Interview: Hollis Peirce ~ Living With Disability!

Hollis talks about what it's like to be an advocate and champion for those with disabilities, and how each and every day is a miracle for him. Not only does he not allow his congenital muscular dystrophy define him, but he is changing the dialog around what disability even is.

Transcript

Greetings,

Fellow travelers,

And welcome back to another episode of the podcast.

This time I'm going to start out the podcast to ask those who listen,

If you wouldn't mind giving me a little rating or a review wherever you listen to the pod,

I would be ever so grateful.

Usually I put this ask in in the outro,

But this time I thought,

You know what?

I'm going to grab the bull by the horns and just start out with that ask.

And so there you are.

I want to let you know that I was a little nervous about interviewing Hollis Pierce when we matched up on my podcast platform that I use sometimes to get guests for the show.

He's quite accomplished and is someone who is changing the dialogue and the conversation around disability.

And he's a huge,

Huge,

Massive advocate for those with disabilities as well.

Not only does Hollis have both an undergraduate and graduate degree in history from Carleton University,

He's also a podcaster and public speaker.

He's won honors and accolades like the Ottawa Celebration of People Award in 2008.

And then more recently in 2024,

He earned the Meritorious Service Medal Award.

He's also a chronically physically disabled man with congenital muscular dystrophy.

And you know what?

He's someone we need in the world because he's moving,

He's shaking,

He's rabble rousing.

And you know how I love me a good rabble rouser.

So without further ado,

I really can't wait for you to meet Hollis and hear our really fabulous conversation.

For instance,

One day I was sitting in a park and I was just sitting there and I loved people watching.

It's one of my favorite things to do.

And I was sitting there so long and there was this homeless guy washing his clothes in the fountain.

And after a while,

He stood up and he started walking towards me.

And I was like,

I was wondering what I was going to be doing,

How to react.

And I'm like,

I was wondering,

Okay,

Am I going to have to run or am I going to have to like be ready to physically like try to knock him over or get hurt?

I have congenital muscular dystrophy.

And I've got a master's degree in history at Carleton University.

And I have a Meritorious Service Medal from the Governor General of Canada for my lifetime achievements in disability advocacy.

Okay,

Yeah.

And you live up in Canada.

Is that true?

Yeah,

I live in the capital of Canada.

I live in Ottawa.

Amazing.

So many people think the capital of Canada is Toronto.

No,

No.

Yeah.

Is there a,

I'm sensing some sort of like little bit of rivalry between Toronto and Ottawa.

Is that true?

I mean,

They're both in the same province and their hockey fans hate each other.

But,

I don't know.

In terms of the cities,

No.

Yeah,

There's more like sports teams.

Yeah.

Okay,

Got it.

Yeah.

You know,

I grew up,

After living overseas,

I grew up outside of Chicago.

And of course,

We have the Blackhawks and I never got into hockey.

I'm just not a hockey person.

Are you into sports at all?

Well,

I,

You know,

I love when I go back home to see the Cubs.

I love when I go back.

Yeah,

I love the Cubs.

Yeah,

The Cubs and the Bears.

I love the Bears too.

But you know what,

I lived during the time of the Super Bowl shuffle and the fridge and,

You know,

All of these Titans,

Walter Payton,

Who's no longer with us.

So,

There was just this kind of mythos in the 80s and early 90s around the Bears,

Which you just kind of had to love.

We actually owned the Super Bowl shuffle record,

Just heads up,

Out there.

Played it constantly.

So,

Are you a big hockey fan?

Yes.

However,

I'm not an Ottawa Senators fan.

I was born in Edmonton.

Okay.

And so,

My heart always bleeds oil.

So,

I'm always an Oilers fan.

Okay.

Okay.

That's totally fair.

It's,

I mean,

I think once you spend a significant amount of time in one place that kind of,

You know,

I live in New Mexico,

But still I'm kind of everything Chicago.

So,

You can't,

You can't get rid of that.

Now,

I want to ask,

Obviously,

You were born with this disability.

Do you think that because of this,

That is why you're involved in disability advocacy?

Or do you suspect that even if you weren't born with a disability,

You'd still be passionate about advocating for those people with disabilities?

I think a bit of both.

I think because I am disabled,

It has pushed me to be even more aggressive in terms of advocating.

Because,

You know,

A lot of things that I am doing,

Like,

I have faced a lot of instances where it has been sort of said that,

Oh,

I can't do this because.

And then I say,

No,

You know,

Fuck off.

Sorry,

I don't know who I am.

That's right.

And I sort of like bulldoze my way through the door.

And but if I didn't have a disability,

I think I would still be somewhat of an advocate or an ally.

Because my family is just very,

Very positive people and very supportive.

And I definitely would have been involved in some way,

I think.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I was going to ask about your family,

Because,

You know,

I've certainly known so many humans in my life,

And some people are born with families that are very supportive.

It's just the nature of the family unit.

And then some people are born with,

You know,

Parents that don't maybe encourage them to try new things or go to college or what have you.

Yeah.

Were you're I mean,

Would you say your parents were very supportive of you?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And I use one word often to push myself,

And that's thrive.

And I was when I was diagnosed at six months,

My doctor told my parents that I would have an inability to thrive.

But,

I mean,

That was,

That was,

You know,

The 80s.

They really didn't know much about neuromuscular disorders.

And they said that I probably would not survive past my young childhood.

But,

Like,

My family sort of just threw that out the window and pushed me even more.

Like,

My dad would always,

My dad would always taught me,

Tap me on the head with his finger.

He's like,

There's nothing wrong up here.

And so it really pushed me academically.

And and now I always point out to my sister,

To my big sister,

That I am the most highly educated in the family.

And yeah.

And so that really,

Really pushed me in terms of that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

Both of your parents sound like forces of nature.

I think,

You know,

This world is a challenging world to live in just in general,

I think,

Especially in the United States right now.

Not sure if you're paying attention.

Oh,

Yeah.

I think Canadians know all too well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I know.

And I'm so sorry.

I just apologize.

Okay.

I've been,

I've been interviewed on so many podcasts with American hosts and every single one of them is like,

Oh my God,

I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's it's a little crazy and a little almost unbelievable.

But that's a whole nother conversation.

I do want to let you know that I love Canada.

My uncle used to be the chief engineer for the city of Vancouver in BC.

Yeah.

You know,

One of my fantasies has always been to take the train from Vancouver all the way across to where it ends and then go spend a ridiculous amount of time in the Maritimes.

But that's still in the future.

Yeah.

And yeah.

So crossing fingers that might happen.

You know,

I myself have never been to the Maritimes.

I've never been like east of Quebec City,

But the Maritimes seem like a very,

Very interesting place.

I know someone said to me,

Oh,

My gosh,

It kind of rains a lot and it's gloomy.

And I said,

You know,

I spent 23 years in Portland,

Oregon,

Like has 50 days of sun.

I think I can handle it a year.

Well,

I wanted to ask about,

You know,

Being a kid and just going to school.

Did you go to a regular school educational system?

And as you said,

It was the 80s and things were kind of I feel like in some places they're better about just being present and prepared and able to work with those who have disabilities.

It's,

You know,

Across the U.

S.

,

It's really spotty as far as educational systems having the capacity to even show up with disabilities.

But,

You know,

How was it going to school?

What was that like as a kid?

Um.

It was I mean,

In my young childhood,

I well,

I'm a public speaker and I also,

You know,

Talk about transitioning from young childhood to high school and in in young elementary school years.

You know,

I was like the cool kid because everybody was fascinated by my wheelchair and wanted to be my best friend.

And I always find out how the girls wanted my attention for other reasons.

And but then I you know,

As I grew up,

I didn't I moved quite a few times as a kid just because of my dad's professional professional life.

And every time I moved,

I sort of found myself a bit more of a place.

And,

You know,

It was so like in elementary school,

You know,

Here I've lived in Ottawa twice in my life.

Once as a very young child and then again in my late teens and onward.

And the first time I lived here,

The school that my neighborhood school did not want to accept my sister,

But did not want to accept me because they didn't want to go through the process of hiring an educator.

They didn't want to hire an educational assistant to be with me in classes.

And so my mom,

My mom was just like,

My mom,

She calls herself Mama Bear and she puts on her Mama Bear costume and just whatever.

Yeah,

You're not letting my kid do this.

And so she started to be my attendant in school until the principal got so pissed off with her that he eventually hired somebody.

It's good to have a Mama Bear on your side,

Honestly.

It is.

It is.

Absolutely.

And yeah.

And so then in high school,

I was more,

You know,

Out of place.

And I was often put into like teachers.

If I was like arriving as a new kid,

I would often have teachers and principals sort of put me into friendship groups and sort of told certain kids that they needed to be my friend because and being told that doesn't really help me.

And and so that sort of made them want to not be my friend.

And then I was sort of like high school is really sort of the time when I was being teased about my disability for the first time in my life.

And I say I always say like that is the first time that I faced ableism.

But I just I didn't know what that was until my university years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I it's I mean,

I remember high school all too well.

No one likes high school.

I find anyway.

Well,

People,

You know,

Unless you find your pot of people,

Kids can be really cruel.

Even in grade school,

You know,

Kids can be cruel.

Kids can sometimes just be cruel.

Why don't we just make have that blanket statement out there?

And,

You know,

Various reasons,

Who knows what the reasons are.

But yeah,

High school,

High school is a whole other kettle of fish.

So I'm not surprised.

It was really,

Really interesting in seminary.

We had this class on disability in the Bible.

It was actually quite fascinating.

And they part of the class,

This was like a part of it.

We examined the idea that,

You know,

And I'm not Christian.

So all of this was kind of foreign to me in general.

We examined that,

You know,

Jesus went on the cross.

They,

You know,

Punctured his hands and his feet and they cut him in his torso.

And,

You know,

Then he passed away,

And then he rose three days later.

And the question with the class,

Which I thought was so fascinating,

And such a thought experiment was,

Technically,

When Jesus came back,

He still had all the wounds all over his body.

You know,

Who knows how well he could walk,

But you would classify him as disabled,

Because he's wounded in his hands and his feet.

And then he has this gash in his torso.

And so what does that look like?

Yeah,

He's only a veteran.

Yeah,

Yeah,

It's a,

It was a very,

And I thought,

Oh,

My gosh,

I've never thought of that before.

And,

And then,

You know,

Of course,

There's the idea in the Bible that he rises,

And of course,

He's perfect.

And he is God,

You know,

He's the son of God.

And so that is all perfection.

So technically,

Even with his quote,

Unquote,

Disabilities,

What is he saying about the modern,

You know,

Disability movement?

What is he saying about just disability in general,

It was actually really,

Really fascinating.

And the,

The kind of thrust of the class,

Or this thought experiment,

I guess I should say,

Was that disability,

You know,

We have all these ableist terms and attitudes and ideas,

When in reality,

Those who are quote,

Unquote,

Disabled are actually perfect,

Just based on Jesus's example.

And,

And I just,

You know,

I've never been able to stop thinking about that.

And it's kind of,

Obviously,

You can tell it captured me because it was such an interesting and fascinating kind of examination of disability and how it shows up in the Bible,

But how it shows up in our lives.

And so,

You know,

I've just thought about it just constantly over the years.

I mean,

What is your attitude towards disability?

How would you categorize or talk about this notion of people being disabled?

Or,

Or,

I don't know if I'm even saying anything correctly or asking this question correctly.

You mean how I define disability?

Yeah,

Yeah.

I mean,

Just like they were positing in this class that being disabled is actually not a thing.

Yes,

There are people that are differently abled,

But the moniker or the name of disabled with all of the connotations over the decades and the centuries,

Which have mostly been negative,

To be honest.

You know,

They've mostly been really assumptive that people with disabilities,

You know,

Can never live a normal life,

Can never,

You know,

Like you were saying,

Show up in a classroom and get educated.

You know what I mean?

There's all these kind of stories,

I guess you could say,

About disability,

Or people who are differently abled.

And so I guess I just like to know,

Kind of your,

I don't know,

Thoughts on what disability means.

And,

You know,

Being disabled,

Is that an actual real term that we,

You know,

Should use?

Because I don't know,

I like differently abled,

Because it takes away kind of the negative stories and meanings that the word disabled has been kind of freighted with,

I guess.

Hmm.

Yeah,

I mean,

I don't,

First of all,

I don't,

I don't really like,

You know,

You're saying you don't like the term disabled,

I don't like the term normal,

There is no normal.

And I'm,

I don't know,

I find that differently abled is a bit,

Is a bit too,

I don't know,

I just like disabled,

I don't feel,

I don't feel,

I feel that my disability has been a major part of my life.

But it's not a negative thing.

It's,

It's definitely taken me down roads that have been more difficult.

Like,

For instance,

Right now I live in a hospital.

Because of my complex,

My complex needs as an adult.

But,

You know,

I,

In many ways,

Living in a hospital has allowed me to do so many things.

Like I started a podcast,

I am public speaking now.

And I am oddly more independent than I ever have been.

Like,

Normally,

People with ventilators,

That are on ventilators are not allowed off of the unit on their own.

And my doctor sort of said,

You know,

Is this frustrating to you?

Like,

Do you,

Are you used to more independence?

And I said,

Yeah,

Yeah,

A lot more.

And he said,

Okay,

Well,

And I signed a waiver form saying,

Like,

Okay,

If I die on my,

On my,

Like,

My own trips outside of the hospital,

I'm not gonna sue for liability.

And,

And so,

You know,

I've just been a bit more adventurous.

In this new stage of my life.

And I found my,

I always joke about this with my mom,

Because my mom at first was so nervous about having me on my ventilator,

Going downtown,

Going around.

And I always joke with her that if something,

If my vent pops out,

I'll just go up to a homeless guy and ask him to put it back in for me.

And she was terrified about that idea.

But,

You know,

Honestly,

I've found that homeless people are very nice to me.

And I think it's,

I think it's like,

Some sort of familiarity that they feel,

Like,

They sense vulnerability in me that they are also feeling.

And so they can relate to me.

One day I was sitting in a park.

And I was just sitting there.

And I love people watching.

It's one of my favorite things to do.

And I was sitting there so long,

You know,

There's this homeless guy washing his clothes in the fountain.

And after a while,

He stood up and he started walking towards me.

And I was like,

I was wondering what I was gonna be doing,

How to react.

And I'm like,

I was wondering,

Okay,

Am I gonna have to run?

Or am I gonna have to,

Like,

Be ready to physically like,

I don't know,

Like,

Try to knock him over or get hurt or anyways.

And he started pointing towards my hand.

And part of me thought,

Oh,

Is he pointing at my ring?

And then he came up to me and he said,

I just,

You've been sitting here a long time.

So I just wanted to be sure you're not out of batteries or something like that.

And so I,

He was legitimately worried about me.

And,

Um,

You know,

I'm like,

I'm fine,

Man,

Don't worry.

And I know this is a tangent that I don't know what how I got onto this.

I didn't actually answer your question.

That's fine.

Um,

But no,

I think disability is not a negative thing.

Um,

One thing that bothers me most is like,

You know,

I bump into people and,

Um,

People often make assumptions about disability and they'll say,

Oh,

I'll,

I'll pay for you.

Oh,

You're in my heart.

So I'm like,

You know,

I don't,

I don't need that.

I'm fine.

I'm good,

Man.

I'm good.

And,

Uh,

You know,

If they,

If they came up for,

With like a cure for muscular dystrophy,

I honestly wouldn't take it.

It's just like,

I,

Uh,

Because I've met some amazing people in my life and I hadn't,

I wouldn't have met them had it not been for my disability.

Yeah.

Yes.

Thumbs up.

And I am a fan of tangents.

So you are,

I welcome,

Welcome the tangent.

So my sister,

My sister is always teasing me.

Uh,

Cause I tell the longest stories with a lot of detail and,

Um,

And I'm trying to tell a funny story and she's like,

Hollis,

You need to make your stories shorter and funnier.

And I'm like,

And I'm just like,

I'm a historian.

You can't blame me.

I'm a historian.

I like details.

And,

Uh,

You know,

My stories are not,

Are just like all my,

My friends from grad school enjoy my stories cause they're all historians as well.

So.

Well,

There you go.

And I feel like,

Um,

Siblings are supposed to kind of keep us down a notch or two because I've certainly experienced that.

So I guess.

Yeah.

Well,

I'm the baby in the family too.

So yeah.

Well,

You know,

I'd love to ask you the second question,

Which is,

Did you grow up in a religious household and what did that look like growing up?

Um,

How has,

You know,

I don't know if you have a connection to spirit or that divine source we can't see or not,

But how has that evolved over time for you if you do have that sort of connection?

Well,

It's definitely,

Um,

Like religion has definitely surrounded me in different ways throughout my life.

Um,

To start out,

I was baptized,

Um,

As an Anglican,

Uh,

Because my,

Uh,

My grandfather was an Anglican clergyman.

And,

Uh,

Uh,

So he baptized me at six months old and,

Um,

Uh,

I didn't go to church that often,

Um,

In my early childhood,

But then I sort of,

I sort of utilized it as a tool.

Um,

Because I sort of like,

Uh,

You know,

My dad was super busy with work all the time and I sort of thought to myself,

Okay,

Well maybe this will work.

And so what I suggested was dad,

You know,

I'd really love to sort of maybe,

Cause I hadn't seen my grandpa in a long time.

He was in the other part of the country.

And,

Uh,

And so I'm like,

Okay,

Well,

Can we go to church and,

Uh,

Hang out on Sundays?

Yeah,

Sure.

So we would go to church,

Go to Starbucks after,

And then go home to watch some football.

And,

Uh,

Um,

That was my Sundays for most of my team years.

And,

Uh,

That was back when my parents were still together.

And,

Um,

But,

Uh,

Then,

You know,

At first I was not really,

Uh,

Paying attention to,

Uh,

Sermons and I was a bit too young to understand them and understand the hymns and all that.

And,

Um,

But then as I age,

I was,

You know,

Thinking,

I'm like,

Really?

I don't know.

I don't know that I really agree with that.

And,

Um,

We went to a church that was in,

Um,

Uh,

I live in Centertown,

Ottawa.

And so the nickname for Centertown is J-Town because there is a lot of pride and a lot of,

Um,

GLBTQ plus,

Uh,

Um,

Individuals who feel,

You know,

Safety in that community.

And that community is strong in this part of the city.

And,

Uh,

Um,

And this was going on,

Uh,

At that point in my life,

It was at the same point where,

Um,

The Christian church was sort of going through,

Um,

Whether or not they would recognize same-sex marriage.

And,

Um,

Uh,

And so the minister at one point,

Um,

Uh,

During that time,

Uh,

Sort of said that under her interpretation of,

Uh,

Of the Bible,

Same-sex marriage is not,

Uh,

Is a sin.

And you sort of felt the air,

Uh,

Fall out of the room in,

And cause half of the congregation was gay at that.

And,

Uh,

And so suddenly they felt their community fell apart and I didn't,

I refused to go,

Uh,

Any time after that.

I mean,

I'm not homosexual,

But I certainly don't believe that you can tell someone who they can and cannot love.

And,

Um,

Uh,

Yeah.

And,

Uh,

And so then religion fell out of my life,

But I still feel spiritual,

Like I don't really believe in heaven and I don't believe in hell.

Um,

But my mom and I always joke about how we hope that we go to hell.

That's where all the fun people are.

And,

But,

Um,

I sort of believe that like,

You know,

Your influence and your energy passes on in others that you have met.

And,

Uh,

That's sort of what I believe is spirituality.

And then,

Um,

Uh,

In 2021,

I had a downturn in my disability and,

Um,

I was in the ICU and I was intubated.

And they sort of,

Once I was stabilized,

They sort of gave me two options.

They sort of like,

Okay,

Well,

We need to pull the tube out now,

But we need to know what path you want to take.

Do you want to,

Um,

Uh,

Take it out and have a trach where we can guarantee you a good life?

But,

Or do you want to take out the trach and not put it in?

And we can guarantee you six months of life in palliative care.

And so,

You know,

Having to choose between life and death in that instant is like,

Uh,

Is a bit crazy.

Um,

And,

Uh,

I remember my sister was holding my hand at that instant and she squeezed it like harder than she ever had before.

Um,

And,

Uh,

So it was natural to,

You know,

Pick the trach side and live in a hospital.

And,

But the reason why,

Uh,

Spiritual or religion kept on popping up is that the church or the hospital that they moved me to is a Catholic institution.

It's,

Uh,

It's called Barriere Health.

Um,

And it was created by two,

Uh,

Sisters.

And,

Um,

It was the first hospital in,

In Ottawa.

And,

Uh,

So they specialize in long-term rehabilitation and long-term complex care.

And,

Uh,

Um,

They,

Um,

And it's sort of funny cause like,

I,

I remember when I arrived here on a journey,

You know,

On the elevator panel,

You can see Jesus on the cross.

And I'm just like,

Fuck,

Am I really living here?

Like,

I'm like,

Are you kidding me right now?

And,

Um,

Uh,

I,

I moved to,

Uh,

The most,

The complex care unit,

Uh,

Is on the fifth floor,

Which is also the floor that has the church.

And,

And so every day now I had to walk past the church and it's so funny.

It is so funny.

And now I am like really good friends with the chaplain,

Uh,

Here.

And it is,

Um,

And it's so funny.

She laughs about it so much because she laughs about the fact that she's best friends with the biggest atheist in the,

In the building.

And,

Uh,

Yeah.

And so that's,

That's about it.

That's amazing.

Okay.

I just want to put it out there that you are a great speaker and a great storyteller.

Um,

Despite what your sister says,

I say great speaker,

Great storyteller and funny,

By the way,

You are actually funny.

So I've got a very dry sense of humor that my mom taught me.

So,

Yeah.

Awesome.

Another gift from the parents that I think is so important.

So,

Yeah.

Um,

Well,

Thank you for,

That was such a beautiful and really thorough,

Just example of such an interesting journey as far as a faith journey.

So thank you for sharing that with me.

It's so intriguing.

And I also think it speaks,

You know,

There's this mythos or this false construct that people of different religions or different belief sets can't be friends.

And I just absolutely don't believe that.

And I just love at the end that you kind of tie it up with the chaplain and,

Um,

You know,

You being the world's biggest atheist.

I think that,

You know,

That is down to,

Um,

Actually seeing the human being and the person and valuing them for their wit,

Their,

You know,

What they have to contribute to the conversation,

Which obviously for you is,

Is a lot.

So,

Um,

Well,

I'd love to ask you the main question of the podcast,

Which is,

I would so appreciate it if you would share one story,

Two stories,

Um,

Of something that you considered to be maybe magical or,

Or miraculous or even mysterious.

Um,

I'd love to hear whatever you'd like to share.

Magical and mysterious.

Hmm.

That's a very good question.

Um,

Let's see.

Well,

Uh,

I,

You know,

I always like this,

This hospital is definitely haunted.

And,

Uh,

Um,

There's all these different types of stories I've heard from many different people.

And,

Uh,

You know,

When you,

When you have,

When you live in a place that,

Um,

Has housed so many different people,

Um,

It's hard to not feel their spirit around you.

And,

Uh,

Like,

Um,

I live in a,

In a private room,

But,

Um,

One of the walls is like a,

A cardboard separator.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Um,

And,

Uh,

Um,

And so one morning I was awake and I,

It was like,

I sort of like felt this like breeze in front of my face.

And it was almost like,

I felt like someone was like waving their hand in front of my face.

And I woke up,

There's no one in the room.

And then all of a sudden I felt the,

The cardboard wall,

Like push into the room and no one was in,

No one was in the other room either.

Yeah.

Wow.

And it really freaked me out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's,

That's,

Uh,

That's one experience.

Definitely.

Yeah.

I've certainly interviewed other people,

Nurses,

Et cetera,

Um,

Who've worked in hospitals and they've all had stories to tell about hospitals just being incredibly haunted.

Um,

Yeah.

Um,

So it's,

I mean,

Does it,

I don't know.

Do people share their ghost stories about the hospital with you?

Um,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah,

Absolutely.

You know,

They,

You know,

Certain nurses will tell me like they have seen something,

Like a shadow where it's not supposed to be and,

Uh,

In the stairwell or something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that,

Um,

I mean,

Hospitals are,

Are such places of,

You know,

Sometimes life and death decisions and maybe great conflict or trauma.

And that's a lot of energy.

And I think,

You know,

If someone passes away in the midst of all that energy,

Um,

You know,

They certainly can leave parts of themselves or residents.

We don't even really know what ghosts or spirits are.

Come on.

Let's just be honest.

We're all trying to figure it out.

But yes,

Every,

Every nurse that I've,

I've talked to absolutely says,

Oh my goodness.

You know,

I worked in this hospital once and you would not believe what we've seen.

Um,

And so it's really,

Really interesting.

Um,

Are you someone who likes to hear those stories or are you like,

Please don't tell me.

No,

No,

I'm definitely one of those people who likes,

Who likes,

Who enjoys it.

Um,

I mean,

Sometimes it freaks me out when I am,

But the fact that I'm living in one of those,

Uh,

Hospitals,

Um,

And,

Uh,

But that really doesn't bother,

Doesn't bother me much at all.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

And I think also because you're a historian,

I mean,

There's,

You know,

There's always people who are like,

Oh my gosh,

Did you see there are ghosts at Gettysburg,

You know,

Down in the U S these scenes of great death and carnage and conflict.

And I am sure that there are ghosts at Gettysburg,

But I think any sort of location where something really intense or traumatic has happened,

These things tend to happen.

And you being a story and you probably,

I don't know if you read about,

You know,

Ancient historical sites and people saying ghosts or what have you,

But I'm sure you would know all the places.

Yeah,

Definitely.

I mean,

You know,

When you're in a place where like this song and,

Uh,

You know,

Thousands of people died,

You can't,

You can't think that none of those,

You know,

None of that energy has gone,

Has disappeared.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Um,

Well,

You know,

For my final question,

I'd just love to ask you about your disability advocacy.

Um,

You know,

How did it start and how do you keep going with it?

How do you find the energy,

The impulse,

The drive to continue on with the work that you do?

Um,

I think the time that I felt it begin was a time that I really felt,

Um,

Uh,

That I was a part of the community.

And,

Um,

Uh,

That,

That first happened when I was,

Uh,

When I attended an Easter Seals camp.

Um,

I don't know if you know what those are,

But you do.

Yeah.

Um,

And those,

And it is,

It was just a magical place.

And I met these,

Uh,

Two older,

Uh,

Guys,

I think they were in their late teens at the time,

And they had similar disabilities as I did.

Um,

And they sort of,

They were also from the same city as I was.

And,

Um,

You know,

I didn't,

Uh,

Up until that point,

I had never met,

I had never been friends with anybody who was physically disabled.

Um,

And,

Uh,

They started talking to me about,

Um,

Powder hockey and how I should come play powder hockey with them.

And,

Um,

I was like,

Okay,

Yes,

Please.

And I was like 11 at the time.

So it sounded like fantastic.

Uh,

My mom was terrified about the idea.

And,

Uh,

Uh,

But she let me sign up and it was in the Calgary Children's Hospital.

Um,

And they're like,

Youngest,

Uh,

Age limit was 12,

But they're short players at the time.

So they let me in when I was 11 and,

Uh,

I was only there for a year before I moved away.

And I just,

I just loved it.

And,

Uh,

Um,

I moved to Ottawa where at the time it didn't have a powder hockey league.

And I was like,

What?

And,

Um,

So I kept on going to,

You know,

Camp,

Uh,

Here.

And I had friends,

Um,

At my school that are disabled also.

And they,

Uh,

I told them all about hockey and how amazing it is.

And it took me,

It took me like eight years to finally get a league started.

Um,

But,

Um,

But yeah,

That was probably,

Uh,

When I first felt,

Uh,

Um,

My desire for advocacy.

Is when I knew that I was a community in a community and I knew that,

Um,

I wasn't all that different.

Um,

And Sarah,

You asked me also what drives me to continue.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you find the energy to continue?

Um,

Well,

I just keep finding things that are shitty.

Um,

Um,

Like,

Um,

I'm,

I moved into a hospital and I found that their,

Their accessibility buttons weren't that accessible.

And,

Um,

They had a lot of,

Um,

You know,

Hand motion doorways.

And they said,

Oh yeah,

Most of our residents love them.

Like why,

Why,

Why,

Why is it not working with you?

I'm like,

Well,

Yeah,

Most of your residents have upper body strength to,

Uh,

Move their hands.

I don't.

And,

Uh,

So I sort of pushed the idea of,

Uh,

Making,

Uh,

Of getting those accessibility buttons that go from your hip to your foot so that you can hit it wherever you can.

Um,

And that was also my,

The way I,

Um,

I was doing,

Uh,

An accessibility,

I did my,

My master's,

Uh,

Thesis in,

In graduate school was,

Uh,

About the history of academic accessibility.

Um,

And I used,

Uh,

Carleton by my university as a case study.

And so I sort of did a lot of,

Uh,

I did a physical audit of the entire university campus and I got myself stuck in a lot of very odd places.

And,

Uh,

So I sort of kept pushing and I,

Uh,

Yeah,

I just find different things that are not useful.

And I'm like,

Why is that?

Like,

Yeah,

Yeah.

I have to say that I appreciate that you led with,

I find things that are shitty and that is hilarious.

Yet again,

Another example of how funny you are.

Yeah.

I hope you all enjoyed meeting Hollis and really understanding what kind of a fierce and funny human being he is and how he's quite literally changing the world around him.

I was so grateful when he said yes to being on the show and it did take a while for us to find a time that worked.

But as they say,

Patience is a virtue and Hollis was absolutely worth the wait.

I want to thank each and every one of you who listens and you know what?

I'm going to trick you again and say,

Please consider giving me a rating or writing a little review.

Those ratings and reviews help other people find this little labor of love of mine.

Thank you for listening.

And here's my one request.

Be like Hollis.

Be a rabble rouser.

I mean,

Hollis is out there just changing the world and not accepting things the way they are,

You know,

Not accepting the way the world has been built for abled people in many cases.

And he's not shutting up,

You know,

He's like,

Hey,

This is wrong.

This needs to be fixed.

And if you don't fix it,

I might just make your life a little more challenging.

And so Hollis is out there being brave and being intrepid and being unstoppable and just helping a whole lot of other people that he doesn't even know just by the actions that he's taking today,

Tomorrow,

Even next week.

And so I really urge you all to be like Hollis and don't accept the status quo and know that you have a voice and you have power,

Too,

And you can advocate for those who don't have a voice.

So that's the takeaway.

Be a rabble rouser.

Advocate for those who don't have a voice and never take no for an answer.