12:46

Zen & Thinking's Bad Rap

by Seiso

Rated
4.9
Type
talks
Activity
Meditation
Suitable for
Everyone
Plays
754

Discussion of the role of thinking in Zen meditation and the misconception that thinking must be eliminated. Offers technique to deal with thoughts to make stronger, brighter and more effective by shifting our relationship to thoughts.

ZenThinkingZazenAwarenessRight ThinkingMusho TokuDogenInsightsThoughtsNon Goal OrientedMindZen BuddhismRight Brain ThinkingDogen TeachingsAwareness MeditationsMind NatureNon Goal Oriented PracticesRelationships With Thoughts

Transcript

Thinking's Bad Rap Please note that this is a talk on Zen meditation,

But not a guided meditation.

I'll be speaking about the role of thinking in Zazen,

Or Zen Buddhist meditation,

From the Soto Zen perspective.

It will help to clarify,

Strengthen,

And deepen your practice.

I'd like to begin with this Zen dialogue.

Once,

When the Master,

Yue Shan,

Was sitting,

A monk asked,

What are you thinking of,

Sitting there so fixedly?

The Master answered,

I'm thinking of not thinking.

The monk asked,

How do you think of not thinking?

The Master answered,

Non-thinking.

The relationship between Zen meditation,

Or Zazen,

And thinking,

Has been problematic in Zen Buddhism since its development in China centuries ago and has continued right through to the present day.

Shikantaza,

Or just sitting,

The practice of Zazen advocated by Eihei Dougan,

Who founded the Soto Zen sect in Japan during the 13th century,

Functions as an expression of our original enlightenment,

Which is implied in the story above that I just read.

Thinking and not thinking are both included on equal terms.

Despite his insistence on this point,

Thinking is often considered to be unreal and is typically minimized or viewed as an obstruction to spiritual realization.

This common,

Although erroneous view of Zen Buddhist meditation is that meditation and thinking are at odds with each other and that thinking must be eliminated for the practitioner to be successful with meditation.

For example,

The Zen philosopher Toshihiko Izutsu argues for a quote,

A mistrust in thinking and an elimination of discursive thinking,

End quote.

Izutsu's comment serves as a typical example of the critique of thinking.

His view exemplifies a larger response to thinking in the history of Zen.

As the Zen Buddhist philosopher Masao Abe observes,

End quote,

In Zen the positive and creative aspects of human thinking have been neglected and only its dualistic and discriminative aspects have been clearly realized as something to be overcome,

End quote.

This negative attitude towards thinking flies in the face of the notion of Shoshiryo or Right Thinking,

Which as part of the Buddhist Eightfold Path is foundational in insight into the basic tenets of Zen Buddhism through experience based on practice.

Isho Fujita,

A contemporary Zen priest and teacher,

Traces back this negative view of thinking in relation to Chinese Chan Buddhism to an incorrect understanding of the first ancestor of Zen in China,

Bodhidharma's practice of Zazen,

In terms of the difference between Zazen,

Sitting,

And Shuzhen,

Learning meditation.

He writes,

And I quote,

Except for his own disciples,

Small in number,

Very few could understand the true meaning of what he was doing by facing the wall.

Fujita describes Shuzhen as a form of meditation to attain special states of mind.

In other words,

Shuzhen from this point of view describes a goal-oriented practice that is limited in scope because it is focused on a specific goal,

The cessation of thought,

Or the attainment of mystical powers,

Or the induction of trance states.

The practice thus becomes an instrument or a tool that is secondary to the projected goal,

Whatever that might be.

As I mentioned,

Shikantaser is an expression of our innate enlightenment and doesn't have the added pressure of reaching a goal.

So we practice with Musho Toku,

Or no gaining mind.

The historian Der Shusan,

Who erroneously described Bodhidharma as a practitioner of Shuzhen,

Fueled this confusion between his practice of Zazen,

Or facing the wall as it is often called,

And Shuzhen,

As I mentioned,

Means learning meditation.

Dogen makes this distinction between Zazen and Shuzhen very clear in Fukun Zazenji,

The universal principles of Zen meditation,

A practice focused writing.

And he writes,

The Zazen I speak of is not learning meditation.

It is simply the Dharma gate of repose and bliss,

Also translated as ease and joy.

For centuries,

Many Zen teachers have strived to expose and correct this mistaken goal-oriented and quietest view of Zazen.

For instance,

The contemporary Zen master Sekkei Harada writes,

I think there are many of you who think I must not think.

So you suppress thought.

This is the worst thing to do.

You are suppressing the natural flow of the Dharma itself.

Don't think of trying to suppress thought.

Dogen has been an outspoken critic of this quietest view with respect to his understanding of the terms used in the opening dialogue between Yarsan and the Nameless Monk.

These terms are Shiryo,

Or thinking,

Fu Shiryo,

Not thinking,

And He Shiryo,

Non-thinking or beyond thinking.

He places them all on equal footing.

For instance,

In Hosho,

Or the Dharma nature chapter of his Shobu Genzo,

The true Dharma I,

He writes,

Thinking and not thinking are both the Dharma nature.

Yet,

In many quarters,

Whether explicitly stated or not,

A devaluation of thinking still exists.

Part of the problem stems from how we understand practice,

Which can be determined by unconscious factors that support our rationalizations that then in turn create incorrect ideas about practice.

Such ideas often operate subliminally in the background of our consciousness and can guide our experience of practice,

Often in extremely subtle ways.

Internally,

Misguided practices driven by the false idea that we must eliminate thinking can become coupled with an unnecessary ongoing evaluation,

Frequently in the form of negative self-judgments for the failure to stop thinking during Zazen.

This misguided orientation creates a split mind.

Part of the mind produces thoughts as it should and will,

While another split off part of the mind stands back in judgment,

Based on the failure of any attempts to completely eliminate thinking.

This orientation,

No matter how subtle,

Imposes unnecessary pressure and creates a practical problem,

Because the mind is supposed to think.

That is what mind does.

Further,

This misguided approach can create a vicious cycle,

In part because the attention is on the actual thoughts themselves,

Rather than on the activity that occurs with our relationship to the thoughts.

This false view of realizational practice is embedded in our culture and can be deeply ingrained and fixed deeply in our unconscious.

Even though we might know better intellectually,

The view that thoughts should be eliminated can still operate to one degree or another unconsciously and influence our response to practice and function as an obstacle to the lived experience of practice.

Just as eyes see,

Ears hear,

Nose smells,

Tongue tastes,

Mind thinks.

So there is absolutely no need to defeat thinking.

The notion of calm or stillness within the rising and falling of mental processes,

Not the elimination of the mental processes,

Is the key.

In other words,

It is our attitude and relationship to thinking that's important.

When we practice,

We can shift our attitude and relationship to thinking and not thinking by just noticing.

Noticing the rise and fall of all experience without attachment,

Without aversion,

Without judgment.

Just noticing.

Nothing more.

When we realize this and can take the backward step,

Our naturalness evolves and flourishes,

And a deeper sense of ease and joy,

Which has always been present,

Manifests and becomes clear and influences all of our activities and relationships in life.

Contrary to the bad rap that thinking continues to receive,

Thoughts and thinking processes certainly have positive uses.

Making the distinctions and discriminations that derive through linear thinking contributes to solving the many challenges and problems faced in daily life.

We are all one,

But we are also unique and separate,

And many instances that occur in everyday life require the thought that it enables us to keep these separations intact,

That we honor and respect differences,

That we maintain healthy distances and distinctions,

While at the same time realizing the fundamental interconnectedness of all beings and bringing our innate wisdom and compassion to all of the circumstances of daily life.

Thank you.

Meet your Teacher

SeisoBarre, VT 05641, USA

4.9 (82)

Recent Reviews

Leslie

February 6, 2024

Thank you for this exposition, Sensei. A tickle of understanding happened, and I will need to revisit this teaching again. Thank you 🙏

Karenmarie

December 2, 2022

Very interesting. I will be listening to this again. Thank you 🙏🏽

Matthew

October 22, 2022

At the beginning of the talk you state that this is not a guided meditation. Whilst true, it functions well, particularly given the nature of the topic discussed as the basis for a meditation that does not resist thinking. Thank you.

John

June 4, 2022

So clear. I’ve struggled with the splitting encouraged by the anti-thinking culture. I have a philosophical inclination, and love thinking rigorously. I also am a meditator of many decades practice. Your comments are very beneficial to me.

Ricci

April 23, 2022

Thank you! 🙏

Phil

March 22, 2022

A helpful talk clearing up the view on thinking, and non-thinking.

carlos

July 20, 2021

Great talk, putting together important aspects of za zen. Thanks Seiso!

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© 2026 Seiso. All rights reserved. All copyright in this work remains with the original creator. No part of this material may be reproduced, distributed, or transmitted in any form or by any means, without the prior written permission of the copyright owner.

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