Are Ghosts, Angels And Devas Real?

00:02 Q1) Do you believe in Devas, and other subtle-bodied beings in higher, lower, and parallel realms? 01:12 Q2) When did you first start to believe in these things and why?

20:32 The next three questions flow together: Q3) Do you believe that belief in such things is central to the Buddhist worldview and to Buddhist practice? Q4) What are the benefits if one can take this aspect of cosmology on board? Q5) What are the possible drawbacks if one does not? 39:03 Q6) Are there potential dangers in believing in such things? 42:28 Q7) Can you tell us some stories from personal experience or things that you have heard firsthand from your own teachers and friends, which might help us to be more open to the possibilities?

Please note: This audio is ripped from a video.

Transcript

So the subject this evening,

Somebody close to me wanted me to address the subject of Devanusati,

Awareness of a recollection of subtle-bodied beings in higher,

Lower and parallel realms in a little more detail.

So there are a series of questions that were submitted pertaining to that subject.

I'll just say now it is going to be fairly meandering and long reflection.

Hopefully it will be interesting to you.

I'm sure it will be.

Those of you who are familiar with Arjunatsa's teachings and have come to listen,

I'm sure you will enjoy the reflections.

For those who may watch later,

Since it's being recorded,

The video will be time-stamped.

You will be able to see in the description which questions were answered and you can go to the subject of interest to you.

Dear Arjuna,

My question is actually a series of questions.

Could you please address the subject of devas in more depth?

Question one,

Do you believe in devas and other subtle-bodied beings in higher,

Lower and parallel realms?

That's the first question.

Second question is,

When did you first start to believe it in these things and why?

Third question,

Do you believe that belief in such things is central to the Buddhist worldview and to Buddhist practice?

Fourth question,

What are the benefits if one can take this aspect of cosmology on board?

Question five,

What are the possible drawbacks if one does not?

Question six,

Are there potential dangers in believing such things?

Question seven,

Can you tell us some stories from personal experience or things that you have heard firsthand from your own teachers and friends which might help us to be more open to the possibilities?

So there we have our evenings or morning,

Wherever you are,

Discussion subjects.

So I've also got a few of the questions here so I can refer to them.

Question one,

Do you personally believe in devas and other subtle-bodied beings in higher,

Lower and parallel realms?

Simple answer,

Yes,

I do.

Question two,

When did you first start to believe in these things and why?

So I think it is good to make it a little bit personal,

You know,

And take it out of the theory a little bit and just kind of make it share part of what it's like to be a human being and sensitive and living in this realm.

And so the earliest thing that I can remember with regards to this subject is when I was in the first year of primary school in Australia,

I was five years old and we were asked to draw a picture.

And I drew an interesting picture where I myself was halfway in the sky and there were trees and a few things down below.

And then the teacher asked me,

What is this?

My name was Brett at the time,

Young Brett.

What is this,

Brett?

And I said,

That's a picture of me floating slowly up to heaven after I die.

I said,

Which is slightly strange for a five-year-old,

But that's what I drew.

And I had it in my mind that heaven was a long,

Long way away and that it would take a really long time to float up there.

And then another year,

Next year,

I was about seven,

I got caught in this thought.

And I was in the playground and I was late going into the classroom,

That was grade three,

Because I got kind of obsessed with a certain thought.

And I was thinking,

I think I'm dead already.

I think I'm dead and I'm floating to heaven.

And I have to remember every detail of this life on my way to heaven.

And it was a very strange thought,

But there was this terrible sense of hopelessness,

Like everything that's going to happen has already happened and there's nothing I can do to stop it.

I just have to remember every single moment,

The 10,

000 joys,

10,

000 sorrows,

It's all fate,

It's all happened.

I just have to remember it on my way to heaven.

Now,

That's a strange,

I admit that that's a strange fantasy to be having as a seven-year-old.

And when I walked into the classroom and my teacher,

Mrs.

West says,

Why are you late?

I couldn't really explain that I was thinking about the fact that I was dead and floating to heaven and feeling powerless.

But anyway,

I just remember that that concept of,

I think something is probably an intuitive sense.

Some of the things in our life are fated,

Depending on which heavy karmas are going to ripen that we've sowed causes for.

So on one level,

That little boy Brett was kind of intuiting that there were some things that were going to have to be experienced that there wasn't much choice about.

But the other thing about I'm going to heaven,

The awareness of heaven and awareness of recollecting a life after death,

That may be I think,

The result of past life impressions.

And yes,

When we had Christian,

We had a Christian teacher,

Like I was naturally curious about religion and spiritual things.

And we had a Christian teacher when I was eight,

Trying to teach us some things from the Bible.

And I didn't understand certain things.

So I remember I was asking my father when I came home,

Dad,

If Jesus is God's only son,

And God created everything,

Didn't he create me?

Why aren't I God's son?

I asked him,

Why is only Jesus God's son?

I was a bit confused about that.

And my father wrote a letter and he took me out of religion class.

He wrote a letter to the principal and he said,

Please take my children out of the Bible study.

And I was a bit frustrated because actually,

I wanted to know the answer.

I wasn't just complaining.

I genuinely wanted to know the answer.

The other thing I was wondering is like,

If God's all powerful and God created the world,

How come there's poor people?

How come there's sick people?

How come there's illness?

If God is good and all powerful,

Why isn't the world a better place?

Why isn't it more fair?

So I was asking those kind of questions.

But my father took me out of religious class and I was in the library.

And so I started reading Charlie and the Chocolate Factory,

Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator,

James and the Giant Peach.

That was the extent of my religious studies as a young boy.

But in terms of,

Yeah,

I was thinking about heaven and I was thinking about God and the meaning of life and these things.

In terms of when did I really start to believe?

I think I was 14 years old.

By that time,

We'd moved to another area.

My grandmother had passed away when I was 12.

And my mother,

No earlier,

Maybe 10,

11,

I think.

And my mother had just recently been telling me when I was 14 about some not very nice stories about my grandmother,

That she didn't want to tell us when we were younger.

She was complaining about her mother a bit.

You know,

Oftentimes we have some difficult experiences with our parents and my mother was sharing some of hers.

And I think I had a couple of angry thoughts of my grandmother.

And so I woke up in my bedroom,

I think it was right on midnight.

And I saw my grandmother standing in the room as a ghost looking at me angrily.

And I could feel this icy feeling.

And I'm like,

Oh.

And I think what she was trying to communicate to me was,

Look,

Young man,

I never did anything wrong to you.

What are you doing?

What are you doing being angry at me,

Your grandmother?

I was only ever nice to you,

Which was true.

My grandmother was only ever nice to me.

I think she slapped me with her slipper once.

She was a Scottish lady.

She took off her,

I'll slap you with my slipper,

She said.

And she did once.

But other than that,

She was quite nice to me.

She used to send a birthday card with some money every year,

Christmas cards,

These things.

So she was a nice lady.

And to me.

But then that was a real,

Oh,

That really makes you think,

Right?

Like,

If my grandmother died three years ago,

But there she was standing in the room looking at me being disappointed and upset with me,

What does that mean?

So that's when I really started to ponder on this matter.

Evidently,

There's life after death.

What is a ghost?

And I think the whole worldview kind of came to me in that moment,

There was just this awareness of if there are ghosts,

There are angels.

It just for me,

It kind of ripened in that moment,

Not long afterwards,

Thinking about these things.

Well,

If there are ghosts,

If there is life after death,

There's also angels.

It was I was not I did not believe yet in hell.

And I did not believe in an all powerful created God.

But I took on the belief in ghosts and angels.

Not long after we I went to the Hare Krishna restaurant on a Sunday with my friend.

My friends,

Lana and David caught the train went into Brisbane went to the Hare Krishna's did some chanting and dancing and ate the nice vegetarian food.

So there was that receptivity to doing some devotional practice.

I couldn't at that time take on the worldview of Krishna being the divine personality of Godhead.

I,

I liked him.

But I couldn't take on the view or not.

But I did notice that when I did the mantra,

There was some rapture,

There was some pity and some Sukha when I did the Hare Krishna mantra.

But I didn't feel that it was the path.

I had a friend who was a Jehovah's Witness who wanted me to go to his church.

And I remember feeling no.

And then I ended up,

Finally,

I ended up meeting a lady in a crystal shop.

It's probably the beginning of my spiritual practice was she taught me white light meditation to lie on the bed and visualize white light coming from heaven and bathing my aura cleaning my aura.

And so that was the beginning of my meditation.

That's probably a summer to practice visualizing white light.

And so I used to do that before I went to school every day,

I'd lie on my bed as a 14,

15,

16 year old visualize white light,

And I would put myself in my white bubble.

And if I didn't do it,

I feel like something was missing in my life,

Like,

Somehow I felt dirty,

I hadn't cleaned my aura.

And but there was this kind of opening to heavenly influence.

And I feel I fit in,

According to my memory,

I've,

I remember that I felt some kind of blessing coming from outside of myself.

So whether that was psychosomatic,

Whether it's a positive affirmation,

Whatever,

I don't know.

But in terms of becoming receptive to receiving blessings from heaven,

That's when it started.

And I was quite diligent with that.

Then I,

I was wondering what to do with my life when I was 18.

17,

Actually.

And I remember walking through the Maya department stores,

The department store in Australia,

Through the book section,

I was with my girlfriend at the time,

Debra.

And there was a book on a book stand.

And it was glowing white light.

And I kind of,

I think it was called Reaching for the Other Side,

By a new age,

New age teacher called Dawn Hill.

And so this,

I said to my girlfriend at the time,

Debbie,

This book is glowing white light.

She said,

Well,

Maybe you should get it.

So yeah,

I guess so.

But that was an interesting experience.

And so I did get that book.

And this,

This lady had some faith in Jesus Christ.

And she had a prayer.

And she,

And in her book,

Reaching for the Other Side,

She said that if you wanted to find your purpose in life,

That you needed to pray for both protection and direction.

And so I began a prayer life.

And the prayer started,

I think I can still remember it was like,

In the name of Christ,

I call upon the spirits of light to stand guard at the doorway of my soul,

To protect me from the forces of darkness and deception,

And lead me on a path of love,

Light,

And truth.

So I,

I started saying that prayer.

And,

And then what's interesting is people started mentioning to me,

Ajahn Achlo,

There's this place where you can do a Vipassana 10 day retreat.

People I was working with in cafes and restaurants.

And that continued when I moved to Sydney,

People kept saying,

So I was doing the white light meditation,

And I was doing that invocation,

Protect me from the forces of darkness and deception and lead me on a path of love,

Light and truth.

And people started telling me to do 10 day retreats.

So eventually I did one.

And so I can see in my own life that prayer manifested some results.

And I could see from my own life that opening to blessings from heaven was energetically uplifting.

Then when I did that 10 day retreat,

That of course changed my life.

On the eighth day,

I experienced some deep peacefulness for a few moments.

And that was totally reorienting.

There was a sense of this is what I have been looking for,

For a long time.

This is what I want to experience more of in life,

A sense of wellbeing,

Fullness,

Clarity,

Peace.

There was a recognition on the eighth day of the Vipassana retreat that the real meaning of life is internal,

Not external.

And that's what I want to cultivate.

So that changed my life.

I was committed to meditation since that day.

And then I think about a year went past.

I was wondering what I was going to do with my life.

So many of you have heard the story that I was feeling somewhat forlorn.

I had the daily meditation practice,

But I didn't really have a meaningful lifestyle,

Fulfilling lifestyle.

So I was searching.

And I was a bit fed up.

I'd been kind of movies,

Exercise,

Going to the beach,

Nice food,

Exploring,

You know,

Refined sensuality and not so refined sensuality and finding it not rewarding.

So one day I left,

I closed the vegan cafe door where I was teaching.

And I looked to the sky and I said,

Okay,

I admit it.

I don't know the true path to happiness,

But if you show me,

So I was talking to the devas that I imagined to be in the sky,

The forces of light.

If you show me,

If you give me a sign,

I promise I will follow.

Now,

I absolutely meant this.

I was screaming it from my bone marrow,

From my every level of molecules,

Whatever.

It was a very deep aspiration.

I really meant it.

So then some interesting things started happening.

Somebody forgot the Lonely Planet book to Thailand in the restaurant that I was working.

A couple of days later,

I picked it up.

I noticed that the population of Thailand was 95% Buddhist.

I was aware that the meditation technique I was doing was Buddhist.

I was interested.

The person came back and asked for their book back.

Then it was payday the next week.

Those days we got a cash in an envelope.

I opened my wallet.

I noticed a strange coin.

I asked my friend,

What's that?

She said,

That's Thai baht.

When I saw that,

These little chedis,

The king of Thailand,

The hair on my arm went up and I got that feeling.

And then many of you have heard the story before.

I used to clean the fryer once a week.

I used to have to change the oil.

There was a German fryer,

It was a Japanese inspired restaurant.

There was a galvanized joint,

Galvanized iron joint I had to put on a pipe.

I hadn't noticed it before.

I'd worked in this place for over a year.

There was one word on the pipe.

The pipe said Thailand.

Then I said,

Okay,

Within 10 weeks,

I'm going to Thailand.

And I did.

So I have that experience from myself.

In my own experience,

I made a prayer,

Skyward,

Asking for subtle body beings in parallel or higher realms to help me.

And as far as I can see,

They manifested signs.

I think it was four or five days before I left the restaurant,

A woman walked in to the restaurant.

She was looking for a job.

She was a Canadian backpacker.

And I said,

Well,

Maybe there is a job because I'm leaving.

She asked,

Where are you going?

I said,

I'm going to Thailand.

She said,

I came from Thailand yesterday.

And she asked me why I'm going to Thailand.

And I said,

I'm interested in meditation.

I like the beach.

And she said,

I know where there's a meditation center on a tropical island with a view of the beach.

So she walked into the restaurant that I was working at.

And I said,

Please write down the address.

And so for me,

Again,

I could see,

You know,

There was a prayer for direction and clarity.

This person walked into the restaurant and gave me the address.

In those days,

We did not have a Google search engine.

I could not search meditation centers in Thailand.

One had to rely on people to talk to people.

And so I ended up spending five out of nine months at that meditation center.

And that kind of really helped me understand and learn different Buddhist methods.

They were teaching the teachers there,

Stephen Rosemary Weissman.

So that's another bit of good fortune.

Western teachers living in Thailand,

Teaching backpackers back in the day.

I was tremendously fortunate to find them.

And they presented a retreat that included metta meditation,

Mindfulness of death meditation,

Contemplation of the law of karma,

Other aspects of Buddhist practice that were not in the vipassana retreat,

Which was one method based.

So that was very helpful.

And then finally,

A gentleman came through.

I was wondering what to do with my life.

And gentleman came through and told me about Wat Pah Nanachat,

A place where English speaking people could go forth as monks and study Buddhism.

And so I did not feel necessarily that I was the best candidate to be a monk.

There are a lot of rules,

A lot of discipline.

But when I went there and I saw,

I went to Wat Nanachat and I saw there was a gradual training,

Taking eight precepts,

Staying as an anagarika postulant for six months.

Then if you felt confident to continue becoming a samanera,

10 precept,

Novice monk.

And then after that,

After 18 months,

Becoming a bhikkhu for a minimum of five years.

So I thought,

Okay,

Well,

I'll try.

Because on an intuitive level,

It felt like the right place.

I felt like I was in the right place.

For the first time in my life,

I felt this is actually where I should be,

Even though it was difficult.

On a deep intuitive level,

I knew I was where I needed to be.

So you can see,

I've been rambling a bit,

But you can see that my own prayer life,

My own request for clarity and guidance did manifest as actual signs and helpful people with clear directions.

And I found a place I wanted to be,

Doing what I wanted to do.

So that's the foundation of why I believe in beings in parallel realms.

That would have been my grandmother,

The ghost.

Beings in higher realms,

That's the devas who sent the signs and sent the person to the cafe and the person to the meditation center who told me about the international forest monastery.

So I had that,

Before I was a monk,

I had those experiences.

Do I believe that belief in such a thing is central to the Buddhist worldview and to Buddhist practice?

So I'll answer that next.

When you study the first sermon,

Lord Buddha has his insights into the Four Noble Truths.

There is suffering,

There's a cause of suffering.

The cause of suffering,

Suffering can be overcome.

And then there's a path to abandoning the causes of suffering that leads to the cessation of suffering.

Lord Buddha mentions the Eightfold Path as the path that one cultivates to realize liberation.

In the very same teaching,

At the end,

It is stated,

This dharma wheel that has been set in motion in the world cannot be stopped by any brahman or deva or mara.

So right there in the very first sermon,

Next to the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path,

You have the devas and you have mara.

Some people like to come up with a theory that all of the stuff about cosmology was added later.

The Buddha didn't teach that.

Some people actually say this,

And I would say that this is not true.

And one needs to look at any Sutapitaka and it's there.

When we look at the Buddha's life story,

Many,

Many things.

When he descends from heaven is how his birth story begins with him descending from Tushita heaven into his mother's womb,

Mindful and fully aware.

It's one of the wonderful and marvelous qualities of a Buddha is that when they descend and they enter a womb,

They are mindful and fully aware.

That is not always the case for worldly beings.

Clouded and dull,

Pushed around by karma,

But the bodhisattva was mindful and fully aware as he descended into the womb.

So right there at the very beginning,

Some people,

And then when he's born,

The celestial divine kings,

The Chathur Maharaja attend to him and the Nagas bathe him with a warm stream of water and a cool stream of water.

So you have right at the beginning.

Now,

Some people will say that's commentarial.

That's not the Sutapitaka.

But the Dhammacakka Sutta is definitely the Sutapitaka.

Some people say the people who study the traditional early Buddhist texts that have more faith in those,

Suppose people have more faith in the Sutta Nipata than they have the Digha Nikaya.

Some people feel that the Digha Nikaya,

The long discourses were elaborated upon.

Maybe there was some artistic license.

If that's the case,

When you go to the Sutta Nipata,

If I remember correctly,

One of the first suttas in the Sutta Nipata starts with the Buddha is walking somewhere and a Yaka,

That's a kind of a demonic entity or a giant,

An ogre,

You might say,

In a parallel realm,

Insults him.

He says,

Hey,

Shaven head,

Answer this question,

Or I'll throw you to the other side of the Ganges River.

And the Buddha's answer was really cool in several respects.

Really cool in as much as he stayed cool,

Like he didn't say.

Later on,

He forbade the monks from teaching people.

If people are rude to you,

He said you shouldn't teach them.

People should show respect to Dhamma to be receptive.

But he himself on that occasion did try to teach the Yaka.

And the other part that was cool was he said,

Yaka,

I can't see anyone in the whole conditioned universe who could possibly do that to the Tathagata.

It's a pretty cool statement.

No one's throwing me over the other side of the Ganges.

But anyway,

Ask your question.

And so he asked the question and the Buddha answers the question and the Yaka corrects his wrong view and the Yaka asked to go forth as the Buddha's follower until his final breath.

So there in one of the earliest texts,

You have mention of the Buddha being aware of and teaching beings in parallel realms.

When we chant the praises to the Buddha,

Dharma and Sangha,

We have the Buddha impeccable in conduct and understanding,

Awake,

Aware,

Fully mindful,

Knower of the world's,

Not the world,

Teacher of gods and humans.

This when we chant the praises to the Buddha,

We recollect this,

The Buddha.

There are examples where Sakadeva Raja,

The king of heaven from Tushita,

Comes and pays respects to the Buddha and the Buddha teaches him and apparently he attains the stream entry.

And I'm pretty sure that's Sutta Pitika as well.

In the suttas,

The Buddha is teaching Devas.

Devas are also attaining in those suttas.

So we have that mention of the,

But again,

Back to the first sermon.

When the Buddha had set in course the wheel of Dhamma,

Anya Kondanya became a stream enterer.

There was a flash of light that filled the universe.

The Bhūma Devas rejoiced.

When the Bhūma Devas rejoiced and claimed the Dhamma wheel has been set in motion,

The Devas of the realm of four kings rejoiced.

When the Devas of the realm of four kings rejoiced,

The Devas of Dāvatīṁsa rejoiced.

When the Devas of Dāvatīṁsa rejoiced,

The Yama Devas rejoiced.

When the Yama Devas rejoiced,

The Tushita Devas rejoiced.

When the Tushita Devas rejoiced,

The Nirmārātī,

When the Nirmārātī,

The Paranirmārātī,

When the Paranirmārātī,

The Brahma Devas.

And from the earthbound Devas to the most subtle-bodied Brahma Devas rejoiced at the sending forth of the Dhamma wheel.

So it's right there.

Is it central?

So I don't think it's central.

The Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path is central.

That's the content of the Sutta.

But it's there.

And so I don't think we should dismiss it.

And I think it's there for a reason.

So question four,

What are the benefits if one can take this aspect of cosmology on board?

What are the possible benefits if we take it on board?

And then also it's linked to what are the dangers as well of not taking it on board.

One of,

There are many benefits.

So when Lord Buddha gave instructions about how one practices Devanusati,

Recollecting the virtue of the Devas,

He says that when one thinks of Devas with affection,

One becomes known to the Devas and the Devas develop affection for you as well.

When one is mindful of Devas,

Dedicates merit to Devas,

Spreads metta to Devas,

Appreciates Devas for their,

So what does Deva?

Devata in Pali means radiant being.

So that's a being who,

If someone has a divine eye,

Is radiant.

So if one spreads loving kindness to Devas in the former Devas,

Devas close to the earth,

Devas in the realm of four kings,

Et cetera,

They become aware of you and they take care of you.

The benefits of Devanusati is that Devas will take care of one.

Another possible benefit,

Suppose you're living in a degenerating age,

And I would suspect that we are by the amount of famine and war and disease and conflict that we see.

If the most suitable rebirth next time would be a Deva one,

If the human realm is becoming more and more dangerous to be incarnated in,

And the likelihood of virtue degenerating and making a heavy obstructive karma for oneself,

If one gets born as a human,

If one is open to the possibility that there are Deva realms,

Then that increases the likelihood of being able to go to one.

If you don't believe that they exist at all,

It may be the case that when you die,

You won't be mindful of them,

You won't see them,

You've closed the door to them,

I don't believe that.

But if you can just be open to the possibility,

I would say probability,

Then it's much more likely.

Suppose a Deva comes and tries to help you when you're dying to take you to an auspicious rebirth,

And you're like,

I don't believe in Devas.

So wait,

You're going to be wandering around trying to find an auspicious or fortunate usable human birth,

And it might be very difficult.

So,

Possible benefits,

Some blessings,

Some protection,

Some help in the intermediate state when you die.

I think it's also good to take on,

When we read the great,

When we read,

If we read some of the life stories of beings that we feel have some faith for arahants in recent history.

So when you have the Atanlida Madara,

Or Lumpur Tej,

Or Lumpur Man,

In all of these stories of great masters from the last century,

There is always mention of Devas.

So they practiced heroically,

The focus of their practice was destroying the Kilesas,

That's what they were focused on.

And there's stories about the existence of Devas.

Lumpur Man mentioned that German Devas would come and listen to,

Have dharma discussions with him,

And he appreciated their sincere interest in wisdom.

Devas from Germany.

What are the dangers of not believing in them?

So the dangers of not believing in them is,

I want to say one more thing at first about the Buddha himself,

In terms of my belief,

My conviction.

How is the Buddha,

How does the Buddha come to have superior faculties,

So that he can penetrate ultimate truth that most people cannot see,

And uproot greed,

Hatred,

And delusion,

And destroy that from his mind,

And be liberated from the power of that?

How does he come to have higher,

More powerful,

More refined faculties than everyone else?

That's where rebirth becomes kind of obvious to me.

It's something that was cultivated over a long time.

And then,

For me,

It's also kind of obvious,

Sometimes as a human,

Sometimes as a Deva.

And again,

In the Sutta Pitika,

Not always commentarial,

The Buddha does sometimes make reference to his past lives as an animal,

As a Deva.

Similarly,

The great disciples.

Maha Moggallana mentions having been Mara in a past life,

The lord of the Kilesas.

So cosmology is there.

We have to focus on cultivating the four foundations of mindfulness,

That's what's going to help us get liberated.

We have to develop insight into the Four Noble Truths,

Absolutely.

But,

When Lord Buddha describes Right View,

The first factor in the Eightfold Path,

The Eightfold Path being that which leads us to liberation,

Let's call it Skillful View,

Not necessarily Right View,

You can call it Skillful View.

He does say that belief in past lives,

And future lives,

And parallel,

And higher,

And lower realms,

Is a part of Skillful View.

So,

The Buddha that's liberated from all suffering and ended samsara,

His attachment to it,

His experience within it,

He's saying the cosmology is real.

On a conventional reality level,

The cosmology is real.

Why is it skillful to be aware of that?

Why is it skillful to take that on?

Well,

Fear of karmic consequences,

When you think you're doing something unskillful,

But also confidence and joy in the benefit of doing skillful things.

Lord Buddha describes his own teachings as leading to heaven and beyond.

That's how the Buddha describes his own teachings.

Skillful actions,

Being ethical,

Being generous,

Being virtuous,

Cultivating loving-kindness,

Etc.

,

It leads to heaven.

There are other examples where the Buddha says he knows of no other quality more conducive to heavenly rebirth than the cultivation of loving-kindness.

There are many,

Many,

Many suttas where the Buddha,

There are other occasions where people come and ask,

Where was this person reborn?

Where was that person reborn?

And the Buddha can see,

Well,

That one was an anagami,

They're a non-returner,

They're in their pure abodes.

Well,

That one developed faith,

But they weren't enlightened,

They were reborn in Tao Te Ching.

There are many occasions where the Buddha talks about the rebirth of his followers and whether they had attained what realm they were born in.

So,

It's literally everywhere.

What are the dangers of not believing it?

That's an interesting question.

I think the value of being open to it is,

I can ask you a question.

How are you going to have an insight?

How are you going to experience and penetrate into a more subtle reality if you only believe things that you can see with your coarse eyes and hear with your coarse ears?

If there's some part of your mind which is like,

I don't believe it because I can't see it.

So,

Modern scientists know what we're aware of in the visual spectrum,

How many dimensions there are,

Like how much of our brain we use.

It all points to the fact that we use a small part of our brain,

We're aware of a very small part of reality,

There are other dimensions.

Quantum physics,

All of these things point to this for people who want to be scientific about it.

But if you have the basic commitment to only believing things that you can see with your coarse eyes and hear with your coarse ears and think with your coarse thinking,

That will inhibit the likelihood of you having a penetrative insight into a more subtle reality.

And I would also attest that I would suggest that there's some arrogance there.

It's like,

I don't believe this because I can't see it.

It's not very humble.

I would suggest that it's better to say,

I don't know,

But I'm open to it.

Since the people who seem to be Arahants have experience of these things and mention it,

Since Lord Buddha says that belief in these things is skillful,

I'm going to at least be open to the possibility and be humble about the fact that our coarse eyes and coarse ears can't see everything that's out there.

As a bhikkhu who has monk's rules,

I can't talk too much about my own experience or my teacher's experience,

But how to say this?

I've been doing this for 30 years,

Right?

I know a lot of people and I can say with great confidence that the practitioners who I have most confidence in see and have conversations with the devas,

Including Indra,

Sakadeva Raja,

Including Maitreya,

The future Buddha.

So if you're going to put forth all this effort to develop first,

Second,

Third,

Fourth jhanas,

Get some of the psychic powers,

Obviously some people who practice very hard,

Very sincerely and get some good results,

Develop more subtle faculties and they can see more with their eyes than we can see with us.

Let's say that way.

And they can hear more with their ears than we can hear with ours.

And I have great confidence,

I know people who I trust,

Who have conversations with Indra and have conversations with Maitreya,

And who can also see the destination of their students when they pass away.

So I know some practitioners with a lot of metta who help people in the intermediate state to attain a more auspicious rebirth.

So I have to be careful not to mention names,

But I'm telling you,

I know some very gifted practitioners who help a lot of beings on many levels in very wonderful ways.

And just looking at my list of questions here.

What are the benefits if one can take this aspect of cosmology on?

Yes.

What are the possible drawbacks?

I've mentioned that.

Six.

Are there potential dangers in believing such things?

There are.

So this is one of the reasons I think some people sometimes don't like to talk about it.

People can get overly fascinated on these things in a way which is not skillful.

People can sometimes think,

You know,

They have such faith,

And then they start inferring too much.

That was a deva,

That was a naga,

That was a ghost.

Like a person can get obsessed with it,

Overly fascinated with it,

And their faith in it can affect their perception,

And it may not be what they're thinking.

So that's a danger.

So one has to be sensible.

One doesn't abandon one's common sense.

One continues to bring the Ajahn Chah,

My near,

My near,

Not sure,

Not sure,

To one's experience.

For the practitioners who see these things with clarity and can actually have conversations with deities,

Those people have very,

Very stable minds,

Very,

Very solid,

Stable meditation.

And it's after coming out of the jhanic state,

In the state of upajara samadhi,

That's the kind of stability that comes from the samadhi.

When they're in what's called neighborhood concentration,

That's when they're able to hold the awareness of the beings in more subtle realms and have actual conversations.

So unless one has really stable samadhi,

Then you don't have to believe that every intuition,

Or every dream,

Or every little bit of subtle perception is really a deva,

Or they're really talking to you,

Etc.

But you're open to the possibility.

So for myself,

If I have like visions in dreams or something like that,

Or see some,

Appear to see some subtle body beings in dreamlike states,

For myself,

I've trained myself to take it on as a one more piece of information.

I don't like decide that because I had that dream,

I saw that sign,

Or I saw this in my dream,

That I'm absolutely going to believe that 100%.

I take it on as another piece of information that I weigh with my other ordinary senses.

And with the wisdom I've cultivated from three decades of practice,

And with consultation with my wise teachers,

I take it on as another piece of information.

So there are dangers becoming kind of paranoid.

Some people get a bit paranoid about this being following me that wants to harm me,

Or there's ghosts,

Or when people get a bit sensitive.

And sometimes there's a period of time where the mind opens to these things a little bit,

And there's kind of a,

One has to kind of learn how to function with a bit more sensitivity.

And if you have wise companions,

You can manage it.

But I think the benefits of being receptive and open to blessings of Devas,

And to being open to the possibility of having a heavenly rebirth along your own process towards enlightenment,

Being receptive to it,

I think outweighs the potential dangers.

The last one was,

Do I have any stories,

Things that I've heard from my own teachers and friends,

Which might help us to be more open to the possibilities?

Okay,

So a few more stories.

When I was on Tudung,

After my fifth panca,

Monks after their fifth panca are allowed to go wandering on their own.

And I remember I was trying to do Buddha was walking alongside the road,

Buddha with my footsteps,

Buddha,

Buddha,

Buddha was very,

Very hot.

And every now and then a Pepsi truck would go by.

And my mind started thinking,

I want a Pepsi,

I want a Pepsi and Buddha became replaced with Pepsi,

Pepsi,

Pepsi.

And I got so sick of my mind,

I get a bit playful,

Kind of talking to yourself a bit because you're alone.

And I remember one afternoon,

I was thinking,

Pepsi,

Pepsi.

I don't want a Pepsi anyway.

Actually,

I want a Fanta.

I said to myself,

Orange Fanta.

And then I'm like,

Where do I want to sleep tonight in a field,

In a forest,

In a monastery?

And I'm like,

No,

I want to sleep in a little shack in a field.

I was just kind of playing with,

I was being ridiculous with my own,

With my own kind of preferences.

Like,

Obviously,

I was going to sleep when I was tired enough,

At whatever I came to,

During that period of seven week period of wandering.

Anyway,

A man came up to me and said,

Can I please carry your bags?

I said,

Yeah.

He said he used to be a monk with Ajahn Chah for one rainy season.

He wanted to carry my bags.

And he said,

Can I invite you to spend the night in my shack in my field?

And then he called out to his son,

He says,

Buy some Fanta,

Orange Fanta,

A big bottle.

How is that possible?

How is that possible?

I would say the most logical for me,

The most logical assumption would be that the Deva said to that guy,

The monk's coming,

Go out and meet him.

Invite him to stay in your shack in the field and get him some Fanta.

Now,

The monks in Ubon Ratchathani and Yasuton,

Where I were walking,

Probably like the Devas in that part of Thailand,

I would assume,

Really like forest monks.

They are Buddhist.

They were probably born as Devas because of supporting monks and nuns.

So they were listening in.

That's something terrible to confess.

In those days,

A lot of monks smoked.

And they were going to this monastery quite tired,

Wash my clothes,

Have a shower,

And there was no sweet drinks,

No coffee,

No tea,

But there was a bag of roll your own cigarettes on the table,

Right?

So I started,

You know,

I started experimenting with roll your own and have a cigarette.

And before people come in the comments,

These monks smoking terrible,

Terrible,

Just keep in mind that Lumpur monks smoked,

So did Lungta Mahabua,

So did Ajahn Chah.

So it was pretty common among the forest monks of the recent generations to smoke cigarettes.

So,

You know,

It was like,

I was young,

I was out on the road,

Just spreading my wings,

Roll one,

Have a try,

Whatever.

So I worked out soon enough that I had a favorite brand.

And my favorite brand was called Sai Fon,

Which means falling rain.

It was a menthol,

Menthol cigarettes.

Occasionally,

The monks had a packet of cigarettes,

And I tried some and I realized,

I like the menthol ones.

And so,

But I realized,

I also soon realized that my practice was degenerating,

Because when I was walking on the hot road or the railway tracks,

And I was thinking,

Oh,

I'm getting a bit agitated,

I should go and meditate under a tree.

What happened was when I'd taken up this practice of smoking,

I noticed that I thought instead of that,

I'm tired,

Have a cigarette,

I'm hungry,

Have a cigarette.

And the thought go and meditate was happening less,

But the thought have a cigarette was happening more.

And so I soon realized this isn't good.

This isn't helping me.

So I gave up.

But as it happened,

One day I was walking,

And I was thinking,

I know I've given up.

I know I shouldn't do it.

But I just want one.

One siphon falling rain menthol cigarette.

So I crossed the road and kept walking,

Looking downward,

Two meters in front of you,

Like the Buddha says monks should should walk without eyes downcast two meters ahead.

And what was two meters ahead on the road right in front of me?

One menthol cigarette in the brand that I liked,

Perfectly clean was just sitting in the road right in front of my feet.

How is that possible?

I'm a bhikkhu.

I can't lie.

I'm not lying to you.

This really happened.

In fact,

It happened twice.

And both times,

It was the brand that I liked.

It really happened.

I didn't want coke that day.

I wanted Fanta.

I got Alita.

I gave up smoking,

But I just wanted one.

I got my favorite type.

I,

To this day,

Don't know how the devas do it.

I don't know how they manifest the cigarette.

Do they go and ask someone?

Does this monkey just want one?

Can I borrow one?

I don't know how it works.

But what I do know is that there was a menthol cigarette right in front of my feet,

And I had it,

And it was great.

I kept walking,

And I was grateful to whoever arranged it.

So these are the kind of stories I can tell you,

Because these are not monks.

We have to be a bit careful about our inner experiences,

But I can tell you about outer experiences which allude to.

But as I've mentioned,

If a person practices very sincerely,

At a certain point,

They may begin to see things sometimes.

That's probably how the divine eye begins,

And then mastery of the divine eye is a different thing.

People will be familiar with the under the Bodhi tree.

This one is pretty dramatic.

I'll tell it because it kind of makes a point.

I had a,

You know,

People go a bit crazy about wanting a Bodhi leaf from the Bodhi tree.

And I'm very fortunate I get to go to Bhogai with some frequency.

I'm hoping to go again in just a few weeks.

And I'd made a vow.

I can't remember if I wanted 100 or 200 or 300.

I think was 300.

I wanted 300 Bodhi leaves to put in the stupa,

The chedi that we were making at Anandagiri.

And I'd made that vow.

During this six weeks in Bhogai,

May I be able to collect 300 Bodhi leaves.

Now that sounds a bit greedy.

Most people would be content with one.

But keeping in mind,

I was making a chedi for the benefit of all beings.

So I wanted 300.

At one day,

A pigeon came and started like plucking slightly yellowing leaves from the Bodhi tree and ostensibly maybe making a nest above where I was sitting.

But Bodhi trees are kind of round shaped and they don't work for making nests.

So what happened is the Bodhi leaf rolled down and fell on my lap.

And then he went and got another one.

It rolled down and fell on my lap.

This happened 20 times.

We're talking 20 Bodhi leaves fell in my lap.

Now what's interesting is then I needed to go to the bathroom.

So I paid my respects to the Bodhi tree and I walked to the bathroom.

Apparently the bird flew away.

I came back from going to the bathroom.

I bowed.

The bird came back.

The bird got another Bodhi leaf and another Bodhi leaf and another Bodhi leaf.

And people around me were getting a bit excited because they wanted Bodhi leaves too.

And I was trying to meditate and I was actually getting a bit agitated because I can't quite relax because I have to keep catching these Bodhi leaves.

But I did make the vow and now I've got to collect them.

And there was this hand was coming over me.

Someone was trying to grab one of my Bodhi leaves and I was like,

Nope,

I will share these Bodhi leaves once I've collected all of the ones that I want to.

Even more dramatic than this.

And remember,

I'm a Bhikkhu,

I cannot lie.

I'm telling you every word I'm saying is true.

One of my students,

Long-time students,

Jintana,

Was helping the monastery to buy some land.

We had heard that someone was going to develop a resort,

Buy land right next to the women's section where the Mechis are.

They were going to have to drive through the women's section.

That would have meant in Thailand resorts means karaoke.

Listening to drunk people singing is not very inspiring.

But that was going to become part of our life.

It is part of our life now,

But occasionally,

But it would have been part of our life more.

And so we decided to try to buy that land.

It was a bit expensive.

Jintana decided to offer about one third of the price.

I said to her,

Please make your offering under the Bodhi tree.

Make your pledge under the Bodhi tree because I want you to get as much merit as possible.

And I want you to offer it to the Buddhas of the past,

The present and the future for the longevity of the Sāsana.

So get the most merit by having the purest aspiration.

So the whistle blew.

It was 8.

45.

It was time to leave.

Jintana was there.

I led her in the,

In the,

She repeated after me,

I offer this land to the Sāsana,

Past,

Present and future,

Of the eight directions.

May the Sāsana endure long.

And then for her own benefit,

Due to this merit,

May I always meet with Buddhas,

Buddhas teachings,

Well-practiced monks and nuns.

May I always have opportunities to practice.

I led her in that aspiration.

And the last part I said was,

And may the devas of the Bodhi tree rejoice.

At this stage,

I think I'd gathered about 100 Bodhi leaves.

This was in the period where I was trying to get 300.

I chanted the blessing.

Halfway through the blessing,

A gust of wind came through.

It was perfectly still.

A gust of wind came through that was so,

I don't know what to say,

Gusty,

That there was a rain of Bodhi leaves.

And then another one came and everyone had gone.

So they were like all ours.

Another gust of wind came and Bodhi leaves fell.

Another gust of wind came and Bodhi leaves fell.

And we were jumping around like we won the lottery and gathering all these Bodhi leaves before the gods chased us away.

And we each left with 100 each in a bag,

Within a five minute period.

So I had just asked,

May the devas of the Bodhi tree rejoice.

And five minutes after that,

Each of us had 100 Bodhi leaves.

I would assume that the devas of the Bodhi tree rejoiced.

So anyway,

I've been going on for a while and I can see that most of you are still here and some of you are smiling.

So I hope that something I said may have been helpful to you.

Let me reiterate,

Focus on cultivating the four foundations of mindfulness.

Awareness of the body is just a body.

Feelings as feelings.

Thoughts as thoughts.

Aspiring to realize ultimate truth,

Which is not self.

At the same time,

Being truthful about how conventional reality works.

There is a past,

There is a present,

There is a future if you're not enlightened.

Karma is real.

There are consequences to karma.

Certain aspects of views are skillful.

And then make the aspiration to be liberated according to your aspiration.

Until then,

May you be safe within samsara.

May you be in the most opportune and auspicious place to continue to practice towards your liberation.

I hope that something I've shared may be helpful to you.

Reviews

You da baddest

Thank you for sharing this information with us, very enlightening

Aligning with the 2nd noble truth, I only want more. Thank you do much, dear Ajahn Achalo

It was lovely to hear those stories again Ajahn 🪷 Thankyou 🙏

It was a interesting presentation

for a non buddhist, this presents lots to consider.

Thank you! 🙏🏻🍃

Always love to listen to your experiences - thanks for sharing 🙏❤️

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

ajahn, it’s been a minute since we connected. you inspire me. thank you so much.

Thank you very much 🙏

Dear Venerable,
This is was very inspiring and thought provoking. Being a hindu with too many gods, i have always been a little averse. But i will be open to the possibility. I really will. Thank you for this wonderful talk.
With respect,
Shagun

Fascinating stories. Good for practicing epistemological humility. 😉🙏

Thank you, Ajahn. 🙏😌
I love your talks. They're so helpful.
Blessings to you. ❤️

Love Ajahn’s stories! A master communicator, who is warm, genuine, humorous, wise 🙏