Reality Versus Imagination

Reality is what’s alive in your sensory experience right now.

It’s seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling and tasting. What also might be alive right now is thought. The content of that thought is what I’m calling imagination. It’s the concepts, images, stories and narratives that are, well, alive only in imagination.

Reality has an aliveness that imaginary thought forms seem to lack. Reality is illuminated, immediate, and alive.

We all live in imagination at times and that’s fine. It’s just really, really helpful to know the difference.

Transcript

Something that I have been constantly exploring in my life recently is the difference between reality and imagination.

Now I don't know what reality is,

I don't want to pretend to know what reality is,

But this exploration,

Like just being so curious about what is this?

What is this?

What is this life thing?

What is this that we're experiencing?

What's real?

And what is imagination?

And what's the difference?

It has just been so fascinating and it always leads me back to I don't know.

I don't know for sure.

It's such a mystery.

I mean who knows?

Who really knows anything about what this life thing is?

And how is it that we feel?

And how is it that we think?

And what even is thought?

What even is it?

No one knows this stuff,

But it's so fascinating to look at it.

So if we think about reality versus imagination,

We'll just hold these words kind of loosely.

What's here right now in your direct,

Immediate experience?

Right this minute there's sensory information,

Right?

So there's seeing,

There's hearing,

Maybe smelling,

Maybe tasting,

There's feeling including sensations and these things we call emotion.

Who knows what an emotion is?

I don't,

But there's feeling of stuff.

So there's this sensory information,

This constant feeling that's here right now directly in real time right this second.

Now there might also be thinking.

There might be thought kind of talking to itself as it likes to do about all kinds of things,

Right?

You might be thinking about what you did on the break,

Thinking about what's coming later,

Thinking about the temperature in the room or whether you like my outfit or whatever you're thinking about.

So thought is here.

The fact of thought,

The presence of thought may also be here in our direct experience.

And I think,

I mean just for the sake of our exploration,

I think we can call that reality.

It's what's here,

Now,

Immediate,

Intimate,

Direct.

So the fact of thought may be here,

But the what of thought,

Like what you're thinking,

Is not here in reality.

So lunch is not here.

Lunch is nowhere.

Later is not here,

Ever.

It will never be here.

You know,

Your preferences or your thoughts or your judgments about the room or what you're hearing or any of that,

They're only present as concepts in mind.

They're your imagination,

Essentially.

We can look at this in a really concrete way,

Too.

Like if you just look at your hand.

Look at your hand.

There's something there.

Now hand is a concept.

There's not a hand here.

That's a concept,

Right?

That's a label.

But there's something here and you're looking at it and it's immediate.

It's right here,

Right now,

And you can't really deny it.

Something is right here.

So that's your hand.

This is reality.

Now if you close your eyes and imagine your hand,

You can maybe see a hand and it might resemble the one you just looked at,

But it's not the same,

Right?

It's kind of grainy.

It's kind of,

I don't know what it is.

I get an outline of it and then it kind of vanishes.

It's a little ghost-like.

It's a little bit just like a representation of a hand.

It's a conceptual hand.

So that's the difference in a really simple way between reality,

Right here,

My voice,

Your hand,

Feel of your legs on the chair,

Instant,

Immediate,

Right here,

Reality,

And imagination.

Closing your eyes and imagining.

So all the time we're in imagination.

It's happening all the time,

Right?

We can imagine these worlds.

We imagine what we think is happening back home or in Israel or in London or in Michigan.

We can imagine that.

It can come to mind,

But again,

It's just our imagination at work.

It isn't reality.

It isn't here right now.

We can't find it.

We can't touch it.

We can't see it,

And it's just crazy to really think about how easily and how often these things are confused for each other.

How often we're in imaginary worlds.

Our mind creates these fantasy worlds that are nowhere to be found,

And we confuse those with reality all the time,

Right?

And it's really important.

It feels like now I don't.

.

.

I think imagination is awesome and I'm not at all placing any judgment on it,

And hopefully as we keep exploring you'll see that.

It's incredible that we have this ability to imagine things and to see things that aren't in reality and to do all of those things,

But it just turns out I think it's really important to know the difference.

You know,

It's really huge to kind of have this real sense of the difference,

And I think that's gotten so lost.

So we don't know for sure,

But it seems like humans are maybe the only creatures that get confused about what reality is.

I mean,

I doubt my dogs are thinking about what reality is or squirrels outside.

Can you imagine,

Like,

A squirrel just eating his little nuts?

Like,

Is this real?

What's reality?

Like,

There's only real to a squirrel,

I'm guessing.

There's just what's real and what's here.

It's all real.

That's because in order to get confused or even just ponder what reality is,

Which we humans do so often,

Even to just ask that question,

We have to have the ability and the inclination to create fantasy worlds that are not real in our heads and live there a lot.

And we do,

Right?

We do all the time.

So it's just crazy to see that,

How readily and for how long this has been happening,

And that we just kind of lose sight of that difference.

So when you look,

I think it takes imagination to have a problem.

So right here,

Again,

Sensory information,

Seeing,

Hearing,

Feeling,

Right here,

Get a feel for this before the mind comes in with its labels,

Before it comes in with its judgments,

Before it comes in with before and after,

Used to,

Later when,

All imagination,

All concepts.

None of that is real.

We can't find it.

We can't see it.

We can't touch it.

None of that is real.

So before the mind comes in with all of those imaginary concepts,

There's just this.

Now what is this?

Again,

Who knows,

Right?

But it's so real.

It's so alive.

It's so vivid.

You feel it.

How is it that we even feel?

I mean,

Even that is crazy,

That we have this ability to feel stuff and feel this energy.

There's all of this amazing,

Immediate,

Intimate aliveness that is always here.

And it's so easy to kind of miss that when we're off in imagination land.

But in this reality,

Whatever this is,

And whatever feeling is showing up,

Again,

Before the label of,

Oh,

This is depression,

Or this is anxiety,

Or this is my addiction,

There's just sensation.

There's just seeing.

There's just hearing.

There's just this aliveness.

There's no problem in that.

How could there be?

It would take a mind to come in and say,

This should be different.

And what does that even mean?

How does the mind know this should be different?

And how do we know anything should be different?

When we're thinking this should be different than it is,

It takes our imagination to come in and create a picture,

Right?

Or a memory,

Whatever a memory is,

That shows how it used to be,

Or how we think it should be,

Or how we want it to be.

Pure imagination.

Nothing we can touch,

Or see,

Or nothing alive in that,

Really.

It's just these ghost-like,

Grainy kind of images that show up in our head,

That tell us,

This isn't right.

This should be different.

It wasn't like this before.

Maybe it won't be like this later.

If you do the right things,

It doesn't have to be like this later.

All problems live in that.

This raw,

Immediate,

Direct experience is unbelievably feelable.

There's not a single problem in it.

It's not even solid enough for there to be a problem to form.

Think about that.

Think about this,

Just how this all shows up,

And it's gone in an instant.

It's constantly recycling.

It's here,

It's alive,

We feel it,

And then it's gone.

We see it,

And then it changes.

Like,

Can you grab a second?

Even when I say the word second,

It's gone,

And it's changed before I can even finish saying the word.

It is so fluid,

And seamless,

And alive,

And direct,

And always,

Always moving and changing.

And it's kind of crazy to think how much we sit in imagination and think,

I really need to change things.

This isn't right.

This,

Which is not even here anymore by the time I say this,

That's wrong.

That's wrong.

Shouldn't be.

Something's got to change.

And what a joke that we're running around trying to change things when they're changing before we can even say them.

Like,

What even is this?

Like,

We can't touch it.

We can't grab it.

It's fully ungraspable,

Unknowable,

The most fluid thing in the world.

And we sit around and think,

Man,

I'm stuck.

So this really,

Really came to light for me a couple years ago,

Two,

Three years ago.

I was working with someone,

And I've spoken about him before because it is just a huge,

Huge light bulb experience for me.

But he,

He was a man in our community.

His name was Roger,

And he had had a drinking problem for a really long time,

Decades,

Two,

Three decades by the time I knew him.

Now,

Roger was one of those people that was very determined,

And he was going to do anything and everything,

And he did.

He could tell you every single thing.

He'd read every book.

He knew way more about addiction and spirituality and self-help and psychology than I did,

Way more.

He had been everywhere around the world to every conference,

Every guru,

Every teacher,

And nothing was changing for him in,

In his telling of the story,

In his experience.

He was still drinking.

He was still feeling really stuck in this addiction.

And it was just so interesting to watch him list and catalog all the things he had done,

And to hear his mind really baffled and really kind of justifying,

Like,

Hey,

I've done everything.

Clearly,

It's hopeless because I did this,

And I did that,

And I did that,

And,

And look at me.

Like,

It's,

Nothing has changed.

And it's so fascinating because I kept hearing him say this and kind of make this case for how hopeless he was because he had already tried everything.

And,

And it was like,

He kept upping the ante on the things he would try.

So first,

He would just fly across the country to a conference,

And then he was flying to India to meet a guru.

And like,

Again,

And the mind can,

The mind loves that because that's like,

Ooh,

I'm doing something.

I have a,

There's a real problem here,

And I'm going to solve this real problem.

And I'm pulling out all the stops,

And I'm,

I'm making the big moves and doing all the grand gestures.

So Roger did all the grand gestures.

But the one thing he didn't do was,

Like,

Hang out in reality.

He was almost never here in this,

In reality.

He was always in the next plan,

Or the next philosophy,

Or,

You know,

The next scientific finding that he wanted to talk about and apply to himself.

So he kept getting bigger and bigger.

And I just remember this moment of listening to him talk.

And I was like,

No,

It's the other way.

It's smaller.

It's closer.

It's closer than close.

It's intimate.

It's like this right here.

This is the only thing,

Roger,

That you aren't really doing much of.

It's just being in life and feeling,

Feeling what's here before all the labels.

So I asked him,

Why do you think you drink?

I don't want to hear any more about what you've done that's amazing and impressive.

But why,

Why do you drink?

And not why do you drink?

Because that's a very conceptual question too.

Today,

When you're about to lift that drink to your lips,

What is happening in that moment?

That's,

That's kind of where to look.

Now,

He was baffled.

He didn't know.

He would tell me all the reasons,

Right?

The reasons he drank were that he was an alcoholic.

Well,

I don't know that that's a reason for drinking.

I think that's a description of a behavior,

Right?

But it,

But it made sense in Roger's mind and innocently,

You know?

I mean,

That is how it looks.

Like,

We just feel stuck in these concepts and this,

This imaginary world.

And it's like,

Well,

I drink because I'm an alcoholic.

Yeah,

But we have to look somewhere else.

Okay?

So maybe it's not because I'm an alcoholic.

I drink because he had a really tumultuous relationship.

I drink because my relationship drives me to this.

I drink because my life has been a massive disappointment.

I drink because it's all I've known.

And drinking feels like my friend.

It feels like something I can look forward to.

Again,

These were extremely genuine answers on Roger's part.

Like he,

He was thinking he was digging as deep as he could see.

And this,

This is how our language works,

Right?

This is,

It's really just kind of a feature of language too.

That's how people talk and that's how we talk about this stuff.

So it all seemed to make sense on the surface,

Except that's all conceptual.

It's all imagination.

His mind can tell the story of,

Hey,

I'm Roger.

There's a cause and effect.

I'm an alcoholic that leads me to do this.

I drink to forget my relationship.

Very logical reason on the surface,

Except it has nothing to do with anything because it's pure imagination.

It's just a story.

It's a cause and effect story that when you look at it,

Doesn't even add up.

Like he told me he drank to,

Because he wanted to forget about his relationship,

But he didn't forget about his relationship.

He drank and he went and fought with his partner.

So it's like when you,

Again,

Like really look at this stuff,

This stuff shows up in our heads and it makes sense,

But,

But take it to life.

Like,

Does it really add up?

So,

So we just got so granular with this.

Like,

What are you feeling before anything?

And I think that's always what it is,

Right?

We,

We do whatever we do,

The things we say we don't want to be doing,

Like drinking.

We're doing that because we don't want to feel something.

Now,

What is it that we don't want to feel?

Because seeing and hearing and smelling and tasting and,

And sensations,

Even emotions,

They come and they go constantly.

They're unbelievably feelable.

So as much as we might say,

Oh,

I drink because I can't handle this feeling.

And that really kind of does feel like our truth.

It's,

There's more,

There has to be more,

There has to be something more subtle and granular and closer than that.

And it always has to be that the imagination is coming in and saying,

This is wrong.

I can't handle this feeling.

I don't like this feeling.

And I don't want to make it sound like,

Like this is some big conscious thing that happens.

Like,

Like he was feeling something and then his imagination or his mind came in and said,

Nope,

Don't want this feeling going to go drink.

It doesn't really play out like that.

It's like this,

It's conditioned.

It's in our cells.

You know,

This stuff gets to be so like that,

But that's,

That's still something we can look at and something we can feel.

So we slow this down with Roger and we get him just feeling his body and just feeling this energy.

And then you see his mind come in.

I don't like that.

That's uncomfortable.

I can't handle this.

When is this over?

Okay,

Well,

Those are thoughts.

That's fine.

But let's look at those thoughts because what even is a thought?

What even is that?

It's like this was running his life all because he would say,

Oh,

I can't handle this feeling.

It's too uncomfortable.

What does that mean?

So,

So really to kind of look at like what,

What tells us,

These are weird questions,

But how do we know something is too uncomfortable?

Like what is that?

What does that mean?

You might feel some sensation.

You might have some energy going on.

There might be a thought,

A little story that pops up that says,

Nope,

That's enough.

That's the stopper.

Look at that.

Pull it closer.

What even is it?

Is it something you hear?

Do you hear your mind say,

Nope,

That's too much?

Maybe.

Do you see a picture?

Do you see a picture of you and another imaginary time and place feeling different?

And then that's your conclusion that that's too much?

I don't know,

But this is the stuff I think we want to look at and just be so insanely curious about because this is the stuff that's running our lives.

I mean,

This had Roger drinking and all of us doing all kinds of things and feeling all kinds of things that,

That it's just not necessary.

And it's so much of it,

It's just that we haven't really looked under the hood and gotten curious.

And it's not our fault,

Right?

It's not our fault.

Like who does this?

Who asked these weird questions?

Like what is this?

And what is the feeling?

And what is the thought?

We might,

But we're cool.

We're different.

But most of the world does not do this,

Right?

No one taught us to do this.

So we just,

We just want to get so insanely curious at that level and see what this stuff even is.

This like seems like or too much or I just can't.

Don't take that stuff at face value.

And what I saw with Roger,

What I see in my own explorations all the time,

Is the more we look and really pull it close and get so curious about how do I know this is too much?

What's there that tells me that?

I don't,

I don't know.

I don't know.

Like do you know?

You know,

It's,

It's weird.

It's a mystery.

It's so mysterious.

And there's so much freedom in life being mysterious.

Because life doesn't feel mysterious.

It didn't feel mysterious to Roger at all.

It felt like he absolutely knew.

I'm an alcoholic with a bad relationship.

My life's been a disappointment.

That's why I drink.

And therefore I need to go find another guru that's probably not going to work,

But I'm going to try it anyway,

Because that's what I do.

I mean,

That's really kind of how it was.

And it doesn't make any sense when you really look.

None of that really adds up.

We don't even know what that is.

So after I saw this with Roger,

I just started seeing it all over the place and really asking these very weird questions that,

You know,

They're understandably weird.

Like,

Like,

Like the anorexic woman who I worked with,

Who was running 10 miles a day and just killing her poor body,

Which was about to give out on her.

Why do you run?

Why do you run?

Your body can't handle this.

Why do you feel so compelled to get up and run 10 miles every day?

Why?

And she could give me the reasons.

And the reasons were things like,

I have unprocessed grief.

I'm afraid of gaining weight.

What does that mean?

What do you mean,

What do you mean you're afraid of gaining weight?

Tell me what that means.

How do you know you're afraid of gaining weight?

Well,

My mind tells me I am.

Okay,

How?

Does it,

Does it talk to you?

Like,

Do you hear that in an auditory kind of way?

Do you see a picture of yourself having gained weight and that's uncomfortable?

So let's just say that's the case.

Maybe that's the case.

Well,

Look at that picture.

Pull it in closely.

So she sees a picture,

I'm making this up,

She sees a picture of herself at a higher weight and it's so uncomfortable.

Look at that picture.

What even is it?

Well,

I don't know.

It's kind of an outline of my body and it's bigger and I,

And it feels,

You just can't look.

It doesn't feel okay.

Just,

Just try,

Just look,

See what's there because whatever this imaginary picture is,

It's killing you.

It's literally killing you.

So let's look and just see what it even is.

And I,

I get kind of passionate about this and kind of extreme and I don't,

I mean,

I don't want to make it sound like this is easy because it's not.

We all know what this feels like to be run around feeling like we're run around,

You know,

By something that we don't,

We can't even touch.

Some thought,

Some belief,

Some fear.

And we know it doesn't make sense.

On some level,

We know it doesn't make sense.

It's not like she thought her running 10 miles a day,

You know,

Totally underweight and undernourished was a good idea.

So we know it doesn't make sense yet.

I don't know.

There's just something in the strength of the mind that keeps us from looking.

And when we really look and reel it in and say,

Tell me about this picture,

What often happens is we look for the picture and maybe we feel like we get a glimpse of something,

But then wait a minute,

Where'd the picture go?

Or now it changed because everything is constantly shape-shifting and moving.

Like not,

There's nothing solid that stays around ever,

Even in imagination.

Imagination feels like it lingers way more than reality,

But even imagination,

Right?

We can't hold a fantasy in mind for very long.

Something else is going to show up.

So even in these abstract summary,

Imaginary concepts that we come up with that feel so powerful and huge,

Even those are constantly changing.

And when we look at them and try to see what is this that's running my life,

We usually don't know.

It's just this ghost-like,

Vague,

Strange sense.

It's like a seems like,

Well,

It just seems like that would be a bad thing.

It seems like I need to run,

But is that really what we want to do?

You know,

Like we're making these choices because of something that seems like,

It's like,

You know,

I was just seeing this in everyone.

There was a woman who couldn't throw anything away,

Had so much stuff,

Could not bring herself to throw anything away.

And again,

The reasons,

Well,

I might need it someday.

I have an attachment to this.

I was raised by a mother who was raised in the depression and we were taught to never,

Ever throw anything away.

That conditioning is strong and we feel that conditioning as truth,

As our truth,

As reality.

And it runs us around and it makes our choices for us.

No question.

But let's look at that.

Your conditioning.

So you're saying your conditioning is what has you not throwing anything away.

How does that conditioning show up right now in this very instant?

Because this is all there is.

Doesn't matter what happened 60 years ago or what you were told.

I mean,

Right now,

How does that conditioning show up?

Does it show up as a memory of your mother getting mad because you threw something away when you were 10?

What is that?

What's that memory?

Look at it.

Pull it closer.

I mean,

You maybe get a glimpse of something for a second,

Right?

Isn't memory weird?

Can you remember even walking into this room for this talk?

And that was like,

What,

20 minutes ago,

Half hour ago?

Like there's some kind of grainy memories.

There might be some images that come to mind.

You might see some things or kind of remember some little bits of conversation,

But it's like,

What is it?

We can't grab it.

We revisit it.

You try to remember in an hour from now,

Try to remember walking into this room for this talk.

Different pictures will show up.

Different conversations will show up.

What even is this stuff?

And it's running everything for us.

So we could look like with her,

For example,

She's looking at the,

Well,

It seems like,

And I don't know,

But it's just hard and it's just powerful.

And that's all exactly how a mind wants to keep it.

Very vague,

Very conceptual.

I don't know,

But I just can't do it.

Okay.

I hear you,

But what's beneath that?

What is this?

I don't know,

But I just can't do it.

What is that pointing to?

What is that feeling?

What's beneath it that's being referred to?

Some sensation,

Maybe,

Some tightness,

A sick feeling,

A racing mind.

Again,

Maybe some memories.

There's just something right there when we really drill down that is reality.

It is some sensory information.

It's some seeing,

Hearing,

Feeling,

Whatever it is.

And before and beneath the labels,

Before the,

I just can't,

And it's my conditioning and it's my story,

Before all that,

It is so unbelievably feelable.

We can feel it.

It's not even uncomfortable to feel.

It's only uncomfortable once it gets,

Once all the stories and the explanations get piled on top of it.

You see that?

So it's like we would all not throw things away and run 10 miles a day,

Force ourselves to do that and drink.

If we're hanging out and super identified with those conceptual generalized summaries of things,

When that looks like reality,

That's what we would do.

But when we look at what's beneath that,

There's nothing even there.

There is nothing solid.

And we run around trying to fix these problems at this conceptual level and saying,

I need change and I need this and this has to happen.

And we inevitably come up short because how do you solve a problem that only exists in imagination?

How do you solve a concept?

Really?

You can't.

And we keep trying and trying and trying.

But the really amazing news is when we just go beneath the concepts and get so curious about this stuff,

We just feel.

And there's just nothing solid to solve in that because there's nothing solid.

There's nothing solid in feeling.

It is moving and changing and so vivid and alive all the time.

Reality is perfect.

And we're hanging out in a story that says it's not.

So it's like this summary function of the mind.

The mind just loves to summarize and generalize and give us these big ideas.

And we just want to keep drilling down.

So when I play with this in my life,

It's really interesting.

I mean,

It's weird.

It's very weird because,

Again,

Who does this?

Who asks these questions?

But it's like going straight into body sensations,

Just feeling the energy here.

This is reality.

There's something here that's just being felt.

There's an aliveness.

Every word I'm saying about it is no longer reality.

So I just have to use words because I don't want to mime this whole thing.

But the words are no longer reality.

The words are pointing to something.

But there just is an energy.

There's just an aliveness.

That is who we are.

That is real and it's immediate and it's in our actual experience.

It's not just in our imagination.

And it is so unbelievably beautifully feelable.

In fact,

It feels really good to feel even when our mind is saying,

Oh,

I'm nervous or my nervous system is activated or there's a lot of energy here.

I don't know.

There's just,

I think maybe for me,

I spent so long trying to think my way out of that that I don't care what the energy is.

It feels so much better to just feel and be grounded in what's real right this very second.

The only second there ever is right now.

This feels so much better than being off in some ghost-like images and stories.

So we come into our body.

We come into sensory information.

Sometimes I'll just pull all my attention out of the fantasies and just pull attention into one of the senses or into all of the senses.

You can just immerse in in seeing.

No thought,

No labels.

It's not what are you seeing?

What's going on?

It's just seeing.

And you start to get this feel for how fluid and seamless the whole thing is.

Hearing.

And they aren't even separate.

I mean,

The mind wants to even separate all of these sensory things,

Right?

But there's just this one beautiful flow of life.

Seamless,

Fluid,

Always changing,

Always here,

So feelable,

So amazing,

No problems in it.

And when our attention goes into that,

Life is so totally different.

And of course our attention leaves,

Right?

Attention leaves all the time.

We're conditioned to do that.

We're super mind identified in general.

But we can keep pulling it back and it makes a massive difference.

We start to get so much more comfortable and just familiar with reality when we let our attention get sucked into that rather than when it's,

You know,

When we know that our attention,

We can feel our attention is off into fantasy land.

So we can just do that.

And I'll do that and walk around like that and then a thought will arise.

And when a thought arises,

It's like,

Okay,

I get my little fishing rod out,

Like,

Let me reel you in and pull it closer.

What are you?

What is this?

So say there's a thought that says,

I feel uncomfortable.

There's some discomfort here.

Okay,

How do I know?

How do I know I feel uncomfortable?

It's a weird question because the mind just says,

You just do.

You just know.

What do you mean,

How do you know?

You feel uncomfortable.

You just feel it.

No,

How?

Really,

Like,

What's telling me?

So I'll go into my body and maybe there's some contraction in my stomach,

Some heaviness in my chest.

Again,

In my stomach,

In my chest,

These are concepts too,

Right?

That's the mind placing it somewhere.

That's fine.

So I just note that.

Like,

Okay,

There's some energy here.

How does it,

How does the leap happen from this energy to I am uncomfortable?

I don't know.

I don't know,

But it does,

You know?

And so you kind of look and maybe you notice your mind thinking like,

Oh,

I need to get out of here.

I need to do something else.

Where's my phone?

I need to eat something,

Drink something,

Right?

All the stuff the mind does,

Maybe that's what's doing it.

It's kind of sending this signal of,

Oh no,

There's discomfort here.

But just look at that.

Like,

What is that?

What is that thought made of?

What is this picture in my mind?

If it's a picture in my mind of myself and some other feeling,

What is that made of?

I have no clue.

I have no idea.

If it's a voice in my head that says,

Just get out of here.

Go do something else.

You know,

This isn't good.

You don't feel great.

What is that sound made of?

Or that,

You know,

The knowing,

Like the hearing of this sound that's only happening in imagination.

Pull it closer.

What is it?

I don't know.

And isn't it crazy to see how little we know?

Like really,

The more we dive into reality and swim through it and feel the textures of it and get so curious of it like this,

The only thing that always comes back for me,

And I'm open to some answer showing up,

But so far it's always led me back to,

I don't know.

I don't know what this human experience is.

I don't know what's going on here.

I have no idea,

Which makes sense,

Right?

Because only the mind knows.

The mind knows everything.

It thinks it does.

That's the mind's job is to know.

But before the mind,

It's fully unknowable,

Completely unfindable,

Untouchable,

Ungraspable,

And yet fully alive,

Which is also really weird.

It's very paradoxical.

It's like it's here and alive and you can't deny it.

It's self-evident that there's experience happening,

Yet where is it and what is it and what is it made of?

I don't know.

And I just think this mystery,

Letting this be a mystery,

Can you feel the freedom in that?

Roger didn't have any mystery in his life.

He knew exactly what his problem was and he thought he knew how to fix it,

Even though he had all the evidence in the world that that hadn't worked.

He thought he knew.

We think we know,

But when we're suffering,

Especially when we're suffering,

Isn't it amazing to be in this mystery and say,

Hey,

Yeah,

There's something here.

It's obvious.

It's evident.

But I don't know what it is and I don't know anything about it and I don't know what it means and I don't know what to do about it.

And to also at the same time as we're swimming in this,

You cannot help but see and feel and notice that everything is moving all the time so quickly.

How could it be that we possibly need to go out and try to make some change happen?

I mean,

How could that even be?

We would have to be really camped out and we are often and we do.

We have to be very camped out in imaginary stories and concepts to think that we need to go out and make change happen.

Because when we just look at reality right here,

It's changing all the time.

And that mystery,

That not knowing,

That dipping into reality and just watching how wholly,

Utterly,

Unfindable,

Ungraspable it is,

Is the ultimate liberation.

When we can feel what's here,

Like it's already here,

It's real,

What could be bigger liberation than that?

We think liberation is going to look some other way.

We think liberation is when this feeling doesn't show up anymore or when I get this thing figured out or when my relationship changes or when my life changes.

All concepts.

This is liberation.

It has to be.

It's the only thing that's real.

It has to be.

And we just don't look at it and feel into it enough.

But when we do,

And again from this curious place of what even is this,

And we start to see how little we know about it,

Then we really start to feel just how completely and utterly free and feelable all of this reality is.

Thank you.

Reviews

Any, I am really grateful for all of your talks! So so helpful. Listening to your podcasts as well.

I need to listen to this again and again to sink in fully. Thank you , I intuitively know it's the truth ❤️

I love this audio so much and could listen to it over and over. Amy shares such a profound reminder of what’s actually real. We innocently spend so much time believing thoughts that seem true but are pure imagination. With a bit of curiosity and pulling these thoughts in closer, like Amy suggests, one can start to see them for what they are. It’s exciting to consider how much lighter the experience life can be.

Thank you for sharing your insights, Amy. I always love hearing you talk- your natural warmth and curiosity shine through! I resonated with your question: “How do we solve a problem that only exists in imagination?” It’s so funny… only by further engaging our imagination! 🤣I love how you point us in the direction of just floating in the mystery of life- that is such an expansive feeling.