The One Who Wants To Awaken Is The Illusion

In this dharma talk, we look at how the spiritual path, which begins with such sincerity, often becomes another identity - another way the ego keeps itself going. We believe that to find ourselves, we have to go on this long journey and do a million different things simply to know what is always here, that which has never left us - this is the trap of awakening. If we're lucky, somewhere along the way, this will be pointed out to us so we can wake up to what has always been here.

Transcript

I'm going to start with a story, A story I have already told in the past. I'll often recycle the same stories, Just because I feel that stories are such a good way to bring home a point. And always the talk is maybe I'm kind of focusing on a little bit of a different aspect, But I always find the stories can can just really help bring our attention to something. So this is the story of Jonica, Who is a king. And Jonica is asleep in bed. And he's getting awoken by his one of his attendants and the attendants shaking him fiercely and saying, Wake up, Wake up, King, We're under attack. And so the king jumps out of bed, He puts on his clothes, Grabs his sword, Runs down through the palace, Finds his generals, They go off and try and defend the kingdom. And all day long, This this battle is raging. But Jonica's side is not doing very well. And in fact, To the point where Jonica himself gets captured. And he's brought before the the leader of the enemy. And he's down on his knees, And the leader of the enemy looks at him and he says, Look, You are a royal, You have royal blood, You are a royal being, I'm not going to kill you. But I am going to banish you from your kingdom. So leave your sword, Leave any jewels behind, Just kind of take barely the clothes on your back, And, And leave the kingdom. So, You know, With his head in his hands, Totally humiliated, Despair, Jonica leaves the kingdom. And for days, He's traveling through the forest. You know, Not really sure what he's doing. He's not used to looking after himself. So he's hungry, He's tired, He's cold. And eventually, He comes across a village. And as he's wandering through the village, He sees this line of people. And the people leaving the line are all leaving with a bowl of food. So he thinks, Great, I am starving. So he goes and gets in line for the food. And as he gets to the front of the line, The person serving the food says to him, He's like, Man, Like, It's just, There's nothing left. And Jonica's just begging. He's like, I am starving, Like, I will take the grizzle off the bottom of the pan, Whatever it is. And he's like, Okay, He kind of scrapes off the congealed rice at the bottom of the pan and, And hands it to Jonica in his bowl. And he's trembling. He's just like, I'm so hungry. And as he walks towards a tree to sit down and eat the food, This big bird comes swooping down, Throws the bowl out of his hands, The rice goes flying everywhere, Mixed in with the dirt and the dust, Unedible. And with this, Jonica just loses it. He falls to the ground. He's crying out, He's screaming, He just cannot believe what has become of his life. And then the next thing he knows, His attendant is shaking him, Wake up, Wake up, King. And he wakes up and he looks around. And he realizes he's back in the palace. And he's in his, His kingly bedroom and his attendants are getting him ready for the day. And he says to himself, Was that real? Or is this real? Was that real? Or is this real? And so everyone's kind of scratching their head a little bit concerned about Jonica. And, And all through the day, He keeps saying this, And he's unable to perform any of his kingly duties. And so his, His wife, The Queen, Getting really concerned, Sends out for a sage for Ashtavakra. And so Ashtavakra comes to the kingdom and he sees the king and he says, Jonica, Tell me what's going on. And he says, Oh, He said, I had this dream last night. I lost everything, The kingdom was under attack. And I was banished from the kingdom and I was starving and I was, I was cold and I was tired. And I just couldn't believe this had happened. And it was so real. And then I wake up and I'm back in the kingdom and back in the palace. And I'm a king again. And this feels so real. And I don't know which is real. And so Ashtavakra says, Tell me, King, Were you present in the dream? The king says, Yeah, I was present. He says, Okay, Are you present now? King says, Yeah, I'm present now. And Ashtavakra says, Okay, That which is present in both the dream and the waking, That is real. The rest is simply an appearance, Appearances happening, That there is something not a thing, Not a thing, But something that is always here, That the appearances are coming and going. But there is something that remains. And we know, When we're having the nighttime dream, How real it feels, When we're afraid in the dream, When we're embarrassed in the dream, When we're excited in the dream, When we're sad in the dream, When we're overwhelmed in the dream, Right? We know how real that feels. Right? But it is simply just an appearance, Different images appearing, Different sensations, Different feelings appearing and coming and going. And we know when we wake up, We recognize that was just an appearance. It's not reality. It was a dream. And we do a big sigh of relief. Phew, That was not reality. But then we immediately mistake and we take the daytime dream, Still a dream, We take this for reality. And yet this is just an appearance as well. The physics are different. Don't go jumping off a bridge. We can't fly in the daytime dream like we can in the nighttime dream. The physics are different. And in the daytime dream, Things seem a little more substantial than they do in the nighttime dream. And yet they are still just appearances. Every day, Thousands of people are born, Thousands, Hundreds, I don't know how many, Hundreds or thousands die. People that we know, That we love, Come into being and pass away, No longer here. We know this is our destiny. That we at one point didn't, You know, This, This Meredith wasn't always here. And this Meredith will not always be here. And everything that is appearing, The house, The car, The, The food, The laptops, Whatever it is, That's appearing is also coming into being interdependent, Interconnected, And going out of being, Simply appearances. And yet something remains through all of these things that are coming and going. There is something here that remains. And this is what we are looking for in spirituality. That we set off on this big quest, Looking outwards. It's out there somewhere, My true self, My higher self, My divine self. We make the mistake of naming it. And by doing that, Creating a greater sense of separation, It's something far off, It's something other than what I really am. But what we're looking for, We never left. It's like the wave saying, I'm looking for the ocean. You are the ocean. It's like the woman running around looking for her necklace, Going through all of the drawers, Looking under the sofa, Flipping up the cushions, Frantic looking for her necklace, Until someone says, Your necklace is right there on your neck. You touch it, Oh, It's here. It was here the whole time. Because all that is happening is that we have overlooked what was always here. We have simply overlooked it. And spirituality is the means, Not the end, The means by which we see this. It helps us unpack this. It helps us unpack the illusion, The sense of separateness, The suffering. It helps us to understand the impermanence of all things, The emptiness of all things, The unsatisfactoriness of all appearances. It's pointing us, It's saying, Look, It should be pointing us to say the necklace is right here. But the problem is that the path becomes the obstacle at some point. Because that which is seeking enlightenment is an appearance, Is an illusion. Because when I say, You know, I want to be enlightened, I want to be realized, I want to be conscious, That's just the ego. It's the separate self. The one that wants to awaken is the illusion. And by its very nature, It cannot awaken. Because in fact, If awakening were to happen, The ego wouldn't be there. It would be its extinction. And so what happens on the spiritual path, And I know I'm endlessly talking about this and trying to find other ways to point us to this, Because it is such a trap on the spiritual path. You know, We start making a new identity out of it. You know, Me as the seeker, Me as the spiritual person, Me as the meditator. And part of the trap in there is that we do, I mean, Relatively speaking, We feel a little better. We do, We all know this, Right? When we start meditating and practicing mindfulness, And we're doing compassion practices, Relatively speaking, We feel a bit better. But it's still the illusion. And so every time we sit to meditate, We think I'm meditating. And if I'm meditating, I can be a good meditator, I can be a bad meditator. My mind's not cooperating today. I'm being a bad meditator. I'm not a disciplined enough meditator. I need to be meditating earlier in the day. And so because we make this image out of it, This identity out of it, We make another appearance out of it. We keep reinforcing the illusion instead of seeing through it. And to sustain the illusion, We have to keep adding things on. Because it is an illusion, We have to keep giving it appearances. So we can give it appearances, We get on the spiritual treadmill, Right? And I've got to find the next book. Oh, This is the one everyone's talking about. This is the one that's going to give me all the information that I've been missing so far. The other thousand books didn't do it. But this is the one that's going to do it. This is the 10th mindfulness course, Right? Because now they're marketing it as easy mindfulness. I was practicing hard mindfulness. Oh, How dumb of me. Easy mindfulness. I need to sign up for this one now. Now I'm going to get it. Now I'm eventually going to get it. You know, I need to go on this retreat. I need to go on that one. Because we have to keep sustaining the illusion by adding more things on to it, Adding more things on to the identity. And the carrot, Right? It's just, I'm almost there. I'm almost there. It's always this belief that it's just the next thing, But you will never get there. You'll never get there. If we think, If we're using spirituality as the ends, Instead of the means, If we're using it as an identity, We will never get there. You will always just be a little bit out of reach. And you're just always needing to add more things on. And it's like when the Buddha said, You know, The Dharma is like using a raft to cross the river, Right? Once you've crossed the river with the raft, You wouldn't pick the raft up and put it on your back and keep carrying it around, Right? That it's just, It's a means to an end. Right? That you use it to help you get to the other side of the river, And then you leave them behind. That's not the end game. And quite possibly, They didn't write down all of the Buddha's statement, Because I would add on to it that what the Buddha would say is when you get to the other shore, What you would realize is that you never left the shore to begin with. Because the reality of which you are, You never left. It's this is not something that is far off from us. It's not something that's going to take lifetimes. It's not something that's, You know, Going to take eons and eons to become as a special person, Something like that. Right? Because of course, You know, Who do you think would say that? The ego, Right? And then it makes me think, Right, If I'm coming from my ego, And of course, I'm unworthy of all this. So of course, It's so far off there. Of course, I'll never get there to it. But we're all just, We're wearing the necklace. We all, The necklace never came off. We just need someone to point it out to us, That it's here. And so the practices are helpful. I don't, I say this all the time, I don't think that just do nothing is helpful. Right? I think, I think the appearances and the illusion and the delusions, The dream is so believable, So real to us, We've been so brainwashed, That yeah, We need the practices. We need the pointers, But we need to keep remembering the practices are a means, Not an end. If we, If we see them as the end point, We are still just trapped in the illusion. And I feel in my own, You know, In my own experience, The most powerful practice that we have that cuts right through the solution cuts right through the appearances is self-inquiry. It just, It shines a spotlight on it, It shines it in UV light and infrared light and every single possible light to show you there is nothing there. It is an appearance, Nothing substantial, Nothing solid. So when we, When we question and we ask, Who's meditating? Right? Who's seeking? Who's not getting it? Right? Who's afraid? Who's anxious? Who's over overwhelmed? Who is the owner of this thought? When we question in this way, We're using the appearance to again, Shine a light on itself, Right? Because the thoughts, You know, I'm meditating, You know, It implies that there is something solid independent here that is doing the activity instead of just meditating happening. It implies something solid and real. And so when we ask the question, The self-inquiry, It's not to get an answer. It's not to respond. It's to, It's to short circuit the ego. I can't compute this. And so in doing this, In short circuiting it, There's two things that can happen. One, You can short circuit it and it just silence, Just silence. You saw it and there's just silence. Right? You saw the appearance, Silence. It can't hold up under the scrutiny. And yet sometimes it can, Especially in the beginning, It can start defending. What do you mean? Who's meditating? I'm meditating. There's something right here meditating, Right? It tries to defend. The ego always tries to defend, Right? Defend itself, Prove itself. It's always doing that. So then you question again, Who's defending? Who's doing the defending? You keep shining the spotlight on it. You keep using the appearance to see that it is an appearance, Exposing that it is simply an appearance. And in its absence, Seeing what it is that remains, Seeing what it is that is always here because reality is not an appearance. Reality doesn't come and go. Appearances come and go. What you are always remains. It doesn't go away. And so I do think the practices are helpful. And I think, You know, Even for self-inquiry, We need mindfulness, Right? We need to know when we're getting lost in the illusion, Right? When we're getting caught up in something, Right? Oh, Oh, I'm lost. I need to be aware of that. I need some mindfulness to be aware of that, To even ask the question, Who's lost, Right? For it to really be able to, Again, To short circuit the ego in a way that it brings back, Ah, That's right, Just being. But also when there is just a certain amount of a strong emotion really coming up, The appearance can seem really real, Right? When there's something really embarrassing happening, Some failure happening, Something just, You know, That we go, Oh, Anything but this, Not this, This is real. We use the practices, Again, Again, Recognizing, Ah, I'm lost in the illusion, But the emotion is super powerful right now. It's really compelling. And so come in and feel, Right? Allow the feelings to be here like we talk about, You know, I know I talk about this all the time because I think this is incredibly powerful, Right? It's still part of the practice to breathe and feel, Oh, Embarrassment, Oh, Failure, You're here. Breathe deeply, Allow space for all that contraction happening in the body, You know, Bringing your attention back into what's real, Right? What's, Sorry, What's happening, What's happening, Right? The appearance of those feelings of what's happening. And then as they start to settle down, As you start to feel a little bit more relaxed, As the intensity of the emotion starts to dial back down, Then when we get to the investigative part, Ask yourself, Who was embarrassed? Who was overwhelmed? Who made a fool of themselves? To keep questioning it in a way that keeps bringing you back so that we want to get out of the grasping and the chasing. We know how easily when we get into mindfulness, We start grasping and chasing the calm feeling, The peaceful feeling. Oh, I just got to get out of this and I got to get into that, You know? And this is a way to just prevent that from happening when we get to that investigative part, Right? That we can say, Who is it that was upset? Look for it. Who is it that was upset? Either silence the mind or you'll start defending it. Who is it that's defending? Keep investigating this. Behind each of these thoughts, There's this implied being, Separate self, Ego, That this is happening too, But it is just a thought, A thought, An appearance coming into being and going out of being. And yet there's something here that remains, The being, Right? Where you rest in the being, Feeling, Smelling the roses of being, The peace of being, The peace that's always here in being. And so I would say, Don't throw away any of the practices. I think the practices are helpful. If it's loving kindness, If it's tonglen, If it's mindfulness meditation, If it's mantras, If it's open awareness, If it's, Sorry, I'm going to go back, If it's mantras, Sorry, If it's mantras, If it's mantras, Not mantras that are affirming something, That's just the ego. If it's a Sanskrit word, If it's om, Even om mani padme hum, Which does have a meaning, But you know, It's not, It's not, I am something, Right? You can't become something. You can't become what you already are. It's just the ego hiding again. It's just the ego hiding again. So being careful with mantras to not be affirming something. Even in fact, In my beginner's meditation course, I have five mantras in that. And Sue, I know you've done that course. They're all negating mantras. Peace is not chasing, Peace is not resisting, Peace is not comparing, Peace is not judging, Peace is not narrating, As a way to point people to say, You know, This is what peace isn't. I wouldn't be using this kind of terminology in a beginner's meditation course, But just to keep pointing to the peace. So being careful if you're using mantras not to make it something that's affirming. But whatever practice it is that you're doing, And all of these practices have a benefit, Right? You know, I go on and on about Tonglen. I think Tonglen is one of the most beautiful meditations, Right? But you can just, You can integrate some self-inquiry just again, Who's doing Tonglen? Who's doing Tonglen? Who did Tonglen? Right? Just as a way to ensure that we don't start to wrap ourselves up in it. I'm so compassionate, Instead of, Oh, Compassion arising, Right? We want to set those conditions, Right? So all of these practices, Super, Super helpful. But as you're sitting to meditate, Whatever practice you're doing, Who's meditating? Just to ask yourself, Who's meditating? Right? And especially because we find when we get into the meditation, It's like, Oh, The mind won't quiet. Ask whose mind won't quiet? Watch how quickly the mind will quiet, Right? When you start putting the spotlight on it. So you can use this. I find at least that, You know, When you mix self-inquiry with the other practices, They become incredibly powerful. And they prevent us from falling into the trap of believing that we are, That what these practices are doing is that we are becoming something. We're not becoming anything. You can't become what you already are, Right? And it's just to keep reminding us, To keep reminding us to, That it's here. It's always here. It's not there. It's not far away. It's not something separate from you. Don't let anyone tell you, Don't let anyone tell you that it's going to take you five lifetimes to do this, And it's going to take you decades to do that. That sets up, You know, We fall into that belief when we go, Oh, They said that, So that must be true. How can something that we already are be so, You know, Setting it up as something so far away from us? It's just more ego. It's something the ego would say. It's very safe. If it's going to take me lifetimes, It's very safe. It's a way it sustains itself. So we, You know, Again, I do feel like, And I apologize, Well, I don't apologize. I think this is one of the most important messages that we can be hearing. And I know I've been going on and on about this, I think for quite a while now, In different ways that I keep trying to bring it in. Because we do need spirituality. We're so lost in the illusion. We're so lost in the suffering, And we need the pointers. And, You know, We need to kind of have the path shown, But we also have to be really clear, The path at some point does become an obstacle. It does. I mean, It's just very rare to not see it become the obstacle, Especially the way I think it's marketed today. So just, You know, Being careful. Don't name what it is, Right? And I know it can be so tempting. And sometimes I've done it in the past too. You know, It's kind of tempting to want to name this as something. And I think it was just brilliant where the Buddha, You know, Where he would call this the deathless. It's just hard to make an image out of that. The deathless. Because the deathless isn't born, And it doesn't die. And yet you can't make an image out of it. And we have to be so careful. We're so image-oriented. We so want to identify with it. And yet that becomes the obstacle. So noticing the identity in spirituality, Like the grasping and the chasing that, The next thing, The next thing. Oh, I needed this meditation. I didn't know I needed that meditation. Oh, I needed this new teacher. Oh my God, They're the best thing, Right? Until they're not. And then they're the next best thing. And then someone else is the next best thing, Right? The constant chasing and grasping and spirituality, Right? Questioning the one who wants to awaken, Right? Because remember, The one who wants to awaken is the illusion. So keep questioning it, Keep questioning it. Noticing the separation, Noticing when it's happening. And to question it, Right? Who is this happening to? To keep shining a spotlight on what it is that's happening in a way that helps you see the appearances that are coming and going. And yet there is something, Not a thing, Don't name it, But there is something that remains. There is something that remains. Reality doesn't arise and disappear. It is always here. Everything else is appearing and disappearing within it. And the nighttime dream, Really no different than the daytime dream. The physics are different, I will give you that. But it's just appearances. And yet we take the daytime dream to be so solid, So real. And we, You know, I just found, And I just teach from what I have found myself, All the mistakes that I've made, You get all my mistakes. And to say the questioning of it is just, It's one of the most powerful tools that we have. It cuts right through the appearance. It cuts right through it. And you know, There's a being, There's something here, And it always remains. And it becomes just this something, You know, A little thought appearing. Who's the owner of that thought? There is no owner. None of your thoughts are your thoughts. None of my thoughts are my thoughts. They're just thoughts. And in seeing that, There's this less identification of it, Because another setup here is that we think, Another trap, Is that we think enlightenment, Awakening must mean I never have thoughts again. No, There's no thinker behind the thoughts. There's no getting upset about the thoughts, Right? There's less thoughts, Less thoughts. But still thinking, Just no thinker. Still doing, Just no doer. Still decisioning, Just no decision maker. Still, You know, Meditating, Yeah. Yeah, Meditating. You know, If it feels good, If it feels right for you, Still do your practice. Yeah. Not because I have to, Not because there's something I'm going to get on the other side of this, Not because I'm trying to get somewhere, But because it feels nice for the nervous system. It's a nice joy doing it. Yeah. Doing it for the joy of it. I have to do it. I have to become a better meditator, Again, Because this is going to be lifetimes. So I better get better on my cushion, Right? Just setting up, Just setting up again. The trap, Just setting up the trap. The one who wants to awaken is the illusion. Shine a spotlight on that and see what it is that remains. And keep integrating that, Looking in that way, Into your path, Into your practice, Or into your practice. It just cuts right through it. All right, That's the freedom, That's the freedom. In not identifying with the appearances and the knowing, The being, The trusting in what it is that's always here, And trusting it. A little faith along the way doesn't hurt as well. Taking that step, Just asking the question can be super helpful. I also play a big role in this. But we've got to stop going down the rabbit hole of spirituality and make sure that we truly understand these are the practices are a means, Not an end. The moment they become an end, The moment we become perpetual seekers. And it's not something that's going to happen 10 years from now. In the moment that you say, Who is it that this is happening to? And the ego can't compute it, And it short circuits, And there's silence. That's it. Ah, I was always wearing the necklace. Oh, I just forgot, I just overlooked it. It's a big overlooking. So when I say that, I'm not trying to minimize it. It's a big overlooking, Because we're so compelled into the ego, We're so believing of that illusion. And that's why I find the practices are helpful. But they're a double-edged sword. At some point, They start to turn on us. And if we're lucky, Someone comes along and whacks us at some point and says, Hey, You were on the path, And then you got off of it. And this is why you're spiraling in this loop. This is why you've been on this path for 30 years. And you're like, Why aren't I getting it? You, The ego, Were never going to get it. You were never going to get it. But we keep spinning around in circles. And then we get that whack, And it says, No, This also is a trap. Now you're also seeing the trap of spirituality. Use the tools, Use the practices, See all of this appearance of the spiritual practitioner. Use all that to see, To help you understand this, So that you can also then see that it is just an appearance. These are all just appearances coming and going, Really no different than the nighttime dream. And think about when you wake up from the nighttime dream, A nightmare, And you're so relieved. Oh, Thank goodness. Thank goodness that was just a dream. And then you wake up in the daytime dream, And you realize, Oh my God, Thank goodness that was just a dream. I was so identified with Meredith. Meredith, Who is an appearance, An interdependent, Interconnected arising, Yeah? But not reality. Because Meredith is going to come into being, Ultimately go out of being. Not reality. And through all the appearances of Meredith, Meredith as a toddler, Meredith as a baby, Meredith as a teenager, Meredith as in her 20s, Meredith in her 50s, Meredith in her 60s, Through all these appearances, Meredith is the working in this industry, The Meredith is that, The Meredith is this, They were all just appearances, Just appearances. Not reality. There has always been something here that remains. And then you wake up to that, And it doesn't matter if it's just for a few minutes. You're awake in that moment. I wasn't that. A little bit later, The dream starts to take hold again. Who is this happening to? Keep asking. Keep asking the question. Keep bringing you back. Ah, That's right. I never left. That's right. And again, There does start to be a natural trusting of this, The reality over the dream. You realize our trust was misplaced in the dream, In the dream character, In the dream character. And it's like, Phew, Thank goodness. Thank goodness that was just a dream too. And now, And now I can move through life very peacefully, Very openly, Very flowing, Fluid with life, Because there's nowhere to get to. It's just appearances arising. Enjoy the pleasant conditions when they arise, Right? When the unpleasant conditions arise, Don't get attached to them. Nothing's, You know, Nothing's solid, Nothing's staying the same, Right? There's no getting attached to anything. And that's freedom. That's truly letting go, Freedom. So keep questioning, Keep questioning, Keep questioning the appearances. Don't let the appearance, You know, Fool you into thinking it's reality. It's not. The appearances come and go. Reality is what remains. And that's where the freedom is, In knowing that we never left it. As Saint Francis says, What's looking is what you're looking for. Again, Just one of those things that can just take you right there. Oh, You wake up. Oh my God, I was out there looking, But what's looking is what you're looking. Oh, And just wakes you up in that moment. More waking up, Less dream time, Less getting lost in the appearances. Okay. And I do see there's a lot of questions here, So I'm going to go through some of the comments here. Kathy, I'm going to come back to yours, But I don't miss some of these earlier ones, Okay? Hi, Mari, Good to see you. Oh, And Sameet and Kim, Good to see you. Oh, Amelia, I'm glad to hear you're calmer and in peace. All the answers, Amelia, What I would say when we say all the answers are inside us, All the answers are in silence. So maybe you're pointing, Maybe saying the same thing, But I would say all the answers are in silence. Yeah, And your reality is your whole, Yeah. Yeah, We don't want to, And just Kathy, As you're saying, We don't want to become the eternal seeker. This, I mean, You know, I think the marketing of spirituality in the West, I mean, It's helpful in that it's become so available. I mean, You know, Maybe in ways that we wouldn't have come into connection with, Or we wouldn't have come into contact with it before. I mean, It's super helpful, But it's so susceptible to being hijacked by the ego and turning us into eternal seekers. And my God, The number of eternal seekers, My God, I mean, It's pretty staggering, The numbers, It's pretty staggering. Something, You know, We, And I'm not saying this doesn't happen in the East, I would think it doesn't happen nearly as much, Or in the past it didn't, In the past it didn't. But it's also, You know, It's big business, It's big business as well. This isn't a popular message, What I'm saying today, It's not popular. No, I want to become something, I want to be something, Right? It's like, Okay, Oh, You want to be an eternal seeker, That's what you want to be then, Right? This is not a popular message. It should be, It should be, Right? I'm not saying just because I say it, Because there are other teachers that say it. But yeah, There's a bit of, As I'd said like a few weeks ago in the Dharma talk where I was saying the conflation of spirituality and self-improvement, Or the becoming something, The divine self, The more spiritual self, Like the new improved self. You know, It's almost like, You know, The conditions in our society, Our culture are very prone to that, Right? There's always something new, Every year there's something new, Every year there's something new. You know, Whether it's spirituality, You know, Whether it's something new in spirituality, Oh, Now it's the mantras, And now it's this, And now it's that, And now it's the breath work, And now it's the, You know, It's the qi gong, And now it's this. And again, Not saying any of those things, They can all be super helpful. But we add them on to the illusion, You know, We create identities out of these things. And it's always just like, It's just one more course, It's just one more thing. It's like, How many more courses can you do on mindfulness? Like, I mean, You know, I mean, What I do find, I find the Dharma talks, As long as the Dharma talks are pointing you in the right direction, Can be super helpful. And I do find that they're helpful, Make sure that they're pointing you in the right direction. Because there's a lot of brainwashing that's happened in our culture, In our society, And, And in believing in the dream and the dream character, Or the dream character. And, And so hearing this, You know, Hearing this, And in different ways, Hopefully in different ways, You know, Maybe slightly different ways to kind of keep tripping up the ego, Or maybe just again, There's an identity, You're like, Oh, I see myself there, I see my Oh, Yep, I saw myself there. Right? To kind of help you kind of see like, Oh, Yeah, Yeah, I am doing that. And so hopefully, In a way to keep pointing you back in the right direction, Right? That's, That's, That's what, You know, That's what the hope is here that this is that this is doing for you, For all of us. And so yeah, There can be some helpfulness in that. But there's also, I just, There's like a million other ways that you can get lost in other things. Yeah, And I'm just, I will still go back to other practices. But Philippa, Just what you're saying, Like the well being industry, You know, It's been so hijacked by mindfulness. It's been so hijacked. I mean, The wellness and it's so much like people get so attached to their morning routine. I get up at, You know, 3am and I meditate for an hour and I do yoga for an hour and I drink my matcha tea and I journal and I do gratitude. And the whole time that's their ego just wrapping up this big identity in it. You know, It's like we, We get so attached to this stuff, Like we don't even see it. It's just and I think all the images and I think there's big business online. In, You know, I don't do TikTok or Instagram. I have a Facebook page, I barely use it. But I'm not making anything on that just that I know there's a lot of people on there that are really good at marketing this stuff. But they're not marketing awakening. Maybe some are, I mean, I don't spend any time on there. But every now and then someone sends something to me, You know, And sometimes I'll take a look. And, And there's, You know, Be careful of good marketing. Be careful of it. Make, Make sure, You know, Checking in with what it is, Why you're here. If you just want a little bit of peace, You know, A little less stress in your life, Like, You know what? That's fine. You know, You can kind of go on and, And going on the courses and going on all those things, You know, You know, Definitely better than a lot of other things you could be doing, Like relatively speaking, Yeah, Better than a lot of other things you could be doing. But if you want freedom, And I just kind of feel like why, You know, Why go for the cake with, You know, Just a little bit of sugar? Why go for the kind of okay tasting cake? When you can have, You know, You know, I don't know if that's a good analogy, But I'm going to go with it. You know, You can have the good cake. Why have the subpar cake? Like freedom a little bit of the time, And then still getting stressed and still getting irritated. And then the beating yourself that comes up from it, Because I was doing so well. I was doing so well. I was so peaceful. I was so present. I got to get back to it and beating ourselves up over it. Relatively speaking, Yeah, It's better than nothing. It's better than being 100% caught up in the chasing and the grasping, Sure. But if the chasing and the grasping is painful, And it is, It is, There's no question about that. It sucks. It's painful. And you can feel the freedom and the peace that comes from giving up certain things, Like you don't have to do those things anymore, Because you saw the chasing and the grasping. Why wouldn't you keep following that thread? And noticing the chasing and the grasping when it's happening in spirituality. I mean, There's a lot of uptightness in spirituality, Right? A lot of clinging. And I mean, I do find this in a lot of spiritual centers. A lot of egos. A lot of egos. It's kind of bizarre. A lot of egos trying to pretend to be egoless. You know, And everything kind of looks the part. And we just see the images and we, Oh, Look at that. We're very susceptible to seeing images and imputing something, Right? We impute, They must be peaceful. I remember on a retreat, This was the retreat when I actually was first exposed to self-inquiry, The Ramana Maharshi teachings. This was in 2009 in India. And it was it was a three-week silent meditation retreat. And it was somewhere in the second week, They had given us a little bit of like, You can go for a walk outside the retreat center and then come back, But you're not supposed to talk to each other. And there were only like six of us on this retreat. And I remember I was walking up this hill up the road, And I looked over to the side and I saw, What's her name? Started with an I. She was from Sweden. Anyway, She was journaling in her book. And I was really struggling in the retreat. Like I was like, Oh, Man, I didn't realize what I'd signed up for. And it was tough. And I remember looking over at her and thinking, God, She looks so peaceful. She looks so happy. And she's getting it and I'm not getting it. And I suck. And, You know, Why did I come here? Why did I think this was going to be so great? And at the end of the retreat, When we were able to speak, She had come, Ivanka, Ivanki, Something like that. She had come up to me and said, You remember that day when we were able to go outside the retreat center and I saw you walking up the road and man, You looked so peaceful and you looked so happy. And man, I was really struggling that day. And I was writing in my journal about that. And I was just thinking, What? I was looking at you thinking you were so peaceful and I was the one that's struggling because we impute, You know, We impute our ideas of, You know, Of what's going on with other people. And we don't see things. We're just imputing things, Right? Everyone else is getting it but me. I'm the only one that sucks. And yeah, It loves to compare. In fact, I have that in the course, That story. Because it was just, You know, We were both just cracking up laughing, You know, Just how wrong we were. We're always imputing things. You know, It's like the, And I have seen these two because someone will send them like the video of someone being, Oh, This is a peaceful life, You know, A day in solitude, Right? And they have, You know, They're waking up and they, Again, Sipping their morning tea, Looking out the window, Looking out at the dew, You know, It's all very peaceful as they slowly walk over to their meditation cushion. And it's just kind of this image in the soft music. And I find that actually the most hilarious of all, Because of course, They had to be setting up the camera. Did I get the right shot? They probably took a shot and then went, Oh, No, That didn't look good enough and redid it. And we watch this and really believe that this person is showing us what a peaceful life is. Anyone who is truly living in solitude would not want to film their day, Because there would be a lot of stress in that. They would not want to film their day. But we, You know, We see these images and we believe it. You know, We don't see them editing the image afterwards and how much time it takes to edit these things. You know, You know, Oh, I looked more peaceful there. I didn't look as peaceful there. I've got to redo that part. What was I wearing there? Right? We don't see all that, Right? We just believe the image, You know, And it's just it's all fake. It's all fake. Yeah, Felipe, You wouldn't want to film your life either. And it'd be boring as hell for anyone to watch. It'd be so boring, Right? But yeah, We get a lot, We get very lost in it. Yeah. So, Okay, I'm just going to go back again, Because I'm sorry, I kind of got went off on a little, A little tangent. Peter, Yes, I know you saw something. So, From Peter, Good to see you. In the material world, All of the secrets for happiness while being deeply connected to the matrix, How do you know when you are too spiritual? That's a great question. Like, How do you know? You're making an image. You're making an image out of it. There's no image in this. There's no image in it. Like, How do you know? You can even use, You know, Inquiry to question that, Right? Who's questioning, Am I being too spiritual? Right? Because the question is the ego, Right? So, You know, Who, You know, Am I being too spiritual? Am I not being too spiritual, Right? Because remember, All of this, The one that wants to awaken is the illusion. It's just that it's not going to be there for it. But we think it is. And so, To question that, To question that, Who is it that wants to know? Who is the owner of this thought? Just question it, Just question it, And come back. Don't think too much about it. It only becomes a problem when you think too much about it. And as from Amelia, I think it was, Like, In the silence, All that you need to know is in the silence. It's all there. Yeah, Oh, Julie, And I use that quote all the time, Or not that exact quote, But I was, I always reference that. The Wizard of Oz quote, You've always had the power, You just had to learn to use it for yourself. You always had it, Right? She goes through this, All these trials and tribulations, And then she gets there, And I think the good princess, She says, Oh, Just click your shoes together. What? What? I thought I had to do all these things. No, Just click your shoes together. And yet, The doing all the things has its purpose. I do find it has its purpose. There's a certain amount of understanding that happens, But there's there's really ultimately, And Peter, Maybe this will also help a little bit to your question. There really is no understanding what it is that we are. I mean, Honestly, I think our heads would explode. I just don't think it's possible. But we can see what we're not, And in identifying that, And using self-inquiry to shine the spotlight on it, And in the absence of it being reality, We can be it. I don't know that we can, Like, That's again, Like, I want to understand what is it? Is it all consciousness? Is it all awareness? You know, And I kind of entertain some of those ideas as well, But I try not to get too attached to them because I don't know. I don't know. This is, This is, This is, Even, You know, As we talk about appearances, Things arising, Like, We kind of have an understanding of that, But it's like, What is all this ultimately? I don't know. What I do know is that being reality and not getting lost in the illusions, Life is a heck of a lot easier. It's a lot easier. It's a lot, It's, It's, It's more full. It's more interesting. I mean, The illusion is just the most uninteresting thing in the world. It is because it's all about me. I'm the center of the universe. What do they think about me? What do I think about me? What am I going to become tomorrow? And then when tomorrow comes, What am I going to become next week? And then when next week comes, What am I going to become next month? Right? There's just always this striving to be something. Oh, And I'm never living up to it. Like, That's just boring. It's boring. And that's part of it. You've seen how repetitive it is, How self-centered it is. It's so boring. So what I can know is it's, And I'm not claiming to live in this permanent state of it. I don't. It's more and more the, The moment, The moment the mindfulness is arising and the questioning of it, It's back. It's back. And then there's, Oh, It's getting a little lost. Oh, Got a little lost. Oh, Look at me. I was getting a little lost in that. Oh, Not that. I'm not that. And it just, It just kind of becomes, You know, I know for some people, I know Eckhart Tolle, You know, Had this instantaneous, And there's some people that that happens for. That's usually not the most common way that this happens. And that can be very destabilizing as well. Very destabilizing. For most of us, You know, It's a gradual path. It's a gradual path. It's, You know, You spend less and less time as the dream character. But the dream character hasn't, Like, Died. The ego hasn't died. Because how can appearance die, Right? It's just, There's less identification with it. There's just a lot less identification. And it's kind of funny. You go, Oh, Look, Look, Spinning out about this. Not me spinning out, But look at the spinning out, Right? When you can have that, Like, Oh, It's, You're less, There's more trusting in reality than the dream character. And there's just, There's less interest in that. It's like, It's so boring. It's so boring. I mean, It is. It's, You know, It's so boring because it's always me trying to become something or me trying to not become something, You know, That I thought I just became. And it's just, It's painful. It's boring. It's repetitive. It's just, It's an endless dream. It's just this endless dream. It's like, It just never ends. Because it's the same things. It's just, You're grasping and chasing at different things. Oh, But now I'm really going to become this. Oh, But now I'm really going to become, Oh, No, No, Now I'm really going to become this. Right? And it's like, That's so boring. If you had a friend and every day they came over and told you how, Oh, No, No, You know, Next week I'm really going to become that thing. Because I'm doing the course. I'm doing this other one. I found this teacher. They're amazing. Now I'm really going to become it. And then they come again and go, Oh, No, No, Now I'm really going to become it. It's like, My God, Do you not see? You're never becoming anything. It's just this endless fantasy and overlooking the whole time what is already here. And overlooking the whole time what is already here. And that what you want to become, You already are. You just overlooked it. You just overlooked it. And again, I don't mean to say that like you just, Because the brainwashing is so strong. It's so strong. But it does become clearer and clearer and clearer. It definitely becomes clearer and clearer. No question about that. And so the practices work as long as we're, Even the practices work when it's like, When we were becoming a spiritual person, Because I do have to laugh at that. Like, I was so believing I was a spiritual person. I was a serious spiritual practitioner. I was so serious. I was going to get it. You know, And you just, It's hilarious how it just reinvents itself, Right? And you just have to laugh like, Man, Afford again, Right? But maybe that was the last place that we fall for it. Maybe it's the last place. So that's a good thing. You know, We've kind of exhausted all of our resources, All of its identities. You know, As we said, It's very clever. It's very clever. Always don't ever assume that it can't come out and get you, Because I think that also is, Sets us up for failure. But just that, The one thing I think we can, You know, Kind of the common thread in here, And Peter, Also to your question, Is, You know, We know when we're in the matrix, That's what you said, Like, We're in the matrix, Or we're in the illusion, We're in the dream, We're in the, You know, We're believing in the dream character. It always comes with contraction. Always comes with contraction. There's tightening, You know, Almost, You know, The holding our breath, The kind of shallow, It always comes with that. And unless there is truly something in your environment that is threatening, You're in the matrix, You're in the illusion. Okay, Let me go back. So Julie, Thank you for that Wizard of Oz quote. Thank you. So Fiona, When you're saying what's the difference between a mantra and a manifestation, I try to avoid anything to do with manifestation, Because usually what's being manifested is the ego, Is an image of me, The image of me getting something, The image of me creating more wealth, The image of me being more spiritual. You know, A mantra, If you're saying a mantra, Generally, You know, A mantra meaning mind tool, Uh, It's just meant as a mantra, As a way to quiet the mind, To quiet the mind. So I would never use as a mantra, I would never be using it to manifest, You know, I feel like, Um, I would not put manifesting in what it is that we're doing here. Definitely not what I'm teaching here. Definitely not that. Definitely not that. Okay. So Peter, Uh, Just a thought on this beautiful journey, Observance of the ego. Oh, Hang on. I just got scratched down. Hang on. Observance of the ego in this material world is exhausting enough. Yes, It is. Let alone trying to observe if it's my ego that makes me too spiritual, Especially in living and being part of a capitalist system. I may not be a hundred percent, Um, Getting to your point here, Peter, But I mean, The ego serves its purpose. The ego has a purpose. Uh, I don't, I don't even think, Like, I don't think the ego is something to be destroyed. I know they need to be fed, Right? I know that appearance needs, I know this needs to be fed. It's an appearance. Um, The ego is an appearance. The ego in this capitalist system and keep in mind, Spirituality being very much marketed in this capitalist system, Um, Has, Has become on steroids, Like the super ego, Um, Supersized ego. It's gone beyond its usefulness. I mean, We can see this. I mean, People walk around every day in fear, Overwhelmed, Anxious, And yet they're perfectly safe. I mean, That makes no sense. That makes no sense. You've got food in the fridge, You've got a house, Maybe a little bit of money in the bank, Uh, Plenty of clothing, Friends for support, A job, And yet walking around completely terrified. That's not, That's not helpful. And the stress that that, Um, Invites, Because whatever you're thinking about, If you're thinking about something scary, Your brain perceives it as a real threat. And so you're in this constant state of releasing adrenaline and cortisol and feeling tense and feeling threatened and feeling like a victim. You know, Stress is meant to be an acute on-off switch. You got away from the tiger or you didn't. And we stay in this chronic state of stress because just the endless thoughts, What's going to happen to me? What do they think about me? What do I think about me? I'm such a loser. I'm so unworthy. Why did I make that mistake back there? Why did I say that stupid thing back there? Right? Like just constantly second-guessing, Uh, Comparing, Um, Uh, Judging, You know, Just, I'm incomplete, I'm lacking, I need something, I need something to feel whole. You know, It's, It's, It's gone to this extreme. And yet, Um, If it hadn't, How many of us would have been, You know, Come on this path? If my suffering hadn't been to the degree that it was, I don't know. I mean, Particularly when I started meditating, It was not something people did. And this was only 26 years ago, But it was not something that people did that. Not people were, I worked at Merrill Lynch. Definitely people there did not do that. Now they bring it in, Right? Make mindfulness, They bring in to try and be more productive, Right? Um, But, You know, I mean, I went to it because I'd exhausted every other resource. I'd tried everything. Try, You know, I'd gone to therapy. I thought it was helpful. I understood why I was doing certain things, But it didn't take away the feeling of unworthiness. It didn't take the feeling of separation. Um, You know, I tried law of attraction. I tried manifesting. No, I tried that in the crystals. I tried it all, You know, And, And eventually I was just like, Okay, Deepak Chopra had his center two blocks from my office then, When he used to be in La Jolla. He's still in San Diego, But he used to be in La Jolla and, Uh, In San Diego. And yeah, And I started meditating. And so many of us, Um, You know, Wouldn't have been pushed onto the spiritual path without it, Without the ego going into overdrive. I mean, So it has its place. I think it has its place. You know, It's kind of whatever the evolution of the ego where it's going, It's out of control. Um, You know, Creating the conditions for so many of us, You know, The ego wanting relief from itself, Right? Because remember the one who wants to awaken is the illusion. Um, And then we go on a spiritual path, But then, You know, We have to be careful because of the traps of it. So I think it plays its role. I think it plays a role in this, You know, Don't hate your ego. It's just, It's just causes and conditions. It's just causes and conditions. Okay. And I'm going to get to your questions down there, Callie. And, Uh, Let me just, I know there's been quite a few up here that I've missed. Um, Uh, Yeah, I like, Sorry, Just the mantra you put there, Philippa. Uh, And Alice. So since your husband died, You keep asking yourself if you were a good wife. And then I asked myself who's asking if I was a good wife. The ego really likes to constantly egg you on. It's like me in a place where I feel like I'm striving never enough, But it's better more awareness. And that's excellent, Alice. I'm so glad to hear that you're asking that. Because look what, Like, You're never going to find resolution in that question. You're never going to find it. Never. Right. You know, Again, The ego, The ego, The appearance of the ego arises with a thought, Right? Can't, It doesn't arise without the thought. That's one of the conditions. So the appearance of the ego arises and it arises because there's something that needs to be solved. I need something, I need to get something out of the way. I need to know, Was I a good wife? I need to know the answer for that. So thought created problem. Now we go scurrying more thoughts, More thoughts for a thought created solution. You know, Oh, But I did this that was really good and I didn't do this was so good. And then maybe you kind of finally get to this point. You're like, No, I was a good wife. I was a good wife. And for a moment, You know, The thought created ego goes, Okay, I feel better about that. Oh, But don't forget, You know what, This is what you did that wasn't so good. Oh, And so now I've got to go scurrying through that again and again. And this is the loop we keep doing, The thought created problem, Trying to come up with a thought created solution for the thought created problem to appease a little thought created me that will only be happy for a moment before it goes, Well, I don't know. What about that? You know, Or what about the next thing? Right? It's just, It's never satiated. The ego, The separate self, It cannot live. It cannot sustain itself in contentment. It always needs, There's a problem. I'm missing something. I'm lacking something. I need that. Oh, God, I might end up with that. I'm the bad wife image or this is happening and I don't want that. The big bill, The bad backache. It always has to live because it lives in duality. Me lacking something, Me wanting something that always that, That sense of self, I'm not enough. There's something I need. It has to live in that. And we go, We go off scurrying, You know, We can spend an hour going over this again and again and again, Thinking that we're using, That we're being rational and that we're somehow going to find a solution. You're never going to find a lasting solution. All we've done is propel the illusion, The habit of the illusion. And that's a neural pathway in our brain, Right? We're using more of the default mode network in the brain. So the more we use certain parts of our brain, The more active those parts of our brain become, The more active the amygdala becomes, The fear center in our brain. So it all just becomes this, This, You know, The feeding the loop. We're just feeding it. We're just feeding more of the behavior. So, So glad to hear that you are questioning it. Whatever it is, Whatever thoughts arising, Question it. Even just who is the owner of this thought? There's always an implied owner behind the thought, But there's no one there. Thinking happening, Doing happening, No thinker, No doer. And that's what we want to keep shining the spotlight on. And as you said, Alice, So the more that you do this, The more living, You know, The more aware you are. Great. Fantastic. The lighter you are, The happier you are. Yeah. And Kathy, Just what you're saying, Such a huge amount of freedom and not identifying with the thoughts, Which absolutely correct, Kathy. So random. None of us knows what our next thought is going to be. I don't know. I don't know what my next thought is going to be. And they're not my thoughts. None of our thoughts are our thoughts. They're the thoughts of our conditioning of our culture. They're not ours. They don't belong to us. And that also, There's a lot of freedom in realizing that, Oh, That thought of jealousy, That thought of comparing, That thought of shame, That thought of guilt. Yeah, That's part of our culture. Even, Of course, I do rehash stories a lot. So I'm going to rehash another one here. There's a story about the Dalai Lama. And this was like maybe 30 years ago, 40 years ago. And I've heard it two ways. Once he was with a group of neuroscientists, And another time he was with a group of psychologists. And they were asking him, You know, What would you say to someone that has feelings of unworthiness, Of self-loathing? And what made this story so interesting was that at the time, His English is pretty good now, But at the time, He really relied on his translator. And the translator was having a lot of difficulty translating self-loathing, You know, This feeling of unworthiness. And they were going back and forth and back and forth, The Dalai Lama and his translator, Until finally he kind of understood what he meant. And through the translator had said back to the person, He's like, What, You hate yourself? Like, That makes no sense. Why would you do that? Why would you do that? So in Tibetan culture, Not even there being a word for it, But in our culture in the West, In a very competitive, Egocentric, Individual culture, You know, My God, Everyone feels unworthy. Everyone feels shame. Everyone feels they're not enough. It doesn't matter who you are. You can be the CEO. You can be the most beautiful person on the planet, The most famous movie star. Everyone has this sense of unworthiness. It's in our culture. And when you recognize, Too, That's not me. That's not my thought. It's not me. Who is it that's thinking it? There's freedom in that. It's not me. Whew, Thank goodness. So no shame about, I can't believe I had that thought. My God, I'm a Buddhist. How could I have that kind of thought? I didn't have that thought. The thoughts floating came in, The causes and conditions, And the thought arose. So great point, Kathy. Thank you. And Philippa, So we had discussed that, Yeah, About the wellness industry and its marketing superficiality. And Alice, Yes, The ego is a good marketer. For sure it is. Yeah. I'm just agreeing with some of the comments as I'm going through. I'm realizing they're probably not something to comment here. But Philippa and Alice and Kim, Yes, All your comments here I'm agreeing with. I'm tempted to comment on your comment on karma, Philippa. Yeah, I'll just touch on this and see if I can do it. I think what we also have to remember with karma, And karma from a Buddhist perspective, Is intention. It's not so much the act as it's the intention. And in fact, I was just talking with someone about this yesterday, Where he was talking about being with this person that was an elderly person. They were going on and on about themselves. They weren't asking anything about him, And he was judging that person. And he said, But I didn't act on it, So I didn't create any karma, Right? You know, That he was able to not say something rude to the man or something. They didn't act on it. And yet the karma is the intention. Because if I'm judging someone, I may not be acting on it, But I'm planting the seeds, And I'm probably going to later in some way. I'm planting the seeds of judging because that's what's happening in the mind. So we want to be, And this is where also I find this can be super helpful because, Of course, I just said a moment ago, We don't know what our next thought's going to be. Oh, Now I feel a little trapped. I feel like, Oh, Oh no, I'm in trouble. Because I don't know what my next thought's going to be, And yet my intention is a thought. And now I'm planting seeds of karma. Oh no, What does this mean? So it's not to judge ourselves because we were judging, But I do find that there is, Through mindfulness, Being more aware of what's happening in the mind, That we can recognize like, Yeah, You know what, There's been a lot of anger, There's been a lot of judging coming up, Like probably some more loving-kindness meditation could be beneficial here. Yeah, That could be good. You know, Some kindness practices, Some tonglen meditation, It can help us to kind of know what type of practices we might need to be emphasizing a little bit more. And of course, Always asking, Always asking in the, You know, Who is it that's, You know, You know, Who is it that's judging, Right? Who is it that's judging? Because the karma itself is attaching, You know, Is attaching to the mind stream, If you will, And the belief there's something in there. And this is why it's said an enlightened being creates no karma, Because there's nothing to attach to. It doesn't mean that they can't walk along and kill ants accidentally, Like yeah, Not stomp on them, But you know, But there's nothing, There's nothing to attach back to. So doing the self-inquiry, But also we can kind of recognize like, Yeah, You know what, There's a lot of anger arising, A lot of resentment. Yeah, I should probably do some more heart-centered practices, Right? Because then those are creating the conditions of kinder, More compassionate thoughts, Not a kinder, More compassionate me, But more kindness, More compassionate thoughts arising. Yeah, But we, So we do have to be careful what seeds we're watering in there. We do have to be careful of that. Yeah. And Sue, Thank you for the donation. Thank you. Yes, And just to your point, Philippa, Too, And I think that's helpful for Peter, I hope for both of you. The ego loves to overthink this. It overthinks everything. Who's overthinking, Right? It always thinks it's got to get this. I've got to get this. I've got to understand this. Oh, Let me look this up. Let me hear someone else. You know, And that becoming an obstacle, I'm not getting it. I'm not getting it. Who's not getting it? Who's not getting it? And you get it. Not the ego, Right? It's never going to get it fully. It's never going to fully get it. Thank you, Julie. Thank you so much. Okay. And I know, Callie, You had some questions. I think I'm getting close to you here. Okay, Or Deb. Sorry, Deb. I hope you're still here. I'm sorry. This question was from a while ago. What do you say to someone who's going through a health issue? I would just say, Open your heart with compassion to what it is they're going through, And the words will come. I mean, That might be where you're struggling and not sure what to say. Practice some tonglen. Practice some tonglen. If you're not familiar with tonglen, I have a, We did a workshop, Kind of like one of these lives a year ago or something like that. And I've got that on my teacher's page as a talk. But I would absolutely, When someone's going through challenging things, Tonglen is a very, Very powerful practice. Because there can be a lot of discomfort around that when someone's going through a health issue. And we don't know what to say. And then we kind of make it into a big thing. Oh, No, Am I going to say the wrong thing? And what I find is just doing tonglen meditation, Because we're really seeing all their fears, All their worries. We're not projecting our fears and worries onto them anymore. We're seeing their fears and worries and transforming them. And it really helps us see what they need to hear. Not what we need, You know, Not that we need to feel better about it, But we can see what they need to hear. And it, You know, Deb, You know, My mother died this year. I was back looking after her for five months as she was going through chemo. And there would be tonglen, You know, When I was like, I don't know what to say. And if I would just be sitting there holding her hand, Just imagining I'm taking on her suffering, Taking on her worry, Taking on her fears. And a lot of the times it was just, I don't need to say anything. You know, She just needs me to be here. That's what she needs, You know. So, Yeah, Too much, Too much of it, It becomes, Sorry, I do still get a little, You know, Of course I should get sad about it. We just had to wait. That's why I was gone for the last few weeks. We just had the wake in Ohio. But too much when we're going through, When we're with someone who's suffering, You know, We have this fear, What am I going to say? What am I going to do? I want to do the right thing. You know, We want to help. But really what's getting in the way there is our ego's fear of not knowing what to say, Of doing the wrong thing and kind of making it all about us. And so, You know, Often, And it can just be in the moment, You're just sitting with someone and you're just breathing and you're just imagining what they're going through, Right? You're getting out of your head and you're just imagining what they're going through. And often the right words are there. Often they're there. But often what I find too, There's nothing, You know, It's just, It's a smile. It's a little, You know, A squeeze of the hand. And it's just, It's okay to just be with this. You know, It's okay to be with the fear that they're feeling like that. You know, We want to try and take their fear away. And that's not what Tonglen practice is about. It's about showing us a way to move closer to it, To not fear it. And so that we can respond in a way that is appropriate for the situation without getting ourselves in it. Oh, Did I say the right thing back there? Did I not say the right thing? Sorry, My nose is going. And yeah, It's taking us out of it. It's taking us out of it because it's difficult. It's difficult when we're with people that we love and they're suffering. Oh, Sorry about your own health is what you're questioning about your own health. You can do Tonglen on yourself, You know, Taking on your own fears and worries about your health. So that again, You're quieting down all the fear around it, All the endless, Needless worrying, Because it's not helping. It's not helping, You know, Allowing you to move closer to it and with self-compassion. So Deb, I'm not sure where you are in your practice, On your path, How many tools are in your tool belt, But self-compassion. Also, Just, You know, Kind of a little pet of yourself. Oh, Sweetheart, This is tough. Big decision needs to come up or, You know, I'm losing some capacity, Some things that I was able to do in the past. Yeah, Yeah, Sweetheart. Yeah, This is tough. This is tough. So it's about practicing being with it, Right? Being with it is really, Really important and not denying it, Not denying it. And I have another talk, Deb, For you as well that when we did the five remembrances last year, The end of last year. So these are the Buddhist five remembrances. You know, The first one is, I'm of the nature to die. I can't escape dying. I'm of the nature to get sick. I cannot escape getting sick. So that's a good one for us to look at, Because we always, Oh, No, No, No, You know, I'm losing this. And it's, It's a good thing for us to remember. And these, These five remembrances is what the Buddha said we should think about every day. You know, Maybe just the beginning of your meditation, The end of your meditation, To remember, Yeah, I'm going to get sick. There's no avoiding it. There's no, The only way to not getting sick is just dying instantly, Right? So I'm probably going to get sick. And the third remembrance, I'm of the nature to die. I cannot escape dying. Yes, This one is going to end. Meredith is going to end. You know, Meredith is an appearance, You know, Existing. I'm not saying not existing, Right? But not existing the way we think. And, And the fourth remembrance, Which was very interesting that we were doing that just as my mother had just arrived here down in Mexico last year. And the fourth remembrance, Everything that is dear to you and everyone that you love is subject to change. You cannot avoid being separated from them. And that's a good thing for us to remember, So that we don't take for granted the time that we have with our loved ones, Right? This isn't about turning us into robots, Unfeeling, Unthinking. It's about, You know, Seeing that these appearances and appearances that we have a connection with, A love with, A bond with, They won't last forever, Right? And so not to fret and worry that they're going to leave us, But to remember not, Don't take any moment for granted because we do. We take so much for granted that they will always be here. And, And the fifth remembrance, My only belongings are my karma, Right? I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are my continuum, Right? So again, The actions like is the intention. I don't, I'm not quite sure why it's said in that way, But it is the continuum. It is the continuum of us, Of Meredith, Of Meredith. So for Deb, You know, You might want to refer to that, The fourth remembrance, Or sorry, The second remembrance, Also self-compassion, Self-compassion, Because the worrying isn't, The worrying does not help our health. It doesn't help us make wise decisions. It doesn't help us heal if we're needing to heal because the stress, You know, Shuts down the immune system, Doesn't help us heal. So as best you can to move closer to your fears, Move closer to your worries, To feel them, To really embrace them, Right? You're very welcome, Deb. And I'll just do a couple more here, And then we're probably getting close to my stomach starting to grumble, And I need food. Let me just go through and just see if there's anything. Oh, Hi, Swiss from Switzerland. Oh, Great. Philippa went, Yeah, If you notice there was judging out of reading the news, Then more Tonglen, More meta, Right? And then eventually there's a reading the news and not judging anymore, Right? Or if it comes, It's like, Oh, I'm not that, I'm not that. Oh, So you're saying also a mixed, Yeah, Mixing Tonglen and loving kindness, And don't be afraid to do those things on your own, As you've probably gathered. I mean, I take all these traditional practices, And there's always a little bit of a, You know, What works here is what I'm delivering. And thank you, Robert. Thank you. Oh, Kim, Thank you, Kimmy. Yeah, The puppies are good. I'm so, You know, So nice to be back with them, Because I wasn't with my dogs for most of the year. That was tough. But I was where I needed to be with my mom, And I'm so glad I was there. Yeah, And just Alice, What you're saying, Again, It's the silence. You know, We say so much just by sitting in silence, And the sitting in silence, And again by, So Deb just, Oh, I know this was for yourself, But for anyone with someone who's going through something, There is, You know, When there's a nervousness of sitting in the silence, The worry of the fear of the silence, Needing to fill the space, That's not really giving them the space of silence. So again, It may appear on the outside that we're giving space and silence. It's got to be genuine, Right? And so if you notice there's an uncomfortableness around it, Right, You can ask, Who's uncomfortable in the silence? Who's uncomfortable? Right, Shine a spotlight on it. Or again, Just in that silence, Just practicing some Tonglen, Practicing some Metta, Right, As a way that just eases like, Yeah, And then you're comfortable in the silence, And they are truly comfortable in the silence. And silence like that one is beautiful when nothing needs to be said. There's nothing that needs to be said, But you're really truly comfortable with it. So thank you, Alice. Thank you so much. I appreciate the donation. Okay, And I think, I think I've just about gotten to everyone's questions here. So, Oh, Leslie, Good to see you. Good to see you. Thank you. Thank you for your kind words. I'm so glad that you were here. And Alice, And Kimmy, And Deb, And Libby, And Char, And Robert, And Philippa, And Julie, And Sue, And Swiss. And who else was here? Oh, And Callie, And Fiona, And Char. Oh, I think I said you twice, Char. And who else? Oh, And Peter. Yeah. And well, Let me go back any further, But perhaps you guys are still here. Who was here in the beginning? Michelle, And oh, And Paula. Yes, You were here in the beginning. And Lindsay, So good to have you here too. Thank you. Thank you guys so, So much. I think we are just going to go ahead and end it here. I, My stomach, The conditions are that the stomach is going to start rumbling here in a minute. I should, I generally eat just a little snack before I teach. So I'm ready for lunch, And the puppies are ready to come back inside. Oh, And Michelle, Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. So thank you all so much. I so appreciate all of the dialogue, The great questions and comments, The hearts. I love it. Thank you for the donations. And, And of course, I'll put this whole recording up on Insight Timer. I've been lately just putting all of them up. And, And just don't get caught up in spirituality. Don't get caught up in the trap. You know, You're what you're looking for. You are what you're looking for. It's not far from you. It's not separate from you. Don't let anyone ever tell you that. I mean, It's the ego making a pretty good convincing statement that many of us have fallen for. So just have a little bit more awareness around that. Just have a little more awareness around that. Question a little bit more. Okay. Thanks, Alice. I will. At least the AC is working in here. So that's good. So thank you guys so, So much and lots of love and gratitude to all of you. Oh, And Firefly. Firefly, I didn't know you were there. Good to see you. So thank you all so, So much.

Reviews

I love having these talks recorded… Thank you. I’d love your thoughts if this is the ego creating another identity… I am hearing more and more people say I want to be my authentic self. I want to discover my true self.

it feels like another identity to me because how can we be anything but our authentic self in this moment? ✨🌻✨🌻✨🌻✨🌻✨🌻

I really enjoyed this talk, it’s the continual reflection of who am I and finding that I have always been inside me, it never left me. Having said that, as I explore some childhood trauma, I am learning who I actually am.
Humble in the journey.
🙏🏼 Thank you Meredith 🌸