Bhagavad-Gita 15th Chapter

In this episode, my husband Syama and I speak about the fourteenth chapter of the Bhagavad Gita. This chapter deals with something very interesting called “the gunas”. Guna literally means “rope”, and here it refers to the ropes binding the spiritual self to the psycho-physical world of subtle and gross matter.

Transcript

Hello Yogi,

Welcome to my podcast.

I'm Aiko and on this show we explore ways to put spiritual theory into sustainable practice.

Welcome,

Sean.

Thank you so much.

We are here again for chapter 15 of the Bhagavad Gita.

Would you like to give a brief recap from last chapter what we were saying?

Yes.

We were discussing the three qualities of nature called the three gunas.

And maybe the people who listened last time,

Maybe now like this time that has passed since then they've been learning to see these things all around them.

Yeah,

That's quite fun.

Yes.

Like,

For example,

Wanting to improve things is the quality of raja.

I'm just like thinking of things off the top of my head right now.

But then to do it in a sustainable way,

That is sattva.

But then like to like not care at all about improving things or maintaining things that would be than tamaguna,

For example.

Okay,

So what is happening now in chapter 15?

What Krishna is saying to Arjuna?

He is kind of going back to the middle six chapters,

It feels like.

It is much about himself as the supreme person.

Like he is explaining who he is as the kind of as the perfect shelter.

He's saying all these things,

Like for us to be inspired to take shelter in him as he is the shelter of everything.

So to not have temporary shelters,

But something that lasts.

And how the chapter is called?

It's called the yoga of the highest person.

So purushottama yoga,

Purushaya is person,

Uttama is like supreme or the highest and yoga is yoga.

So yoga of the supreme person to connect with the supreme person.

That is the title of the chapter.

And that's what the chapter is about.

Okay,

So where does it start?

Yeah,

So he begins with an interesting image.

He's talking about it about a tree that is upside down.

So like with the roots at the top,

And the crown of the tree at the bottom and,

You know,

Branches,

Branches going everywhere,

And it's,

It's an image of this world.

So he's describing this world to be an upside down tree.

And then of course,

As the commentators of the Bhagavad Gita,

They ask,

Where and where like,

Where can you see an upside down tree?

Can you guess?

Yeah,

Well,

I know.

So maybe let's ask the audience if they can guess and think about it.

Okay,

So you get three seconds to guess.

The audience gets gets three seconds and then you will tell.

Three,

Two,

One.

Well,

The tree is an image of the reflection of a real tree into the water.

Like for example,

There can be a lake or a sea,

Even a beach.

And,

And if you have the tree just on the edge,

And then there is the water,

Then there is the reflection of this tree,

Which is exactly like a tree but upside down because of that.

Yes,

That was that was helpful.

I was thinking about the beach before.

Actually,

Like a small pond or a lake is more easy to,

Yeah,

Like,

So let's say you're standing at one side of a small lake,

And you're looking over to the other side and there are trees on the other side of the lake.

So you will see those trees reflected in the water below.

And depending on how the weather is,

Like if it's,

If it's very still,

Like go back a little bit to last chapter,

Like,

If it's like sattvic,

If you're kind of still and peaceful,

Then then you can see very clearly the reflection of the tree.

But let's say there is there,

There,

There's wind and so there's like movement movement on the water surface,

Then you can't see the reflection so clearly.

So that can be seen as these as these other qualities of nature,

The tamas and the rajas,

It's like,

It kind of messes up your,

Your vision of the world.

So you can see see it clearly for what it is.

But if you have had this clear vision,

Then you will see a tree that looks just like the tree up.

But of course,

It is only a reflection you can't,

You can't really pick fruits off of a reflection of a tree.

So what's what's the message here?

What's actually it's explained by this upside down tree?

Yes,

It's this thing that has been explained before that matter is the dictionary of spirits.

We can learn something about the spiritual world by by looking at at its reflection,

Which is in this world,

But but we need to understand that it is only a reflection and nothing here is lasting.

So we need to kind of deal with this world with that in mind and not get like overly attached to things,

Only attached to things as is necessary for dealing dealing with them,

But then let go.

Even if you don't let go,

It's going to be taken from you anyway,

Whatever you're trying to keep or so Krishna goes on saying how this the spiritual world,

Which is the real tree,

So to speak,

Is not illumined by the by the sun,

Or by moon or by fire.

So he means that the whole spiritual world is self luminous.

Here,

It might get a little bit confusing because then the people might think like,

Oh,

What that means actually,

It doesn't mean that there is an exact copy of our world in the spiritual world and we are going there.

So maybe I would like to make the point that this so called spiritual world,

It's a state of consciousness,

Because consciousness is what actually stays not matter.

Yes,

Exactly.

Like,

No,

Like,

No form of matter ever remains like it,

It's always going to change into something else.

Whereas consciousness Yes,

Is,

Is always is like,

Ever present.

It's not,

I say,

Never doesn't grow doesn't deteriorate.

It is just a constant factor.

And yes,

But this doesn't mean that it's just awareness without any,

Any object in the spiritual world.

So it means like,

Like there is there are forms,

Since forms facilitate joy.

So like,

It's not form in the spiritual world is not a limitation in the way that it is here.

Like here,

For example,

Like you want to do something,

But like,

I'm just a human,

So I can do things that other beings can do,

For example,

So I'm like limited,

But,

But in this in the spiritual world,

Form is only there to facilitate not not to limit.

So Krishna also goes on to say that,

While the spiritual world is not illuminated by sun,

Moon and fire,

This world is illuminated by sun,

Moon and fire and like other luminaries,

But,

But all those luminaries in this world are empowered by him.

So the spiritual world is self lit,

And it also lights up this world by empowering.

This also like again,

Makes the point that it is it is the light from from that world,

Which is giving us light in this world,

Which it means there is light in this world,

Only for us to be able to act in a way that will bring us to the spiritual world.

That is the purpose of light.

Because as a spiritual light is its own purpose.

So it's not shining here for some other purpose,

Like just for the for here to be like a lit room,

Like I say,

Like a disconnected lit room that just happens to be lit up.

It's the light is reaching here to call us there.

So as I said,

Like also light means like the light of revelation,

Like of revealed spiritual knowledge.

So that light is reaching here in order for us to,

To be called and go there.

And Krishna says this then Arjuna is wondering then like,

Like if Krishna can summarize divine revelation,

Like explain what the divine revelation is saying,

Like the Vedic scriptures and all the Puranas and the Paani Shatas and everything.

So Krishna summarizes that in in five verses.

So he basically he says that there are fallible beings and there are infallible beings.

Fallible beings is people like us who are in this world.

And the infallible fallible beings are,

Are the beings of the spiritual world.

And Krishna is says that he is beyond both of them.

He's the shelter of both of them.

And if we realize this,

We will worship him with all our heart.

That is what he was also saying in the 10th chapter,

If the end of knowledge is is like you understand that you should love your source.

So if you have this full knowledge with which will automatically inspire,

Just like pure worship,

Just like it'll just come from the heart.

It's just how you're how you will act when you see everything for what it is,

Then just like worship will just spring from your heart.

Worship of your source and worship of everything in relation to your source,

Like you will see it however everything is connected to your source and you will worship it.

So if your actions are inspired by seeing things for what they are,

Then they will bring fruition any other actions will are made in ignorance and can therefore not produce a result like that.

But actions that are inspired by seeing things for what they are will result in,

I say in an enhanced state of that,

Like,

It will only grow.

Like you will see things for what they are and it will look better and better.

That's kind of how I can explain it right now.

Yeah,

You will be just perpetually amazed in an ever increasing way.

So yeah,

This summarize pretty much the chapter,

Right?

It was a short one.

Yes.

The chapter only has 20 verses,

But of course very potent knowledge packed.

Yeah,

Because also,

I mean,

Krishna now first explains what are the gunas,

How we are actually influenced fully influenced by them.

But now he's explaining also how to transcend them,

Right?

So it's a kind of work in progress from chapter to chapter.

Yes.

Yeah,

He ended the previous chapter by saying,

Stressing again,

As he always does,

That he is our source.

It's like we come from him,

This world comes from him,

Like the world of the three gunas that we are so ensnared in,

It all comes from him.

Like he says,

And also,

Like he said,

In the seventh chapter,

Like this,

Since this world comes from him,

It is like,

Since it has a divine source,

It is impossible to conquer on our own.

But if we surrender to him,

He can release us from it.

So then he gives this image of this world of the gunas as a tree,

Meaning that,

Like,

What we see in this world is real,

But it's upside down.

It's a kind of give the image to you,

Like,

A little bit like a dream.

Like it is real,

You feel those emotions and they are speaking to you,

There is something really from inside.

But it's kind of upside down.

It's not fully real,

Right?

Yes,

Exactly.

Yeah,

The dream analogy is very helpful to understand this world.

Because,

Yeah,

Like when you say that something was only a dream,

It means that it didn't last very long.

So okay,

This world,

Like also doesn't last forever.

So in that way,

It's also a dream.

It's something that's coming and going.

But there is a root of this world,

But it's up.

Like this analogy is given the tree,

The upside down tree,

That means we had to go upwards to find the root.

Okay,

So what we're going to find now in chapter 16,

We are very slowly reaching the end of the Bhagavad Gita.

Yes,

Yes.

So the chapter 16 will be about qualities we should strive for and qualities that we should strive to not have,

Basically.

You could say bright qualities and dark qualities.

Okay,

Good.

So see you next time for chapter 16.

Looking forward to that.

I hope this episode fulfilled its purpose of inspiring you.

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