From Merging To Self-Definition - Insight Timer Live

In our childhoods, many of us got the message that we needed to shrink, disappear, or merge with others to earn their love. In this recording of an Insight Timer Live from January 2022, Catherine shares how we cultivate a solid sense of self in our relationships, and show up to be loved in our fullness. We can have needs, contrary feelings, and desires, and be loved even more deeply for it.

Transcript

Welcome to From Merging to Self-Definition.

Many of you,

Most of you today who are here,

Who are listening are deep empaths,

Incredibly loving,

Caring,

Connected individuals.

And it's hard for us to exist on this planet,

First of all,

But it's really hard for us to be in relationship.

And I'm talking about intimate relationship mostly today,

But you can substitute any kind of relationship,

Friendship,

Work relationship.

And I think that there are a lot of reasons why we're empaths,

Right?

I believe in my bones that we're just born that way.

I think that we're old souls,

If you want to use that terminology.

We're born with this innate sense of oneness,

Right?

That doesn't really make sense for us to be separate.

No.

So I believe that we are born that way.

We are born highly sensitive and empathic.

And I also believe that many of us grow up in a way,

In a family dynamic,

Where that natural gift of ours gets strengthened because of the dynamic.

And the dynamic for most empaths that I know is that we took on the responsibility of being the caretaker,

Often to our mothers,

Or to any parent who seemed like they needed help.

You know,

Any parent who we really sense deeply was suffering.

It's like we just honed in on that suffering totally unconsciously and automatically,

Right?

And we got this message that it was our responsibility to take care of that person.

To be like a counselor,

To be the healer or the parent of our parents or parent or caregiver.

So just take a breath and note if you feel like that's you in some way.

Like,

Did you grow up born a sensitive soul and then also it's like,

We have these gifts and then we use that gift to survive,

Right?

We use that gift to thrive and to fit in into the family dynamic that we sense.

So I'm seeing a lot of resonance in the chat with this description.

I don't believe that being an empath means there's something wrong with you.

I believe there's something right with you,

Right?

You have this innate sense of oneness,

The truth of this universe.

And so it's really hard to be in separate bodies.

And so of course,

Of course you took on that role when you sense that suffering of someone you love so deeply.

Right?

Of course you took on that role.

So of course,

You never went through a certain stage in your development where you discovered your boundary,

Where you discovered your no,

Where you discovered this is where I start and where I stop.

Because here's the thing about being parentified or the caregiver,

The emotional healer to our parents is that we tend to not have gone through the temper tantrum stage in our toddler development.

We got the message that that just wasn't,

It wasn't safe,

It wasn't okay,

It wasn't our role to say no when we felt no in our bodies to have opinions that were different from our caregivers to just to differentiate ourselves,

Right?

So when I talk about self definition,

I'm talking about our ego,

Like your your healthy sense of a separate human self.

Because remember,

We're,

And this is what Megan Watterson says in the amazing book,

Mary Magdalene revealed,

I highly recommend it.

So Megan Watterson says she's learned from the Mary Magdalene text that a deep truth of reality is that we are 100% divine and 100% human.

And I love that because it gives full permission to fully lean into your human differentiated self.

And also to know that it is also true that we're one right one this is also true but when we're in this human body we also 100% need to learn to be separate.

And being separate means having a healthy ego and there's a lot of verbiage in the spiritual community about how we should dissolve the ego,

Right how we should do away with the ego.

And at a very high level very zoomed out level Sure,

You know,

I see where that's going and I,

I want to let go of grasping to you know I have deep roots in Buddhism myself.

And also as a trauma survivor,

And as somebody who's who operates as an incredibly deep empath in the world.

The most healing thing I've done for myself is actually develop my ego,

Develop my sense of self,

A healthy sense of a differentiated self with her own feelings,

Needs,

Needs,

Can you imagine having needs.

Probably that's hard for you right with her own feelings,

Needs and desires and preferences.

Right.

This is what it means to have a healthy ego a healthy sense of self it's it doesn't mean you're going to be egotistical or selfish it just simply means you're comfortable in your own skin.

Imagine that,

And that you can express your authenticity to others.

While also maintaining connection in the relationship and not fearing that you're going to be rejected.

So can you imagine that just breathe for a moment into.

I wonder what it would feel like to be able to express my needs to others,

Express my true feelings to others.

And also trust that they're going to love me 100% just as much.

Can you breathe in your body and just open to that possibility.

That is possible.

And to to illustrate this,

I'm going to tell a couple of stories from my relationship.

Now my marriage.

And this first story you're going to be familiar with.

If you,

If you get my email newsletter,

I think about six months ago I sent out this story.

And so story I tell sometimes because it's just it's pretty hilarious but it's incredibly relatable for a lot of people.

The story is this so in 20.

Let's see.

2016.

I just started dating,

My current husband and his name is Carlos.

Carlos is an incredibly warm enthusiastic loving person,

And he has this unbelievable sense of self efficacy meaning like he really believes he can do anything,

You know,

Anything he puts his mind to.

And so when we first started dating.

He was doing this remodel on the home that he owned in Seattle here and,

And we had plans that morning let's say it was a Saturday morning at 10am.

We'd made plans that we were going to hang out the whole day and I was going to drive over to his house at 10 in the morning on that Saturday we were going to hang out.

So,

The day rolls around and it's Saturday at 10am and I drove to his house and I showed up at his door.

I knocked on his door and I didn't hear anything for a long time.

And,

And then here comes Carlos and he opens the door,

And he's covered in drywall dust,

And he just is looking at me with deer in the headlights,

Look in his face.

And he said,

I forgot.

I forgot that we were coming today I,

I stayed up the whole night working on this remodel,

I forgot.

So here's the moment of truth right.

So we had made plans.

I arrived,

He forgot.

Now what's happening in my body at this time,

Because I have a choice right.

And I'm sure many of you are feeling this as empaths like in your own body as I described this story,

Do I take it on and make it my fault.

Or do I say,

Oh,

That's right,

It is your fault.

You're the one who forgot,

Which one would you do.

I think I know the answer.

Because it's what I did.

So,

Here's what I did which is what I'm sure many of you would do as well.

I just looked at him I said,

Oh my goodness,

I am so sorry I should have confirmed with you over text.

This is totally my fault.

I'm going to go home,

Like you take care of yourself you didn't sleep last night.

So just go into your room take a nap take care of yourself I'll just go and we'll,

We'll make a date for another time.

Just took it on,

Took it on,

Took it on,

And the truth was it didn't even occur to me to do anything else.

It didn't even occur to me that I could have stood there and just held my ground and been like yeah that sucks.

That sucks that you forgot and I feel really disappointed about that,

You know.

So,

Here's the amazing thing and why this is an incredible story and shows so much about Carlos.

So here I am on his doorstep taking it on myself.

And he just looks at me and he gets just like in this increasingly confused look on his face as he's looking at me.

And he's like and he stops me at some point he says,

He says,

Catherine.

Look,

I have stopped,

And he used the full word.

He's like,

I have stopped.

You get to say that you're frustrated with me.

This is my fault.

And here's what happened in my body.

It was like,

It was like a computer program just saying does not compute,

Right.

It was like a program running on the wrong operating system or something.

It was like something was happening in my body and I just had no idea what happened to me.

Because nobody had ever said this to me in my entire life.

Nobody,

This is 2016,

This is not that long ago,

Right.

Nobody had ever told me that I could actually say I'm frustrated.

And so I know I was the deer in the headlights just looking at him.

And you all,

I couldn't say it.

I just stood there and I stared at him and I was like.

And my body was going nuts.

Like I just felt like this huge pressure in my chest.

Because the truth was is deep down in a submerged place within me.

I was enraged,

Right.

I would have never been able to tell you in that moment that I was angry.

But deep down there was resentment.

I did feel resentment,

Right.

I did feel resentment that he forgot.

But it was so packed down that I couldn't access it in my automatic response to the situation,

Right.

So I just like kept saying.

Well I just felt this huge pressure in my chest that was closing my throat.

My body didn't know how to do it.

It was like I was a baby learning to talk.

I just couldn't get it out.

And here's another reason why Carlos is amazing.

He just looked at me and he's like,

Do you,

I see that this is really hard.

It's really hard for you to say this.

Would you like me to help you say it?

And I was like,

Yeah,

Yeah.

Terrified,

Right.

And he actually put his hands on my shoulders.

And like in just the kindest,

Most gentle,

Non-forcing way.

He was like,

He was like,

Okay,

Say this with me now.

I'm frustrated with you.

And I was like,

And we said this several times and he just like midwifed me through this process of setting a boundary.

And I was crying.

I mean at this point I was like,

Because here's what was happening in my body.

It was like the infant part of me who never realized she could say no or express her own contrary feelings.

It's like that infant part of me was just terrified that I was going to be abandoned.

Right.

Like the feeling was so overwhelming that I know it came from a pre-verbal place in my body,

You know.

And he just was so absolutely gentle and patient with me.

And I finally got it out and I said,

I said just through choking sob,

I said,

I'm frustrated with you.

And I was just like,

I got it out.

And it was almost like I gave birth to something in that moment.

And that birth was a healthy sense of self,

Was self-definition,

Was an ego,

Right?

Somebody who could stand and have her own feelings and needs that wouldn't put the relationship in jeopardy.

And Carlos was,

He was just standing there looking at me with so much love.

While I told him I was frustrated with him.

And so this was six,

Seven,

Eight,

Nine,

Ten,

Eleven,

This was now six years ago,

Right?

We've been married for three years now.

And I'll fast forward to what it's like now.

And now I still struggle with this sometimes.

But I'm also completely capable now of telling him when I'm frustrated with him without the choking and the sobbing.

So this is a and the feeling in my body is safety.

The feeling in my body is freedom.

You know,

Fred Rogers,

I know many of you are not from the United States,

But there's a figure that's extremely beloved in our culture,

In our country named Fred Rogers or Mr.

Rogers,

Children's television host from the 70s,

80s,

90s.

And Fred Rogers sang a song about about this that,

That I'm learning to shout and getting it out and the truth will set me free.

Right.

I'm learning to shout.

I'm learning to say when I'm mad,

I'm learning to say when I'm sad and the truth will set me free.

And that's what Rich,

The Tom Hanks movie is a fictional movie about Mr.

Rogers.

Yeah,

But there's also a documentary called Won't You Be My Neighbor?

That's an actual documentary about him,

I think.

Anyway,

So this is what freedom and safety feels like in relationship is having myself and having my partner too.

I can have myself and have my partner too.

So Brene Brown says the boundaries are the distance at which I can love myself and you at the same time.

So Brene Brown says the boundaries are the distance at which I can love myself and you at the same time.

And I like to define boundaries as expressing our authentic feelings,

Needs and desires while letting go of the outcome.

So boundaries as expressing our authentic feelings,

Needs and desires while letting go of the outcome.

And thanks Azalea,

You said Prentiss Hemphill said that quoted by Brene Brown.

Thanks.

Yeah,

So that about boundaries are the distance at which I can love both myself and you as well at the same time.

Prentiss Hemphill,

Thank you.

Yeah,

And then my definition is expressing our authentic feelings,

Needs and desires while letting go of the outcome.

Because right when if I was not letting go of the outcome,

Here's what it would be.

It would be control and control is aggression,

Not assertiveness.

Right,

Setting boundaries is assertive because we're letting go of the outcome and expressing ourself.

Right,

Like I'm just saying I'm frustrated.

I'm not saying I'm frustrated in order to make Carlos feel a certain way or make him do a certain thing.

Right,

If I was doing it that way,

It would be control,

It would be manipulation,

It would be aggression.

I want to be assertive,

Not aggressive.

And many of us,

Especially if you've been socialized as female,

We have no idea that there is a distinction there.

Right,

We're so terrified of having an opinion or saying no,

Or expressing ourself that we believe if we did it would be aggressive.

Right,

But actually not,

It's assertive.

Oh,

Rich,

Is it helpful to use nonviolent communication for expressing these?

Absolutely 100%,

It's my favorite way and you actually,

You went somewhere I was going to go today anyway.

Because NVC or nonviolent communication has been the key for us in our marriage and we use it all the time.

And so,

Nonviolent communication,

The short,

Short story about it is that it's an extremely well known,

Well used form of communication by Marshall Rosenberg from the 80s.

And it's been used in diplomacy,

It's basically used in situations of conflict or difference.

And it has four stages.

The first is you make an observation.

When I see you doing this,

And then you say you're feeling,

I feel this way,

Then a need because I need blah.

And then the fourth step is,

Would you be willing to and then you make a behavior change request.

And,

Rich,

If you could write those four stages down if you wouldn't mind,

I think that'd be really helpful for people that observation feeling need and behavior change request.

So,

I do want to say so that's like,

I could say a whole,

I could do a whole live about that right but I just want to make a note of that that that is if you're wondering how,

How to express your authentic feelings needs and desires while letting go of the outcome look into Marshall Rosenberg's nonviolent communication.

Just Google it,

You'll find all those four steps there.

There's a lot of other places I want to go today including practice with you all so I can't explain all those in detail but that's all for you there on the internet.

And it's not easy,

Just as Rich said it's very uncomfortable.

I remember that growth is never comfortable,

Right,

Like is it,

Is it comfortable for a butterfly or caterpillar to bust out of its cocoon when it's becoming a butterfly probably not.

And I think we tend to conflate sometimes safety with comfort,

We say I don't feel safe doing that when actually we're really just uncomfortable right actual not safety is,

Is a whole other story,

And that's extremely important to me to respect as a trauma informed practitioner but becoming comfortable or becoming never comfortable but becoming able to hold discomfort in your body is I believe the single most important thing to the future of humanity.

In some ways,

Because we all need to grow,

And that we all need to be more vulnerable in order to receive what we need and give what's needed to our world and vulnerability is uncomfortable and vulnerability also means expansion.

Right when we're vulnerable.

We're growing into that soft flexible growing edge that we have.

That's why it's uncomfortable.

So,

Here's the practice that,

And thank you rich for stating those four steps by the way of nonviolent communication.

Here's a practice I'd love to do with you today is we're going to be doing an exploration into an area of your life in a relationship in any kind of relationship where you feel resentment.

Because here's what's so beautiful about resentment is resentment is a compass that tells us when we violated a boundary that we need very much,

Or when a boundary is being violated,

You know,

In the world,

Or by other people that we need very much to be intact in order to love ourselves.

Right.

Okay,

Hope I really want to address those.

Okay,

We'll practice now okay.

Observe that you think it will observe that you gave credit to a white person for quote,

So Bernie Brown right for a quote that came from Prentice Hemphill who was black feeling he claustrophobia stomach sinking need apology behavior change request double check sources before quoting saying with full respect and love well thank you so much hope for your courageous like how courageous of you to put that in the chat,

And to make that request to me and I truly and deeply apologize for that miss quotation,

And I read,

Bernie Brown's reason book right Atlas of the heart,

And,

And I was not aware that Prentice Hemphill was black.

I read in that in her entry in Bernie Brown's entry in that book on boundaries,

That there was the Prentice Hemphill that somebody like I just remember that that definition that boundary is the distance at which I can both love myself,

And you at the same time.

And it's true you know you're right that in the back of my mind I wondered if was Bernie Brown quoting somebody else,

Or was that her original wording,

And I wasn't entirely sure,

And it would have been more true and honest of me to have said you know I'm not sure if this is Bernie Brown's exact original wording or if this was somebody else and I should have said something like if anyone here knows who originally said this,

Please let me know.

But you're right I didn't do I didn't double check that and I'm really sorry hope and I really truly grateful to you for having this beautiful example embedded in this live today right.

And I want to ask you hope if there's anything else that I can do to support you about that,

And how your body is feeling right now and how your heart is feeling,

I hope so you say I feel so much better having expressed that Yeah,

And I also want to acknowledge hope that it is so common and I am certainly guilty of this,

As are all people,

Especially people in white bodies,

So guilty of marginalizing minimizing ignoring,

Not seeing the voices and contributions of black body people and all indigenous and people of color and I apologize for that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I want.

I want everybody to just sit with what's happening in your body right now.

I'm crying out of just gratitude not white women's tears.

You know for feeling guilty but but I'm crying just from,

I feel the tears in my eyes just from gratitude that hope was so courageous and bring up that example so that we could all experience that in real time.

Right.

Yeah.

And so whatever was happening in your body during that exchange,

And during,

You know my response,

Just really acknowledge it and know that there's no wrong way to feel,

And of course you might feel pressure or fear or just a lot of discomfort you might have and people wondered you know how is Catherine going to react or how's hope going to react and just,

Just sit with whatever.

There's no wrong way to feel.

Yeah.

And know that I have,

I have and I continue to do a lot of personal work on anti racism and it's,

I want you to know that this was not automatic for me,

Like,

I was not always able to hold capacity for my being wrong,

Right,

Or my missing something or my doing something that contributed to racism,

Or overlooking marginalized voices right.

It was,

This is this has taken years and years of capacity building for me to have to like stay in my center,

While acknowledging wrongdoing,

My own wrongdoing,

Especially in a racialized situation,

And I will say that when I first started doing this work like that,

I would have a lot more of an emotional response and a lot more of a tendency to run or feel guilt and go to that space and really make it about me,

Right,

But.

So,

I just want to say that if you are feeling right now that if you heard my response and feel like you couldn't do it just know that this is a muscle that you practice and this is what it looks like to have capacity for discomfort.

Alright,

So let's get into our practice today everybody.

And if you have more,

More questions or reflections about anything that's been coming up today just know that I do stay after the hour for about 10 or 15 minutes.

So,

You know,

After like 10am.

And Pacific time of course.

So if there's anything that's the fields residual for you or you want to discuss more,

Please stick around and save your questions for them but I do want to move into our practice for today.

So think,

Think in your life and your relationships about where you feel resentment.

And I think,

I think I was,

I think where I left off is that resentment is a beautiful compass that shows us where we need a boundary.

Right.

And a lot of empaths and highly sensitive people who I know have a lot of resentment in their experience.

And I know like resentment is a familiar feeling in our bodies.

As we navigate through life,

Navigate through life with other people.

And so just maybe you've already had a chance to think about this but just take one moment here to name in your mind.

Maybe that person maybe across from you who you feel resentment around,

Or maybe a situation that you feel resentment around or maybe a world state.

Right.

Like we've touched on racism today with I mean there's so much in our world right now.

I could break into a million pieces right now but I'm going to stay in my center so much in our world right now where you might feel a lot of resentment.

I'm sure you do.

But I would say that for the purposes of this particular exercise,

You're going to get more out of it if you stick with a personal relationship if that feels possible for you.

Just acknowledging if it's true for you that there's a lot of really big big big scale resentment about things in our world and systems and all of that,

But also being curious is there a personal relationship in which I feel resentment.

And so I'll tell you,

As you,

As we now transition into practice for just a few minutes today for about 15 minutes.

I asked you to just make yourself comfortable seated or lying down as I give an overview of the arc of what we're going to be doing so you can assess if you'd like to participate right now or maybe wait until later,

Whatever feels right for you.

So again,

Make yourself comfortable as I say a few words here that what we're going to be doing is going from this resentment and closing the eyes if it feels right.

And again,

This is just an overview I'm not guiding this at this moment,

But just I'll invite you to close your eyes and really find yourself in that time and place that situation or in that relationship,

Across from the person that you feel resentment with.

So if I was doing it based on the story that I told I would like just imagine myself on Carlos's doorstep and looking at him,

And I would just really drop into my body at that place in time and then I'm going to invite you to name like really feel and name the body sensations that were part of that resentment,

Like the body sensations that told you you're resentful.

So maybe it's like pressure or heat or tightness something like that.

And then what we're going to do is also name the emotions that are there.

If there's anything else.

What we're going to do is I'm going to invite you to invite your psyche to just show you invite you to journey back in time to an age that you were earlier in your life,

Where you felt a similar kind of set of body sensation and emotion and we're just going to go with whatever impression arises for you first and then we're going to do some really deep loving validation and meeting of needs of that younger version of you it's a can be a really beautiful beautiful experience.

And also,

It might feel too much right now for you or you might not want to do this kind of regressive work.

So just assess for yourself,

What feels right like maybe you want to do this later in your journal instead of a direct experiential meditation like there are plenty of ways to.

Yeah,

So many ways to do this.

Alright,

So I hope you've all made yourself comfortable for this little practice into resentment today.

So whenever you're ready now.

Seated or lying down.

Go ahead and close your eyes if that feels right.

Feel where your body meets your chair or the surface you're on.

Feel that you're supported here.

You might even kind of bring your hands to your body to really just feel grounded feel that you are in a body right now.

You have a container here.

Just take some breaths.

Maybe it feels nurturing for you to do this whole process with your hand on your heart or wherever you identify as your center.

As you now drop into that time and place with that person who you feel resentful around.

It might be a specific memory or just a general thing that happens a lot just with a particular person to see that person across from you or with you now and drop right in there into that feeling of resentment.

And now invite that feeling to be very present in your body.

What is the name in your mind.

What are the body sensations that make me know that I'm feeling resentment.

What does resentment feel like in my body.

If resentment had a home somewhere in your body where might that be naming for yourself.

The sensations that you feel with resentment,

Allowing the edges to soften around these sensations so that they're free to be as big as they need to be right now.

So that you have permission that it's okay to feel resentment.

Does it feel heavy or light,

Warm or cool,

Open or closed.

Are there any images that naturally arise for this resentment.

Somebody said a rejected hole in my heart.

It's really beautifully accurate and tragic illustration.

I wonder what the image would be for you of this resentment.

To name now are there any other emotions that are swirling around.

Maybe there's some body tension that has cropped up and just notice if that's the case and have intention to soften.

And now,

Really trusting in just saying yes by the way to any emotions that come up like yes you're here and it's okay that you're here.

Just trusting in yourself,

Really make a note of this entire constellation of feeling and body sensation that's present here,

Noting it as you would use like a bookmark.

See it and feel it in your mind's eye.

Very tenderly with full trust in your soul and your mind to show you what's true.

Allow yourself to be guided back to a time,

Place and relationship in your early life,

Where you felt this very same or similar constellation of body sensation and feeling.

You're allowing your heart to just show you what's true as a first impression.

You're not thinking about what makes the most sense what seems similar in your past you're allowing your psyche to intuitively go there now.

And when you're there.

Feel now with a smaller version of your body.

What's real here.

Looking across and no noticing who's here with me.

Who is this feeling directed towards in my life.

Just making a note,

There's no right or wrong.

Just know what this small body is feeling and it might be too much to feel and if so,

Know that you do not need to feel all of this.

Just feel as much as,

As also feels like you can be present with them.

Now we're going to be switching gears in our inner space.

So now you're going to be leaving the body of this young version of you and instead inhabiting the body of the strongest and most loving version of yourself.

I call this the empathic witness self.

When you're at a respectful distance now looking at your younger self.

You're not running up to them or telling them anything or hugging them it's very important that you're at a distance and you're witnessing them.

So you're now fully in this body of your empathic witness self.

Noticing what you notice about your young self here.

What's their body language.

Note how they're feeling and feel in your heart,

This open curiosity and deep compassion for them for whatever they're going through.

Just gazing at them you might find it's common for people to kind of dissociate at this time or get distracted so if you notice that it's hard to really see and feel your younger self here just acknowledge that this is hard and see if you can come back and look again at them.

And just imagine the softness in your heart expanding toward them,

Melting.

As if you were to see a child in your own life.

Noticing what they're experiencing as if this wasn't you,

But a child who you love.

Feel your heart responding in that way.

This Oh sweetheart.

I see you.

I see you.

We're going to be validating a couple of the things that you know they're going through because you felt it in your own version of their little body.

So for example if they feel all alone you're going to reflect back to them.

Let them go down and just take a breath and let that hit your heart now.

Or if they're really scared say something like I see that you're really scared.

You're feeling yourself in your own empathic heart just reflecting this to them that you see them.

You feel them.

You know them for what they're really going through.

So just take a little more breath of this.

And now we're going to be asking them a question,

And just going with whatever the first impression of their answer is.

What do you really need.

What do you really need.

If they don't know then continue to validate that it's okay that you don't know.

It's okay of course you don't know.

And just stay in that space of openness to that permission,

But it's okay that they don't know.

But if they do know what they need.

If it's something general like love or protection ask them a follow up question now of how would you love for me to show you that right now.

Or if they've told you exactly what they need see sense and feel yourself meeting that need for them right now.

Breathing,

Noticing how your own adult body is responding to meeting this need for them if that's what you're doing.

It might be hard.

And that's okay just breathe.

Noticing any body tension and softening that where you can really feeling what is it like to meet this need for them.

And then how are they responding or changing.

As you meet this need.

I know my neighbors dogs are barking.

Just use the barks as a cue to keep present with yourself here.

And whenever that feels complete enough for now you can ask them the follow up question is there anything else that you need,

And then see sensor feel yourself meeting that need now.

Coming back now very slowly.

As you offer one last question to your younger self,

Knowing that the healing has already happened.

There's nothing better or worse here but offer them the choice that they can either stay where they are if they're totally comfortable there,

Or they can come back with you where you are,

Knowing that it's not better if they come back it's just different.

The healing has already happened in your witnessing of them with a loving heart.

So just sense now do they want to stay or come with you and honoring that decision fully and completely.

And then place hands lovingly on your heart or elsewhere on your body and start to breathe yourself very gradually back into your adult body in this place and time in the room that you're in feeling so much gratitude for your younger self for showing up and teaching you today about need about having needs.

Whenever you're ready,

You can open your eyes if they were closed and look around your space now.

Noticing that you're right here in this body at this time.

Take deep breaths and maybe putting your hands on your body,

Including your back by noticing I'm here.

As you breathe and take any movement that feels needed now.

As you notice now what's happening in your body.

I want to let you do it,

Just do a very quick experiment in,

In closing of our practice today and just very quickly bring into your mind's eye and your heart.

Bring that person back with him you felt resentment.

See yourself across from them.

And now imagine holding your heart.

As you look at them and knowing that you're anchored in yourself.

You can have needs and be loved at the same time.

Just knowing that that's possible for you like do you feel that,

Do you feel that you can hold yourself.

You can have both feet on the ground and look at this person and still be in relationship with them.

It's okay to have needs.

It's okay that I need.

It's okay that I feel I can be here and with them at the same time.

Yeah,

Kate,

As you said to I can have needs and be loved at the same time.

Yeah.

Because most of us did not get that impression growing up right.

Come on back slowly feeling into that statement I can have needs and be loved at the same time.

I can have needs and be loved at the same time.

And actually I can have needs and be even more deeply loved for who I really am.

I can have needs and be even more deeply love for who I am.

Yeah,

People are saying it helps to say those phrases out loud.

So if that feels right for you,

You can try that.

I can have needs be even more deeply loved at the same time.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I can have needs and be more deeply loved for who I am,

Whatever way of saying it feels the most powerful for you,

Like what the medicine you need.

I know that the more I have personally put this into practice in my marriage,

For example.

Excuse me.

The more freedom I feel to be myself,

And the more of me I can show for Carlos to love,

You know,

Carlos is my husband for those of you who missed the story that I started with today.

Because many of us,

So those of you who know my talk on insight timer called codependency and loneliness,

You know that one.

So if this talk has landed with you today I highly recommend my recorded talk on my teacher profile called codependency and loneliness.

Because for those of us who don't feel like we can have needs and be loved I mean this is often at the root of codependency.

We feel very lonely,

Because the connection there is this that if we don't feel like we can show up with our authentic feelings needs and desires and be loved.

We don't show who we really are we don't show ourselves and thus we will always feel lonely.

Because and wonder why we,

Why we feel lonely when we're sitting next to this person on the couch,

Who loves us.

The reason is we're not showing up.

You know we're,

It's us like I've worked with a lot of,

I'm talking about heterosexual relationships here of course but I worked with cisgender hetero relationships but I've worked with a lot of women who complain about their partners,

But when we really dive deep,

It's actually them,

Who's not showing up for who they are,

They're terrified of having needs and feelings and so they don't give their partner a chance.

And this happens across the spectrum of relationship across gender and gender identity and sexual orientation of course that there's sometimes one person in the relationship who holds back themselves and then wonders and kind of blames their partner when actually,

Maybe that partner would love for them to express themselves more,

Right.

So thank you so much for all the donations everybody it's,

It's a thrill to see such a string of donations because it tells me that this has helped you.

So thank you so much for for that today.

I am happy to take your questions now if you have anything you'd like to ask or want me to talk more about.

I also know that if,

If this has struck a chord with you.

I talk a lot about this in my email newsletters I send about once a week so you can go to my website to sign up for those if you want to.

That's where I share about all this stuff like I mentioned the story at the beginning was from my email newsletter to so Catherine leggett.

Com or just go to my insight timer teacher profile and the website is there under about.

Or there's lots of stuff here to listen to like the codependency and loneliness talk.

There's also the,

The talk called nervous system retuning for empaths that many of you would find really helpful I think so I didn't even get into the whole physiological component of all of this today but there is one is a nervous system component to being an empath and healing as an empath and having relationships and boundaries as an empath there is a whole physiological layer that we didn't touch on today.

And many of you know this,

But I do have a background to and somatic trauma repair nervous system repair so shadow work is what I do mainly like we practice today together,

And also somatic trauma healing work trauma repair work.

And so you'll see me talk about that on insight timer a lot as well.

So let me turn to the questions here.

So rich says how to decide if the connection or friendship is strong enough to express needs for example at the early dating stage when the emotional investment is not so high.

Yeah,

I mean I wish I could tell you exactly how to navigate that rich.

But I would say,

Let's see.

Has this person earned your vulnerability,

Right.

Has this person earned your expression of needs is there is there enough foundation of trust there in the relationship are you invested in the relationship enough to express your needs and take that risk,

You know,

Because it's quite an emotional risk to do this,

To use nonviolent communication to express your authentic you know feelings needs desires.

So I just wonder which if like,

If you could just tune into your heart and just ask your heart like,

Is it time like is my heart ready for this because I know that to like if we express if we express our need and it's projected that also really hurts.

So,

Has this person earned your trust has this.

Are you committed to wanting to develop this relationship more.

You know,

Like,

I definitely like it.

This only came up for me and Carlos after a few months of dating,

I would say,

You know,

That's just my personal comfort level with it.

Yeah,

So Rich does that make sense we both been very vulnerable with each other,

Then went very silent was quite painful so let me share rich and everyone let me share something that blew my mind,

Like the one of my teachers taught me and this teacher is named Shammily,

Our dog.

She's the head of the awakening women Institute.

Anybody know Shammily.

She's one of like my most favorite teachers and she.

She,

I was in,

I was sitting with her you know in a group practice and asked her the question of like,

Because I was asking her the question of actually being like doing this like being a spiritual teacher who's like,

I consider myself to be a guardian of what I call the undefended heart,

You know,

A guardian of the undefended heart vulnerable like sharing myself sharing my heart,

And I asked her,

Because,

Because,

As you know,

The internet is not a safe place.

Right.

And so showing up in this way with an undefended heart can also be quite painful sometimes when there are those who don't understand or who have different agendas,

And I could say a whole lot about that,

What it's like to show up as a teacher and be a teacher with an undefended heart,

But here's what Shammily told me who blew my mind she said,

Well,

Catherine I have a question for you,

Is your vulnerability perhaps part of your trauma response,

Like do you feel like you can't have boundaries Do you feel like you can't protect yourself,

Or that you have to show up vulnerable,

Show up vulnerability to be loved to be loved by your followers you know quote unquote or like loved by other people do you feel like you can't have boundaries,

You know,

And that blew my mind,

And I was like wow,

Maybe sometimes my online vulnerability is part of my trauma response because I feel like it's a transaction,

Like I have to give my heart my open heart in order to get love back.

So I just asked you to sit with that for yourself,

Like,

Maybe rich or anyone else like,

Your trauma response to open your heart right away,

Maybe too soon,

Because you think you have to offer that kind of transaction only to get acceptance and love back from another person or from,

You know,

Online followers or whatever you're dealing with.

Yeah.

So that's why it's actually the most loving thing I think to hold back at first until you really feel solid like has this person earned my open heart.

Okay,

Let me look,

Look to other questions here.

Kate says almost most important thing in early dating is to stay aware of one's own needs and responses rather than rather than merging or focusing on the other right yes Kate Yeah,

Yeah,

I think that's so wise like using those early dating stages and this,

This also makes sense for for friendship,

When you're just getting to know a new friend right there you actually,

It's a great time to get exquisitely aware of where your boundaries are where you're feeling resentment,

So that not that you're going to express it to the person right away,

Or ever,

But just to know yourself,

Like using that as a way to know yourself better.

Oh,

Bye Esme thanks for being here.

Got to go.

Kate says can the vulnerability be controlling rather than open and self caring actually yes and that's a deep shadow for a lot of us empaths if we're willing to go there and look at it,

Because sometimes we do use vulnerability,

Unconsciously,

To control other people,

Right,

And all control means is we have kind of an unconscious outcome we're going for that they're going to give me love.

Right,

That if I,

And this is under the surface for most of us right we're not trying to control anybody else we don't identify as a controlling person at all but there is,

It's like there's a child part of us that,

Like,

Like I check myself right like before I write an email in my newsletter or something that's really vulnerable I'm like,

Is this,

Why am I doing this,

Like,

Am I doing this to get to get a response from my followers to make them feel something or am I just doing this because I feel like I don't have a choice like it's just flowing out of me and I go for that.

If I feel like I don't have a choice like it's just flowing out of me but it takes a level of really intense emotional maturity and self awareness to be able to even hold that possibility that well I might be using vulnerability to gain an outcome,

You know,

And that's dark,

We don't,

We don't want to be that because that's aggression that's control.

Yeah,

So just breathe into that if you've related to that and know that it's okay.

Right,

Like,

All of us have a dark side.

And it's about integration and permission it's not about,

You know,

Most of us especially who are empaths have an on a spiritual path,

We have over identified with the light and exiled the parts of ourselves that are dark right that do have a tendency to,

To want to control manipulate but just know this,

That there's,

It's not that those parts are evil,

Those parts are children inside of you.

Those parts that are controlling and manipulative are not evil they are children.

So just breathe into that in the same way that my toddler,

My two and a half year old.

She manipulates all the time,

But she's actually not manipulating because her brain isn't capable of it right but that that's just what toddlers do like they just.

That's an appropriate stage of development.

But if we're feeling like we do have a tendency to control manipulate with vulnerability then that's just there's a child part of you that needs your loving attention,

And I invite you to do my meditation on insight timer called shadow work for inner child healing,

Or listen to the talk called retrieve your inner child to really get intimate with them,

So that they don't feel like they have to use those tactics anymore to get love.

Yeah.

Rachel says that reality and behavior came to my attention in the last few months felt yucky to realize it's control manipulation when it's not the intent.

So pull this event this morning.

Oh great,

Rachelle Yeah,

Well that takes to everybody who's recognizing that darkness in yourself just take a breath into that and know that it's not bad,

It's a child part of you.

This is why shadow work is so,

So important and so loving.

And so,

Take so much courage,

Right,

Because we do need to turn towards the parts of ourselves that we want to dis identify from,

You know,

I know I'm not controlling.

I'm not manipulative.

Yeah.

I'm going to try to see if there's any other questions that I missed here and if I missed something please do.

Ask it again.

I want to share it's just like,

I feel so connected all of you today even though it's a very bizarre experience to just open my heart into this dark abyss of the internet,

Where I don't see anybody's faces right except for your little avatars,

Like,

I just see that the little number 224 meditators here.

So I feel very connected nonetheless.

Kate says that feels true that the controlling manipulative parts are child parts I can feel her hope hopefulness that her idea of how to get needs met will work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Becca says,

Oh and Johanna I know you,

Let me,

Let me find your question Johanna if I don't find it quickly maybe you can write it in there but I'm scrolling up here oh I found it.

How to get out of these phases of resentment,

They can be very intense and persistent and it's hard to come out of it and find a connection again yeah Johanna,

That's a great question so we feel a lot of resentment.

How do we,

How do we get over our resentment by doing the practice like we did today,

For example.

And,

But more than anything it's about building capacity for discomfort,

So that we can have the hard conversations that we need to have and set those boundaries that we need because the more boundaries we can set the less resentment will feel right.

I can pretty much say that my life for example,

Is pretty much I mean I'm not even talking about like world issues here but as far as my personal relationships are concerned.

I am pretty much like I'd say 98% resentment free in my life,

And,

And it feels like freedom.

It feels light,

It feels like of course like I get angry like I'm not saying I don't get angry.

I do,

But I talked about it.

And because I talked about it and share with Carlos that I'm angry like it doesn't stay festering and I don't feel resentment,

You know,

So it does get better Karen.

It does get so much better but so here,

Here's what I would recommend Johanna and anyone else who has been really uncomfortable today or maybe you can't even imagine having these hard conversations or using nonviolent communication like what I recommend is like write in your journal about what is the one small step I can take right now to express my authentic feelings needs and desires with someone in my life.

I think one of my friends the writer Catherine gray like I had a podcast interview with her the other day like about motherhood,

Mother pain and she and also boundaries and she she uses great example that one baby step that she takes to set boundaries is this that like she was at the grocery store.

She noticed her arm reaching for creamy peanut butter.

And then she was,

She felt a little resentment about that,

Like,

And she said,

Oh wait,

I actually don't like creamy peanut butter I like crunchy,

It's my husband who likes creamy peanut butter.

So today,

I'm going to take the baby step of getting.

What did she say she likes crunchy peanut butter.

You know,

So I'm talking about baby steps maybe having an actual conversation is too much for you right now.

And so just stating a preference,

You know,

Or buying something that you like instead of buying the thing that your loved one likes or like does that make sense,

Johanna and everyone like I'm talking about baby steps here.

And also to know that it's never comfortable,

Like I hate to say it but it.

It's never comfortable but it does get better,

You know,

It gets more comfortable meaning that you can stay in your center more but you all like my heart still races to this day when I tell my husband that I'm angry about something,

You know my heart still races.

I still get sweaty,

It's just that it's like performing if you've been a performer or like it's like that performance anxiety before you get on stage.

And the more you do it,

You know that yes I'm going to feel this performance anxiety but I know that it gets better when it's on the other side and so you can do it still does that make sense everyone it's just about like getting comfortable with the feeling that like my mom's a professional pianist she says she still gets performance anxiety and she's 72 years old,

You know.

So it's the same with hard conversations,

It's just that you get to trust yourself more.

You know that you get to see like I just have seen over the past six years,

Like six seven,

I don't know years that my head that I can express myself to my husband and you know what he not only doesn't leave me.

He admires me,

And he stays he loves me even more for it,

You know,

And the more I see that and have experienced the more my body can trust it.

And so the more likely I am to speak up in the future.

Exactly Judy like nervous system flexibility it takes practice.

Yeah,

Renee Yeah,

This is about confidence building and I use the term bold a lot in my work.

So for me bold means that you put your own feelings needs and desires and the driver's seat of your life.

That's what it means for me personally to be bold.

You put your own feelings needs and desires in the driver's seat of your life and because you do that.

I mean,

One other way to put that is you have boundaries right bold means having boundaries,

Expressing your authentic feelings needs and desires while letting go of the outcome.

And when we live boldly we set everyone in our life free.

When we live boldly,

We set everyone free,

Because we're not trying to control anyone else with that subtle unconscious manipulation stuff,

Right.

And we also give them permission to express themselves,

And also to be held accountable for their own adult behavior.

Yeah.

Johanna said it makes sense but it's a complex situation for me sometimes my boundaries feel over the top and out of anxiety Yeah,

I can totally see that Johanna so out of anxiety so I would say,

Experiment,

Here's what I would do is experiment with some shadow work around.

And again,

You can use you know shadow work for inner child healing or whatever one of my meditations,

You like to use.

But experiment with a situation where you feel like,

Or a relationship in which you feel like you might have that over the top boundary,

And just journey back to that child part of yourself who's making that boundary and talk to them,

Like,

Send them love like hold them give them that empathic witnessing,

You know,

And in my experience when we do that as a practice,

Those boundaries kind of naturally come back to center,

And they become more true and authentic,

And as I wonder if that would help help for you.

Yeah.

All right,

So Christine says I'm practicing boundary setting and I'm seeing there's nearly no one in my life willing to regard my boundaries I'm facing a massive housecleaning of relationships,

Breathing into that.

How do you know this is valid rather than reactive I'm literally looking at three remaining relationships.

Yeah.

That's interesting.

So that's a really important question right so it sounds like you're wondering if you can trust your boundary setting kind of similar to Johanna like is are these boundaries,

Out of just fear out of my reactive trauma response self,

Or is it a genuine boundary.

And so how I personally like to differentiate between those two is this.

So,

I,

I get real with myself and hold my heart I imagine myself in that situation where I feel like I might be over the top.

And then I sense into it and I sense,

Does this feel urgent does it feel like there's a sense of like urgency like I have to set this boundary right now,

Or does it feel like there's some calm like it's true to set this boundary.

The urgency comes from fear,

That's the reactive self,

That's the trauma response self.

If there's a calm if you don't have to do it right away,

If you can give it some time and sit with it and if you still feel in your heart,

If it has a calm voice that this is true.

This is true for me.

Then you know that that's a true boundary.

Yeah.

Does that make sense,

Christine.

I know it's really tricky and also,

And I know that in our shadow work group here on insight timer that that is our group by the way if you want to join on our shadow work group someone when I asked for you know what's going on for you related to this I was five so I could prepare.

Someone said,

How do you know when,

When it's too much like how do you know when to leave a relationship when someone isn't respecting your boundaries.

And it's true that when we start when we start waking up to our boldness to our boundaries.

You tend to clear house with relationships,

And that's just a really hard part of the process for a lot of people,

Or you start to realize that,

Or,

And you start to realize that wow.

I know when in my life,

Or very few people actually honor my boundaries,

And that's actually really scary.

And I'm starting to heal enough so that I can prioritize myself and my needs and so I'm going to let go of those relationships.

I know I've had to do that with friends,

And of course,

Many boyfriends over my life.

So,

Yeah,

That is,

That is a really hard part of the journey that letting go of relationships part.

And so Johanna says you feel like it's all urgent that you,

That your boundary setting is all urgent.

Yeah.

Yeah,

And it's when we're when that child part of ourselves the reactive part is really active it's it just feels so hard to discern.

Right.

Oh yeah,

I have a whole insight timer talk called how to discern boundaries,

By the way,

Did you see that did you listen to that Johanna,

Maybe that would be helpful.

Yeah.

Okay,

I love it.

He said I'm sending love to the fearful feelings about losing important people by setting boundaries.

Yeah.

Yeah,

That's so real and you know what,

Sometimes we can't let go of relationships,

Even though they're not good for us or it's just not the right time I mean again as a mom I know that things are complicated.

Life is complicated and sometimes we can't let go of relationships or sometimes we need childcare from that grandparent who's toxic,

Or sometimes we are a caretaker for an elder.

Sometimes we're a caretaker for our own parent who's toxic and we can't get away,

You know,

I am I'm getting chills all over because this is also something my husband experiences with his mother.

But life is complicated and what we can do at the end of the day is stay as close to ourselves as we can,

And breathe and notice where we can send ourselves care and notice where we're being called to set a boundary,

Because maybe that boundary is saying,

Expressing your feeling and not letting go of the relationship right or expressing a pair of preference and not letting go of the relationship.

Yeah.

So Lucy says this might have already been answered but how did you know if a need or desire is really your own or if it's coming from your conditioning or caregivers.

So,

That's a really good question.

You can do shadow work around it like really imagine go into one of my meditations and imagine yourself having that need.

And then ask your,

Your psyche to help you journey to where you first have that need or desire.

That'll tell you if it's your conditioning.

But also,

Like,

I mean this is just this is really complex I know I feel that a lot like.

Like for example I've,

I'm going to go pretty soon because we're over,

Over,

Over time but I have felt my whole life that I need to be in front of people in front of groups of people like from when I was a little kid,

I would go to the front of my preschool classroom and pretend to be the teacher.

You know,

And I didn't have many friends,

I was really bullied in school,

Because I just wanted to be the teacher,

You know,

And I've been through a lot of therapists in my life,

And a lot of,

You know,

Personal self judgment about,

Oh that's just my trauma response that I needed attention.

You know,

I'm going to like meet myself and give myself love so I get that attention.

And you know what it's my joy to be teaching in front of people and I wouldn't be here in front of you,

If I didn't honor that desire of mine to be in front of people and I find myself light up when I do.

So,

What I've come to is it can be both.

Yes,

It's a trauma response of mine,

And it's also my purpose.

And in fact,

What if your conditioning pointed you to your purpose in some ways.

Is that possible for you,

You know,

To hold both of those things.

It's not always that way sometimes our needs are conditioning but I think oftentimes there's more complexity there.

Yeah,

So do I just need attention.

Or am I authentically a teacher and that's my purpose,

You know,

When I say that I'm a teacher,

It feels like true and every bone in my body.

And I think that's,

That's one test you could do to is this true like deeply,

Deeply true feeling in your body.

What that need is what that desire is.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah,

Well thank you all so very much I feel really filled up after today's live,

Thank you for everyone,

Sharing your hearts today.

I look forward to,

To seeing you soon on alive again,

Seeing you in our shadow work group and please don't be afraid to make requests to increase your lives in that shadow work group I love honoring those,

Because I know it helps.

So,

Have a beautiful day everybody.

See you soon.

Thank you so much.

Bye bye.

Reviews

Wonderful and so insightful. I felt particularly grateful to Hope and Catherine for the powerful live exchange. Many blessings 💚

Genuinely received so many inspiring and helpful insights from this shared wisdom/talk and eye opening experience.
Thank you 🙏🌹❤️

Meaning breakthrough again. Wrote long note to my SO about it. Thank you, Catherine. I’m learning not to fear or dread shadow work but to feel immense education and wholeness from it!

Thank you Catherine for this rich insightful talk and practice. Gratefully receiving, resonating resiliency. Sending good wishes.