Meditation As Deep Listening

Listening is a transferable skill from the meditation cushion to all of life. One that supports us to engage skilfully with our life: to ask deep questions, and be sensitive and creative in how we live, how we speak, and how we listen. This was recorded in a live teaching session.

Transcript

I'd like to speak my version of short,

Which I'm not sure is going to be short,

Let's see.

I'd like to speak about listening and meditation as listening,

Both internally to our own experience and to the meeting with the world,

To how we meet the world.

So when we practice meditation,

We are actually listening to the body and the mind as we practice.

So for example,

Often at the beginning of a session,

We invite you to listen to the body,

Listen to the energy levels and notice what's the appropriate posture.

And then to listen to the body as you settle into your posture.

We also listen to and for particular aspects of experience,

Like we were doing today a little bit with the Vedana.

We were tuning in to that aspect,

To the Vedana aspect of our experience.

And we use language,

So speech,

Which is the other side of the coin from listening,

To direct awareness as we practice.

So we use language,

We use words to direct awareness to the meditation object,

To maybe bring ourselves back when we're distracted.

And so there's a kind of,

If we look at our internal experience when we're meditating,

You can check right now,

There's this flow of inner listening and inner speech as we practice.

That's supportive of what we're doing.

And right now,

Here in this moment,

There's also a similar flow between us.

So I'm using speech to direct your attention to something particular in your experience.

And you are hearing and listening to what I'm saying.

So there's a flow between our minds,

Which is similar to what happens within our mind.

And one thing that I'm interested in pointing to and exploring is the sense of what happens when we bring interest and sensitivity to this flow,

To this process.

When we include this knowing,

This is going on,

There's this flow of listening and of speaking within us,

Between us in many,

Many different ways.

What happens when we remember that both listening and speaking,

Whether internal or external,

Are not neutral,

They're not separate,

Independent events.

They're conditioned by many,

Many factors.

For example,

They might be conditioned by gender,

By social norms,

By personal history,

Even by the language that we're using.

I think there's a few of us here that are bilingual,

So we know this well and we know that we're using it.

And we're using it to help us understand what's happening in our lives.

There's a few of us here that are bilingual,

So we know this well in our experience.

It's different.

There's different vocabulary,

There's different concepts in different languages.

So they shape.

Neither the speaking nor the listening is separate,

Is neutral,

Is independent of conditions.

So the invitation,

One invitation is to remember all of this and to also remember,

Or contemplate,

Or open to,

That through speech,

Through listening,

Through communication,

Inner and outer,

We condition,

We fabricate,

Back to fabrication,

We fabricate,

And we create our inner life and also the world,

Also the world that we perceive.

So I'm just going to pause here a minute and check if that makes sense to you so far.

I'm going to say more about it,

But I just want to check because this is quite,

You know,

Some big statements there.

Okay.

So this,

You know,

One thing all of this means is that here is this powerful tool,

Yeah,

That we have,

That we live through.

In many ways,

It's a tool that can be used to cultivate wisdom,

Understanding,

But it's also a tool that fabricates,

Yeah,

All the time.

It's fabricating,

It's got a fabricating power.

So when we look at this internally,

Yeah,

We can see that there is a power that is there,

That is there,

That is there,

That is there,

That is there,

That is there,

That is there.

So when we look at this internally,

Yeah,

We can see,

For example,

Our internal dialogue,

Yeah,

Can give form and continuity to transitory appearances,

Things that appear,

As Nathan was saying,

It's constantly happening.

Everything is fabricated,

Everything is made up of parts,

Everything is a coming together,

Yeah,

Of things.

So our inner dialogue gives form and continuity to things that are made up of different components,

Fabricated,

And also that are also transitory,

Changing,

Impermanent.

Yeah,

So that's one thing our inner dialogue does.

It also stabilizes intention,

Yeah,

So that it can be expressed externally,

Yeah.

There's a clarity of intention that comes up internally so that it can be expressed externally,

Yeah,

Clarity of intention that leads to actions,

To speech in the world.

And when we express externally,

When we speak,

When we act in the world,

This in turn then strengthens inner mental habits,

Yeah.

So they continue to fabricate future intentions and actions,

Yeah.

So it's like an ongoing process,

An ongoing process through communication.

So I'm going to give an example for this,

Which is,

It's not exactly imaginary example,

It's actually something I did,

But I'm going to pretend Nathan did it for the example,

Because then I can kind of tell you what would happen in my mind in that situation without presuming to say what would happen in his.

So a few days ago,

I can't remember what was going on,

But we didn't have lunch at the same time.

And when Nathan came out to have his food,

He discovered that I had eaten the last of the soup,

Okay.

So now we're going to reverse it and pretend it happened the other way around.

And that I came out and realized that he had eaten the last of the soup,

Okay.

So there's the event,

Yeah.

It's an appearance,

It's a transitory thing,

Yeah.

No more soup,

The soup is gone,

Okay.

That's unpleasant,

Yeah,

If there was a wish to eat soup,

Yeah,

That's unpleasant,

It's got an unpleasant vedana right there,

No soup for me.

And around that,

The inner speaking begins,

Right,

The inner speech begins,

Right.

No soup for me,

I really wanted soup,

None left for me.

And then we're giving,

Or I'm giving in this case,

If I'm using this example,

Which has happened many times in my life,

I'm not pretending,

I'm not kind of telling a falsehood here.

So I'm giving,

There there is form and continuity given to a passing event,

Okay.

Passing event,

Thought there was soup,

There's no soup.

That's what happened.

There's plenty of other food by the way.

I'm not about to starve,

Okay.

But there's form and continuity given to that passing event,

It gains solidity,

Yeah.

And this,

You know,

Then keeps building up,

Yeah,

In the mind,

More solidity,

Yeah,

More continuity.

Oh,

This has happened before,

Yeah.

And,

You know,

We might think about the other person,

Oh,

You know,

He doesn't think about me,

You know,

When he eats,

When he eats the last of the soup,

Or you always do this,

Yeah,

He always does this,

Yeah,

Is another very familiar language that we have.

And so through this,

Yeah,

Can you see there's the giving form and continuity to an appearance,

To something that's really an appearance arising.

And then through that intention starts to build up with the speech.

I have to tell him,

Yeah,

I have to express this hurt that I feel right now has to be expressed,

Yeah.

And if there's no awareness,

If there's no space around this process,

It will be then expressed in a certain way,

Yeah.

You always do this.

Why didn't you leave me any soup or whatever.

So this is happening in the immediate,

Right.

Right now this is going on.

And as it's going on,

It fabricates a certain view,

Right.

Fabricates the view of the relationship.

It fabricates the view of the other fabricates the view of the self.

Yeah.

I'm the poor one who,

Whose needs aren't of interest,

You know,

The other is always doing this.

Our relationship,

You know,

There's,

There's something going on here that needs addressing,

Whatever.

I'm exaggerating,

But you know,

This all starts to build up.

And the interesting thing is that this is fabricated in the moment in that,

And even when it pops,

Which eventually it will,

Yeah,

It's not going to lead,

You know,

It's not true in the way it appears at that moment,

At least not in my case.

And so eventually it will pop,

But then it creates the habit of the mind.

Yeah.

So that same loop is more likely to happen again.

Okay.

So it's fabricating this immediacy,

But also the habits of the mind and future intentions and inner mental patterns.

Yeah.

I like taking things personally.

Yeah.

And then reacting with resentment.

So that might also come up with someone else.

Yeah.

Not just with the same person.

Okay.

And all of that also with language.

Yeah.

Of course,

Language is not the only fabricating factor,

But it's a significant one there.

And it's one that we can notice.

This is why it's interesting.

Yeah.

We can,

We can hear,

Yeah,

We can learn to hear what is being said.

And then this inner flow,

A lot of the time then moves out into the external,

Right?

And that might be expressed when it's expressed,

When speech is released into the world,

Um,

It also fabricates the experience of others.

Yeah.

The mind States,

The mental,

Um,

Patterns,

The intentions of others.

So,

You know,

Along with other conditions,

What we say,

You know,

What we say,

Um,

Impacts,

Yeah.

How the other,

If we're in a dialogue,

How the other will respond,

How the other will react.

Yeah.

And so sometimes we find ourselves in a dialogue,

In a conversation,

We can really see this and things are intensifying.

And it actually doesn't matter if we're,

You know,

If it's a negative or positive thing,

We can see this.

Yeah.

It's not about negative,

Positive.

Yeah.

You can see that intensification between us of the,

Of the,

Of the buildup.

So I think,

Um,

And I I've said this,

Some of you have heard me say this,

I think particularly in the online Dharma hall,

Uh,

Really aware of the language around,

You know,

Now that the times that we're in a whole range of languages come into place.

Yeah.

That we're using and,

And it's,

It hasn't been very skillful.

Yeah.

As a society,

Yeah.

It hasn't been very skillful.

And so we can really see the impact that it can have.

You know,

What happens when we speak about lockdown,

Uh,

Or in France,

They say confinement,

I think is the word that they use in the U S interestingly enough,

They say stay at home,

Which has a different energy to it,

You know,

But we see different,

Um,

Societies.

Yeah.

Here in Israel,

They use isolation is the main word.

Yeah.

So different societies choose different language.

Uh,

Most of it,

Social distancing.

Yeah.

Most of it is like,

Is not the best that we could do.

Yeah.

Because it emphasizes a certain aspect of the experience.

Yeah.

The isolation,

The separation.

Yeah.

The social distancing.

Um,

And it doesn't emphasize other things,

Which are there.

Yeah.

Like sense of compassion or care,

You know,

What happens or,

Or home,

You know,

If we look at the American usage,

Yeah.

Like it emphasizes the home sense more than the lockdown.

Yeah.

It makes quite a difference.

Um,

So these things really matter,

You know,

What,

Um,

How words shape our experience,

Impact our experience.

And so it's,

It's really helpful to remember that and to remember that there's more possibilities,

More possibilities that are,

Um,

Available to us.

So the words we use,

Our speech has an impact,

Which can be very powerful.

Yeah.

Really,

Really powerful.

And I think those examples I just gave,

We were playing with this and,

And,

Um,

Again,

I said some of these examples,

But instead of social distancing,

Using compassionate distancing,

What happens when we change the language in the language that we use?

When we change the language in that way,

Instead of lockdown or isolation,

Um,

Thinking to myself,

Saying to myself,

I'm on retreat right now.

Yeah.

It's involuntary,

But that's what I'm doing.

Yeah.

I'm on retreat right now.

How does that change?

Yeah.

Or impact my experience.

And it might not be completely from,

You know,

Black to white or,

You know,

Red to blue,

But it just might kind of be somewhere on that spectrum in between the two,

Which might be a better,

You know,

Especially if you like purple,

Then somewhere on the spectrum between red and blue,

You know,

Might feel I'll choose between yellow and blue actually and be in the green.

But anyway,

You can see how I'm playing fabricating my own experience right now,

Just with colors.

Yeah.

So we can,

You know,

It's just about also remembering the possibilities,

Remembering the impact,

Remembering the power.

So our words,

Our speech have an impact and they're powerful and they affect others.

Yeah.

That the person who's right here in front of me,

Um,

Myself,

But also wider and wider circles.

Yeah.

When we begin using particular language or terminology as a society,

Then it affects wider and wider circles.

And so through our speech,

We can strengthen in our societies,

In the world we live in,

We can strengthen,

We can support,

Um,

You know,

Yellow or blue.

Yeah.

We can,

We can have an impact on that,

You know,

Whether it's divisiveness or hatred,

Or justice and equality,

You know,

We can really impact that with the language that we use.

I often give this example of,

Of,

You know,

Being in Israel and,

And the Hebrew language is completely gender divided.

I may have given this example with you guys as well.

So it's when you speak in the plural,

You have to choose when you say us,

Yeah,

You have to choose,

If you're going to speak in the masculine or the feminine and the commonly used form is the masculine.

Surprise,

Surprise.

Yeah.

So even a group of women,

When they speak in the plural about us,

About themselves,

We'll use the masculine form.

That's the common form.

Okay.

That has an impact.

It has a huge impact.

Huge.

And we can change that.

Yeah.

I've been doing that now for probably about five years when I teach,

Especially when I teach in Israel,

I speak only in the feminine or sometimes I speak in both.

I say the feminine and the masculine and slowly more and more people are doing that in the meditation circles at least.

Yeah.

And writing that way and calling the teachers,

The group of teachers in the feminine,

Because there's more women than men amongst the teacher body here in Israel.

Okay.

So these things are,

You know,

They,

We start with something and it's weird and it's hard.

Yeah.

But it may be it matters to us.

Yeah.

Maybe I don't want my nieces to grow up in the same place.

Yeah.

Grow up in the same kind of language that I grew up in.

Yeah.

Where their identity is,

Is constantly over powered by the male.

So that happens to be important to me.

So I,

I kind of make that effort and it's weird and it's difficult.

And then it starts to,

To bear fruit.

I remember speaking to one of my younger nieces when she was about eight and again,

Children has to be,

There's no neutral word for children.

It's feminine or masculine.

And I said to her,

You know,

Actually when someone asks your parents,

How many children they have,

They should say,

We have three daughters,

Not three sons.

It is what they would be saying because they have two daughters and one son.

You are the majority.

So kind of all of that,

You know,

We,

We play with it.

Yeah.

What matters to us?

And it makes an impact.

And I remember her face was like,

Wow,

Really,

You know,

Really.

Yeah.

So through our speech,

We,

We make the world.

Yeah.

We make our own mind and we make the world.

We fabricate experience for ourselves and others.

Yeah.

Both internally and externally.

Yeah.

Words have a lot of power.

And I want to give an example of this from,

Uh,

I've spoken about her.

I'm sure I remember,

I think on the previous retreat,

I was also,

I just watched,

I just watched some interviews with Dia Khan and I've just watched one of her films recently.

So I'm going to give more examples from her.

Um,

And for those who don't remember,

Which is absolutely fine,

She's a filmmaker,

Norwegian,

British filmmaker of Pakistani Afghan heritage.

And,

Um,

Her last film made in 2017,

Uh,

Was inspired by an experience she had,

Uh,

I'll,

I'll write her name in it at the end.

Um,

An experience she had,

Uh,

When she was interviewed for the BBC about,

I think about kind of multiculturalism and she made a really simple statement in that interview.

She spoke of,

Um,

The fact that,

Um,

People like her parents who immigrated to Europe from,

Um,

Other countries and other cultures,

Um,

Had to accept that they wouldn't be able to,

Um,

Take their culture from their home country and bring it as it was into say Britain.

Yeah.

And not be affected by the culture around.

So they had to,

To accept that.

And she said equally people of,

Um,

Say white heritage in the UK have to accept that the UK will never be a,

Um,

Only white society,

White only society.

Yeah.

So everyone has to accept as a basis for living together.

Well,

Yeah.

That change.

Yeah.

That change is happening by the fact that we're here together.

So that was her statement of something like it.

And as a result,

She received,

Um,

A barrage of,

Um,

Very serious,

Some,

Some very serious hate,

Uh,

And threats and,

You know,

Really horrific things.

Um,

A lot of it from the U S where,

Um,

It's legal to say those things.

Um,

And she decided that she wanted to understand,

Yeah,

She wanted to understand what,

Um,

What led to someone,

Yeah.

Feeling that way,

Holding that,

Those views,

Speaking,

Yeah.

Speaking out these,

These views.

And,

Um,

And so she started reaching out and she ended up contacting,

Um,

People,

Particularly in the U S and she went there and she spent a year and a half doing interviews with white supremacists and neo-Nazis and getting to know them.

And when I was watching the film,

Uh,

One thing that I want to bring here and really touched me,

Uh,

Was the way she communicates,

Yeah,

The way she communicates.

So there were,

There's a few pieces in the film that after she's had some dialogue with someone for a while,

It might be a few hours.

It might be a few days.

Yeah.

At some point,

She says to this other person,

Who's always a white man,

She asked them if she can read to them,

Some of the messages she received.

Yeah.

And when they give permission,

She simply reads out,

Yeah,

To them,

Some of these messages.

And she asks them how they feel when they hear that.

Okay.

How do you feel when you hear this?

And it's really,

It's so powerful.

Cause you know,

Here are these really tough,

What we perceive as very tough individuals.

And,

And then she reads out these messages to them and she's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

She's,

They're all very contaminant.

Um,

And before I,

I,

I say what happens,

I'll just stop and say that what is really interesting is of course not only what she says,

Yeah,

But how she says it and not only what she says,

But how she So the communication,

When there's communication between two people,

It includes body language.

It includes the tone of voice.

It includes the facial expression.

And what really… Are you hearing me clearly still?

Yeah,

Okay.

And what was really powerful about the way she does all of this is that you do not hear in her tone of voice.

You don't hear blame.

You don't hear shaming.

Yeah,

There's no finger pointed.

There's interest.

Yeah,

There's interest.

And there's that question,

How does this make you feel?

When you hear this,

How does this make you feel?

And at least in the interviews that made it to the film,

You see the impact immediately.

There's a softening.

Yeah,

There's a softening in the whole body language of the person she's speaking to.

And there's also discomfort and you see it first in the body and then they say it.

This makes me feel uncomfortable.

Yeah,

I don't like listening to this.

Yeah,

So there's discomfort and that in itself is incredibly powerful.

Yeah,

You just see that.

And it's not the first time they've heard someone called,

You know,

A derogatory term because of the colour of their skin or because they're a woman.

But here in this context,

So there's this immediate change of the softening and the discomfort.

There's a space where they can voice that and say that.

And then there's also change over time.

Yeah,

Which is very,

Very interesting.

So I think three of the people that she interviews end up leaving that whole movement and that whole way of life.

Yeah.

And two of them are very,

Very involved and very high up.

One of them was the head of the American neo-Nazi movement for 20 years.

So they're very,

You know,

This has been their life for a very long time.

And so the change in the moment,

The change over time.

And you know,

They say it's because we got to know you.

Because you became our friend.

So it's very,

Very powerful for me.

So for communication to be meaningful,

Yeah,

Listening needs to happen.

And we come back to the listening that we started with.

Listening needs to happen.

And this includes listening as we're speaking.

So this is something De'Akhana was doing very well.

She was listening to the other.

When is the right time to bring this in?

And this is also one of the most powerful teachings of the Buddha about right speech.

Is it timely?

Is this the right time for this?

It may be true.

It may be useful.

But is this the right time?

This person in front of me hear it.

Can I hear it?

So really,

She really embodies this listening.

Listening as we're speaking and also listening as another speaks.

So when we're in conversation,

We're hearing and we're also listening.

And the two are not the same thing.

Not the same thing.

So there's the sensory aspect of the hearing.

There's the mental aspect of the interpretation and the comprehension.

And when we start seeing this,

The listening and the speaking as co-arising,

Arising together,

Mutually dependent and impacting on each other.

So the way,

And we know this from our own experience,

The way someone listens to us impacts what we say,

Impacts how we say it.

We know that.

We really know that.

The way of listening colors what is said as well as colors our own perception if we're the listener.

So the way we listen also colors what we hear,

What we take in.

So this is true in communication between us and it's equally true in communication within us.

The way we listen to ourselves.

We also have different ways of listening to ourselves with patience and without,

With harshness or with kindness,

With a certain expectation or an openness.

So it's the same when we listen to each other.

It's the same when we listen to our own experience.

So the way I listen to experience affects how experience is perceived and it affects how it appears and it affects the range of responses that's available to me.

And so just for a moment I want us to do a little experiment to close.

Just pick one person on the screen,

Doesn't matter who,

And see if you can listen to that other person with your whole being even without them saying anything at all,

Even with all of us being muted.

Just pick one person and just listen to them and see what happens.

And just listen to the other and listen to what is happening in you.

With openness,

Doesn't need to be anything in particular.

This is part of our practice these days,

The practice of listening and of speaking and of connecting across screens,

Across telephones and through the walls of buildings.

We do that in our practice all the time.

So yeah,

Thank you for your listening and your practice.

Reviews

Soothing and also powerful. Many thanks Zohar 🙏❤️💫