Dr Wayne Dyer On I Can See Clearly Now, And Saje Dyer

Thisi is the last interview I did with Wayne Dyer, just a few months before he transition in August of 2015. I also talk to his daughter Saje Dyer. Wayne talks about his autobiography, I Can See Clearly Now. He talks about how forgiveness changed his life. Very insightful and special conversation.

Transcript

Aloha,

I'm Cindy Palos here on Talk Story,

The longest running talk show on Maui.

It's been 24 years now.

It's a pleasure to be able to introduce a man who I think is one of the world's most inspirational speakers,

Has the author of over 40 books and many,

Many DVDs,

Thousands of radio and TV shows.

And his new book,

I just finished reading,

I can see clearly now.

I believe it took a lifetime to write.

Aloha,

Dr.

Wayne Dyer,

How are you?

I'm great,

Cindy.

Nice to talk to you on the radio,

Other than just in person like we usually do.

Well,

You know,

You are truly one of the most,

And I'm saying this from my heart,

One of the most generous people I've ever met.

A lot of people don't know you personally,

And I've had the honor to have known you.

And I know some of the stories of the people you've helped.

And when I asked you to come to my book signing,

You know,

In your very,

Very,

Very busy schedule,

You took the time out to do it.

You constantly are giving to people,

And I don't know quite how you can do it with your busy,

Busy life,

But you seem to always be able to help.

And this talk is an example of you giving back.

Yes,

I like to do things,

You know,

To reach out to others.

I think giving,

I've always said if you're not generous when it's hard,

You won't be generous when it's easy.

And it's sort of what defines my life.

I was dancing with my flame when I was in high school.

Her name was Earlene,

And I think it was our 40th high school reunion.

And she said,

The thing I remember about you,

Wayne,

More than anything else,

Is that you were always the one that was giving everything away.

You know,

There were kids that didn't have enough food,

Because I lived in an orphanage and places like that,

And there was some hunger.

And she said,

You used to give your lunch or your sandwiches away,

Or you'd bring in extra things for people.

And she said,

I just remember you.

The one word was generosity.

So yeah,

That's fine.

I like being thought of that way.

And this thing for Seabury Hall,

I mean,

This school is,

I'm actually giving a scholarship to a young lady who's in the seventh grade there.

You know,

It's an expensive place to go,

But it's a school that focuses on all aspects of one's education.

So many of the public schools now don't have music,

They don't have art,

They don't have athletics,

They've cut out all the,

What I think of as the most important things that we have going for ourselves.

It isn't just math and science and English that we ought to be mastering,

But we need to be complete human beings.

And this is one of the best schools in the world,

As far as I know.

And I've been an educator my whole life.

I love the school.

I've met the headmaster.

I've been out there at a lot of their performances.

And I said,

Well,

I will do it.

I won't take any money for it.

And all the book sales,

Everything that's there will all go to creating an opportunity for some students to go who couldn't otherwise go financially.

It's what we're all about.

That is a great gift because it is one of those great schools,

And you're so right,

They have such a great performing arts department and everything.

Oh my goodness,

Yeah.

Did you know that their entire senior class graduates,

Everyone went on to college?

Every single person went on to college.

Yeah.

Pretty impressive.

You know,

You truly hit so many amazing points.

I thought I knew you,

But little did I know.

When I read this book,

I couldn't believe your history.

You go into everything.

And it kind of,

For me,

When I was able to read it,

Kind of really completed the whole picture of you and everything from your very hard young life and how each time you faced those challenges you were presented with.

And when other people read this book,

I am convinced that they will also be able to learn how to address these challenges,

Whether it be forgiveness or healing or what you do when you are faced with choices to make,

Which road to take.

It's all covered in this amazing book.

Well,

That was the whole idea in writing it.

I didn't want to write a memoir.

I'm too young to write a memoir.

I'm only 73,

So I'm just getting started.

Well,

You only look 60.

Yeah,

Well,

Thank you.

And it wasn't just like I was going to write something where everybody would know about me.

The whole purpose was to have anybody who reads it look at all of the circumstances and the events and the people and the things that showed up in your life at various times.

And you look back on them as you step back and you realize,

Oh my goodness,

If I hadn't had that experience,

And some of them aren't just such pleasant experiences,

I wouldn't have been able to move in.

There's some kind of divine guidance that I always say is moving the checkers around.

It's like a great big checkerboard.

And even the negative ones,

They say even the darkest thread in a tapestry adds beauty to the tapestry itself.

So the hard times in our life add beauty to our life and being able to be aware of it at the moment and to make those kinds of choices.

So I wanted to write a book that would help other people and to use the thing that I know the best,

That is my own personal experiences and my own sort of awakenings to a realization that there is something grand and divine that is moving all the pieces around in everybody's life and tuning into it can make our lives just much,

Much more fruitful and beneficial.

And I did find that,

You know,

It's funny this morning I was thinking about talking to you and I read a quote that,

You know,

Alan Cohen sends out his little quotes every day and he wrote something that was interesting.

The ego attempts to use spirit for its purposes and always fails.

The spirit uses ego for its purposes and always succeeds.

And you know,

When I was reading your book,

I couldn't help but apply it to my life and what I would have done.

And I have to say many times,

I don't think I would have taken the chances that you took when you were really in a comfortable position and you decided to move on.

At a young age,

I was teaching metaphysics in Los Angeles and I kind of felt that it was just building up my ego too much and I used that as an excuse at that time to stop teaching and then I realized,

Oh my gosh,

All these years later it was really my ego that I was,

You know,

The ego can sometimes play tricks with you.

Absolutely,

Well,

It doesn't want to take no for an answer.

The ego,

I mean,

It's just always trying to tell you that who you are is what you accomplish and what you own and what other people think of you and this ego is,

You know,

Muktananda calls it our false self.

You know,

It's just not a real recognition of the divinity that is within each and every one of us.

So we just sort of massage this ego and let it make all the decisions for us and there's something inside of us that is burning that always says,

No,

I'm here for something greater and grander than that.

And you have to be willing.

What you're talking about here is not so much risk-taking as it is the whole idea of determination.

You know,

You just have to have a sense of this is what I'm here for and I know that this is what I have to do and I know there's going to be a lot of people who aren't going to like it,

Who aren't going to agree with it and who are going to try to persuade me to do something differently.

But for me,

It's always been just listening to that inner voice that speaks very clearly to me.

You have so many examples of this challenge in your life when you could have gone one way and stayed comfortable.

Of course,

That happened in school,

You know,

When you could have stayed as a teacher.

Even in Guam,

When you were in the U.

S.

Navy,

You could have not said something about,

You know,

Things that were not correct or not moral.

Chapter after chapter,

I see where you could have just kept quiet,

But instead you found a way to be determined and follow your inner self.

But you do show something and I think maybe it will help people when you do go through a process,

You explain to people in this book that it's not always easy to decide which way to go in following your own inner voice.

And I was wondering,

Which was,

And there's so many in your life,

Was there one that stands out that was much harder to make as a decision that was life changing?

Well,

Let me go back for just a second.

I don't know if you've ever read Napoleon Hill,

Think and Grow Rich?

No,

I haven't.

Yeah,

It was a really powerful book.

I read it many,

Many,

Many years ago.

And he said that,

You know,

Because my mentor and teacher as a young doctoral student was Abraham Maslow.

And Maslow talks about self-actualizing people as being people who reach a place in their lives where they become independent of the good opinion of other people and they become detached,

Sort of,

From outcome.

And they never place anything into their imagination that they do not want to manifest into reality for themselves.

And these are people that live at an elevated level of consciousness.

And Napoleon Hill said that these people that Maslow describes had one quality within them that separated them from everybody else.

And his book,

Think and Grow Rich,

Wasn't so much about how to make a lot of money.

It was how to live a really enriched life.

And,

You know,

Prosperity is one of the things that's the result of that.

And he said that one quality,

The one thing that separates people from those who reach these exalted levels of higher consciousness and those who sort of go through and live an ordinary life is something that he called a burning desire.

And a burning desire is very,

Very different than in all of the desires that we have in our lives.

It's a desire that's like having an inner candle flame that never flickers,

That the worst goes before you.

It doesn't matter what's going on outside of you,

This inner kind of knowing that this is what I'm here for,

This is what I have to accomplish.

Most people don't do it.

Most people aren't going to like,

You know,

Doing it.

And you just listen to it anyway.

And probably the most,

One of the most difficult things in my life was I talk about when I was 34 years old.

It was 1974,

And I went to my father's grave.

My father is a man who just walked out on us when we were,

When my mother had three little boys under the age of four.

He never looked back.

He never sent any support.

He spent some time in prison.

He was an alcoholic.

He was abusive.

And he just disappeared from our lives.

And consequently I spent ten years or so in a series of foster homes and orphanages and so on.

And it was in 1974 that I was just directed to his grave site,

Where he had been dead for the previous ten years,

And I didn't even know it.

And I was able to forgive my father.

I mean,

It was a very dramatic moment.

I mean,

It would take,

I don't have enough time to tell you all the details of it.

But it was one of the riskiest,

Some people call it risky things that I ever did,

Because at that time in my life I was overweight,

I was drinking,

I had done some drugs.

My writing just wasn't going anywhere.

I'd written some textbooks.

I was overweight.

I wasn't eating healthy.

I was in a terrible relationship.

Things just weren't going well in my life.

And I got that rage out of me by going there and doing something.

I went to his grave in Biloxi,

Mississippi,

Not to celebrate his life,

But I went there to pee on his grave.

I mean,

That was basically what I was going to do.

I was so angry and so filled with hatred toward this man and all that I had ever heard about him,

And some invisible divine guidance,

Which I think is always there when we call things risk-taking.

It's very often,

It's a higher part of ourselves that is saying,

No,

This is what you're here for.

This is what you have to do.

And when I went back to the gravesite after being so angry for about two hours,

It was the 30th of September,

Of August rather,

In 1974,

And I went back and I just,

Something just told me,

Let go of this,

Let go of this rage,

Let go of this anger.

And the words came out of my mouth out loud.

I said to a grave marker on the ground,

Because he was buried in a little field for indigent people,

Indigent people who had died of,

He died of cirrhosis of the liver in New Orleans and his body was shipped out there.

And I walked away,

I walked back to the grave,

I said,

From this moment on,

I send you love.

Who am I to judge you in any way?

We all do what we knew how to do.

And Cindy,

Everything in my life turned around.

I went back.

Did you feel his presence,

Wayne?

I still feel it.

I feel it right now as I'm even sitting here talking to you,

Whenever his name comes up.

And I often go on stage to speak and I never really know exactly what it is that I'm going to say.

It's just all,

I just let it all come out.

And very often I just start telling that story or something about it.

And I feel him around me all the time.

I feel that,

In fact,

I did a film about him,

It's called My Greatest Teacher,

And I think he was probably the greatest teacher in my life,

Because he taught me something and I never even met the man.

I mean,

I don't even have any memory of him.

I was under a year old when he just walked out.

I was the youngest of three when he walked away.

And it was that act of,

And who knows,

He may have incarnated into this world to do one thing so that his youngest son could experience this level of forgiveness and then teach other people about it and really do something transformative in the world.

So who knows?

I mean,

In an infinite universe we all have an infinite number of lifetimes.

Maybe that was one that he chose just for that purpose.

And I can't help but wonder,

You have this huge family,

All these daughters,

And I've never asked you why so many S's in their names.

There's what,

There's Sky,

And of course Sage is going to call in,

There's some other S's too.

Oh there are.

There's Jane and Stephanie and Sky and Summer and Serena and Sans and Sage.

What's with the S?

You know,

It just sort of started out that way.

And we didn't have any,

We had to stop having kids.

My wife often says we should have named them Stop at about four,

But we had eight.

And they've all been beautiful.

And we just,

We started out with S's and then we didn't want to make it so somebody felt that they were left out.

And maybe you wouldn't have had so many children,

But the father in you,

You're an excellent father and look at how beautiful your children are.

And I think maybe that,

Couldn't that be part of the fact that you didn't have a father that you wanted to be such a great father?

Well I never,

I never even think of myself as a great father.

I don't even know how to,

You know,

And I've written an entire book on how to raise children and what do you really want for your children.

I wrote it many,

Many years ago.

And it was based on trying to raise children to become self-actualized.

I never think of myself as a great father.

I've always allowed my children to fulfill their own Dharma,

Their own destiny.

I've never told them how to behave or what to do or how to do it.

I never,

You know,

Put a lot of attention on what grades they got at school.

I didn't ask for the report cards unless they wanted to show them.

Didn't put curfews on them.

You know,

Encourage them to listen to their own inner world.

I didn't impose a religion on them,

Told them to explore them all and to,

You know,

Take whatever teachings resonate with you.

It was never a,

It was never anything,

It's like,

You know,

Khalil Gibran,

You know,

The great poet,

The Lebanese poet from the Prophet,

He said,

Your children are not your children.

He said they are the products of life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not for you.

So that's very true in the case of Sage,

Right?

It's true,

Very true in the case of Sage.

In fact,

I wrote a whole chapter about,

Just about her conception,

You know,

And that she had a voice in coming into this world.

We had had five,

We had four children in seven years and we were really,

Really working very hard to make sure that that didn't happen again,

Practicing as much control as we possibly could and we were away on a trip,

We were down in Australia and in the middle of the night,

In the middle of the night,

Sage always says way too much information,

You know.

But in the middle of the night my wife behaved in a way that she had never behaved before or nor did she ever after that.

She woke up from a dead sleep,

Started moving furniture around,

Moving,

We had two little children with us.

One was,

One was still nursing,

One was only a year old,

The other one was,

Was three.

She moved them all around,

Got into bed with me and Sage was knocking on somebody's shoulder and saying,

Hey,

I've got to get in here,

You guys wake up,

I don't have too much more time,

You're the parents I need.

And I've always believed that we,

You know,

We have more of a role in choosing who our parents are,

You know,

Long before we ever even are conceived into this world.

I absolutely believe that.

Yeah.

I absolutely believe that.

Well,

I have absolute proof of it.

I mean,

This is like,

Because we came away,

You know,

From that experience with another little baby in my wife's womb and it's still,

It's still,

I wrote a poem about it.

I even included it in the book because it was like,

It was absolute proof that there is something bigger,

You know,

Than our own little egos deciding all of these things that we think of as life-changing events.

That is so true.

And a life-changing event for you,

I know Sage is going to call in in a minute,

But life-changing event for you was leaving everything.

You told your assistant,

You said to sell everything in Florida and you left it all behind and you.

.

.

To come to Maui.

To come to Maui.

It was the,

It was the day I turned 65 on May the 10th in 2005 and on May the 11th I called my assistant who had worked for me for,

No,

20,

She's worked with me with Mao for 35 years.

So,

And I said,

I've been called,

I've been reading a lot about the Tao,

The Tao to Ching and Lao Tzu.

I had just read a book by James Fry called A Million Little Pieces in which the Tao was all over the place.

It came to me that my friend Stuart Wild,

I don't know if you ever met Stuart Wild,

But he was a wonderful man and wrote a lot,

A lot of books.

He was a great teacher in my life and he encouraged me to read the Tao,

Which I did,

But I didn't think too much about it.

And then it just all come coming at me and I was at a restaurant in Las Vegas and the name of the restaurant we all decided to go to that night was called the Tao in a,

Tao meaning T-A-O which means the great way in the ancient Chinese.

Tao to Ching,

Tao means the great way,

T-E means the virtue of and Ching means book.

So the Tao to Ching is really 81 short verses on the book of the virtue of living the great way,

Leading a life of higher awareness and higher consciousness.

Some call it the greatest book ever written.

I believe we have Sage on the line.

Is this Sage?

Yeah,

This is Sage.

Hey Sage,

You're live on the air with your father.

Oh wow,

Okay.

Hi dad.

Hi sweetheart,

How are you my dear?

I'm good,

How are you?

Are you behaving?

Are you doing everything that I told you to do?

Are you,

No?

No.

None of those things,

Right.

Well,

You know,

We were talking Wayne about.

Sage by the way,

Just got accepted at NYU into the master's program because she's an incredible student and I'm so proud of her.

Congratulations honey,

She's going to New York.

Oh my gosh,

And you have a degree in psychology Sage?

Yeah,

I have a bachelor's degree in psychology and now I'll be getting my master's.

So I'm actually heading back to New York tomorrow.

I've just been packing and everything,

Very exciting.

So I mean,

Where do you think that influence of getting,

Becoming a psychologist came from?

Possibly my dad.

Possibly.

Yeah.

Possibly.

And so,

You know,

You said Wayne,

How you give everyone freedom and your children really have a lot of freedom.

Well,

We were talking about being a great dad and all of that,

You know,

And I just always,

I kind of blanch at that because I've just,

You know,

I never had any preparation for it.

I never had a father,

No training for it at all.

Didn't,

In fact,

I was seven years old before I even knew what the word father meant.

You know,

When somebody talked about their daddy and I didn't even know what they were talking about because all the places that I had lived there were no fathers,

You know.

And that was also during the war,

During World War II when I was just very,

Very young and most of the fathers were off,

You know,

Fighting and getting killed someplace around the world to try to make democracy available to all of us.

But,

So I've just always done what seemed to be the natural thing,

Which was to treat them the way I always wanted to be treated.

Because one of the things I know for sure,

I say,

Before I had any children,

I had eight theories about how to raise children.

Now I have eight children and I have no theory at all about how to raise children because each one of them is so unique and so different.

But the thing I knew for sure,

Cindy and Sage and anyone listening,

Is that nobody likes being told what to do.

You know,

That whole line,

You've probably heard it if you're a mom,

You know,

That,

You know,

You're not the boss of me,

You're not the boss of me.

You can't tell me what to do,

Those words that come out of every child in the world.

Have you said that,

Sage?

Yes,

I think I probably said that a lot.

Not just to me,

But to anybody,

Especially her older siblings,

Who would try to tell her what to do.

Uh-huh.

So.

.

.

Yeah,

But no,

What he's saying is definitely true.

I mean,

There were even times I wanted my parents to tell me what to do and they still wouldn't.

You know,

My dad would always say,

Even in this school process,

Applying to NYU and other schools and then deciding where I wanted to go,

You have to decide,

It's not my choice,

It's not my life.

So.

.

.

Yeah,

And not only that,

Cindy,

But our children were all raised to,

You know,

They dressed themselves in the morning as soon as they were able to do that.

You know,

Even in first,

Fifth,

You know,

Grade five in kindergarten,

Grade one rather,

When they were five years old,

They were not given,

They were not told what time to go to bed.

They weren't given curfews.

They weren't told,

They were really raised to have a mind of their own.

Yeah.

Basically,

Parenting is like this.

Parenting is not for leaning.

It's not to make children lean.

It's to make leaning unnecessary.

You know what?

People can lean on you and have to come to their mom or their dad for every little decision that they make.

My mother used to say,

She wrote a poem to me one time when I got my Ph.

D.

,

The day I got it,

And she said,

You know,

A mother can but guide,

Then step aside.

Just guide and step aside.

And that's kind of been my philosophy of how to raise children.

Well,

In your book,

You talk quite a bit about how you became self-reliant because of the way you grew up and what a gift that was being self-reliant.

Absolutely.

In an orphanage,

There are no parents,

You know,

And some people think that's terrible,

But other people say,

Wow,

This is a great place.

There's no parents.

You know,

We have to,

But I did have a brother that was with me who was very,

Very sick and was smaller than me,

Even though he was a year older than me.

And he got bullied a lot,

So I kind of had to take care of my brother as well.

And you saved his life later.

Yes.

I was called upon to save his life when he was there.

It was one of the key moments in my life,

And it may have been a great way to lead into the story about why Sage is on the phone.

Because in 1940,

I think it was 48,

I was eight years old,

Eight was nine.

He got into the swift currents trying to find a sandbar in the St.

Clair River up in Ontario,

And he dove into the water,

Swam out there,

And then the sandbar had,

The water was like a foot deeper than it had been a year before,

And he was going under,

And the currents were taking him away.

And I went screaming into the customs office,

There was a man in there named Bill Lang,

And I screamed,

And he was taking care of the business.

And I said,

My brother's drowning,

My brother's drowning,

You've got to,

And we got into a boat,

We went out there.

And the last second before his hand went under for the last time,

Somebody just was able to reach down and grab him and pull him out,

And we got the water out of his lungs.

And he came so close to death,

He was all gray and so on.

And for the rest of his life,

For many,

Many,

Many years,

Until many,

Many years later,

Whenever it would rain and a drop would hit him someplace on the arm or on his hand,

It would turn into a hive.

He could never go into it,

He couldn't even take showers.

I mean,

He was just so,

He had some kind of inner terror about that.

And then about 27 years later,

It was 1976,

And he was in the Army,

He was stationed at Fort Riley,

Kansas.

I had just written a book called Your Erroneous Owns that was topping the bestseller charts,

And it was my sort of introduction into the whole world of publishing and so on.

And I was there visiting,

I was giving a,

Actually giving a talk in Kansas City,

And drove over there with my youngest daughter,

Or my oldest daughter.

And we were by the swimming pool,

I said,

Dave,

Come on in now,

Go into the swimming pool.

And he said,

This is 27 years later,

He's 35 years old,

I'm 34.

And he said,

No,

Wayne,

He said,

I can't go in the water.

I said,

Well,

We're going to go in.

I said,

Come on in.

And don't even think about it.

I started talking to him,

Talking fast,

And saying,

You don't have to get yourself all upset,

You don't have to,

You have the ability to heal yourself of this.

And for 30 or 40 minutes,

While we were in that swimming pool in Fort Riley,

Kansas,

He was able to swim without hives for the very first time,

To even have water.

And he healed himself in almost an instant.

And I raised my children with that belief system.

I was reading a book when I was in my,

I was in the Navy,

And I was 20 or 21 years old,

I was reading a book by Max Maltz called Psycho-Cybernetics.

And in there it said,

You can heal yourself of any disease process that you have taken within you.

And Sage will be the first one to tell you that I'm not the one that the kids would come to when they're hurt and say,

Let's go to a doctor or let's take a pill or let's take some drugs or whatever.

What would I say,

Honey?

You'd say,

You'll be fine.

Sometimes we did need the doc.

I'm pretty sure I walked around with a broken elbow for three days before he took me to the doctor.

I've always just believed that inside of us we can heal ourselves.

So I've got to leave this interview now.

But I just do want to end it with,

Yes,

You did heal yourself,

Because I mean,

I know a lot of people haven't heard that you did.

Well,

Yeah,

I had something called a polonidal cyst that people living in the tropics,

I was on Guam,

And it had developed at the base of my spine.

And they were going to cut it out and do the surgery.

And I saw the results of some of their surgical practices and the injuries that they had brought to some of the sailors that had that.

And that night I went within and I put my focus and my attention on healing this thing and seeing it as being gone and visualizing it.

And before you know it,

The next morning I got up and instead of going over to the hospital to have the surgery,

I checked myself out.

And I was now 21 years old and I couldn't make my own decision about that.

And I left there and I healed myself of it.

And it's now 50 years later and it's never returned.

And you're over,

And with the John of God,

Is it John of God?

John of God down in Brazil,

Yeah.

You were able to heal yourself of the leukemia.

I was.

That's another.

.

.

Long story.

Well,

It's a monumental story because what they did is,

If you know about John of God,

I did a whole show with Oprah on that and then she went down there herself and had an amazing experience.

And these entities enter in and they are using his body as a way of healing.

And he's treated something like 40 million people in the last half a decade or half a century.

It's been an amazing experience and I had,

Well,

I write the whole thing and I can see clearly now.

It was a wonderful way of.

.

.

What they did is they removed the fear from my life and just filled me with a sense of Divine Love.

And that was my healing experience.

And you'll be talking about that and I can see clearly now a journey to Divine Love,

Friday April 4th at Seabury Hall.

Please,

Please don't be left out.

Don't wait.

I know Maui people wait.

Seabury Hall.

.

.

They do.

It'll sell out though.

I know it will.

It's very rarely that I do anything.

I do one event every year in January over at the West End and people come from all over the world.

I couldn't believe that one.

It was wonderful.

This is something I want to do for the people of Maui and also to give an opportunity for some students to attend this wonderful school who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to do so.

Well,

I'll let you go,

Wayne.

Thank you so much for your generous time and I'm looking forward.

I'm going to be there and I'll be looking forward to seeing you.

And you can talk to my beautiful daughter who is now an NYU graduate student who has written her own children's book which is based upon a lot of the teachings and the ideas and things we've been talking about for the last half hour.

Wonderful.

I'm really excited about that and thank you so much,

Wayne.

I really do love what you do.

You've taught me so much and so many people around the world and everyone is so grateful for the work you do.

It's really changed so many people's lives,

Including my own.

Thank you,

Cindy.

A big aloha to you.

Aloha to you.

I love you,

Sweetheart.

I love you,

Too.

You better do a good job because if you don't,

You're going to be punished.

You're going to go into the corner and sit there with your timeout.

I'm all the way in New York.

You can't do anything.

What are you talking about?

I'm your father.

I can do anything.

I love it.

Talk to you later.

Love you.

Okay,

God bless.

I love you,

Too.

Aloha.

Bye,

Honey.

Bye.

Well,

Sage,

This is a new book.

It's just come out.

It's called Wayne Dyer and Sage,

Because Dr.

Wayne,

Your dad,

Does also write something beautiful in here for you.

It's called Goodbye Bumps,

Talking to What's Bugging You.

I was at the talk at the West End,

And this came up,

Too.

Were you there?

I think you were,

Weren't you?

Yeah,

I was there.

I told my story on the first morning.

Yeah,

Yeah.

And so a lot of people are not aware that there actually are quite a few other children's books that Wayne has written,

Including Incredible You,

Unstoppable Me.

And I think there's five of them.

I am.

So that's lovely.

But this one is different because it's really based around a true story,

Your story.

So was it difficult for you to,

I mean,

You hadn't written a book before,

Had you?

No,

I've never written a book before.

But it wasn't difficult for me because it is based on a true story.

And I've been traveling with my dad telling the story,

So it wasn't too difficult.

I know the story very well,

You know.

It's your life story,

And it's really amazing.

Now,

How old were you when this actually happened to you?

I was about five years old when I first developed the,

It's called flatworts,

A rash of flatworts on my face.

And they stayed with me for about two and a half years.

So I was seven,

Seven and a half when I talked to them and got them to go away.

Two and a half years you had to do with it.

So I mean,

It must have been hard because number one,

You're the youngest of what,

Seven other children,

Seven other brothers and sisters,

Eight other.

And you know,

The youngest always kind of has to fight for their,

Right,

For their place,

Right?

That's true.

That's definitely true.

Did everyone give you and the family and other people outside give you a hard time about it or did you just feel self-conscious about it?

You know what?

At such a young age,

I don't think you're so aware of your appearance yet.

So I don't,

The appearance of the,

The warts on my face didn't bother me,

But I didn't like how my skin felt unsmooth.

And I also didn't like having to go to the doctor.

And basically what happened was that,

You know,

I got diagnosed with this rash at the doctor and they said that it should go away on its own.

So I'm not really that uncommon in kids,

But you know,

Slowly times going by,

They're not getting better,

They're getting worse,

Spreading towards my eyes and so on.

So my parents took me to another doctor.

They said,

You know,

These treatments are very harsh.

You have to burn them off,

Freeze them off or take a medication.

And I just pretty much kind of refused and told my parents,

I want to keep waiting.

And like my dad said,

He let us make decisions for ourselves.

So they allowed,

So I kept waiting,

But after,

You know,

Two and a half years,

They were like,

No,

We have to do something.

You're going to have these the rest of your life,

You know?

So they took me to another dermatologist in Hawaii,

Actually.

Right here on Maui,

I believe,

Right?

Yeah.

Dr.

Kenny Malada,

He's in Kihei.

And he said,

You know,

He said the same things the other doctors said.

He said,

We have to burn them off.

Like you've had them too long.

We're going to have to burn them off or you can take this oral medication that may or may not work.

And if your skin's going to turn red and you have to stay out of the sun.

And again,

I said to my parents,

I don't want to do that.

I were in Hawaii.

I don't want to stay out of the sun.

I don't want anyone burning my face.

So they started talking to the doctor and then they approached me with a new idea.

They said,

All right,

We're going to give another approach.

We're going to let you try and heal yourself.

You have to talk to your,

I called them my bumps because I didn't like the word warts.

So they said,

We're going to let you try and talk to your bumps and heal yourself.

So I took that very literally.

And when we went home,

I got into my bed,

Actually my air mattress,

Because like you said,

The youngest gets bullied.

I had the air mattress.

So I got in my air mattress under the covers and I talked to my bumps for probably about five minutes each night for three nights before I went to sleep.

And on the fourth night when I went to do it,

I reached up and I touched my face and it was completely smooth and they were gone.

So what did you,

What did you say to your bumps?

Yeah.

So that's the funny part.

I,

After I realized they were gone,

I was so excited.

I ran into my parents' room and I exclaimed,

They're gone.

They're gone.

And they were so excited.

And so my dad looked at me and he was like,

Well,

What did you say to them?

And I would not tell him because I thought it became like a game.

I wouldn't tell him.

And he kept asking and he would,

You know,

He would tickle me to get me to tell him.

He would offer me,

Give me $20,

Take me for ice cream.

And I wouldn't tell him.

It became like a fun game.

And then they kind of stopped asking until I was about 18.

So six years ago,

It came up again and I was like,

I'll tell you what I said.

I don't know why I've kept it a secret so long.

And basically what I said to my bumps was I said,

I love you,

But we can't be together anymore.

And you have to leave.

And I would just tell them that I love them and I would picture them leaving and falling off my face and having clear skin.

And it worked and it was really simple.

Do you think saying that you love them,

I mean,

That's an interesting approach.

Most people I think would have said,

I really hate you.

I want you to go.

Right.

And instead you said,

I love you.

Now that's why,

Why did you choose that approach?

I don't know.

I think it's,

You know,

And that's why I chose to write this in the form of a children's book because I really think that as a child,

I didn't hate them.

I was just sick of having to go to the doctor.

And so I really could come from a place of love.

And I think that's what we as adults have to learn to do too,

Is,

You know,

Love our differences and not let them give us power,

Let them have power over us,

You know.

And then the problem really does go away,

Whether it be physical or emotional.

But I didn't care.

So they didn't have a power over me.

So I,

You know,

My instinct was to tell them that I loved them,

That they had to leave.

And that could have made the difference.

And I really think that is what made the difference.

And also I think what made the difference is that,

Again,

As a child,

Having my parents tell me that that was,

You know,

A third option for getting rid of my bumps,

You know,

To me,

It seemed like it was equivalent with the other options,

Just no side effects,

You know,

Like I fully and wholeheartedly believed that I could talk to my buns and make them go away.

I wasn't doubtful.

I didn't have fear that they wouldn't.

I knew for a fact that it would work because my parents told me that it wouldn't.

At that age,

You know,

You believe what your parents say.

Yeah.

And the belief is very important,

Of course.

That believing is really powerful.

But it's so interesting that you kept it secret for so long.

And now it's out worldwide as a book.

Right.

I mean,

Here it was a secret for like,

What,

10,

A little over 10 years.

Over 10 years,

Yeah.

And now the whole world knows.

And it maybe because it was such a powerful thing that you knew the truth of it and were able to speak now that it's able to help other people.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean,

Everything happens for a reason.

So I look back at these warts now and I'm grateful for them because I now have a children's book and,

You know,

I'm on my way to a career and I have them to thank for it.

So.

Well,

You know,

You have your lovely sister,

Skye,

Of course,

Says,

The CD's out and she's a wonderful singer.

But you know,

There's other,

You have other children.

Of course,

It's very,

Very,

Very,

Very famous dad.

And so what's it like now to have your own,

Your own thing,

You know,

Because all the rest is kind of other people around you and your family.

So does it feel good to have your own project?

Yeah,

It definitely feels good to have my own project.

You know,

Before it never really felt appropriate for me to have a project.

But,

You know,

I was too young to be giving anyone advice.

I mean,

I still probably am.

And that's why I wrote a children's book.

But it definitely feels good.

I like,

You know,

I just graduated college and I like being able to say that I've done something now,

Like career wise,

You know,

Because before I've worked in restaurants or whatever,

But I've never done anything like this before.

So it is very exciting.

You know,

Sage,

You said before you were too young when I was,

I started meditating when I was about 12 or 13 after my father passed away.

And I had an enlightenment experience at the age of 15.

And I started trying,

I did teach for a while metaphysics in Los Angeles,

But I felt and I stopped because I felt I was so young.

Who's going to believe me?

And I look back now,

You know,

All these years later,

And,

You know,

Kind of doing the overview like Wayne did on his life.

I at this time realized,

Wow,

That was wrong saying I was too young for myself.

I was limiting myself.

And here you have and were able to create a miracle for yourself.

And so I really don't think you are too young.

I mean,

I think really from the honest point that you have that power within you.

And obviously,

People who haven't done it don't know what it takes to do a book.

It takes work.

Yeah.

And it takes,

And you did do work on this thing and it came out beautifully,

You know.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

You're right.

We shouldn't limit ourselves on,

I should say,

I didn't mean that I'm too young.

I just,

It happened at the right time for me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a better way of saying it,

I think.

So now on this book,

Are you going to have to do,

Obviously you are doing interviews and are you going to actually do some interviews and tours or things with it?

Are you going to take on some of the responsibilities of doing that to promote it?

Yeah.

Anybody who's approached me with an interview,

I've said yes.

So I've done,

I think three or four now.

And I will travel with my dad whenever,

You know,

It's on the weekends and I can because of school.

I will travel with him,

Tell my story with him on stage,

You know,

Sell my books,

Doing as much as I can.

I use Facebook as a portal for,

You know,

Getting the message out there.

And my dad's Facebook has really helped me out.

But yeah,

I'm willing to do all interviews.

A lot of my friends are school teachers now and like elementary school teachers and they've offered to have me come in and read the book to their class and then send a flyer home with them.

So I really want to get the message out there and do those kinds of things.

And I'm signed up to do one with a friend next week.

How wonderful.

That's great.

And I have to say,

The artwork is really cute on this.

How did you find the artist?

I didn't find the artist.

The publishing company did.

But we agreed together to do like a Hawaii themed pictures because it took place in Hawaii.

My dad lives in Hawaii.

I've,

You know,

Partially grown up there in Maui.

So,

Well,

There was this lovely,

At the very end,

There's this lovely Hawaiian sunset with the palm tree and the sun going in the ocean,

Which I went,

Yes,

I can relate to that.

One of the things I also loved in the book was you have a page,

What to do when something is bugging me.

You have,

And you have a list of five things.

And I'd like to go over this because you know what?

These are really universal truths that anyone could learn from.

That's how I feel.

I mean,

After I read the book,

Seeing it all put together,

You know,

As a final product,

I felt like I got something out of it.

And I even wrote it.

So,

Because it's a good message.

It's about taking the power of the thing that's bothering you away from what's bothering you,

Giving the power back to yourself.

You know,

That's kind of the message of the book.

Well,

Number one says,

Say hello to whatever is bothering me.

Understand that it is part of me whether I want it to be or not.

And that's very,

There's a lot of wisdom in that,

Right?

Yeah,

For adults too,

I think we do that.

We tend to pretend things aren't happening.

Or you know,

That we're not in the position that we are when the best thing to do is to face it and then go from there.

Yeah,

Allowing yourself to accept it and then you can act.

And number two is let go of bad feelings about the thing I don't like.

Now that is really powerful as well because all of a sudden you're taking the emotion and the anger out of something,

Right?

Yeah,

It's acceptance.

Accepting what it is and then coming up with a solution.

You can't come up with a solution if you're frantic and emotion.

And then three was don't let something that bugs me have power over me.

I give it power by making it important.

And that's a very important clue too because a lot of people obsess when something's bothering them.

It's like it kind of can take over for them.

Right,

And when you want to manifest something you can't focus on what's wrong.

You need to focus on what's right and you need to imagine what's right,

Which is what I did without even knowing it.

Imagining myself with clear skin,

Not being upset about the fact that I still have these warts two and a half years later.

Children don't know.

Children just do these things because that's how there's wired still.

And then we become adults and things change a little bit because society has influence on how we feel and there's so many other factors.

If we could just go back to that simplicity when something is bugging us,

I think it could be big for adults.

And four was remind myself that I feel better and happier if I don't let my problems have power over me.

And that,

Because you know what,

Don't worry be happy kind of thing.

When you worry you're actually manifesting the negative thing more than,

Yeah,

And then five was change what I can and if I can't then try to change the way I feel about it.

Which is again,

That's the attitude,

Right?

Of course,

Yeah.

If you can't change something,

Why harp on it,

You know?

Sometimes easier said than done,

But at least start going in that direction.

So after this happened and you kept it secret for so long and now you have the book,

Do you,

I have to ask you,

Have you tried using some of these principles and other things when they've come up in your life because there's got to be a lot of,

You're doing a lot,

I mean you went and you've gone to college,

You got the psychology and you're going into New York,

Which school again in New York?

NYU.

NYU,

Wow.

And going for a master's,

Right?

Right.

And so how do you apply all these principles now that you're at this point in your life with stress and everything else you have to go through in the tests and everything?

Absolutely.

I mean,

As far as getting into school and stuff,

It seemed like a very big feat to move from Florida to New York,

Get settled,

Like applying to grad school isn't just filling out an application,

It's taking a GRE,

It's getting letters of recommendation,

Flying up,

Having an interview,

There's a lot involved in it,

But I really just took the approach from the beginning,

I imagined myself in New York at NYU and then I worked from there and said,

Okay,

What's step one,

Start studying for the GRE,

You know,

So,

But I think having that big picture already in my mind and the feeling of being up there and having achieved what I wanted,

Even though it was about a year out from when I started this process,

Helped me a lot and I think it helped me a lot to make it happen and come true and things just started to line up for it to work out.

So believing again and kind of visualizing and really knowing in a way that you could make it happen,

Right?

Right,

Knowing that it was going to work out,

I mean,

I only applied to two schools,

I applied to NYU and the new school and they're both in Manhattan,

In New York City because I knew that I wanted to be up there and I didn't want to because,

You know,

My mom and some other people said maybe you should apply to a school in Florida as a backup,

You know,

An easier school to get into to make sure that you're not stuck and I was like,

No,

I'm not doing that because I don't want a backup,

I want to be there.

No,

I mean,

I understand and that's a big step just like in your father's book,

How we accomplish those same stages.

You talked about being in the Navy and what it would take just to even get into college and going from there using some of those same principles.

Now we all know that kids keep,

You know,

A dad who's famous real and maybe that was part of your job.

So how did you go as you were young,

You know,

Keeping your dad,

You know,

Real when he was around all these important people and always very important,

Everyone was like,

Oh my gosh,

Dr.

Wayne Dyer.

And so how did you,

What was your role in keeping him real and your role of coming in when you really were kind of a miracle child?

You know,

I get asked this question a lot and it's hard for me to answer because I've only had one dad,

You know,

And one upbringing.

So to me,

He was always bad and you know,

When I was little,

Probably up until I was 14,

I didn't even realize that my dad was different than other people's dads or famous or you know,

Famous in his field or whatnot because he was the only dad I had and I don't think I was comparing.

And then,

You know,

As I got older,

I think it's great and I think it's really cool,

But he's still just my dad.

Yeah.

And,

And you do get a chance sometimes to go on stage.

Was it hard getting up there?

I mean,

You're talking in front of thousands of people sometimes,

Right?

Yeah,

There's gonna,

Yeah.

I never thought,

And I don't think my dad ever thought that I had a knack for being on stage or not even had a knack that I was capable of it,

But when we,

I was with him in Lorde,

France.

Oh,

That famous time,

Yeah.

Yeah,

Two or three summers ago and he just decided he had a talk to give that day and in the morning he asked me if I would tell my bump story and I had like a mini panic attack so I was like,

I've never done this before,

I've only told this story,

You know,

To relatives and friends and,

You know,

Small groups of people,

Maybe two or three at a time.

So I just locked myself in my room,

Practiced it a couple times and then I was like,

Well,

If it goes terribly,

It goes terribly.

And got up on the stage and it actually went well and it was funny and I felt great up there and since then,

You know,

It's just,

It's not been that hard.

It's kind of fun.

Especially,

I'm up there with my dad so it takes a little bit of the pressure off.

I'm not there by myself.

Well,

You know,

I have to say I was at the event at the West End in January and you were there and I believe Sky was there too,

Right?

Yes,

She's staying the next day.

Yeah,

And there was really a lot of love,

I mean,

Truly,

I mean,

You could feel the love present that you have for each other and,

You know,

It's a beautiful thing to see.

I mean,

It truly is beautiful,

The love that is present and it's a great gift that you're able to have and give to each other and so,

You know,

I see this as such a blessing.

And I'm sure many people do,

I mean,

Such a blessing but there are challenges,

Of course,

You know,

You have this blessing but then you have to create your own life.

What you're doing now,

I mean,

And I imagine you're going to still,

With school,

Not be able to be on the road quite as much,

Right?

Yeah,

Only when he does is doing things on the weekends.

Luckily,

I mean,

There's a flight from New York to almost anywhere,

So.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah,

No,

Definitely.

And you do,

It's nice to come back to Maui and it's always nice to see you here on Maui and I do want,

We want to give a shout out to your doctor in Kihei,

Which was one of the doctors that you went to.

What was his name again?

Dr.

Kenny Mallett.

Dr.

Kenny Mallett,

Well,

Isn't that nice?

And I really appreciate you taking the time,

I know it's later in New York,

And so I appreciate you taking the time to call in Sage and next time you're on Maui stop on by the station and we'll get you in here and do another talk in person.

Oh,

Great,

Thank you so much for having me,

It's been a pleasure.

It's been a pleasure talking to you too and good luck with your book,

I know it's going to help a lot of people.

Thank you so much.

Big aloha.

You too,

Aloha.

Aloha.

Okay,

Bye-bye.

Bye.

So,

We want to thank Dr.

Dyer and Sage,

His lovely daughter,

For taking the time to call in today and sharing their stories with us and it's my treat to be with you.

A big aloha.

Reviews

Great interview! I felt the same as Sage and you Cyndi- thinking I was to “small” so why even bother. I had to talk myself out of that and eventually I did! The results were amazing. It is interesting how the ego works.

This was a wonderful treat to hear Dr. Dyer and his daughter. What a great impact he is still having in the world! Thank you so much Cindy for sharing this ! 🤗☀️🙏💕💕

Here we are in February of 2021, going on six years since Wayne Dyer’s passing, and I am still finding comfort in his stories and healing in his voice. Great interview and a pleasure to hear his voice again! Thank you for sharing this interview!🙏

Great interview/conversation, Cindy. Thank you for sharing it. Lovely to hear from Wayne (timeless!) as well as his daughter. I’ll look for her book! 💕💫🙏