Faith In What?

What is an act of "faith" and what, in its deepest essence, do you have faith in? Saqib & Charles explore these questions and more for themselves. Each session begins with one minute of silence followed by an unplanned interpersonal exploration of the present moment. And to finish, Saqib provides a short impromptu guided meditation based on the themes that arise in the session. We hope you enjoy!

Transcript

Hello,

Welcome to another What Is Now?

Experience.

I'm Charles Freely,

And I'm here with my good friend Sakib Rizvi.

If we had to be categorized,

We're both investigators of consciousness,

With training backgrounds and professional experience in the world of psychological and spiritual healing.

Each of these sessions is an adventure of the present moment.

Sakib and I begin each session by sitting in silence for one minute,

And then simply see what arises now.

We have no plan,

No prepared material or concepts to cover,

But are placing our trust in the wisdom of this right now experience.

This is an expression of our shared philosophy of healing.

If we can only let go of our desire for the present moment to be a certain way,

Other than it is,

Then we can find the unexpected answers of what is actually now.

So if you will join us,

We will begin with one minute of silence,

And you can use this minute in whatever way you like,

With your eyes closed,

Sitting,

Eyes open,

Standing,

Or walking,

Or driving in your car.

We only ask that you return to what is actually happening right now in this moment,

To re-send the momentum of the day,

And open up to just this.

After this minute,

Sakib and I will explore whatever arises between us.

We identify themes of our exploration as we go,

And then Sakib finishes with a short guided meditation based on the themes that arise in the session.

And now let's enter one minute of silence together as we explore what is now really.

We'll hear a bell to start and end this one minute of your day.

How was that experience?

Interesting,

I was just noticing right now the feeling of reflection,

Almost like seeing you as.

.

.

So for the listener,

We're doing this via Zoom video,

And you're straight across from me on my screen,

Which is a pretty big screen here.

And when I open my eyes up,

It's like you sitting,

And it feels like in a very similar posture and right in line with where I am.

And I was just feeling almost like a mirror reflection of me,

Sort of reflected in you.

Maybe these sessions are making a similar.

.

.

It makes me think of maybe it could be that way with anyone through relating in this kind of stripped down way,

Where it's almost like the layers of self and the things that make me my separate self,

Maybe protect me sort of against the world in some way by giving me something to hold on to and some structure.

It's like by relating here together in this really raw way,

That stuff has the opportunity to kind of shed itself and drift to the side.

I'm envisioning that happening maybe for both of us through just being in the space of now and revealing something that's very just kind of raw and basic at the core of both of us that maybe is the same.

And how does that feel?

I remember a question from someone and maybe at that time I was not able to give the answer.

How does it feel to have the ego melted and come into an experience of someone else?

Is it a physical feeling or is it like leaving the body?

Is it more of energy?

How does that feel to you?

My first answer is just very warm.

And maybe along with the warmth,

There's like comfort or something there,

Which not comfort in any sort of particular way or saying something comforting or reassuring me of something,

But just like a basic warmth and comfort of being with another person.

It's almost like I talked about this with a friend of mine.

And so this small group of friends of mine,

We occasionally will meet together for maybe like once or twice a year for a weekend somewhere.

And we all have our different professional lives.

And in their lives,

Maybe in particular,

They have to be pretty professional.

They work in the medical field.

And at those times,

Last time I remember I was talking with one of them,

Artie is his name.

And we talked about during that time together,

It's like peeling back all the layers of that stuff that maybe most people see and that you feel like you need to present to the world.

And it's almost like it's peeling it back for a moment and sort of waving to each other and like a thumbs up behind the curtain.

Like I see you,

You see me,

And this is good.

And maybe some of the wish to do that all the time,

Which I feel like has been a big part of my life and kind of ongoing journey to be that way as much of the time as possible to have all that stuff kind of like wiped away.

But it's also a kind of scary and vulnerable place to be.

So that's the feeling I think of when,

When you ask that question,

What's it like,

Like,

As you hear this from me,

And what's your feeling of that,

Like,

Or your sense of all that?

For me,

It's like,

The feeling is of oneness in the sense that and I had a similar feeling today,

And it was like,

I'm seeing the same person inside another body,

I'm seeing myself inside another body,

As if we are having two different vantage points to look at myself and oneself,

You know,

Somehow,

Somehow in the same time,

I'm existing in this body,

And also existing in your body,

The same consciousness,

The same awareness,

Just having a different experience,

You having a different experience,

And me wanting to know from you that what does that experience feel like,

You know,

So you are having,

I'm,

My awareness is in this body,

Wherein I'm experiencing the life of this character called Satyabarizvi.

But my awareness is also,

It's my awareness,

Which is in another body of Charles Freely,

Who is experiencing another kind of a life.

So it's like,

I'm curious,

Okay,

What are you experiencing,

You know,

As if as if like,

There are two,

There are two brothers or friends who go on different kind of journeys on trips.

And you know,

Then they're curious to know,

Okay,

What what was their experiences?

Yeah,

Being like that?

Yeah.

I was struck by the way you said that,

Like,

I'm curious to know what it is that you're experiencing,

Because I,

And then I thought of it,

Like a character or quality of it in two different ways,

One being like,

Kind of really playful.

Like,

I'm so curious to know what your experience is like.

And then another one that's more pleading,

Like,

Just desperate,

Like,

I wish I could actually know what you're feeling like.

Yeah.

And that one makes me think of maybe there's kind of a,

Maybe a basic suffering that anyone as a separate being feels maybe this deep desire to actually truly know how someone else feels,

Or what it's like to be someone else.

I wonder,

I was reading a book recently,

And I feel like this is what the person was talking about from the beginning,

It's like,

We're thrust into the world,

You know,

You're separated from the umbilical cord,

And then you're this separate,

Quote unquote,

Entity.

And then there's maybe for the rest of your life,

This just deep basic desire to come back into connection.

And we try to do that in so many different ways.

Maybe that's like all of what we do in life is some veiled attempt just to get like connection,

Or it's a truly maybe have others,

Another person see you and know that they see you.

Yeah,

Yeah,

That was it's just struck me when you when you said that.

Yeah,

Because I heard it in both of those ways.

Yeah.

And also,

That reminds me of the the connection that each one of us,

You know,

On this planet that we crave for.

And that's why I think they say that man is a social animal,

Because we really want to feel that oneness,

You know,

It's like,

It's like,

There,

There is someone is in a prison.

And there is a person,

You know,

A family member outside the prison who have come to meet that person.

And they're somehow not able to connect with each other because of those bars in between.

So this body feels like those bars,

Where there is this desperate attempt,

You know,

This craving to connect with someone so deeply.

And that is why there is this desire to be with people around be around people have intimate relationships,

You know,

Experience that intimacy.

Do what we're doing.

Yeah,

Not only you and me and also the sharing of this with whoever may be listening.

It feels like it's another manifestation of that same deep desire.

Like I have my,

As you said,

Prison body that I could be trapped in and then here,

It feels to me like we're doing as good as we can of like,

Making our way through that or maybe at least like seeing each other behind the prison bars and just kind of like feeling reassured that that you're there and I'm here.

But it also sounds like what you're saying.

And what I think about too is,

There is some basic part of us that is beyond the prison.

But there's a basic,

Like distinction between me,

Charles,

My life,

My thoughts,

The stuff that I do,

And that,

And that deeper thing that is beyond the prison.

It's like,

It feels like they go in direct conflict.

Hmm.

Yeah,

It's I was wondering that how,

How do we experience this on that level of oneness that deep level,

You know,

Where,

Where we,

We are not having this perception of limitedness in the body,

But which is something beyond,

Which is a level of oneness with someone else.

And I was having this image in my mind right now that,

You know,

Maybe this happens after death,

Or maybe this,

This happens at some other level of awareness where my soul or consciousness,

Whatever that is your consciousness,

We are like having a discussion.

Oh,

So,

You know,

Tell me what,

What,

What,

What is happening in your life and having that discussion at the way we are having at a physical level here,

But also at that level of awareness,

Wherein we are sharing with each other,

Having that feedback,

Giving that feedback to each other,

Loving,

You know,

Learning from each other.

And this also reminds me of the idea of like the what Carl Jung proposed of the collective unconscious,

Maybe we share all these things,

Our experiences at another level,

And that is getting stored in our collective unconscious.

So the vision expanded for me of,

Of you and me standing in our prison cells,

Interacting with each other,

And seeing each other and like feeling some reassure meant that we're here with each other,

But also there being something maybe beyond me or beyond this life or beyond whatever that is like,

Is beyond anything that you or I as separate people could comprehend.

But in some way,

It's like,

Almost we're like instruments that is playing through and,

And playing music back and forth or seeing itself in each other in some way.

But I wonder,

Can,

Is it possible for you,

Sakib and me,

Charles,

To,

To feel that or to like,

So it's something I heard you say,

Maybe there is that that's something that could be beyond this life,

Hypothetically.

Is it something that we can feel and be a part of now?

That's a good question.

And that also brings to mind the idea of enlightenment,

Maybe something what Buddha experienced,

In which,

You know,

They say that there is this feeling of oneness with entire existence in that state of enlightenment.

And maybe that state of enlightenment is that feeling of,

You know,

Experiencing that with,

With not only like between two people or two consciousness,

Individual consciousness,

But the entire collective consciousness.

Maybe that's through meditation.

I don't know,

Because I have,

So in my meditation experiences,

I have experienced that oneness to us to a certain level,

In the sense that there is an expansion of consciousness.

However,

Regarding one person,

I might not have experienced that,

But I might have experienced that in a,

In a different setting in which it's more of empathy.

And I remember a time when I was,

Like,

I was,

I was back in India,

And I was hospitalized.

I was,

I had,

Like a certain disease at that time,

It is called dengue.

And I was hospitalized for that.

And on the opposite side,

You know,

There was a bed and there was person lying in the bed and he was,

He was in a state of coma,

Only his head could move,

But his body couldn't.

And I was just after,

And there was an eye contact between me and him.

And just after having that eye contact,

I started sobbing,

Like,

Really badly.

I was crying,

I was literally making noises while crying.

And I could not believe myself,

I could not see the reason why I'm crying so much.

It was as if it was out of control,

Totally.

And at that moment,

I was totally feeling the pain of his,

You know,

His being caught in that body kind of a prison that he was in that he was not able to come out of that his,

His eagerness to come out of that.

And I could feel that.

And it was a very,

It was as if I was in his body.

So it was a very kind of a close experience to what we're talking about.

So maybe that happens through empathy.

But I don't know how that happens.

What triggers that?

Yeah.

Yeah,

Wow.

And what a,

Just thinking of how that relates to so much of how we might describe our human experience.

Like,

You can only,

You live in the head,

Quote unquote,

Or in the thinking mind,

And then in like,

The whole body is almost like it's something separate.

And in that person,

It's like,

Actually,

Literally,

You're seeing that that way.

I wonder if maybe a lot of what you and I do for work,

In terms of working with individuals is somehow similar of,

Of seeing that in someone else,

This,

Like the struggle of being so yeah,

Kind of tortured by the self in different ways.

And,

And helping.

Well,

Not in that case,

Helping,

But just feeling maybe so much of what at least maybe what what I do is just trying to also feel what they feel or see what it is that they're struggling with without the effort to try to fix it or change it or anything like that.

I've been thinking this whole time about the prison visual,

And maybe the tendency to try to break out,

Or like shake at the bars or like scream for someone else to get me out of here or me to shout to you to try to like,

Help me figure out how to,

To get out.

And that that probably just makes it more and more frustrating and yeah,

More and more sad or scary or something increases.

Yeah.

Versus some,

Like what you were describing,

In terms of enlightenment or something like that of feels to me like a total counter effort of noticing all of that desire to try to break out.

And I'm just continually coming back to really just like see what's happening.

And I don't know,

I'm having this,

It's kind of a beautiful vision,

The way this is played out in my mind as we've been talking,

But I see me.

So I see you in your prison and I see this urge to like go and shake at the bars and scream and try to get you to help me in some way and then some awareness that the prison is not really there.

It's not really a prison,

But through the lens of me as someone separate from you and separate from this bigger thing that we're talking about,

It is there.

But I would also have to let go of this notion of me in order to then I'm envisioning myself letting go,

Sitting down in the center of this little cube and just being there.

And then these prison bars gradually like dissolve and it becomes this vast open space.

But then also maybe I dissolve,

Which is the possibly the scariest thing for that me that was in there trying to break out.

I don't know.

What do you think of all that?

No,

That's wonderful.

In fact,

I was having this same kind of vision.

And I was thinking that as I was saying about that prison thing,

I was thinking that maybe the prison is just in the mind.

You know,

There is no prison.

And this idea of the prison is something we is which our ego creates or you know,

Is created by conditioning,

Social conditioning,

Whatever that is,

Since ages,

We have been taught that you are this body,

You are limited to this body,

You know,

You cannot experience anything outside that this body defines you,

You are the separate self.

So this is more of a mental prison that by reinforcing these ideas again and again and again,

We have kind of created to just experiences this limited being.

However,

If we be conditioned that however,

If we let go of those ideas and experience awareness as it is,

Maybe there is then we feel that expansion.

And you know,

Realize that okay,

There was never a prison prison in the first place,

It was just an idea.

And maybe that is how that experience of enlightenment feels like.

I'm thinking back to what you and I were talking about before the we started the recording portion today.

And I think we've mentioned before that sometimes that will,

Sakav and I will talk for a while before just like catching up with each other and exploring things in a similar way then.

And then we shift into,

Okay,

We're going to go into silence and then start the experience to record and share with you all.

But you were sharing about like this notion of faith.

And I'm wondering,

And maybe some of the struggle with faith or to have faith,

And I'm wondering how that plays into kind of what,

How would faith play into maybe this prison paradigm,

If that makes sense?

Yeah,

Yeah,

Totally.

Yeah.

To just give a context with the listener,

We were talking about how faith and I was telling me how faith helps me to feel good about myself and realize that,

Okay,

There is a benevolent universe that is supporting us and we are more than just the body.

So yes,

It absolutely fits into this discussion of ours.

That's wonderful because this faith,

No,

It depends upon where is the faith coming from.

Either,

Either I can have the idea of faith in the sense that,

Okay,

I believe in all these,

I have listened to Buddha's enlightenment story.

I have listened to this idea of expanded awareness.

You know,

I know that.

So that is one level of faith in which I have heard about these things,

But I think this faith becomes stronger when I have that experience,

When I experience it somehow,

Maybe through meditation,

Whatever that medium is.

And this makes me realize that because there has been instances in my life when I have experienced that I have experienced those expanded states of consciousness.

That's what makes my faith stronger in this idea of not being a limited self and being something more than that.

So totally fits into this.

So is that what you,

Cause I was thinking in my mind,

Like,

How would you describe what,

What the faith is in and you kind of set it there faith in you,

Whether that's lowercase you or uppercase you being something that is,

Is beyond this,

This,

Maybe this body or the sense of,

Of Sakib as a separate self.

There's the faith in that.

And what is,

What does that provide?

Having that faith?

Yeah,

That provides a sense of unlimitedness,

Infinity,

The power to do things,

The power to,

Because there is this notion that,

You know,

Because we are limited in the body and we are kind of the output and product of,

Of an accident in the universe through,

Through evolution,

We were like,

This accident happened,

Life happened on earth and we became this limited body.

It more feels like,

You know,

Being in a,

In a victim mode in which I feel that because that accident created me,

That accident can destroy me as well.

But when I feel that,

Okay,

There is something beyond this,

You know,

Maybe that field of consciousness,

Whatever,

Whatever that is,

If that is something which is in control and that is something which creates our experience,

Then maybe we are not the result of an accident.

Maybe we created this,

You know,

From that consciousness,

It is,

We are in control and we are not the victim here.

So that feeling gives a sense of control,

A sense of power,

A sense of relief.

Yeah.

The word,

And the word I was thinking of was,

Yeah,

What you just said,

The last word you said relief,

Like so this deep pervading relief,

Because then in that way,

There is no me to be afraid.

There is,

There's,

I am not separate from,

From anything.

So there's no object for a me to be scared of.

And something that interesting to me that you said was faith coming from different sources,

And one realm of sources,

You could call it external.

And so like reading the story of Buddha,

Or reading different people or hearing stories of different people or learning things and how that could contribute to a certain sort of faith.

But that being maybe different from a faith that comes only from your own experience.

And something I'm thinking of,

In terms of the external is that maybe a tricky thing there is that in some way that maintains a separate you because you it's you that is receiving these things and like,

Okay,

That out there is giving me a sense of faith.

And it's giving me some assurance that there's this thing,

But all implied there to me.

On a fundamental level is a you that is separate from all those things.

And so it's like,

It's maintaining me in the prison.

I'm seeing people out there,

Okay,

They're freed from the prison,

They're freed.

But I'm maintaining this notion of me as someone that if I only like work hard enough,

Then I can free myself.

Versus what you described in the other way,

Which is it's not coming from anywhere else,

But quote unquote,

Inside of me.

And that's something.

That's how I just describe faith for myself.

It's just faith in this,

Like,

It's,

I have total faith in maybe capital T,

This,

Because I know it,

Like,

It's here now.

And it's the only thing that I can know,

Like,

I could read about something.

But even then my faith would just be the act of reading.

Like,

It's just the act of whatever is actually happening right now in my present experience,

I can imagine something that is out there.

But I can always come back to just like,

Just this.

And that's a very reassuring feeling that I can apply in any situation if I feel fearful,

Or maybe if I'm going down the rabbit hole of what is all this anyways,

Or like you were mentioning about free will,

Like the,

Do I even have free will?

Am I being controlled by something?

Because all of that to me remains conceptual and is coming from a me that is thinking about things separate from me.

And then there's some way that I can come back to just a basic feeling of quote unquote myself or feeling,

Lowercase myself as uppercase myself.

And I can always remember that in any moment,

But it's so easy to forget that.

Yeah.

And I think that brings back to the question that what is now?

This all that rationalizing that,

Okay,

I might,

I might not have free will,

I'm,

I'm controlled and all these things that again,

Thoughts,

Which are taking us away from the now experience,

But just by bringing us back to the now,

Maybe we start experiencing that and then leave all those ideas.

So yeah.

So it's like,

Yeah,

I like how you tied that in.

So I guess for me,

Faith is in now and it doesn't go any further.

And if I can truly ask that question without there being a me that is looking for some particular answer to be found,

Because then I'm limiting what now can actually show me.

But if I'm feeling into this truly with openness,

Then the answer is constantly like arising.

Yeah,

Yeah.

No,

That's a very valid point.

And I think that is really helpful to me in the sense sometimes when I go in that state of doubt versus faith.

And I was talking about that before the session,

But just simply realizing and coming back to the now can bring me back to that faith.

And because the faith then comes from experience because rather than thinking about it and conceptualizing it,

I am experiencing it now in the moment.

So yeah,

Thank you so much for that.

How was it for me to,

Cause like we talked about potentially coming,

Seeing if that topic came back up together,

But how did it feel for you to,

For me to bring it back up without me necessarily asking you,

Cause that was you kind of sharing with me,

Feels like in a vulnerable way about yourself.

And I feel totally trusting that it is okay with you to share.

But also I would want to know how that felt or feels for me to just ask you about your experience,

What you shared with me outside of this,

The session.

It feels wonderful.

And especially because it is so fitting and you know,

Such as the synchronicity of the session today that we were discussing something else,

Which was regarding faith before the session,

Which was regarding faith and doubt.

But then we started on a different note,

But how that fits in what we would,

You know,

What we were discussing that,

That came so naturally.

And as if this whole conversation was building up to this idea of faith and no faith.

So it's,

It's beautiful.

And I'm totally like,

I believe that vulnerability for me is,

Is something very necessary here in the session,

Because this is what the session is about.

What is now.

And if I'm not being vulnerable and not sharing what I'm feeling,

Then it's like only telling you my limited experience of now and not telling the entirety of it.

So,

So yes,

I absolutely that's wonderful.

And thank you for asking that because it also brought me clarity that how this now can help me to have faith in my experience.

And also like the example that you gave about it is so fitting.

And I was just thinking about this,

That,

You know,

This,

This is how religion and spirituality might be different in that sense,

That the idea of the prison,

That there are,

You know,

If we can imagine and visualize a prison,

Wherein there are so many cells,

People are locked up.

And when someone is in a prison and they see someone else who is,

Who is getting out of the prison,

Then they are like,

In religion,

Maybe they are like,

Okay,

Only this person deserves to get out of the prison,

Not me.

And that is what,

You know,

The idea has been that,

Okay,

There are certain prophets,

There are certain people who can get out of the prison,

But not me.

I can just listen to them.

I can just listen to their ideas.

But maybe spirituality is about realizing that you also have that potential to get out.

And in the first place,

There is no prison.

So it's more,

It becomes about you rather than someone else.

So I think everything is,

Everything fits in whatever we are discussing.

Which is maybe a cool message for the listener too,

Because I could even see there being some element of that here where you,

The listener,

Are listening to us.

And maybe in some way it appears like we might be quote unquote more liberated or like that we understand something that you are maybe wishing to understand that may or may not be the case for you.

But my hope is through both your and my vulnerability,

Sakha,

That everyone can see that we're also on an ongoing basis struggling with this basic dichotomy of me as a self versus this deeper all-pervading capital S self.

And that we're all,

I guess,

Totally equal in that whole thing.

And that maybe the answer to it all is so immediately available.

Maybe it's so available that it's hard to actually see.

Because it's like right under your nose or something like that.

Maybe it's because you can't see it or grasp it.

Yeah,

It's like hiding right here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now,

Just in terms of faith,

I've been noticing the more that I feel like I genuinely am placing my faith in now,

In returning to what is now,

The more it seems that I find like what you said how it just kind of naturally flows back into this thing we were talking about.

It just seems like how everything is so basically related.

And like no matter what you're talking about,

If you open up to this moment and this other person in a really genuine way,

It's like anything that you talk about conceptually might just come back to something that's very fundamentally the same.

No matter what it is.

It seems that way to me,

Like,

Just more I go in life and whether it's meeting with like just talking with someone or if it's by myself or working with clients or it,

But it takes this vulnerable sort of leap to let go of grasp to let go of the prison bars and like sit down and then you're like,

Oh,

Yeah,

I remember.

I don't know what it is that I remember,

But I like remember very,

Certainly something.

Yeah.

And also this then brings this question to my mind that all this conceptualizing all this ideas that we talk about or the world talks about is that also taking us away from the experience of what is the truth?

Because as you said that,

You know,

Everything just boils down to a single thing and we come back to that center and everything is so connected in our conversation.

So maybe we are just kind of beating around the bush and experiencing it in the present moment,

Like what is the experience of it?

So yeah,

This,

This again brings the questions of limitations of language,

The idea of experiencing something together by having the conversation rather than just experiencing it.

Which is so fun to me about this experience here with you because it exists in this,

The realm of quote unquote podcasts,

Which are generally,

At least in my experience,

Very content rich,

Like it's somewhat,

It's several people talking about particular things,

Presenting particular perspectives,

Opinions,

Stances,

Trying to figure out a problem.

And I feel like,

You know,

We're,

We're doing something that can't be done really.

We're attempting because so much of it will inevitably become conceptual because like it just turns into a concept when you take something and talk about it.

But we're doing this fun thing where we're just continually like noticing ourselves doing that and coming back and just continually doing that in an interpersonal way.

So it's been,

It's so much fun for me.

This feels very alive.

And I think I've shared before,

It's almost like a dojo for the now experience together.

Yeah.

And all this wisdom bringing us back to the experience,

Like I believe wisdom,

Why wisdom is important and why talking about it also concepts are important because it brings you back to the experience.

So it's like you are,

You are experiencing it,

But then you start talking about it and then you are going away from the experience and you reach a particular point.

And there you meet a particular guru or a spiritual master or whoever that is.

And they point you back,

Going back to where you came from.

So they are then giving you the wisdom to go back to experience.

So this wisdom is also to get back to experience.

Yeah I love that.

I've heard of the,

I've heard that what,

What a true guru does is they just point,

It's like pointing out just to the,

To the point where you,

You just see it and,

And they're just like calling out all of the kind of wasted energy and effort that you inevitably exert as a separate self and just continually reminding you of that.

And you're like,

Oh yeah.

And to look forward,

You just remember kind of reflexively.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally,

Totally.

I could visualize that in which I,

In fact,

I had a picture in my mind of one of my gurus who from whom I was learning meditation and he I remember I was,

I was so curious about meditation and you know,

About Buddhism,

Spirituality and all these things.

I was asking too many questions and so I was meditating and then I would open my eyes and then I would start asking questions and he would tell me to,

He would point me to go back into meditation.

And I,

It's a,

It's a very similar experience to what you were saying.

Have you heard the little Zen story about the,

The,

The professor and the Zen master and the cup of tea?

I think I have a few to remind me of that.

It's just,

There's this and I might've shared it here before.

I've shared it in many places.

It's one of my favorites.

There's this like philosophy professor,

Maybe religion,

Some professor,

Some very learned person who is really interested in learning deeply about Zen.

And so he reaches out to this monastery and this Zen master at a monastery and asks if he can come to discuss Zen with the teacher,

With the master,

Whatever you want to call him.

And so the Zen master accepts him and the professor comes and visits.

And so the master invites the professor in and they go to this table in some room and the philosophy professor sits down.

He's,

He starts talking about things.

He's asking questions,

He's sharing about his own thoughts about Zen and then like what he wants to know.

And this whole time the Zen master is preparing tea to bring over.

And so he's making the tea,

He brings it over and the philosophy professor is just keeps going and keeps asking questions.

He's so excited to learn.

And then as he continues to go,

The Zen master starts pouring the tea into the professor's cup and he just keeps pouring to the point where it spills over onto the table and spills over onto the floor and onto the professor.

And the professor is like,

What the hell are you doing?

This the cup is full.

And the Zen master says something like,

Just like this cup,

Your mind is full of speculations and thoughts.

And how can you possibly attain Zen without first emptying your cup?

Something like that.

Yeah,

Or even learn something new without emptying the cup.

Right.

Yeah,

That's a beautiful story.

I heard it somewhere from someone and yeah,

Thank you so much for sharing that.

Totally describes how we over conceptualize things.

Yeah,

And I'll share with you one more thing.

But maybe before we switch into a practice,

I was just thinking about the notion of Guru and I was remembering a mentor figure of mine.

And he,

We were talking about the notion of a guru.

And he was saying from his perspective that a guru can be anything.

Doesn't have to be a person can be,

It can be anything.

And there are many,

Very,

Many different versions of that.

I forget exactly how we were talking about but it was that was the basic concept.

And he said that,

Like,

One main figure like that for him was he was driving on the highway one time,

And there was quite a bit going on in his life,

He kind of didn't know what the next step he was going to take was,

I guess he probably finished undergrad and he wasn't sure where his life was going.

And was kind of like,

Slacking quite a bit or not putting much effort into his life at that point.

And he's driving on the highway and this rock comes and hits his window like right in the direction of the middle of his forehead,

Like lands right there.

Really fast and really loud and hard as he's driving on the highway and he said something about that experience like shook him into awareness of everything that was going on in his life and what he was actually doing and what he actually wanted to do and what he knew he wanted to do deep down.

And it was like it just,

It just shook him into awareness.

And it was like a reminder of like,

Oh,

Yeah,

This is,

This is clearly what I really want to do in life.

And I'm wasting it right now and something he just needed something like that to kind of shake him.

It made me think of the pointing out,

Like,

Yes,

This thing that is clearly pointing out,

Hey,

You're here,

You're alive right now.

Like,

This is it.

This is your chance.

And,

And that could maybe come from any source.

I wonder depending on your openness.

That's a beautiful story.

Yeah.

Like so wonderful to realize that even a rock piece of rock can be your guru,

Whatever that is,

You know,

And that reminds me of how many gurus I have had my entire life,

Not only in the form of people,

But even in the form of situations in life,

You know,

Simply asking the question,

What we can make that situation a guru by asking this question,

Okay,

What is it trying to teach me here?

You know,

This may be this challenging situation,

This difficulty I'm facing in life.

What is it teaching me here?

And if you ask that question,

That can become our guru,

And maybe we can overcome that.

Beautiful.

So maybe let's get into meditation.

See,

Let's see what comes up today in meditation.

Sounds good.

Great.

Okay.

So I would now request the listener to get into their meditative posture.

And you can then gradually close your eyes for this meditation.

And as you close your eyes,

You can bring your awareness to your breath.

Feeling the flow of the breath as it goes in your body and comes out.

Good.

If you find your awareness distracted,

You can acknowledge that.

And without any judgment,

Maybe then gently bring your awareness back to your breath.

And then you can bring to mind any situation in your life that was challenging for you or that is challenging for you.

Maybe you are going through that challenging situation right now.

Or maybe you had that in your past.

Think about that situation.

And as you think about that situation,

Ask this question,

What is this situation trying to teach me?

What is this situation trying to teach me?

What is this situation trying to teach me?

What is this situation trying to teach me?

Once you have the answer,

You can even thank that situation.

Feel gratitude for it in your heart.

Maybe see that situation as your guru.

Maybe saying words of gratitude in your heart.

Thank you.

Thank you for teaching me that.

And then in your own time,

Can gradually bring your awareness back to your body.

Feeling the presence of your body in your surroundings.

And then gradually open your eyes and come out of the meditation.

Thank you for that,

As always,

Saket.

Thank you for the wonderful session.

Thanks to the listeners and we'll be with you soon.

Take care.

Thank you for joining us in the What Is Now experience.

We hope that you liked the episode.

If there were any insights or ideas arising for you as you were listening to our conversation,

Then you can share those ideas through your comments.

We would love to know.

Stay tuned for the next episode.

Namaste.

Reviews

Courageous and inspiring. The insight of faith as product or co-arising of mindful presence is a great pointer. Thanks guys!