Bhagavad-gita 4th Chapter Glimpse

"Knowledge is learning something every day, and wisdom is letting go of something every day."

Today I'm talking with Syama about the 4th chapter of the Bhagavad-gita, the yoga of knowledge. Syama is commenting on the quote above saying "the yoga of knowledge in the Bhagavad Gita includes the wisdom because that IS the yoga part. It's not just knowledge, but it's the yoga of knowledge. So that's an important point to make in regard to that quote".

Transcript

Hello,

Yogi.

Welcome to my podcast.

I'm Aiko and on this show we explore ways to put spiritual theory into sustainable practice.

Welcome again,

Sham.

Thank you so much.

So let's continue from where we left.

We were saying just a small recap.

We went through chapter 1,

2 and 3 of the Bhagavad Gita.

In chapter 1,

Which is explained the yoga of doubts,

Arjuna is expressing his doubts to Krishna.

In chapter 2,

Which is the yoga of analysis,

There was an overview of the entire Bhagavad Gita and the main point was the analysis between matter and spirit,

Right?

Correct.

Okay.

Then last time we talked about karma yoga in chapter 3,

Which is the yoga of action.

And here we just talk about how someone can be detached from the action itself.

And lately in the Bhagavad Gita we will see also how yoga is also about to be detached from the result of your action,

Right?

Yeah.

Those are like different levels of karma yoga.

And in the chapter after this one,

It will be about the Nishkama karma yoga.

And that's when you are already detached from action and the results,

But you still engage in them because it's your dharma.

So I just read a super beautiful quote yesterday that was saying like that knowledge is learning something every day and wisdom is letting go of something every day.

And I think it's super powerful and it's also very much related with what we are going to see now in chapter 4,

Which is the yoga of knowledge.

Yes.

And of course,

Like in this quote you read,

Like knowledge is the type of knowledge described there is kind of if you detach knowledge from wisdom,

Of course,

The yoga of knowledge in the Bhagavad Gita that includes the wisdom because that's like the yoga part.

It's not just knowledge,

But it's the yoga of knowledge.

So that's an interesting,

An important point to make there in regard to that quote.

So what is happening in this chapter between Arjuna and Krishna?

Yeah.

So in the beginning of this chapter,

Krishna tells Arjuna that he has been speaking this knowledge,

Like teaching this knowledge to the sun god at the beginning of creation of this material world.

And Arjuna then asks him like how is this possible because we are both the same age.

So how could you have taught this at the beginning of creation?

And Krishna tells him that we have both been reborn many times.

But the difference between you and me is that I remember and you forget.

So we just hear some days ago from Mansbro,

Who was also interviewed in this podcast and he's a professor of religious studies in Finland.

He was telling us that there is a connection between the fourth chapter of the Bhagavad Gita and how God is described in the Yoga Sutra,

Which is another very important book for us yoginis.

Can you say something about it?

Yes,

Yes.

This connection here is precisely about this part here in the beginning.

Because God is described very,

Very little,

You can say,

In the Yoga Sutras.

It's only giving a few words,

Kind of distinguishing God from an ordinary soul like you and me.

And one example is we are striving to get enlightened,

But God has always been enlightened.

And it is also said there that he is the teacher of the ancients.

And that is what Krishna is describing here in Bhagavad Gita.

He was teaching this knowledge to the Sun God at the beginning of creation.

And so that is,

So he has always been enlightening others and others have always gotten enlightened.

So that's like the distinction between God and the yogis and yoginis.

And then in the Bhagavad Gita,

How then it's going on in the chapter.

So after that,

Like having said,

Having told Arjuna that they both continually take new births,

Krishna is kind of explaining,

Like he has a different purpose for taking birth than others.

Like we take birth due to karma,

And he takes birth to establish Dharma in the world.

So whenever Dharma is kind of on the downslope,

Krishna comes to restore it.

That's the idea.

Can you explain the concept of Dharma?

Yeah,

So Dharma means to kind of to uphold.

So it's kind of to maintain like balance.

So you could say Dharma is like your duties in this world.

And it is also kind of like a moral,

An ethic to kind of be disciplined and be strong morally to kind of uphold the container that you need for inner spiritual cultivation.

Because if you don't kind of uphold this container,

Like your kind of spiritual efforts will just kind of slip out through the cracks.

So what's the main point of this chapter?

The main point is to point to the value of spiritual knowledge and how to get it.

And how you get it.

Yes,

So as has been kind of pointed out in the beginning here,

Like you get it from a teacher.

And then how to get it is described more towards the end of the chapter.

It's talking about how to approach a spiritual master,

A teacher,

A guru.

And there are three steps there.

You should be submissive.

So that means that you're submissive in front of divine knowledge.

It's like you're not approaching divine knowledge for the sake of kind of pushing your own agenda.

But like you are trying to understand what is God's agenda.

So that is what it means to be submissive.

The second step is to ask relevant questions to the teacher.

And the third is to,

Once you have understood that you engage in service,

So that it's not just some kind of entertainment to hear from the teacher,

But you kind of put it into practice,

Which means service.

So it doesn't necessarily mean service like mopping the floor,

Which could also be done.

And it's a good thing.

But it means to put it into practice and set an example for other people.

That is the way actually to serve the teacher.

That's how you can give something back for something invaluable like that.

So I hear many times people saying that they have many teachers or that they are their own teachers or that the mother earth is their teachers.

So what would you say about it?

Yes.

We all have many teachers and we ourselves can be one of our own teachers.

But since no one has only one teacher,

Since you can't have only yourself as your teacher,

Because it would mean that you already know everything.

And then what is the point of even saying that you are your own teacher?

What can you learn if you already know everything?

But you can of course learn things from your own life experience and learning from your mistakes and also just your own genius.

But it's all part of the web of life.

You are not something isolated,

First of all.

But also it's very easy for us to kind of have blind spots where we need to kind of see things in ourselves that others can see very easily.

So that's just a very simple example of how we need others to gain knowledge.

It's a little bit like going to school.

You can be as genius as you want at six years old but at that age you can't attain university level math.

You first have to learn one plus one and then slowly go ahead and of course it's all up to the teachers to teach you that.

That somehow the intelligence to reach that is inside of you.

But you need some guidance until the university level and then perhaps and hopefully you will become even maybe better than your teacher or anyway you can become a professor yourself.

Is that correct?

Yes and that is like the kind of the ideal relationship when the teacher is kind of just bringing out the genius of the student or like kind of directing and guiding the genius of the student.

It's like a dynamic relationship.

That's very beautiful.

So would you say that everyone needs a teacher in their life or many teachers depending on which stage are in their life?

Yes like one needs to commit and that kind of requires that in a sense that you have one main teacher at first.

Because if you have many teachers and you kind of say that you commit to all of them it's kind of easy to fall into the trap that okay I will follow this part that I like from this teacher but if something is kind of not so easy to do then you say okay well but now I'm following this part from another teacher so you can only like sail around and only accepting the kind of things that are in your comfort zone.

Yes exactly like the things that are not challenging to you.

So it's important to be committed to one teacher to understand like the oneness of the kind of teacher principle and then like you will be able to kind of see that one teacher principle in many teachers so that you are not limited so to speak to one teacher.

So is that thing that you just called teacher principle that is what Krishna is talking about that he taught to the son?

Yeah like you could say that Krishna is the teacher principle he's the he is kind of the the root of the teacher principle that appears in many places and through everything through yourself through every like you can learn to see it and everything.

And what would you say to someone who doesn't believe that Krishna is God?

Then you then you can simply listen to to these things and think think of them as mythology and that can be very liberating because and that's like both for me as speaking now and also for you as the listener that these are teachings that you can you can think of in any way you want you can think of them as as absolutely true you can think of them as a way to as a way to think as a mythology you can think of them in an esoteric and mystical way.

So so in this way like I can be free to speak to speak about God in the way I wish and you can you can be free to to take it the way you want as it kind of suits you.

Thank you.

So what will come next if you can just give two words about chapter five.

Yes something about chapter five the first thing that comes to mind is is the description of of someone who it's called a brahmana in no a pandit the description of a pandit like in in today's world the word pandit is kind of used as a as a derogatory word for like people who think they know it all but so so there is an interesting description of the word pandit in the fifth chapter meaning like someone who is in in knowledge and it means that they a pandit is someone who who sees kind of those who are high up in the social order and those who are really low down in the social order like even so so low down that they are considered to be outside of the social order this is talking about indian culture and and also like a dog and dogs are not very very like well regarded in indian culture but so just like think of like a like a dirty street animal or something and then think of an elephant and all these kind of different beings are seen as the same by someone who is a pundit so that's an important like a so like a real pundit would not you know behave differently towards these different kinds of beings that's very beautiful okay so i think for today it's on and we see you for the next chapter okay looking forward to that thank you thank you i hope this episode fulfilled its purpose of inspiring you if you like it feel free to share it give a review or a rating subscribe and if you have any questions please get in touch at aiko yogareiki.

Com namaste

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