Bhagavad-Gita 14th Chapter Glimpse

In this episode, my husband Syama and I speak about the fourteenth chapter of the Bhagavad Gita. This chapter deals with something very interesting called “the gunas”. Guna literally means “rope”, and here it refers to the ropes binding the spiritual self to the psycho-physical world of subtle and gross matter. Once you learn these concepts, you will be able to see them all around you as they permeate the entire world. The gunas are called sattva (that which upholds), rajas (that which creat...

Transcript

Hello Yogi!

Welcome to my podcast.

I'm Aiko and on this show we explore ways to put spiritual theory into sustainable practice.

And here we are,

It's Akadashi.

Welcome again,

Shamananda.

Thank you.

So we are now in Chapter 14.

Do you want to give a short recap of what we said last time about Chapter 13?

And maybe we didn't say the title of the chapter last time,

Did we?

Yeah,

The previous chapter is called Deliberation on Matter and Spirit or in Sanskrit,

Prakriti Purusha Viveka Yoga.

So it's to kind of going back to what we were introduced to in the second chapter,

To separate matter from spirit.

And here it's like a chapter dedicated entirely to that,

Whereas we got a brief introduction to it in the second chapter.

So in Chapter 13,

The body and the world is talked about as a field and the soul as the knower of the field and God then as the knower of all fields.

So just like I know my body,

You know your body,

But God knows all bodies.

Yes,

So that introduced this section of six chapters,

The last six chapter of the Bhagavad Gita that are like,

If you look at the titles of all those chapters,

Most of them are about like distinguishing things,

Analyzing things,

Putting things apart and analyzing it and for the purpose of putting them back together in a more conscious way,

Then the kind of jumble that they are in now in our consciousness.

So briefly,

Maybe what we just said last time,

We went through this beautiful list and we shared our thoughts about it.

Yes,

It was a list of kind of aspects of knowledge that are all kind of part of the culture of spiritual practice,

But also in their more mature forms,

They are fruits of spiritual practice.

For example,

Like,

Let's say humility is one of them,

Then you need to be somewhat humble to practice,

But you will become really humble as a result of your practice.

Yeah,

You can act humbly,

But this mean you are humble yet.

Yes.

But you need to kind of be,

You know,

Like,

Restrained and polite.

Yeah,

Kind of.

And also even just admitting that you can't be humble,

That is also humbling.

So it's paradoxical in that sense.

But one important point there was that all those items on the list,

The most important was dedication to your consciousness source.

That is the essence of spiritual practice.

And that is what will beget all those other qualities.

Very nice.

So let's start with chapter 14 then.

How the chapter,

Like,

Unfold,

What happened between Krishna and Arjuna.

Yeah,

So since we just went through this chapter of separating matter from a spirit,

Talking about them as two completely different substances,

Then also like in modern science,

This is discussed actually,

Like in,

Like when you're in consciousness studies,

Because you have their substance dualists,

Which is people who,

Who mean that consciousness and matter are two different substances.

But then the difficult question is,

How can they relate to each other if they are two different things?

And this,

That is a very complex topic.

And the Bhagavad Gita is answering this question by talk,

Speaking of matter as having three main qualities,

Which are like ropes that bind consciousness to it.

And these three qualities are,

They're called in Sanskrit,

Sattva,

Rajas,

And tamas.

And this is,

Like I said,

In the last episode,

I got kind of excited about this,

Because it is something that you can,

That once you kind of get into it,

You start seeing it everywhere around you.

Yeah,

Kind of like when you learn a new word,

You will see that you will start seeing that word in new places.

But,

But this is like,

Everything that you see around you is,

Is ruled by these three qualities.

So,

And they can be spoken of in different orders.

Like I just said,

Sattva,

Rajas,

And tamas.

If sattva is,

You can say,

For example,

Maintenance,

Clarity,

Depending on like,

Like what level you're talking about,

If it's in the mental level or in a physical level,

Rajas is kind of energetic force,

And tamas is inertia,

Or physical mass.

So to talk about it in a very clear way at first,

You can just,

You can take rajas first,

Usually it's the color red is used to describe rajas.

So it's,

You can say it's creation.

And then you have sattva,

Which is maintaining what is created,

But nothing lasts forever.

So tamas is when what is created breaks down.

So if you if you look at the Hindu pantheon,

The Hindu gods,

Then Lord Brahma is the creator of the universe,

And then Vishnu maintains the universe,

And then at the end,

Lord Shiva destroys the universe.

And then it starts over again.

So it goes in in the creation,

All the creation cycles.

So that is like on the very macro level,

And then you go down to,

You can go down to just the smallest thing like a seed sprouting,

That is rajas,

It's growing,

The flower is growing.

And then you see that it grows to a certain point where it doesn't grow anymore.

But then it stays like that for some time in that shape.

And then it starts to wilt and wither away.

This idea of cycle is a little bit,

Maybe we mentioned this in some previous chapter,

I don't remember,

But in the Westward,

There is a very much a linear way of thoughts.

Like you born,

You live,

You die,

End of the story.

But in Asian culture,

Not only Indian culture,

Like Japanese culture,

Which I know a little bit about it,

And other Asian culture,

And also actually South American cultures,

There is this cycle,

Way of thought,

Where there is no beginning and no end.

After that there is a reborn.

And this also kind of give an answer to the famous question,

Was there the chicken first or the egg?

In a linear way,

You can never answer this question.

There is no way to answer this question.

But in a circular way,

Then you don't even have the question.

It's really there.

So it's very thoughtful and I wanted to say this because if you were born in a West country and always lived with this linear idea,

It's hard to understand this circular idea of the Gunas and other philosophy.

Yes.

But there are of course ways to kind of help you understand it.

And it's fairly like,

One simple way to look at it is the seasons.

That's a very easy way to kind of get into circular thinking.

Although like,

We may still kind of look at centuries and years as a kind of like a timeline.

That's usually how,

Like when we learn history,

It's like a timeline that goes from the 1800s to until now,

For example,

And what happened like,

But if you look at the seasons and you just imagine them like a cycle,

I think it's a helpful tool to get you into kind of circular consciousness rather than linear.

Yeah,

Exactly.

Because now all the world follows the solar calendar,

Which has fixed date that we made,

We give,

But like the spring doesn't follow the calendar.

The autumn,

I mean all the seasons,

They don't follow the calendar fully.

There's not like a specific beginning and end.

There is a shifting between the seasons.

Sometimes it comes late,

Sometimes it comes early.

And there are also like,

I'm not sure if Chinese,

They still follow the lunar calendar but they definitely celebrate the lunar first of the year.

And Indians also,

They have both like they have the Vedic calendar,

Which follows the lunar cyclical way of thoughts and the solar because it's kind of standardizing the whole world.

But if you follow both,

Like we do actually,

You see the difference and you really start understanding the cycling,

The cyclic thoughts and how nature and everything actually cyclical.

Yes.

And to connect this just to this terminology here that we're learning in this chapter of the Gunas,

Then you can say for example that spring is Rajas.

That's when things starting to bloom.

And also it's like a very creative phase.

And then you have the summer,

Which then can be sattva and then things start to kind of break down in the autumn.

The leaves fall from the trees.

Then in winter,

You have the more kind of deep,

Deep tamas.

It's a time of rest.

Yeah.

That also connects with the inner season that I'm teaching in,

In my website,

If anyone is interested.

We women,

We all have all this season,

Actually the energy of the season seasons coming into us during our menstrual cycle.

So within a month.

So it's very important following and understanding all these energies outside and inside,

Of course.

Yes.

And this is connected,

Because we can talk about,

Like I said,

The three Gunas,

The ropes or the qualities of nature on a physical level.

But then there's also the energetic and mental level.

And what you described now is kind of this coming very close to the mental level,

Like the kind of energies in the body,

The flows,

The different flows of energy in the body,

The ebb and the flow of energy in the body.

So now we can talk about awareness of that.

That is exactly what you're talking about.

Being aware of those awareness of the energy states of the body,

The cyclical flow and ebb of energy in the body.

To be aware of that is a symptom of Satva.

And to be unaware of that would be Tamasa,

Which we call destruction.

But it doesn't mean like destruction,

Like literally,

It just means non,

How you say,

Non-creative.

Yeah,

Like for example,

If you have a plant at home,

And you don't know,

The plants need sun and you need to water it.

But you really like the plant and it's super beautiful.

You're super happy and you put it maybe under a shelf,

But there's no sun and no water and everything,

And it's gonna die.

But you're like,

Oh,

Okay,

It's dying.

But if you know,

If you have knowledge,

If you know it needs sun and water,

Then you're gonna water and put it maybe near a window.

And then this plant will live longer and longer.

Yeah,

Exactly.

It's like a loss of potential.

There's so much there that could come out,

But because of ignorance,

It's kind of either destroyed or just never gets to kind of flourish.

So this can be,

As our teacher has,

He has kind of compared this philosophy of the gunas or the qualities of nature with what has been,

How it's been thought of in other ways of thinking,

Like Freud's philosophy,

For example,

He talks about Eros and Thanatos,

So kind of the drive to satisfy your desires.

And then there's also kind of a self-destructive force also that kind of makes people try to forget themselves through drugs.

So Freud talks about Eros and Thanatos,

This drive to satisfy your desires,

Versus this kind of drive to kind of not express yourself,

To kind of destroy yourself and forget yourself,

Which like in the worst cases would lead to suicide or just this kind of living a,

Like a lazy life,

Like not really living,

Living but not living,

To kind of balance those drives and sublimate your desires,

As Freud is teaching,

That is kind of similar to this Bhagavad Gita's teaching of sattva.

And then it can also be compared to yin and yang in Taoism,

Where the yin then is kind of like the tamas,

But only in the positive sense of tamas,

Because of course tamas is positive also,

Like sleeping for example is tamas,

But of course we need to sleep.

So it's sattva,

To sleep,

Even though it's tamas.

Yeah,

So all the gunas are always mixed,

So it's more about like what is predominant and what and on what level it's predominant.

And then yang is like the creative,

So like the Rajas and to balance the two,

Like you see in the yin and yang sign,

That is like sattva,

When there's,

You know,

Just enough of both and you see the dot of tamas in the Rajas and the dot of Rajas in the tamas.

And then,

Yeah,

So to be sattvic,

To have a sattvic mentality is to be aware of the influence that these gunas have on your psyche,

Like to kind of see when like Rajasic forces come into you and make you restless,

Or to see when tamasic forces come into you and make you kind of lazy.

Awareness.

Yeah,

So awareness is a sign of sattva,

And to kind of know how to deal with those forces when they come.

Because it doesn't mean to just suppress either of them,

It means to kind of regulate them.

Like laziness may come,

It may just mean you need rest,

But laziness can also be fear,

So that you don't actually dare to live your life.

So yeah,

To deal with them.

I've sometimes thought about it as the tamas,

Like this mode of ignorance and lethargy.

It needs to be invaded by Rajas,

Like you can invade tamas with Rajas,

But then Rajas,

The passion,

It needs to be harnessed by sattva,

To not just go wild.

And then sattva finally needs to be channeled towards the spiritual practice,

Because sattva is not the end goal.

It is just kind of the platform,

So that you can do actual spiritual practice.

So this is something that the Gita is teaching,

That life is not just about being peaceful and not being dragged down by these lower qualities,

But it's actually also to reach somewhere.

So sometimes sattva is called like the airport,

Like now you have come to the airport,

But the goal of life is not to be at the airport,

But to fly somewhere.

Yeah,

That's very nice.

So how in this chapter Krishna explains this to Arjuna?

Oh,

He gives many examples,

Because you can,

Like I said,

You can see these gunas everywhere.

So he talks about them in the form of food,

For example.

He talks about sweet and fatty foods,

As sattva.

Of course,

This may sound strange to us,

But this was spoken in a time when there was no white sugar.

Yeah,

Exactly.

Things were not refined and saturated and all that.

So sweet things meant like fruits and let's say an avocado.

That's like mango.

Yeah,

An avocado.

I was thinking that the avocado also has the fat.

But yeah,

An avocado and a mango,

Then you have like a really sattvic meal,

You could say.

And then rajas,

You can kind of imagine,

Like the passionate,

Like the chili or like,

You know,

Like hot things.

Usually chocolate,

If it's used in abundance.

Yeah,

Yeah.

Also,

That is one thing,

Like you have the food,

Foods in themselves,

But then you also have,

If they're eaten in abundance,

Even if it's sattvic,

Like,

Of course,

Then,

Yeah,

If you eat 20 avocados,

It becomes tamas immediately.

Exactly.

So you have like the qualities of the food in themselves,

But then you also have the quality of how you eat them,

How you deal with them.

So then like tamasic foods is like foods that have kind of gone a little old and kind of stinky.

So you see,

Like,

It's the kind of destruction element is there.

Yeah.

And of course,

They influence us a lot because if the digestion started going wrong,

Then you become foggy,

Tired,

You don't want to do your work.

And of course,

Like,

It's,

It's all awareness to being aware of what is happening,

What you're eating,

And of course,

Without,

Like,

Paranoia or something,

You know,

But just be aware.

I want to,

Like,

Take care of myself.

Yeah.

Yes,

This is beautiful,

Extraordinarily common sense.

Yeah,

That usually common sense is not common,

Unfortunately.

Yeah,

Uncommon sense.

And there is,

There is a nice story illustrating the three gunas to kind of give you a sense of,

Because sometimes stories is like,

It's like a better way than,

Like,

Technical explanations.

So there's the story of a man who is,

Who is out walking in the forest,

And then he's three robbers jump on him,

And takes everything from him.

So that is,

That is like,

Illustrates material illusion taking,

Taking away everything from us.

Like,

For example,

As a soul,

We are naturally,

Like immortal,

And aware and happy and peaceful.

But as soon as we come into material illusion,

Then we are,

You know,

We are afraid.

We,

We think we're gonna die.

We're unhappy.

So that material illusion takes everything from us and material illusion has these three aspects,

Which are the three gunas,

Sattva,

Raja,

Tama.

But they are,

They are,

They are different also,

Like,

These aspects are,

Show kind of different faces of nature.

The first one is really,

All three are thieves,

Robbers.

Yeah,

As in the story,

They jump on you,

And they take everything away from you.

But the first one,

The first robber,

He says,

Okay,

Let's just do this,

The first robber,

He says,

Okay,

Let's just kill him.

So that is tama guna.

Destruction,

Inertia,

Ignorance,

Darkness.

Then the second one,

Rajas,

Is kind of passionate.

He says,

No,

Like,

Let's not kill him,

But let's just tie him up to a tree.

We bind him.

And let's just like,

Leave him here,

Leave him here to die,

But we don't kill him directly.

And then all the three of them go away.

But then after a while,

The third one comes back and unties,

Unties the ropes,

Because he feels a little bad.

So that's the sattva guna.

So still,

They still took all your things.

But at least the third one comes back and unties you.

But then you by yourself have to kind of find your way back and kind of build a new life for yourself.

Like on the spiritual side,

Which is kind of the purpose of this story is like,

Find your path,

Your way without attachments to the material things.

Yes.

Yeah.

This just because you say the rope,

Just remind me that gunas means rope.

And our teacher is saying that it's the rope that hides the rope,

That hides up the soul,

The matter and the energy.

Yes.

Yeah,

Exactly.

So even the sattva is binding you,

But it can also kind of help to unbind you,

But it won't do everything on you,

For you on the spiritual side,

Because it is still a part of material nature,

Which is not what you are.

You are spiritual nature.

Yeah.

But of course we need all this energy in order to survive.

We need to sleep,

We need to eat and all these energies are here,

But we can use them to serve our higher purpose of spiritual goal.

Yes,

Exactly.

This is the purpose of this chapter and the chapter ends by Krishna saying that he is the foundation of the world,

Like he's the source of the material energy.

But as he said in the seventh chapter,

It's this energy because it is,

It comes from him,

Like it is there for the kind of how you say,

Keep you engaged until you become interested in your spiritual side.

But it is his energy,

So that means it's very powerful.

It's not something you can kind of overcome by yourself,

But if you turn towards the source,

So he is Krishna here who is speaking also,

He is our source and he is the source of the world.

So we are inherently,

We are superior to material nature,

But still we are under the illusion of material nature.

But Krishna,

If we turn towards him in our spiritual practice,

He can easily lift us from material nature.

But of course we will also be kept here because the material world,

When you turn to spiritual practice,

Doesn't mean that you will just kind of pop out of the material world.

But the material world will be serving,

It will be a school.

So you will learn a lot about spirituality from the material world.

You will see everything in terms of your spiritual practice.

And as one of our grand teachers said,

Matter is the dictionary of spirit.

So from what you see here,

You can learn about the spiritual world,

But you won't,

Still it is not the spiritual world,

But you're learning about it from it.

So do you want to say something about the next chapter?

So the next chapter is called Purushottama Yoga and it is about this,

What we have said here,

It is about turning to our source.

Purushottama is the supreme person because we are all persons,

Particles of spirits that is of a superior quality to matter,

But we are not,

We are still under the sway of matter.

So Purushottama Yoga,

To connect with the supreme person who is never under that sway.

That is how,

I mean,

It kind of goes without saying,

If you turn to your source,

You turn to your source.

It's not like you're turning to your source just to come out of matter,

But to really fully unite with your source,

You need to come out of matter.

But it happens simply first by turning and then gradually you fully realize your relationship with your source.

Thank you.

So see you next Ekkadasi.

Thank you so much.

I hope this episode fulfilled its purpose of inspiring you.

If you like it,

Feel free to share it,

Give a review or a rating,

Subscribe.

And if you have any question,

Please get in touch at aikoauta.

Com