Taking The Butterflies Out Of Grief With Richard Pryor

Just six weeks after a family vacation, Richard Pryor received word that his 27-year-old son, Richie, died in his sleep. For the next year or two, Richard was caught in what he refers to as the "loop of grief," watching videos of his son and trying to fix the griefs of the people around him. We're talking about taking the butterflies and rainbows out of grief, taking the initiative to go to therapy as a grieving man, and what happens when people think they possess the rights to your grief.

Transcript

Richie welcome to coming back.

I am delighted to have you here to share your story of loss But also your story of coming back if you could please whenever you're ready share your story with us today Well,

Thank you so much Shelby for having me on the show So my story of loss back in 2015 My wife and I and two boys Richie and Matthew went on a 25th wedding anniversary anniversary that renewed our vows in Hawaii and May 26th of 2015 Amazing time amazing trip.

We just had built so many memories there Little did we know six weeks later.

We would come home and we lose one of our sons and And so we got home from our trip and you know things went along just how they how they were we had a great Father's Day and then on the evening of July 4th my son had went out with his friends and my other son to a party and The next day my son wasn't was my oldest son Richie wasn't responded to any calls or texts so my youngest son went over his house to check on him and He found him passed away in asleep Yeah,

And my wife and I got the call and We just we couldn't believe it,

You know,

There was something wrong and I'll just I'll never forget that that day and my wife screaming and that's just We didn't know we didn't know what was going on we couldn't believe what was going on and from that point on the next several months to year and a half two years was Was pretty much a lot.

We were lost,

You know,

We were going through life and in shock for most of the time and We just we couldn't find a way out We just stuck in the grief And And We were kind of feeding off each other So we weren't kind of moving forward.

We were kind of kind of sit and talk about the past Richie and how bad we missed him out Our piece of a heart was taught torn out about torn out without a moment's notice,

But no notice no goodbyes And we kind of stayed that way for a long time a long time everyday crying reminiscing the triggers of grief I Want to explore this idea of Stuckness,

This is something that's Started coming up as a word to describe my own grief where I was but then there's this idea of being stuck together Like literally stuck together Like literally stuck together in the same place,

But also being in a place of stuckness as a group and I wonder You know a lot of the world looks at this this idea of being stuck and sees it as a bad thing But I wonder if Being in a place of stuckness,

Especially after the loss of your son was like this is the opportunity or the opening that we have To grieve together cry together sit together be together and for as much as it feels like this cyclical I'm going deeper and deeper and marinating in this I Don't know.

I think a lot of processing happens there as well.

Our brains are literally integrating Holy crap.

This is what just happened.

Yes Yes,

Yes.

Yes.

I Really?

I really never thought of it that way and put that positive spin on it,

Which I real I love Yeah,

We were together and we were just processing it together But I believe you know,

That was great in the beginning But as as time moved on We weren't moving forward if you know what?

We weren't moving forward.

We were kind of caught in this loop and to call it a loop of grief Where we were doing the same things like the movie Groundhog Day We were doing the same thing every day and we weren't changing anything to help us start healing Yeah,

I want to ask like what was it That kind of opened your eyes to wow,

I haven't done anything different in weeks months So it was it was so really surrounded I would come home My wife would come home we get together and we would just Drink and cry drink and cry drink and cry and it got to a point where it's like,

Okay I'm bringing so and then we come to the point where I had a decent day Like maybe I smiled that day and I would come home and she would be you know at a negative 10 on the grief scale really depressed and I would bring my down myself down to her level and vice versa So she may be having a somewhat decent day Maybe have a little bit of happiness and I would come in and say hey I heard a song on the radio and I would just pound her back down into the ground So we were keeping ourselves down If that makes sense,

It does and I get this visual instantly of Like two people trying to carry a really heavy rock together and then they just keep passing it back and forth And that's what we were doing and we were just trying to keep it going Perfect analogy and that's what we were doing And it's like nobody was there to say Because I go I go through this in my book.

Nobody was there to say hey you guys aren't helping yourself at all By doing this and this went on for about almost over a year year and a half You're gonna hop that one on To the point where I started doing things that made me uncomfortable So what I did is I signed up for a seminar that was totally out of character for me I spent a lot of money and The presenter said two things What you focus on in the meaning you give things is how?

You live your life and That struck me in that moment is like,

Okay.

What was I focusing on?

I was focusing on all the bad things I put away all those beautiful memories.

I had my son for 27 years Not a lot of parents can say that when they lose children young,

You know That they don't have that that opportunity that gift.

So I was focusing on all the negative stuff and Then the meaning I was given it was home.

I God You know,

Look what God did to me,

You know I must have did something bad in this world bad in a previous life to have deserve this.

I must have deserved this So once I started rethinking the focus and the meaning I had and flipped it around saying Okay,

Instead of focusing on me and what's hurting me How can I focus on something higher a higher a higher calling,

You know?

How can I focus on the good things like oh my god 27 years we travel the world we had so much fun together so much fun and As soon as I started flipping that slowly one step at a time.

I started changing I started changing myself and I started getting stronger and Then the focus came when I said let me focus focus on not me anymore because I was being selfish I was focusing on me poor me poor me.

I started thinking about my wife and my other son more and Then the meaning I started to focus on Then the meaning the meaning was the key because the meaning I was given it was just He died and that's it.

I wasn't given any any any thought to it.

And then I said to myself,

Wait a minute What about if the meaning is that I'm supposed to be doing something really important with this?

And that's when I said to myself the meaning is I'm supposed to use my son's loss as a tool as a gift to go out and Help others that are struggling with the grief and That's kind of how I made that that transition and from there.

It just it just started snowballing and I guess the biggest thing that I did as I was going through this this change I like to call it a change of identity that we go to when we go through because I became a new person You know at on this journey,

I wasn't person that I was a day before or even you know Before my set test I was I was turning into this it's different person and we had different beliefs and you know,

I got this feeling that I really wanted to help others it was a burning burning feeling and then I thought to myself I can't keep coming home to my wife and And us doing this thing so I reached out and did what men never do Not many men that I know anyway is that I went and found out I found help for myself.

I went in front of therapist There's so much that's coming up for me here related to Like grief myths to previous episodes of coming back the thing that's coming up the most clearly as an episode We did I think back in season two of coming back and the title of the episode It was with Harriet Cabeli and the title of the episode was literally from why me to a why to live for and it This question of what if what if his life had meaning what if I'm supposed to use this as a tool?

What if this can propel me forward instead of sink me backwards like the voice of what if and this is something I use with My coaching clients as well.

What if is like we can use it as a really good friend to us or what if can be our Absolute worst enemy and it's interesting That you went to this seminar So out of character for you heard this one idea and you're like this is what's gonna get the ball rolling and maybe you didn't Even know it like in the moment but as you started to follow it and this concept that we've spoken about on previous podcasts of Grief being like an involuntary scavenger hunt We are constantly picking things up and putting things down and does this fit me more and you kind of start to follow the trail Into the woods and see does this fit my new life?

Is is such a great visual for this because you like you went to a seminar one time heard this one idea and all of A sudden it was the I get the this visual of like the Indiana Jones booby trap that big rock It just starts rolling and coming towards you and you can't even stop it Like that's what kicks off that momentum,

But it's something so teeny tiny In the very beginning days of coming back I used to ask people what their seed was like what the small teenies like tiny tiny voice Idea was that started that road to coming back and this is just such a perfect visual of it and I literally wrote that down what you focus on and the meeting that you give your life and what's interesting about this is that This is something that comes up with grievers.

Just like people outside of us can't tell us what the meaning is it's insulting when they do and It's really hard because so many people around us like even if they get there before us Even if we end up coming to the same conclusions if they tell it to us,

It doesn't resonate But if we get there ourselves,

You're like I've decided on my own meeting then it's something that We've autonomously chosen in our grief I Agree 100% and I think that comes from for the most part from us as human beings want to fix everything Yeah You know what?

I mean?

Yeah Fixing it's like I wanted to fix,

You know before as I was going through before I went to that seminar I was like I needed a fix as a husband as a man.

I needed a fix my wife I needed to fix my son and I Didn't understand that time that I couldn't fix them.

The only way they would fix everything is if my son came back to life yeah,

And and until I realized that it just it it didn't make sense and I was just stirring in my own stuff it was just incredible how how as men were raised to To hide our feelings and hide our emotions and I remember that doing that to my kids when they were younger They fell down.

Hey,

Just get up and brush it off.

It'll be alright So when we when we go through this,

You know on this journey of grief as a man it's like nobody wants to cry or or share their Their heartaches their anger their frustrations with anybody else They want to keep it inside and if the only person I want to share with this is their spouse That's not helping anyone.

I don't believe Well,

Yeah,

And it goes back to that visual.

I'm gonna pass you the heavy rock and then you can pass back to me And I'm laughing but oh my gosh to be in this process with a spouse or with a loved one Someone that's intimately close to you is really exhausting It's like I just had the big heavy rock and now you're gonna hand it back to me like I'm and there's there's things like There's things like resentment that come in there's exhaustion.

There's like aren't we supposed to do something with this besides pass it back and forth to each other?

And I'm so curious about this idea that you speak of of Being a man who's grieving and wanting to be a fixer because I think society in general is made up of fixers Especially for things that don't feel good like the three ads the mad bad and sad.

We just want to fix it but but especially as Someone who identifies as a male and a husband and a provider for your family or I should be able to fix this I taught my kids when they were little just like,

You know,

It doesn't hurt as much as you think it does You know dust off your shorts.

You're gonna be fine But it's not somehow that doesn't translate to grief and that's quite a revelation.

And so I'm wondering how you Reckoned with that former identity you talk about taking a new identity into being someone who not only seeks out therapy Which is kind of grief at an internal level but now as someone who does grief as a man so publicly Yeah,

It wasn't easy but the only way I could do this Shelby it is get my word out there on my message is To be public about it and and tell people about it because people don't want to talk about grief You know when I lost my son know everybody wants to run away,

You know,

As soon as they hear,

You know I lost a child.

It's like they run for the hills.

I don't know whether they think it's catchy or not But I saw it as that my wife Had our had our son Carried him for nine months He had a different relationship with him than I did and then my other son That was his brother.

They were best friends So he had a different relationship and then I had my own relationship with my son We were best friends.

He was my son We did so much good fun stuff together How can I think I can help somebody and fix somebody when I don't really understand their world?

I May know a little bit about it.

I may know a little bit Yeah,

They had a loss but I have no idea what's going on in between their ears So,

How can I think I can offer them solutions?

Like you said the person said to you that You know want to fix everything sad bad mad.

I Have no idea You know walking in my shoes Understanding my world what I'm going through because we all have different life experiences And how we were raised,

You know,

How we were brought up It's just it's impossible to know what somebody else is thinking especially when when you're dealing with the loss And that brings up something that that I don't know that I've ever phrased this way before but when people Tell us what to do with our grief or tell us what our grief means it's like they possess or think they possess the rights to our grief or to our experience and I've never phrased it that way before I'm getting chills right now because Just that notion of someone having the right the audacity the ownership over our Experience even better than we do and we're like we live in this body I'm living this life this experience like you said between my ears is mine.

So a lot of that Disarming that happens from the people around us or quote unquote what looks like support Is really people overstepping their bounds going somewhere where they have no right to go fixing things Yeah,

Yeah,

And I cover that in my book.

It's who's got your back.

I call it and that's Some people you're better off having in your life and some people you're better off having out of your life I know it's harsh to say but I found that Getting those people with that bad energy the people that were trying to tell me Oh one one of my best friends For 25 years told somebody else that it's been a year.

I should have been over it by now right Right.

So something like that hits you really deep.

It's like how could you even say something like that?

And I learned,

You know,

I found a better place by You know separating myself from those people now my world is it's amazing It's amazing.

I Want to get into your book because This is I mean,

This is even another process It's like first the seminar then therapy then public grief work and a book also on top of it And this is just getting your grief more and more into public spaces and your stories.

It's more and more vulnerable through each of these modalities and mediums,

So I Guess why a book what first of all,

But is the book?

The book is called warriors of life conquering grief and battling your way back to happiness So why the book well so at that same seminar I met my publisher so So that's something I gave me a lot of a lot of great gifts and why the book well,

I read so many books I'm looking at him right now I have like 30 books on my desk and I'm so I'm gonna be writing to each author and telling him how much How thankful I am for each one of their books because each one I took something from But what I wanted to give back to the world was a book that was not only a book It was a it was a workbook It gave them it gives the reader Some exercises to do at each end of each chapter and just help them on their journey and like I said I don't know what any I don't know what anybody else is thinking where they are in their journey And I'm not offering a silver bullet to fix it because that's impossible But I'm offering some some options some resources some life skills to use In order to help them maybe move a little bit forward Because when my wife and I when we lost Richie we had absolutely no resources after After the wake all the friends disappeared nobody called us We kind of left alone on our own little island and we had away five months for a hospice Parents bereavement group and that only lasted eight weeks So we were just like we were left it up to our own selves to try to move forward get ourselves out of that That grief and start start the healing process.

So that's kind of why I wrote the book Yeah,

It sounds like it's for that time when you feel like Wow,

I've been left on my own with this Yeah,

And you know thinking about it.

I didn't really realize that because the first year and a half I was The doctors were using me as a guinea pig for all kinds of antidepressants so on and so forth and in my drinking So it was like half of the time.

I didn't know whether I was coming whether I was going so I don't really know that point Knowing time where I thought that I Needed to write that book I Want to Ask about this concept too of like warriors of life battling your way back because a lot of Grief literature as many grief growers and listeners of the podcast will know has a lot of Butterflies and clouds and rainbows and like all this other stuff on the covers We're like we're gonna do battle with this thing,

Which is such a different energy than Making peace with loss which I mean has its time and place and granted I've had my own exploratory adventures with the softer side of grief,

But there's also this like I mean even going back to the the rock Allegory earlier of like there's this gritty get some dirt under your fingernails Activity that needs to happen with grief too,

And I think you've picked up on that Yeah,

And that's what it was Shelby.

I didn't I know and I've read all my books and look at it They all have butterflies and clouds rainbows and unicorns And pretty little cats no,

No cats but and I was just like saying that it was I felt you know when I was in the Trenches and the darkness of the grief,

You know that first year and a half that I was depressed angry sad Frustrated overwhelmed you name it.

I felt it And I just didn't want to even live anymore at some some days I didn't want to live anymore if I didn't get out of bed or for flame a plane fell out of the bed Or for flame a plane fell out of the sky and landed on me.

That wouldn't have been the worst thing So that's why I thought that there's no way that a butterfly is going to carry me out of this You went strong enough buddy Right I have to change my identity change my persona Become a superhero and do whatever it takes to get myself moving forward because I know,

You know when we're all stuck in this grief and it's it's so hard but But we still have to live I still in the reason I'm doing all this stuff because I want to make my son proud because I like to tell people I can have two conversations because I believe that I'll be connected with my son You know,

Whatever that is,

Wherever you want to call it in the next life the next realm heaven Whatever you want to call it.

I believe I'm gonna be with him again and I can have one of two conversations The first one would be Dad I gave you this opportunity and you blew it you wasted your life.

You were depressed Sad you made everybody else around you miserable and you didn't live a life worth living or two dad You did it You got the sign you got the message you kicked serious,

But you helped thousands and thousands of people Thousands and thousands of people get through their grief through their challenges in life And that's what I wanted for you And that's what gets it keeps them going every day that conversation that's like a serious Life mission right there.

Like that's a lot of religious texts will use the word charge like you've been charged with this Mission like that's what's coming up for me right now.

It's like this is even beyond Just you and your son like there's something even larger at work here see that that meaning that I talked about It's getting better and better as time goes on but that was kind of how I originally thought of that was that I'm going to see him again Someday,

And I want to make sure he's proud of me Because I would not want it to say dad.

You just wasted all that time there That kind of reminds me as you were first telling your story About taking this trip for your 25th wedding anniversary and the renewal of vows happened Right around this time.

We're recording this episode on may 28th And this trip happened around the 26th and then there's kind of this kick start of them six weeks later xyz.

So I wonder If you have a favorite memory that includes richie from that trip that you'd like to share with us here on the show Yeah Oh jeez,

There was so many of them But it was we just celebrated our wedding anniversary in new portmanteau island saturday And my face our facebook feeds shows all the pictures from you know Four years ago when we uh,

We renewed our vows I think you know the funniest thing was Just you know being on the beach all four of us And we were all dressed in blues and uh white white short shorts with the lays on us And just uh,

We were all holding hands and my wife says First of all,

You guys are going to pick me up And we're going to take a picture like that you three holding me and then we're all going to walk into the ocean together And those those memories really stuck with me and the pictures we have hanging on our wall right now big big frame framed It's like art and just looking at those pictures.

It just it puts a smile on our faces Makes us so happy that we did that that we had that opportunity and when I think about you know The focus when I talked about that that's the stuff I focus on now.

I don't focus on The loss I focus on the time that we had with him and those amazing memories and laughs we shared For those 27 years And I think that's such a validation Because oftentimes when somebody we love dies there's almost a compulsion to take them down off the walls Like they don't get a place anymore because they're not alive and i'm like no no leave them on the walls make a place for them Make them art.

I know yeah,

You know what shelby I We we didn't do that.

We we always wanted him front and center,

But there were people that they can't cope with that.

I mean They can't cope with that I mean if I had two or three hours like I could spend talking with you about this but like my wife can't um After richie passed I had just like two months before that.

I had taken all of our old You know vhs tapes and recordings when he was,

You know a baby and I had put them on digital So I would spend you know a whole weekend Sitting down in the basement watching those videos over and over crying and crying Looking through the books and I was surrounding myself with that stuff and my wife She said don't even I don't even want to see anything like that.

So like I said different people just Have different ways of processing But the one thing that I just I could never do is just forget about not seeing his picture his smile God,

That's just that would break my heart even more,

You know forgetting about him or doing something that would you know dishonor his memory that he didn't even exist You know what i'm saying?

Yeah,

Absolutely and it's something that um That you have permission to change your mind on too.

I know immediately after my mom died,

Uh,

I had Like I pretty much set up like a shrine for her on my dresser.

I had this um This picture in a frame with a hinge on it and so you could put two pictures in it and kind of made a v-shape When it set on the dresser um I had two pictures of her in there and then I had pictures for on my phone and at my computer and like all this other Stuff and I literally surrounded myself with things that were hers and it was kind of like this way to insulate myself and as i've gotten older moved into different spaces like she Remains but now I think i'm looking around my room right now as we're speaking.

I think I only have one picture of her And it's above my bed and it's kind of tucked away in a far corner So if you walk into my room,

You wouldn't notice it.

Whereas before she was like front and center And she was just there because I needed her to be there in that way that's right and that's right That's the only way we feel their presence is is seeing that picture I mean I do I do a lot of work with mediums And shamans so I I know he's with me.

I don't know whether other people believe that that's tough enough but I believe he's always with me and just having having a picture around just to look at and smile and It makes me feel good Yeah,

And that's I think what we're What we're chasing what we're after In grief is like if I can just slowly make a connect a collection of these things that make me feel good Maybe I can either drown out some of the pain or we can tip the scales a little bit Into our favor,

So we're not in these really really dark places carrying those big rocks again Yeah,

And you know what?

You know what?

I think about that I I it does it happens it takes time But I do think you have those moments where that big rock comes back Oh sure you're carrying it's like oh my god,

It's back and those you know those triggers and you don't know when it's coming Where it's coming from but if it hits you But what now I find is that I can get back to even very quickly As before it would take me god Days weeks,

You know if I had a trigger now,

It's you know,

Maybe an hour a day at the most You know if it's a really bad trigger like I lost a friend a couple of weeks ago 64 years old one of my best friends out of the blue and that was That brought back all the memories All the memories quickly Yeah,

And in those moments it's something where I have to look myself in the mirror and be like,

Of course you would feel this way of course the rock would come back and not even in like a mean or a spiteful way,

But like Yeah,

You're continuing to be alive and have the human experience of that of living and dying so like of course the triggers would come back and of course the big rock would come back and just like It's gone away before and so there has to be some bizarre measure of faith that it's gonna go away again It's so true and it's acknowledged Acknowledged in those emotions when they come up and not burying them and and trying to ignore them just say wow Yeah,

That was the trigger.

I'm sad right now and um just let it be and and let it pass it just But it's like you said it's being alive.

It's it's feeling those those emotions If you had one piece of wisdom that you could say to your grieving self like immediately after the loss of your son that Your grieving self could hear and absorb.

What would that be?

That's such a good question I would say Don't try to fix other people.

Yeah,

That's that's one thing i'm really taking taken away from this is that You can't fix it because it's The way you fix it would be for him to come back and that's not going to happen.

So let people be Let them process their grief.

Just let them know that They're there to support them and you love them and that's it And you don't have to be anything else either.

Yeah,

And that's one of the funniest things like my book I I recommend people that have family That have you know They have losses in their family that they read the book because it's some tips in there for them as well as to That's all we want is somebody to listen to us.

Just listen to me don't offer solutions Just give them a chance to do that.

I think that's a good thing.

I think that's a good thing I just think that there's someJane non-ofer intelligence.

Just listen to me don't offer solutions.

Just keep your mouth Quiet and just listen to me.

Let me talk.

Let me rant.

Let me vent And just say i'm here for you.

That's it Right?

Yeah.

Reviews

Very good to hear this talk, thank you.
Things I needed to hear, to confirm and to think about.