12: David Hoffmeister On People Pleasing And "No Private Thoughts"

Do you ever fall into the trap of trying to keep everybody happy? I used to be quite the "people pleaser" and it only contributed to my anxiety. In today's episode, David Hoffmeister is going to give you a totally new perspective on people pleasing and we will also dive into the teaching from A Course in Miracles on "no private thoughts." David's examples and teachings are sooo helpful!
Get the show notes and takeaways at: http://fromanxietytolove.com/12

Transcript

This is From Anxiety to Love Radio,

The show about undoing anxiety through a course in miracles and other pathways of love.

Gain insights and tools to deepen your awareness of the peace that already exists within you.

I'm your host Corinne Zupko,

Author of the award-winning and best-selling book From Anxiety to Love.

Hey everyone,

On today's episode I am chatting with David Hoffmeister about people-pleasing,

Which is something that I know many people with anxiety struggle with,

And the teaching from A Course in Miracles on No Private Thoughts.

Now if you don't already know David,

I'm sure you do,

But if you don't,

I'm so thrilled to introduce you to him.

David is a mystic,

He is a living demonstration that peace is possible in this world,

And he's a world-renowned teacher of A Course in Miracles.

I love this episode.

We are going to get to hear some examples from David's life before he was transformed through the course,

Back when he was quote-unquote David the shy guy,

And he offers of course some really powerful teachings and really powerful insights as always.

I also have to take a moment to share some really exciting news that David's book,

This Moment is Your Miracle,

Is now available wherever books are sold.

It is a beautiful book about learning to trust your inner guidance,

Accepting life's miracles,

And finding true freedom and peace of mind.

I'm so honored to have endorsed the book,

And one of the things that I wrote is,

And I'm going to read this to you,

Although the process of transcending fear is not always easy,

It is simple,

And David's explanations and exercises guide you to claim the happiness that is your birthright.

And I have more to say,

But you can read the endorsements when you get the book.

You can find a link to This Moment is Your Miracle in the show notes along with the other links that we'll discuss,

And the show notes are available at fromanxietytolove.

Com forward slash episode 12.

I'm so excited to share this episode with you.

Let's listen in to our conversation.

David,

Just saying spiritual teacher,

I mean I guess that captures it,

But I feel like David is so much more because he's not just a teacher,

He's a living demonstration of living A Course in Miracles and really putting these principles into action.

When David and I were corresponding over email setting up our session together today,

There's a little note on the bottom of his email that says that he's visited 44 countries on six continents around the world,

49 states in the USA,

25 years of extensive travel,

And so he has a lot of archived recordings and teachings on his website,

Which is Living Miracles Center.

You can check that out at any time.

David,

I am so thrilled to have you here today.

Thank you for being here.

It's great to be here.

I've enjoyed our meetings,

So I knew this would come about sooner or later,

So I'm glad it finally did.

Me too.

As you know,

My audience is mostly comprised of A Course in Miracles students in varying forms of depth of study,

Whether folks are new to the course or more advanced with their practice,

But our theme that we always have running throughout is anxiety and really fear.

Some folks have a lot of debilitating anxiety.

Other folks,

You know,

It's what the course is all about,

Is releasing fear.

And there are two sort of broad areas that I want to really dive into with you today,

Because these have been areas that have been points in my own life that I've wanted to work on.

And you have so much out there already with these topics and wisdom,

And I've had so many questions come up as I've listened to you through YouTube and in other settings.

The areas of focus are people pleasing and the course's teachings on no private thoughts.

So with people pleasing,

I'd love to start here because I feel like this is something that so many of us struggle with because we get anxious over the thought of not keeping everybody happy,

And we're people pleasers.

So I'm wondering what's coming forward for you just as we begin our conversation in this area.

Yeah,

Well the first thing that just popped into my mind right away was,

You know how I've loved the Course and I've worked with it,

But pretty late in the text,

Jesus,

It gets pretty intense because he starts to describe things like our self-concept that most of us consider our personality self,

And the face that we put forward to the world,

You know,

Try to put forward a good smiling face to the world is,

He calls it the face of innocence.

And then he says underneath the face of innocence is an aspect of the self-concept that's too dark to even look upon.

And you know,

He uses some pretty strong language actually.

He calls this bottom part,

He says draped with sin.

So you know,

It's like,

Ooh,

Draped with sin,

That's very dark.

And that's what maybe Carl Jung would have called the shadow.

And a lot of us who work in psychology and philosophy,

We're pretty well versed in the unconscious,

But when you think of it in terms of our personality self,

That's more like the top self and then the lower self.

The top self was made to put kind of a smiling face that's oftentimes wet with tears,

But to kind of cover over what lies beneath.

So for me,

People-pleasing involves this mask,

This persona that is worn where we want to have a good mask.

We want to be accepted.

We want to be adored and loved.

We want recognition.

And that's really the big hook where the people-pleasing comes in because when we don't receive what we expect to get,

A smile,

A hug,

A compliment,

A kind word or something,

Then it can be devastating.

It almost starts to shake us down to the core because we have worthiness issues.

Are we worthy?

Are we worthy of love?

I think is really the core issue that's underneath there in the unconscious mind.

So people-pleasing is a word that I came up with that covers a lot of defense mechanisms all rolled into one where you're looking for approval,

Recognition,

Some type of kudos,

Compliments,

And when that's not there,

You start to see how frail the small self,

The mask is.

And so I spend a lot of time,

I spend probably most of my time over the last 25 years working with people around learning to,

As the Bible said,

Let your yay be yay and let your nay be nay.

If you can come to a very strong intuitive yes,

The Spirit-guided yes and the Spirit-guided no at times,

Then you keep a beautiful,

Miraculous,

Right-minded state of mind.

But once you start to let some of those yeses kind of bend because you're afraid of saying no,

Or some of the noes because you're afraid of saying yes,

That's where we get into all kinds of psychological anxiety and guilt.

Interesting.

So you're saying that as long as we are firmly rooted in a Spirit-driven yes or a Spirit-driven no,

We're not people-pleasing anymore.

When we're listening to that one voice and we're acting based on that guidance that we're receiving,

There's no need then to be concerned about everybody else.

Is that what you're saying?

Yeah,

That's exactly it.

The right-minded decisions made with our intuition with Spirit keep us scot-free of anxiety and fear and doubt and keep us in our strength.

We feel very empowered,

Very much like we are the light of the world,

Shining and sharing and extending.

And I would say too that as soon as you even make a prayer to the Spirit and you say,

Please help me,

My yeses be a firm yes and my noes be a firm no so I'm not wavering and waffling,

Then we're sent people in our lives that will give us an opportunity to practice this.

You may have somebody who,

Kind of like the old thing of,

You give them an inch,

They'll take a mile,

That comes into your life where you have to say no.

Sometimes a series of noes and the Spirit wants you to say no to that because in one sense it's not your strength and it's not helping them or you by trying to play into their defenses and their weaknesses.

And so I think it's beautiful just to have that authentic prayer and say,

Help me be true and let my yeses be yes and my noes be noes and then be ready for what comes.

Because usually we have a great opportunity to strengthen that prayer and really teach what we would learn.

Do you have any suggestions for those of us who maybe get to that place of being willing to say a Spirit-driven no and stay in that clear space,

But then all that gunk starts to come in again of,

Oh no,

Did I just offend them?

Or I just upset somebody,

They're not going to like me.

And we just kind of go right back into it.

Do you have any thoughts that come to mind about how to work with that when we feel like we've made that Spirit-driven decision,

But then all that stuff wants to come back in?

Well,

I can tell you what I did because I actually grew up in this world,

The early parable days of David.

I was very shy and I was voted most quiet in my senior class.

And I was extremely shy in my university years,

Even into my 20s,

My mid and late 20s.

And so I had a lot of people pleasing going on.

And then when I started to really tune into Spirit,

When I picked up the course when I was around 27,

I read through the whole book and I remember getting back to the end of the text about the self versus self-concept.

Like we have a Christ-self,

A real self,

A spiritual self,

And then we have this self-concept.

And the more I read about that,

I became more fascinated,

Like,

Wow,

Whenever I'm anxious,

Whenever I'm kind of shy and defensive and timid and everything,

I'm really clinging on to this self-concept of David the shy guy.

And that's where the problem's coming in.

So then I asked the Spirit,

I said,

What can I do in a proactive way that will help me loosen from this?

Because it seems like it will take me forever.

It's like a personality trait.

I don't think I have a chance.

Actually,

It's so solid.

And the Spirit said,

Well,

I want you to actively start questioning all of the thoughts and the beliefs that you have around who you are.

And start to actively question that.

Don't just think that,

Oh,

That's just the way it is and I was born that way and I'll always be that way and there's nothing I can do.

Start to question that and really look at that.

And so to me,

That really helped me start to undo the shyness,

Undo the people-pleasing.

And then I got so inspired by the Course,

As I know you have,

And then suddenly we get called into a life's calling where we're to be of help to ourselves and to others.

And the more we can be aware of those patterns that held us back in the past and those past associations in the mind,

The more we can let them go.

We have to be aware of them first.

So that was very helpful for me.

That's so helpful to hear.

And I love what you brought up with us about David the Shy Guy.

Because we have these stories and these things that we tell ourselves over and over and over again about ourselves.

And the interesting thing with your term of a personality trait is that we're taught in our psychology classes that personality traits are pretty fixed.

Maybe you can shift and change a little bit,

But there are certain,

I think it's traits versus states.

States are shifting,

But traits are solid.

And so we have this sort of ingrained idea that this is how I am and we can't change it.

And your method of starting to question everything about who you are,

To really uproot and dig in there with asking those types of questions,

I can really get that palpable sense of how that starts to loosen the grip of that belief that we are these personalities,

That we are these specific personality traits that are stuck.

It's amazing,

It's amazing.

I did meet a friend of mine who I worked in the same office with when I was in co-op in university.

I met her 10 years later after I'd been working with A Course in Miracles for 10 years.

And when she re-met me she said,

What happened to you?

She said,

You aren't even the same person.

It's the strangest thing,

She said,

Because we're accustomed to people kind of being set in their ways and these personality traits.

So I think it just is a good testament that if we have a really strong spiritual tool and a strong spiritual practice,

And we really give our heart and soul over to it,

Like with a lot of dedication and determination,

Then even things like personality traits can shift and change.

And I know you and I know,

Like with,

For example,

Ken Wapnick,

An amazing Course teacher in the early years,

And for quite a few years he stuttered,

But he just kept at it for year after year,

Decade after decade,

And then some of his talks in his later years,

The stutter was gone.

So that's another good example right there about how if you have dedication and devotion,

Then the Spirit can take over and use you and shape you in ways that will be a light of the world,

That will be helpful to everyone.

I didn't know that Ken Wapnick had a stutter.

I haven't seen any of his earlier talks.

Yeah,

Very strong.

Wow.

Wow.

What a beautiful example for all of us then of just another way of healing.

And I want to also go back to with that story of David the Shy Guy to bring this link into those of us who are listening,

Who are telling ourselves the story of like Corinne,

The anxious girl,

Or whoever,

You know,

Fill in your name,

That I have anxiety,

I have these struggles,

I have this,

I have that,

That we can start to question that,

That who am I?

Who is the I that thinks it has these things to begin to sort of loosen that grip?

Yeah,

That's it.

It's so important.

I mean,

I like to also show movies and use a lot of different tools because most of us are not taught to look so deeply into our identity.

We're kind of told,

You know,

This is what your background is,

This is the family you're from,

These are your strengths,

These are your weaknesses,

As if it's pretty set and solid.

But actually,

For me,

I found that as we go and question a lot,

Most people cannot question like self-inquiry like Ramana Maharshi on a daily basis,

Ask themselves,

Who am I?

It just doesn't even feel practical,

They feel silly asking that question so often.

But I do feel like we're onto it now,

That we see that that's how we become more stabilized,

More consistent in our state of mind,

More peaceful,

More loving,

Is by questioning and loosening from the beliefs that are down there.

And so,

I've drawn all kinds of maps of the mind that I received with perception on the outer ring and our emotions underneath perception and then the thoughts,

Cognition underneath the emotion.

And then our beliefs are underneath our cognition and thoughts,

And then at the very core of the mind is desire.

That's our point of power,

Our point of prayer.

But it takes such a strong focus with a desire to be shown another way to look at the world and to be shown a different way to look at our self and the world,

That it seems to take a lot of time to have that shift in a significant way.

Most people are used to little happy moments and glimpses here and there,

But to be consistently happy,

It almost takes an overhaul of your entire consciousness.

That's interesting.

So would you repeat again that desire is at the core of what?

You mentioned all those levels.

Yeah.

Well,

One time I asked Spirit,

Give me a map of the mind,

Because I was in university for 10 years and I was in graduate school,

In school psychology,

And when I got into the Course,

I said,

Could you show me a map?

And the outer ring was perception,

Like concentric circles,

And then right below that was the thoughts,

Or the feelings come right underneath the perception,

Then the thoughts underneath,

Then the beliefs,

And then the very core is desire.

So basically the way it works is,

Like the Course says,

You will look upon that which you feel within.

How whatever we're desiring radiates out and determines our beliefs,

Our thoughts,

Our emotions,

And our perceptions.

So the causation is inside,

Whereas we're raised with the ego to believe that there's environmental,

Hereditary,

Parental forces and causes that shape who we are and determine our emotions.

So as soon as I got into this,

With psychology and philosophy,

Then the Course,

I started to realize,

Wow,

It's all backwards,

That the causation starts right there with the core desire and emanates and radiates out there into consciousness.

And so I even made a website for this because it was so radical called levelsofmind.

Com,

Where I put these diagrams on and I put little worksheets on to help people start to turn it around,

Much like Byron Katie,

To turn around their thoughts and turn around their beliefs,

Because they're so deeply rooted that we may have anxiety on the surface of consciousness out there at the personal level,

But we may not know the roots that are underneath there.

So would you say that the roots,

When there is that anxiety on the surface,

Would you say that the desire is to be a separate self that we feel guilty about?

Yeah,

That's it.

There's some kind of a desire for something other than everything,

Or desire for more than perfection,

So that's what I call the tiny-man idea or ego in psychological terms,

Is the wish to be something I'm not,

Instead of Spirit to be physical,

To be concrete and specific instead of abstract light.

And then that's also the fall from grace that the Bible and a lot of spiritualities talk about,

Just that wish to be more than everything or to not know who we are.

That's the little teeny-shady thing in the middle,

That it's almost like our desire is so strong that if we even put a little sliver of something on it that's erroneous,

Then it projects out an entire cosmos that represents that little sliver of error.

I'm getting so excited over here because I really feel like I've made progress with shedding the anxious layers,

With dropping,

Letting the anxiety fall away,

Because my desire has shifted from wanting to play the story of Corinne to wanting more than anything to remember truth.

I feel emotional to remember that love,

So we have to want this more than anything.

We have to want this.

We have to want that desire to remember,

To know the love that we are,

To know the truth that we are,

To see,

To start to really see those big shifts that happen toward the surface.

Yeah,

There's actually a great quote from the Course and I've said it to myself over and over because I love it when the Course uses a word like that,

But it uses the word desire and it uses the word truth.

And the quote is,

Truth will be returned to your awareness by your desire,

As it was lost by your desire for something else.

So it's like,

Wow,

That one sentence for me explained everything.

I'm like,

Oh my God,

I just wanted to try something out and now I'm seeing,

I want to know love,

I want to know my real self more than anything now and it ignites our heart and then we start to get all these miracles that just start to be cascading that happen after we say,

Yep,

I'm going to put this number one and I'm going to go for this as my top priority.

I love that so,

So much.

So going back then to people pleasing,

The people pleasing is the fear of not keeping everybody happy is just one of those outside rings of,

You know,

A manifestation of still that desire to be a separate self.

Would you agree with that?

Yes,

Exactly.

So,

You know,

When we think about wanting to make people happy,

Even the Course says to heal is to make happy,

He's really talking about radiating that divine happiness from the core of our being,

Not trying to personally go around and make every person happy.

Because it gets crazy that way,

You know,

It seems like we never know the right combination and we can never always say the right words and it seems like an impossible situation until we become intuitive and right minded and let the Spirit take over.

Now let me ask you,

This is a question for me,

A very personal question,

Because I've noticed in my own journey,

As you said,

We find help through the Course and at some point we feel that calling to continue to help ourselves and to help others and so we step out and we share and we speak.

I've noticed in my own journey with doing this in the beginning,

The first time I wrote a blog post about the Course,

Feeling terrified of being attacked for like,

What is this Course,

You know,

Stuff that you're saying.

And as I have had that desire increase to remember love,

To wake up,

That fear of being attacked for speaking about the Course has diminished,

But of course there's,

You know,

Blips when it comes up,

Which ties into people pleasing of,

For instance,

Getting a negative YouTube comment from somebody who thinks this is just cockamamie or,

You know,

Whatever it may be,

Those haters as they're called,

You know,

Online.

I'm wondering what thoughts come forward for you just about dealing with those fears of being judged or attacked for what you're saying.

Yeah,

I think I faced some of those at the beginning because I was so shy and then,

You know,

I was like really shocked that the Spirit was talking to me and then the Spirit wanted to talk through me and I thought,

Oh my gosh,

How's that going to go?

My parents told me,

You know,

Never talk about God or politics in public and now you're going to go have me speak about these ideas in public.

I was like,

Ah,

But I do find that basically these are just opportunities for us to move through these fears,

To allow them to the surface and release them and so for yourself and myself,

You know,

We seem to have been called more in,

I would say,

A public way because there's a lot of great mystics and saints that have had much more quiet lives and they don't get out there as much and they aren't using the social media and things like we do.

We're just putting ourselves out there almost like as targets almost in this world.

So I was aware that there would be things that would seem to come at me and Jesus does say in the Course,

He says,

The role of the accuser will appear in many forms and it will seem to be accusing you but have no fear it will go at last.

It was like,

Oh,

Thank you,

A little pep talk,

Like this is going to come but just watch your emotions and it helped to remind me always that I could never be hurt by anything except my thoughts and that I was going through a purification so of course I was going to have egoic thoughts rising up into awareness but not to buy into the temptation that it was other people that were attacking me.

That it was just attack thoughts,

Ego attack thoughts that had to come into awareness for me to see them and release them and that way I could deal with it.

I thought I'm not going to that way get angry at anybody,

I'm just going to start to say I'm going to escape from the world I see by giving up these attack thoughts,

Lesson number 23 and so it worked out when I looked at it that way.

That's so helpful because you're not blaming the other or pointing the finger of like,

Oh,

They're just asleep or they have no idea or just judging and dismissing.

You're doing what the Course asks us to do and that is always bring it back to our own minds and looking at whatever that may be arising out there as a manifestation of our own attack thoughts that are coming up to be healed.

Yeah,

I know it is helpful and it also reminded me that attack itself is part of that dualistic belief system that you have to have an attacker and an attackee and once we come back to forgiveness over and over in this unified mind,

Unified awareness,

Then we have this relief that,

Oh my gosh,

That attack was never real,

It never had a reality to it,

It never,

Of course it doesn't come from God so it doesn't have any real basis and that's really what forgiveness is about,

Is starting to see what's false and to unplug from the false and just see it for what it is.

It's amazing that it's that simple,

Not that it's always easy,

We have to practice at it while we're going through this transformation but it is very simple.

I like that definition of forgive your brother for what he has not done instead of trying to think that you've been,

All these things that have been done to you and you've got all this evidence that you're supposed to paint it white like it's lilies.

It's really beautiful to start to see,

Oh my gosh,

I'm really seeing it,

I was really angry at fiction and I don't need to be angry at fiction.

That's awesome.

What a nice reframe,

I'm getting angry at fiction.

That's it.

What a wonderful,

Wonderful reframe,

That is fantastic.

So with thoughts and attack thoughts and I can escape the world I see by giving up attack thoughts,

There are no private thoughts is another teaching of the Course.

Can you tell us about how there are no private thoughts and what that means?

Well,

It's stunning the first time I read that in the early part of the workbook,

Where the Spirit was saying,

You have no private thoughts and yet that is all that you are aware of.

It's nice that he put those both in the same sentence because we don't want to get into denial.

He's saying from the ultimate reality,

You have no private thoughts,

Only the thoughts you think with God,

Only the thoughts you think with love are real and true.

Those are your real thoughts and yet your mind is full of these illusory private thoughts.

So the more I prayed on that I thought,

Wow,

Yeah,

I can see where all my thoughts of the past and my worries and thoughts of the future are part of a giant menagerie of thoughts that I call my real thoughts.

But that's not what the mind training is showing me,

That's not where this is headed.

It's headed towards stillness,

It's headed towards acceptance and pure love and light.

And so,

How do you practically go about exposing these private thoughts?

So the main thing I discovered was that the thing that keeps private thoughts in awareness is by hiding them.

In other words,

When you hide private thoughts,

It's like you're saying,

Oh they're real and they're dangerous and all hell can break loose if I share these private thoughts.

So really when we talk about exposing these and sharing these,

We're talking about sharing these thoughts with the Spirit,

Giving them over to the Spirit.

Not to say that we should go around and just speak all of our thoughts uncensored to everybody that we meet in the street and everybody in our family and our spouses,

But that it's the hiding of these thoughts that's keeping them in place.

So first of all,

I always tell people,

Go to the Spirit,

Just hand those over,

Say please take these from me.

And if you find that you have such a strong investment in them and you don't feel it's very authentic at all,

Like you're not really giving them over to Spirit,

That's when it may be,

If you're guided to be with somebody that's a good friend or a close friend,

A confidant,

Somebody who truly loves you and respects you and is working with you in the healing process,

That can be a place to start to expose some of these thoughts,

Just as a step towards giving them to the Spirit.

Because you want to realize,

You really want to get to a place of non-judgment with these thoughts.

And as long as they're suppressed and repressed and hidden,

Then they can't heal.

They just stay in the darkness.

That's so helpful,

David.

I have found,

Number one,

I'm grateful to hear you say that this isn't a teaching about saying all of our thoughts to everyone that we meet,

To our spouse,

Especially when we know that they're going to be hurtful if we express them.

But your distinguishing that this is about having no private thoughts from Spirit is huge,

And that a step in that direction can be at times to perhaps share them with another.

I just wanted to share that a tool that I found to be really helpful in that process that I've noticed for myself is a journal,

That if I just even get them out on paper,

If somebody read my journal,

They'd think I was probably the most miserable person in the world,

Because I really only write in it when I'm getting out those yucky thoughts.

Because just in my mind,

Trying to give them to Spirit seems to not be working,

But there really is something about getting it out,

Whether I'm speaking to somebody else or,

Like I just said,

On a journal,

On paper.

It's just such a relief.

Yeah,

I know.

I did so many journals for so many years,

And to me that was huge,

Because I was shy,

I had a lot of thoughts that were repressed,

And I did that as a way of getting them up and out.

And then I think in relationships,

If you have a very trusting relationship,

And also if you're of a like mind,

If you're on the same page and you understand the context of how harmful these thoughts are when they're hidden,

It just opens a context for you to share,

Much like people pay a therapist for.

When they pay a therapist for a number of months or years,

They're going,

Because it's a trusted client-therapist relationship where they can bring up these thoughts for healing,

For the purpose.

So I think the key for me is the purpose.

In other words,

This isn't like a venting session,

It's not something that you're trying to get rid of by putting them onto somebody,

Because that would be projection.

What it really is,

Is holding the space of love.

And often times in a lot of the practical work I do around the world,

Especially like in China and Japan,

Where there's a lot of repression,

Suppression,

People pleasing,

Cultural,

It's very thick and very deep.

Sometimes I'll do dyads even,

Where I'll have people sit and face each other in a very prayerful way.

And one person will play the presence of love and light and unconditional love and acceptance,

And the other person will speak all the thoughts that are coming up.

And the person who's playing the light and the love role will sometimes give a lesson from the Course or something very gentle and unconditionally loving.

And some people even have mystical experiences in these dyads because they've never given themselves an opportunity to do that.

Like you're talking about with the journals,

To do that with another person.

So,

I said the more confident you get with it and the more you see the value of it,

We will even have groups where everyone will be in prayer,

Holding the space,

In deep prayer and devotion,

And then one person can speak up in the group and just let up their private thoughts,

And they report how much healing they experience.

But it all comes down to the purpose.

It has to be a very strong devotional purpose for healing.

That sounds like such a powerful experience for those participants.

And you're actually reminding me of something that I did,

And I actually wrote about this in my book,

In the form of a meditation.

And that is having,

And I would do this with my eyes open,

So I'd actually get a picture,

And I suggest in my book,

It can be a picture of whoever you feel can see you with true vision.

Whoever it is that can see you with that unconditional love,

Whether it's a picture of Jesus or an angel or Buddha or whatever,

Your dog,

Whatever it may be.

And I suggest having a picture where you can make eye contact with that image and just even imagining that being seeing you with that unconditional love that you're describing can be just,

It reawakens something in us that something stirs in our hearts.

Oh yes,

Yeah that's lovely,

It's a lovely exercise.

I can see how that would have such an impact for people to allow themselves to feel that.

Yeah,

Definitely.

Earlier when you were speaking,

I had a question come to mind about this practical application of no private thoughts and recognizing that we do need to take them to spirit.

What about those really intense times though when we feel,

Let's say with our spouse,

We get angry,

Or our significant other,

Or best friend,

Whoever it is,

We get really upset because they've done something that has triggered us and yet we know that it is our judgment that is really the problem here,

But we're still angry at them anyway.

It's that point of having the intellectual understanding of what's happening,

But the experience of still being an ego and being a bit ticked off.

In a situation like that,

Do you have any thoughts come to mind about what we can do with this idea of no private thoughts,

When we feel stuck,

Like if we're not able yet to give it to spirit?

Yeah,

Well it reminds me a little bit of rules for decision in the Course where,

You know,

As soon as we've gotten off into that stuck point,

Where we're angry and we're closed and we're shut down,

That is the most difficult point of the whole spiritual journey,

No doubt.

Because the mind is in a mode where it would rather be right about something in the past than be happy.

And Jesus even says in his rules for decision,

You know,

He's got these six rules for decision,

That it's easier if you don't let your peace of mind,

Your happy day slip away.

It's easier if you can stay with the first two rules of decision,

But once you get off into what you're describing,

It takes another three,

Four,

Five,

Six to try to get back.

And it's much more complicated and it's much more difficult,

Because we have to have a sliver of a crack.

Maybe I would rather be happy than right.

Maybe I would rather be wrong about what I'm perceiving here and staying stuck.

And,

You know,

Even when,

If we're so convinced we want to be right,

That even if a neighbor came by or a best friend,

Another friend rang the doorbell,

It's still hard to break out if we're convinced we want to be right.

You know,

We'll start to try to collect more evidence and,

Here,

Listen to my side of the story and all this and that.

So,

Because of that,

Once I realized how difficult that was,

I thought,

I'm going to go make this my life.

I am not going to use A Course in Miracles as some kind of band-aid thing or some kind of a rescue remedy.

I thought,

I'm going to live a life that's so inspired by Spirit,

That's so given over to the light,

That's so devoted to this love,

That I don't slide off because it's harder to get back.

So,

I would rather be on the beam and consistently on the beam than find myself in a very difficult situation,

Of course,

That all of us have been to,

And we know how tough it is.

So,

I'm not so much into trying to find rescue formulas.

I'm into,

They used to call it,

Preventative medicine.

I'm into,

Do only that.

Do what is true,

What is real,

What is right,

What is helpful,

And stay lit up in that.

And then,

That's going to be your strength.

That's going to keep you from those other situations.

Yeah,

That's so helpful.

And your reference for rules for decision,

I think,

Is a really,

Really important one that we can turn to,

For those of us listening who perhaps get into those situations.

Because doesn't it even take us down to like,

At least I can decide I don't like how I feel right now?

Yeah,

That's the big turning point.

At least I can decide.

It's still bringing it back to your power of decision.

But at least I can decide I don't like how I feel now.

And then,

It also takes us to a place of,

I forgot the question.

In other words,

I originally was told to decide the kind of day that I wanted,

And if I would make no decisions by myself,

Then that's the day that would be given me.

But as soon as we forget all about our happy day,

And all about our peace of mind that we really wanted,

Then we open to ego questions.

And one time I was asking Spirit,

I said,

Can you give me an example of an ego question that would ruin my happy day?

And the Spirit said,

Yeah.

Every time that happens,

It's always one version of this question.

And the question is,

Of these illusions,

Which do I prefer?

That's always the sneaky ego coming in,

Where we've forgotten that all the illusions are equally unreal in the miracle,

And we've made a hierarchy,

And we've somehow made it,

You know,

My husband needs to smile at me today for me to have a happy day,

And I'm not going to be happy until my husband smiles at me,

Or some version of that,

And that's where we always get stuck.

That's a big one,

Of these illusions,

Which do I prefer?

That encompasses the good ones too,

Right?

Yes,

It does.

Yeah,

It's not just the painful ones,

It's the happy things that we think like you just said,

Once my husband smiles the right way,

Then I'll have the right day,

Or once I go on vacation,

Then everything,

I'll be feeling better then.

So it's even that seemingly happy things that can be those hooks.

So this really is a moment-to-moment practice.

Yes,

It is,

Because actually if there's no hierarchy of illusions,

Then that's where our peace of mind comes in,

But many of us have had,

You know,

You're going to your favorite restaurant,

Out of all the restaurants,

And you want to get your favorite dish and they don't have it,

You know,

Or on your birthday or something like that,

We can all relate to the disappointment that comes,

And that's related to the same thing.

We're still,

We've got some kind of expectation in mind,

And the Spirit's like saying,

No,

Just trust and be open.

Let all things be exactly as they are.

You are such a living demonstration of this work.

I think about,

I was fortunate enough to be with you at the Happy Dream Retreat,

When your place in Mexico was just sort of coming about,

And that I remember sounding like such a demonstration of this trust that you just,

If I'm remembering correctly,

Had a really good feeling about the place,

But you know,

Had no means of purchasing it at all,

And then things just sort of worked out where suddenly you're given an opportunity to purchase that property,

And there wasn't ever any,

You were open the whole time.

I just remember being so struck by how open to the outcome,

Whatever,

However it was going to unfold,

That you all were.

Yeah,

I find that's the only way to live,

Is that you stay open because you want things to be used as reflections of love and for this high calling,

But without something that's like demanding it be a certain way,

You know,

Love makes no demands,

And for us to really be the presence of love and remain in that presence,

We have to let go of those demands and expectations.

So,

I think that travel has helped me too.

You mentioned at the beginning all the countries and continents and things.

I think for most of us who do even a little travel,

We see that it's always an adventure,

Because we may not even be aware of some of our unconscious food expectations or climate expectations,

Or maybe we expect to be treated a certain way,

And we go somewhere and somebody doesn't treat us that way,

Then it certainly helps us get into our unconscious belief system.

Even in my experience with travel,

Even seeing how attached we can be to just the comfort of the body,

You know,

Is the pillow going to be the right type of pillow that I like?

Do I need to bring my own?

And how focused am I going to have the right clothes?

Will I be warm enough,

Cool enough?

Even just getting to see that,

How focused I am at least on wanting the body to be comfortable.

So,

Travel is great like that.

It is,

And to be light with it.

I see it as an adventure.

Like every time we travel and we have those things going on,

Spirit's like,

Oh thank you for being so willing to even do this,

You know,

To be aware of these things.

And so,

I just feel how the angels are just cheering us on at every turn,

And I keep being reminded of how grateful everything and everyone is that we're willing to heal and become happy,

Because that's our purpose.

Beautiful,

Beautiful.

You know,

I would love to just touch back,

I know we're getting close to the top of our time together,

But I'd love to go back to this idea of no private thoughts.

And you mentioned in some other countries,

Culturally,

Repression,

Suppression.

And even if we live in a country maybe that's different than that,

Just for many of us,

When we don't feel,

When we're not bringing our feelings to Holy Spirit or our thoughts,

And we do repress and suppress and keep those things in,

Do you have any thoughts to share just about that and really the importance of not repressing and suppressing?

Well,

I know that I started going to Communist China about maybe five or so years ago,

Five or six years ago,

And what had happened was all these teachings I've been sharing for some decades had been translated into Mandarin,

And spread all over Communist China.

So when I got there,

People came and they came from all over.

They made huge pilgrimages from all parts of China to be in my presence.

I remember going to airports and having bouquets of lilies and flowers given to me.

I felt like,

Oh,

This is what Ama feels like when people come bearing flowers and everything.

Because what they sensed,

Not only from my teachings but also from everything that they'd heard,

Was that they could pour out their deepest,

Darkest feelings and thoughts,

Their rage,

Their hurt,

Their pain.

And when I tried to even do little expression sessions where they could pour their hearts out to me,

I said,

Well,

How many people?

We have a hundred people here,

You take some.

I had like 25 people around me in what's hardly a small group,

And they would put chairs in the middle of the 20,

The 25,

And then they would each take turns pouring their hearts out so they could feel that love.

So I would say that even with places where it seems to be much more systematic repression,

Like in China,

That underneath people know that that's the way to heal.

That if they can expose and be loved,

If they can expose and not be judged,

If they can just have one witness that helps show them the Spirit,

That the thoughts have no effect on who they are,

It doesn't take away their innocence and their purity,

They explode,

They cry,

They laugh,

They dance.

I had dance parties over in China where people went through the catharsis of all this heaviness and then they would dance.

I found too that even with,

For example,

The government,

The communist government,

People would say,

I have listened to you speak and you're just so universally loving but you never blame anything of this world.

You always just talk about a shift in perception and a change of thoughts.

They said,

Even the communist government wouldn't be against you,

David,

Because you're not advocating for or against government.

And a lot of them,

That was their main issue.

They felt like they lived in a repressed government and they had all this stuff projected onto the government.

So I feel like we are discovering the gateway back to nirvana,

To heaven.

It is something that's so spectacular,

We want to give it away,

We want to share it,

We want to tell everybody from the treetops how wonderful this is.

And I find that when people have the allowance to let it up in a place of love and acceptance,

They see for themselves how freeing it is.

And once they discover that,

They never will go back.

They never will go back to hiding again in their mind.

I so relate to that because in my own experience,

Those times when I've gotten glimpses of what it's like to remember truth,

What it's like to remember love,

That shedding,

That catharsis that you're describing,

I always have that thought,

You know,

Why did I defend against this in the first place?

It's not scary.

I'm not losing anything.

I'm just coming into more of who I truly am,

Who we all truly are.

And what a beautiful,

Freeing,

Happy,

Joyous feeling that is.

Yeah,

There's no loss involved.

That's the thing.

All of us have thought about sacrifice and,

You know,

It is not a loss at all.

And it's almost like,

You know,

For all of this joy and happiness,

I actually gave up nothing.

You know,

It's an amazing experience.

It's amazing.

It is.

David,

I can't thank you enough for spending this time with me today and with the listeners.

I know that we're going to have so many comments and wonderful feedback and good takeaways.

I'm wondering if you have any takeaway that comes to mind for you right now that you'd like to leave with folks.

Well,

I would just,

The thing that's coming to mind is,

I find watching movies helps us emote,

Get in touch with our emotions.

Most people who watch them,

You know,

Get all wrapped up and all these emotions come up.

But that's good,

Because it helps us get in touch with some of the things that we need to get in touch with.

So,

If you really want to see a good movie for healing,

It involves some,

The title is Thelma.

And it's a Norwegian movie.

It was made in Norway and it won some awards.

But it's about a young woman who moves to Copenhagen,

Or not to Copenhagen,

To Oslo from living with her family.

And basically opens up her emotions because there was a lot of repression going on.

But she has some seizures and she has some supernatural abilities,

A very powerful mind too,

Which is a great combination of healing.

And so I think I'm going to maybe use that on an online retreat I'm doing and try to use it to the max.

But if you get a chance,

That movie or some other ones we have on our Movie Watchers Guide to Enlightenment,

Mwge.

Org,

That can help you really get in touch with that unconscious mind and start to move through in a faster way.

Because it's not so threatening when you're watching it on the screen.

That's true.

David,

I love you.

Thank you so much for being here today.

That was so helpful.

Everything.

Everything you shared.

Thank you,

Corinne.

Thank you.

God bless.

It's been beautiful.

I am so inspired by this episode and I hope you are too.

In addition to David's takeaway,

I have some takeaways for you.

It was really hard for me to pick only three,

Which is what I was aiming for,

And I got carried away.

So I'm giving you five,

Even though I could have picked more.

So number one,

My first takeaway.

Let your yay be yay and your nay be nay.

Get clear with spirit on whether your answer needs to be yes or no.

As David says,

You can ask spirit for help in being true to your yeses or your nos.

Staying aligned with your guidance helps keep us free from anxiety.

Takeaway number two in our discussion on people pleasing.

David shared that we make others happy by radiating.

This is his quote by radiating that divine happiness from the core of our being,

Not trying to personally go around and make every person happy.

I love this.

Our job as miracle workers is to see with spirit's vision and spread love.

It's not about making the level of form happy for others.

So goodbye,

People pleasing.

Number three.

I love this course miracles quote that David shared.

It is truth is restored to you through your desire as it was lost to you through your desire for something else.

So we have to want the truth.

We have to want healing.

We have to want to undo the ego.

So ask yourself with radical honesty if you want these things and whatever your answer is,

Be willing to look at it with spirit.

My fourth takeaway.

Don't hide your thoughts from spirit.

Don't hide your thoughts.

Don't hide your feelings.

Bring everything to spirit,

Whether you begin journaling or speaking to another person that you trust.

Get those hidden and repressed ego thoughts out of your holy mind so you can bring them to spirit instead.

And finally,

My fifth takeaway.

If you get stuck,

For instance,

If you're angry and you intellectually know that your anger isn't justified,

But you're still stuck in that anger,

In other words,

You'd rather be right instead of happy.

Go back to the rules for decision part in the course.

You can experiment with the question.

At least I can decide I do not like what I feel now.

And you can take your willingness to feel and see something different to spirit.

You can read the full section in Chapter 30,

Part 1,

And that's in both the Foundation for Inner Peace and Circle of Atonement editions.

So that's Chapter 30,

Part 1.

If you want access to these takeaways,

Visit the show notes at fromanxietytolove.

Com forward slash episode 12.

I love you.

Thank you for listening.

If you benefited from this episode of from anxiety to love radio,

Someone else you know can benefit,

Too.

The biggest compliment you can give is to share about the show on social media and to leave a review on iTunes.

Thank you so much for doing so.

I read every single review.

Now,

If you are ready to take your inner work to the next level,

Pick up my book from anxiety to love anywhere books are sold and sign up for my free crash course on undoing anxiety with a course in miracles.

It's available at fromanxietytolove.

Com forward slash crash course.

Thank you so much for tuning in,

And I will see you on the next episode.

Reviews

I am inspired by this talk and focus on people pleasing. Family training is still being undone on that! Happiness is more accessible with when I remember I can’t change others.
Peace and play,
TLC

Thirty years ago, when I first bought the Course in Miracles, I thought I was ready, but I wasn’t. The books were donated to charity. After listening to Corrine and David, I feel called back towards the course. Very enlightening and inspiring! Thank you 🙏