How To Remain Heart-Centered

How to Remain Heart-centered. Just like Covid, stress is a potential killer. Unlike Covid, however, there is no vaccination that can safeguard your body against the devastating immune system-suppressing effects of stress. But there are better, less invasive, and far more empowering innovations that can help you boost your health and well-being and reduce stress naturally while living more fully from your heart AND adding more heart to the world.

Transcript

Welcome to What is Going on? For new thought from the edge of OM. Each week on OM Times flagship radio show, Veteran broadcaster, Author and media consultant Sandy Sedgebeer conducts thought-provoking interviews with inspirational authors, Artists, Musicians, Scientists, Speakers and filmmakers who are working at the point where spirituality and science meet consciousness at the very edge of OM. Here is your host, Sandy Sedgebeer. Hello. If there's one term that we've heard more frequently over the past two years than the term Covid, It's the word stress, Which medicine has long known to be a primary factor in up to 90% of all diseases. Like Covid, Stress is a potential killer. Unlike Covid, However, There's no vaccination that can safeguard your body against the devastating immune system suppressing effects of stress. But there are better, Less invasive and far more empowering innovations that can help you boost your health and wellbeing and reduce stress naturally while living more fully from your heart. To tell us about these is Gavin Andrews, The managing director for HeartMath in the UK and Ireland. Gavin is the founder and co-founder of two exciting new initiatives. We Add Heart, Which is a growing international movement that's empowering people to connect with their heart and the hearts of others. And Syntropy States, An exciting new app that blends mesmerising art and music therapy with science to deliver the immune boosting benefits of breath work, Relaxation and meditation to safely and quickly reduce stress and pain, Improve cardio respiratory function, Aid sleep, Regulate your emotions and bring your body, Mind and spirit to a state of peaceful calm. Gavin Andrews, Welcome. Sandy thank you. What a wonderful introduction. Thank you so much. Well what a wonderful app. This um, Syn, Syn, Syntrany? Syn, Syn, Syntrophy? Syntrophy. You know what we, It's causing people some problems that word. Syntrophy, Yes. So tell me, What is this word? What does it mean? Well do you know what, I think the word Syntrophy is going to be popping up more and more for people and I think it's a really important word. I'm sure you and I'm sure most people have heard of entropy, Which is of course you know basically everything turning into chaos and dying and all of that type of thing. So Syntrophy is actually the opposite of entropy. So Syntrophy in simple terms is the emergence of order from chaos. It's actually the emergence of complexity and symmetry. So we've got Syntrophy all around us. You know the world is an example of Syntrophy. Animals are examples of Syntrophy. But we tend to focus on the entropy side. Syntrophy is a bit more interesting I think. So yeah it's about evolution towards kind of unity and wholeness. And it's actually also about retrocausality. So it's a bit of an inversion of the times arrow. So we think about the present being created from the past and cause and effect. But Syntrophy is all about actually the present being caused from the future, Retrocausality. So yeah the main takeaway really is it's order from chaos and that's what the app Syntrophy aims to do. And it does it really beautifully I have to say. I've been playing with it quite a bit. So really we're looking at you know semantics here. I mean you think about the word medicine and how more and more people are now talking about well-being rather than medicine because medicine has you know negative connotations. It's something you know it's a different state altogether. So entropy and Syntrophy. Yeah I get where you're going with this. It could well become a new word that people you know when you think about the energy of words, You know there's far more positive energy in Syntrophy than there is in entropy. For sure absolutely yeah. I mean the word's actually linked to coherence. So I know that you've interviewed Howard Martin before and people probably are aware of Hartman's work in coherence. So coherence if you like is part of that Syntrophy. It's about you know unifying and wholeness and yeah the sort of you know systems working together and entropy is the opposite of all that. Anything falling apart. Where did all of this start for you Gavin? I mean I know that you you work very very closely with Hartman. You're very interested in all of the things that we associate with Hartman. But where does this journey start for you? Yeah well the Syntrophy journey definitely is an outcome of everything that I've been doing with Hartman and everything I've learned from Hartman as well. So one of the things I'm really interested in is how we make coherence or just you know self-regulation, Stress management, How we make it really easy for people. And of course with Hartman we've got lovely techniques and we've got you know the biofeedback technology as well. But actually one of the problems with that I think is that if people don't really know it's there they can't go looking for it. And also the biofeedback technology for that it's wonderful, It's not inexpensive. So for many people it's actually you know unfortunately the price can be prohibitive. And so yeah I just I like thinking of different ways to help people find this stuff out really easily and practice it easily. And that's really where Syntrophy came from was just sort of this I was looking for something. And then around about in the mid of last year someone that I trained, A lady called Allie, She was an artist and I trained her because she was actually creating art using heart rate variability data, So using heart rhythms to create art. So that's how we met each other. I introduced her to the Hartman technology and she made this wonderful installation using the heart rhythm data. And one day she said to me, You know I've been thinking about making breath paces. And I said I've been thinking about breath paces as well. And she sent me a little short video and I thought oh my gosh that's just so beautiful. And then synchronicity at the same time a friend of mine Mark said, I'd just like to make music using binaural. Do you know anything about binaural? And I said well I don't really know anything about them. I've got some nice stuff but I don't know anything about them. But have you thought about making music that might create coherence? He said no, What's that? So we just kind of joined together and had a bit of a play. And actually Mark just had created a bit of music that he joined with Allie's video. And Sandy it just worked really, Really well. And I thought wow this is something special and I've not seen anything else like this out there. So I said to the guys okay let's play a bit more. And so we created a couple more videos. We shared them with some friends and family and everybody said these are lovely. They're fun and really relaxing. Makes the breath work really easy. They're beautiful to look at. It's just sort of effortless. And really that was just a sign from the universe I think that we should just do this properly. So we decided to create a startup. We're all doing this part time basically. We've all got other jobs. And from that point Mark and Allie started working together and creating really two products. One was the breath paces which create the coherence. So the art expands and contracts and the music works with the expansion and contraction as well. So they pace both visually and auditory, Voluntarily the breathing. So that's one product is the breath paces. And then the other is what we call just relaxation videos and they're just beautiful art in a mandala and abstracts that just evolve over four minutes, Five minutes or so. And you can just get lost in them. So yeah that's really where it came from. And we thought well these are lovely because they're just four or five minutes long. They're easy. You know people can download them to their computers and watch them. And that's when we decided well actually what people really want is apps because that's what everyone's using. So we basically spent the last year in our spare time creating more and more content and then getting the app developed and launched as well. So yeah that's the story. It was just one of those things that popped up. We followed our hearts and lots of synchronicities occurred and here we are. We launched the app actually last week and it's available now. But you have eight second, Ten second, Twelve second as an option. What is the difference between those? What difference to the body does it make? Well actually the three options of the breath cycles are to help people work in a way that works for them. Well actually in simple terms the eight second cycle which is a four second in, Four second out breath, That actually works better for kids because they need to breathe a little bit faster. So the eight second works for kids. It also works for people who want to do box breathing which is traditionally a four second in breath and a four second hold, Four second out breath, Four second hold. So it plays to that as well. And then there are some people who have got breathing problems, COPD or asthma maybe or people who have been used to breathing very rapidly and shallowly and actually trying to force people to breathe too slowly can cause anxiety. So that shorter cycle is also available for them to begin their practice. The ten second cycle is the sort of traditional coherence or something called resonance breathing pace. So for most people that ten second cycle will enable them to hit their sort of optimal state if you like. That's really the easiest way to think of coherence. It's just an optimal psychological and physiological state. So most people we suggest go for the ten seconds. And then the twelve seconds, We're all a bit different. Some people actually get a bit more coherent with the twelve second cycle, Six in, Six out. And some people who are adept at breath work or they're very, Very fit or they're into yoga, They actually prefer slightly slower pace as well. So that's what we wanted to do is to specifically design the visuals and the music to operate around each of those speeds. And actually with the music, They are three separate pieces of music adapted to those cycles. So really, Yeah, It's just about making sure that it's tailored for the individual and they can get the most enjoyment out of those different paces. But it's, I mean, It's more than meditation and breath work because you've got, You know, More subtly, You've got art therapy in there and you've got sacred geometry and you've got music therapy. Tell me about the sacred geometry because it's wonderful, You know, To see the Merkabah or the icosahedron, The dodecahedron, The octahedron. And I mean, There are many, Many people who work with the flower of life work who are very much into sacred geometry. Well you kind of put me on the spot there because I'm no expert in it actually. Ali who creates the art, She's the one who decided to come up with that for our first series. She's very much into the sacred geometries. As an artist, She creates intuitively, You know, She gets herself into that space where, You know, She's at one with the universe or, You know, She's downloading or she's connected to the field, Whatever you want to call it. She's in that, You know, The flow state in zone. And so she would set the intention of the geometry and then from that place, The creativity and the design would flow. So with the breath paces in the current series, They're operating off in effect like a geometry that then evolves and expands and becomes something even more complex and beautiful. You know, Like the centripet, It becomes more complex, More beautiful, More symmetrical. With the relaxation videos, Because they're not designed to pace the breath, They're just in one speed actually. What she's created there are using again the individual geometric shape as a foundation, But then she's created these just beautiful mandalas that emerge. I mean, So sophisticated and subtle and the movement, They're incredible. Particularly, The ones that we have on the black backgrounds, We have these in both the light and dark versions. The ones on the black background, If you sit in a slightly darkened room, You know, They come alive. They're the most exquisite kind of alien jellyfish that's sort of come out of the screen at you, You know, In a nice way, Not a scary way. You know, So I don't actually know anything about geometries personally, But Ali does. And she specifically designed these videos to, You know, To operate on those levels and to activate on those levels as well. You know, I love the visuals. I mean, And this really is one of the most beautiful apps that I've ever seen. And just to sit and watch those geometries moving and, You know, Evolving and changing and transforming is, Is it's a kind of relaxing exercise in itself. Yeah. You know, I've often felt that what I would like to have going to sleep is something that is, You know, Projected onto my wall just like this so I could just lie there, Watch it and drift away to it because it's just so, It's so relaxing. They are, You know, We have had people say to us, Oh my goodness, You know, I watched one of these just before bed and, And it really helps me to drift off. So yeah, They're operating on a number of different levels. I mean, They're a form of sort of focus attention meditation because you're, You know, You're looking at this beautiful shape that just takes your attention and you get lost in the intricacies of it and the beauty of it. They really are mesmerizing. So that, You know, Sort of takes you into that deeply relaxed state anyway. Then like you said, There's, You know, There's an art therapy thing going on. I mean, Many times art therapy is us creating art as the form of therapy. So, You know, The user isn't creating, They're receiving, But it's still operating on the same level and the same with the music Mark's created, You know, These beautiful soundtracks, Just gorgeous soundscapes that take you into that relaxation state and very subtle binaural. We're not trying to entrain a brain state as such, We're just, The binaural are there to enhance the music and the music moves in an eight dimensional space as well. And then of course what that does is it just automatically creates a positive emotion. So you can't help but feel happy, Safe, It's beautiful, You know, And we know that when we experience positive emotions, Our physiology changes and our biochemicals, Our hormones change and our brain activity changes. So yeah, They're operating on a number of different levels. If you're using the breath spaces and of course the coherence and the coherent breath work is putting you into balance as well. It's helping the body to go into homeostasis and, You know, Helping the body do what it needs to do to balance the self-regulate and self-organize and repair, All those things. So yeah, There are, But there's definitely some science behind it and the effects are really profound. And we've got such wonderful, Wonderful testimonials from people. Yeah. Well, You know, The science is there. I mean the science on music therapy, The science on, You know, Emotions and regulation, Building resilience, Mental health, Cognition, You know, All kinds of things. It's there and it's about time that this happens because there's so many people who need to relax but don't necessarily want to embrace meditation or like me, Find it very hard to meditate for long periods. Yeah. Well, That's one of the other things that I was interested in. How do we help people who are, Who kind of give up on meditation and mindfulness a bit early because it can be difficult, Can't it? If you don't get like a quick win or many people, You know, They expect a sort of a quick reward and with meditation mindfulness often it does take time. So people give the habit up too early. And so that was another, One of the things I was really excited about with this project was actually just makes it easy. You don't need to try hard. You just need to sit and just lose yourself in it and everything else, You know, Works by itself. So yeah, You know, In that regard, It's just another tool that's out there and it sits alongside your meditation work and your other forms of breath work and yoga and any, All those other great tools. It just makes it easy for people who are, You know, Maybe a bit overwhelmed and can't stop the thinking and all that type of, They can't sit still. This type of audio-visual approach can be really helpful for those people as well. Now this is, This is something that is separate from your work with HeartMath, But I'm sure they must be looking at it closely. I hope so. I mean, Look, HeartMath, You know, HeartMath do what they do and they do it very, Very well and I'm delighted to be standing on the shoulders of giants and representing them over in the UK and Ireland. And you know, I love, I love their products and their technology. HeartMath are focused on the biofeedback and, You know, I hope that maybe they would be interested in integrating this stuff one day, But yeah, They're separate things, You know, And they're focusing on the development of their new products and apps and things like that. The nice thing about the Syntropy app and the, You know, The Inner Balance app that HeartMath have is you can use them at the same time. So the Inner Balance will run in the background while you're running other apps. And so we've already got people who are, Who are using the Inner Balance to measure their coherence, But then they're using the Syntropy videos to get themselves into the coherent state. And what we're seeing actually is that they can achieve really high levels of coherence through using the Syntropy videos. So yeah, They go, They go hand in hand. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe one day you'll see some Syntropy videos in the HeartMath tech, Who knows? I'd love that to happen, But that's their choice. I do think that this whole thing about, You know, A full experience of, You know, Relaxation and meditation with sound, You know, Music, Art, I think it is becoming the way of the future, Without a doubt. Well, I hope so. Yeah, I think it's needed. So look, Actually our mission, Or part of our mission is that we want to help artists to play their part in healing, You know, What is becoming a very, Very stressed and very unhappy society. You know, We've just seen the figures all the time, The mental health figures are terrifying. So we have a problem in society. And currently the approach is to sort of medicalise our way out of it, And it's not working, It hasn't worked up to now, And it's not going to work. What we need are other tools to help people to take control of their own health. And I think art and music have been left out of that equation for far too long. And so part of what Syntropy is about is we want to empower, You know, International emerging artists to play their part in healing society. So whilst at the moment it's all our content, But Sandy, What's going to happen actually is from the 6th of March, We will be working with international artists and we'll be releasing a video from an international artist every single week. So from now until then, It's new Syntropy video every single week. But from the 6th of March, We already have 14 international artists and musicians who are currently creating completely different types of art and music for the Syntropy app. So we're really excited about that because we're championing these artists. We're giving them a platform where they can actually share the beauty of their creations with a wider audience and they can know that they're helping people. And actually, You know, We want them to be promoted to this. We want them to get better known. We want them to get commissions and to sell their artwork and stuff like that. We were amazed because when we put out the open call, We didn't even have the app so no one could even see what we did. But we put out the open call on the number of artistic platforms and we were inundated with people saying that they'd love to work with us and they were sending in their samples. We had 78 samples sent in. We were only actually after 14 videos to begin with. So Ali's just been through this process of going through all the submissions and there's some just stunning work out there. And so what's going to be lovely is there'll be all these different styles, All these new emerging artists, Different types of music. And so really whatever your personal artistic preference is, You know, My hope is that there'll be stuff that's appearing, You know, On a weekly basis that you're going to really get into and really resonate with and that ultimately is going to help you with your stress as well. Well I, If there's anybody listening who is a musician or an artist, Can they still contact you and submit their work? Well, Yeah, I'd love them to. I mean, Yeah, In short, You know, We need people who can create lovely videos. They're only four, Five minutes long maximum. So that's what we're creating is it needs to be a video and the music for the video. But we, At the moment, We've got some people who submitted art and music so that, You know, A single artist has done both. But then we've also had artists and musicians submit separately and we're matchmaking. So we're putting the artists together with the musician and then they're working together and that, You know, That's really exciting as well. And we've got great feedback from the artists saying, This is so cool. You know, I've not actually collaborated in this way with other people. So Sandy, If anyone's listening who is an artist, Yeah, I'd love to hear from them. Good. Okay, Well we'll give details about that at the end of the show. But you know, As you're talking, You're taking me back to my wild youth when I used to go to all the underground clubs in Covent Garden and we're talking about psychedelia. And, You know, You'd have the music playing and you'd have obviously all the psychedelic images on the walls. I mean, You could do something, You know, With this in the same way with different kinds of music for the young. Yeah, Well, That's something we've been thinking about as well is how do we bring this to life outside of the app? So we've got some ideas for some events that we can run sort of online, Like broadcast, You know, Through the Internet, We can broadcast like that. But we've actually just been invited to go to a big event in Greece, A leadership event in Greece, Where we're going to be, It's a hybrid event. So there's people there physically, But there's also people online. And we'll be playing some of the videos on a great big screen and that will also be livecast as well to those people who are joining online. So yeah, I'd love to, We've got the potential to be invited to a couple of other artistic events as well. Ali's already demonstrated to groups of artists on a big screen. That would be cool. And I, Yeah, It's a great way, I think, To maybe get the young folk involved, Sounding like a very old man. Especially, You know, They need something, They need something that's cool and that's of their generation. And that involves, You know, All of this and technology. And you know, So many of them are looking, You know, For their thing that, To be able to do that and also to have a physical effect, You know, On their hearts, Their bodies, Their minds, Their spirits. I just think that would be amazing. Amazing. Well, If we could inspire young people to make, You know, Their own art and music for their own benefit and the benefit of their friends, You know, That would be great. And actually some of the artists who've submitted to us, You know, They're in their 20s anyway. In fact, We've got a teenager who submitted to us from Mexico and it's just, It's incredible. So already we've got some of the younger folk submitting. But yeah, I mean, If we could stimulate something where it became a bit of a thing, You know, Young creative people creating these for themselves and their friends, That would be amazing. Wouldn't it just. We're going to take a short break now, Gavin. You're listening to What is Going On. I'm Sandy Sejbir and I'm speaking with the managing director for HeartMath in the UK and Ireland, Gavin Andrews. We're talking about his latest two projects, The growing international movement We Add Heart and Syntropy States, An exciting new app that blends mesmerising art and music therapy with science to deliver the stress reducing, Immune boosting and pain relieving benefits of breath work, Relaxation and meditation. We'll be back with more from Gavin Andrews after the break. The future of Internet radio is here. Oum Times Radio, IOM FM. Being a radio host on IOM FM allows you to build your show on a rich platform with the power of the Internet to fulfil your outreach goals and connect with a very specialised and global online audience unlimited by time and distance. Oum Times Radio will provide you with web relevance, A recognisable conscious brand and with the standard of excellence that has accompanied every single Oum Times Endeavour. Host your show with Oum Times Radio Network. Vox Novus, The new voice. Vox Novus, The new dimension. Vox Novus, Thought and movement leaders who will share from their experience and offer tools to help us navigate our rapidly changing world. My name is Victor Fuhrman. Join me every Thursday at 8pm Eastern on Oum Times Radio for Vox Novus, The new voice. Hello, I'm Sandy Sedgbeer, Host of Oum Times flagship radio show, What is Going On? And my passion is helping people like you find credible answers to your deepest spiritual questions. As an author, Editor, TV radio host and 13 times book judge, I've read thousands of books and interviewed hundreds of authors, So I know what's worth reading and what's not, Which is why I founded the No BS Spiritual Book Club to help you save time and money by picking the brains of discerning names who have walked this path before you. There's no catch, No joining fees and no BS, Just an ever growing library of the 10 best spiritual books that help some of your favourite authors and teachers on their life paths, Along with free book excerpts, Audios and video podcasts in which they share the intimate stories behind their lists and their journeys. Regardless of where you're at on your evolutionary journey, You'll find dozens of enlightening and empowering recommendations at the No BS Spiritual Book Club. People like Dan Millman, Don Miguel Ruiz Jr, David G, Iyenda Vanzant, Lee Harris, Mark Nepo, Emmanuel Dager, Diva Primo, And Mee Tin, And many more. So why not join the club? It's easy and it's free at the No BS Spiritual Book Club. Com. If you're feeling increasingly lonely right now, You're not alone. It's totally normal. Even though we may not be able to get together in person, Connecting virtually with friends and family still gives you a chance to interact with people and may help raise your spirits. Join a virtual book club, Set up group text chats or online video coffee breaks with coworkers. Find more self care and coping tips at coping-19. Org. Welcome back. Before we resume this week's conversation, Here's a suggestion for those of you who struggle with making important decisions. There's an inspiring book I'd invite you to check out. It's called The Necktie and the Jaguar, And it's by retired clinical psychologist, Jungian analyst and shamanic practitioner, Carl Greer. In addition to revealing how he tapped into the wisdom and power of unseen worlds for guidance and inspiration, Carl Greer's fascinating memoir offers some valuable keys and questions that inspire the kind of thinking that guides you effortlessly on your own path to transformation. You can check it out for yourself at carlgreer. Com. Now back to Gavin Andrews. Gavin. Hello. Centropy is one thing. You're also the founder of We Add Heart. I don't know what you're drinking lately, But you seem to be raring to go creating all of these new initiatives that are offering great hope and, You know, Great experiences for people. So tell me about We Add Heart. What is it and how did you think of it? So We Add Heart is a very simple idea. It's a monthly online heart focused meditation or rather it's multiple ones because the idea is that we've got lots and lots of groups all around the world who are doing these meditations at the same time. So at the moment, It's the HeartMath Coach community, The global HeartMath Coach community who are facilitating these groups. They're across 35 different countries and on the last Wednesday of each month for 35 minutes, Those coaches run the meditation which is a really, Really simple coherence meditation with lots and lots of heart focus, Lots and lots of sending care, Appreciation and compassion out to the world. And the idea is that they have their small group. Some groups are as few as five people. There are some big groups but most are sort of anywhere between five and 15 people. And it's a lovely, Lovely experience of people just coming together, Connecting into their hearts, Connecting with the hearts of everyone else in the Zoom room and then engaging in the coherence meditations and sending that wonderful coherence out into the world as well. So you can see what it is in terms of the format at least. So I mean, Is there a community aspect here? I mean, Do the people after the sessions, You know, Do they stay online and gather and talk and get to, You know, Meet like-minded people? Well, Some do. So the reason it's 35 minutes is we wanted to make this really simple for all of our coaches and we didn't want them to incur any costs. As you probably know, Zoom will let you have 40 minutes free of charge. So for the people who've got the free version of Zoom, It tends to be that, You know, They run the session and then they say goodbye to each other and that's it, Wrap it up. But for people who actually have the paid version of Zoom, Don't need to worry about time often, Yes, Those groups stay together and they, You know, They share a circle or they have just a conversation. So different groups do different things. Generally it's something that people take part in really just because they want, You know, The quiet and they really want to be able to quietly focus in the heart. So I think for most of our participants, They're probably actually less interested in the community side of it, Other than feeling that, You know, They're doing this at the same time as other people. That's the community feel of it. But it's not really about, For most people, You know, Disclosing or sharing or anything like that. It's just very, Very much a quiet time of connection. Now you launched this before Covid and you've said that Covid nearly killed it off, But then actually boosted the movement. How did that happen? Yeah, Yeah. So the initial idea was, I just I just been thinking of ways to try and get the heart mass stuff out there to people who hadn't really heard of it and who were unlikely to hear about heart mass because they, You know, Weren't looking in the right places. So I was thinking, How can we maybe get people to realize that connecting with their heart would be enjoyable and beneficial? So initially we just set up in London one group, Myself and my friend Chang, We ran it and we got people coming into a bank in the financial district of London and we had sort of 20, 30 people coming and sitting together. And we worked out the process. We decided to simplify and it worked really nicely. So we ran a few of them, Sandy. People were turning up again and again. And then we said to some of our coaches, Well, Let's expand it out a bit. Maybe five or six of you would like to set up your own group. So they did that and they reported that it was great. And then we thought, Brilliant, We're in the position now where we can roll this out to the whole of the community. You can make it easy and go structure. We've got some lovely promotional material they can use. And then Covid came along, Of course. We weren't allowed to meet together in rooms and things like that. So yeah, We thought then, Oh, God, That's it. It's killed it off because it's really lovely to sit in a room together and experience that shared coherence. And then Chang and I thought, Well, Actually, Maybe not. Maybe we could do this. Maybe it would actually work online. And we thought, Well, You know, A lot of people are experiencing loneliness in lockdown. We should give this a go and see if it could work. So we put it out to our coaches as well. And then lo and behold, So many people were up for doing it online because it was just easier to find a room or anything like that. And you didn't have to worry about how many people would turn up. So from March of 2020, When we ran the first one of these online, We had 50 groups immediately. I couldn't believe it. And then from that point, We just invited more and more of the HeartMath coach community to get involved. You know, They could attend one so they could experience what it was like. And then they thought, Well, That's great. I want to play my part now. I want to put something out there to help people who are sat at home on their own getting lonely and worried about what's happening to the world and stressed and anxious. And so we scaled up pretty rapidly. And we then got our colleagues in HeartMath Germany and HeartMath Benelux involved, HeartMath Netherlands. So we were adding some groups there. We had a small coach community in Greece as well, And they were up for it. So we sort of stumbled through a happenchance. I mean, In hindsight, It was a synchronicity. But yeah, It just took off because of Covid and because it just was easy to do it online. And you're taking it into the US? So now we're taking it into the US. So yeah, HeartMath US has said this is great. We want to be involved as well. So we're just working out at the moment the best way to open it up to all of their coaches because the US has got the largest community of HeartMath coaches. They've got thousands. So yeah, We need to work out how we open it up to them and onboard them. So there'll be a lot more groups in the US. At the moment, I think there's only five or 10 groups in the US, But that's going to explode over the next few months. And then we're entertaining the idea of, Well, If this really proves to be something that's popular and perhaps the world needs this, Then how do we make this available to other people as well who aren't necessarily HeartMath coaches, But other people who've done other HeartMath programs? And then potentially, One day even anyone that just wants to run a group because it's so easy to do, Sandy. We provide all the promotional materials for our coaches. We even give them a script if they're holding some tension around, Or I'm nervous about doing this and I might forget what to say. We actually provide a script that they can follow if they need that. So yeah, Really anyone who had a passion could run one of these groups. We're not at that stage yet, So that's not unfortunately an open invitation at the moment. So I do hope that one day in the not too distant future, Anybody who wanted to facilitate a group could do that and offer it to people in their area. It also lends itself very well to any kind of gathering. I mean, You know, Whatever people gather for, There's no reason why you couldn't have something like this at the beginning of it, Just, You know, To centre everybody's energy and get everybody into a coherent place. Yeah, Well we've got a couple of people who are offering it in their organisations. So they're doing that before either real or virtual meetings. They're offering this to people. Some of the people that we train are in the National Health Service in the UK and they're talking about offering this to staff but also potentially to patients. So I think that's another thing that's sort of emerging out of this is people are identifying that there are other situations and other ways that you could do this, Which is really exciting. You know, It shows that we must be onto something if it's emerging in this way. Yes, Yes, Absolutely. Absolutely. It seems both of your projects seem to be bang on target time-wise, You know, The synchronicity is there to make these explode. I'm curious to know Gavin. I mean, Before you found HeartMath, What were you doing? Well, That's a very different life. I used to work in the media. I was in the newspaper industry and I was in the commercial side of that. So I used to run a team that sold, You know, Marketing ideas to big brands. Yeah, A very different life, Very much a kind of corporate existence. And what happened to change things for you? Well, I never really felt part of that world anyway, I don't think. It was very good to me and I did well on lots of wonderful things and I worked for some nice organisations actually. I had a wake up call. I was married before my first wife passed away from breast cancer and she was very young. She was only 32. I was very young, I was only 30. And the process of her illness and her passing woke me up really. And after she passed, I just realised, Look, I can't do this anymore. I don't really know who I am. I don't really know what's important anymore. I know that I've lost someone that was important and I recognise that what I'm doing for my work is not important to me really in my heart. And so, Yeah, It was sort of a crucible period in my life when I was lost and grieving and realised that I needed to find a way to reinvent myself and sort of regain some meaning in my life. And that is why I left that world behind. And I didn't really know what to do with myself and somehow I decided, Well, I'm going to go back to university. And I had a bit of a chip on my shoulder actually from my not very impressive former education. And I went back to university and I did a master's degree in business and MBA. I still really don't know why I did that. But anyway, I did and on the MBA, Of all the things I studied, I got really interested in leadership. But it wasn't leadership from sort of a business perspective of how you make lots of money from a business. It was more around what is leadership? Who is a leader? What does it mean to be a leader? And I was really, Really lucky because on my MBA, There was a focus on authentic leadership on emotional intelligence, On values-led leadership. I had a wonderful lecturer, Jenny, Who was very passionate about creating new leaders. So she exposed me to all of this material. And I just thought, Wow, Okay, I had no idea what a leader really was and now I know it's about self-leadership and actually I'm not leading myself. I don't know who I am. So I started this journey of self-discovery and I really resonated with the ideas of authentic leadership and emotional intelligence. And what I realized was I knew all the theories. I could even write wonderful essays and get distinctions and stuff but I couldn't do it. I couldn't do the emotional intelligence. I was consistently saying these stupid things when I was stressed and I was sort of a catastrophizer and a worrier and a really anxious person. And it was then that I actually discovered HeartMath. So it's strange how this all emerged out of a very challenging time in my life. That's what I found myself finding myself. And I went to a weird presentation one day called The Physiology of Leadership and that's where I was introduced to HeartMath. So a guy called Andy Pellant, Who's my business partner now in HeartMath UK, He did a presentation all about leadership and emotional intelligence and how actually it's very difficult to lead yourself when you're stressed and anxious. And that if you can get yourself into the state of coherence, Then actually you can connect with your heart. And then when you connect with your heart, You can make much, Much better decisions about what you should do, Shouldn't do, How you should behave, Where you should put your energy, Your passion, Etc. So yeah, I discovered the sort of new part of my life initially there. I started to practice the HeartMath techniques and they really benefited me in terms of my own stress and anxiety, My own journey out of the other side of my grieving. And I then entered this new life as a university lecturer and a coach and a leadership consultant trainer. And I started to bring the HeartMath stuff into that and the coherence work into that alongside all the traditional management leadership stuff. And it was always the bits of the training and the program and the coaching that people said they enjoyed the most. So that's really when I discovered, Well, This is where my passion and my purpose lies. It's in something that I've discovered for myself that I'm practicing for myself, That I'm living daily. I was doing the practice every single day. And that's why when I share it with other people, It resonates with them and they like it. And that was the start then of all of this. And then a few years later, I was lucky enough to be connected with the HeartMath US guys with Andy. And we started to represent them over here. You know, Now I understand why you're so passionate about creation, Things like We Ed Heart and Syntropy because you want to give people the experiences that you've had. Yeah, Ultimately. I know the benefit of it personally. Even though I've had a challenge in my life, I am a happier and healthier person than I was previously before I knew any of this. And while I was caught up in the programming around what I thought I should be doing and what I thought success and happiness looked like. Yeah, So the difficult challenge was actually ultimately what led me to live my life, My purpose and passion right now. Hmm. I don't think one can go into something like HeartMath and not emerge from it with, You know, Some, Some idea of, You know, Higher consciousness. You know, The, The quantum field, You know, That we're all connected. And it has to be a life changing experience, I believe, If you get really involved in something like HeartMath because it demonstrates all the research demonstrates how much, You know, We are connected and also the power that we have to change things. Were you, Before you discovered HeartMath, Were you somebody who was a spiritual seeker? Yeah, I absolutely was a spiritual seeker seeking all over the place, Actually, And not sticking with anything. I definitely was and have been. I've always, I've always resonated with those ideas of who am I, Who are we, Why are we here, Those types of things. I've always really enjoyed your science fiction that asked those types of questions and twisted ideas of reality and the way things work. And from a relatively young age, I was reading different types of spiritual books as well. So yeah, It's always been there, But it wasn't something that, You know, I stuck with, I didn't, I didn't discover enough about myself until the wake up experience in my early 30s as a result of losing about my first wife. So yeah, It was always there, Definitely was always there. Where do you think the technology that you're playing with can go? I mean, What's beyond the centripetal? Well, I'll tell you where it's going to go. There's another project that I'm involved in, Unbelievably. So there's a gentleman called Peter Grainger who is doing some work at the moment around synchronization between people, Measuring that synchronization through heart rate variability. So obviously, Heart mapping involved in this type of thing as well and doing it with groups and some incredible research actually. Peter and I, We have a particular interest in pairs. We kind of like studying smaller. So we're working on that and you know, How we can do the groups thing and I think that's where the technology is going to be going next is actually validating the connection. Now we know that heart rhythms, They synchronize when you really feel connection with others. Peter's research in particular indicates that you can be intentional about that. It's not just about happening to like someone or love someone, Kind of like being in rapport. Actually you can initiate it and you can, According to the research that we're seeing so far that Peter's engaged in, You can entrain someone else into your synchronization. So by feeling love, Care, Appreciation, Passion for another person and actually being coherent yourself that can impact another person locally. But also Sandy, We've got some pretty wild evidence that this stuff operates non-locally as well. Yes. And that's where I think the technology can be really exciting because there's an opportunity then to challenge that materialist paradigm that says basically, A thought can't change a thing. And I'm sure that you and most of your listeners would disagree with that. And there's an opportunity here to evidence that. It's like, Well, If people's heart rhythms are changing, Correlating with one person feeling care and appreciation for another person who's over the other side of the world and their heart rhythms are changing at that point in time, There's something going on. And whilst correlation is not causation, It's very interesting. Well, You know, We hear a lot these days about the intention experiments, Lynn McTaggart's doing. And before that, You know, Professor William Tiller, Who was a friend of mine, He was able to change the pH balance of water, Sending an intention from his lab in Arizona to a laboratory in Germany. And you know, Statistically significant results. If you can do that with intention, Well, You know, I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with next, Without a doubt. Well, The nice thing with the biofeedback tech is it's very, You know, It's very cheap and simple. So everyone can get involved in that type of thing, Actually. Yeah, Yeah. Brilliant. Beautiful. I love where the technology is taking us. Gavin, We've only got a couple of minutes left. Tell me, Let's go back to Syntropy. People can get it from the App Store. Presumably there is a charge for this. What does it cost? Well, It's well, So you get seven days absolutely free. So you can sample it to your heart's delight. So either on the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store, It's available. So you get seven days free. You have to you kind of sign up at the start, You don't get charged anything. So you get your seven days and then you get asked the question, Do you want to continue? If you don't, That's it. It ends. If you do, Then it is two pounds ninety nine per month or twenty nine pounds ninety nine per year. And you get for that the existing library that's in there and then you get a brand new video every single week. So we've we've intentionally priced this at a point where we hope most people who are interested in it could afford it. You know, It's not far off the price of a cup of coffee a month. So it's about three dollars fifty or something a month. And it's available internationally. Apple will do all the exchange rates so you don't pay in pounds. So yeah, If you go for the monthly, Obviously you can cancel any time. If you go for the annual, I believe you have a 30 day window and you can cancel as well. So no pressure. If people like it, They'll want it. And if they don't, Then it's not for them. But even if you don't want it, We'll send you a free video as well. That's one of the things that we're doing is we'll send a free video. So people just need to search for Syntropy and it will pop up. S Y N T R O P Y. O P Y. Correct. And where can budding musicians who want to engage with you or artists, Where can they contact you? Just email info at Syntropy States. All one word. Syntropy States dot com. Info at Syntropy States dot com. And we'll pick that up. OK. And Andrew, Thank you so much for joining us today. I love your app. I really do. Well, Sandy, Can I tell people how to join We Had Heart as well? That's simple. Oh, Of course. Go ahead. Yeah. Make it quick though. All you need to do is go to We Had Heart dot com and then you'll see a global map there. Find somewhere near you or find somewhere over the other side of the world and join a group. Simple as that. No cost. Absolutely free. Great. Thank you very much, Gavin. We wish you every success. You deserve it. Thank you, Sandy. Thanks a lot. Thank you. So you can find more information about We Had Heart at We Had Heart dot com. Syntropy States at at Syntropy States dot com. I'm tripping over my words here. And of course, If you're interested in learning more about heart math in the UK and Ireland, You can visit www dot heart math dot co dot UK. For more information about the No BS Spiritual Book Club and our live streaming interviews with contributors, Visit said to be a dot com. Click on the No BS Spiritual Book Club tab and you can sign up to be the first to see the latest lists and who's being interviewed next. I'll be back at the same time next week with another edition of What is Going On. Until then, It's goodbye from me.