Uncertainty In OCD: An Interview

How do you embrace not knowing when your mind is giving you random, scary thoughts? Kristina talks with Darcy and Cassie about why uncertainty sits at the heart of OCD, and why the question is often less about whether a thought is true and more about the fact that we do not know. They share how choosing to sit with uncertainty, and picturing how you will feel looking back in a week, a month or a year, can help you decide by what matters to you rather than by urgency.
This conversation is for anyone living with OCD or supporting someone who does. This content is educational and is not a substitute for one to one professional care.

Transcript

Um, And I would love to also talk to you today a little bit about uncertainty, Because as we all know with OCD, As with life in general, Uncertainty is a big point of conversation, But also in the context of OCD specifically, You know, People always ask things like, But how, How can you sit there and embrace not knowing when your brain is giving you all sorts of random intrusive thoughts, Um, That are really scary. So, Um, Welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. Yeah, Thank you. We're excited to be here. Absolutely. So I'm going to first ask, Actually, To have us dive into the topic of uncertainties because I think that's probably kind of the burning question usually people have. And whoever wants to answer first, But I'd love to hear from both of you. I think one thing that's safe to say, You know, I've definitely come out of the OCD closet last year in terms of I have OCD and I've been a bit more open about, You know, Kind of the process that it takes. It's a personal decision. And I think it's safe to say that if we're all here, We are all dealing with OCD, Facing OCD, Talking about OCD, Know what it's about. Um, So my question to both of you is from your experience, Kind of how, How would you explain to somebody, Or how would you, What kind of advice or tip would you give to somebody who has that question of how do I, How do I accept uncertainty when I feel so uncertain, So anxious, So scared, Um, That, You know, What if, You know, Some common examples, Like what if I am a pedophile or what if I don't know my sexual orientation, Or what if I am some sort of a predator, Water if I am contaminated in some way. End up dying or I'm in the wrong relationship or, You know, Whatever the myriad of things that OCD brain produces. So whoever wants to go first. Go ahead, Cassie. I think so first I just want to acknowledge that that's definitely something I'm still working on. So I don't know if I'll have even the best answer because it can, It's definitely very difficult. I think what's helped me is just like realizing that the kind of uncertainty is the core of basically every OCD I thought I have. I think it's easy. It's easy. I know that's kind of the debate between is the content important, Is it not. I think what's really helped me is, I think, Well, Acknowledging the content is important to like notice that you realize that you're not alone. But I do think that, You know, Tying it all back to uncertainty is so important. Realizing that it's not about like, Whether I whether this is true, Whether this is true, It's about the fact that I don't know. And that's such a big thing for me. Um, Yeah, And I mean, It's part of what I'm hearing. And I'm wondering if this is something you find true as well as it's especially like for folks in the context of OCD land. When people are like, But how do I how do I accept uncertainty? It's kind of like a big question, Right? But I think part of, And kind of what both of you are saying too, It sounds like, Well, First of all, Like step back and kind of recognize, Well, You're dealing with uncertainty in so many other ways in your life and you're kind of just already doing it. So clearly you're already somehow have this skillset, But when OCD comes and really pulls your attention to hyper-focus on whatever that theme or topic is of that moment, Um kind of like using your tools to recognize that first of all that's that is OCD right now that's on and then being able to kind of proactively make that decision to say okay I'm going to decide to sit with not knowing this right now and ride this wave out Um, And in that way, Opening myself up to being really vulnerable and taking that risk of Like, Okay, We'll see what happens on the other side. Um. . . I think, Yeah, That's just kind of what seems to kind of stand out from what you guys are saying. Yeah, I like that you mentioned that it's a choice because I think a lot of times, I know my experience with OCD is a lot of feeling out of control and trying to control it and to flip the narrative and to be like, Actually, It is my choice to sit with the uncertainty and to face this fear can give you a lot of power. And I think that it's easy to forget that when you have all these intrusive thoughts that feel out of control. 100%, Yeah. Anything else you want to add in there, Cassie? I wasn't sure. I didn't want to skip over you. Yeah, I think something that's important too is just kind of, This might be a really scary thought, But almost basically everything in the world is uncertain. And RISD likes to tell us that like, If we do something, We'll make it or not. So, But I think it comes from this fear of like, You know, Is like a scary fact, But not everything is certain. And so kind of once we acknowledge that, We can realize that, You know, Compulsions aren't gonna, Even with compulsions, Everything's uncertain. I think coming to that realization is helpful, But also very scary. Okay, Awesome. Do you guys have anything else in terms of like what would be a tip like one thing that you could give to the audience. Just like one takeaway for folks listening to practice to kind of embrace or accept or deal with uncertainty. I'd say, Um, I mean, This is kind of what I already said, But just, Um, Thinking coming to that. That place where you can accept that nothing is certain. I think that's really hard to sit with, But like the more you sit with that, The more you'll be able to get OCD. And also just. You know tying everything back to uncertainty like rather than thinking like. Spending a lot of time thinking like, Am I a murderer? Am I not? Think like, Wow, I'm really afraid of the fact that I don't, I can never know for sure what I'm going to do in the future or something like that. I like that, Cassie. Thank you. That's a nice picture. I agree. I like that a lot too. Um, Something I was talking to my mom about this week that wasn't specifically OCD related, But, Um, One of my pets was sick and I didn't know whether it made sense to bring her to the vet or just kind of watch and wait. And it was like a hard choice and that's not OCD related. That's just life related. And when I was talking to her, She was reminding me that I should imagine myself. Um, In a week or in a month or in a year and how I will feel looking back on it. And I wouldn't have wanted to imagine myself like rushing my pet to the vets, Spending a lot of money, Spending a lot of time and energy, Um, Unnecessarily, Or. With a sick animal. I would rather spend if the animal was going to pass, Like her last minutes with her and she's fine and it's all good. And I brought her the vet to the vet the next day. Um, And that waiting period of not knowing whether she was going to go downhill or not was really, Really hard, But I think something that helped me was imagining, Um, How I'll feel long-term instead of short-term. So instead of like, Well, Immediately I want this anxiety and sadness to go away. So maybe driving to the vet in the middle of the night is how to get rid of that. I sat with it and thought, Okay. And if she was to pass, How would I feel in a week from now? I would wish that I was with her. So that's what I decided to do. Um, And I don't think that always works for every situation, But I definitely like to imagine myself long-term when short-term decisions are hard to make. Yeah, That's really us also beautifully said Darcy it's it's kind of the same concept of like using your what's out there in the world that we hear often about is using your values and what's important to you to drive your decision versus using the sense of immediacy and urgency that OCD can generate. Beautifully said. Yeah. My, My therapist is a dbt therapist for context. And so we talk a lot about rational mind, Emotion, Mind, And wise mind. And she always says, If things feel like you need to do it immediately, It's emotion mind. If it's something that feels urgent, It's emotion mind. And that doesn't always mean it's bad. There are reasons why we have emotion mind and there are situations where that's helpful, But it is something to recognize, Like thinking I need to do something immediately, Unless I'm actually in danger or it is immediate situation can actually cause more harm in the long run. Yeah, Beautifully said again, And that almost touches on this whole other topic we could go off on. Because we can get all into about, You know, How do you know, Though, If it feels urgent, Though, How can I know for sure that it's not right. She loves to play these little tricks. Thank you for that for both of you.