Exploring The Concept Of Empathy During Conflict

Empathy can seem like an obvious skill we should all know right? If you are anything like me, you were conditioned to mix empathy with an agreement in conflict. True empathy does not require you agree with the other person. It is possible to validate someone's experience while still disagreeing... let's explore! Join Lydia and some wonderful guests in this talk.

Transcript

Hello and welcome.

I wanted to do a little talk today on empathy,

Specifically empathy in the context of conflict.

I had a recent experience with someone that I really care about where we were in a conflict and both myself and the other person were struggling to find empathy because the conflict happened because there was unresolved pain on both sides where we felt,

I think both of us felt,

And I'll speak to my experience mostly,

Where I had felt maybe hurt or,

Betrayed is a strong word,

But let's just say hurt in the past by this person in a way where we weren't able to resolve the situation.

So it was kind of lingering hurt and there was some vulnerability and insecurity that kind of came from that.

And this person,

Again,

Because there's been some unresolved things between us,

They felt more defensive and protective of their perspective and wanted the conversation to go more like logical and my desire was for the conversation to have more of an emotional connection.

And it felt like there was an impasse and it was discouraging to both of us.

And at the same time,

Because of the level of respect and connection we've had for each other for a few years now at this point,

We both had a desire to see if there was a potential solution or some sort of resolution where maybe we could come to some feeling of feeling better,

Essentially,

Also knowing that some of these issues ran deep and they weren't necessarily going to be solved overnight.

And one of the feelings that I had and expressed to this person in the initial conflict was it doesn't feel like you are expressing any empathy for me.

I realized I was also struggling to have empathy for the person.

And so we did we had a wise decision where we said,

You know,

Let's give each other some time to process and like chill out a little bit because it was it was very escalating to both of our nervous systems,

Which means I was for me,

I was very heightened and had a lot of intense emotion happening.

And I know from personal experience that the more intensity I have in my emotion,

The less I can,

The less connected I am to my own center and my own wisdom,

And the less connected I am to my capacity to speak from that place.

And so we took,

I think,

Like a day,

Maybe it wasn't even that long,

Like 24 hours to just,

You know,

Go back to life,

Keep doing stuff and process a little bit in the background.

And I am an embodiment coach.

And I really believe in,

You know,

If you provide a service to others that you receive the service yourself.

So I work with coaches and therapists for myself personally,

So that I can provide clear and valuable space to my clients.

And so within that 24 hours,

I talked with my,

My therapist who also does coaching with me.

And,

And then I might have looked up a couple things because I'm the researcher type to research different things about conflict and etc.

It's also part of my business.

And so I was processing what,

What does empathy look like,

And I had come to the realization in this conflict,

That we were both afraid of agreeing with the other person because we didn't want to be wrong.

And,

And that was a common dynamic in my childhood growing up.

I was one of five siblings,

And it was very strict that we never like hit or fight physically.

And so we all got really good at verbal fighting and quick being quicker to the,

To the bat of who could like hurt each other more with words,

You know,

Which obviously it was not ideal and equally as detrimental.

And one of the things in conflicts growing up was that it was all always about who was right.

And the person who ultimately needed to apologize was the one who ended up being wrong.

And I don't know where exactly that came from.

I'm not,

I don't think my parents consciously made those decisions.

It could have been their pattern of their childhood,

Whatever.

It doesn't really matter where it's from.

That was a pattern.

So as an adult,

Sometimes in interpersonal relationships,

I come back into that default pattern of,

I just want to be right.

But when I go deeper into my own experience,

It's not even really that I want to be right.

I want to be understood.

And I want my point to be valid.

Even if the other person doesn't necessarily agree,

I want to feel,

And this is actually a very common need.

It's been researched in behavioral psychology in trauma therapies,

Et cetera.

And there's actually a fantastic book that actually talks about this concept.

The author is Chris Voss and the book has never split the difference and it's about negotiating.

And one of the things he said is the number one human,

Our number one human need is to be seen and understood.

And so ever since I read that book,

I think it was four years ago now,

I've looked for that and I've seen that over and over,

Especially in conflict.

And what's interesting,

And one of the points he made in this book,

Which has had a major influence in my life ever since,

Is that most of us don't actually need to be agreed with.

As soon as we feel validated and understood,

Our defense is lower and we can extend the same to others.

And he was a retired FBI hostage negotiator.

So he wasn't necessarily talking about just life in general.

I mean,

He was,

But he was saying even in the situations of working with terrorists and hostage takers,

When the FBI negotiators could extend validation and understanding of the perpetrators,

They would let down their guard and give up all their needs and requests in the situation.

And it's a really cool book.

I highly recommend it.

And of course books I recommend,

I don't necessarily say I agree philosophically with every single thing about the book,

But it was a very thought provoking,

I would even go as far as to say as life changing because some of the concepts were so simple and effective that you could use same day and shift dynamics in your relationships.

So from then on,

I've looked for in my relationships and just in my own understanding and education as an embodiment coach and somatic educator and yoga teacher,

Massage teacher,

Et cetera,

This dynamic of do we actually want to be right or is the underlying need to be right?

Does that come from validation and understanding from that need?

And so in this particular conflict that I was recently in,

I decided I have an idea.

Like I came up with this idea.

I processed,

I had processed it a little bit with the therapist I seen and the therapist actually made a brilliant observation and they said,

You know,

When when two ideas like that are coupled together.

So the idea of empathy and the idea of being right when you start uncoupling them,

When you start separating these in your life,

It can feel very ungrounding and unnerving because your nervous system has felt safer keeping these two ideas together.

So he brought in this perspective that it's going to be normal if it feels risky to share empathy with someone even if you don't agree with them.

And I love that perspective because it's like an extension of grace to offer ourselves.

It's that kind of when we move out of our comfort zones,

It can feel scary.

So moving out of the comfort zone in any area,

Especially in relationships,

Is an act of courage.

And it's an act of vulnerability and strength,

Actually,

When we move into vulnerability and and meet fear with courageousness.

That's beautiful.

That's that's strength.

So we had decided to come back on the phone at a certain time and talk this person in my life and I,

I invited an idea.

I was like,

So I have an idea.

Let me know if you want to do it or not.

And they were like,

OK.

And so I was like.

OK.

So it seems like both of us really want to be right and we're afraid of being we're not afraid.

We both want to be right.

But can we just in this conversation right now,

We've kind of both spoken our piece.

We both said all the details of why we think our perspective is more true than the other.

And we both defended our sides and shared why we're hurt by the other person.

Kind of what if right now,

Instead of going back to that conversation,

We both practiced and knowing it was a practice.

So it's OK if we don't do it perfectly,

But practiced showing empathy for the other person and as much as we can not get defensive about it.

And I was like,

I'll go first because I'm the one that came up with this idea.

And then you can kind of see how it feels and decide if you want to do it back.

And so the focus I took was seeing if I could.

And I and I shared I was like,

I feel vulnerable because me sharing empathy and explaining how I think it might have felt to come from your side doesn't necessarily mean I agree with this.

I'm trying to help you understand that I think I get it from your perspective.

And so because I felt vulnerable and it was a tough thing to do,

It's very tough to do something you're not as used to in this specific case because I've been able to do this and other relationships.

Right.

So sometimes we're better at certain skills or tools with certain people.

But this is a connection and relationship that really matters to me in my life.

And so it was worth it.

Right.

So I was able to first say,

You know,

I feel vulnerable just as much as you probably will doing this.

I want to try to extend empathy and grace to you so that you can see how it feels.

And I also want you to know that I I kind of struggled to do this because I don't necessarily think you're right and I'm wrong.

And I still feel like my points were valid.

And,

You know,

For for for better or for worse,

That was me being authentic to who I was in that moment with this person.

And they were very gracious and were able to listen.

And so I went into this is where I think you were coming from.

This is how it must have felt to be receiving my reaction and my emotion at the time.

And I can see how you might have felt this way and or I can see how you might have come to this perspective based on what I know of you based on blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And then I asked how they felt and they're like,

I actually do feel like you really understand me and understood what I was saying.

And then they clarified a few things where I was maybe a little off in my understanding.

And I was like,

How does that feel that you,

You know,

You feel like I understand you?

They're like,

Actually,

It feels better.

And so then I asked,

You know,

Are you open to to doing the same thing for me?

And seeing if you can try empathizing with my perspective.

And they were like,

Yeah,

Give me some time.

So we yet again made a wise decision because I had had time to do this.

And so as someone who likes to deal with things right away,

I extended I extended grace and return to this person and let them have like an hour or two to kind of process for themselves how they could empathize with my situation that we got up back on the phone like an hour or two later.

And,

And they,

They tried the same thing,

You know,

Acknowledging I want,

I'm going to try empathizing with you.

It doesn't necessarily mean I agree,

But I want to see if I can understand your side.

And it was really,

I want to say it was a very cool experience.

Obviously we're both human of us are perfect and both of us,

You know,

Kind of did it in a slightly messy way.

But it was,

It was a very healing experience because,

And it showed,

It showed a lot of courageousness on both our parts and courageousness in the friendship that we had because we were willing to both risk being vulnerable and empathize and connect to the other person emotionally,

Even though we didn't agree with certain things and we didn't even know what the outcome would be afterwards.

But what was so cool about practicing empathy with the understanding that we still didn't have to agree with each other afterwards,

It almost like popped the bubble of the emotional pain that we had experienced from each other.

And,

And it showed so much about the proof of the fact that our needs as humans is so much about being validated and understood more so than agreed with because in the experience of being validated and understood,

Both of our defenses came down.

We felt safer with each other.

We were able to then spend time the next day and have this not be an issue at all while also knowing from a healthy perspective,

We were both going to continue processing the stuff that was unresolved with a therapist or a coach or whatever,

Someone we trusted so that eventually we could come,

We can come to a level of resolution where that's no longer a thing.

So I see that there are two guests and I welcome,

I'll start with Tony.

Welcome to the stage.

You're a teacher,

Coach,

Podcaster,

Husband,

And father.

So you're free to share your thoughts,

Any tips you have for the listeners or questions.

Welcome to the stage,

Tony.

Hey,

What's up Lydia?

Not much.

I'm glad you're here.

Me too.

Like,

So I'm listening and you go,

We as people want more to be understood than to be agreed with.

I was like,

I gotta get in here.

I gotta get in here.

That is so good.

Yeah.

It's,

It's,

It's kind of,

It was a mind boggling concept when I first learned it because I,

As someone who's,

Who's learned the intellectualism as a high priority in life,

I will go to bat and debate anyone to prove that I'm right.

And so,

And in relationship it's interesting cause that doesn't really work,

You know,

Especially a relationship you want to keep and like nurture and make healthier.

That's just not,

That can't be a thing.

And so it was a really,

It was a very cool concept to not just like think about,

But start actually figuring out how to for real make happen in relationship,

You know.

Yeah.

So like my,

My wife,

I guess I need to hear my side.

My wife is one of those people who need to like take time and think process.

Yeah.

And I'm one of those people that want to go,

All right,

There's a problem.

Let's figure it out.

Let's get it out the way,

Move on.

And that doesn't work for both people.

Yep.

And so as she told that story,

I'm like,

She's speaking to my soul right now.

Cause I had to learn to just understand like she's not going to handle this the same way that I am and be okay with that.

And to,

Like you said,

The relationship that I care about and I want to keep,

I want to grow kind of like some sacrifice that has to be had.

I got to kind of sacrifice,

You know,

Just my control.

And go,

Okay,

It's not about me in this situation.

You know,

It's about us.

So now I have to empathize and go,

Okay,

She needs to process.

Okay.

I understand that.

I need to do it now,

But guess what?

I'm going to take a back seat here because that's,

That's what the relationship needs.

And like,

We lost them because of it.

Now we honestly didn't have a bunch of problems or anything like that,

But whatever it is when it happens,

And sometimes I'll just ask,

Like you said,

Having the conversation.

Okay.

So now right now,

I think like,

Do you need time?

Should I go yes or no?

And I think over time,

Not I think,

But over time that process sometimes became less and less because she felt comfortable with her vulnerability and me and knowing that she trusted me.

So I love that.

I love that you said that because,

You know,

The,

The ability to give space,

Like you said,

Basically it's a,

It's a form of relinquishing control to the person who wants to like,

Get it over with,

Let's do it now.

I don't want to wait,

You know,

Is that's my style.

It's an extension of trust when I give the other person space to process.

And then in,

In return,

When they can give me almost like a timeframe,

That's an extension of vulnerability and trust for them to me of saying,

I want to,

I'm going to prioritize this processing and I do,

I want to come back to this,

You know?

And so it's kind of,

And with this person in my life,

We both had to learn this.

I had to learn to give them space.

They had to learn to come back.

And like you said,

It almost say that again.

Yeah.

And give you time.

Like,

Okay,

Give me an hour,

Give me two hours,

Or give me a day or whatever.

Yeah.

And,

And I've actually learned in giving the other person space,

It's given me a whole nother level of understanding about myself,

Because the space has benefited me.

Cause that's taught me trust and patience.

And sometimes I'm able to process a little more too,

You know?

And so,

Yeah,

I love that.

Absolutely.

The part,

I'm a high school teacher.

So the more I'm more of a,

I try to understand my students and build those relationships so that when it is time for me to demand whatever it is that I need from them,

Whether it's an assignment or just their time and attention,

Right there,

The bond there.

Because I took the time to understand how people's days are going,

And it's not just all about the work.

Your high school students are really lucky to have you.

Well,

I do my best.

You know,

If you want to get the most out of people,

You got to figure out how to do it.

Yeah.

And Tony,

You're welcome to come right back on.

I know the time limit is only five minutes.

I need to extend that.

So if you want to come back and yeah,

And continue what you were saying,

Of course,

I think all of us would love to hear it.

I'm used to 10 minutes.

I was like,

Oh,

Wait a second.

I need to change it to 10 minutes.

I actually don't know how to change.

I need to figure that part out.

Yeah,

I think it's settings.

It gives you you can do like one one minute,

Three minute,

Five minute,

10 and 30 or something.

So yeah,

I think it's because I have Android and Android.

Oh,

And that's newer.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you know,

I digress.

You know,

We figured out.

But when you want to get the most out of people like sometimes you just got to take a time to shoot the breeze like that.

That part is like so understated because a lot of people are all about work,

Work,

Work,

You know,

Hustle,

You know,

Got to get this money,

That kind of stuff.

Yeah,

I'm like,

Wait,

Like,

We got to build the bond.

That is so important because it feels that trust.

And a big part of that is just trying to understand,

Like you said,

Not necessarily agreeing with,

But understanding and going,

Oh,

Okay,

I see how you got there.

Even if I don't agree with that saying,

I see how you got there.

And now you're able to really reach people a little bit more because you understand now how they think and how they read.

Yeah.

And I it's so it's so powerful.

I'm so grateful that you came up and are sharing because one,

I'm like,

Wow,

You're I'm,

I can't even imagine how many lives you're changing,

Having this perspective and being who you are.

And,

You know,

It's life changing to both people,

Because when I can extend grace,

When I can extend validating your perspective,

You feel seen and heard,

And then it empowers you to want to do that for others.

And it's almost like a natural pay it forward that we all have maybe innately.

And it's,

It's,

I don't know,

It's just,

It almost feels magical when it happens.

Like,

It's hard to explain.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Not like,

Because I see it as often where teachers like,

They have a certain way that they run things.

And they may be really good at what they do in their process is airtight.

But I'm always like,

Okay,

How much how much of a relationship are you building with those?

Because I'm sure,

I'm sure that they reach some,

And everyone has the way that they do it.

I'm just like,

How do you reach here?

Because,

Again,

Once we build that understanding that relationship,

Now,

You know,

The kids will do whatever,

Because like you said,

They feel seen,

They feel heard,

They feel validated.

And shoot,

Now the sky's the limit,

Because they trust you.

Yeah,

And they feel and I think,

You know,

We all want to be validated.

And when we feel validated,

Yeah,

Nothing,

Things don't feel impossible anymore.

Anything feels possible.

I mean,

What more what greater gift could you give high schoolers than that?

That's amazing.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

So yeah,

There's an empathy thing.

It took a while for me to get to.

But I was I was,

You know,

Like you,

I was I'd battle with anybody.

All right,

Come on,

Bring it on.

I'll get you down.

I'll go and look up the facts.

I got it all.

At the end of the day,

It's like,

There's no trophy.

Yeah,

Nobody.

A lot of times,

Like,

Nobody wins.

You know,

Somebody probably feels hurt from what just happened.

You know,

So at this point,

Like,

I don't argue with anybody.

It's totally different.

I just,

You know,

I just talk,

I give you what I have.

I try to listen and understand and just kind of go from there.

If anything comes from it,

That's great.

If not,

You know,

Hopefully,

We did this thing right.

I,

I really appreciate your perspective and everything you're saying.

I love and I love that.

Like,

Who's really winning?

You know,

When you when you come with all the facts and leave,

Feeling like you're right.

Like,

Was that helpful?

Did that,

You know,

What difference did that ultimately make in in the relationship or the dynamic?

You know?

Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah,

There's a common place.

Like,

For the debate,

You know,

For the band,

For the goal,

For the debate,

You know,

For the band to go back and forth.

Yeah,

But that just can't be all the time.

That's exhausting.

Like,

People don't want to debate you all the time.

Come around.

Like,

Can we just hang out?

Like,

It's okay if you like apples more than bananas.

That's totally fine.

I don't want to debate about that.

It is it can be exhausting,

Particularly in meaningful relationships.

Because it,

It tends to just end in dead ends.

You know,

It doesn't.

It's,

It's,

It closes doors.

It doesn't like open doors to deeper connection and trust,

You know.

Yeah,

Thank you so much for sharing all your perspectives.

And anyone who's listening,

Please follow Tony Rambles.

And it looks like you have YouTube and Twitter and a podcast.

Awesome.

Links in the description,

The Living Numbers podcast.

I'm out.

Thank you so much.

Loyce,

Welcome to the stage.

You're free to share your thoughts or advice you have for the listeners or any questions.

Hey Lydia,

How you doing?

Good.

How are you?

I'm good.

Oh,

You know,

I love this relationship and empathy stuff.

Anyway,

I,

I,

I'm like you,

Man.

I come with the facts and like,

Hey,

Okay,

You couldn't beat me up arguing the facts.

However,

I had to realize that I wanted relationship.

I didn't just want to be right.

You know,

And that happened early on for me.

And I got to a place where I would just tell them,

Hey,

We,

Let's disagree.

We're going to disagree.

Now I'm at a place where I know that in rules for engagement of relationships,

That where whatever the person is saying,

They're right.

And whatever you're saying,

You're right.

Because you're coming from a different framework,

Environment,

Background,

Trauma base,

Whatever that you are coming from,

And they're doing the same.

So therefore to have an argument with somebody who has a different belief system,

Okay.

A belief about a certain thing.

That's,

That's fruitless.

And the thing is,

Is then the arguing is a low vibratory thing.

So nothing can get accomplished.

So I'm from the school of thought.

Now there's rules of engagement.

If we both in this low place about this thing,

We'll agree,

We'll disagree.

And if it's important enough,

We'll couch it and we'll come back to it when we both can see it,

See,

Be on a higher vibration and get a chance to look at our point of view.

Because like you said,

I come back and I may say,

Well,

It wasn't even that serious.

I don't even know why I was so upset about that in the first place.

What did it hit my ego?

What did it do?

And then if it did,

I'll,

Hey,

I probably say,

Hey,

You know what?

We don't even have to discuss it.

I recognize my,

That I was just seeing me in you.

Hello.

Cause that's all they are mirrors to us when we were in conflict.

That's our inner inside world is being reflected out,

Projected out and they're mirroring it back to us.

And then it's so true.

And it's so hard to receive.

Oh,

But you know what?

Now I find it fun now,

Honey.

I said my whole pono pono when that stuff starts happening,

When I feel some type of way,

And I'm gonna say that some type of way,

When that thing comes up me where I feel like I needed to be in our needed to check somebody or whatever it is.

I asked myself,

What does this need?

I'm sorry.

Please forgive me.

I love you.

Thank you.

And then I'm shown right away.

Oh,

You're judging yourself now.

They're projecting it on.

So have compassion for them.

Cause you know how it feels when you're judging yourself and you're projected out there.

And so when I do that,

I have compassion for the other person.

And then I then whatever,

However,

They're presented,

I can deal with.

And I've worked with,

Oh my God,

Teens that were duly diagnosed and with a lot of different stuff and then teens that were in the mental hospital period.

And I learned that we had to house them and make sure they got their knees met.

But the biggest thing was keeping them calm and keeping them in a place where when you say,

Hey,

Stop,

They'll stop.

And I learned at a very early stage of my career as a counselor,

That you must get a relationship with the person before you get to laying down laws and rules and regulations and all that kind of stuff,

Because then nobody gonna respect you.

You coming in like gangbusters with the law.

Who the fuck are you?

Excuse me.

Who the fuck are you?

No.

So you go in and you get to know them and you get to see what they like and whatever.

And then you tell them,

Oh,

Okay.

Oh,

That's where you're coming from.

And they may be bitter.

They may be angry.

They may be cussing you out.

Okay.

Miss look,

Miss bitch to you.

Thank you very much.

You can call me whatever you want.

Cause I know who I am,

But if that's how you feel miss bitch and they'll no miss.

Okay.

And then,

You know,

And the thing is you build the relationship with them.

And to me,

I already knew that I was dealing with people who were severely hurting.

Okay.

So therefore anything was liable to come out they damn mouth.

And if I hadn't had me in check,

Oh my God,

It would have been trigger capital of the world.

We didn't even have,

We didn't even have,

Oh,

Okay.

Okay.

Corral.

Okay.

So it was,

It was imperative that I understood that in order to help somebody heal,

Or help,

Or even be in that relationship,

I didn't have to be right all the time.

Now I can always think I was right all the time,

But then that also brought about an energy of a superiority and that was bullshit too.

Okay.

I'm going to be real.

Thank you.

And feel free to come right back on.

Cause I love this conversation.

Loyce.

Yeah.

I,

I really love what you're saying about building the relationship before setting down the rules,

Especially in that,

In that kind of context.

And you know,

When I hear you talk about building the relationship,

It sounds like you really,

You really focused on empathizing and validating their experience.

And,

And,

You know,

A lot of that,

It sounds like you were curious,

You got curious about them and like curious with each other,

That's a form of validation and empathy to be curious about someone else's experience again,

Regardless if you agree with them,

But when someone's curious about my perspective,

Oh my goodness,

Do I feel validated and understood?

But you know what,

Lydia,

It wasn't even about being validating them and trying to understand,

To understand it from their point of view.

It was about me knowing me and how in that moment I felt when I wasn't getting heard and people were laying down the laws.

I never,

I didn't,

It was,

It was not a contrived.

I didn't think about,

Well,

Let's do this or let's do that.

It came natural because I wanted to give better than I did.

I received,

You know what I mean?

Cause I know,

I know that all that validation didn't happen for me.

I got only as I got validated with school.

That's why I would argue your ass to the ground.

Okay.

And we'll come up with facts and figures that you'd be like,

Where the heck?

And we had no internet.

Well,

No,

I remember that I grew up in the 90s and 80s.

So I'm talking about walking to the library and encyclopedia for my school reports.

Okay.

And reading the paper for current events,

Cutting out articles.

Okay.

That's the school I came from.

So it wasn't as easy to get.

It wasn't all this information now,

Even with this information,

I love it because I don't have to walk to the library.

I don't have to check out stacks and stacks of books.

And I was at,

I was that kid.

Okay.

I'm gonna be real.

That's why I got picked on.

Okay.

But then again,

I was a bully buster too.

And so it's like,

They picked on the wrong person today.

Cause I had a lot of rage cause all the abuse.

So it was like,

Come on,

Somebody pick at me.

I want to take some of this out,

But yeah,

I wasn't that bad.

Cause I,

I was not,

I was still the same personality.

So what brought you to being able to stay so deeply connected to yourself in that,

In that context where you,

You understood that you wanted to build relationships with these people,

With the teens that had,

You know,

The multiple diagnoses and you had this kind of,

It sounds like very grounded place of staying connected while being in a pretty unpredictable environment or they were coming from that and you were being able to hold space for them.

Like how,

What,

What allowed you to be grounded?

My own trauma,

My own,

My own childhood trauma that led to me questioning my existence as a teenager.

Okay.

I mean,

And I didn't have anybody who could,

Who would listen to me.

They did not hear me.

So I,

At nine years old,

I vowed at seven at seven,

I asked for wisdom.

Okay.

And when I went to church and I went on my own because I saw Jesus will save you.

Cause I'm trying to get saved from some abuse.

That's and then at nine,

By the time I was nine,

I could not stand to see people sitting off on the sidelines with,

You know,

Where nobody was playing with them or they were,

They were being teased or I could not stand that because I guess in that home,

It was kind of like a bully like environment at home.

And I couldn't fight back there.

Okay.

But I damn sure can make people who was getting bullied feel better and bring them into the fold and make sure they knew that they,

Hey,

You're worth something.

Don't sit on the sidelines.

So I can't say that this happened in a moment.

And when I became a professional,

This is,

This is who I was from nine years old.

I was actually,

I had a friend who had,

Okay at nine,

I had friends who would sit off to the side because I guess they didn't feel like they had the right hair,

The right clothes or the right whatever,

Because they were little kids.

And some people they had mothers who knew how to do hair.

Like my mama knew how to do hair really good.

And so our hair always looked and other people's mothers didn't know how to comb their hair.

So sometimes they hear it was all mess.

You know,

You know how everybody was different and some had the clean clothes,

Some didn't have the clean clothes.

And I was fortunate to have the mother that could do the hair and the mother that could do the clothes and all that kind of stuff.

And people would talk,

Tease the people.

I like do it.

Don't pay no attention to them.

Come on,

We can play dress up.

Okay.

That's what I would do.

Come on.

We going to play makeup.

Come on.

We gonna do your hair.

And I still do hair now because I loved doing hair.

I love doing makeovers on people.

I still love that shit.

That's awesome.

That's such a gift.

It's fun.

It is fun because I see the beauty in the people and I,

And I have the ability to like accentuate all that goodness.

That's so beautiful.

Yeah.

And feel free to come back.

Oh,

I'm getting cut off again.

Okay.

Yeah,

Come back up.

But I love that,

You know,

And I love that you honored,

You know,

The wisdom you had as a seven year old and nine year old,

That it came from who you were and the strengths you were as a kid.

And I also,

You know,

I love how you talked about work,

Like doing makeovers and how that's so fun because I'm a massage teacher among other roles I play and conscious touch is so healing,

You know,

And doing people's hair and like giving them makeovers is so,

Is such a profound gift that you have others because they can feel like taken care of simply by the experience.

You know,

I,

It's,

That's so powerful.

And it's fun.

It's fun.

I got those creative being in this fun.

And then I had other friends by the time I was 10,

I had a friend who was afraid to come out the house and come down the street where everybody else would hang out at.

So one summer I spent,

It's been half the summer getting her,

Getting her clear of agoraphobia,

Did not know what that shit was called.

Just knew she was scared to go come down the street house by house.

We started in her backyard and then we played in her backyard for a few days.

Then we got to her front porch.

Then we got next door to,

Cause it was kids all,

Every house almost had kids or every other house on one side,

Every other house on one side,

Every house.

So we were,

Each day we would go to somebody else's house closer and closer.

And I lived all the way at the other end of the block.

I was trying to get her to come home,

Come to play at my house.

Now we got halfway down the block.

We got halfway literally halfway down the block and I got sick and I couldn't,

And I was not available for about a week and a half and we lost ground.

So I,

We were starting out.

So I didn't have the summer with not much left.

So for us to continue our forage done,

But it did help her when we got to high school.

Okay.

Now I understand that she,

And I don't,

Her brother,

Her brother said she's still pretty reclusive,

But she has a job and all the other kinds of stuff.

So I like the thing I helped her because I was getting there down the street,

You know what I mean?

But I was still a kid.

So,

So for me,

All this stuff for me started as a child.

I didn't,

This is not something new.

This is not,

Oh,

Well,

Loyster had an epiphany and then she became this therapist.

No bullshit.

I was the therapist before I got the titles.

I got the title to,

So the world would pay me the money I deserve because they asked for the titles.

They wanted justification for what I was doing.

I always end up doing stuff,

Even in my healing journey from all the diseases and from death and all that stuff,

Even in the healing journey,

I did the stuff as I was inspired to do it.

And then later found out it had a name.

What the hell?

Yeah,

No,

I love that.

You know,

It speaks so much to,

To the fact that we all have such like inner wisdom,

Like,

You know,

There's such an inner genius in all of us.

And,

And,

And it starts when we're young,

Like kids are geniuses and wise,

You know,

And that's why I say train them the way they should go.

Train them the way they should go.

Not the way you want them to be the mini me's and carving copies or,

Or the person you didn't get to be.

No,

You train them in the way they been is going.

You know,

I had one that was,

You could,

You could find her at ADHD,

But I never would let them do that.

I wouldn't let them do that.

I just channeled her energy into track and field and gymnastics and whatever activity I could possibly think of that would get that energy burned.

Okay.

And I had another one who was into creative,

Creative things.

So I got her in dance,

But then she didn't stay with that,

But she ended up being writing and doing drama.

And by the time she was nine,

She was published and being invited to New York to get an award.

So whatever,

Whatever they've leaned was,

I've been them toward it because they show it early.

They show it so early.

Yep.

I don't know if you have kids or not,

But kids show what their talents are early by how they,

You know,

The other,

The last one is she's on this app.

She just,

She at nine months,

Instead of banging on my keyboard,

On my computer,

She pushed it finger by finger,

By finger,

By finger.

I'm like,

Damn,

This girl gonna be on this.

And I taught her how to read on the computer.

Cause I sent her up there and showed her what,

What was what.

And once she got it,

Man,

Now look at her,

Man,

She's it and all this other kinds of stuff.

Never went to school for that.

Went to school for business.

Never went to school for any of this computer stuff,

But she's a whiz at all because if that was her gift,

She grew up,

That was her thing.

Cause I've never seen any other kid I had on my life.

They was banging on my keyboard and messing up my term papers.

I love,

You know,

The brilliance you speak to,

To your own wisdom and ability to see that,

You know,

In kids so young.

And I,

I don't have my own kids.

I've worked with many kids over the years and I,

I believe the same thing.

Kids are geniuses.

And I mean,

As adults,

We get to facilitate space for them to show it and feel,

You know,

Feel safer in the world to like follow their passions.

Again,

You're,

You're free to continue if you want to,

If you want to come back up.

Yeah.

And,

You know,

Coming back to what you had said earlier in the conversation about,

You know,

It's really about building the relationships.

You you've given so many beautiful examples in your stories of all the ways you have just followed your own intuition and wisdom and building relationships from like a young age,

All the way to your own,

To your own kids and,

And how it's given space for people to really thrive.

You know,

I love it.

Cause the thing is,

Lydia,

We know we all have our talents and gifts and stuff.

And I know that some of mine,

Some of mine,

Because they were a little woo woo.

I was put down for,

I was exercise for called crazy for most recently called a witch.

I,

I,

I understand.

I,

I was a little,

A little deep thinker myself when I was little.

So I,

I love thinking outside the box and,

And,

And I haven't always gotten the best receptivity from it.

I would have angels.

I would literally have angels rescue me out of situations.

And then I'd take the people back to where the,

I call it an angel because I was being attacked.

And this lady came out the back door of a house and with a broom and started beating the boys off of me.

Cause they were trying to take the clothes off.

Okay.

Started beating the boys off me.

I would call that an angel too.

Okay.

That was the angel.

I thought it was a real life person.

So my,

I told my grandmother,

I got home and I was crying and she saw my clothes all torn and scratches and stuff.

And I told her,

So she went,

We went walking around the corner to go and thank the lady for saving me.

The lady never lived there.

She never lived there.

Wouldn't nobody like that ever there.

But I saw this person come out the back door.

So that was a little woo.

And then when I had my first near death experience,

That was way woo woo.

Okay.

So I can talk about a lot of stuff when I was a kid,

Because it wasn't normal.

It wasn't the standard they wanted to,

You know,

When I missed the substance of they wanted like,

We need to do some testing.

Yeah.

You know,

It's,

It's interesting because I think a lot of kids,

I felt similar.

We're,

We feel isolated by thinking we're different,

You know,

And,

And,

And so much of society conditions us to think we're different,

But I think so much of the world feels that way.

So it's,

It's the,

It's a,

It's a sad irony that so much,

So many that we're all brilliant and yet we're not,

Most of us as kids,

Weren't given the space and probably because the,

Our caretakers weren't either,

You know?

And so I love that,

You know,

The power of the stories you're sharing,

Because it just speaks to,

To the authenticity of how you've lived your life and how many lives you've changed,

You know,

As a result.

Oh,

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

But my whole thing was,

It wasn't that I was trying to change the lives.

I was just trying to help them smile because I was so sad on the inside.

I'm going to be real.

I was so sad on the inside,

On the outside.

I was like,

I don't want nobody to feel like me.

Nobody,

Nobody,

Nobody.

And that was my thing.

So a lot of people I helped out,

I helped out of fear when I was younger,

But now it's a whole other thing.

Now I feel so damn good on the inside.

I want everybody to feel this shit.

This is,

This is,

Oh my Jesus.

This is what I want everybody to feel.

But the thing is in the beginning,

My motivation was out of fear.

I didn't,

I feared that people would feel the way I did and they wouldn't be able to survive.

Yeah.

And you know that,

I mean,

That was,

That was also the brilliance of who you were at that time,

You know,

Because you helping others from a place of pain is like really beautiful.

You know,

I never thought,

You know what really,

I never thought of it like that because I didn't think I was helping them from a place of pain.

I just thought I was trying to avoid them getting hurt.

I didn't think,

I wasn't thinking this big,

You know,

Now looking back,

Oh,

I could look at it like that,

But that wasn't what was going on.

I was trying to make it from day to day helping as many people as I could help as long as I was alive.

Cause I wasn't promised,

You know what I mean?

Cause that already hit,

Like I said,

You know,

I struggle with life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No,

I mean,

You know,

We,

We have completely different lives and experiences,

But I had,

I dealt with some trauma at a young age too.

And it's when you're that young,

It's,

It's sad because you live a lot of your childhood and growing up not understanding why you're sad or again,

Like you said,

Just wanting to avoid the pain.

Yes.

So I it's so beautiful to see that even though you might not have understood it at the time that you were able to help so many people,

You know,

I guess,

Despite the pain you were moving through,

You know,

I knew because I was trying to say,

I,

I,

Girl,

You got to change this time or next time.

I know.

I know.

I think it's funny.

I've been cracking up and I get cut off.

Hold your breath.

But I kind of knew when I,

When I was doing what I was doing that because I had that faith in my foundation was at church,

Because I told you I church myself from seven to shoot a long time.

That because I knew that it was,

This is something better that is this guy closes one door and another one's going to open.

If I don't get this job,

I'm going to get the next job.

If it's for me,

I'm going to get it.

If it's going to get better,

It's going to get better than this.

It can get worse if I think it's going to get worse,

But I'm going to do the best right now.

And I'm going to think right now.

And as long as I roll through with gratitude,

Regardless of how bad I felt,

Okay.

I had to be grateful for something because it kept me holding on to my faith and it kept me holding on to each day,

Believing that it's going to get better.

If I continued doing what I was doing,

Because I knew that I didn't take my victimization and turn around and victimized.

I knew I did the right stuff with it.

So I knew at some point the shit was going to turn around.

Now I didn't know anything about vibration and energy and all that kind of stuff to a lot of much later.

And then when I look back at it,

I know that the reason I said so much that suffers so much for so long is because my vibration was low because I had a negative worldview.

Okay.

The world was a mean,

Hostile,

Angry place to me.

Okay.

And I had to be on guard and I had to be Xena and Wonder Woman and what is it?

Superwoman princess warrior or whatever.

Oh yeah.

Open up a can of whip ass in a minute.

Okay.

Especially if you're messing with one of my cubs.

Yeah.

And I mean,

Going through trauma does that the nervous system,

It kind of teaches your body to like feel safe.

Yeah.

And that's a survival response to the stuff you went through.

No,

That's also survival response to watching all the bullshit on TV.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Watching all that stuff and listening to all these things and seeing the TikToks where people are crashing the people and people are having these catastrophic and people getting shot live on your Facebook feed.

What the hell?

Okay.

That stuff creates all that too.

Yeah.

And I don't watch.

That's what I talked about a lot.

Secondary trauma from what we consume.

It's a really important piece to bring up in general of like notice what we're consuming,

Not just food,

But also how it's affecting our nervous system and how it's affecting our worldview.

Because that really,

You know,

That's something I've learned as well.

What I've consumed over the years,

As far as TV shows,

Social media now,

I have to really tune in to it affecting how my outlook and that's one of the questions I ask when I'm in down thoughts or having an emotion that is rough is where did this come from?

And a lot of times it's can be very clearly coming from what I just consumed on technology within the last 24 hours.

And so it's helpful for me to use that almost as an assessment tool of like,

Okay,

Recognize that was an influence from what you were consuming,

Put a better boundary around it.

And then how can you shift,

You know,

From that place?

My thing is I tell people,

You got to watch what's put in your gates.

Any opening in your body is a gate.

Yeah.

Any opening in your body.

I like that.

I really got to watch what you put in your gate.

Yep.

Okay.

Sexually,

Physically,

Mentally,

When you hear it,

When you look in when,

When you touch it,

Anything you put in your gate,

Because whatever you put in has got to come back out.

Okay.

And it affects you.

Yeah.

And it affects your vibration.

And it's like,

Whoa,

Because I'm gonna say this,

I'm gonna get out here.

I had a thing where I had,

It was Christmas time,

And my daughter left the TV on in my room,

Walmart commercial,

Playing all night time,

But you got to get your Walmart,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

My Christmas shopping had been done.

I woke up at four 30 in the morning,

Making breakfast,

Getting dressed to go to Walmart.

What?

Yeah.

And you know what?

I recently learned the average person as bombarded for 75,

000 advertisements per day right now,

Like,

Holy,

Holy.

Okay.

Every time you have a craving,

It's probably from an ad that day.

Okay.

So I don't watch TV.

So I watch.

Yeah,

But there's so many ads on Instagram.

I mean,

Everywhere on social media now,

Like everywhere,

You know,

That's,

That's such a,

That's such a profound example,

You know,

You're a Walmart,

As soon as you got up.

That's,

Yeah,

That's,

That's really powerful.

And from the perspective of Chinese medicine,

I've done a little bit of training in martial arts and healing arts.

And from the perspective of Chinese medicine,

They talk about how we have something called wei chi.

And it's our,

It's our protective energy around our body and the first line of defense of our body.

And what Loy said about the gates,

That's,

That's very similar to this perspective from Chinese medicine of being very discerning about our interaction with the world around us and,

And what we're allowing basically through our energy field,

Because it affects us and it shifts how we are navigating and interacting with not just the world around us,

But with ourselves.

And it affects how our bodies are responding.

It affects our worldview.

It affects our perspective.

And,

You know,

Tying all of this back into the concept of empathy and agreement,

I believe empathy is,

Is a way of strengthening energy with someone else.

It's a way of strengthening someone's energy field and your own.

Because when I can extend empathy and validation to you,

Whether it's a skill that I've been learning or innate,

Like Loyce was talking about,

Something that she grew up with,

When I can extend that,

It deepens,

It creates a level of emotional trust where someone senses and understands that they can be vulnerable and it's not dangerous to be.

Because I have first extended vulnerability through connecting to them emotionally with empathy.

And so I kind of love how this conversation,

At least from how I'm processing it,

Has come full circle to this concept of empathy in the context of conflict,

In the context of relationship.

Because when we're in conflict with someone else,

We feel vulnerable.

We feel like we want to protect ourselves.

We don't necessarily feel like that present moment is safe.

But the more we can practice and be around people and practice it within ourselves and start creating and cultivating more safety within ourselves,

Like Loyce said,

As a kid,

She grew up not feeling safe.

And as an adult,

She started coming into understanding vibration and was able to shift into a more positive perspective,

Which allowed her to see the world in a much different way and less from a place of danger,

More from a place of safety.

And it's allowed her to embody joy in the conversation we just had,

Full joy and transformation in so many lives.

Empathy is one of those gifts we can give to each other.

And it's receiving true empathy is such a healing experience.

And when we can practice and cultivate the art,

Essentially,

Of showing empathy to others,

And by empathy,

What I mean is being able to express your understanding of their perspective and why you think they might be feeling a certain way or came to a certain idea or concept in the discussion or conflict.

When you do that,

It doesn't even matter if there's agreement or not,

Because they suddenly feel seen.

And when we feel seen,

We feel strong,

And we feel safer,

And we can feel like we suddenly have a ground to stand on and move from.

And cultivating that in ourselves and with each other,

Man,

That creates such strong communities and greater resilience and whatever else we desire.

And some of her examples,

She talked about how it was just natural that she wanted to do make-up and help people with their hair,

And her mom did it.

And so it felt like a natural extension for her to do that,

No pun intended.

And that provided so much fun and joy and playfulness.

And I was listening to a podcast recently on the Huberman Lab,

Which a lot of the stuff there is great.

Some of it I disagree with.

But he did a whole episode on play and how play is the absolute most powerful way to create shift in our nervous system and our perspectives and our ability to change.

And it was so cool to hear that,

Because play is not super emphasized in hustle culture and in capitalism and a lot of the society we live in.

Because play feels like it's not productive.

Turns out,

Research shows play is one of the most productive things we can do and bring into our lives.

And the discussion was about how the definition of play is a low-risk environment,

Not necessarily like professional sports,

Because there's a lot riding on that.

But more like low-risk engagement,

Social engagement with others,

Where there's the potential for multiple outcomes,

Where you have to put yourself kind of in an uncomfortable setting,

Kind of,

But again,

It's from a playful perspective.

And so it puts your mind in a state of creativity and solution-focused problem solving,

Where it creates new neural pathways that strengthen your ability to become more adaptable and flexible in your own mindset and perspective in all other areas of your life.

Coming back to allowing this to,

You know,

This conversation around empathy and whether we need to agree or not with empathy,

When in that original example that I gave at the beginning of this beautiful talk,

I talked about how I had a recent event with a person I cared about,

Where we were in a conflict,

And we decided to experiment with,

Can we show empathy for each other without needing to agree?

And yes,

It was uncomfortable because there was a level of vulnerability to it,

But I want to say it brought an energy that was so much more lighthearted to our connection,

That it felt,

It felt like everything was going to be okay.

And,

You know,

Deep down,

I think we both ultimately knew that,

But the heaviness of conflict can make us feel very discouraged or make us feel very black and white of like threatened and protective and like,

Shit,

You know,

Now what?

And empathy allowed me in that recent example to come to a much more lighthearted,

Oh,

I would say almost playful,

But not quite.

It bridged to being able to then hang out again and be playful and lighthearted.

You know,

Empathy is a way of raising the vibration in a sense of bringing up the energy into higher intelligence,

You know,

And higher ability to connect with each other and ourselves.

Because when I can get to a place of sincerely,

Not fake,

Not pretending,

Sincerely showing true empathy from someone else,

It's happening because I have been,

I've been able to practice doing that with myself and I am connected in my own wisdom at that time to be able to extend that to someone else without it feeling like I'm going to be unsafe,

You know.

And I want to say empathy within conflict,

I'm not saying in a dangerous situation,

I'm not even necessarily saying this all applies to an abusive situation or,

You know,

Extreme situations where safety really is at stake,

You know.

This is kind of in everyday settings with friends and family or,

You know,

Maybe even acquaintances that you care about and want to repair ruptures,

You know,

Where there's,

There may be a level of vulnerability and stuff,

But there's a level of discernment where it's not,

You're not going to risk your life essentially.

So I just kind of want to put that disclaimer because topics like this and when we think about interpersonal dynamics and the psychology of how to relate to each other,

You know,

Making them a universal idea doesn't necessarily help people in situations where their survival is at stake,

You know.

And so it's,

I think it's important to bring up because when I've been in places of trauma in my life in the past,

Hearing certain concepts almost felt more defeating because I didn't know how to,

I couldn't get there from where I was,

You know.

And that's a whole other conversation in itself of how do we work with that in a more unpredictable setting,

You know.

And that's a topic for another day.

I so appreciate everyone who's come on stage today and shared their wisdom and the brilliant stories and their thoughts.

I think it's added so much to this entire topic.

It's given me a lot to think about and process.

It's brought beautiful realizations,

I think,

To the conversation,

You know,

And these concepts.

If there's anyone else that wants to come up,

Share your thoughts,

Ask questions,

Share tips of what's helped you in these types of settings you're free to.

And we have another guest.

Yay,

Brian!

So Brian's come on stage before.

Welcome.

You're free to share your thoughts on this topic.

Hey,

Lydia.

Yeah,

So I do agree with this idea that it doesn't mean you have to agree.

It just,

It doesn't mean you have to agree.

It just,

For me,

It just means that,

You know,

That you could be empathetic in the way that somebody feels about a situation.

For example,

Like,

Say you are having disagreement with your parents and you're talking to a friend,

A relative about it.

The friend and relative doesn't side with you but sides with your parents,

Right?

But they're still empathetic in that I've been in that kind of a situation before.

I don't,

I think that you're,

I agree with your parents,

But I've been in that kind of a situation before with my own parents.

So I can empathize with you feeling upset about something or something along those lines.

So yeah,

And I,

You know,

I like that point that you're making that,

You know,

When we,

When we go to other people we trust to try to process a situation or a conflict we've recently been in with someone,

Empathy can,

Can be expressed even if we,

If like,

If I'm the receiver of your story,

I might be,

I wouldn't even say taking the side of the other person,

But I might be maybe agreeing with the other perspective,

But it's still,

It doesn't mean I can't empathize with your perspective.

So yeah,

I really,

I appreciate that because,

You know,

I was thinking more of the perspective of just me with the person I might be in conflict with,

But empathy does,

Can extend without the need for agreement when we're processing with someone else about a situation.

So yeah,

That's a great,

That's a great point to make.

Yeah.

And I see your point too,

About that kind of a situation of a one-on-one.

Yeah,

Because like,

And,

And the reason that,

That I think that this is good too is because there's the,

There's certain misconceptions that,

Empathy means that,

That you automatically agree with the person that wants that empathy.

And,

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you know,

It can even,

We didn't,

I didn't really bring this up too much in this conversation yet,

But sometimes it's really important that we don't agree with the other person.

And so what I mean is if,

If I'm in a conflict with someone it's,

And it's a conflict that's almost going against my integrity or values,

Me trying to agree with them by going against my own values is not going to benefit either of us,

But I can still empathize with them,

Validate,

Validate and show understanding while sticking to my values and not being out of my own integrity.

And so sometimes disagreement can almost,

Can actually be necessary,

You know,

In certain conflicts and,

And disagreements.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm,

I'm totally with you,

Lydia,

On that one.

Plus if,

Plus if there was no conflict in this world,

Then it would be boring.

Who knows?

I can't even imagine a world without that,

Without contrast,

You know?

Yeah.

That's,

That's a,

That's an interesting thought experiment.

Yeah.

It's not about avoiding it.

It's more so about making sure that it doesn't go too far of a direction,

Whether it's down or up or left or right.

So that's,

That's,

That's the most important thing.

And I think that's,

That's the most important thing.

Is figuring out how to be even keeled through a situation like that.

And I mean,

Of course it is sweet if you can come to an agreement on both sides,

But.

Well,

Yeah.

And that's the beauty of empathy is a lot of times it,

It opens doors to creative,

Creative places you can get to,

To resolve that.

And I think that's the most important thing.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Thank you for having me,

Lydia.

Thank you so much,

Brian,

For,

For coming on stage and sharing your thoughts.

That was beautiful.

Yeah.

So to close out this conversation,

I invite,

You know,

I like to end conversations like this with,

With tips or ideas or questions that you can kind of walk away with.

The question I always like to ask is,

Is there a way to,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To,

To ask as a former brain trainer or cognitive skills trainer is what is one thing that really meant something to you in this discussion today that,

That hit,

That hit a chord in a good way for you that you want to take away with,

Take away from maybe to,

To consider more,

To,

To ponder,

To integrate,

To bring into your daily life in the next 24 hours,

Coming away from a conversation like this,

You know,

No matter how much time you spent listening or,

Or whatever,

It helps your brain and your nervous system to kind of focus on implementing and integrating and information and education and experiences like this can be very powerful.

What makes them even more powerful in our lives is when we can learn to integrate and implement another question or idea is how,

What does empathy mean to you in relationships?

How do you want to be empathized with when you're feeling vulnerable or in a conflict or just anytime in life?

You know,

We spoke in the context of conflict today and from that place,

What are ways that you feel you can start practicing empathy for yourself or for others in a way where you don't have to agree?

You know,

Cause each of us are going to come to this topic,

To this discussion from a completely different space,

From completely unique perspective and understanding you're going to have so much brilliant wisdom that might not have been shared at all today because we're different people.

So really honor yourself as,

You know,

As we're closing out this conversation today and,

And give your notice where you can give yourself credit in your life and where you can honor wisdom that you came to yourself and the brilliance of who you are and,

And notice how that feels,

You know,

And,

And,

And notice what is the,

The wisdom within tell you about how you want to navigate relationships,

How you want to start working on or not start working on,

That's an assumption that we didn't start to begin with,

How you want to continue or continue cultivating,

Creating more peace,

More trust within yourself and doing that with others.

Thank you so much for tuning in,

For listening today.

I so appreciate all of you that came on stage and shared your thoughts and brilliant perspectives.

I appreciate all of you in the audience listening both live and to the replay.

You can follow me,

You know,

Any of the links that you see in my bio.

And of course,

If you ever have any follow-up questions,

You're free to reach out as much as I can support and share your process.

I will do so.

And I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day or night whenever you're listening in.

Take care.