12. The Hidden Power Of Storytelling

Okay,

Welcome to.

For a book club.

Um.

.

.

So last week we read the children's story about Sheba's big secret and I talked about working with the kids in the hospital.

And today I have a question for you guys because we didn't finish this chapter yet.

So there's a few more pages talking about my work with the kids at the hospital and the stories about the tiger's trick.

But this is like a choose your own adventure path.

We can either continue reading this chapter,

The last few pages,

And discuss it.

Or I can read you another story that I wrote with one of the kids.

It's up to you.

If you got the gist of it with the worksheet with the Shiva's Big Secret,

That's fine.

I have two other stories.

I remember I told you there's three I wrote.

The other story is called Freedom the Runaway Cheetah,

And it was about a teenage boy who ran away from home.

And we got to the root cause of why.

And the other one is called Smiles the Cutting Cat,

And it's about a girl who used to cut herself.

And we got to the root cause of why.

So they're not very uplifting stories.

I think the other one I read was pretty heavy.

So if you guys are OK,

We can go.

Or if you're like,

Oh,

I want to hear more of the kids' stories,

I can do that.

Does anybody have a preference?

Move,

Move,

Okay.

Kids stories?

Okay,

One for the kids stories,

One for Move On.

Kid Stories 2,

2 for the Kid Stories,

1 for Move On.

How about online?

Kid's Story.

Okay,

So three for Kid's Story,

One for Move On.

Book two for the book.

It's going to probably be a tie.

Kid's story.

OK.

Only one person voted from online,

And everybody else is just fine with whatever?

Kid's story.

Kid's story.

Okay.

There's two more kid's stories.

How about I read one of them and then we move on.

Would that be a good compromise?

Okay,

So there's Freedom the Runaway Cheetah or Smiles the Cutting Cat.

Huh?

Freedom the Runaway Cheetah?

Any other strong,

Chameleza Cutting Cat is heavier because she's cutting herself,

You know?

Freedom the Runaway Cheetah is about to run away.

Okay,

Okay.

So we'll do Freedom the Runaway Cheetah,

Okay?

So,

This is the life story of.

.

.

One of the boys in the hospital in that group.

And I did the same thing I did when we wrote Shiva's Big Secret.

I interviewed him,

He picked the pictures and all that.

So here's his story.

In the great plains of Africa,

There once lived a cheetah named Freedom.

He was a teenager,

14 years old to be exact.

Freedom lived in the open lands,

Where there is a lot of room to roam around.

Hang out with friends,

And to just have fun.

His father also let him do almost anything that he wanted,

Without many rules.

Freedom got to sleep in late,

Eat whatever food he wanted.

Run around as much and as fast as he wanted.

And even unlimited talking and texting on his phone with girls.

You can tell that he wrote this.

However,

This was not enough.

Freedom for our dear cheetah.

Freedom wanted more freedom.

And look at the picture.

How do I show it again?

Like that on the camera?

I don't know if you can see it,

But.

.

.

This is the picture he picked of this cheetah running really fast with dirt getting kicked up.

Okay.

So then the question that we asked the group together was,

When we read it to the group,

Can you guess what kind of freedom he wanted?

Like what more could he want,

Right?

He could just do it.

It was basically that Dad had no rules for him.

So what kind of freedom did he want?

And the kids all were guessing,

You know,

That was an interesting conversation.

The next part is freedom wanted to run away from home.

He wanted an adventure.

He had a strong desire to see new landscapes,

Meet new people.

And to try new things.

So he thought to himself.

Should I run away from home?

Should I do it?

Freedom remembered something his teacher,

Babaji,

From the Center for Love had once told him,

Which was.

.

.

Before embarking on an adventure.

Why don't you carefully weigh out the advantages?

And the disadvantages.

And if there are more disadvantages,

Then you should not do it.

Intelligence means that we see both sides of a situation.

The advantages and the disadvantages,

The risks and the rewards.

Greed can blind one from seeing the disadvantages of a situation.

So freedom thought to himself.

What are the pros?

The pros are the good things about running away,

And he listed them out.

I'm an independent Gemini.

You know,

Astrology sign,

Gemini.

He's like,

I'm independent Gemini and I'm living up to my astrology sign.

Two,

Maybe I will see that pretty nice girl that I met online and that I was texting with.

If he runs away.

I could have an adventure by seeing beautiful places in nature and wildlife.

Four.

I will get my dad to prove that he really does care about me.

Because I know.

That he will give me a big cheetah hug when I return.

Oftentimes kids,

They act out like that.

I remember one of the talks I was telling you guys that,

You know,

Kids are so desperate for love and attention that if the parents aren't giving it,

They'll do anything to get it,

Even run away.

They'll do a bad behavior rather than nothing,

I mean,

To get nothing,

You know.

So isn't that sad that that's what he thought?

Yeah,

If I run away,

Maybe I can see if my dad really cares about me,

But he'd have to go to that extreme.

Okay,

So what are the cons?

I was like,

All right,

You've got enough pros.

Let's talk about some of the cons.

What are the reasons you shouldn't run away?

And he said,

Well,

One,

I could cause grief to my dad because he would feel sad and scared.

My dad would ask me a lot of questions.

Like,

Why did I run away?

That's so annoying.

That's what he said.

Because he would say things and I would say,

Let's look at the feelings wheel,

How would you feel?

And he's like,

That's annoying.

I'd feel annoyed that my dad would ask me why when I ran away.

That's how teenagers feel,

Right?

Three,

I could get sent away to a treatment center for cheetahs with mental problems.

Which was where he was at the present time with me.

I could get hurt or killed,

Like maybe I could get hit by a car or someone could attack me.

So the discussion we had with the group was,

What would you do if you were Freedom the cheetah?

Would you run away from home?

Or would you stay at home and why?

That was very good,

Going back and forth.

And sometimes what I would do is,

When I was doing these worksheets,

I would write to Babaji and tell him,

Oh,

We had a great group discussion today.

Here's what happened,

You know.

And then he would advise me.

He would say,

OK,

Next time when you see them,

Have all the people split up.

And everybody who says he should run away,

Make them sit together in a group.

And then the ones who said that he shouldn't run away,

Make them sit together and have them try to convince each other and pull to the other side.

How many people you can get to convince them,

Your point of view.

It was really fun.

So I did it,

I implemented all these types of things.

Okay,

So.

Now what happened?

Well.

.

.

Freedom decided that the benefits outweighed the consequences.

And that yes,

Indeed,

He will run away from home.

He packed a small backpack with his iPod?

Some cash,

And some clothes.

He pretended to sleep.

And he waited,

And he waited,

And he waited.

At two in the morning,

When he finally was sure that his father was sleeping,

He felt excited.

It's time for my big adventure,

He exclaimed.

He put his backpack on,

His cheetah iPod earplugs in his ears.

He turned the music on high volume and he ran.

Freedom ran fast.

He ran very,

Very fast.

As he was running,

He noticed that the landscape was changing.

He ended up running on a very,

Very long stretch of road.

There were trees lining both sides of the road,

Which seemed like forever.

He also noticed that he kept passing farmland.

He was far from home now.

He felt surprised that the landscape was so different.

And also he felt curious as to where the road was going to end up.

So then we asked the group,

Well,

How would you be feeling?

If you were freed in the cheetah right now.

How do you think his dad would be feeling?

Realizing his son has run away.

So the reason why,

I don't know if you guys noticed the line of questioning in each part of this,

Each part is that I'm trying to help the kids generate empathy.

Because if you as a child did not have a parent that had empathy for you,

Where are you going to get empathy from?

You're not going to have it.

So you have to teach it.

And the way you have to teach it is you have to.

.

.

Regularly ask,

How do you think your dad might have been feeling?

Because if I'm just saying,

How do you feel all the time,

It's just reinforcing what he needs,

Which is to be validated,

But he has to think beyond himself.

So that's why every time I put the question in,

Like,

How do you think what you did made your dad feel?

And that was very good for the kids,

For them to think themselves how they made their parent feel,

Because basically they all had no insight.

No insight at all beyond their own nose about how they feel.

So when it's like,

Do you think your dad,

And he's like,

Oh,

I think my dad might have been sad.

I'm like,

Mm-hmm.

Keep going with that.

Plus the group discussion of having,

If it's not your dad,

But you're hearing about someone else's family.

And then you can think about,

Like the other kids in the group were thinking about how he must have made his dad feel.

And sometimes that's easier when it's not you,

Because they're not really tied to the story.

So they can see more clearly,

Your dad must have probably felt really sad about that.

So that's a really helpful way to help kids practice learning empathy,

You know,

How to think beyond themselves.

And then we asked,

What would you do now if you were freedom?

Would you keep running or would you turn back home?

That was a very interesting one too.

Okay.

Freedom did not turn back.

Oh no,

That was not like him,

That independent Gemini.

He was so proud of him.

I'm like,

You didn't turn around?

Weren't you scared?

No,

No,

No,

No.

I'm a Gemini,

So independent.

I'm not turning back.

I wouldn't turn back.

I said,

OK.

He felt energetic still.

So he kept on running and running down that long,

Empty road.

Can you guys imagine?

At two in the morning,

It's pitch dark and he's running down the road.

He could have gotten hit by a car.

He could have gotten picked up by a person who's probably not a safe person for him to be in the car with,

You know?

He was thinking,

How much longer until I get to the next county?

And I wonder what kind of adventures I have.

Do you see how he was like kind of fearless?

You know,

He was in very big danger,

But he was like,

Oh,

This is fun running,

You know.

Meantime,

Back at home,

Freedom's father was feeling very scared.

Sad and worried.

He actually felt quite helpless.

He was roaming around asking all the other cheetahs if they had seen his son.

I had to write this part,

Because he couldn't imagine that.

So I kind of helped him see,

Like,

This is probably what your dad was doing at that time.

And he was like,

Oh,

Really?

I didn't even think about that,

How he affected other people,

Especially his parents.

Not one cheetah had seen him slip away that night.

So Freedom's father did what any good father would do.

He called the Cheetah Police.

Who got the word out on the five o'clock in the morning news.

They put Freedom's face on a banner on the news that said,

Missing Child.

Have you seen this cheetah child?

After a day or two,

Freedom's energy became drained,

So he was out running around for two days.

No food.

No water,

Just.

.

.

He became drained and he felt so tired and so cold.

He started daydreaming about sleeping,

All curled up near the safe watch of his father.

He also was feeling super hungry,

And he started craving juicy burgers and french fries.

He was so cold that he could see his breath in the morning,

And his teeth were chattering,

And he had nothing to keep him warm.

He did not like that feeling one bit.

So he decided to walk slowly back home.

When he arrived home,

His worried father was waiting for him.

With a concerned look on his face,

He said,

Where were you?

Why did you run away?

Freedom did not know what to say.

So he put his head down and he didn't say anything at all.

In fact,

It was then that he realized.

That maybe he didn't really actually know why he ran away.

His father gave him a big warm cheetah hug.

Some food,

And then told him to go and rest.

Then the group discussion we had was,

Do you think it was worth it for freedom to run away?

How would you be feeling now if you were freedom?

So now we had the other kids having empathy for him.

How would you be feeling?

Get out the feelings wheel.

But freedom could not rest.

That night he lay awake thinking.

Why did I really want to run away?

Why?

And this is actually what happened in therapy.

When we were writing the story,

I'm like,

Why did you actually do it,

You know?

And he was like,

I don't really know.

I'm like,

Let's think of what the options might be,

You know?

After all,

It was not a very fun adventure,

And I am exhausted.

Also,

I made my father worried.

I don't like to see him so upset.

So why did I do it?

Really,

Why?

As freedom really got to thinking,

He realized something kind of big.

Freedom realized the reason he was running.

Was actually for some deeper reason.

Freedom was trying to run away from guess what?

Anyone?

Why do you think he was trying to run away?

You have a mic?

He was abusing me.

I'm not sure if that's working.

Okay,

So one option is he was abused.

Any other ideas?

Do I have your last name?

Maybe it was due to the neglect.

Neglect,

Because the father wasn't really paying attention.

So either abuse,

Like a physical abuse,

Or neglect,

Not really paying attention,

He just kind of felt lonely or something.

Yes,

And he wanted to have this attention from his father to get the big cheetah hug when he comes back and this is also what happened.

And he got desperate maybe.

Okay,

Good,

So so.

The same as with us.

We wanted to be seen.

Yeah,

He wanted to be seen.

It can drive you to that point.

Especially if you're sitting home so alone and he's there and he's never looking at you.

Sometimes you have to do more and more and more desperate thing,

You know.

Any other ideas?

Anybody online want to take a guess?

Why?

What was driving this Freedom the Runaway Cheetah to run?

Ninety.

Any guesses?

Maybe he was angry with somebody.

Maybe angry.

Mohini.

Maybe also because I didn't hear the first part.

To run away from his own negative feelings,

To not feel them.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Very good.

And you got it.

Freedom was trying to run away from his very own painful feelings.

You got it.

So can anybody guess what those painful feelings might be?

That's what we ask the group.

Does anybody have any ideas?

What would be so,

So painful that you'd actually run away from home?

So we know it's the feelings now,

But just think of the most painful feeling you've ever felt.

What would be so painful that you're like,

Ah,

I just got to get out of here?

So painful.

Have anxiety to feel love.

Left alone.

Okay Feeling anxiety to feel left alone?

Any other ideas?

Shame,

That's a very painful one.

Go ahead,

Be lost.

I would say he felt ignored.

Ignored,

Left alone,

Shame.

Those are all very painful feelings.

Who else?

Malika?

Maybe something like caught that he cannot get out.

Trapped or something or suffocated or smothered?

Yeah.

Okay.

So then you want to run when you feel the opposite,

When you feel like someone's holding you down.

Interesting.

Was someone online going to say something?

Unwanted or rejected?

Yeah,

Unwanted,

Rejected,

That's a painful one too,

Right?

So painful when you love somebody and you get rejected by them and then you're in the house with them.

Right?

Very good.

Good job,

You guys.

So freedom the cheetah realized.

That he was trying to run away.

From these feelings,

And this is how he described them.

One.

Depressed.

Being very,

Very sad.

I felt so sad that I didn't want to talk to anyone.

I kept remembering a painful event from the past and I kept asking myself,

Why did that happen to me?

What did I do to deserve this?

Too lonely.

I was feeling like nobody's here for me and I don't have anyone.

I felt hurt and that nobody loves me.

That's pretty good for a 14-year-old,

Right,

To talk like that articulately?

And the third one?

Rejected.

I don't know the name of the person who said it,

But somebody got it online.

Rejected.

Feeling like I'm not worth anything and I don't fit in.

So after all that running,

Freedom realized that no matter how long,

Or how hard,

Or how far he ran.

He could not get away from his very own feeling.

Which followed him like a shadow wherever he went.

So we asked the group,

Can you relate to feeling any similar feeling that freedom felt?

And what do you think would be a healthy way for freedom to manage his feelings?

Can you think of any coping skills that he could use?

And what do you think freedom should tell his dad?

Now that he understands why he was really running away from home.

So we are teaching kids,

Number one,

How to get in touch with their feelings,

Number two,

How to validate them,

And number three,

How do you communicate with your parents.

Instead of just running away,

What if he told his dad,

You know?

Now the story of Freedom the Runaway Cheetah could end right here.

However,

To make any lasting change,

One has to know the root cause of their problem.

So we're not done yet.

There's a little bit more to the story of our dear friend,

Freedom.

Freedom now understood that the reason he ran away was because of his painful feelings.

But where did these painful feelings come from?

Why did he have these feelings of depression,

Of loneliness,

And of rejection?

He began to wonder,

Was I actually born this way?

As a tiny cute baby cheetah feeling depressed,

Lonely,

And rejected.

See the baby cheetah?

Was he born that way?

Oh.

What do you think?

Was Freedom the Cheetah born that way?

Is a baby having these feelings of depression,

Loneliness,

Rejection?

I ask the group,

Because some of them have been feeling like that since they can remember.

You know,

Because they were abused and neglected and on the streets.

Freedom started thinking.

Can I think of any memories of my past that might be making me feel these painful feelings?

Even though the event happened.

A long time ago.

Hmm,

Let me think.

Well,

For that depressed feeling,

I think it has to do with my parents fighting.

I can still remember when I was seven and my parents got into a bad fight.

My dad was yelling and he punched the Winnie the Pooh cookie jar and he broke it.

Shattering it all over our kitchen floor.

I felt scared,

In fact terrified,

Because I didn't know if he was going to attack my mom next.

I felt helpless and unsafe,

And I didn't know where to go.

I began shaking and my hands got sweaty.

Even though it happened seven years ago,

I can still see it so vividly,

Like a movie playing in my head sometimes.

They also fought on my sixth birthday.

I had a Shrek cape.

That was like a cartoon Shrek.

Shrek cake.

Which I was so excited to eat.

I was thinking that my brother might get one or two bites,

But since it was my birthday,

I'm gonna scarf down as much as I can of that cake.

But on that day,

I never got to eat even one bite of my birthday cake because my parents were fighting a lot.

My brother and I sat outside,

Sad,

Scared,

And hungry.

Come to think of it,

I also felt depressed because my mom never had enough money to pay the rent.

We would always get evicted.

They would get kicked out of their apartment.

Because she couldn't afford the rent.

Having to move from place to place every few months.

It made me feel helpless and scared because I would never know what was going to happen next in my life.

There was the food situation.

I was always desperate for something to eat because there wasn't any money to spend on food.

And on some days I was so hungry that my stomach would hurt and it felt very painful.

Now that I think about it,

Yes,

I do have some really good reasons for feeling depressed.

Nobody had ever bothered to talk to him about it before.

He had been in so many treatment centers,

But everyone was just like,

Depressed!

Take this medicine!

And honestly,

I don't think he would have talked about it to me either,

Unless we wrote his story like this.

Because they're afraid of therapists.

They think the therapist is going to criticize them.

Not really try to understand them and try to tell them what to do.

This story format was very powerful to pull all this out.

So in the group we said,

We asked all the other kids in the group,

Can you think of a time when you did some unhealthy or risky behavior to run away from your feelings of depression?

And of course,

A lot of the kids shared what they did.

They also did things,

They all were feeling depressed,

You know?

Let me think about my loneliness.

Now why oh why was that lonely feeling so painful for me that it made me do something so risky as to run away from home?

When I was a little kid,

My mother used to be at work on the night shift.

And my father was out getting drunk.

So I was left at home alone.

I felt neglected because I had no food.

And I was too young to know how to cook.

Also,

I didn't have covers on my bed,

And I used to shiver each night as I tried to fall asleep.

I felt very hurt because my father cared more about drinking than me.

And I felt rejected.

Where did that feeling come from though?

That was triggering me to run so far and so fast.

Well,

Now that I think about it.

.

.

Throughout my elementary years,

None of the other kids liked me.

Because I used to wear dirty clothes that stunk.

My mom did not wash my clothes,

And I was too young to know how.

So I would wear the same dirty clothes every single day to school.

My clothes smelled so badly that the other kids would not sit near me.

And sometimes I would do my bad habit of picking my nose,

And the kids would tell me that I was disgusting.

I felt rejected,

Embarrassed,

And like an outcast.

I felt like I had no one to talk to about my problems,

Since my parents weren't around very much.

It was very late that night,

And Freedom was too tired to think much longer,

So he made a promise to himself.

He promised that he would learn how to manage his feelings.

So they don't manage him any longer.

And when he was fast asleep,

His teacher Babaji came to him in a dream saying,

Listen dear freedom,

If you can conquer your mind,

You will have true freedom.

Your mind will become your best friend.

If you fail to conquer your mind,

It will remain your greatest enemy.

Some people do not realize that they can control their mind and that they can take responsibility for their thoughts.

Most people feel like a victim of their mind,

Hopelessly getting swept along by a constant flow of thoughts.

They cannot imagine that the mind can be peaceful,

But it can.

Go forth and control your mind.

You can do it Freedom!

So then we asked,

Okay,

Freedom,

I mean,

How do you think Freedom can control his mind?

We asked the kids.

And if you could give Freedom one bit of advice that might make him think twice about running away from home in the future,

What would it be?

It was so sweet to hear the kids all advising him.

They were so loving to him,

Very loving.

Oh no,

The printer didn't give me the last page.

Oh,

I just had it printed here locally.

I'm so sorry you guys,

He didn't give me the last page of the story.

Send a cliffhanger.

Okay.

I will read it,

I will get it next week.

That's the best I can say for now.

I don't mean to leave you in a cliffhanger.

I'm just going to look and see if there's any chance he put it in the back of one of the.

.

.

Oh,

Maybe he put it here.

No.

All right,

Hang tight.

Next week,

We're going to come back to that.

I have it electronically,

But I don't have my laptop here.

So OK,

Next week I'll read.

I think there's like one or two more pages.

We're almost at the end.

So I can switch to the book.

But before I do that,

What do you guys think so far of that?

That story.

Can you see the power of storytelling?

It's so powerful.

Really,

I mean this kid,

You guys was completely like.

.

.

I mean,

I was going to wait and tell you the,

I'm not going to tell you the punchline,

But I'll just tell you how he appeared.

Like,

I don't know if hearing his story,

You might have a visual of how he was.

Like when I hear stories,

I get like visuals in my head.

But I'll just describe how he was when I met him,

When I went to go meet him.

He was sitting on what's called the stingray unit,

Which is the teenage boys.

And that was the worst unit because they were big.

And strong and angry.

I didn't want any kids on that unit.

So when I saw I got a stingray kid,

I'm like,

Oh god.

And so I got there and he was.

.

.

Kind of like this.

And he had done bowel movements on himself.

He had sitting in his own poop.

That's Hymen.

You could smell him before you saw him.

So he's not any good.

That's why I'm saying,

To get this story out of that kid who was basically almost nonverbal.

Is very,

Very powerful.

He wasn't just a normal kid.

It took a lot to milk that out of him over many sessions and to actually get his true story because he wasn't even really talking.

When I met him,

You know?

I don't want to ruin the end of the story,

But this is a true,

True success story.

When you hear the punchline of what was under the root of what I've already read you,

There's another layer.

And it was very powerful.

And once we figured that out and we got him the right treatment,

He was.

.

.

Like a normal kid actually.

It was very sweet.

But,

That's what I'm saying,

You know,

If I had never read the Hetopadesh and made those into worksheets and understand the power of it,

I would never have thought to do that with him.

To tell his story and pick an animal and let's talk about the animal characteristics and all that,

You know?

Would their problem be less?

What's the problem?

What does it say?

It's okay?

Okay.

So anybody want to share what you thought or felt or anything when you were hearing his story?

I felt like.

.

.

Sadness because to see how parents can damage the life of their own children and so much cruelty and the damage is so deep.

And just neglecting the child is like half-killing,

Basically,

Emotionally,

Personally.

So this is very sad to see.

Can you speak so everybody can hear you?

Can turn this situation in a positive way.

You see,

They just want it.

They open up,

And they can get out of this.

Suffering,

Basically.

There is not one kid I met who was stupid.

They just have been neglected.

It's not like they're stupid and that's why they're in that situation.

It's like,

You know,

They just need somebody to pay attention and to hear their story.

And then,

I mean,

To have Babaji's,

To have him say that,

Do you know what I mean?

It was like so clear,

Like,

Let's weigh out the pros and the cons.

Let's look at the advantages and disadvantages.

It's like,

Oh,

I mean,

This guy,

This kid basically didn't have a father figure.

So to have Babaji come in and be so clear You know,

And that's so loving for a kid to have that.

And how they respond so.

.

.

How they respond.

He's like,

OK,

Here's the pros and cons,

You know.

Yeah.

It's very sweet.

Very amazing.

Yeah.

Very inspiring.

Turnaround.

It's a big turnaround.

He's one of the biggest success stories.

His story.

That's why I want to read the end.

I'm like,

OK.

Anything else?

Anybody want to share anything else?

Nyantree.

Hearing this story I felt very compassionate when you were describing like how was the situation He was not getting attention from his parents.

Excuse me,

Can you please not talk?

I can't hear.

Pancha Pankaj.

Not while we're,

I can't hear.

I didn't hear what you said,

I'm sorry.

I felt very compassionate.

When he was described like you were describing the parts of his story like how his mother was not present and how his father was not present and it was like I find it It is normal like if the person would get this kind of treatment.

It's obvious that the result will come something like this and on top of that the success of the story,

I really liked that.

That even going through so much he could be very clear and telling like he could tell that how what were the instance which has made him feel the different different ways like he didn't get the that's so terrible that they are fighting on the birthday and then he cannot get the cake.

That's so sad,

And he was so hungry and he was so cold.

But the thing is that every time you get a patient assigned to you as a therapist at this hospital,

They literally give you a pile this big.

It's over a hundred pages of all the things therapists they've been to,

The hospitals,

The treatment centers,

It's a long history.

And there's nothing in there that mentions any of this.

Do you know what I mean?

So nobody actually just bothered to say,

What were you feeling?

And tell me more about that depressed feeling.

Why do you think you're feeling depressed?

Like to just sit and try to understand the story.

So it's not that he didn't have the story in him.

It's that somebody had to care enough to ask.

And to really be curious and to not try to make him all better or give him some lecture,

Which is what therapists oftentimes do.

They're not trying to.

They're being well-wishing,

But it's not effective.

And parents do it too.

They just lecture,

And they say,

You know,

Out of fear probably,

But that's not effective,

You know?

So this is,

That's why storytelling is so powerful,

Because you're just trying to get their story,

And they actually can heal themselves.

If you know the right questions to ask,

They can start getting insights and saying,

Oh yeah,

That probably wasn't a good idea,

You know?

But you have to be patient.

It can take a long time.

Because it's not,

Like I said,

It's not that we had one talk and then all this came out.

He was like,

You know,

He was having some serious mental problems,

So it took a while for us to get everything out.

But he got more and more focused each meeting because he realized somebody actually cared.

Somebody actually wanted to hear it,

So then he started.

Being more grounded and more focused because he was.

He had a new experience of somebody who cared to listen.

Anything else?

Did you do enough?

I'm going to say something a bit louder now.

Someone online?

Okay,

Who?

You can't see it.

We have Bedi.

Would you like to say something?

Yes.

Okay.

Hare Krishna.

Uh.

.

.

I feel.

.

.

Very strong settlement.

But I can relate to the story.

I'm.

.

.

I ran away from home when I was 17.

Oh,

Wow.

So yeah,

It was a very difficult situation.

I'm 50 now.

But still Listen to the sets.

It's not easy.

I kind of understand what does it mean.

The growth level of the father.

And even though.

.

.

I'm almost 50,

Are you still on?

I even had a thought,

Which is better?

32.

You see?

I'm still trying to figure out or just.

.

.

Drone completely.

When you're a kid.

And receiver mode.

Because at least I can say from my perspective,

I still struggle with this.

I was praised by three ladies.

Which had quite serious problems.

Um.

.

.

It's not that my life is tragic,

But.

.

.

Uh.

.

.

It's not easy.

It's not easy.

I have family.

I have a wife and a daughter.

But being a man raised without a father is.

.

.

It's a bigger challenge that.

.

.

Yeah.

It's very victorious.

Yeah.

Thank you for sharing.

It's not easy hearing these stories because they can remind us of our childhood,

If something like this happened to us,

You know?

It can be very surprising.

You're just sitting here relaxing,

Hearing a book club,

And all of a sudden you're like,

Whoa,

That hit me right here,

You know?

And also,

You know,

No matter the age of your body,

You know,

My body's 52,

Your body's about to be 50.

No matter the age of our body,

The samskara,

Meaning the experience that we had,

And I mean by samskara,

What I'm talking about is the traumatic experience we had.

That age doesn't change.

So just say like this boy,

You know,

He was six,

I think,

On the birthday party,

Right?

So then now he's 14.

But when he has that traumatic memory,

The emotions and everything is back at age six.

You know,

So that's why sometimes we're like,

I can't believe it,

I'm 52 years old,

I should be over this by now.

How could it be that you're over it?

The only thing that's changed is your body.

Your mind,

Your subtle body,

Those samskaras,

Actually have gotten stronger,

Most likely,

Over the years.

Because if you don't clear them,

You reinforce them by acting on them in ways to protect yourself from not feeling those again.

So it's a little bit tricky,

At least from the Vedic psychology point of view,

To think,

Oh yeah,

You know,

It's been so long since that happened,

I should be over it by now.

That's not how it works actually.

You usually get worse over time,

Unless you work very deeply with the therapist,

Usually is what is required to uproot it and digest it.

What?

So that's why it can be very triggering hearing a similar story that matches with your experience.

Can you read the other person's name?

I can't.

Okay,

John,

Over.

Yes,

Jessica,

Thank you for this very heart-touching interview.

Sad story and I was just wondering if you were able to read it to the parents?

We did.

Yes,

That's a good question.

A lot of healing came from that.

The father was crying.

We read it in therapy with the mother and father.

They came in.

The father was remarried at that time,

So him and his wife,

The stepmother of this boy,

They came because it was required for them to come to therapy regularly,

Family therapy as well,

If they had parents,

And so they came.

And we read it to the parents.

The father was in tears,

He had no idea.

It was very,

Very healing.

And their relationship got so much better after that.

I haven't got to the last page of the punchline.

I'm trying not to spill the beans,

But yes.

That's a good question,

Jennifer.

It depends on the parents how open they might be to hearing it,

You know?

But he felt quite eager to do that.

He really wanted to do it.

So I said,

Let's do it.

We did it.

And they kept it.

Yeah,

They asked for a copy.

Can we please keep it?

And when he was discharged,

They kept that.

And the father wrote to me many times after he was discharged,

The son was discharged,

Telling me how he's doing and how this changed his life.

Very,

Very powerful.

Good questions.

Anything else?

Yeah,

Sorry.

In the back of my mind,

I've been thinking about,

What would my character be in the story?

What would my title be?

I wonder if anybody's been thinking about it too.

Yeah,

It's good.

If you have a story to tell,

It's really good because this is already the format.

You can think like,

Okay,

What animal would I be?

But first of all,

What's my story?

Like the third story is about,

It's Smiles the Cutting Cat.

If you think of how weird that title is,

Right?

If a cat is cutting,

She picked that she wants to be a cat.

I'm like,

Why a cat?

Because the cat has these sharp nails and she's cutting herself with razor blades.

So the sharp nails of the cat was kind of a good analogy to that.

But then I'm like,

Why are you calling it Smiles?

Because I'm like,

What's the name of the.

.

.

First,

It's like,

Pick the animal and then explain why,

You know?

And then the second thing is,

What would you name it?

You know,

Freedom the Runaway Cheetah makes sense.

But smiles,

The cutting cat,

I'm like,

Why would the cat be smiling?

And that's part of the story,

You know?

So it's very,

Very interesting,

Yes.

So that's a powerful way,

If you are in therapy,

To do that with your therapist,

To ask your therapist,

If you like this approach,

Can I write my story with an animal?

And if you're my client already,

I can pull it out of you and we can write a nice story for you too and then we can read it to your family or your friends or whoever you would like to hear it,

Who you think is open to that.

Anyone else?

I have another point which was touching to me when the boy came back at home and the father hugged him and I mean it looks like that it was a good result because he connected with the boy and so I was touched by that because the father was so worried and sometimes we realize things the value of the things when we don't have it so then I got this I wished that this could happen also to me somehow in that way.

But it didn't happen to me.

I think it was very touching,

But the part of the story I didn't write in there was that I think he had run away 14 times.

He was all over the news many times.

He was very famous for where he lived.

Because that's how he got the father's love.

So he did it so many times,

You know.

By the time he came here,

He was in a lockdown unit because he was deemed unsafe,

Unfit to be in society.

Every kid there,

That's how they qualify to get in.

They were unsafe to themselves or a danger to themselves.

For like life or death,

Or to another person,

Or both.

So it's.

.

.

I wrote some of these parts much more lightly because I don't want to make him feel shame,

Like you've done this 14 times,

What the hell's wrong with you?

So I was more like.

.

.

Okay,

Like you run away and you got the hug from your dad,

You know,

Great.

But in my mind I'm thinking.

.

.

And also kids.

Obviously that's why he was,

Well,

A big part of it was he was feeling neglected,

He was feeling unloved,

So then he could do that.

He'd have to take it to that extreme,

Whereas like the girl who wrote Smiles at the Cutting Cat,

She had to cut herself to get love.

So it's like these very negative coping mechanisms.

To get love.

And the dad wasn't catching on either.

I mean,

How many more times is your kid going to run away?

And the dad was out drunk.

So that's not going to really change the bad drinking.

That's one of the problems when you have an addict in the family,

An alcoholic or a drug addict,

You know.

You think that if you do X,

Y,

Or Z,

You're going to get them to change.

You're going to get them to stop and finally pay attention to you.

I mean,

They might for five minutes.

It's a bigger issue than that,

You know?

Anything else?

Okay,

Let's get back to the main attraction.

So now you know when I'm talking about the kids at the hospital and their stories,

You have a lot more understanding of what I'm talking about,

Right?

Okay,

So we talked about Mary,

So I'm on page 122.

And right above the gold letters,

I said,

Over time,

As we read more of the Hittipadesh tales,

One after the other,

The kids started opening up and telling their own stories.

Terribly horrifying true life stories.

Most of them had experienced a close encounter with a tiger or two in their life.

Remember,

I told you guys this story a little bit,

But I'll just.

.

.

I'll say it one more time because it's funny.

One tall,

Dark,

And handsome 15-year-old boy put his own twist on it one day when he admitted to the whole group that he himself was the tiger.

We were like shocked,

You know.

I'm thinking,

Oh,

My poor little,

You know,

These kids are all underage and they've had tigers in their lives.

And this boy's like,

Wait up.

He was like so proud.

He's like,

I'm the tiger.

What do you mean?

And I'm like,

Why is he admitting this,

You know?

He's like,

He was so proud he was the tiger.

And I'll never forget,

He was dressed,

He had like He looked very cool.

He had a really cool outfit on,

Very expensive.

I forgot the brand,

But he looked very trendy for a teenage boy with his hair slicked back and some gold chain.

He just looked very.

.

.

And he's like,

I'm the Thai guy.

And I'm like,

Oh my God.

And he said,

Yep,

I'm the tiger and I trick people.

And then he said that,

Yeah,

He tricked girls.

He even went so far as to reveal what trick he would do to get them to be his girlfriend.

He said he would tell them that they're so beautiful and that he loved them.

And when he really didn't actually believe or feel those things.

I mean,

I know a lot of guys do that,

But he's admitting it in the group.

And the worst part was,

He didn't seem to mind that two of his girlfriends,

Who he had done that trick to,

Were there.

They were sitting like right next to me.

Okay,

They're in the group and they became very upset with him,

You know,

Because they thought they were still like,

First of all,

They didn't know about each other.

And second of all,

They didn't know that he did that trick on them,

You know?

So they became upset not only because he was a liar,

But because they realized he was dating both of them at the same time.

Suffice to say that the honesty,

Innocence,

Vulnerability,

Raw pain,

Support and compassion that this young group of mentally ill teenagers exhibited was truly remarkable.

Impressed by the results,

I emailed Babaji and I explained what had transpired in the group sessions.

I knew the story worked because these profound results did not only happen in the therapy groups that I was running.

I had shared the Hitopadesh worksheets with a few of my therapist friends.

Including my boss,

And they all had experienced similar powerful results with their patients.

That was shocking,

Actually.

Because they're like,

What are you doing with your kids?

Why are they behaving themselves in the groups?

And they're talking about it to the other kids,

And the other kids are asking,

Can we talk about the tiger in our group?

So I gave a few worksheets,

Just a few,

There's like 13 of us,

But just a couple that I was friendly with.

And they started telling me stories.

That's how their kids started opening up.

So then you see it actually wasn't the therapist,

It was the actual Hittipudas stories.

That was the key to unlocking these kids' hearts.

I knew it worked,

But I wanted to know why.

I asked Babaji how a simple story could get these kids to open their hearts and reveal so much.

How is it possible that these very kids,

Who were deemed to be deemed by a multitude of interdisciplinary professionals,

That means psychiatrists,

The MD doctor,

The therapist,

Any person you can think of,

Behavioral therapist,

The school teacher,

Any professional that a kid would have,

They all said,

That they're unfit to be in society.

They've been kicked out of school.

They've been kicked out of their home.

They've been kicked out of even doctor's offices for such horrible behavior,

You know?

So these were the kids.

That the Hittukudesh stories were working for.

They were functioning so well in this group.

These very same kids were the ones who had created a whole personality to hide their secrets and pain.

And most therapists could not penetrate the bulletproof vests surrounding their hearts.

So why would some short story about an animal be the magic key to their hearts?

Babaji explained that in the Indian culture,

The timeless tradition of teaching is done through storytelling.

People love stories.

They have a genuine curiosity about other people,

Especially stories about someone in a predicament that they can relate to.

Babaji said that if you tell a person directly what they should or should not do,

They don't like it.

Would you agree?

Have you experienced when someone tells you what to do?

You like that?

And what not to do.

So.

We don't like that.

He explained,

Nobody,

In fact,

Likes to be told what to do.

Our ego tells us that we think we know best.

Our ego abhors taking instructions from others.

Even when we seek advice.

Often times we doubt it.

Or we do not take the advice seriously,

Even if it's from a qualified source.

Like a psychotherapist or a parent or a guru.

In contrast,

When people hear stories,

They let their guard down.

They are not on the defensive because no one is criticizing them.

Nobody is judging them or telling them what to do or what is wrong with them.

Their ego doesn't feel threatened or minimized.

When their guard is let down,

They feel relaxed.

When they are not on the defensive,

They can think clearly,

Which enables them to relate to one of the characters in the story.

In Sanskrit,

There's a technical word for it.

Now this is going to be a tongue twister.

Babaji said.

.

.

Sadarami karamnam.

Is that right,

V-Less?

Which literally means generalization.

This concept of generalizing the point to avoid offending the ego has been used by wise teachers in India for hundreds of years.

When the ego is relaxed,

People generate their own insights because they feel safe and secure.

So they share from their heart.

I then realized that this is the sweet spot for tremendous healing to occur.

Babaji's impressive explanation inspired me to share these Hathapadesh stories with more kids and families.

Over the next few years,

Babaji and I began working together to educate kids,

Families,

Psychotherapists and teachers,

Both in India and in the USA.

We started doing trainings in the Hidupadesh.

For teachers and for kids,

For therapists.

Of course,

The story would not be complete unless it came full circle.

By me applying these powerful Hithabodha stories to my own life.

I guess I didn't see it at first,

Partly because I was focused on teaching these stories to my patients,

And partly because,

As Babaji explained,

It's very difficult to see one's own self.

Especially one's weaknesses.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that it was not my idea to apply the Hiddebedesh story.

To my life.

The thought didn't even actually cross my mind.

But Babaji had a different plan.

He blasted right through my dull head with a pointed question.

Sharper than the tip of a tack.

So,

Who are the tigers in your life?

No!

His question caught me off guard,

Actually.

I thought I was too smart for any tigers to trick me.

I really did.

And I proudly told him so.

He grinned and said,

Think again.

I didn't have a response at that time,

But over the next few days,

As I let Babaji's piercing questions sink in deeper,

I realized that there had been quite a few tigers in my life.

And so I started journaling about them.

For each story I put on the paper.

Three more stories followed.

It was quite shocking actually to see how many tigers I had gotten entangled with over the years.

He might even call me a tiger magnet.

Eventually.

I responded to Babaji,

Thanking him for encouraging me to think more deeply about the tigers in my life.

As usual,

He was right.

The tigers in my life.

Had been in the form of bad boyfriends who had tricked me time and time again,

Just like that teenage boy.

I mean,

He just told what they all do,

You know?

I was in it for love,

And they were in it for something other than that,

To put it mildly.

Through Babaji's teachings,

I finally understood how my own neediness and craving for love had made me vulnerable to relationships in which I would get manipulated.

My desperation to feel loved blinded me to all the tiger's tricks.

And my blindness caused me to say yes when I meant no.

To suffer and tolerate abuse.

Just to avoid feeling lonely.

To accept what I should have rejected.

To stay when I should have gone.

And to sacrifice myself,

My needs,

My past.

My voice,

My interests,

And my health.

All to just avoid upsetting another.

Babaji's words of wisdom taught me not only how to spot and outsmart a tiger,

But also how to come home to myself.

He taught me how to respect myself,

Honoring my needs.

Morals and values.

So not only did my patients benefit from the assisted pedestrian stories,

But I did as well,

Healing my own personal tiger scratches and deeper puncture wounds.

You know what a puncture wound is?

When they bite you with their teeth.

It's called a puncture wound.

When you get bitten by an animal with their teeth,

You know?

A scratch is one thing,

But when they puncture.

.

.

Yeah,

I had some puncture wounds by these tigers in my life.

Some deeper,

More things to heal.

So my reflection is that even though by Babaji's grace I got the lesson,

I still wonder.

.

.

What it would have been like for me if when he asked me who the tigers were in my life,

If I'd had a different response.

I wonder what it would have been like to realize in that moment.

That he would not have asked me that question unless he already knew that there are tigers in my life that I was not aware of.

Perhaps if I was humble enough to admit that I was naive and that tigers were running.

And ruining my life,

Babaji would have helped me to introspect even further.

But because I was resistant to his question,

Trying to convince him that I didn't have any tigers in my life.

I did not squeeze all the juice out of the grape.

As my dad used to say.

Sure,

I eventually came around and shared with Babaji my insights.

But perhaps if I had been smart enough to understand the subtle ways of my guru in that very moment,

I could have learned much more from this wise man.

I wonder how many of his precious lessons have been lost on me.

When I've been too proud and defensive to let them penetrate my thick skull.

Now by reflecting upon my own example of pride,

I can understand better why there's such a need for teaching people using stories instead of telling them directly.

My lesson learned is that using ancient Hindu scriptural stories as a tool for introspection.

Can produce profound insights.

Anybody want to share anything?

We're halfway through,

I think.

We've read six chapters and there's eleven.

We've got five more chapters to go.

Anyone want to share anything on the end of this one?

All right,

All right.

That's.

.

.

The coke and the pizza in the Tiger and Traveler story.

So I was wondering what they are symbolizing,

And I think just now you gave the answer.

This is this desire and neediness to be loved,

To be seen,

To get attention,

The things we did not get from our parents.

Would you agree to that?

That's not what we are meaning.

It shows greed.

When you have hunger,

You have a greed for something you can't see clearly.

Imagine that traveler was full.

And then the tiger's like,

Here,

Let me give you the gold bracelet.

Why would he need the gold bracelet?

He was very hungry.

So he was dreaming about the pizza and the Coke.

Cause he was hungry.

When you have hunger for something,

Whether it's love or food.

Then you are blinded by your attachment to that,

To getting that thing.

Does it make sense?

It was a more basic primal survival thing for the tiger because he was poor and he was lost and he was hungry.

So he was just like.

.

.

If i get that gold bracelet i can like have pizza and french fries and coke and he was just really just imagining that.

And so that's why he made the decision finally to do it.

Combined with the tiger saying all these.

Other things to make him seem like a good person.

But imagine if he wasn't,

I think in there in that chapter two is like desire is the I forgot,

There's some line about if you have a desire,

That's what makes you basically stupid.

Makes you make bad decisions.

So before you make a decision,

You should always be thinking,

What is in this for me?

Why am I doing this?

Is this the best way to get food?

To take a gold bracelet from a tiger?

Probably there's another way,

Even if you have to eat a few leaves or berries.

But we don't think that way in the moment when we're hungry.

We go for the wrong thing and then that's when we make bad decisions.

It's not making a Sattvic grounded good decision,

Thinking the pros and the cons or anything.

So it's not only,

Let's say,

About this hunger for the missing love,

But it can also be other greedy things,

Like,

I mean,

We have desires for,

Let's say,

Name and fame,

For example,

Or this type of thing.

Yes,

It depends on the person,

But the core of it,

We could call that category desire.

And then depending,

But as long as you understand its desire,

Then it doesn't really matter because that's the core message to get.

That our desire blinds us.

And then we make those decisions where we can get eaten.

That's what you can take and apply to any situation,

You know.

That's why Babaji wouldn't let me get off the hook.

He was like,

Who are the tigers in your life?

And then I saw by my desire for love and to not be lonely,

I just made a bunch of stupid mistakes again and again and again.

That's actually what the next book is that we're writing.

I hope I can.

Just that concept.

Soon to an ashram near you.

Thank you,

Malika.

Good question.

Nyah-yen-swee I realized last time.

When you were reading the story from the tiger and the traveler.

In that moment,

I was trying to think that who could be Track Tiger in my life.

And I could find one and then.

Lately.

.

.

I like somebody told me that that,

What about this,

The recent example,

And I was actually amazed to see that even if I have knowledge,

Like you taught how can there be tigers,

You could be,

You cannot see them,

Like I couldn't see them,

Like if this person would not have said that this has,

Actually this has been a tiger,

That's a tiger,

So I think what I thought that why couldn't I do that because maybe I am immune to be abused maybe I'm not sure but I was actually surprised that why can't I get this?

Why can't I see this?

This person is tiger in my life.

This was the very.

.

.

Fresh.

Insight,

Yeah,

It's a big one.

So most likely it's because you had a tiger in your childhood and that was your comfort zone.

So then you're going to gravitate towards those people,

Actually,

And you're going to think they're nice.

You're going to want to pet the tiger and be like,

Oh kitty.

So then I think my take away should be that.

.

.

We really need a person who can help us,

Like a therapist.

I mean even me,

I wrote stories,

I taught kids for over a year and then Babaji's like,

Who's the tiger in your life?

I'm like,

What?

I was like meditating on the story for a year,

And I didn't see it in my own.

.

.

And I'm a therapist,

You know,

I'm supposed to be good at that.

It's very hard to see it in your own life,

In your own story,

And so you can get like very lopsided because you can be so confident and be teaching others,

But if you haven't realized it in your life yourself,

That's not good,

You know?

That's why you really need a guru to point it out.

Good and safe.

Okay,

Thank you guys very much for being here.

And I'll see you next week,

Hardy Bo.