Mental Martial Arts With Colleen Robinson And Dana Pemberton

Glen talks with traditional Chinese medicine practitioner Colleen Robinson and martial arts sensei Dana Pemberton about bringing the mindset lessons of the martial arts into everyday life. They explore the difference between shame and guilt, why starting as a beginner is so powerful, and how acknowledging an uncomfortable feeling, accepting it and choosing a new response can change the way you meet worry and pressure. They also share quick tips for stressful moments, such as remembering that feelings are information and not facts, and talk about the value of your own self-worth.
This content is educational and is not a substitute for one-on-one professional care.

Transcript

Elaine is a practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine. Her work with the interconnectedness of body, Mind, And spirit with energy medicine and the creation of your integral medicine has given her insight into how much capacity people have. How complex they are, And how much goodness they have. Dana holds a black belt in Japanese martial arts and is a sixth degree sensei. He's also a problem solver and pattern finder. Dana has worked with athletes and executives to bring out the best in themselves and deal with change management, Communication issues, And personal development. Together, Colleen and Dana bring complementary skill sets to classes, Group work, And presentations. Their years of working side by side allow them to focus on the things that are important to them with clients. Safety. Communication. Ease. And progress. So thank you so much for being here. Let's get started with what brought the two of you together. Yes, That is a great question. Do you mean personally or professionally? I assume professionally. Okay Yes. It was just such an exciting question because we've known each other for well, A lot longer than we've been working together. And we've been together for, You might know the answer better than I do. Going on 27 years. Going on 27 years. Okay. And then, And we both were doing completely different things. So I completely revamped what I was doing. I dove into Chinese medicine and then integral medicine. And then Dana's been coaching since you were, I don't even know how young, Not even high school, Certainly high school. And it just sort of kept evolving and it just kept making sense to keep working together. Anything that I miss, He covers and vice versa. Complementary skill sets. Exactly. Okay. So what led you to this work? Yeah, Do you want to do that one? I think both of us had a real hunger for our own personal growth, And we're always looking raise our competency and raise our capacity and raise our standards and our conduct personally and professionally and we really came together in terms of sharing information about our own personal journeys with each other. And then it just built into a moment where we thought, Geez, That might actually be useful to other people. And that was a pivotal turn in us deciding to open our clinic, Open the digital dojo and start to share experience with others. OK, OK. Well, Give us an overview of the digital dojo. Mmm. Mmm. We? Do everything that we do, I think, Started with the idea that There's so many people out there with so much trauma, So much anxiety, So much stress, And so many of the things that I was running into to help people with that. Felt like they were falling short for me. And felt like people could just use so much more help and to not feel blamed and to not feel shamed. And to have some hope again. So we kept finding different methods that just felt more and more hopeful. And. . . The it just kept building from there. Okay, Okay. Well, Before I get into specific questions about your work, Just define a couple of some terms for us. What is the black belt mind? Great question, Glenn, Thanks. The Black Belt Mind is a system that I developed from the lessons that I learned in a lifelong passionate commitment to training in the martial arts. I can say that the martial arts in many ways saved my life, Gave me purpose and put me on a really good road under circumstances where I watched my peers as I was growing up fall into not so good roads. And so I had a deep passion I have a deep passion for the martial arts. I would love everybody to get the benefits of training in the martial arts. But I developed a black belt mind specifically in this format to bring those lessons from the dojo to people who will never step foot in the dojo. Because I feel like not only did the martial arts anchor me in my training and in my practice of jiu-jitsu, But it's also become a tremendous crucible of wisdom for life in general. So the Black Belt Mind is a system that helps people. Reach their excellence. Okay. The white belt mine. What is that? Yeah. So, So that's beautiful. I love, Love the question because I can talk about this forever. Uh, And I promise I won't, I can stop, But, Um, So in a traditional martial arts, Jojo, Japanese Dojo, The, All of the belt levels represent, Uh, A point of progression. So in the black belt mind, As within the actual physical Dojo, There are seven belt levels. The, The white belt is the first one and the black belt is the final one. So. We go through all the belt levels and the white belt mind is the place where we start. We often say in the dojo that the hardest belt to get is the white belt, Not the black belt, It's actually the white belt. Why? Because it's the place where you have to choose to start. And sometimes that's the toughest thing to do because you have to step into a space where you're willing to admit that there's a whole bunch of stuff you don't know or understand and that you're there to be humble and learn. That can be a big barrier for people sometimes because of this thing called the human ego. So the white belt mind is the threshold that starts the journey and that's why it's the most important. Okay, But I should already be there. You just summed up perfectly, Glenn. The barrier and the obstacle that people get to actually commit to walking through the door. Yes. It why the practice of martial arts is so wonderful is because it's a physicalized metaphor, Right? For life. And it gives us a chance to kind of in a microcosmic way, Examine some of those dynamics that hold us back in life, Like feeling like you are already supposed to be perfect. Yes. And the reason why it's so beautiful is because there is no way that anybody walks into the dojo and automatically knows the techniques. Is perfect at them. And I've trained professional athletes, Like ex-NFL players, Firefighters, Soldiers, And they walk in as very competent, Capable people in whatever field they were in. But that world is so particular and different and technique-driven that We dismantle the expectation that a person is supposed to be perfect at anything because it's so clearly obvious that when they attempt to start training in any earnest, They're not going to know what they're doing. Oh, No, We can't know something we haven't learned. OK, So another term. I'll just use the acronym because I don't want to mess up the terminology. NAP. Yes, NAP the new agreement process is, And I like it because we can shorthand it by saying maybe you just need a nap. It's true in so many ways. Yeah, That's perfect. I think we need a nap. That came off of me saying many times throughout the workday, I need a nap right now. I need a nap. And the new agreement process is something that I developed based off of something from Dana's black belt mind work, And then we since then. It started off as a three-page, Single-spaced process, And now it's maybe six or seven lines. It's just a repeat-after-me thing. And what's fun about it is it takes this concept that so many times we don't want to face the things that we're afraid of, That we're ashamed of, That we're scared of, That we're angry about, All of those feelings, Uncomfortable feelings, Because once we acknowledge them, We feel like we slide into agreement with them. Well, This person looked at me funny and that means I'm an idiot. As opposed to When we acknowledge something, We can accept it. When we accept it, We can get information about it. And once we do that, We can change our agreement about it. Okay, Okay. Now, If it's a repeating statements are those personalized statements are these general for your whole client population, Are they more like affirmations. It is an awesome question. I love affirmations. For a lot of people, Myself included, Affirmations don't work because whenever I say an affirmation like, I'm the most fabulous person in the world, My brain goes, Except remember when you did this? That little voice. So one of the things that's fun about NEP, We work in groups and we'll find things that apply for, You know, We've done groups on money, We've done groups on body image, We've done groups on you name it, We've done a group on it. And we can individualize them as well, And you can start at whatever gentle slope you need. So when people come in with a really big really scary feeling issue. We don't start with picking a statement like, You know, This fill-in-the-blank terrible thing that happened that I'll never get over, We can start with a really gentle statement like, This fear I have about facing this. And we get a zero to 10 number, Because sometimes that, You know, Zero is nothing and 10 is, Ah, Don't talk to me about it. Sometimes just this fear that I have of even working on this is 11 out of 10. Okay, So the statements that you come up with or the client comes up with a personal personalized. You can do either. If it's more comfortable, You can start with, You know, We can provide people with, And we often provide people with some general statements around any topic. Even a general statement is going to be helpful. And then when we're working with individuals and groups, We will absolutely choose personalized statements. And we show people how to use personalized statements just to make it faster, For sure. Okay, Okay, Excellent. Now, What are some of the top issues, Maybe the top three, Five issues that your clients present with, The most common ones? Great question. Yeah. If I'm being very general, I would say trauma, Anxiety, Stress, To be very, Very general. If we're being more specific. All the permutations that stem from those three things. Yeah. Fundamentally Uh. . . Where I've seen what Colleen's created with NAP based upon some of the Black Belt Mind principles. That, Gosh, We didn't even necessarily intend, But we have found has been sort of the anchor issue for people is shame. Interesting, Interesting. So is your approach to shame about being defective as a human being, Shame from having something bad happen to them. Shame from not being over it. Yes You named it, Glenn. That's it. Yeah. I mean, You just bullseye it. Yes. Maybe in the simplest sense, We have developed lots of concepts over the years, But for me, Being an ex-athlete and a martial artist, I'm always looking for performance, I'm always looking for rubber-meets-the-road application. And one of those things that we've gleaned from that approach to shame is that there's a profound difference between shame and guilt. And just Opening up the possibility in someone's mind that those two things are different energies because we very colloquially Use them interchangeably, Right? Yes There's a reason why the word shame rhymes with blame And blame is the antithesis of actual responsibility. So when we work with shame and we approach it from the standpoint of identifying it as its own specific energy, That is very different from guilt. We get. People. Opening up to a new level of possibility for themselves that, In many ways, From over the 20 or so years we've been doing this work. People just didn't know existed. They didn't know it was possible to not think of themselves as broken, Inherently flawed, Worthy of blame and bad. Okay, Okay. So. . . You have a new client, Pretty low in self-esteem, Self-worth. Mild depression. Some anxiety, Maybe panic attacks. What would be your first step with him or her? That's, Again, These are beautiful questions. So much of that, Like your own work is individualized. And for me, The first step is just the sitting and actually listening because so many times people are just never been listened to in their entire life. And when you can listen to someone. It becomes quite, First of all, We start to recognize that we are worth listening to. And when we realize that we're worth listening to, We realize that we're worth. We have worth. And that in itself. I'm sure in your work can change. Anything and everything. And from there, It also becomes quite easy. People will say all the time, Well, It's about this, It's about this, It's about this. And it's you can hear the resonant when they actually hit. The issue that's anchoring everything. We we say all the time that everybody has skeletons in the closet and we we can always go you know if you're ever going into a session You've always got your skeletons that you can pull out if there's nothing new that week. And at one point I started wondering why we all allow so many skeletons in the closet, Even the ones of us who do this work. And then I realized it's because they are such a good distraction from the bodies in the backyard that we're terrified of. So what we do is we get to the bodies in the backyard. Well, The skeletons in the closet might be company at some point, Too. You're not alone. There you go. Yeah, Exactly. A devil you know. It's the ones that you are familiar with, You're comfortable with. Yes, Yes. Right? You have a great converse, Ability to converse and have relationship with those. They're your pals after a while. Absolutely. Yes. Well, Colleen, Thank you for mentioning the listening. And in our world, We call that active listening. Attending to the person without judgment, Without bias, And without developing your own responses as they're speaking. I would love. For more people to learn how to do it because in today's world, No one is listening to anyone. Everyone seems to be talking and forcing their opinions. Mindset's on to everyone else and here we are. Perfectly well sidelined. Listening is a critical human skill. Very much, Yeah. Yes, Yes. Okay, So There's just so many different questions to ask. I know I get so excited. Right. We all kind of fritz out the same way. Oh, Yeah. So we're with you. So let's just all take a breath together. Find the next step, Because there's so many areas that we're so excited to tackle with you and converse, Like just being able to be in an open space like this and ask these questions and learn from each other and have this discussion. You know, It's sorely lacking in the world. So thank you for creating a space where that can happen. Well, Thank you. Thank you for saying that. And you're welcome. So how would you apply the black belt mind, The white belt mind, The new agreement process to today's uncertainty? Yeah. Because people's livelihoods are at risk. My goodness. Yes. Yeah. Real at risk. For real. For real. Yes. I think that's a you question because so many times when I fritz out, When the anxiety just wants to take over and say everything's going to be terrible forever, The anchor points from the black belt mind have saved my bacon because there's always a place to come back to. And when you find that place of solidity, I can just feel myself be able to breathe again. So no pressure, But as I say all the time in classes, Say something smart. I try to pick up the gauntlet every time. That's such a beautiful question, Glenn. Fundamentally, And I'll try to keep it as straightforward and applicably simple as possible. Okay. In the black belt mind, Each belt level has, From white to black, Has a driving principle, Almost an axiom that we follow, A list that we live by. Because those serve as points of reference for decision making when we're under pressure. And the white belt mind, The the driving axiom and the statement that goes with it is innocence. Innocence, And we just define for our purposes in the Black Belt Mind that at the White Belt Mind level, Innocence is described as a harmless lack of knowledge. It's kind of our fancy way of saying it's okay not to know stuff. Because if you're okay with not knowing stuff, Then you're also in the best position to learn new things. The underpinning of that. That is transformative for people that I've watched for decades in their lives in the dojo and outside of their lives in their families and in their work. Is that when you recognize that it's okay to not know things, When you are innocent and pure enough to sit in a place where you can say, I don't know that. You move from a win or lose mentality into a win or learn mentality. When we are winning or losing, Everything feels precarious. Everything feels on the edge of anxiety and overwhelm. When we're winning or learning, And we get into a momentum of that, We kind of recognize that Learning is winning. So if we're winning and learning, We're just winning and winning. We're just winning and winning. And if under pressure, You can. . . Return to that place. You'll recognize that no matter the obstacle that arrives, No matter the problem that shows up, There's an opportunity. And there's a solution. Yes, Of course. I'm sorry. I want to ask you this question before I lose it. Yeah. Yeah. So we defined innocence as The not. A harmless lack of knowledge. Harmless lack of knowledge. I really like that. And do you differentiate that from Ignorance. I'm high-fiving you over the airwaves. Yes. That's awesome because that means you're embodying what I'm saying in a way that makes sense to you. Yes, Because we also define ignorance as well. And it's kind of neat to see what those comparative definitions are. And they're simple, So we can remember them easily, Under stress, And then apply them easily. So if innocence is a harmless lack of knowledge, Ignorance, For our purposes, We define as a harmful lack of knowledge. And a harmful like, Say again? It's more choiceful. Yes. Perfect. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, No, No. You just summed it up. Exactly. That's the whole point of knowing that we have those two reference points as contrast. Because innocence inspires learning. Ignorance stops learning. Innocence is expansive. Ignorance is constricting. And so we know the difference between those two energies, Those two feelings. We could call them carrots and broccoli. We can call them chocolate cheese. It doesn't matter. I'm not hung up on the language, But I offer that language with clarity in a codified way so that people have something clear to either accept or reject. If they have a better term for it or they have a way in that's more aligned with who they are, Fabulous. Being clear gives them an opportunity to provide and experience their own clarity. If they have something that feels more suitable to them. But we start there because then they've got something to reject if they need to. So those two dynamics are really powerful innocence and ignorance knowing when you're in which state and which Energy is driving your action. Is powerful to handling your own emotional momentum. Okay, And what's the anchor point or axiom of Black Belt? Black belt is ideals. Okay. Ideals we define as high standards of excellence. So all of the belts. From white belt to black belt, Add another. A reference point that when we get to black belt, It culminates in, Okay, Now I want to express experience and live from all of these ideals. I'm sorry, All of these, Uh, Different, Uh, Principles at the highest level I possibly can. I want to be excellent in my innocence. Yellow belt is about developing deep interest in things. We're primarily learning. I want to be excellent in my level of interest. I want to be self-determined and intentional about how I approach life from that perspective. And then it moves all the way up in a way that each one of the belts gets strengthened and supported by the concept right below it. Okay. Okay. So in working with someone who is very anxious about the uncertainty, The realistic risks and a role today. How would you apply? The black belt line to that person if they've gone through the other levels successfully? What would that look like for them? You're just throwing me great. I'm just like, OK, He's got to keep it contained. So there's a foundational. . . Set of principles that goes with each one of those levels. That's what Colleen developed the NAP practice from. And I developed those foundational principles, Which I'll share with you in a second. They're quite brief and succinct. I will try to be as well. Uh. . . For leaders. And when I was working with executives and coaches at a high level, They had to be able to understand that they could make responsive intentional, Aware choices under extraordinary amounts of stress. And manage their anxiety as leaders. Leadership is a very particular and precarious, Potentially kind of positioned. Which offers lots of fantastic opportunity and value, But if you don't know what you're doing as a leader, It's scary. So those three principles are very simple. Acknowledgement, Acceptance, And agreement. Three very simple ideas that are the underpinning to every belt level in the black belt line from white to black. Acknowledgement is, I'm aware that something in my environment might be having an effect on me. That's the first one. Acceptance is, I'm consciously aware that something in my environment is having a direct effect on me. Agreement is that process that embodies the choice that we make about that thing that could be having an impact, Or that is having an impact, And that When we get to the stage of agreement, We're either going to be reactive to that impact, Or we're going to be responsive to it. Okay, So when I work with people initially out of the gate I kind of tend to do things in threes. First of all, I asked them, Where they're ashamed. If they are. Okay. Where they're angry. If they are and where they're afraid. And through each one of those lenses, We then apply the AAA process, Which is, Okay, Can you acknowledge that you feel ashamed? Can you accept that you feel ashamed? Can you make any other choices about how you're handling feeling ashamed than you've ever made? That creates the two most important things that I think fundamentally we always try to provide in any Circumstance one-on-one with a group with a team online in person safety to acknowledge and accept your own information, Your own emotional content, And permission to keep doing so. Giving yourself permission to keep doing so. As a person experiences that for the first time, We watch them. Open up! In ways we can't even predict anymore, Like just miraculously in front of our eyes that are very humbling. Because what that does is it can reconnect them, And I'll say that very deliberately, To a possibility. That they have a capacity for courage that they never thought was possible. Okay And when you watch a person land there, All of a sudden it's like, Oh. Well, Wait a second. Okay, That's scary. Yeah, That is pretty scary But I can handle that. Oh, I love my clients aha moments. When they report them in session, And sometimes they actually happen in session. It's the best. It's the absolute best. Nothing beats it. It's like it's happening for the first time every time it happens. You can't believe it feels so incredible to watch a person witness them. And it's empowering reconnection. Oh, Yes, It's not defeating or punitive at all. And that's the beauty of it. And that is so affirming for them that it's just I love it. That validates me doing this. I mean, Not validates, But reinforces why I get it. I get it. OK, So I does. NAP. Lead someone to the standards of excellence. Can you just give us an example? So great. Yeah, That's fabulous. One of the sentences that we refer to in NAP that brings me such comfort and I watch people's shoulders go down when they repeat it, Which is that whatever is happening, Whatever you did that you're ashamed of, That you're upset about, That's concerning to you. You weren't crazy to do it, You were doing it for a reason. You were doing it to make sense of things. You were doing it to survive, To stay safe, To stay sane. You were doing it to fit in. You were doing these things that we are driven to do. In order to stay alive in the world, Or at least that's what it feels like in the moment. And the challenge is that we do those things, And then we can reduce ourselves to those moments of Well, I did this thing to survive, So that's all I am. And so the beautiful thing about standards is quite oftentimes standards are misused by people to say, Well, You haven't met this standard, Therefore you're not good enough. What it really does is it gives us the place to reach to and to say, Right, I did that to survive. Now I'm going back and reaching for the standard that feels so good because I'm here to reach for it again. I'm here to be able to demonstrate that even when it's hard, I can fall off that standard. What I need to do to survive and climb right back up again. Okay. OK, And those standards are self-defined. Yeah. Beautiful. They're not shoulds. Yes. You should have a house by now. You should be making six figures. You should have a family. So on the money, Just bullseye. And we define those as. . . In a simple way, Hopefully that's clear. There's a big difference between enforced standards and inspired standards. Big difference. I love the language. I love the language. I knew it would make sense to you. Okay. Yeah. So Many times, We are both nerds about about words and language and we have actually stopped. Not that we ever fight, But if we were to ever fight. We have stopped fights in the middle of, Because one of us will say to the other, I don't think that word means the way you're, What you think it means. And they'll go, No, Just a second. I have to look it up and we'll look up the etymology of it. And then half the time we go, Okay, What were we fighting? I don't know. Okay, Anyway. It's a great pattern interrupter. It really is. End. All the time because genuinely one of the things that I so appreciate about Dana is he can take these big concepts and simplify them down to these beautiful tenets that we can follow really easily. We choose our own rules and we can follow them really easily. And then I use the really simple things. I love stories. I love words. And so part of my thing is feelings are amazing. You always want to listen to them. They always have information for you. They are not facts. So. When we take those words like you know, Oh, I'm just so stupid that I did this again. When you hear a word like that happening again and again, Or when it has that velocity to it, You can see the person get impacted by it. It allows us a chance to go, Great, Let's not take that word the way you think it means. How is that word used at you? What does that mean to you? And what does it really mean in this circumstance? We were working with somebody just the other day and they kept saying you know oh and I'm so stupid for this I'm so stupid for that I'm so stupid. We asked a couple of questions, And it turns out they were so stupid. For following. What was true to them rather than doing what they were told. And so by the end of that, I said, I sincerely hoped to be that stupid my entire life then. That took such courage, That took such strength of character, That took such a knowing of who you are and what matters to you. And if you still want to call it stupid, You can, But let's at least agree what that word really means in that context, Which is, Why are you listening to me? You're supposed to listen to me instead of your OK. OK. Thank you for that. Thank you. Now, Do you have. . . Can you give us a couple of quick tips for. Anxiety, Fearfulness. Yeah. You've got some good ones. I know mine. I do fall back to feelings are great information. They are not facts. And so before I did this work, I lived in a state of anxiety all the time. And now when I feel it, My first thought is, Oh, I did not miss this. This is not fun. And so for me, It goes back to, Okay, If this is not a fact, What's it trying to tell me? And is that true? So. . . I feel the anxiety of, They're doing construction outside of our house, So I left. Triple the time to get to work, Still managed to be peeling into the parking lot just in barely enough time to get up there. And I felt the anxiety kick in and it said, You know, Oh my goodness, They're going to think that you're a terrible person and you're not going to be set up. And what it felt like was, Oh, You screwed up and you failed and you're failing them. And it was very simple. Oh, Okay. That's a good feeling to have. Is that the fact? No. Well, What's the fact? Well, The fact is I don't want to let them down. Oh, Okay. Well, That's good. And why don't I want to let them down? Because they matter. Oh. That's good. Well, Can I let them know that they matter? While I'm setting up in front of them, Yeah? Acknowledgement, Acceptance, Agreement, Problem solving. Decision making all wrapped in one. Very nice, Very nice. Do you have a tip, Dana? Oh, Gosh, I'm. Full of them, Hopefully, And I hope that they're useful. Again, I always try to put things in concise, Bite-sized chunks because under pressure, Things need to be simple. If things are too complex, When we're stressed, We forget them. We say in the dojo all the time that under real-world pressure, A physical attack, You resort to your most recent level of training. Refined movements under stress and refined thinking under stress are very difficult. Part of the way that I would describe and I use and suggest to people what Colleen just talked about is through a really simple three-word phrase, Doubt your doubt. So I'm like, When you're under pressure, When you're under stress, When things are feeling anxious, You're feeling overwhelmed and you're feeling lethargic. That you're doubting your capacity, You're doubting your confidence, You're doubting your proficiency. You're already in the energy of doubt. That emotion is already present. That feeling is already there. Don't deny it. Acknowledge it. Accept it. Make a new agreement with it. How do we do that? By doubting the doubt. So that just means, Wow, Gosh, I'm in this position where I'm feeling really, Really shrinking and scared and not sure that I'm going to be able to meet the standard or the task that I'm being asked to accomplish. But is that true? I don't know, Maybe that's. Okay, So is there no way through this? I feel that way, But is that really true? Doubt your doubt. Why that's such a useful thing is because it gives you something to do in the face of anxiety. That conscious, Aware decision to take an action falls in line with the other part of that phrasing, Which is action is the elixir to anxiety. So even when you cannot physically take an action, Tell people all the time, You're at that presentation, You're sitting at one end of the table, As you're getting prepared, You're seeing people walk in, You're getting scared and anxious, Get up and walk to the other side of the room. That action is enough to interrupt the momentum of that building pattern of anxiety and give you a fresh, Clean state, An innocent start to realize that it's okay for you to take a breath, Not know something and still be valuable. If people can do those two things in the moment, Doubt their doubt. Remember that action is an elixir to anxiety. Right. Okay. Okay. I love those tips. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, It does. It really does. So I would like each of you to give your own nugget. What is the one takeaway you want the audience to have today? Mmm. Um. . . I think aligned with my. Feelings have information but they're not facts. If there's one thing that I have learned again and again and again. It's that. People have been taught, People have heard and internalized this idea, You should be ashamed. And That's never true. So if there's one thing I could share with anyone and everyone, Any place you have that feeling of, Oh, I should be ashamed. Okay. Just gotta chill. A little skip in my heart. Mmm. Thanks, Glenn. My walkway that I, If I could only send one message to people, That I would want to be my legacy would be your self-worth is the most valuable commodity you will ever have. Pay attention to it and take care of it. Listen to how you feel. It's the most important thing a human being can do. Pay attention to how you feel. And listen to how you feel. Because that will keep you in awareness of the value of your self-worth and give you courage to stand up and face anxiety and stress in ways that work. The more you lean into that self-worth and the connection that comes from experiencing your own courage, You will transform yourself in ways that you didn't think were possible. I've watched it for decades in my years as an educator, In my years in the dojo, People just accomplishing things and experiencing their own capacity in ways that they never thought they could. So take care of your self-worth, Pay attention to how you feel. And know that those are the most important things you can do. Okay. Okay. Thank you both so much. This has been an absolute pleasure for me and I love the information.