Everyday Mindfulness Show: Elegance Of Simplicity With Sophie McLean

Connecting the physical reality with quantum reality. Holly interviews Sophie McLean, author of Elegance of Simplicity A Wisdom Teacher’s Epic Journey to Awareness.

Questions they explore:
What is the ego?
How can we use the ego as a tool in our lives?
How would you help people through dealing with the negative aspects of ego?
What was Sophie’s journey to writing her book?
How are you addressing the misconception that spirituality and mindfulness don’t belong in the business world?

Transcript

Welcome to the Everyday Mindfulness Show where we educate and inspire people to live fuller lives through mindful practices.

Let's get started with your host,

New York Times contributor,

Leadership advisor,

Sought after keynote speaker,

The author of the Amazon hot new release,

Everyday Mindfulness from chaos to calm in a crazy world,

She's smart,

Strong,

Sassy,

And a trendsetter in the field of mindful leadership.

Your host,

Holly Duckworth.

Welcome to the Everyday Mindfulness Show where we are elevating the conversation on what it means to be mindful in business,

In the workplace,

And in every aspect of your life.

I am Holly Duckworth,

And I'm so excited to bring you this interview with a woman that really has a beautiful book and a beautiful presence.

Her book title is called Elegance of Simplicity,

A Wisdom Teacher's Epic Journey into Awareness.

Listeners,

I want to introduce you to Sophie MacLenn.

She is the author of this book and really brings to life an embodiment of what it means to do a spiritual quest and connect our physical reality with the quantum reality.

We're going to have a fun conversation today about what that means in life and in the workplace.

Sophie,

Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm so delighted to be here.

Well,

One of the things we talked about is the power of connection and that you love connecting people.

So I love how our interview came to be.

We were actually connected by a mutual friend,

Karen Jacobson,

Who will be on another episode of the show.

And Karen is the GPS girl,

The voice of the GPS,

And really a great connector.

People think of her brand in terms of physical geography,

But she's also a very connected spiritual person.

And so it's so exciting to start gathering this ecosystem of entrepreneurial,

Spiritual,

Quantum-aware women to grow this movement.

Again,

No matter what word you choose.

And obviously on the show,

We're calling it mindfulness,

But I really love our primary conversation was around this thing.

We haven't talked about a lot on the show,

The word ego.

And you said,

I am an expert in deconstructing the ego.

And you said it with passion and power.

So tell me a little bit about what is the ego for those who are on the show,

It might be new and how you came to work with it and deconstruct it and how we can use it as a tool in our life.

Hmm.

So,

You know,

If we look,

The ego,

I'll give you the definition I came up with and then I'll explain it,

Right?

But the ego is the sum of all of our identification in the material physical dimension.

So what does that mean?

Right?

I just really wanted to get to the source of all the suffering and the fighting and the conflict that there was in the world.

Right?

So I imagine long,

Long,

Long,

Long,

Long ago at the beginning of time plants and then animals were then created and I don't pretend to know why,

How,

When,

And then I looked at the energy system,

Right?

So we need energy to survive.

The plants do not have a system,

Internal system to produce energy themselves.

So they depend on the sun to feed them energy.

So the plants are receiving from the sun.

They do not need to get anything.

The animals,

Including human beings,

We also do not have a system,

Internal system to get energy.

Right?

But we at the difference of the plants,

We need to go and get it.

We need to go and find out what is poisonous and what is nutritious.

Right?

So the brain got trained very early on to go and make this distinction between what's nutritious,

What's not and get it.

So that's all very good.

In fact,

I think that the species that didn't survive didn't make that distinction.

They did just got it wrong and they got what killed them.

Right?

But we as human beings are still around.

So obviously we did something right.

We learned what could just nourish us and what could kill us.

Now that's all very great.

But the problem is that I think we have two kinds of mind.

We have a mind that is connected to the quantum,

To the possibility world,

To the non-material world.

And then we have another mind through the five senses that connects to the material world.

And somehow we disconnected ourself from that elevated quantum reality.

And we think,

Many of us think that the only reality is the material world through the five senses.

So not only do we need to survive physically,

But we need to survive ontologically,

Meaning as far as being in concern,

Right?

Ontologies are the art and study of being.

So we use exactly the same mechanism to survive physically getting food,

Escaping danger and our relationship from a human being to human being.

I don't know if that was very English,

But I hope you got what I said,

Right?

So now we have a world where people dominate,

Control,

Fight,

Not communicate,

Really survive each other exactly the same way we used to survive physically.

And that is the ego.

And that is a source of many suffering,

All suffering in fact,

When you identify with that.

That's so interesting,

Sophie,

Because I think that's part of what's making this time in human history 2020 so fascinating is I think a lot of us have lost touch with the brain that does the material world.

And some of us have lost touch also with the brain that does the quantum or the spiritual world.

And so each of us are on a journey of renewal,

Rediscovery,

Transformation.

Some of us both in the physical part of our mind and in the spiritual and then the integration of both.

And it's exciting to have more teachers like yourself coming forth.

And I don't think any one of us are saying this is bad or this is good,

But saying,

How are we going to use all of our stuff?

Yeah.

In the brain and the body and the spirit to be nourished in the highest and best life we can create.

Yeah.

You know,

One of my favorite author,

David Hawkins said,

We are entering the time of homo spiritual.

Isn't that great?

We're going from homo sapiens to homo spiritual.

And I totally agree with you.

I'm delighted to be alive at this time because I think as much as we have to deal with a lot of suffering and horrors,

There is also these groundswell movements with people that know that there is something else available.

And it really is time to create a new culture for humankind.

Well,

I like your definition of the word ego and the listeners know I love to play with words and do just exactly what you did.

Like go to that simple simplicity of a definition and then unpack that more.

And it's sort of funny because I also sometimes get tripped up by negative words and some people have a negative association with the ego.

So I'm curious,

How would you help people through that if they're like,

Oh,

My ego is bad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well that's when you don't know what the ego is because the ego is actually everything other than nothing.

So there is things that don't work,

Things that works.

I mean,

But that's all the ego.

The ego is not only being an arrogant hahaha,

You see,

But how do you know the thing is there's two things I want to say about it.

I just love this conversation.

So the first thing is how can you survive the material dimension without an ego?

You cannot.

You need to create,

You know,

When I talk to you,

I have created a certain way of being.

When I go on a date,

I am very different.

I can be charming and sexy when I go and need a conference with 500 people,

I'm very intentional,

You know?

So those are all ways of being that are created like an actor.

And you are really authentic when you tell the truth.

What people are frightened to speak about is that they have created their entire personality when there is no problem with that,

As long as you tell the truth about it.

So that's one thing.

And then the second thing,

Sorry,

Is that you need to distinguish and be aware of the personality or character or ego.

Those are all the same,

Describing the same thing that you created as you were growing up so that you're not on automatic.

And then you're free to be who you want to be.

But on this plane,

On this material plane,

You do need an ego,

Except if you go in a monastery,

In a ashram,

On top of a mountain,

Do not talk to anybody and spend your entire life in silence,

Maybe,

Katie.

I joke,

I often tell my clients,

I call the ego your expanding God opportunity.

Or God,

I know that can be a charged word for people,

An expanding good opportunity.

So when that energy of ego,

Like you said,

Shows up and it shows up all the time,

I'm like,

Oh,

Here's another expanding good opportunity.

But do you know the marvelous thing is that when you're really connected with your soul and you have that vertical connection,

You know,

Many people call it the Kundalini pillar or column.

When you're really connected,

Then what you create as an ego is directly connected to the divine or the spiritual.

So this is where life is delicious.

It's an adventure.

Absolutely.

I so connect to that.

And we were exploring two concepts before the show that I hope we can embark upon in more shows this year.

And it's this idea of sometimes mindfulness,

This stuff gets filed into a box called self-help or personal development,

Which is a great place many of us start.

But now in 2020,

I think this movement is getting some momentum that's becoming more of a collective or a group consciousness,

A group awareness thing.

So I was curious your take on that personal development and the collective fulfillment,

The collective of all of us doing all this work now together.

What's your take on that?

I'll quote the Dalai Lama,

Right,

Which is somebody I have a lot of respect for.

And he said,

If you seek enlightenment for yourself,

You are a fool.

And if you seek enlightenment for others,

Then you're a wise person.

And that captures it all for me.

You know,

The point of working on oneself is not to be self-fascinated by all your mechanism.

I mean,

They are quite boring.

And frankly,

I don't know if you agree with me,

But when my mind goes,

I find it so boring.

You know,

I was meditating this morning,

Attempting to connect to the divine and my thoughts were about where to put my rug.

And I started laughing saying,

Really?

I am meditating for the presence of the divine.

I'm thinking of my rug,

Right?

So that's absurd.

So personal development of working on yourself or deconstructing the ego is really not the end.

It is just the beginning so that there is this collective fulfillment available because the whole of life is inside of relationship,

Right?

Never,

Ever,

Ever are we separated.

You can hear what I'm saying because of your eardrum.

If you didn't have it,

You wouldn't hear me.

I wouldn't be able to speak.

Everything is connected inside of relationships.

So personal development unfortunately can go over very fine line to narcissist research.

And that is one of the traps one needs to go through before elevating.

Well you're making me smile.

I always love it when guests come on the show and they share their real meditation experiences because I do try to help people break up mindfulness and meditation.

Mindfulness is a tool.

Meditation is a tool.

They work hand in hand but there's lots of other ways to become a mindful person.

I love your book title because it's Elegance of Simplicity.

And then it goes on to say,

A Wisdom Teacher's Epic Journey to Awareness.

And I love that you laugh because I'm sure there was many moments on this journey where we think we have to be super serious.

Like you said,

I'm calling in the divine.

And so giving listeners,

Giving ourself permission to be serious and be fun and find the grace of that journey.

So I'm curious,

Talk to me about how you came to do the book.

I mean it's a personal thing to put your story out there in the way that you did.

And you've been connected and had experiences of the divine at two and throughout your years.

You talked about a story when you were 12 and it just grows and grows and grows.

That this shows about empowering people wherever you are to that elegance of simplicity for your personal journey.

So how'd you come to tell your personal journey?

Well I was leading seminars up to 2010 all over the world.

I led for about 80,

000 people worldwide of all nationality and age.

And I was,

There was this calling inside of me that I needed to deal with the spiritual.

You know when you can be swallowed up in the corporate world by doing.

And I had this yearning to just literally go and educate myself with the spiritual.

So I quit and I went on nine years sabbatical.

I planned two years and it turned out to be nine years.

And I studied everything I could put my hand on.

I had tantric yoga,

Nutrition,

Buddhism,

Hinduism,

Tango.

I went to do three masters in philosophy.

I did everything I ever wanted to do.

And then you get to a place where you need to give away what you get.

What's the point of me having done all this work for the last 30 years and not give it away for whoever wants it.

I mean if people don't want it,

Then that's fine.

I'm not attached either.

But this is what a teacher is.

The teacher is somebody that impart the knowledge,

But only the knowledge they have experienced.

And I've had a very full life.

I mean there is not much I haven't experienced from losing a child,

Losing my husband,

Being raped,

Being in a war,

Living in an ashram,

Living in a penthouse,

Living on a farm.

I traveled the world.

I mean I tell you I've had really quite a blessed life with all those experience.

So I thought,

Okay,

I've got to give it away.

So I wrote the book and I first started writing the book as a philosophical essay and I gave it to 10 friends and they came back to me and they said,

Can't understand anything.

It is cold,

Dry.

You're not in the book.

I couldn't finish it.

So that was quite shocking.

But I realized if I don't put myself in the book,

I won't make the difference I want to make.

You know,

Philosophy is marvelous.

I'm a philosopher by training,

But what's the point of philosophizing if it doesn't impact your everyday life?

So I let go of all my protection,

All my fear,

All my privacy,

And I went for it and I put my entire life experience in that book,

Or really all of it.

And I hope it will make a difference in people's life because you can relate at least to some of it.

I mean,

And there is a whole description of the ego in the book.

Well,

We're going to put your website link and we're going to put a link to the book and everything in the show notes for the listeners.

But I want to come back to,

We often make sure to,

When we have guests on the show,

To highlight,

And I want the listeners to hear that just as we talked at the beginning of the show,

Our mind is often the piece of the physical and the quantum world.

What a gift it is that you're sharing through this book and through your trainings and your workshops,

The integration of the value of both of those things.

One of the questions we were talking about is,

So I want to know,

Sophie,

Can I leave this planet with my ego or do I have to like release it on this plane?

Like from your journey,

What do you know about this whole ego thing?

Are we getting rid of them or are we taking them with us?

I have no idea.

I don't see no idea,

But I really don't have any idea about my theory because everybody can make up a story about everything,

Right?

But we will not know until we go to the other side.

Yes,

You do.

As far as beingness is concerned,

I think you do have to account for it.

That's what the people call the karma.

Maybe we do have many lives and we work out our karma,

But I do think karma is real.

I think so.

So I think it goes on and on.

So one of the things that you've been bringing through your work is creating a nest,

A safe place,

A workshop,

A conversation place where people can dive into these concepts a little bit more.

So tell us about the workshop that you're planning that's happening in 2020.

So I need a one-on-one session for a few people because one-on-one takes a lot of time,

But I realized that it's one thing to do the work and go to a seminar or do some letting go work,

But then you have to integrate it in your everyday life.

And that's where people need support.

So I created a five weekends of a year course.

There is five coaches that takes care of the participant as well.

I'm leading it.

And this course is called the nest one-year course,

And it stands for nurturing,

Educational,

Spiritual transformation.

And over the space of one year,

You get to integrate all your insights and all your breakthrough and elevate your consciousness.

And the participant in that course are people that want to participate in the creation of a new culture for humankind.

They want to make a difference.

So doctors and teachers and coaches and HR people and anybody interested in elevating the global consciousness,

That's the place to be.

And the first one starts in March in New York.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

So what do you say to these people?

You probably get them,

Sophie,

In your circles,

Same as I do,

That say,

Yeah,

That woo-woo stuff doesn't have a place in corporate.

That spiritual stuff doesn't work.

It's not part of my company.

How are you addressing that issue?

So the first thing is that I never try to force my view on people,

Right?

Because as you know,

It doesn't work.

It really doesn't work.

But I use the Socratic method with those people.

Socratics never gave any answer.

Just asked questions.

And when you ask people questions,

It makes them think.

And that is my only access to have people let go of their protection,

Let go of their defenses and start being authentic and telling the truth.

And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

But you know the saying,

Right?

When the student is ready,

The teacher arrives or something like that.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's how I deal with it.

And of course,

When it's time to talk about health care and more,

There are some companies I find and some people that refuse to spend up to eight hours of their day in a non-nourishing,

Difficult space.

And so it's moving.

I think it's moving.

I absolutely agree with you.

And I think that the time is now and I feel so fortunate to be able to gather the premier community,

Exploring these concepts,

Inviting them into workplaces around the world because our world needs that visionary compassion,

Mindfulness as individuals and then certainly as the collective.

So as we wrap up the show,

One of the segments we like to do is really this idea of thought-provoking questions and you just referenced the Socratic method as mindfulness people on a quest.

What's one of the questions maybe you asked yourself or you came upon in your journey that you asked yourself that you would maybe share with our listeners as a question that they could use to deepen their own connection to the ego and the integration of this material brain and the quantum brain?

Is there a question that you found extra juicy or nourishing that perhaps you could ask our listeners?

That I could ask the listeners?

Yeah.

Yeah.

If,

If,

Okay,

The question would be,

Imagine yourself at the end of your life on your deathbed about to go,

What kind of life would you have liked to live?

What kind of human being would you have liked to be?

Great,

Great question.

And you know,

Listeners again,

Two words highlighted there,

Human being and be.

We're not human doings and we're not what would you like to do?

And Sophie,

You're such a great gift to the show.

Thank you for coming on.

Any last words of wisdom or anything before we let you get back to your,

Your busy day?

You know,

I'm very grateful that there is people like you truly in the world that are interested to do the show and the spot cast and,

And there is more and more,

And it is really my privilege to serve.

So thank you for having me.

And I hope the listener will enjoy and get a little tidbits of wisdom out of our conversation.

Great.

Well,

We're having you back on the show again.

Remember Mindful Matters and so do you.

Thank you for joining us for today's show.

For more mindfulness every day,

Visit everydaymindfulnessshow.

Com and download the three day challenge and experience the ABCs of mindfulness.

Reviews

Loved this talk!! Off to buy the book. <3