by Aiko Ota
In this episode, I speak with Syama about the seventeenth chapter of the Bhagavad Gita. This chapter is called “The Yoga of Discerning Threefold Faith”. This threefold faith refers to faith that is not illuminated by wisdom coming from outside of the three modes of nature: sativa, rajas, and tamas.
Transcript
Hello Yogi! Welcome to my podcast. I'm Aiko and on this show we explore ways to put spiritual theory into sustainable practice. And here we are again. Welcome, Ciao! Thank you! So today we are speaking about Chapter 17 of the Bhagavad Gita, Which is the penultimate chapter of the entire book. So it's very exciting. Yes, We are getting very near the end here. Yeah, So how it's called, This chapter? The chapter is called Shradhatraya Vibhaga Yoga or the Yoga of Discerning Three-Fold Faith. Very interesting title for the chapter. But maybe before that, Would you like to summarize a little bit what we said last time for chapter 16? Yes, So the previous chapter was about kind of spiritual people and non-spiritual people. I mean, We should be very careful in making distinctions like that, Because of course everything is like all people are spiritual. I mean, Everyone is a soul. But the distinction is between someone who is paying attention to their spiritual nature versus those who do not. And also this here we should not divide into good and bad, Like, Because if I would be proud, Because I am paying attention to my spiritual nature, That is kind of against my spiritual nature. Whereas someone may simply not be aware, But they are humble, So who is in the best position, You know? But then of course, The importance is not so much to make us against them or anything like that. It's more about in oneself to differentiate between when we pay attention and when we do not pay attention, With the, Of course, The natural goal to pay more attention. Yeah, Become aware of when we are slipping out of that. Get back in. So now, What is happening now in this chapter between Arjuna and Krishna? Yeah, So since the previous chapter ended with the teaching that kind of the main difference between this paying attention and not paying attention has to do with paying attention to revelation, Like remembering the words of the revelation, Which we call a Shastra in Hinduism or in other, Like, Like often it's called scripture. And it's like, There's a basic, Like, It's not about like remembering dogmas, But the thing is that there are things we cannot know, Grasp with our intellect, Things that are not, As our teacher says, Not irrational, But beyond rationality. And those are things we can simply pray and we will, We will hope that we will find an answer somehow, That it will be inspired. So there's a whole tradition of that, Of prayer and inspiration. And like over centuries that forms like into a tradition and it is recorded in what is called Shastra or scripture, Where you can see the same, The same principle arising again and again, And also throughout different cultures. Like if you look at the heart of the Bible, At the heart of the Quran, At the heart of the Hindu scriptures, You will see similar teachings. And this is when, When people pray and they get, They get help from above, You can kind of detect that same voice from above in different cultures and also in the same culture over and over again. And this forms this, This culture of seeking help from, From beyond our own capacity to solve, To solve the main problem of life, Which is our identification with matter. So Arjuna is asking Krishna at the beginning of this chapter, What about those who are, Who don't pay attention to, To revelation, To scripture, But they are still kind of faithful there. They are worshiping something. Then Krishna says that faith will be according to the gunas in that case, Because if you turn, Turn to scripture, Then you are turning beyond the gunas. And our listeners may remember we have been discussing the gunas in a, In a few chapters and it's the, The qualities that make up the fabric of nature. So scripture is, Is wisdom coming from beyond the gunas. So if you are practicing some, Some form of spirituality that is not turning to that side, Then your practice is going to be within those gunas. So, So Krishna will explain this and, And according to what guna is, Is dominant, Your, Your faith and worship will be according to that. So we have then, For example, Sattvic faith, Rajasic faith and tamasic faith. So in sattvic faith, You worship the kind of the archetypal gods, Like the sun god, The moon god, The wind god. In rajasic faith, You may be kind of worshiping demoniac forces. And in tamasic faith, You may be worshiping ghosts, And like spirits and things like this. That is how he, How he described how it, How it, How it can take shape. And of course, Like, This is also not to make like blanket statements, Like, One can, For example, Have powerful impressions from previous lives of having followed shastra, And then take maybe take birth in a family where there is some kind of spirit worship and you and you just let it take that form, But you're actually doing it in a pure way. So it's like, There's never a way to kind of judge. Like these things are always for our own introspection, And never to create any kind of us against them ideas. So is there all chapter about these three type of faiths? No, Actually not. The chapter is named after that. Most likely because it's maybe the most important part, But then Krishna goes into other areas of looking at things in relation to these, The three categories of the, Of the gunas. And those things are food. So we began with faith and then food. So faith and food. And then three things that Krishna says one should never give up. All human beings should engage in these three things. And that is tapa, Dana, And yajna. And which means austerity, Charity, And sacrifice. And I guess one can say, Say these things in different orders. Let's say, Maybe to make it more helpful to understand the concept. Let's begin with dana, Then tapa, Then yajna. But first, Let's get back to food because the food came before those three. And this we have actually already brought up in a previous episode, But we can just recap it quickly again. Food in the three gunas of nature. So sattvic food is food that is sweet and fat, But not excessively. So it doesn't mean like French fries and a soda. But it means, For example, An avocado is both sweet and fat. Yeah. And it's, Yeah, I was actually thinking of avocado. It's just the perfect image that comes to my mind when you try to think of a sattvic type of food. And Rajasic foods would be things like chile, Garlic, Like you said, Because it has like a sting, You know. And then tamasic foods is kind of old, Rotten food. Like a little too fermented food. So over now to these, The three things that humans should never give up. Very interesting idea. So dana, Tapa, And yajna. And one can try to think like, What is the difference between these? Because it seems like the two first ones sound very similar to the third one. So dana, Charity, Tapa, Austerity, And yajna, Sacrifice. Because like you can say, If you do dana, Charity, Then you're sacrificing something. And if you do tapa, It's kind of also austerity. That's kind of how we think of like, When you want to make a sacrifice, You're going to do some austerity, Like I'm going to work hard for this to achieve this, Like I'm going to sacrifice this and that to be able to achieve this. Yeah, So then we have sacrifice. But one way to think about it is that dana, Charity, Is to give. But giving may not, There doesn't have to be a pinch, Because you can give things that you simply don't need. Like you can just have so much that you don't even feel it when you give it. It's like, Kind of happy to just kind of get rid of it. And then you have austerity, Which is like doing something so that you feel a pinch. But you can do that without giving something to someone, You can do it totally for your own purposes. So then sacrifice seems to be what kind of, Like if you look at dana and tapa in the light of yagya, And at yagya in the light of tapa and dana, Then you can understand the meaning of both. So therefore it's important to have all these three in your life. That sacrifice is then when you give something and you feel a pinch. So Krishna goes through all three, According to the gunas of nature, These qualities of nature. We should define them again for those who may need a refresher. So sattva is balance, Goodness. Rajas is passion, And tama is ignorance. You can also order them in this way that it begins with raja, Passion, Like something grows, And then sattva is when it remains for some time, And then tamas is when it's destroyed at the end. So everything in nature goes through these three stages. They grow, Remain and dissolve. Like those are the qualities and they are reflected in everything, In all phenomena in nature, Both in our mind and in physical objects and also in relationships between people and between people and things and so on. So we're going to go through all three here and just kind of muse all these things. So the first, Let's take the first one, Dana. That is charity. So there is charity in goodness, Charity in passion and charity in ignorance. And I was just like trying to think of some like, Like charity in ignorance. You could like imagining, You could imagine someone giving in a very arrogant way. So like, Let's say you like just drank a bottle of soda or something in town that you bought. And then you see a homeless person. And you just throw the bottle at him, Or like throw the bottle on the ground like next to him and say, Like, You can take it out. Here you go. You can take this. So then you gave him something. It is actually of value, But you do it in a very disrespected, Like disrespectful way. And it is more to kind of show off your own superiority. Yeah, Something else that comes to my mind is, Like very rich people that have to keep their face and their reputation and they have a lot of money. So they kind of have to do some charity in order to appear nice, But they don't really care. It's just a part of money that they don't, They don't pay too much attention and they finally do it just for their appearance. Yeah, It's like an investment. That kind of goes into like a Rajasic. It's kind of like for power and for, Of course, It has this like, Nothing is pure in this world. There is nothing that's purely Rajasic or purely Tamasic or purely Sattvic. So here we can see like a mix of Tamasic and Rajasic. Because that can also, Of course, Be that you're actually very genuine and you really want to help and you're rich. And then like the Rajasic part there is that you may feel that you're actually going to change the world in this way. You are going to change the world by giving the money. And you feel like it's like the power is in your hands to kind of change the destiny of mankind. And so then like Sattvic charity and goodness would, For example, Be like, This is like an exercise. Like it's not in our hands what the outcome will be. But like, I'm doing this because it's the best I know. And hopefully it's going to be for the best. And even if it turns out bad in the end, Like I did it, Like hopefully at least some impression of goodness will be there. But like one thing like I wanted to, Because you said like the other day you were in town and someone approached you and asked you if you knew about the war in Ukraine. And you were like, Yes, But like my brother is a refugee. And like, Okay, So you know, Give some money for our cause here. Yeah, I felt like very not offended, But kind of I thought, Like, Can you be a little bit more empathetic? Yeah, Exactly. So like, There it seemed like a Rajasic charity. Like, It's like just, It's just like, Whatever, Like, By all means, Just like, Collect money for this, But like, Without really like, Kind of caring for the ones who are giving the money. Then the next one, Tapa. So austerity in, In goodness, Then like, We can think of setting aside time to like meditate, For example, Even if it's if it's difficult, And you do it like, Regularly with introspection, Then you can have austerity in, In the mode of passion, And then it's more like doing things that are difficult to attain your kind of some kind of superficial goal that you have. And then austerity in the in the mode of ignorance, In Tamaguna, Would then be things that actually are damaging to yourself. It could be like, Like fasting, For example, Like doing, Like a too hard diet that's actually damaging your body. For example, That would be austerity in Tamaguna. And of course, This is, Again, It has to be repeated over and over. It's not to judge, Like everything that is spoken in the Bhagavad Gita is spoken out of compassion. So if someone has a problem with this, There is no shame in seeking help for that. Then sacrifice. So that is to, To combine. The thing is, If you combine the two first ones properly, Like Dana and tapa, Then you will most likely have sacrifice in, In sattva guna, Sacrifice and goodness. But the ultimate sacrifice, According to Bhagavad Gita itself is japa. It means internal prayer. So it's, It's like working on your personal relationship with, With God internally, That is not a show to anyone externally. Yeah. So that is this chapter. Yeah. It leaves a lot to think about. Yes. And yeah, We can kind of analyze our life and how we deal with it. That's very nice. So I guess next is the last chapter. Do you want to give a few words about it? Yeah, Like it's going to come to the climax. Of course, Like this, The whole conversation has been to, To convince Arjuna to do the right thing. So we will see, Will Krishna be able to convince Arjuna? Yeah. And we will give a nice recap of the entire Bhagavad Gita. So definitely don't miss the next episode. Thank you, Sharman and Lai Gan. Thank you. See you next time. I hope this episode fulfilled its purpose of inspiring you. If you like it, Feel free to share it, Give a review or a rating, Subscribe. And if you have any question, Please get in touch at aigoo-ota. Com
