Is There A Perfect Breath?

Is there a perfect Breath? Gavin shares his story about how he got into the world of Breath, and the incredible mission HeartMath is on. He discusses the 'perfect breath' a.k.a Coherence Breathing. HeartMath is a system of simple and powerful self-regulation techniques which are easy to learn and designed to be used “in the moment”, whatever the situation, meaning that you can bring your best self to your personal, social and professional lives.

Transcript

And then did a demonstration where basically got someone stressed on the stage and we saw their heart rhythms go all over the place,

And then taught them coherence breathing.

And I saw in real time,

This person's heart rhythm shift from like this chaotic pattern where they were stressed and like a high heart rate,

And then shifted into this lovely ordered silenceable pattern very,

Very quickly,

Just with a bit of instruction around breathing and,

You know,

Basically recalling something that you were grateful for.

And it just leapt out at me and thought,

This is good stuff.

This is like how you do the theoretical stuff,

Emotional intelligence and self regulation,

Etc.

So I decided down then,

Right,

I'm going to,

I'm going to practice this,

I'm going to buy a gadget.

And Mikey just worked for me very,

Very quickly.

If you like breath work,

And I think you do because you're watching or listening to this,

You're not going to want to miss this episode.

So that was The Voice,

The second goo you just heard from Gavin Andrews.

And Gavin is the managing director of Hot Math UK and Ireland.

And today we're talking about the perfect breath aka coherence breathing.

So there's an episode you will not want to miss if you're into breath work.

Now I've been a bit fascinated with coherence breathing for a while.

I love all breath work.

You know,

I'm big Wim Hof fan.

I also love Batako and breathing less than you need.

The rebirth and stuff fascinates the bejesus out of me and holotropic and then you've got pranny armour and thousands of different ways that we can breathe.

And so when somebody calls something the perfect breath,

Which I've heard in multiple places,

It sparks my interest.

Because some breathing exercises can stress you out,

Other ones can chill you out.

But what's going on with this one?

Why is it so interesting?

And why are there so many claimed health benefits like maxing out your heart rate variability,

Lowering your blood pressure,

Being able to connect your heart,

Body and mind,

Syncing everything up and all the benefits there.

So we're going to get into all this today.

So just a quick bit about heart math.

So a heart focused breathing meditation that can help you quickly change from feeling stressed to feeling calm,

Science based and use worldwide heart math meditations uses breathing techniques to bring about coherence,

The alignment of your physical,

Mental and emotional systems to work in sync.

I don't know if you've ever seen metronomes when you put them all together on like a wobbly plank,

They're all over the place.

And then after a while,

They can't do that with the camera,

They all start to sync up and all the hell's going on there,

Something called entrainment,

And our diaphragm and our heart,

All connected.

And if we breathe in certain ways,

It has some wonderful effects.

So we'll get into that today.

Also,

Gavin has given us a 20% discount off this,

This is a whole upside down.

There we go.

This is a device that connects to your phone that has an app,

You can connect it to your ear.

And essentially what's going on here is this can detect whether you're in or out of coherence,

You can do different breathing exercises on the app.

And then you can see Oh,

Look,

I can see what's happening to my heart rate,

I can see what's happening to the coherence.

Very,

Very cool,

Not an affiliate,

Just promoting something for heart math,

Because I think it's a very cool piece of kit.

So please,

Please check that out.

And then just last bit for me before we get stuck into this beautiful conversation Gavin's from the UK.

This was on the solstice,

So it was about three weeks ago,

I should say that this is only got 30 days for the discount.

So it's the eighth of July right now.

And then we will be taking the discount off on the seventh of August when maths works.

So yeah,

So be sure to check that link out as well.

If you're new here,

Then we've also got the take a deep breath channel with over 250 breathing exercises 130 plus thousand breathers,

Breathwork ninjas all over there doing different breathing exercises.

We've got breathworks from all walks of life.

So if you've stumbled across this channel,

Make sure you go back over there and check the big channel out.

And if you listen to this as well,

I say hello.

And please have a listen and have a watch if you if you're in the place to do that.

Talking about breathwork ninjas,

What a segue that was the breathwork ninjas course level one,

My foundation course,

The course that took me a year to make that covers all the basics of breathing,

We've forgotten how to breathe,

We breathe too shallow,

We breathe too fast,

We don't breathe using the right muscles,

We don't breathe using the right holes,

And the serious health problems related to this if we don't use the diaphragm properly,

We have digestive and back issues,

We don't bring air into the lower part of our lungs,

Which means that the transfer isn't as efficient as it should be.

If we use our mouth instead of our nose,

Then there's a whole host of problems there,

The air is not being cleaned,

We're not taking the mold and the toxins out of the air,

We're drying the air and we're stressing ourselves out.

And that's just a little touch of some of the problems.

We sit down at desks like this in bad posture,

We have poor role models.

And so when somebody says you've forgotten how to breathe,

You think I've been breathing me entire life,

Do one.

Well,

Actually,

Most of us are breathing poorly.

And we've got something called dysfunctional breathing.

But the thing is,

With my breathwork ninjas level one course,

I take you through a five week program where step by step,

I explained to you the what,

The why and the how.

And there's loads of cool from breathing exercises,

There's things to download.

And my whole goal is to give you the knowledge,

But not for you to forget it.

After those five weeks,

You get to make a sustained change.

And the whole thing's risk free.

There's a 30 day money back guarantee.

So if you click on that link below,

There's a 22% discount for my breathwork ninjas level one course,

Get into the program.

Let me be your breathwork coach,

Your digital breathwork person.

And together we'll go through those breathing exercises.

You can ask me questions in the comments.

There's different people in there.

Thank you so much for the feedback and wonderful things we've heard from people so far.

So come along,

Be a student,

Be a breathwork ninja,

And learn to breathe the way nature intended.

Now that is enough from me.

Thank you for being a breathcast listener.

I love you.

I'm so happy you're here.

I'm grateful that you spend your time listening and like me learning about breathing.

And this is going to be a wonderful episode with Gavin from HeartMath.

Take it away.

Okay,

We are recording a couple of bricks in hot sweaty offices here in the longest day of the year.

Happy Solstice to you,

My friend.

Do you know,

I didn't know that.

Someone told me earlier today it was a solstice.

It was a complete surprise to me.

So that explains why it's so lovely and warm and sunny.

Yeah.

And here we are.

Thank you.

I don't really do much for the solstice.

I really need to think about doing something,

Maybe go to Stone Henge and do some breathwork one year.

Well,

I'm from near Stone Henge.

I'll take you down and then we can visit a couple of local hostelries as well.

That's a verbal contract.

That's caught on camera.

So thank you so much for coming on here.

We've obviously had a couple of conversations before this,

Gavin.

So really looking forward to getting stuck in,

Talking all things coherence,

HeartMath,

Resonance and all that good stuff.

But if you wouldn't mind maybe just to kick us off,

Give people a bit of a taste of who you are,

What's your kind of background?

Oh blimey,

Well,

Original background is nothing to do with any of this.

I used to work in the media,

I used to work in the newspaper industry.

So I spent 10 years in the newspaper industry.

Last place I worked at was The Guardian,

And the whole sort of commercial side of things.

And then I left that world behind.

And I went back to university actually.

And I somehow found myself in this world then through,

I ended up being a leadership coach and trainer and consultant.

And yeah,

I got really into all of that,

But more into self leadership.

And actually,

That's where the HeartMath thing came in.

So for me,

It was through the lens of well,

How do you look after yourself?

How do you manage yourself?

How do you lead yourself?

And how might you put yourself in optimal states to work out who you are,

What you should do with your time and your energy and stuff.

So that's a bit of a potted history,

Media industry,

Bit of time in academia as well as a lecturer,

And then the consultant and trainer.

And then since 2012,

I've been the lucky chap who looks after HeartMath in the UK and Ireland.

So I,

They're a US business,

As many people know,

If you've heard of us.

And yeah,

I'm the lucky guy who looks after the business in the UK and Ireland.

So we sell the products,

We run training programmes.

And actually,

I even get to get out of the UK and Ireland as well.

I was in Greece last week.

So I occasionally get to train in some other bits of Europe.

So that's,

Yeah,

That's my journey into all of this.

Yeah,

That must be quite a different life you've got now from the guy working at the Guardian.

Yeah,

I mean,

They're a lovely company.

But you know,

It's the corporate world.

And I really can't imagine myself going back into the corporate,

I mean,

I work in the corporate world,

Going in and delivering workshops and things,

But I can't imagine myself living in the corporate world again.

In fact,

You know,

I'm probably unemployable,

Actually.

I better stay out of all of that.

And I can just go in and do my thing every now and again.

So yeah,

It's a very different lifestyle.

And I wouldn't swap it.

I love it.

Yeah,

Oh,

That's interesting,

Because I spent 15 years working for big corporations,

White shirt trousers every day,

Running around my laptop and my coffee.

I can't imagine going back to that now.

That seems like a completely different human that had a completely different life.

But I remember,

In fact,

I was just saying to friends the other day,

Things were so busy,

Because I was working in operations,

That sometimes it'd be 2pm before we had time to go for a week,

Because it's just running around for a meet.

That is so different from how things are going these days.

But an experience that I guess you want to have as well,

You know,

It's good to see what these things are like,

I guess.

Yeah,

For sure.

And I,

You know,

I think one of the reasons why I enjoy working in the corporate world and why,

You know,

I think I do a pretty good job is I know what it's like.

I've been there.

So I can understand what it's what it's like for people and what some of the challenges are.

Yeah,

Definitely.

Well,

Let's talk about hot math then.

So we have rolling on,

I think last year,

And people can go back and they can watch that podcast as well.

But I'm really keen to get your perspective on what it is what's going on.

So just talk to me a little bit.

How did you even find out about hot math in the first place?

What was the first thing?

Wow,

Yeah.

So you've had the math professor on so rolling.

Yeah,

He had to pull the research for Harvard.

So I discovered hot math when I was doing a business masters.

So I was one of the modules about leadership.

And one day,

Somebody said,

Oh,

There's this talk,

You should go to us about the physiology of leadership.

And I thought,

Well,

That's,

That's the weird title in the love itself,

The physiology of leadership,

Isn't leadership all about,

You know,

The brain,

And kind of bossing people around and telling them what to do and making loads of money.

So yeah,

So I went on to this presentation.

And really,

It was about emotional intelligence.

But the guy who was presenting,

Who's my business partner now,

Like Andy Pelham,

He,

He started talking about physiology,

And how,

You know,

Your emotions and your state and your stress can impact significantly on the physiology and on your brain,

And how that then can impact your decision making and your behavior and your thoughts and your feelings and stuff like that.

So I was like,

Oh,

I know,

I've been reading all these books about emotional intelligence on my MBA,

I've been writing all these,

You know,

Essays and things I can,

I can get a distinction from my essay,

But I can't be emotionally intelligent,

You know,

Consistently doing say stupid things when I get stressed.

So this guy talking to me,

And I thought,

I like this,

It makes a lot of sense.

And then he brought out a bit of technology.

And I was hooked,

Or hang on a minute,

But this is stuff you can measure as well.

And I thought,

Okay,

So that was the introduction into the HRV side of things.

And then did a demonstration where basically got someone stressed on the stage,

And we saw their heart rhythms go all over the place,

And then taught them coherence breathing.

And I saw in real time,

This person's heart rhythm shift from like this chaotic pattern where they were stressed and like a high heart rate,

And then shifted into this lovely ordered silence,

Sort of pattern very,

Very quickly,

Just with a bit of instruction around breathing and,

You know,

Basically recalling something that you were grateful for.

And it just let out of me and thought,

This is good stuff.

This is like how you do the theoretical stuff of emotional intelligence and self regulation,

Etc.

So I decided down then,

Right,

I'm going to practice this,

I'm going to buy a gadget.

And Mikey just worked for me very,

Very quickly up until that point,

I've been a real stress head.

I was a catastrophiser,

You know,

I'd make stories up in my head about,

You know,

Things that were going to happen in relationships and stuff like that.

And I can remember in the corporate world,

You know,

Going in on the tube and having high heart rate and heart palpitations and sweats and stuff before presentations.

And very quickly upon adopting the the heart and mouth practice,

Coherence practice and using the gadget,

That dialed down a lot.

And I found that there,

You know,

I was getting a bit of space where I wasn't getting stressed so often.

And so because it worked for me,

I kept doing it.

And that was really my introduction to it.

I wasn't doing anything with it professionally,

Then I was just using it myself.

I noticed my sleep got better.

I was noticing I was doing a bit of sort of very,

Very,

Very amateur triathlon at the time.

And I noticed that I was not getting injured as frequently like muscular aches and pains.

So I was thinking,

Well,

Something about this is also helping me recover as well as keeping me less stressed,

So I don't damage myself.

And then it was quite so I can't remember how long it was like a year or so before I started to then bring it into the training work that I was doing the coaching and the leadership training.

And then I started doing some university lecturing leadership as well as like to bring some of this into alongside the theory as well.

This is this is one way that you can do it.

This is how you could be emotionally intelligent very quickly.

So yeah,

That was that was the journey and then from there it was sort of accelerated my start to use it much more in the training I was doing.

I got involved in a in a consultancy that had a heart license in about 2008 or 2009.

And then in 2012 Hartman said to me,

Andy,

Would you like to be Hartman in the UK and Ireland?

So he said,

Go on then.

Yeah,

Been doing that since.

Oh,

Wow.

Fantastic.

And so yeah,

So it's really been a journey for you.

And hasn't it?

And it's been a good few years that it's not it's like,

What is over a decade now that you've been working?

Yeah,

So I discovered it in 2007.

So 15 years now that I've been personally practicing it.

Yeah,

Yeah,

I'm personally practicing it a long time before I got properly involved in the business side of things.

Do you think in that time,

If you looked at the person,

The general personality traits you had before versus now because you seem like a really affable,

Kind,

Calm guy.

I mean,

You probably were always that would you would you say that now I was completely a monster scumbag.

But has anyone ever commented on any changes?

Or have you noticed anything that's that's happened personality wise?

Um,

I'm certainly a lot more chilled out than I used to be,

For sure.

Yeah,

I just don't get as anxious about things.

And I don't,

You know,

I don't spend sort of two or three days before presentation worrying about it.

So part of that's down to the practice part of that obviously is down to kind of experience and wisdom of age and all those types of things.

But for sure,

I'm,

You know,

I'm certain that my practice has,

Has changed sort of my baseline operating system from one that was pretty chaotic and stressed,

To one that on the whole,

Is is kind of okay.

And I,

You know,

Manage most situations.

Sure,

I still get stressed.

I've been to a special situation recently where my wife's not been very well.

But what I find is when I'm in those stressful situations,

I can kind of modulate it and keep on an even keel get through it,

You know?

Yeah.

Whereas the old me would have just catastrophized the whole thing.

Yeah,

Yeah.

No,

That I could definitely relate to some of that catastrophizing,

Sometimes like the smallest thing will happen.

And I have to catch one and go,

Bloody hell,

You just built a whole doomsday snow around.

Really easy.

And obviously,

It's a great,

I guess it's a great survival thing that we needed years ago.

But yeah,

If we can work our way through it,

It's very good.

So could you,

For people that are watching this that maybe have never heard the word coherence before or heart math,

Can you talk about what is coherence breathing?

And what are some of the benefits of it?

Okay,

Well,

So to start with,

In terms of what heart math is,

Heart math is actually a system.

So heart math is a system of breathwork techniques,

Which is where the coherence breathwork comes in.

But in addition to that,

You've got an aspect to it,

Which is about the interoceptions of focusing into your body,

But particularly focusing into the heart.

So,

You know,

A lot of people have never really spent any time noticing what's going on below here.

We're particularly interested in the benefits of nurturing an awareness of your heart.

So that's kind of like a physical awareness,

Interoception of what the heart is doing,

How it's feeling,

You know,

How it's behaving,

But also sort of metaphorically a connection to your heart in terms of,

You know,

The information that your heart might be able to give you,

How you might be able to live your life from the heart a bit more.

So there's,

There's a heart aspect to it,

There's then a self regulation aspect to it.

So once you can get coherent,

Basically,

It enables you to get prefrontal cortex back online.

So then you can self regulate in terms of your emotions and feelings,

Which then enables you to self regulate your thoughts much more effectively as well.

And then,

You know,

Then then regulate your behaviors.

So basically,

It just means that you can be more in charge of yourself,

Which you can't be when you're stressed.

So there's the self regulation piece,

We've got techniques that enable you to do things like solve problems,

Or communicate more effectively,

Or like plan a project,

For example.

So this is kind of doing aspects to the heart techniques.

And then the bit that most people are aware of,

Or what most people think heart math is,

Is the biofeedback technology.

So the biofeedback is,

Is actually just giving you feedback on your ability to get coherent.

So that is the bit that enables you to practice.

First of all,

Validates it,

You can get coherent,

Most people can.

And then it is like a training tool.

So it's like taking your coherence to the gym,

You know,

Every day,

If you practice with your inner balance,

Or your runway pro,

Then what you're doing is you're making sure that you're giving your coherence to work out,

You're strengthening the muscle.

And then that means that it's available to you,

You know,

When you really need it.

So the biofeedback,

It's not an essential part of the system,

Actually,

Because the techniques are the important part of it.

And heart math existed before the technology was even around before we even knew that you could measure the state that people seem to get themselves into.

But for many people,

The technology is is really helpful,

Because the biofeedback builds that awareness of okay,

Well,

When I breathe like this,

Or I make this small adjustments,

I deepen,

Or smooth it a bit more,

I release tension elsewhere in my body,

You're getting the instant biofeedback on that,

And then that's showing up in,

You know,

Either higher or lower levels of coherence.

So just enables you over time to sort of work out your sweet spot,

What works for you.

And then once you've done that,

It basically sustains the habit.

So for me,

I'm kind of addicted to doing 20 minutes a day on my inner balance.

And on the rare occasion,

I don't do I feel bad.

So that's a double down the next day.

Yeah.

But it's just a nice way to kind of like keep the practice going and keep the habit there.

Yeah,

That's what our math is.

In terms of coherence,

Okay,

Coherence is a is a is a state.

It's actually called psychophysiological coherence in the science,

Because it's it's physiological,

And it's also psychological,

What you're doing is you're using the power of the breath to bring the autonomic nervous system into balance,

The balancing,

Syncing up the sympathetic and the parasympathetic.

And once you do that,

That then is reflected in the heart rhythm.

So we go into this lovely ordered pattern and on our technology,

You can see these lovely,

Rolling sinusoidal waveform that you can create.

And then,

If you imagine that the heart is the largest rhythm maker in the body,

What happens when the heart goes into that rhythm is all the other systems kind of synchronize with it.

And so everything's operating in this lovely,

Like efficient state,

All of the kind of energy in your body is being,

You know,

Optimally utilized,

You're naturally going into homeostasis.

The benefit of the brain is that when you're in that state,

The heart's tapping at this lovely ordered rhythm,

The brain in effect goes,

Oh,

Well,

There's this lovely ordered stability coming back at me from the body and the heart.

So I must be safe.

So that then enables the prefrontal cortex to activate,

Which then enables you to do all the stuff the prefrontal cortex can do,

Like,

You know,

Not do and say stupid things.

Solve sophisticated problems,

Communicate with people in,

You know,

Sophisticated,

Complex ways,

That type of thing.

So it's that aspect of it that is when we're stressed.

Yeah,

It's the stress that's driving us,

It's driving what we're thinking and what we were saying and what we're doing.

Whereas if we can recognize,

Well,

I'm stressed,

And you can do these techniques very quickly,

Get yourself out of stress back into the prefrontal cortex.

And then you're much more in control of yourself.

So coherence is the state that basically you put yourself into.

And the benefit is that you're more in control,

And it's good for your physical health,

It's good for your mental health,

It's good for your emotional health.

And I'd say as well,

But it's good for the spiritual or existential part of you as well,

Because you can kind of reflect on those,

You know,

Big important questions in life that are very hard to do in stress.

Oh,

That's a great explanation.

And so because coherence is quite a new word to me,

My vocabulary,

If could you describe it?

Is there like another way?

Is it like,

Are we in sync?

Are we in rhythm?

Is there a different way of saying it as well?

Yeah,

So.

So,

Okay,

A couple of definitely.

So in physics,

Coherence is basically ordered patterning within a system.

So system goes into this lovely ordered pattern repeating cycles.

So the heart system,

And that's what it's doing,

It's going into this coherence,

Or cross coherence is when you have systems that then entrain.

So you've probably seen on the internet,

Like videos of metronomes that are all going at different speeds in those.

Yes.

Okay.

So as long as they're on a base that isn't solid,

They will eventually sync up.

So they sync up to the same rhythm.

So that that is coherence,

Was resonance,

But it's that is coherence.

And in our bodies,

When we're coherent,

A similar thing happens,

Everything syncs up to that same rhythm.

And that rhythm is is optimally efficient and effective.

And so it really is an optimal state for us to be in.

Not for anything in life,

Not when we're running for buses,

You know,

Stuff like that.

But for actually,

You know,

As you're sat there listening to me talk,

Actually,

It would be an optimal state for,

You know,

You're sat in a meeting or presentation,

Or you're trying to come up with an idea for something.

Yeah,

It is not to say so.

So that's what coherence is.

And more and more is becoming a term that people are hearing,

Because what we realize what we recognize is that it's it's an important state for state for us all to be in.

So it's not quite as simple as just,

You know,

Making sure we get relaxation.

What we know now is that you also need enough coherence or synchronization as well as relaxation,

And it is actually a separate state,

Which is so in terms of the autonomic nervous system,

You know,

You've got the sympathetic,

The fight and flight,

And you've got the parasympathetic,

The rest and digest coherence is actually inputs from both systems.

So they're,

They kind of on and off in synchronization,

As opposed to one being dominant,

Or then being antagonistic with each other as they are when you're stressed.

Yeah,

Okay.

Oh,

That's fine.

And so this,

For me,

In the most simple terms is the heart then dictates what the brainwaves are doing.

Is that right?

And then to clear sync up,

I might be saying exactly,

No,

That is that is exactly what's going on.

So the breathing and the heart rhythms,

The brain then synchronizes to those.

And in effect,

You know,

If you put some neuro feedback on someone when they were practicing,

You'd see them generally go into a high alpha brainwave state.

Yeah.

So that's that's what's going on.

Like,

Everything's going to be is following that rhythm from the heart.

So cool.

Do you keep I mean,

I'm hearing,

Obviously,

I mean,

We're in the breath world.

So I guess our viewers already quite niche,

But I'm hearing a lot of things that this is all very well could be considered the breathing technique,

The one breathing technique to rule them all,

So to speak.

Well,

I mean,

I,

You know,

I think of breathwork as like exercise,

And you do different types of breath work,

You know,

To strengthen or activate different things or achieve different ends,

Basically.

But I would venture that,

Yeah,

If there's one technique that is more appropriate for most of the time,

You know,

Those times when you just kind of being you,

They're not suggested coherence breathing,

Or some people might call resonance breathing as well is is optimal for that.

Yeah,

Yeah.

The more that you can do that,

We could just strip it right back to kind of like,

You know,

Relatively slow,

Deep paced breathing.

If you can get if you can build an unconscious habit of that,

That's basically just going to keep you ticking over very nicely in a very efficient way.

And you're going to make it so much easier for your body and your tonight nervous system to look after itself.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Do you?

What are your thoughts on?

Because I a lot of things,

You know,

You read certain books and you hear things and everyone seems to talk about hunter gatherers,

Hunter gatherers did this hunter gatherers,

You know,

We live by the sea,

We've got daylight and blah,

Blah,

Blah.

Do you think that we've always had this and we used to use as naturally?

Or do you think it's something we've discovered recently?

Are there any?

I think there might be in James Ness's book,

Actually,

But there are any references to this being quite an old technique?

Or is it something fairly new?

Oh,

For sure.

No,

For sure.

The technique is ancient.

I mean,

Actually,

When we look at things like certain types of prayer,

Chanting,

You know,

Hymns,

Certain types of poetry,

They tend to put people into a cycle where they tend to be in roughly kind of like a 10 second cycle or equal in breathing cycle as well.

So this stuff is certainly not new.

I mean,

We've been breathing forever.

I'd also say that the coherence is a natural state.

So almost certainly in our prehistory,

When we weren't,

You know,

Rushing around doing things all the time,

Or we weren't so like cognitively engaged all the time,

We would just be kind of coherent,

You know,

For large parts of the day.

Some interesting research coming out around sleep,

That's showing as well that coherence should be showing up in our sleep.

And yeah,

And then if it doesn't happen,

Happen,

Then that can cause some health problems,

Even if it appears that you're getting more than enough parasympathetic,

You know,

The rest and renewal and recuperation part of us.

If there's not coherent showing up as well,

Then that appears to be detrimental.

So some interesting research around shift workers who appear to be getting more than enough parasympathetic recovery,

But we know that they're more likely to,

To get ill as a result of,

You know,

Being at the security rhythms.

And one of the things that they don't seem to have compared to the night sleepers is enough coherent showing up.

So I think,

Yeah,

We just created a world where,

You know,

Well,

We,

You know,

We created a world where we breathe less optimally anyway,

I think we've created a world where we're experiencing less naturally occurring coherence.

That's really interesting.

So,

So is that I mean,

Obviously,

We can dig up the study and have a look at that another time,

But I'm just curious if they said like,

At certain levels of sleep,

You meant to get it or is it just throughout?

So I don't know if you'll know that because it's not your study.

I've no idea.

I'm a bit of an abstract reader.

No,

I need to have a look at that.

That's fascinating.

I could send you the paper.

Yes,

Please.

Yeah,

We can link it actually,

If people want to have a look at that,

Because yeah,

I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to sleep as well.

Because I like a bit of the old mouth tape before bed and now I'm thinking,

Oh,

I need to need to have a little the music on in the background so I can hear the bongs while I'm sleeping.

I'm joking,

Obviously.

But there might there might be something to do that there might be some sort of sleeping coherence that they go we can we can pay to that.

So this state then is it so is it five seconds,

5.

5 seconds,

People tell us there's a unique one.

Well,

I mean,

Look,

We're all different.

The way I view humans is that we you know,

We all got our own kind of like frequency and we've got our own thing we unique.

Generally,

A five second info seven out of 10 seconds cycle,

You know,

Gets a lot of people pretty,

Pretty coherent.

Yeah,

We've all got our own specific resonant frequency.

So for some people,

It might be an 11 second cycle.

For me,

I seem to find a 12 and a half second cycle optimal for me to get highest levels of coherence.

But actually,

Having said that,

For me,

It also changes throughout the day.

So I think,

You know,

There's no one size fits all.

And I don't actually my own personal experience,

I don't think there's even one size fits all.

For one person is dictated by what's going on throughout the day.

And if you think about things like circadian rhythms as well,

Then that would make sense that you might have a slightly different optimal coherence frequency or resonance frequency at different times of the day.

Yeah,

Yeah.

But look,

You know,

If you breathe in somewhere between a 10 second cycle and a 12 second cycle is going to be doing you good.

Yeah,

Yeah.

And just people listening,

This is typically correct me if I'm wrong through the nose.

Absolutely.

In and out through the nose.

And what in terms of volume and pace?

Because obviously you can go.

Yeah.

What what what what what does it look like?

Is it very gentle?

Are you go 50% capacity?

So again,

We're not massively prescriptive on this.

We tend to say to people like breathe a bit slower and deeper than you normally do.

Make sure it's comfortable.

Yeah,

Comfortable.

So and again,

I think for us,

We're we're we're heart math,

We're less concerned about being very prescriptive with people and more about helping them find something that's comfortable for them,

That they can sustain,

Because chances are,

You know,

Even if it's not 100% optimal,

It's going to be somewhere in a good place to you know,

Whether it's 80% or 100% at the end of the day,

Really,

You know,

Who cares,

Just find something that's comfortable,

That works for you can use the biofeedback to check,

You know,

And refine that you might over time be able to retrain yourself to something that's more optimal through to biofeedback as well.

But yeah,

We're not really about,

You know,

Specifying exact depths and things like that.

So now that's good.

I like that as well,

Because it is taking a bit of a Yeah,

You can sometimes you can be too prescriptive,

And then you get a bit stressed that you're not doing it right.

And it can be a bit bit negative.

So here's one for you.

I've only started dabbling.

So I want to talk to you in a second about,

I'm going to get the gadget out of the drawer in a second,

And then we can talk about that and a little challenge on the part myself.

But so I've been playing with coherence just just ever slightly over the last week or so.

And I'll just do just sort of 10 15 minutes of five,

Five,

Five.

And what I noticed,

I'll do a breath hold just afterwards,

Because I'm trying to get on a free dive and retreat and probably where you've just been,

I'm just gonna,

I'm off to call food a couple of weeks.

So my breath holds are I've always been really bad.

I've always took upon my breath.

And I'm not talking the old Wim Hof here where you go crazy,

And then you can hold it for three minutes.

I'm talking right now,

Let's just empty our lungs and hold our breaths,

Which is kind of the oxygen advantage style of doing it.

But with doing coherence the other day,

I did it for like 10 minutes max.

And then I just breathe out normally,

And I held my breath for 90 seconds and empty lungs,

Which is 50% more than I've ever done it in the past.

So any idea what's going on there?

Is that because I'm in parasympathetic,

I'm relaxed?

Well,

Any?

Probably more to do with the co2 homeostasis.

So just breathing in that way means much more effective co2 homeostasis.

So you because you don't have so much co2 in your system,

That's not causing you too many problems.

That's what I would surmise from that.

Yeah.

I was wondering if there's a coherence aspect here where I'm,

I'm just in the zone and I'm some not because it's stressed for me that makes me breathe when I'm holding.

So certainly,

You know,

Just as a result of the coherence practice,

You,

You'll have dialed down all the stress,

You'll be feeling calm,

But you'll be feeling alert.

So that's one of the other things with this breathing pattern is it doesn't make you too sleepy headed.

Yeah,

Makes you feel alert,

But calm.

So that will be a benefit because you're not,

You know,

Operating off a stressy baseline,

You know,

Gonna try and hold my breath again,

I can't do it for very long,

My sports have probably disappeared a bit as well.

Yeah,

So you probably just raised the baseline tolerance a bit in terms of both the co2 and your general stressiness around breath holes.

Yeah.

And it's interesting because it's the exact opposite if you go on YouTube and look at people that are doing breath holes,

That it's all about Wim Hof,

Hyperventilate,

Blow off as much co2 as possible,

And then like,

Hold your breath.

And so it was really interesting to go,

Oh,

There's a different way to do this,

You can slow your breathing down and then hold your breath off the back of it as well.

But I just found it.

Yeah,

Fascinating.

So I'm seeing what else we can do.

But I'm gonna just dig out the box.

I should have done this before we hit record.

So I might have to cut this out,

Which give me 10 seconds and dig out the box.

I'll wave a box around while you're doing that.

Here's a hot mat box.

So the gadget that you've got here is the we sent you the in a balance didn't we and you've got one of the wired ones.

Yeah,

For Android.

So we got a few of those according to balances because they create a balance.

And there's a Bluetooth version that works with Apple and Android.

And then there's a wired version if you don't want Bluetooth for Apple,

There's a wired version for Android,

Which is Yeah,

Well,

You've got mic.

So literally just plugs into the bottom of the to the smartphone,

Smartphone.

Yeah,

Plugged in there.

And then that that is sensor that's,

That's called a photo plethysmograph takes a lot of practicing.

So it's an infrared sensor basically.

And so what it's doing is it's measuring that one measures 250 times a second,

The density of the blood and capillaries of the earlobe.

So that based on how much blood there is,

We know whether the heart's beating or not,

Basically,

It's quite very simple.

It's like saying,

Can I see red,

Either can use a full or can I see,

Like pink,

They're empty.

It's a bit more sophisticated than that.

But then it's working out the heart's rhythm from that.

So 250 times a second,

It's doing that and making a calculation sends it to the to the sensor,

Which performs a clever algorithm.

And then it begins to work out the frequencies of cycles,

And then it can calculate how coherent you are or not.

So it's actually a simple device.

And yes,

It's providing you with feedback on what your heart rhythms are doing.

And then it turns it into visual information for you and also gives you different data points and things.

And is there something here where when you breathe out with coherence,

Is there like a rush of blood or something like that?

Is it something to do with the diaphragm pumping the heart?

Well,

So what is well,

So it's measuring the blood pressure.

So basically,

When you get the ventricular contraction,

You send a pressure wave,

You know,

So it's actually measuring the pressure wave.

That's it.

That's actually what's going on.

Yeah.

So it's not measuring the pressure wave in the heart beat it's looking for in the air.

It's not like an electric,

Well,

It is,

But it's a proxy.

So if it was electronic,

It'd be measuring the actual electrical like an ECG,

You know,

Measures the electrical signal.

This isn't measuring electrical signal,

It's measuring the density of the blood pressure wave,

Basically,

That it's measuring.

And then,

But that correlates like 95% within ECG.

So although it's not electrical,

We can actually recreate,

Like the ECG from the information that we're getting from the,

The infrared sensor.

Yeah.

Oh,

Very cool.

So my plan is to is to do a 30 day,

Because I've only dabbled with coherence a couple of times,

But I've not measured anything.

So I'm just any advice,

You know,

Best time of day to do it.

You mentioned 20 minutes earlier,

Is that optimal?

If you could just give some advice on if I want to do this to start?

Yeah,

So so we say,

As a bare minimum,

Five minutes,

Three times a day,

My personal belief and the evidence that I see when I work with people is that 20 minutes a day in one go is optimal.

And that's really going to retrain your nervous system,

It's really going to hardwire the technique in for you as well.

Yeah,

You're going to notice more changes in your kind of like general stress responses,

You might even get people saying to you,

Like,

You're a bit different today.

What's going on?

You've been drinking.

So I'd say if you want to really get the most out of it in 20 minutes a day is optimal.

In terms of time of day,

Actually,

Again,

Everyone's a bit different.

For me,

When I wake up,

I'm not going to get my highest coherence scores.

And you know,

I can feel the core of the system when I've woken up,

You know,

My heart rate's like 10 beats higher than normal when I wake up.

So then I need to get through to around about 11am,

Then I can get high school,

Then go through straight after lunch,

I'm not going to get a high score again,

You know,

Just eating something messing with the autonomic nervous system is doing what it needs to do.

But then by about 3pm,

Again,

I can get high school.

Typically,

For me,

I like to practice anywhere between 8pm and 10pm.

If I leave it late in 10pm,

I fall asleep when I'm doing it and it buckles up my high school.

So yeah,

Really get high school don't do it late at night.

Because one of the things that coherence does is it lets your body do what it really needs to do next.

And you get all that information from the body about what it really needs.

So if you're tired,

Typically you can find for the first five minutes or so you get very high level of coherence.

And then the body's got into balance,

Then it wants to go into deep parasympathetic.

So you'll start drifting off.

So we hear a lot of people say,

Oh,

When I start doing the practice,

And they say my sleep got better.

Your body knows what it needs to do next.

And it's relaxed.

Okay.

Yeah,

It's going into it from a place of balance as opposed to activation.

So if you've been watching,

You know,

Game of Thrones and people lopping limbs off,

You're all highly excited emotionally and try to go to sleep,

It's going to be difficult.

Whereas if you spend a bit of time practicing coherence,

You're probably going to go to sleep a bit quicker.

Yeah,

In a different life.

I used to play Call of Duty online about in about 2008.

I had no idea about blue light and stress,

You know,

This is years ago.

I remember trying to go to bed and I've been shouting at the screen for like four hours and just in bed like,

I don't think I can play Call of Duty at 11pm at night anymore.

But yeah,

So yeah,

Don't be full of adrenaline.

You're running around from people trying to kill you.

So with this then,

So one thing I've noticed when I'm doing a bit of coherence breathing is after about eight or 10 minutes,

My mind starts to wander.

Now,

Is it a bit of grin and bear it and keep pushing through to 20?

Or is it that is that a time when you kind of stop and then just keep practicing?

Now,

So again,

With our practice,

I mean,

Ideally,

We want people to be able to practice coherence when they're doing stuff,

That's where we want to get to.

So in the moment,

Eyes open,

You should be able to practice coherence.

So all it is really is kind of like a,

The basics is just the breathing anyway,

What we call heart focused breathing,

Where we want to go to,

As soon as possible,

Really from the heart focused breathing is into some sort of positive emotion.

So for quick coherence technique,

For example,

You're just going to be recalling like,

You know,

Someone or something for which you feel genuine care or appreciation or gratitude.

So appreciation,

Gratitude,

Love,

Care,

Those types of things can try to feel those feelings.

Yeah,

Then that's what we want to do.

But they're going to be fleeting,

They're going to be in and out,

Your mind's going to wander.

We're not looking for empty mind,

Or anything like that.

We are actually looking to experience a positive,

Pleasant,

Elevating feeling or emotion,

That's actually what we want.

And so yeah,

That's,

Again,

That's like a muscle,

Not people are not used to being able to choose emotions,

But most people think emotions are just reactions,

Which they are,

But they're also choices.

And so part of this practice is about exercising your choice around gratitude,

Appreciation,

Love,

Care,

Etc,

Which also has additional physiological benefits.

So you'll start with the HEA,

The vitality hormone,

If you tap into those types of feelings,

If you're really able to kind of tap into love for someone,

You're going to start releasing some oxytocin,

Probably as well.

So you kind of like a dance mic,

You know,

You do the breathing,

You connect to the feeling,

The feeling might be fleeting,

It disappears again,

You start thinking about what you can have for dinner,

That's fine,

You know,

Come back to the breathing again,

Then try and bring the feeling back in again.

And I can't do 20 minutes of feeling,

You know,

Uninterrupted appreciation,

Love and gratitude.

It's in and out.

So again,

We don't we don't,

We don't want to give people like a bar that's too high to try and hit,

You know,

Yeah.

At the very least,

Even if you can't connect with the feeling,

Just 20 minutes of the coherence breathing is going to do you good.

So it is what it is,

You know,

If we can't connect with the feeling on a on one day,

We give ourselves a hard time about it.

Yeah,

It's,

For me,

Again,

I've only been dabbling with it recently,

But it's like,

Ah,

This might be the thing I was looking for.

Because,

You know,

Sometimes like,

Let's do some breath work,

And he's gonna do some separate meditation.

And he's,

You know,

And that's actually this kind of feels like it ticks quite a few boxes for me,

It's got it's my meditation and breath work all rolled into one.

And I feel slower breathing is also taking a few of those,

As we spoke about on the different conversation,

Functional breathing elements,

Because I'm slowing my breath down,

I'm no longer breathing at the 15 to 18 breaths a minute that people tend to be breathing that today,

We've brought it right down.

So I'm getting all the benefits of the functional side,

I think as well.

For sure,

For sure.

And then also what you what you can do within your practice as well as you could decide that you're going to use the state,

The optimal state of coherence,

To engage with something like like a,

Like a problem or something like that.

So I mean,

We could give it a go if you want.

Why don't we?

I'll tell you what we could do.

We could in effect,

I could teach three techniques in one,

Okay,

We could just do some heart focused breathing,

We'll go then into a quick coherence.

And then what we'll do is we'll,

We'll move into what we call a freeze frame.

Okay.

But first thing though,

So everyone who's watching can do this as well.

I just want you to to like recall something you got on going on at the moment that is really challenging,

Which is causing you too much pressure,

It's stressing you,

Frustrating you,

Irritating you,

It can be any thing,

Anything to do with work or life relationship that really doesn't matter what it is.

So it looks like you've got something already,

Mike.

Yeah,

Okay.

But most people have so we need something to work on basically,

Okay.

So we're going to do what's called a freeze frame on that issue.

But before we do go,

Just just kind of connect with any really,

Really think about that thing,

Situation,

Event,

Person,

Relationship,

Whatever it is.

Just notice like any attitude,

Just like any attitudes that you've got about it.

Or any thoughts and feelings you might be having about it.

Or even anything physical,

Like,

You know,

Physical sensations like attention,

Or the butterflies in the tummy or anything like that.

So the idea is that we just want to get some awareness around what this situation is doing to us when we come out from a normal perspective,

Which is a bit of a stressing perspective.

Okay,

So what we're doing is when we finish the technique,

I'm just gonna ask you to reflect on that,

Those attitudes and feelings and thoughts and stuff.

And then to reflect on after the practice,

What the difference might be,

If any.

Right,

So we'll start off with what we call heart focused breathing,

Very,

Very simple.

We like simple names in heart length.

So just get comfortable.

And we just basically drop our awareness,

Our focus down into the heart area,

Or just the kind of general chest area doesn't have to be technically directly in the physical heart,

But generally the heart or chest area.

So we've got to focus on our awareness there,

It helps put your hand there.

And then what we can do is we're just going to start breathing nice and deeply and comfortably.

Just take a few nice,

Deep,

Comfortable breaths.

And now what we're going to do is we're just going to imagine that our breath is flowing into and flowing out of our heart or our chest area.

So we're imagining that we're keeping our bellies nice and relaxed.

So we should feel our bellies rising and falling as we are breathing.

We're also breathing through our noses.

So it's just sort of gentle imagination or gentle awareness of the breath flowing into and out of the heart or the chest.

We'll do that for about a minute.

Okay,

So now what I'd like to invite you to do is just to recall someone or something for which you feel genuine care,

Appreciation or gratitude.

It doesn't matter what it is,

Be it person or place or memory,

Pet,

Anything at all just needs to be genuine feeling of care,

Appreciation or gratitude.

And then when you have that feeling of care,

Appreciation or gratitude,

Just gently breathe that in and out with each breath,

Keeping the focus in the heart.

We're going to do that for another minute.

Okay,

So now from this more objective place,

I just want you to gently ask yourself,

What would be a more efficient or effective action,

Attitude or solution with respect to the initial situation?

So what would be a more efficient or effective action,

Attitude or solution?

And just keep the breathing flowing,

Keep the feeling going as well.

Again,

Gently just one more time,

What would be a more efficient or effective attitude,

Action or solution?

And I just quietly observe any subtle changes that you might have in your perception or your attitude,

Your feelings about the situation.

And like,

I don't need to know the story behind all of this,

But I'm just interested to know,

What was your previous perspective on the situation,

The attitudes,

The thoughts,

The feelings,

Anything like that,

What was what was going on beforehand?

But good,

By the way,

I just reminded just that was a lovely reminder,

Just take some time out during the day,

Because I'll do my breath work in the morning.

And then I'm just go,

Go,

Go,

Go to bed.

And I was just like,

Oh,

This is really lovely to take some time out at 7pm.

So yeah,

I've got a really big project a minute,

And it's got so many moving parts,

And it just all my stomach just locks up whenever I think about it,

And I just procrastinate on it.

And so at the end of that,

After the kind of the gratitude thing,

I was like,

Just need to get started.

It's just,

It's just,

It's just moving one step after another.

And actually,

It's quite simple if you just start moving.

But I've just every week of like,

I'll do that later.

And then it just never gets done.

So yeah,

That was just that was a lovely clarity there.

And just almost a relaxing of the tension going,

Just just do it just get started,

Man.

It's not gonna be perfect.

So yeah,

Very,

Very interesting.

So that's,

That's really what harnesses all about.

It's like simple practical tools that don't take very long,

Where you can switch from a like a stress perspective that is confusing you and you're not making the decision.

It's actually draining you as well energetically from that perspective,

Very quickly,

If we get coherent,

And then we get the positive feelings flowing and get the prefrontal cortex back online,

Then all of a sudden,

The perspective changes.

And it's like,

You know,

It's just,

I just need to get on with it.

And I know that if I do,

I'll find some traction.

And so there's a lot more ease and flow about that,

Which is where we want to get to because actually,

Throughout our days,

You know,

We're coming up against stuff all the time,

Stressors,

There's problems,

There's tensions,

There's,

Oh,

I don't want to do this.

And we want to try and create more ease and flow.

And that's what coherence is,

If you think about it is flow,

Right.

And we can then use that state to navigate the complexities of what we've going on.

And we could be that,

You know,

Sometimes even when we do this technique,

People,

They come up with some sort of an answer,

Like a solution and epiphany can't promise that every time.

But even if it's just the more subtle,

You know,

I'm building this up to something bigger than it is.

And I know that if I just get on with it,

It's gonna flow.

That's all good stuff.

Yeah.

So that's how coherence can benefit you in your day to day.

It's forming it technique,

You know,

Got a lot of people just kind of sit like,

Oh,

But it's problem.

I don't know how to solve it.

You know,

You won't solve it from that place.

I've got a shift state.

Yeah,

Keep banging your head against that brick wall.

And I will find an answer.

It's not gonna happen.

It's not gonna happen.

But we somehow still think that's just keep,

If I just work a bit harder,

If I just push myself a little bit more.

I have to say the whole,

It's so simple yet so powerful,

The whole gratitude piece.

And for me recently,

This,

This morning was the first time it happened.

I did my coherence this morning,

Just,

I was just scanning through like different faces of people in my life,

Different people and parents,

My friends,

My partner,

And then just landed on my grandma who was suddenly not with us anymore.

And boom,

There was just this moment of,

Ah,

And then even then I was just able to go back to all these lovely childhood memories that I've not thought about for 30 years.

So I just feel lovely off the back of it.

So super powerful.

Yeah.

And that's,

You know,

That's,

That's something that we can all do.

Because before most people,

They don't recognise that emotions are choices.

Most people just go through life,

You know,

Reacting,

Or we put our focus on fortunate or negative things.

But we can choose emotions.

And so it's just about exercising that choice a bit more frequently.

And it has amazing health benefits.

I mean,

There's a tonne of research around gratitude,

We know it has health benefits.

When you're doing this,

In addition to coherence,

You know,

It really is good for you.

So we should all be doing it more frequently throughout our days as well,

Because we've got people getting very out of balance during the days,

And then they're trying to catch up with their sleep at night.

We can actually kind of modulate flow with our days with a lot more ease,

If we're more intentional about recognising when we're stressed and then using these simple techniques to navigate.

Yeah,

That's very cool.

So I'm very keen to talk about your beautiful breathing app.

Central people before we do,

I think we've got a bit of a we can talk about a bit of an offer we can link people.

Yeah,

They want to Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah,

These.

Absolutely.

So yeah,

We'll do a 20% discount.

So all people need to do is just use the code breathe.

No,

Not breathe breath,

Not breathe breath.

20 Okay,

Breath 20.

We'll put that in all the info.

That will only work on UK store,

I'm afraid.

I think most of your views are UK.

But yeah,

Breath 20.

And that's a 20% discount off of any of the products.

Fantastic.

We do we do have a chunk of us people out there.

Hello to the US as well.

You have a word with my colleagues.

I will try my very best to get them to create the same code.

Fantastic.

Yeah,

We can we can we can pop that and we'll put the links down below.

Yeah,

I think about 30% of the audiences from the States.

So okay,

I'll make it I'll make it happen.

Okay,

Yeah,

Wonderful.

And so I'm going to be doing the 30 day trial,

That's not the right word,

But a bit of a challenge myself to make sure I do it every day,

Without forcing myself because you've taught me now not to be too strict on myself,

I just need to have some fun with it.

But yeah,

I want to start creating a bit of a daily ritual around some of this.

And then the beautiful thing is I can track it now and see what's what's going on.

So I'll be sharing some of that online.

People want to join me.

Cool.

Okay.

So yeah,

So that's hot.

Anything else on hot math you want to talk about before we move on?

No,

I think that's all good.

I mean,

If people are interested in research,

Then they can look at the HeartMath Institute's website,

Which has got a lot of research papers on as well.

But yeah,

I think we covered covered the basics.

I could talk about.

Yeah,

I'd love to hear what what why hot math?

What what what's that?

Why?

Why math?

Well,

A couple of reasons for that.

So So one is because what the heart is doing is it can be explained mathematically.

Right.

So that's to do with kind of the frequencies and the rhythms.

So there is maths to what the heart is in,

It can be measured,

And we can influence that as well.

One of the other reasons that apparently is that the the US guys wanted a name that they felt kind of was both masculine and feminine of it,

Yin and yang.

And so kind of the heart and the math.

Ideally,

It's designed to appeal to both.

I don't know.

I mean,

There we are.

Yeah.

And over here,

We will say hot maths probably wouldn't we?

We'll say maths.

Yeah.

We say maths.

Maths for the plural.

I think I saw,

I'm sure I saw that while ago,

Tony Robbins was using some hot maths stuff.

If you've come across that,

He seems to be a big,

Big fan of hot math stuff.

Tony Robbins uses style stuff.

Yeah.

And some of the other big names like Joe Dispenza,

Craig Baden,

Bruce Lips and Bruce Lips is a big fan.

So yeah,

We're very lucky in that there's a number of those science meets personal development meets spirituality gurus,

Who are fans of hot math.

And we're very lucky because they talk about our research,

I mean,

It kind of validates a lot of what they're saying anyway,

For benefit to them.

But we're very fortunate.

Joe Dispenza is probably the biggest fan of all hot maths,

We do research with him.

That's amazing.

Yeah,

He's obviously big into all that lovely gratitude side of things as well.

That's his deal.

Cool.

Okay,

So yeah,

So everybody links down below.

Have a look at the hot math website,

Check out the podcast also rolling,

We'll link all of that.

So if you want to go deeper down the hot math trail,

You can do and now let's talk about your beautiful app Syntropy.

So what is Syntropy?

What does the word mean?

First of all,

Does it mean?

Well,

Yes,

Since you create is another word that you're going to hear more of.

Syntropy is the opposite of entropy.

So entropy is actually the emergence of order,

And symmetry and complexity out of chaos.

So actually,

Syntropy is like a force of nature,

If you think of like the most incredible,

You know,

Flowers and trees grow from a single seed or,

You know,

An incredibly sophisticated human grows from a,

You know,

A sperm and an egg,

You know,

That that really is what Syntropy is all about.

So science tends to talk more about entropy,

Because you measure it more easily.

That's about,

You know,

Stuff decaying and rotting and being destroyed,

Dying.

But yeah,

Syntropy is some order from chaos,

Basically,

Which is,

Which is why we chose the name for the app.

That's very cool.

I've never heard of that before.

Because I always hear about entropy and the universe.

You know,

This thing about the universe is breaking apart,

And everything will just be open,

And there'll be no lights and you hear all this doom and gloom.

But that,

Yeah,

That's that's okay.

Equal forces.

Yeah,

So Syntropy comes first,

And then it evolves.

Well,

Just never ending cycles of entropy and entropy,

You know,

Life and death,

You know,

It's like the rhythms,

The polarities that exist.

So night and day,

Male and female.

Yeah.

What's the what's the ethos of this for you?

What is it?

Is it a coherence or something else?

Yeah,

Well,

So yeah,

So Syntropy,

Is a lockdown,

Like side hustle that has turned into a real business and as if I wasn't busy enough as it as it was.

So yeah,

I have two business partners,

She's an artist,

Mark's a musician.

And for some time,

I've been really interested in how we make coherence easy and accessible for people.

And you know,

To be frank,

The sensors are not cheap.

And so they're not available to everybody,

You need to have a disposable income to afford them.

And I'm also very passionate about the power of art music to help people shift their state.

So you know,

Think about it,

We often consume our music intentionally to do something with our emotions to make ourselves happy with comedy,

Or scare ourselves witness with horror or whatever.

So.

So I've been thinking for some time,

How,

How could we harness art and music to help people practice coherence and shift their states.

And then Ali and Mark magically appeared at that moment synchronization,

Synchronicity in the universe.

And so yeah,

We decided to do that.

So initially,

It was just