You know,
Christ himself went through periods,
It would seem,
Of loneliness,
Of anger,
Of abandonment on the cross.
Are these states compatible with happiness?
Is it possible that either because of one's programming,
Because of one's culture or simply because of one's human psyche and body,
One would go through all kinds of sufferings and yet somehow be above it all?
Before enlightenment,
I used to be lonely.
After enlightenment,
I'm still lonely,
But loneliness isn't what it used to be anymore.
Loneliness,
Emptiness,
Where do they come from?
What causes them?
Is it possible that they would disappear completely?
I think so.
You know,
We Christians continually teach that Jesus was a man.
He was a human being like everyone else and like every human being was subjected to all of these things.
Does one eventually gradually outgrow them?
Some of us do,
Others don't.
Jesus could outgrow them,
May not have outgrown them.
One knows so little about this,
But this much is clear that one does have a state of serenity of happiness even when these clouds pass by.
Let me give you an example to show you what I'm talking about.
You see,
You've got the clouds and you've got the sky.
And many of the oriental masters will be saying before this state of what they call enlightenment or what I'm inviting you to do,
To see,
Before they saw,
They would identify themselves with the clouds and they'd be all caught up in that.
After enlightenment,
They identify themselves with the sky.
Oops,
There comes a cloud,
Black cloud.
It comes and goes.
I'll show you how this is done this afternoon.
Again,
It's so simple,
It seems incredible.
And after a while you say,
Hey,
About six months since a black cloud came,
But you know,
I'm not going to make my happiness depend on their coming or not coming.
Get what I say,
What I'm saying?
All right,
Great.
Or else what's going to happen now is you're going to be tense about not being depressed.
Oh gosh,
Now another cause for it.
You're going to get attached to this imaginary state that you call happiness.
So what we have to do is watch for those attachments,
Understand them,
See that they are based on a false belief and they will drop.
Then you'll know what I'm talking about.
How about having a question from here?
Then we go back to calls that are coming from outside.
Anyone have a question here?
Would you stand up please and wait till Chris comes along with the mic?
That'd be great.
Give us your name.
Hello,
Father.
I'm Peter Shay from Ford University.
Father,
You've been saying a lot about being able to experience suffering and depression and yet still be detached from it.
I'm trying to understand clearly what you're saying,
But it seems such a contradiction so that you can be happy and depressed since depression,
As I've always been taught,
Is the absence of contentment and happiness.
I'm still a little unsure about that.
That's a good question,
Peter.
I'm glad you're pressing it because it'll help me to make this a bit clearer.
Aren't depression and happiness two contradictory states?
I think this is what you're saying,
Right?
Yes and no.
If for you,
Happiness means thrills,
Fun,
Pleasure.
Yes,
They are contradictory.
But thrills,
Fun,
Pleasure are not happiness.
What are they?
They're thrills.
They're fun.
They're pleasure.
They're not happiness.
Happiness is a state of non-attachment.
You know,
For many years I didn't even think such a thing existed.
For me,
To be happy meant to have fun.
To be happy meant to win,
To get what you wanted.
This is what people ordinarily understand by happiness.
Most cultures understand happiness to mean you get what you want,
So you're happy.
You know the way it is?
Yay,
I got what I wanted.
I'm happy.
But that isn't happiness.
That's a thrill.
That's getting what you want.
Depression is frequently,
Not always,
Not getting what you want.
It's the opposite of the thrill.
You go in for thrills,
You're going to be depressed.
It's the other side of the pendulum.
Oh,
You're going to have to do a lot of thinking on that.
It's the thrills that cause the depression.
Of course depressions have physical causes.
