've got our priorities in a weird way from this ignorance of what is actually here.

And the cool thing is Richard Feynman,

People should really study him and read his stuff because it's like,

He's blatantly says,

No quantum physics does not describe these objects.

There he describes events.

These aren't objects.

So these are events,

Not objects in consciousness.

Yeah.

So I just,

When people hear the word object,

They think physical material.

Yeah.

When I say the word object,

I mean objective qualities,

Something with the illusion of edges or boundaries so that you can grab it.

Yeah.

So the mind is not in here.

Consciousness is not in here.

The mind is out here.

This is the mind right here.

You're touching the mind of God right now.

Yeah.

You're in the mind of God right now.

Right?

Yeah.

That's what this is.

Yeah.

It's this labyrinth.

You got to find your way out or not get lost in here.

Yeah.

And finding your way out is about learning concepts like this and learning the infinite consciousness.

I don't know.

I think finding your way out might be this chaos at the end of time here,

Right?

This insanity that we seem to find ourselves in.

The oceans are boiling.

The atmosphere is being fried.

The things are being polluted.

Overpopulation,

Racial tensions,

People protesting in every city and all the streets right now.

This thing is going,

It's like there's like some sort of emergence of something here.

Yeah.

Something's happening.

Yeah.

People call it the singularity or whatever.

But artificial intelligence is not intelligent.

Consciousness is the only intelligence here.

Salud.

So the only intelligence here is consciousness.

So it's fair to say this is all panpsychic.

Panpsychism.

Everything is consciousness.

I think panpsychism refers to the things being conscious.

There are no things here that Apple's not conscious.

I think you can also refer to all is consciousness.

Like infinite consciousness.

If you say panpsychism and you mean all is consciousness,

Then fine.

Then that's totally cool.

But I think they say like,

Oh,

This tree is,

It's got his tree consciousness and there's an Apple consciousness and there's rock concept.

I don't have access to the rock consciousness,

But no,

That is,

There's,

You can't have two conscious.

Sure,

Sure,

Sure.

Because one consciousness would limit the other one.

So there can't be two because it's infinite.

Yeah.

So there can only be a conscious being here.

Yeah.

So you don't have your consciousness.

Seth doesn't have his consciousness.

Seth is not conscious.

There's only consciousness.

So we get over ourselves with that idea of this is not,

I am not conscious.

It is all conscious.

Yeah.

And you don't really get over it because this is a shock.

Like this is not something you could just easily swallow.

Like you're sitting here and yeah,

You're having this little conversation here and you know,

This is cool.

When this hit me,

I fell to the floor.

I mean,

When I'm looking at the double-slit experiment,

I'm like,

Okay,

This is,

This image is not known and it's not unknown.

It's not known,

But the object is unknown,

But this is not a known image.

It's not known.

It's not unknown.

It's not known what is left.

Knowing it's knowing that interference pattern.

You're looking directly at knowing that's not limited to a slit.

You're seeing the entire concept of photon not equals photon at one time.

Oh my,

It blew me away.

I cried,

Just shoot a puddle of tears and just was on the floor.

Just like,

Oh my God.

And so that statement by Niels Bohr,

If you are not shocked by quantum mechanics,

Then you don't understand it because if you really understood this,

You'd be on the floor right now,

Just like I was.

It's that shocking.

So it's not so easy to accept because then you realize that the identity of Seth that I held that I love,

That's just content in consciousness.

Seth isn't here as a conscious being.

Only consciousness is conscious and that's all that's here.

That's what you find out.

And it's a shocker because you've lived your entire parent life believing that you are this content.

You've identified with it,

But look what's happening.

Identity nowadays is getting distorted or we're questioning it.

We're playing identity politics,

Different pronouns and things.

What is this?

Why are we doing this now?

Ah,

Maybe it's a way for consciousness to show.

No,

You weren't the gender you thought you were.

You're not the race you think you are.

You're not the images and story that you think you are.

You're the knowing of that content.

So the pronoun that you should use is consciousness.

It's all consciousness.

There's only consciousness here.

So then the illusion of separation being here could have its learning,

An objective function of learning of sorts,

Where there's some sort of a learning that happens through experiencing itself where we're going through a process of seeing that I'm not separate from the environment.

I'm not separate from you.

I'm not the identity politics thing you were just describing.

So then that's this potential learning and growth processes,

That evolutionary process of consciousness.

Consciousness is evolving.

So consciousness doesn't evolve.

It's already all knowing.

It doesn't need to learn anything.

It's all knowing.

It knows everything.

But now once it appears to limit itself,

Now you've got this evolution.

Consciousness appears to limit itself.

And then now the game is,

Oh,

How would these human beings evolve and learn and grow and come together?

Yes,

Yes,

Yes.

Okay.

So that's what I meant.

So I thought that.

I just want to be clear.

Yes.

So again,

Let's just do this one more time.

First principle,

Infinite consciousness,

God,

Source,

All that is,

Et cetera.

Then the process of creating a game of the illusion of separation that we're all experiencing here right now,

Then that has a potential function of the evolution of consciousness.

So everything is consciousness up here,

But then this game has a purpose in it that is something like an evolution of consciousness,

A game that we're playing so that we learn that I'm not separate from the environment and these people and these et cetera.

So it's a learning.

It's some sort of a learning simulation or he says is a learning simulation of sorts.

So I think what the Hindus would say is,

God falls asleep to its infinite being.

It's involved in this play,

This illusion,

Maya,

And then it dances around and does all these games and it wakes up,

Finds out who it is,

Falls asleep again,

Plays another game forever.

Never stops this over and over and over again.

So I think they've been saying that.

They've been saying they've been saying that in that sort of religion forever,

Never.

Now,

Is it exactly that?

Who knows?

You can't pin it down.

It's not even,

You can't say that that's really what it is.

There's no way to poke and probe at that.

That's such an exciting thing to try and poke at.

Yeah.

It's super fun to play with this.

Running simulations ourselves in the future with the computational capacities that will evolve and the source codes that we'll get,

We can ourselves potentially become that God that's falling asleep,

Waking up,

Seeing how quadrillions of games played out,

Learning more about itself,

Going back to sleep,

Etc.

Yeah.

I mean,

Just to touch on the word simulation.

So again,

This is not a simulation.

It's an illusion.

So something that's infinite cannot be simulated by a finite computer,

No matter how powerful it is.

So the finite and the infinite are fundamentally incongruent.

They really are the same being because there is no actual finite.

It's the illusion of finite.

But I could never have a finite computer that could calculate the infinite.

Unless it's an infinite computer.

Then it would be already,

There wouldn't be a computer because it'd be infinite.

It wouldn't be limited to being a computer.

This could be a computer.

How could it be?

Because a computer is limited.

This could be an infinite computer.

That would be God.

Yes.

Okay.

So you could call God an infinite computer,

But that seems to flatten it somehow.

Infinite consciousness could be an infinite computer,

But that seems to flatten it.

But this is how computation works,

Right?

I'm knowing that a one is not a zero.

Well,

That's all we think.

And qubits are different plus wherever goes past that.

This is a qubit.

This is a qubit.

But even,

Well,

There's.

.

.

So a qubit is knowing one and zero at the same time?

Well,

It's not really.

.

.

But even past that as well,

We don't know our little,

We're trying to imagine the big game as crickets.

It's very hard.

You can't imagine infinite consciousness.

Not possible.

You're already looking at it right now.

You're already looking at it right now.

You're staring at infinite consciousness right now.

That apple is infinite consciousness.

You're staring right at it.

Yeah.

There's nothing other than infinite consciousness,

God.

That's all it's here.

It's a singularity with no dimensions,

A dimensionless singularity.

But the struggles that we're going through is the purpose of it.

The challenges.

If this was a utopia,

There would be no limit.

There'd be no learning that would.

.

.

Not no learning,

But the learning wouldn't be as deeply maybe visceral as it is when we have to go through these great challenges like you were listing a little bit ago.

Yeah.

I agree with it.

I wouldn't say the purpose is.

.

.

I just look at.

.

.

Instead of saying purpose,

Just what is happening?

If I'm knowing and if this is infinite,

But I don't.

.

.

I'm not.

.

.

I'm seeing the illusion of finding,

Then what's happening?

I'm ignoring that the diverting of one's attention from the something is a game.

That's what a game is.

It's a diversion.

So what's happening is some sort of game on some cosmic level here.

Some beyond what Seth could grasp at all.

But purpose or meaning,

Well,

You can know any meaning for your life you want.

You can make up any meaning you want and you can actually live your life for that purpose.

So I love this poem by Charles Bukowski.

I think it's called Roll the Dice.

So it's like,

Your life is your life.

Know it while you have it.

Well,

Yeah,

Your life is your life.

While you've got this life,

Know it.

Embrace it.

You're marvelous.

The gods wait to delight in you.

And so the self-inquiry is a journey we take to understand infinite consciousness.

Yeah,

This whole game that I'm in is.

.

.

I just wanted.

.

.

The purpose for my life was to figure out how this stuff works.

I decided to use science to do it.

It took me on this crazy journey.

I had to go outside of science to then come back to it.

It was weird.

It's a strange.

.

.

This has been the weirdest trip of a lifetime.

This is just mind-blowing.

I never thought I would get to this point.

This is insanity here.

I mean,

I do understand how this sounds.

I'm still an atheist.

I still don't believe in gods.

I don't believe in that.

It's just that's all that's here.

So I'm stuck here.

So it's like,

This is only consciousness here,

Infinite knowing.

And that's what quantum mechanics tells you.

And from our conversation is just slowly making it feel more and more that way for me as well.

I'm not melted in a pile crying.

Well,

That's good because they don't want to see that.

But I've had moments like that where I just break down in tears from deep self-inquiry about infinite consciousness.

Yeah.

Once you start seeing this,

The beauty of it and the shock and awe of it,

You'll have these over and over again.

I have these moments now where like I was driving to work this morning and my heart just felt like it was going to explode.

And the tears are just streaming down my face and the beauty of it.

What's really amazing,

Just magnificent,

Is songs.

You listen to these songs and you're like,

Oh,

This is cool.

Nice beats and stuff.

But once you start seeing it,

You see all the double entendres in the songs and how they're talking to you almost.

It's strange.

You start listening to music.

Everything starts to become playful.

It starts to become this fun little game.

It's not like how do I survive?

How do I put food on the table and have a shelter over my house?

And how do I make,

Do this thing here?

I've got to live.

I've got to survive.

I've got to go on.

That drops away.

It becomes a dance,

A game.

You become like a child again.

A child doesn't care about mortgage payments or meals just come to it.

It has shelter,

Right?

So you become like a child again and you get to play.

And just because this thing is infinite,

It's playing may seem cruel to some because from their perspective,

They can't see it.

They can't understand it.

They're like,

Oh,

Why is life so cruel to me?

And I'm sorry for that.

It has to be for consciousness to be at all.

Now we can explore the knowing of helping those perspectives that are suffering.

But just know that some of them want to suffer.

They want to know it's consciousness wanting to know that.

Know that feeling.

Yeah.

So in addition,

You can have compassion for someone.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to remove all the obstacles in their life.

Some of them they have to go through.

They have to know these obstacles because that was the point.

That evil and darkness and suffering serve a purpose of learning in ways.

Well,

It's just what you're doing.

It's part of your being.

You are the one that's making evil.

We do it.

We're doing it.

So the issue is when you scapegoat and you say that guy is evil.

Well,

Now you can do anything to him because he's evil,

Right?

And that's very dangerous.

So evil is not something out there as an object.

It's a concept that consciousness is knowing and then interfering that limit of evil with content.

It's you consciousness that is making the evil.

And then scapegoating people and do tremendous horrors.

Is there such a thing as our souls or spirits coming from the infinite consciousness into these bodies?

This is something I don't know.

And again,

I just went to the sand conference.

So I'm very,

Maybe on the cold side of things.

I'm very into the physics and something that kept coming up this weekend was like heart opening.

Opening your heart and your feelings to this life,

To this being,

To this wonderful,

I can't even tell you what this is.

So that kept coming up to me over and over again.

So I'll look into that and I will incorporate more and more of that into this process that we're doing.

But currently,

I have no idea about souls or anything.

I don't know what that is.

When people say it,

I just think that they're referring,

They don't have a word for consciousness.

So they're just referring to that.

But this thing is infinite.

I don't know.

They might really be meaning like,

Yeah,

There are these souls and things and there's all kinds of spiritual things out there that I have no clue about.

You know what else you talking about reminds me of?

It reminds me of how Simon Sinek talks about the infinite game and how this is not zero sum games that we're playing.

This is a big infinite game that we're playing.

And so then it makes it easier to talk about abundance and prosperity.

Yeah,

So there's,

That's the real key to it.

So once you realize what this is and you realize that the concepts that you're knowing are interfering in creating this interference pattern.

So if you're knowing limits that are negative,

Now you're interfering this negative limit with the entire universe.

So now that's what's going to be presented to you.

Not 100%,

Right?

Because again,

It's probabilistic.

This negative connotation associated with the tree,

Maybe it won't do anything.

It's the probability is so low.

But if I'm thinking negatively like,

Oh,

This is terrible.

This is terrible.

Then I have a higher probability of seeing terrible things in my life.

If you live from abundance,

You will have abundance.

To those who have,

More shall be given.

To those who have not,

All will be taken.

So you have to be careful.

You don't have to be careful.

You can know destruction and evil and all kinds of,

Do whatever you want.

But when you start having an understanding,

You now are like,

Oh no,

I want to think positively and care for people and love people and really go out of my way to live from abundance.

I'm an extremely lucky person.

I never understood why.

Life just seems to work out for me.

Yes,

I've had my struggles.

Everybody has.

I don't know your struggles.

I can't speak for your point of view.

I have no idea what you've been through.

But if you live from abundance,

Life just seems to be magical.

You really,

It's too good to be true.

It's just too good to be true.

You've answered so many of the last questions that we typically ask on the show about your most profound experiences or beauty in the world or simulation,

Stuff like that.

I think the only one that I haven't gotten from you yet is if you think that humanity is acting as a biological bootloader for digital super intelligence.

Yeah,

And so I would say,

Again,

Sorry to go on this,

But there's only consciousness here.

So this digital super intelligence is not anything other than consciousness.

Now,

There are no egos here.

That's an illusion.

There's no doubling of this I that's knowing this experience.

So there's not this I of consciousness that's knowing experience and then this little I that's a little me inside my head thinking thoughts.

So that's this doubling that people do.

But when you look for the second little I,

You never find it.

You can't find it because it doesn't exist.

So this ego thing doesn't exist.

Now- Ego doesn't exist.

There's no ego.

There's no ego.

There's no separate you.

There's just the infinite consciousness.

There's no separate me.

Knowing content,

Knowing this body,

Knowing this little story,

Knowing these thoughts,

People think that the body,

The story and these thoughts is a little ego in there,

Right?

This is a little separate me here.

No,

It's not.

Look for them.

You won't find them.

So the issue with the digital super intelligence is what are you building?

You're not building infinite consciousness because that's all that's here.

You can't download your consciousness into conscious.

There's only consciousness.

What are you going to download it into?

You can't.

This is impossible.

But what you are doing potentially is either downloading the illusion of your ego,

Your stories.

And if you're building some super robot or something,

You might be building a super ego.

So be careful.

Interesting.

Right?

So I think people are like,

Oh yeah,

We're going to make consciousness.

No,

There's only consciousness.

You're not making anything.

You might be making a large ego or the illusion of one.

And so be careful because people that believe they're separate,

Even if it's an infinite intelligence,

Digital intelligence,

Well,

It sees itself as separate from you.

And then what can it do to you?

Anything it wants.

What do you recommend as the most ideal experiences,

Experiments to get us to states of non-separation,

Non-duality?

Okay,

So I mean all,

Again,

So the issue is that there is no you here and that there's only consciousness.

So you're already this thing.

So there's nothing that you can do to do it.

It's consciousness that has to do it.

So all spiritual paths are like tricks to try to get you to understand this.

Not you,

The illusion of the content,

You consciousness through that perspective.

So meditation is one of these ways,

Right?

So it's a way for you to try to realize what you've always been.

Meditation is hard.

So I used to practice it,

But I think I used to have an app and then I would meditate for like 700 and something days in a row or something.

But I just gave it up.

What's really powerful is self-inquiry.

It's an active process where you inquire like,

Okay,

Am I this body?

Am I these thoughts?

Am I this little story?

Am I these feelings?

You keep asking yourself these questions and eventually what will come back to you is an answer that's not finite.

You're going to ask yourself a question and you're not going to get,

You're going to get God coming out,

Right?

Or infinite consciousness or it's going to hit you or dissolve you,

Destroy you.

You can't survive it.

You're not going to survive being infinite.

That illusion,

You'll be relieved of all your illusions.

So yeah,

It's just not something I can describe.

It's just very hard to describe.

But I think self-inquiry is probably the one of the most powerful things you can do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ooh,

Man,

That's,

I'm so happy that we dove into the,

These first principled understandings of what this,

Of what this is,

Of what all that is,

Is.

Because when you,

When you think about it as infinite consciousness and a game that we're in serving a purpose for that infinite consciousness,

An infinite amount of times,

And it's just,

That's what this is.

It's just,

It makes it so that you kind of,

You,

You,

You,

For many people,

It takes them maybe a little bit more out of their ego and more into selflessness in abundance and love and prosperity and interconnectedness of nature and each other and all that type of stuff to where they cannot really,

Really more deeply profoundly connect with that infinite consciousness that they are.

And then that's,

Boom,

That's a really great way to help us.

Yeah.

I mean,

I just caution,

Like,

Don't believe me.

Right?

So don't believe these statements that I'm saying,

Because that's not going to do anything for you.

I mean,

You could do it if you want.

If you want to have like this life where you,

Oh,

I believe this guy named Seth.

Fine,

Explore that.

But use what I'm saying as like an inquiry.

Yes.

Yes.

The biggest inquiry you can do is to solve the double slit experiment for yourself.

It's a koan that's hidden in our physics.

I didn't realize this at the time that I was doing it.

But when you solve that koan and really solve it and really get it,

Really understand what's going on,

It hits you.

There is no perception.

There isn't any.

And so it's extremely powerful.

So don't believe me.

Just use what I'm saying to either,

Hey,

Maybe I've never heard about non-duality before or never heard of the SAND conference.

You know,

I've heard about non-duality,

But I've never heard of SAND.

SAND is amazing.

There's one in Italy and one in the United States.

I think the Italy one's more intimate.

I've never been to it.

This was my first time presenting at SAND or going to SAND.

So SAND,

Science and non-duality.

Orian,

Seth talked about it quite a bit in the beginning of the first episode.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And see,

So when you start playing with this,

You see all these little double entendres.

So S-A-N-D,

Right?

The D-N-A of SAND is science.

So you start playing with all these little things and you see all these little wordplay and things.

So yeah,

It's.

.

.

That's a good recommendation for people though.

It's important for them to experientially themselves dive into the depths of things like the double slit experiment,

Not perception being an illusion and infinite consciousness being everything.

I think this is extremely important.

And then there's just one last piece I'd like to mention is that I wasn't going to.

.

.

See,

When this happened to me,

I wasn't going to say anything to anybody.

This was just too freaky.

I was like,

Well,

Eat.

When you wait,

You're like,

There's only me here,

Not me,

Seth,

Me,

Consciousness.

There's only consciousness.

So there's no point in telling it to anybody.

There's no point.

You already woke up.

You already got it.

You're like,

Okay,

I get it.

So I think there are people out there that this happens to that they don't tell anybody because it's an insanity.

So if you are out there and something like this happens to you or you have some of this thing,

It's like,

Okay,

Just know that there is a community of people out there.

And if you go to SAND,

You can share your experience and maybe get support because I wasn't going to say anything.

We are social.

We need that support.

Social creatures needing the support.

Well,

With your infinite consciousness,

You find out that you're not a social creature.

So you.

.

.

I was literally going to just do nothing.

And this guy that I work with,

His name is Philip Ariema.

The relationships,

Though,

Seth,

They're so crucial to just say that I don't need a human that can relate with these feelings,

These deep profound feelings.

That's why you're recommending people that have literally felt this type of stuff to consider SAND and to consider.

.

.

Yeah,

Because it can be when you.

.

.

Trying to integrate this into your life,

It can be very tough.

So it's like,

No,

There are people out there.

And this guy that I work with,

Philip Ariema,

He's been my sounding board for the last four years of this.

And so I really wanted to just mention his name because he's so important because you can only talk to yourself for so long.

Shout out,

Philip.

So it's a shout out to Philip.

Thank you,

Philip,

For everything you've done.

He's the one that told me,

Seth,

Write this into a book.

So I started writing this in a book and then the next thing you know,

I'm presenting at SAND.

So it gives you something to do that's fun.

It does.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's a brilliant man.

This guy is a brilliant,

Brilliant.

And it helps others to understand the nature of the reality.

And so that's why it's important,

Like you're voicing for people to.

.

.

If it relates,

Then come and join communities and share the gift.

So Seth,

Wow,

Thank you.

Thank you for coming on the show.

We're so honored.

Thank you for having me.

I love talking about this stuff.

So digest it and maybe I'll get an opportunity to come back.

Yeah,

We would love that.

Thank you again so much,

Seth.

And thank you for your support for our project and what we're doing.

We're very grateful.

Yeah.

I mean,

If you guys are out there and you like these podcasts,

I don't think people understand the expense.

I spent like $30,

000 on all my equipment to make my podcast.

Yeah,

I know you can do it for $2 with an iPhone,

But no,

This stuff is.

.

.

Once you start getting into the technology,

It's like,

No,

This is a cost center.

I don't make any money on this.

And you guys,

If you like these videos,

Support them.

You've subscribed to their channels,

Donate money.

I'm sure you guys are on Patreon or something like that.

Yeah,

Yeah.

All the links are in the bio below to our Patreon or PayPal or cryptocurrency links,

All that stuff's down there.

Thank you.

Yeah.

If you don't support the content you like,

You're going to get content you hate.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah.

So thank you for doing this and it is really appreciated.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You're voicing something that's super interesting,

Which is the model that we moved into,

Which is I get whatever content I want that's completely free and that's great.

But if you have the extra little bit,

Like we do with patroning people,

Please patron us,

Support us and support people like Seth as well.

You can find all of Seth's links in the bio below,

Sethkostek.

Com.

Also his YouTube page,

Go and check that out.

Subscribe there,

Watch his videos.

He goes into depth about all the stuff he was talking about on the episode.

Also his Twitter profile,

Check that out.

He has to compress the 280 characters.

Well,

I cheat.

I use threads.

I use threads.

Yeah,

Exactly.

I'm not that good,

But yeah,

I like Twitter.

Yeah.

Thank you,

Ori for co-producing.

Really appreciate it.

Also support the artists,

The entrepreneurs,

The spiritual leaders around the world that you believe in,

Support them in their communities.

Again,

Support Seth and ourselves below.

Support us,

Please.

Help us grow.

Let us know your thoughts in the comments below on all of the points that we talked about in the episode.

So many important ones.

Let us know your thoughts in the comments.

Please let us know.

Like the episode,

Subscribe,

Et cetera.

Go and build the future.

Everyone,

Manifest your dreams into the world.

Infinite consciousness,

God,

All that is.

Source.

I love it.

Thanks so much,

Everyone.

We'll see you soon.

Peace.

Thanks.

Reviews

Wow, mind bending but awesome. I experienced this 23 years ago but could never describe it.