16. My Guru Didn't Care About My Coffee Addiction

Welcome to our Vedic Psychology Book Club.

We are getting to the end now.

Only two chapters left.

So before I go into this next chapter,

Do you guys have any thoughts,

Questions,

Reflections about the last chapter we read last week?

So last week was Babaji the saint made me faint.

The bloody gory.

Ciao.

On that.

Did you guys have anything on that that you wanted to share?

Go ahead,

Natalie.

What I was reflecting about is the trust,

When you mentioned trust in the Guru's way of guiding.

And we could see how you were trying to avoid at all costs.

And I can relate to that.

I'm thinking,

Oh yeah,

If I had listened.

And finally,

I had never made the connection with trust.

So I'm still thinking about it.

And yeah,

I'm wondering,

Am I not able to trust Babaji and following him because of the Samskara or because of the Samskara about trust specifically.

Or is it really only the power of the samskara that we try to escape at all costs?

And I'm thinking,

Yeah,

But if I.

.

.

Had no issue with trust.

Maybe I would go because I would know that I only do this for my own good.

So then maybe it's an invitation for me to think about trust issues.

Yeah,

Very good deliberation and reflection.

I want to ask you one thing.

So you said,

You were thinking,

Is it a samskara?

Or a samskara of trust,

Right?

What's the difference for you?

Is it just a samskara or the samskara of trust?

The difference is that if it would be because of the samskara,

Maybe it's just that the samskara is so powerful.

That even though you trust Babaji or your guide,

You want to make it,

But you cannot,

Because it's still too strong,

The voltage is too high,

So you just want to escape,

Or you fight back,

Or you find any way not to go into it,

Because you just cannot make it.

And that samskara,

Okay,

So you said you trust Babaji,

So let's go with that first.

And we don't,

If you don't want to,

You know,

Analyze you,

But just any person,

If you're saying,

Oh,

I trust Babaji,

What is that?

If it's not a samskara,

What is it?

And if it is a samskara,

What is it?

Versus this other thing you said like,

Oh,

The voltage is too high,

I can't make it,

I don't trust.

I'm just trying to get more clarity around those things to see what the difference is.

For me,

Trust is associated.

.

.

I'm saying live,

Because I've never.

.

.

Kind of like talking it out,

Brainstorming or whatever.

Trust.

For me is more something like Uhhh.

.

.

Safe?

Are something more.

.

.

In my head.

Uh.

.

.

And it's as if there's an opposition between this and that.

What is emotionally or the power of the emotion,

The bodily reaction of the samskara.

That's why I could say that even though I trust someone and I have faith in someone,

I cannot make it or I cannot go for it or I cannot follow.

Okay,

So that makes sense.

So would you say trust is like a thought.

Like,

You know,

Like,

You know,

What's It's best to trust my guru type of thing.

That's a thought.

And you know,

Of course,

After all the experiences with Babaji you've had,

You're like,

Of course I trust him.

But then something else inside,

Which is not in your head,

Is like you said,

Voltage,

High voltage,

And it's like stronger than the trust sometimes.

It's as if I have no bodily experience of trust.

Interesting.

So it's in your head,

Just like there's other things in our head that we know that we should and shouldn't do.

Right?

Like I know this is good.

I know I should like,

You know,

Like one example is if you go to a dermatologist,

You have light skin,

They'll say like,

Stay out of the sun.

You know,

You have to wear sunblock.

You shouldn't go in the sun with baby oil on and burn yourself,

Because you can get skin cancer.

So I know it's good,

You know?

It's like a fact.

So of course I know I should trust Babaji,

And here's the things I shouldn't do.

I mean,

I shouldn't go in the sun,

But I should wear sunblock.

Or something like that.

I'm probably not doing a good analogy,

But the idea is that you said it's in your head,

So it's something you know,

But there's something in your heart that's stronger.

That's what you're saying,

There's some scar that's.

.

.

Overpowering what you know.

Or what you wish you could do sometimes and you can't.

So I'll give you my analysis of it in a minute,

But does anybody else want to chime in on an experience you're having like that?

Reflecting on what she has just said.

I would perhaps think that the reason that I chose don't want to follow Babaji's instruction is that there's some sort of attachment that I have to my own ideas.

Touch on your own ideas.

Yes,

And that's also a samskara,

Right?

Yeah.

So you're saying it's a samskara,

But your samskara is like,

You want to but you can't,

And yours is a little different version of a different type of samskara.

Yours is like,

But I'm attached to my own ideas.

So because of that,

I don't trust.

Interesting.

Yeah,

Because just like you were giving the example of burning in the sun,

I know it's wrong,

But I want it so much that I sacrifice whatever could happen,

I just go in front of the sun and have a nice time.

It's not in a sense that what Ladila said is wrong,

Just another angle.

Yeah,

Very interesting.

Some scars definitely get in the way of us doing what we even know is right,

You know,

We know it's right.

Term consequence of doing something,

So we're like.

.

.

The sun feels so good.

I mean,

It's Lithuania.

How often is the sun out?

I come from a place with a similar climate,

So I don't care.

The sun is out,

I'm like,

You know,

Right?

And then you know it's probably bad for your skin,

But I mean if I only do it a few times a year,

What's the big deal,

You know,

Type of thing.

But like a dermatologist,

If they saw you doing it with the fair skin and your father had skin cancer,

They'll be like,

Oh my God,

You know.

But so there's like the logical part of us,

You know,

And the logical part is very smart.

You know,

We can be like,

We can say all the reasons why we should follow our guru.

And all the reasons why we shouldn't bake ourselves in the sun,

But then when it comes to that moment,

We do what we're attached to or what our samskara compels us to do.

Anybody want to make any other comments about this on your experiences or reflections?

So it started off with Ludley talking about trust,

Right?

And how it's not that she doesn't trust.

But something stronger than the trust comes sometimes.

As you're kind of trying to.

Piece it together,

Because it's a new concept to think about at this level,

I think,

Of samskara versus trust.

So I think I have similar experience by treating my Try to balance my emotion by eating chocolate,

For example.

I know that is not so good for me.

I know that it will be better not,

Because my age,

Blah,

Blah,

This and that,

So many motivation,

But when the person point is coming.

That moment comes,

It's like.

.

.

I'm there,

You know?

So,

This is how we are conditioned by some scholars.

It's just like a program,

Which is coming up,

And then by doing it again,

It will come for sure again.

So,

I think it's same also with the trust and All the emotions basically are connected with this storehouse of previous experiences,

That we are just like automatic.

.

.

It's an automatic program that doesn't have like a.

.

.

It doesn't have to pass through like,

You know,

Like the toll booth where you have to stop the car and pay the toll to go through.

We don't have that with the samskara,

Which is like.

.

.

Actually,

When it's the toll booth,

We accelerate through the gate and break it,

You know.

Okay,

Anything else about trust?

It's a good one.

It's a good analysis to go deep on that.

Yes,

Vila.

I would be very curious hearing from you what are the factors that allow me to have trust and What can I do when I realize that I could have.

.

.

More trust.

It would be good to have more trust in that person.

That's just based on the lesson learned that you wrote at the end of the chapter.

I trust that my guru is always looking out for my best interest and his instructions and actions are always out of compassion to uplift me.

Yeah it's for me difficult to remember that.

I'd be curious what could be.

.

.

You know,

Causes for it,

And what could be solutions to improve on that?

Good question.

So I'll kind of summarize now.

I just wanted to hear whoever had to weigh in,

And then I'm going to explain from the Vedic psychology,

You know,

Underside of it,

The mechanics of it.

So does anybody have anything else you want to say about this before,

Either questions,

Reflections?

Go ahead,

Nyanchi.

So I also have seen that I have also had the same.

Experience as Shailesh ji and Kamala said that sometimes I know like let's say let even if I take example of chocolate I know that Babaji has said,

Let's say that Babaji said that,

No,

Don't eat so much chocolate.

And even to the point I wrap it up,

I bring from the fridge and then I eat it.

Bring it to my vision,

But I know that it's not good.

Till the point I keep it in the mouth,

Even after knowing it,

After eating it,

I will still take the second bite.

I am just trying to say this point that even intellectually I am convinced that what Babaji has said is correct.

What I am doing is not correct.

Butter.

Even this thought comes sometimes that Babaji said,

Okay,

Even if you do it,

Do it with awareness.

So I tell myself,

Okay,

I'll do it.

One day will come when I will not do it at all,

But today let's do it with awareness.

So I'm just saying that the Samskara is so much impelling,

So that it's so hard to not do that.

That's true.

It's a good example.

I think a lot of people can relate to some sort of food thing.

Chocolate or whatever your favorite food or drink is.

Some people,

Not in this community,

But a lot of people still have some maybe addiction to alcohol,

Smoking,

Something.

There's something that it's just like,

I know I shouldn't do that,

But cheers or whatever.

Go ahead,

Mohini.

I didn't really understand the point of trust.

Maybe you can,

What didn't you understand?

Nothing.

I didn't get the point.

Okay.

So I was sharing that I was reflecting about this question of trust.

Why?

Even if intellectually in my head I know I have trust in Babaji,

I know that everything he's saying telling me advising me is for my own good.

Why I have in my body or in my emotions something which stop me from following this and that is stronger.

Even though in my head I know that it's like this,

But finally in the fact the way I behave I behave there's something in me like no finally,

Can I really trust?

And I'm wondering why am I not doing it actually?

Very good question.

You got it Mohini?

Yeah,

Okay.

Anything else?

Does anybody online want to share anything?

I don't see any hands up,

No.

Okay,

So basically for trust I would say that.

.

.

We could probably look it up online and get the definition and say,

Okay,

Here's what it is.

So I don't have that right in front of me,

But I'm sure that there's some definition and we'd be like,

Oh yeah,

I can relate to that definition of what it is.

Something around like believing,

Having faith in the other person without any experience.

You don't have the experience,

But you trust that person's,

You have faith in that person's words or advice or whatever so much that even without any experience you kind of go along with what they're saying,

Right?

So the key thing is without any experience.

Because the way strong some scars are made is by what?

Experience.

And not only experience,

Like for example,

Brushing my teeth,

I do it every day,

Twice a day.

It's not a strong sunscar for me per se.

Strong,

I mean emotional voltage,

Like you said.

So it's not emotionally strong.

Brushing the teeth,

I do it like a habit.

I'm thinking about something or listening to a podcast and brushing my teeth.

There's no emotion.

It's just a habit I've made that I have to do.

So that's an experience.

But the strongest samskaras,

Either positive or negative,

Are made with experience combined with strong emotion while it's happening.

You know,

And you guys know my story of my father dying.

That is a very strong samskara for me.

It's so strong that a few years after he died,

I was just on the road driving,

Not even near where he died,

A few hours away,

Just driving down the road.

You know,

I found myself in front of,

Behind an ambulance.

You know,

With the lights going,

And they were pumping somebody's chest,

And someone was having a heart attack,

And that's the same thing.

I had to go behind the ambulance the day my dad died,

And I watched them pumping his chest,

And we lived 30 minutes from the hospital.

And I'm driving the car the whole time watching that.

I you know.

I completely had a flashback,

You know,

And I had a panic attack.

It was unprocessed trauma for me.

So that's a very heavy experience,

Even though it was like years later.

Why?

Because the emotions there from when he died were undigested,

Some of that anxiety and shock and terror of losing my father in that way.

So now,

But if you compare that to brushing the teeth,

There's no emotional thing that's going to come up about brushing the teeth,

Right?

So that's just an example to see the range you can go from some scars.

Now let's go to childhood for a minute.

All of us,

As my guests,

Have had at least one experience in childhood where our parent betrayed our trust.

And imagine if you had many.

And by betrayal of trust,

You'd have to do your own thing.

Work on figuring out what that means because some of it's very subtle betrayal.

And some of it's more obvious.

So the more times that your parents have broken your trust,

Mother or father,

Or both,

You think you're gonna trust the guru?

All those some scars are going to get projected onto him.

Because of those heavy,

Heavy childhood experiences of parents betraying your trust.

What we want to make sure we don't do is criticize ourselves,

Beat ourselves up for not being able to trust Babaji,

Because most of us didn't have some amazing childhood where our parents were always there for us and we had this beautiful,

Secure attachment.

So,

Part of the path of Bhakti Yoga is compassion for others,

But it starts with compassion for ourself,

Realizing,

Okay,

Well,

How is it possible that I could trust my guru?

That's okay.

That's what we're here for.

All of us have anarthas.

Anarthas are coming up.

So in other words,

Once you intellectually say,

I trust you and I've taken you as my guru and I want to follow you,

It doesn't mean automatically,

Presto,

I give you my life and I'm surrendered.

That's out of the books of the shastra from a long time ago.

But now,

We didn't have those blissful,

Perfect childhoods.

So we have to see where we stand and say,

Okay,

Of course I can't trust him.

I want to.

What it means to,

But I don't,

Because trust is kind of like.

.

.

Concept it's a concept you can say you do but actually if you look at your behavior,

You don't you know so but that doesn't mean you Beat yourself up you just say okay I don't and here's why because I'm going against a lot of heavy childhood some scars where the main people who are supposed to be there for me We're not So not only why would I trust Babaji,

Why would I trust anybody?

Why would I trust anybody?

It's not only him.

If you analyze your relations,

You know,

So trust is also a samskara.

It's not something different.

Why you're saying it's in your head,

It's because it's a.

.

.

A light one,

It's not a heavy one for you.

Because you have lack of trust as the heavy one.

That's a very heavy samskara.

Most of us have that.

So we're going against that.

The trust one,

It's also a samskara,

But it's just,

You know,

Trusting that somebody's really been there for you and you can trust their words and all that.

That's harder.

That's,

For most of us,

It's a flimsy one.

It's like a little piece of paper that can rip,

Whereas the lack of trust for people who,

You know,

For trusting their words and all that is a heavy one,

Emotionally weighted,

Because remember I was saying,

Like,

Early years,

Seven to ten years,

Those first seven to ten years of life.

That's when the emotions are completely raw.

The samskara is made on raw emotion,

No buddhi,

No intelligence,

Not like,

Oh,

Dad's.

.

.

Obviously depressed and having an issue.

That's why I can't trust him.

It's not like that.

It's like,

Oh my God,

You know,

He broke my trust.

And you're just crying and you're scared and you feel that there's nobody for me.

That's all.

It's all emotions.

So then when somebody comes in your life like Babaji,

Who's like this beautiful person who's very trustworthy,

We can see it.

Kind of,

Because sometimes people can't even see that.

They'll be so triggered by this I'm scarred that they'll even read his.

.

.

How he's acting in the wrong way like I did.

See,

He's giving me the silent treatment.

You know,

I don't even trust that he's,

You know,

So there's,

You know,

That's the difference is that the trust is a concept,

Which is also a samskara,

But there's not the emotional part to it,

Because we haven't had a good experience of it.

So once you can see it mechanically,

Then it's like,

Oh,

Of course,

I'm going against like a 500-pound elephant of non-trust and an ant of trust.

You might have had one little experience here and there,

But even if you had it,

Oftentimes it's not emotional because we're so shut down from feeling,

From trusting people,

That even when somebody good comes in our life,

We can't actually feel in.

We misperceive them as well.

We put them in the category of not trustworthy.

And our samskara makes us choose and want to come close to people who are not trustworthy and then make them trustworthy.

We work so hard for the happy ending.

I want that person.

And why are you attracted to that person who's not trustworthy?

It feels so good.

It feels so comfortable.

Because they're just like your untrustworthy parent.

So it's so messy to get out of,

But once you can see it more clearly,

It's like,

All right,

You can analyze the relations you're in,

Who you're coming close to and be like,

Does this feel kind of like.

.

.

Don't analyze the person.

Analyze how you feel in their presence,

How you feel in that relation.

Oftentimes,

You know,

It's gonna if you if you really pick it apart,

Especially if you work with the therapist They can help you see it.

Sometimes you can't because you're using your own Some scars to see it,

But if you pick it apart and go oh my god.

Oh my god Of course,

And then the nice person,

You know,

The one who's actually trying to be nice to you,

You're not used to how that feels,

So you're like,

Why would they just be nice to me?

No,

This is too weird.

They have some ulterior motive.

But the ones who are being nice,

Actually sometimes they're very good manipulators.

So you're going to think the manipulator is the genuinely nice one,

The sincere one,

And you're going to think the sincere one ism.

The manipulator.

The wires get crossed,

You know.

So that's all going on.

When we think of trust.

That's why it's not a small thing and I'm glad you brought it up.

It's a big topic,

You know.

I just felt the whole energy in the room go down.

It's like,

Oh.

Is it too much?

Yes,

Be that.

So now,

What are things that we can do to improve?

Our levels of trust.

Good question.

So remember,

Who's not trusting?

Is it Vilas now,

Ladali today,

Here at Vrindavan?

Who's not trusting?

Always remember that you're inner child.

So you have to learn how to nurture your inner child.

That's why I was saying compassion,

Kindness,

Of course you don't trust.

Retell their story to them so they feel validated.

Of course you don't trust them.

Because mom wasn't here for you when you really needed her.

Because dad was checked out,

Dad was depressed,

Or whatever the reason is,

You need to know a little bit about the reasons why you don't trust and validate your inner child.

And say,

Of course you don't trust,

But you know what?

You can trust me.

I'm your parent now,

Not me,

But you,

Each of you has an inner child and you have to say you can trust me.

And then you have to not use those cheap words.

You have to actually show it.

By showing up regularly for your inner child,

By making him or her feel that you're there,

That you see what they need.

Most of you guys,

Well,

The ones who work with me are doing that work with me.

It depends on what you bring to therapy.

It's your choice what you bring to therapy.

I'm not going to be like,

Why didn't you bring your inner child?

Let's work with your inner child.

It's your choice.

You know,

If you're working with your inner child and you feel fine,

That you're feeling more secure and all that,

You don't need to do it.

But if you're not,

It'd be a good idea to bring it up and I can help you.

You can record me also in the session,

Nurturing Your Inner Child,

So then you can listen to it over and over again and get the hang of that,

You know?

But that's where the truss got broken,

So I need to go to the root and heal it at that level.

Does that make sense,

Villas?

It makes a lot of sense.

Thank you.

And I have a question about getting into heaven samskara of nourishing our own being.

Getting really into the role of being our own.

Give our trustworthy.

Relation for ourselves and so on.

Sometimes,

Almost all the time.

Is that I don't even know where to start.

Because missing that type of samskara So it's like.

.

.

I understand it here,

But how to do it?

So that's why my question is,

From where to start to be really actively?

Replacing and being there for ourselves and for others.

Wounded.

Little child who needs all this type of assistance actually.

With the feeling.

Starting with the feelings.

So when we find ourselves in a state one feeling which is coming up.

And try to find why.

Just try to acknowledge the feelings.

Most of the times,

We're not even doing that.

Even,

Like,

Naintree,

Your example of eating the chocolate,

And you're like,

Okay,

Okay,

Do it with awareness.

Okay,

I'm aware.

Ooh,

This tastes good,

You know?

So,

The awareness is of your feelings.

Not of the fact you're eating the chocolate,

But go deeper.

Not even why,

But how are you feeling?

And you're like,

Oh,

You know,

I'm actually completely stressed out right now because X,

Y,

And Z.

You see what I'm saying?

So name the feeling and name the reason.

Remember I've given you guys that sentence structure.

I feel this because of this.

I feel this way because of that.

So that is such a basic thing it seems,

But it's the key into your samskaras,

It's the key into your inner child.

So that's why it's so important to use that structure.

So,

If you're having the chocolate,

Then you can say,

Of course I'm having it,

But the awareness is,

How am I feeling?

Get out your feelings,

Will.

Okay,

I'm feeling highly anxious right now.

I'm feeling rejected,

I'm feeling disconnected,

I'm feeling lonely,

It's something like that.

So you feel the feeling and then you tell why.

It's not random.

That's the thing is we are so,

Most of us,

Invalidated with our feelings as children.

That we're not even used to putting the story with why.

First of all,

We're not used to being asked how you feel.

And second of all,

If you are asked how you feel,

We're not used to taking the time to figure out,

Well,

What's actually going on for you right now?

Because it's valid.

We're like a machine in a way,

You know?

We have our programs of some scars,

We have a program of our body.

It's a machine.

Like,

Just say you're driving and it's shaking and it's breaking down.

Wouldn't you be like,

I wonder what's wrong with this thing?

Oh,

Somebody put sand in the tank of the gasoline.

I mean,

There's always a reason why it's doing it,

So for us too.

But we don't give ourselves the time to do that because our parents didn't do that for us.

We either have some vice,

You know?

Like a chocolate,

Or we try to distract ourselves by talking to other people,

Or we actually pick the person who made that thing come up on us.

And either perseverate on them or try to talk it out with them or something instead of getting to the root,

Which is okay.

I'm feeling something because of something.

So let's figure out what that is,

And then let's.

.

.

I've got to do something about it.

Like I'm eating the chocolate because I'm tired.

Maybe you need to take a break.

That type of thing.

That's the awareness.

Because you're aware of how you feel and why you're doing what you're doing,

And then you adjust.

Just like you would if you have a guest.

And your guest is cold.

You're not like,

Oh,

She's shaking.

She looks cold.

Oh,

Well.

Are you going to be like that?

You're like,

She's shaking.

She looks cold.

Here,

Have a blanket.

Anything else you need?

Oh,

You want a warm drink too.

So this is what we need to do for ourselves.

As well.

Does that make sense?

Come on.

It's practical.

Yes,

It's very practical and a lot of sense.

Now you start to grasp it also.

It's a mechanism,

As you say,

But it's the way to get into it.

It's easy once you get used to it.

And the thing is that we're doing it all day long,

Usually for other people or things.

I mean,

You see a dog or a cow or an animal and you're like,

Oh my God,

They need milk.

They need something.

But we don't do it for ourselves when we're highly distressed.

We don't do it.

When you look at it like that,

It's like,

OMG,

You know?

Right?

But that's because of our childhood conditioning,

We are programmed not to do it.

We were programmed to pay attention to mom and dad who weren't there for us because we desperately needed their attention,

At the minimum,

And their care to survive.

So now it's very hard to unprogram that,

But once you see it,

And even look at your eyes,

They're looking out.

Our eyes are not looking in,

So you have to reprogram yourself to look in,

And that was actually mom's job.

In the first year of life.

That's how the attachment,

The secure attachment is made.

So if mom was attuning to your feelings instead of to her own self.

Then you would have learned how to do that and eventually over time you would have,

Not in a narcissistic way,

Been internally,

But.

.

.

In a way that you are taking care of your own feelings,

Your own needs,

You learn how to make healthy boundaries,

All that.

So we have to undo something that was put in us,

You know,

Probably within the first year of our life.

And that we've been acting on in that way of looking out,

Looking out for all these years.

So that's why I'm saying we have to be very compassionate and patient.

With ourselves as we grow and change and learn this.

And each time you're asking the questions,

You're going deeper,

As long as you keep thinking about it,

You know?

Like what you asked,

Lately it's going deeper.

And Kamala,

What you asked,

It's going deeper each time,

You know?

It takes a while to get the hang of it and to keep going in.

It's happening.

If you look back a year ago,

Or even at the beginning of the book club,

Four months ago,

You know,

How you saw things versus now.

Got it?

True.

Okay.

Did you have something Mohini?

I have a question.

Okay.

So when I have,

For example,

I realize that I have the issue that I.

.

.

Avoid my parents.

And I hide from them.

And now as an adult,

When I see like some people remind me of my parents,

I have like the same pattern to avoid them,

Or I feel uncomfortable when they come.

How do you come out of this?

That,

I would say,

If you understand why you're doing it,

Then you can get out of it.

And you're doing it because you're not really avoiding your parents.

You're avoiding how they treated you as a child.

You're some scars of pain.

That's why.

Any person who reminds you of them,

They're just triggering that samskara.

So you're not really avoiding,

I mean,

Some random people who represent parents.

That's weird,

Right?

Why would it be like that?

So if you look,

It's because not even how your parents are now,

Because you're a full-grown,

Very independent,

Competent lady now.

So you're not avoiding.

.

.

You're basically just avoiding the pain of what your parents created in you a long time ago.

And when you see them,

When you interact with them,

They rip that scab off again,

And same with any other parents.

So you have to understand what you're really avoiding.

How it looks on the outside,

If you're looking through the Vedic psychology glasses,

Is that you're running away from yourself.

Because the subscribers are in you.

You know,

And you're like,

Oh God,

Because when they get triggered,

You're like,

Oh get away,

Because you're trying to get away from the person who triggered it,

Instead of working on dealing with them yourself.

So the way to deal with them is what I've been saying.

Recognize your feeling,

Recognize it's not coming from your parents anymore.

They put the initial thing in there when you were a little girl.

That's why it was so painful.

You didn't have the protection you needed.

But now you're a full grown woman.

You can make boundaries with them.

They won't hurt you like that.

So you have to see mechanically where it is.

The issue is inside of you and then you have to learn how to nurture your inner child.

Avoidance attitudes toward those people and I just avoid any interactions with them and that is then also very difficult to overcome because the relationships get fixed by this and every time reacting the same way that oh this is uncomfortable that this person is coming So it's the samskarans out of you you're reacting to.

Not the person,

That's the whole riddle about samskaras.

That that what I project on that relationship that will also drop-off.

That's how you know that some scar is healed.

It's a tough job,

Though.

You have to probably work with a therapist.

Those things I haven't seen people just heal on their own.

You have to work with someone regularly and have them.

You know,

Share what those samskaras are that are bothering you and really digest them and nurture your inner child.

Anything else?

We got into some deep topics today,

Good ones.

Should we start reading?

And everybody online has been so quiet.

Nobody.

No questions,

No comments,

No reflections.

Okay.

So let's read chapter 10.

Babaji bashes my addiction affliction.

Long before I had ever met Babaji,

I had heard from a friend that you should not get too close to your guru.

Otherwise,

You will get burnt.

And if you think about it,

Do you think that friend who told me that trusted his guru?

You think he had a great relationship with his parents?

Probably not.

So what he probably meant was,

Don't get too close to your father.

You see how some scars work?

I didn't get it then,

But now I hear his words ringing in my ears.

For there was never a dull moment in life on the road with Babaji.

He was always taking opportunities to help me get out of my samskaras that were holding me back.

If only I could have seen my benevolent guru through this lens.

Perhaps I could have been more accepting when he confronted me about my problematic behaviors.

But unfortunately,

That was not the case for all the stories I have shared thus far.

As well as for this next story.

That unfolded in Poland.

As I sat in my speaker's chair,

Bundled up in my winter jacket and shivering,

I looked over at Babaji,

Calmly talking to the group of students,

Sat in front of us.

We have been invited to teach a course on Vedic psychology in the quiet beach town of Bobolan.

I had learned that when we taught in cold places like the castle in France where it had snowed in May.

Do you remember that letter?

And this pretty yet frigid beach town in Poland.

A warm beverage was just what the doctor ordered.

I took pleasure each morning in my routine of making my piping hot chai and then sipping it as I listened to Babaji deliver his inspiring words of wisdom.

Sometimes when we were teaching,

One cup of chai just wasn't enough.

I needed a double dose to pep up.

So on the teaching break,

I would make a second cup.

On one such occasion,

When I returned to my seat next to Babaji,

He said to me,

Prabhupada told his wife that she had to choose between the chai or him.

Do you want tea or me?

The wife chose the chai and so he left her.

That's what he said.

I'm like,

Good morning.

I was barely recovered from the fainting at the,

You know,

With the blood,

And then he's like,

He's relentless.

I laughed thinking that he was making a joke.

But my response was not met with a smile.

He simply turned his head away from me and started talking to the students in the class.

Silent treatment,

I guess.

My mind started reeling,

What?

Was he serious?

I've been drinking chai and coffee around him for years.

And although I said I'll stop someday,

I didn't think it had to be right now.

Plus,

I'm not his wife,

Obviously.

He's my guru,

So he can't leave me if I don't stop drinking chai.

How does me drinking chai affect him?

This is crazy.

What?

Why does he have to tell me right now?

It's such an inconvenient time when we're sitting in front of the class and I'm about to teach my part.

He has the worst timing to drop this bomb on me right now and throw me off.

Doesn't he know that?

So Jessica will explain this part,

Babaji's friendly voice cut through my ruminating mind.

The room was silent and all the students were staring at me.

Feeling like I just wanted to go back up to my room and crawl into bed under the heavy warm covers and sleep,

I looked past the students at the handsome wooden double doors at the back of the room beckoning me.

My exit.

For just through those doors and up two short flights of stairs was my cozy room with the fluffy white down comforter waiting to embrace me.

I could be there in two minutes flat.

Run!

I imagined just relaxing under the soft covers as I sip my hot chai.

Ah,

Now this is heaven.

Thank God there wasn't a CCTV recorder in my brain.

Babaji couldn't hear all that going on.

Jessica?

Babaji repeated my name,

Jarring me out of my daydream.

I quickly put down my lovely cup of warm,

Creamy sweet chai and I began teaching.

And for the remaining three days that we were in Poland,

I continued to make my chai and drink it.

Babaji didn't say anything.

So I assumed his distasteful comment was actually just to tease me about my chai addiction.

I laughed at myself at how I had overreacted to his joke.

Taking it so seriously and so personally.

As the days and the weeks passed at each new place that we taught at.

I found my chai fix somehow.

And with each passing day,

Babaji didn't say anything.

So I knew for sure that he was fine with it.

Well?

That was until I found out that he wasn't.

What a rude awakening!

One day,

When we were teaching in the USA,

I stopped at a gas station in New York.

I was feeling very sleepy as all the traveling and teaching was catching up with me.

I found myself dozing off at the wheel.

When I was driving.

So of course I did what any normal person would do,

Right?

I got myself a caffeinated beverage for a little pick-me-up.

A Starbucks caramel?

Latte to be exact.

Do you guys know that one?

The whipped cream,

The caramel drizzle.

Okay?

As I was driving down the road,

Feeling the buzz of the sugary coffee drink,

Babaji nonchalantly asked me why I was drinking it.

I simply told him the truth.

I was tired and the caffeine helped me to wake up.

Babaji matter-of-factly quipped that if I was tired I should sleep.

I nodded in agreement with him.

Taking another sip of my latte.

Yes,

I hear you.

Thank you for sharing.

And when I ordered it,

I was like,

Babaji,

Can you.

.

.

Can you pass it through?

I forgot how it went,

But I remember he took the latte and he was handing it over.

I'm like,

Oh,

Thank you.

He didn't say anything else and we drove in silence.

That was normal for him as car and plane rides are time for him to meditate and time for me to drink a chai or latte.

So that is what I did as the miles passed on the long drive from New Jersey to the countryside of upstate New York.

As usual,

Babaji sat quietly.

Hour after hour,

Not uttering a word.

This day was like no other on our teaching tour.

In which I drove through countless Starbucks and Duck and Donuts drive-thrus to get my caffeine fixes.

Needless to say,

We eventually arrived peacefully at our next destination.

A gorgeous mansion on a beautiful secluded property hundreds of miles from New York City.

I think maybe Barrett is on this call.

He was there and he made me beautiful chai.

I remember that morning,

We were like cheers.

He's the best chai maker.

We had been invited to teach on the timeless classic,

The Bhagavad Gita.

In its practical application to our modern day life.

Babaji and I had carefully created a PowerPoint presentation to highlight the key points we wanted to teach.

Mainly focusing on not being attached to material pleasures because,

Ultimately,

This always ends in suffering.

As a psychotherapist from America,

My teaching role was to make Babaji's ancient philosophical teachings practical.

So the modern person could relate them to their life.

In this case,

I had planned to take the students through a group exercise about attachment.

I prepared a case study of a fictitious client who is depicted as being attached to being beautiful.

As well as to her possessions,

Such as her fancy car and her gorgeous husband.

After setting up the PowerPoint and projector,

I took my seat next to Babaji.

After I took a sip of my oversized mug of much-deserved piping hot chai.

I smiled at Babaji.

Ready?

I asked.

Yes,

He said in his typical serene manner.

I clicked on the first slide.

He began speaking about attachment as plant.

But within five minutes,

Babaji,

He veered off course and he began talking about addiction.

He started giving examples of how people make excuses for their addictions so they can keep taking the addictive substance.

Then he literally started telling stories about me and the exact things that I had been doing and saying to justify my caffeine addiction.

He didn't use my name?

But I knew he was talking about me for sure.

I felt a rush of feelings come over me.

I felt humiliated,

Angry,

And ashamed.

How could he?

I thought in disbelief.

If he has a real problem with me drinking caffeine,

Why doesn't he just tell me directly?

And why does he have to tell me now?

In this indirect,

Cryptic way,

Which only makes me feel embarrassed and ruins our whole plan and what we're teaching.

I could feel the blood rushing to my cheeks.

My face flushed.

An entire hour passed by in which Babaji hammered his point.

Not once talking about the material we had so thoughtfully and meticulously prepared.

The presentation sat frozen on the screen.

Never advancing past the first slide.

A beautiful PowerPoint gone to waste.

Never mind the amount of sleep I lost perfecting it the night before until the wee hours of the morning.

The thing is when we would travel,

What would happen is we would pack everything in together.

Wherever we were going,

We'd like land in one place.

And as soon as we got there,

Basically I had to go to my room and maybe see two or three clients.

I never canceled any sessions.

So if I'm seeing 20 clients in a week,

Somehow on top of teaching,

Creating the PowerPoints,

Flying,

Driving,

I'm also trying to see my clients.

Sometimes at 11 p.

M.

I'd see them or whenever,

5 a.

M.

,

6 a.

M.

I didn't want to disrupt my clients' session.

So I was so tired.

It was very,

Very hard,

Actually,

To do it.

And what I probably should have done,

Looking back,

Is.

.

.

Is not do so much,

Either not see the clients.

Over those weeks or months,

I guess.

It was a very difficult time.

You know,

Like.

Schedule basically very hectic and also on a personal level.

I was in my 40s at that time now I'm 50 about to be 53,

But it was about 10 years ago And those are the years for women who women and menopause sorry perimenopause And I had no idea that that was also happening for me.

And the reason why I'm saying it now is because now I'm in menopause and I wish 10 years ago I understood what was happening to my body.

So I was also,

My hormones were starting to decline and I was really having a problem with sleep and a lot of other things.

So caffeine I was using to make myself even feel halfway normal.

Anyway,

That's a longer story and I'll probably tell it at the end of this because it's related to what's happening now for me and why I had to take a break and get a surgery and all that.

So this is an important thing I'm just saying for women.

Because Vedic psychology isn't just about the mind,

It's about the body too.

And I was disconnected from what was happening in my body and I didn't write this in the book at the time because I didn't know it.

I'm just learning it in the past few months.

Actually my history,

You know,

And so if there's any woman who could feel inspired who is not Or men too,

It could be your partner.

It could be someone in your life,

You know,

Someone you care about that's a woman.

Menopause usually starts around young 40s,

And that's when the hormones start going off,

And you might feel very exhausted,

More moody.

A lot of things happen emotionally.

That you don't realize it's actually perimenopause,

You know?

And that's what was happening to me in that I'm not trying to make excuses,

But I'm just saying that's another factor that was going on with my exhaustion on top of I was pushing myself so hard with seeing clients and doing the PowerPoints and then traveling and teaching and all that.

Anyway,

It's a lot.

I could feel the blood rushing to my cheeks,

My face flushed,

An entire hour passed by in which Babaji hammered his point,

Not once talking about the material we had so thoughtfully and meticulously prepared.

The presentation sat frozen on the screen,

Never advancing past the first slide,

A beautiful PowerPoint gone to waste,

Never mind the amount of sleep I lost perfecting it the night before until the wee hours of the morning.

When the class was over,

I went to my room and I cried.

As my hot tears hit the pillow,

I felt confused and overwhelmed by Babaji's approach.

I took a shower to try and relax,

But it didn't help.

And also our teaching schedule usually would be.

Two to three hours in the morning and two to three hours in the afternoon.

So there wasn't a lot of time,

And then I'm also trying to cram in seeing clients eat,

Meet with people in person,

You know,

And prepare for wherever we're going next.

So this emotional breakdown I had was also part,

I think,

Of perimenopause.

When your emotions get out of whack,

It makes you more emotional.

You cry more easily.

You outburst in anger more easily.

And the way I look at it,

And I've heard some doctors talk about it,

Is all the feelings that you didn't acknowledge and express in your 30s and 20s and teens.

In the 40s and 50s,

They come blasting out.

So that's what I think was happening for me,

Because usually I wouldn't cry that easily.

A lot of different doctors,

You can research it and see.

There's lots of different professional views on it.

I forgot the woman's name who had said that,

But she wrote a very good famous book.

It might be called Our Bodies,

Ourselves or something like that.

I don't have it,

But it's.

.

.

You have to kind of see a lot of different opinions and see what one resonates with you and what one feels validating for you,

You know?

Um.

.

.

Okay,

I took a shower and I tried to relax,

But it didn't help.

At lunch with the students,

I put on a smile,

And I tried my best to engage in conversation with Babaji and the others,

Even though I felt betrayed by him.

After lunch,

When we were on a walk with the group,

I found a moment to speak with Babaji when the other students were not within earshot.

I said,

Babaji,

I know that you were talking about me in your lecture.

I heard your message loud and clear and I will stop drinking the chai.

Babaji looked straight ahead.

He didn't even look at me.

As he continued walking and he said,

Good.

And he did not elaborate.

You can relate to that comment.

Bye!

Who this is like?

Good.

I'm like,

Okay.

So in other words,

Before it was bad.

Yes.

Okay.

I didn't know.

I didn't know.

What else to say?

So we walked in silence.

That night I stayed up late and I created an entirely new case study.

To share with the students.

Forget about my fictitious client,

Because we were teaching,

I think,

For five days.

So we had to have material,

And I had been making the PowerPoint,

But that's not what he wanted to use.

Forget about my fictitious client who was attached to her own beauty and possessions.

This new case study was about yours truly.

I described a woman who used to be a business executive and gulped down Starbucks lattes by the gallon.

To illustrate her attachment,

I listed all of her good reasons why she needed caffeine.

And of course,

The resulting suffering that occurred when she didn't get her fix.

The next morning I met with Babaji,

As usual,

To discuss our teaching plan for the day.

I told him I had prepared a new case study and I presented it to him.

His eyes glimmered as he said,

This is very good.

That afternoon,

I presented the case study about the woman who was addicted to caffeine,

And a lively debate ensued among us all.

I don't know if you remember that Bharata,

But it was very heated because other people in the group also drank caffeine.

They're like,

What?

And we never said it was me.

I never said it was me and Babaji didn't say,

And so people were like,

This girl has a serious problem.

" And I'm like,

She does.

Yeah,

She really does.

Anything else you want to say in there?

I mean,

She's completely lying to the groom like she was.

Anything else?

Babaji taught about attachment and how the mind works to rationalize our addictions.

Some of the students debated directly with Babaji about their own need for caffeine,

Blaming it on the Western lifestyle,

Such as when forced to work long hours or when pursuing a master's degree.

I secretly agreed with their arguments,

Actually.

And hope that maybe,

Possibly,

They could convince Babaji of the need for caffeine.

I held myself back from adding my point to their argument,

The very important point of the necessity of caffeine to combat driver fatigue.

I mean,

Can you imagine you're driving and nodding off and Babaji's in the passenger seat?

I felt so bad.

I'm like,

I'm sorry.

I don't want to get in an accident.

I just need one coffee.

Despite that,

I was impressed with the students' arguments.

They were as relentless as Babaji,

Passionately promoting their points,

And adamant that they were right.

But no dice.

Babaji held strong on his one and only point.

No caffeine.

Realizing my love affair with Chai was over from this day forward only made my raging caffeine withdrawal headache that much worse.

There we were teaching.

That was in Bobolan.

This chair kind of looks like that,

Doesn't it?

Actually?

All the way in Poland.

Okay.

I was addicted to caffeine and I had to stop.

Caffeine was an attachment that I had to break.

It was not conducive to progressing in spiritual life,

And Babaji had made his point abundantly clear.

And to be honest,

When I reflected upon how caffeine affected me,

It was not good.

Caffeine had a bad effect on my mind,

Making it race.

Even one cup of it sent my mind into super speedy mode.

It wasn't good for me to be moving that fast as my mind is fast enough without caffeine.

That's what he told me.

He told me you have a very fast mind.

You don't need to slick it with the caffeine.

Plus,

I always felt hungover the morning after drinking it.

So I knew.

It was not good to be drinking it for a variety of reasons.

Most importantly,

Because of the spiritual path I'm on,

We are working on freeing our minds from our material attachment.

And caffeine was surely a big attachment for me.

A few weeks later,

After our teaching programs were over and we were about to go our separate ways,

I said to Babaji,

I haven't drank any caffeine since the day I promised you that I'd stop.

He didn't say anything.

I felt disappointed that he didn't congratulate me for overcoming this addiction so quickly and without complaining.

His lack of response made me feel invalidated,

Dismissed,

And like my accomplishment was no big deal.

So I'll leave it there.

We'll keep going next week.

Yeah,

We have quite a bit more to go.

Okay you guys,

So anything you want to share so far about my addiction?

My caffeine addiction and how Babaji.

.

.

Put me in the hot seat about that.

I found an interesting point when you said that you felt betrayed by Babaji.

Whereas it should perhaps been the other way around,

That you were Babaji's disciple and you were sort of not following his instruction.

So this is,

I guess,

The effect of the attachment.

That when a person sees his own way or her own way,

Then the understanding of reality becomes,

You know,

A little bit modified or changed.

And then that's why you saw it that,

I mean,

You took it as a betrayal when he did not accept your,

You know,

Willingness to go on with the with the chai.

With the child.

So why do you think I felt betrayed by him?

Because he didn't let me go with the child?

Well,

These were your words,

I think,

That you read.

You felt betrayed.

But why?

Does anybody know why?

Is it because I couldn't have the chai?

Why would I feel betrayed?

I understood you felt betrayed because he pointed it actually out in front of everyone.

You know,

Without saying your name.

Okay,

Let's hear some other ideas.

Go Herbilas!

I understood that you felt betrayed because he did not acknowledge your success.

So he pointed out in front of everyone,

He didn't acknowledge my success.

What do you think,

Shilesh?

Because I can't have the chai?

Because he pointed out that I was drinking chai in front of everybody.

That's why I felt betrayed,

Okay?

Where is he going to find me?

Actually,

It would be nice to see that point again,

To revisit it.

Where was it exactly?

I just remember that there was a mention that you felt betrayed.

So it could be for many reasons,

Right?

One of them was because he's kind of,

I mean,

What you said,

Like he's pointing out what I'm doing in front of other people.

Especially because I'm in the role of a teacher,

You know,

And he's pointing it out.

To me,

I would say I also felt like humiliated by that.

Yeah,

But the betrayal also was because how would you feel if you were running on maybe three hours of sleep?

And you had made a plan that you're going to present a certain thing,

You know,

And that you spent many hours working on that and then you show up.

And then the person who you made the plan with,

That you're going to teach that,

Just does something totally different.

You know that's to me as a betrayal of his word because he said we're going to present on this thing so I felt betrayed because I'm not saying I didn't betray him,

That's a different issue,

But I felt betrayed because we agreed on something and I was running on fumes.

I was so tired anyway.

I almost ran off the road driving,

Right?

So obviously I wasn't doing good.

I needed to sleep,

But instead of sleeping,

I tried to create a PowerPoint based on what we discussed.

That we were going to present.

So I felt betrayed because when I got there and he's talking about my caffeine addiction.

That I felt betrayed.

That was the main reason why.

To your point,

Shailesh,

Which is a very subtle and very good point.

When you are triggered by your own samskara,

You definitely can't see how you're affecting the other person.

As you see,

I didn't probably write anywhere in this chapter that I betrayed him.

I betrayed my word to him.

It's only about what he did to me.

And that's how you can tell when you're knee-deep or even higher.

Neck deep in your own feelings,

In your own samskaras.

He betrayed me.

You know,

Instead of thinking,

Well,

Wait a minute,

Hmm,

Could it be that I did anything to betray him?

Not there,

Right?

I felt betrayed.

I felt humiliated.

So last year I was teaching that a lot.

The story always starts,

Unless we're very aware,

With what he did to me.

I'm some perfected being.

Can you believe he betrayed me out of nowhere?

What's his problem?

Did he wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

He's in a bad mood today?

Instead of being like,

Oh,

Like you're saying,

Hmm.

I also made a promise to him and I betrayed first.

But once that I did not,

I don't get that.

How you can do it.

I mean as a disciple I said I'm not going to drink.

Uh,

Caffeine.

So,

But my story is talking about how he betrayed me.

Do you think he would betray me if I hadn't betrayed him?

I'm not saying he's doing tip for tap,

But I'm saying he's giving a strong reaction to my bad behavior.

And that's not how we see ourselves.

That hankara blocks us from seeing what we did to get this response.

His behavior,

Why he did it,

Was exactly in exact relationship to what I did first.

And that was what you were saying,

You know.

Was I considering how I betrayed him?

It's a very subtle point,

But I would say 50% of successful therapy,

At least,

Is if I can help the client realize that they started it.

They don't want to hear that,

So that could take years.

First,

I have to build a therapeutic bond.

First,

You have to trust me,

Which means you have to get over how your mother hurt you,

Basically,

To trust me.

And then if we eventually can get there.

Then I can help you,

You know,

We do baby steps to see how you actually started it.

All the suffering you're experiencing is actually you started it.

But nobody wants to hear that.

So we have to go a lot around in a lot of different ways.

I don't even want to hear it.

That's why I didn't write it in there.

See,

He betrayed me.

So it's not an easy point.

But I'm just giving you the cliff notes on therapy and how to be successful in life.

It's to start the story always one frame back.

He did this to me,

She did this to me.

Okay,

Rewind back.

And what did you do?

You were just a completely innocent person and all this and this person randomly came up and betrayed you?

Probably not.

So let's end on that point.

I don't want to take too much more time.

Okay,

So thank you guys very much for being here.

We've had a good discussion.

I have some prasad from Babaji.

He asked me to share this.