Reflections Of Self

Our body, our voice, our gender – whatever it is that you identify with and value, even the ones that you don't – these are all who you are. These make up the self. Recognizing the perception, the internal voices, that create the distinction between "this is me" and "this is not me" is important to help us become who we truly are.

Transcript

Such a beautiful silence in here and also out there.

It kind of was,

Felt like it was emphasized when there was a little bit of rain at the beginning of this session,

Listening to that.

It's a bit of a challenge to speak into.

So the encouragement is to listen to the silence,

Even as we're listening to the sound of the words,

The sound of the voice.

But can we still stay in contact with the silence?

Before I go into the talk a little bit more,

I wanted to ask if anyone remembers the guided meditation this afternoon,

Whether there was anything interesting that you noticed in that practice.

There's no pressure to come up with something.

Just if you remember and if there was anything that felt interesting in that practice.

Bringing metta to metta was interesting.

Okay,

So it felt very powerful.

Anything else?

Anyone else?

I didn't think it did a great deal when I was in the sitting and then I got outside and I just had a massive smile with the whole of my walking period.

So the effect was more palpable afterwards.

Beautiful.

Anything else?

Yes?

It took me a whole while to get into it.

I heard somebody with a of Petshah.

Thought it would turn into meditation and taught me theondo-knoto techniques.

Did Did people hear that?

No,

So there was a sense that it took time to get into the practice.

And then hearing someone else weeping,

There was the experience of feeling as if that weeping was happening inside.

There was a sense of no separation and there were actuals of tears with the flavor of compassion coming.

Anything else?

Yeah,

The metta applied to the body,

I found that really powerful.

And then later meditation on playing down,

I did a body scan and applied that to each part of the body scan.

That was lovely.

Yeah,

So bringing metta to the body.

Yeah.

Can you say anything about what was lovely about it,

Charlie?

You don't need to.

So as you can see I'm stalling,

I want you to give the talk instead of me.

Because you do such a wonderful job.

So,

Anything else?

Actually that reminds me that I did have something in one of my feet.

Well,

My back foot is almost totally numb,

But I felt some kind of slip.

I felt a few tingles,

I got quite excited.

So with that metta somehow,

The actual physical,

Seemingly physical sensations experience changes.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

And I think just listening to all of you,

Just that sense of,

That really is at the heart of what we've been exploring,

What we are exploring,

Is this really,

You know,

What is the nature of experience?

Actually,

You know,

When we start paying attention in these different kinds of ways,

So much of how we normally relate to things,

Is kind of,

Has this kind of question mark,

In a very beautiful way,

A very beautiful question mark around it.

What is the nature of this experience?

What is the nature of this body and of this mind?

Yeah,

Really kind of an open field that opens up as vast as this view that we have here behind us,

Probably,

Well,

Behind me in front of you.

Yeah.

So we've been particularly looking at this nature of experience through these three wisdom views that we've been speaking about.

And I'd like to continue this exploration tonight,

Hopefully opening out and widening out perspectives around this even more.

It's kind of the whole path of the Dharma can be around this,

Yeah,

Or is around this,

Yeah.

The wisdom views,

The nature of experience,

What is experience,

This kind of question mark that we can bring into life.

So hopefully it won't feel like a repetition,

But actually an ongoing investigation that can nourish our practice and nourish a deepening of our understanding.

Yeah,

So that there's less of those,

Of that misunderstanding that Nathan was speaking about last night,

The misunderstanding that all types of dukkha are rooted in.

Yeah,

When we don't see things clearly,

When we see things in a distorted way.

So just a reminder with maybe a slightly different language of the three wisdom views,

One really beautiful thing about this retreat is that I've found that with the questions that people are bringing,

It makes me really aware how precise we need to be with the language that we're using.

So hopefully I got it right this time.

This is my attempt to have the three wisdom views really precise.

Let's see what you come back with.

More illumination.

So the first one is that all compounded things,

All compounded,

And we'll get to this word compounded if it doesn't make sense.

All compounded things,

All compounded phenomena are impermanent,

Changing and inconstant.

All compounded phenomena,

Impermanent,

Changing and inconstant.

That's the first wisdom view.

And the second is that all compounded things are unreliable.

All compounded things are unreliable.

When we grasp at them,

Cling to them,

Or push them away,

They will bring dukkha.

Dukkha will follow.

Does that make sense to people so far?

And then the third is that all experience,

All phenomena is compounded and conditioned.

Compounded and conditioned.

It does not exist separately and independently without relying on other things to make it up.

This is the meaning of compounded,

Made up of other things.

So anything we perceive is a product of different conditions coming together.

And as they come together,

They create the appearance of an independently existing thing.

Here is an iPad,

Independently existing.

Here is a pair of glasses,

Independently existing.

The appearance of,

And yet when we look at the thing,

It is made up of things coming together.

It's compounded.

So we can say,

These glasses are made of,

What are they made of?

There is metal,

There is glass.

There are these three wonderful brothers,

The Zohair brothers,

The petitions in Mumbai,

Who made them.

They are there.

They are part of what compounds these glasses.

There is my friend Dr.

Lahane,

Eye surgeon in Mumbai,

Who recommended the petitions.

So he is in here too.

They are compounded.

Do you see?

Everything is compounded.

Anything,

We take it,

We say,

A pair of glasses.

But when we start looking,

What makes this up?

Where did this come from?

And right now,

This is the really kind of mind-blowing thing,

This pair of glasses is relying on your perception as well.

If none of us,

If none of us perceived these glasses right now in this moment,

Where would they be?

If your mind is just blown completely,

Then,

You know,

It's okay.

And if it's not,

If it's difficult to grasp that last bit,

That's also okay.

Don't feel like you need to try.

Yeah,

It's just kind of one more thing to take in.

So anything,

Anything that we experience compounded,

Compounded of things coming together,

Assembling together,

To create an appearance of an independently existing thing.

Yeah,

Appearance of something that seems independent,

But actually when we look at it more closely,

We see that it is dependent.

It's not independent.

It's dependent.

Yeah,

It's conditioned.

It's compounded.

And this is true of all phenomena.

Yeah,

It's true of everything that we can perceive and everything that we can experience.

Yeah,

Including this thing for each of us.

Yeah,

This thing,

This body,

This mind,

This heart,

This experience is also a compounded thing.

It's also a conditioned thing.

It's also made up of things coming together and creating an appearance of independence.

So,

Yeah,

This is the heart of what I want to explore tonight.

And it's,

Again,

We can understand,

We understand these.

Yeah,

We understand these intellectually.

We can grasp them intellectually most of the time.

This last one is the most difficult one,

Especially when it comes to the sense of self.

Because even though we understand intellectually,

There's something in us that constantly kind of has this argument,

Or even when there isn't a conscious argument,

How we actually live,

How we actually act,

How we actually respond to life is through the lens of,

You know,

There is something permanent here.

There is something independent here that is not conditioned.

Yeah,

This I am,

This I am.

So,

You know,

This body,

This voice,

This personality,

This view,

Yeah,

This gender,

Yeah,

Whatever it is,

This is me.

Yeah,

This is me,

This habit,

This mind state,

This is me,

This is who I am.

You know,

We know that this is me,

This is me.

And is it,

You know,

That's,

Here comes the question mark again,

Remember?

Question mark.

Is it,

Is it in the way that we take it to be?

So yesterday I had an interesting experience.

Drumroll,

For you.

You might be imagining,

You know,

I said that yesterday I had an interesting experience.

If you don't know me very well,

Then you might think that it was during meditation,

I kind of attained some sublime state.

But if you do know me,

You know that there is kind of a,

Probably a funny story coming with me as the comic hero,

Heroine.

So hopefully I haven't spoiled the joy,

The joke.

So yesterday I had an interesting experience.

I forget that last bit that I just said.

Nathan and I were both in our room working,

You know,

On preparing things for the retreat.

So he was on his computer,

I was on my iPad and working away.

And suddenly I heard a woman's voice and it was speaking English.

So I knew it wasn't one of the staff here.

And I was like,

What's going on?

You know,

Someone's breaking the silence.

That was the immediate thing,

You know,

Who is it?

Where are they?

You know,

What's going on?

I completely,

You know,

And I said to Nathan,

Someone's talking out there.

And I was completely like,

Like,

You know,

I'm doing a good mimicry of what it was.

It was kind of really like looking here and listening,

Trying to figure out where is this coming from?

Who is this?

What's going on?

And I was listening more and I thought,

That's really weird.

It really sounds like this woman is quoting some of the things I said in the talk last night.

You know,

She's really,

She's saying really similar things to what I was saying.

That's really,

Really odd.

And then,

You know,

Suddenly she's going with a squeaky chair and she's even doing it exactly like I did it.

It sounds exactly like what's going on,

You know?

Who is she talking to?

And at that point,

I kind of looked up and saw Nathan's face and he was looking at me like,

What are you doing?

And I was like,

What do you mean?

You know,

Someone's talking out there.

And he said to me,

It's you.

He was in the process of moving the recording from the phone to the computer and testing the sound.

And so for just a short few moments,

It was my voice coming out of the computer speakers,

Not somebody else outside breaking the silence,

Quoting me and doing the sound exactly like I do.

OK,

So a great experience,

As you can see.

So what,

You know,

Why am I sharing this except to make you laugh?

So we have this.

Sense,

Yeah,

My voice,

Yeah,

My words,

Right?

This is me.

I know who I am.

Yeah.

And then.

The context changes for whatever reason.

Yeah,

And I hear my voice and I hear my words,

But they're not me,

They're somebody else.

Because at that moment,

That's the way of looking.

So not recognizing what seems most of the time so obviously who I am.

Oh,

I know what my voice sounds like.

I know what I said last night.

When and kind of this got me thinking,

This is really interesting.

When does my voice stop being my voice?

Once it's once it's recorded,

When does it stop being me?

You see right now,

Oh,

Yeah,

This is my voice,

But when does it stop being me?

When does it stop being me?

When does it stop being mine?

On the recording.

Yeah.

So this it says a lot about our sense of self.

It says a lot about.

How fixed it is or not.

Yeah.

And about how the mind plays a part in that fabrication of that sense of self of what is me and what is not.

Yeah.

And of course,

The mind does that with all experience.

But right now,

I'm concentrating on this.

I'm focusing on this particular aspect of that sense of me,

Of I.

Of self.

Of this is who I am.

So.

There's a quote that that Nathan gave me this morning from I think he was quoting the same guy last night.

Impossible to pronounce his name,

Something like Zong Sa Kian Se Rinpoche,

Tibetan teacher.

Famous for being also a filmmaker.

If anybody's seen The Cup.

Anyway,

Doesn't matter.

So this is a quote from him from one of his books.

And he's describing the Buddha and the understanding that the Buddha came to.

And so he says,

After a long time of contemplation,

The Buddha came to the understanding that all form,

Including our flesh,

Our bones,

All our emotions,

All our perceptions.

Yeah.

All of this are assembled.

Yeah.

They are the product of two or more things coming together.

Yeah.

When any two components or more,

Two components or more come together,

A new phenomena emerges.

And he gives examples.

Yeah.

Nails and wood make a piece of furniture.

Yeah.

Or a window.

Right.

This is a really nice one.

Tea leaves and hot water make a cup of tea.

This end product does not have an existence independent of its parts.

Yeah.

We couldn't make a cup of tea without tea leaves and hot water and boiling water.

Right.

So the cup of tea does not have an independent existence.

Independent of its parts.

When we believe it truly exists independently,

This is a great misunderstanding.

But when the parts come together,

They themselves also undergo a change.

Right.

We couldn't separate the tea leaves and the hot water again to how they were before.

So the tea leaves that,

Sorry,

Obsession with tea.

So the parts themselves that have come together also undergo a change.

Through meeting,

Their character changes and together they have become something else.

This is the meaning of compounded.

So if you're still kind of,

If that word still feels foreign,

This is the meaning of compounded.

Things come together out of parts,

But the parts do not remain distinct.

Yeah.

They themselves change.

And I found this reading this so beautiful because it really touches on this extra bit that often when we speak about not self or the empty nature of things,

We miss that part that the parts themselves come together.

They too are changed.

Yeah.

And something new is created.

It's dependent on the parts.

Yeah.

But it's new.

Does that make sense to people?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I think one of the sometimes in the teachings,

One of the things that people find frustrating is the Buddha.

He refused to respond or spend time on what he called metaphysical questions.

Yeah.

He was interested only in what is practical,

What we can apply,

What can lead to our,

To the end of Dukkha for us.

And so there's lots and lots of texts where all kinds of wise people come and ask him,

You know,

Is there a soul or isn't there a soul?

Is there a self or isn't there a self?

Where does the Buddha go after he dies?

You know,

There's all kinds of versions of this.

And his response,

For example,

Around the sense of self is to say,

You know,

Is there a self?

Isn't there a self?

He says there is neither a self.

Oh,

Sorry.

The self neither exists nor not exist.

Yeah.

It neither exists nor not exist.

Yeah.

And this is,

Yeah,

This is the compounded.

This is the tea and the water.

Yeah.

The leaves and the water.

And yeah.

Do you see this?

Yeah.

There's a process here.

There's a process here.

What is important is that we,

We acknowledge that process.

We acknowledge that compounded nature of things and that compounded nature of the sense of self,

The sense of who I am.

Yeah.

Compounded.

So another way of saying the self neither exists nor not exists is that the self does not exist in the way we take it to.

Yeah.

So habitual way.

Yeah.

A habitual way of seeing the self.

It's not aligned with,

With the way it actually unfolds.

Yeah.

A bit your way of seeing the self as solid,

Permanent.

Having a separate inherent existence and essence.

And from this,

Another really useful insight,

A really useful understanding can come here that the self,

Like most things actually exists,

That sense of self,

That feeling of self that we have exists along with spectrum.

Yeah.

And we know this,

There's times when there's a really strong,

Pronounced sense of self.

Yeah.

Often when we're unhappy.

Yeah.

Or angry.

Yeah.

Be a strong sense of self.

And as times when the sense of self is much more quiet and it's really like there's a spectrum that that moves along.

And within that spectrum.

You know,

There's many,

Many times when having a sense of self is very useful for us in the world.

Yeah.

Let's give this example.

But if we didn't have a sense of this self being separate,

It would be quite difficult to have gotten here.

Yeah.

Right.

We needed to book a flight train,

Whatever it was,

Under somebody's name.

Yes.

We need some sense of identity.

There's some usefulness to that.

And part of our part of our practice and our path is to become sensitive to that movement along the spectrum and to know.

The appropriateness.

Yeah.

When is it useful?

And when is it harmful?

When does it bring Dukkha?

Yes,

A lot of it is around degree,

But also around context.

Seeing that seeing that spectrum.

And remembering that this sense of self that we have,

That misperception of the self is something that's conditioned in us from a very,

Very young age.

From a very,

Very young age,

We're taught to think that our body,

Our feelings,

Our perceptions,

Our consciousness,

Our thoughts and our actions are who we are.

Yeah.

It starts very,

Very young.

And so it's a powerful condition that has a conditioning that has been with us through our lives.

And yet it causes,

When it's unseen,

When we're not conscious of it,

It can cause a lot of suffering,

A lot of Dukkha to ourselves and to others.

So after that funny story with the voice happened yesterday,

We remembered a similar but different story,

Which was to do with the bird that we had seen in,

I'll say the name of the place because lots of you know it,

Somnath.

It was a beautiful,

Beautiful place that we teach a retreat in,

In central India.

And one year when we were there,

There was a jeep parked outside very close to our room.

And several mornings in a row,

We would see this bird,

A bull bull,

For those who know that bird,

It would come fly over to this jeep and fly over to the side mirror of the jeep and kind of hover there looking at its image in the side mirror and then start attacking it.

We'd do it for a while and then fly off and then come back and you could feel,

You know,

It's a bird,

You know,

You could see the whole kind of,

Who is this,

You know,

Who is this in my territory and kind of really attacking this other and it's not going away,

You know,

Not going away.

And it's such a good image of how we relate to the other,

You know,

To the other,

Both internally,

Yeah,

Within ourselves,

The other between within ourselves and the other outside of ourselves.

So strong view,

A strong belief,

This is me and that is not me.

Yeah.

This is me and that is not me.

That's an underlying belief that we have.

This is me,

This is me and that is not me over there.

Yeah.

Or this is not me.

Yeah.

And also internally,

You know,

This voice that is coming up right now,

That is not me and this is me.

Yeah.

How we relate to the other and this perception really limits how we respond,

How we respond.

So when we take that image of that bird attacking its own image in the mirror and we look at what happens internally for us with some of our internal voices,

Yeah,

This can be really,

Really helpful.

Is a voice that's going on in my mind,

Is that me because it's inside my head?

And we usually identify,

Yeah,

This is who I am,

This judgmental voice,

This unkind voice,

This angry voice,

This loving voice.

Yeah.

This is who I am.

Yeah,

We identify with it.

And when there's conflict,

You know,

There's this hierarchy,

You know,

So sometimes there's a sense that the voice of kindness is more me than the voice of judgment.

And sometimes it's the other way around.

Yeah.

The judging voice,

That's who I am.

Kindness,

That's just some wishy-washy thing that I've picked up at some point.

It's not real.

This is who I am.

This judging voice,

This angry voice.

So who,

You know,

Who is more me?

Who is more me?

Can we see that these voices too,

Whatever they are,

Yeah,

Whatever they are,

These voices too are conditioned,

Compounded phenomena.

Yeah,

Whatever the voice is,

That is also conditioned,

That is also compounded,

That is also made up.

Yeah.

That is also not who I am.

Yeah,

Not who I am.

It's conditioned to a great degree by the habits,

Yeah,

That have come together through the conditions of our lives,

Through the conditions of our lives.

And can we see,

When we see that,

This too is compounded,

This too is conditioned.

Yeah.

Not necessarily who I am in the way the mind is seeing it right now,

Yeah.

So can we see the possibility there?

Yeah,

Can we see the changeability there?

If it's compounded,

If it's conditioned,

If it's dependent on things coming together and appearing,

Then as conditions change,

The appearance also changes.

Yeah,

As conditions change,

The appearance also changes.

What comes together changes.

What comes together changes.

Shapes and forms shift and realign and come together in a different way.

So our mind is pliable and flexible,

More than we remember that it is.

Yeah,

More than we remember that it is.

Does that make sense to people?

Yeah,

Niv.

Isn't the fact that we can hear those two voices or see our body necessarily mean that this isn't me because I'm seeing it?

So I couldn't be either of those voices.

I'm hearing both of them.

Yeah,

It's all compounded,

It's all conditioned.

It's not a choice,

Am I this or am I that?

It's actually seeing the fluidity and the movement and the conditionality of both.

And the capacity to be aware is a real tool with that,

The capacity to be conscious.

And when we deepen in our practice,

We can also,

You know,

Sometimes it can feel that what I am is that consciousness.

And that is also something that we can explore in the practice.

But certainly a really useful tool to see,

To not identify as this voice or that voice.

So this is a beautiful way of relating to these,

You know,

And supporting us and not identifying as the different voices in our mind.

And getting a kind of helpful way of working with this,

You know,

The mind itself,

Which is made up of so many voices,

You know,

A little bit like Niv was just saying,

Not one or the other.

Made up of all of these and of the consciousness that reveals them.

So Taneeser Ubeeku,

Who is a beloved teacher,

Master,

He has this metaphor that he uses of,

Can we see our mind as a committee?

So when there's voices in the mind,

Yeah,

For example,

Maybe the inner critic that are strong,

Yeah,

We can remember that is just one voice in the committee.

It's strong.

It's got a force of habit behind it.

But when we remember,

Actually,

The mind is not just this.

It's not just this.

And we can ask who else is here?

Yeah,

Who else is here?

And if you're real,

If you like using images and playing these games,

You can really imagine as if in your mind,

There's a committee table with chairs.

Yeah.

And you're taking the seat of the chairperson.

And you're asking who else is here?

So we've heard this voice,

The angry voice,

The critical voice,

Whatever it is,

The doubtful voice,

You know,

Whatever our strong patterns are,

But who else is here?

Who else would like to say something?

Remember,

There's a multitude.

Yeah,

There's a richness within us.

Opening up,

What would the voice of kindness have to say?

What would the voice of wisdom have to say?

What would the voice of awareness have to say?

So we can use this image to support that opening out from a sense of a dense,

Condensed,

Yeah,

Separate,

Solid sense of self to the elements that make it up.

Yeah,

In the mind.

Elements that make it up in the mind.

So this is true,

Or this is useful to see to explore in our own experience and in the way that we relate to that sense of me of I of self.

But it is equally true of all phenomena.

Yeah,

Equally true of all phenomena,

It is all compounded,

It is all assembled,

It is all and has the appearance of separateness in the mind.

And another way of saying this,

And I just want to kind of bring in this language is that it is all empty.

Yeah,

It is all empty.

And when we use this word empty emptiness,

It doesn't mean that there's nothing there.

It is empty of separateness,

Empty of independently existing,

Yeah,

Empty of an essence that is not in relationship to other conditions and other things.

So all phenomena is empty or phenomena relies on other conditions and conditions and causes to come together in order to exist.

And this is something that we can apply to our experience.

We can apply this to our experience,

It is what we have already been doing in the different practices that we have been using.

We are applying this understanding slowly,

Slowly in different ways.

So if we see things as empty,

If we see things as impermanent,

If we see things as not having this inherent independent selfhood,

It changes how we relate to them.

So we can look at something like a wall,

Or as I said before,

These glasses or a piece of clothing.

And instead of seeing it as it,

As a noun,

As a thing,

Separate,

Independent,

Fixed,

We can see it as a process.

And in a place like this,

It's really,

Really apparent.

We look at this wall and we can see what it's compounded of,

Right?

We can see the earth,

We can see the bits of straw.

We know there's water in there too,

And we can reflect on the hands that are in it also,

That made it.

So we see it's a process and we look at it and we see that it changes,

Right?

Do you see the places where it's rubbed off or knocked away?

It changes.

Yeah,

It's a process.

It seems permanent.

It seems solid.

It seems to have its own nature independent of other things.

But right now I'm touching it.

It's being impacted by me,

Right?

I'm rubbing it away even if we can't see it.

It's a process.

So if we look at life as made up of verbs rather than nouns,

Yeah,

Process.

What a change.

What a change.

Joanna Macy,

Who's a Dharma teacher and an environmental activist,

She speaks of herself as a flow through.

And I love that as a definition of who we are.

Yeah.

I am a flow through.

And when we think about this body and mind,

Doesn't that feel much more in tune with what we are?

I'm a flow through of bits of plants.

In our case these days.

Being taken in and digested and building this body and coming out again.

I'm a flow through of water.

I'm a flow through of ideas.

Right.

That's what's happening right now.

I'm a flow through of habits.

Yeah.

The habits are constantly in process.

So I am a flow through.

Rather than at this fixed,

A separate and limited.

And how can that if we just think,

How does that change the way we perceive ourselves if we think of ourselves as that?

I am a flow through.

I'm a process.

Can you feel how it immediately connects us to everything else?

A process doesn't have a beginning and an end.

It doesn't have boundaries.

Yeah.

It flows.

And so when we bring that in as a way of looking,

When we bring that in as a way of relating to ourselves and our experience.

It opens up.

You know,

A realm of possibilities.

You have relating to life in a way that brings less dukkha.

And more sense of connection.

If we're a flow through,

If I'm a flow through,

If I'm a process,

I can feel my connection to the network of life.

It can feel scary sometimes.

I want to acknowledge that.

If that's what it feels like or grim.

Yeah.

Then,

You know,

Just to allow that too.

That that can be a response that arises.

But actually it's when we allow,

When we move through that fear.

It opens us up to so much more joy and creativity.

Yeah.

And it affects our relationship to our practice.

If I see my practice,

If I see my self as a process.

What happens to that constant measuring?

If I see another person as a process,

What happens to the relationship?

If I see the events of my life as a process.

What happens to the weight that we carry?

From the past and into the future.

So we can we can reflect on this for ourselves.

And see how it may be useful.

And one thing that hopefully we're seeing more and more in the practice is that the more lightly we hold our sense of separateness.

The more lightly we hold our sense of,

You know,

This is where I stop and something else begins.

The more lightly we hold our views and our perceptions.

The less dukkha there is,

The less contraction there is.

Yeah,

The less clinging there is.

They all arise together.

And they all pass dependent on each other.

Which opens up.

More and more possibilities of joy.

More and more possibilities of joy.

And of well-being.

So let's have a moment of silence together.

So just in this moment.

Can we open to feel ourselves as a flow through and a process?

The breathing.

The digestion.

The mutuality of being here with others.

All of that flowing through.

Coming together into appearance.

Changing.

And if we feel any lightening.

Any easing with that.

Resting into that.

And may our practice together nourish the well-being of all beings everywhere.

Thank you for your listening and your presence.

We have about 20 minutes until the next sitting.

Reviews

Best teaching on this subject I have ever experienced 🙏