Choosing Happiness

Zen Master, Joseph Emet, shares his wisdom and some of his meditative songs on how being happy is the smart way to be.

Transcript

So hi,

I'm Tom Evans and it's with great pleasure that I welcome Joseph Emmett back to The Zone Show.

Hi there Joseph.

Hello Tom,

Hello,

Nice to be back.

Yeah,

So was it one book ago each that we spoke,

I think?

Yes,

I think you had,

Since then you have written a book and so have I.

Yeah,

And actually there's lots of similarities between what we've done,

Which we'll discuss as we go along.

So the new book is Finding the Blue Sky,

A mindful approach to choosing happiness here and now.

Just read the book and I've got a question for you,

Which is probably the only question we need to explore in this conversation is,

It's so logical and the benefits of being happy are so overwhelming,

Why would anyone choose not to be?

Sometimes it's an unconscious choice.

You're used to a state of mind which may be less than happy,

Which may be unhappy and you just go along with that because it feels so natural to you.

And when opportunities arise to change your mind,

To go toward a more positive state of mind,

It doesn't even occur to you.

I think in order to have a choice,

I think you have to sort of have a glimpse of something else,

Would you say,

To go toward?

If you only see one thing,

If you only see the tunnel,

You know,

You go through it.

But if you have a glimpse of something else,

Then the choice becomes more possible.

But most people have experienced happy times at some point or other in their lives.

Is it just a conditioning?

Is it a general malaise in society that in the media tends to report more negative news than positive news?

Is there something endemic?

Or is it that in finding happiness,

It's kind of where we're evolving to next?

I hope that is true,

But I'm not completely sold on the idea.

You know,

Psychologists talk about the negativity bias.

They say it's built into evolution in some way,

Because they say that you're a fish swimming in the sea and you see a small fish,

You make a lunch for it and you miss.

No big problem.

You know,

There'll be another opportunity to feed.

If you miss that dark shadow coming over from above,

Which may be a shark,

Then it's game over.

You know,

You don't get a second chance.

So we tend to pay attention,

At least many of us,

Most of us perhaps,

To negative worrisome signals.

Because that's like a flight thing.

So is it a more evolved strategy then to engage with the shark in a dialogue and a communication and help the shark out?

Because some fish swim underneath the shark,

Don't they,

Cleaning the shark.

So are they more evolved in their strategy?

Certainly.

I look at them on those nature shows and I wonder myself,

You know,

This two-faced attitude of the shark,

You know,

Being nice to some and vicious to others.

I think that the evolutionary thing doesn't always bring us happiness.

Take us men,

For example.

We are,

You know,

95% of the people in jail are males.

All those wars,

All those,

There are currently 40 armed conflicts in the world.

They're all started by men and they're also,

You know,

They're the men who are fighting it.

So our evolutionary urge to compete,

To dominate,

To win is not bringing us happiness in this world because our survival is no longer at stake.

Your survival,

My survival is no longer at stake in the same way as the caveman who,

You know,

Walked out of the cave and there may have been tigers lurking behind that tree or whatever,

You know,

Or people from the neighboring tribes,

You know,

Out with their,

You know,

Swords or whatever.

So yeah,

We have these leftover impulses from our evolutionary past,

Just like we have some vestigial organs like the appendix and so on,

That do not necessarily bring us happiness in this world.

But there must be some smart strategies to being happy.

So for example,

There's happiness index of countries,

Isn't it?

I think Denmark is fairly high up there.

The UK is halfway up the tree,

Which is a bit surprising.

But if you've got a happy nation or happy village or a happy town or a happy business,

Then you're going to get more productivity.

You're going to have less people getting ill.

Therefore,

It costs less to run the country.

So isn't it the smart way to be these days?

Definitely.

And it's enshrined in the US Constitution,

You know,

The right to be happy.

The trouble is,

It is assumed to be a personal thing.

I mean,

There's no happiness police that,

You know,

And it's sort of OK,

It's in the Constitution,

But the government doesn't do anything to ensure that you're happy,

Particularly,

You know,

In the US.

And some people think quite the contrary in some ways,

You know.

So yes,

I think I think if they went sort of an extra mile in schools and public health in all kinds of ways in their work,

Work situation,

Vacation,

You know,

Very few people take holidays in the States.

Even a week holiday is unusual.

Very few people even take sick holidays in the States.

Yeah,

So the government is not doing anything.

Although,

As you say,

It is it is beneficial for public policy.

Yeah.

And obviously,

You've got a big military spend and a big health care spend.

And this is one way of spending less on each and having more for education and nutrition and all the good things in the world.

Yes,

And a little bit of mindfulness in education,

By the way.

I do a little some workshops for teachers at the teachers conventions and the like in the schools and all the initiative for mindfulness in schools comes from individual teachers.

It doesn't come from the Ministry of Education.

It doesn't come from above because it comes from below.

Isn't that interesting?

I've got some good news to share with you on mindfulness because someone asked me the other day.

They said,

Is there a time when it's too young to meditate?

When is the earliest someone can meditate?

And you know,

We're both on that app called Insight Timer.

And somebody put a comment on one of my meditations is that they were breastfeeding.

And they found that if they listened to one of the meditations while breastfeeding,

The baby was calm and didn't cry as much because obviously it's changing their chemistry,

The chemistry of the mood and everything.

So technically,

You're not too young to start meditating.

And I guess it would even work for fetus in the womb as well.

I must tell that to my daughter.

She has a one year old son.

She can listen to any of your songs and that make it a lot nicer.

So this idea then,

We just spoke about regulation,

Didn't we?

One of the first chapter in the book is about regulating your moods.

How do you go about then,

You know,

When we've got all these these thoughts that cross our heads each day,

We wake up in the morning and this brain starts up and when we go to sleep,

It switches off.

How do you begin to regulate your moods?

I give the example of a bike rider,

You know,

A bicycle rider.

You look at it and looks like the rider is just going straight through without any effort.

But to the statue on that bike and give it a push and you'll see what happens.

I mean,

It's going to be crashing down.

What the bike rider does is steers a tiny bit right and left because she knows when she's a little bit out of balance,

A tiny bit,

And she steers to counter that.

So the first thing about mood regulation is to be aware when you are sort of losing it,

You know,

Where you're losing your balance,

Where you're getting aware that you're getting angry or you're getting upset or you're getting anxious.

And the doing could be listening to a meditation,

One of your songs or just actually tuning into your breath or go out dancing,

Whatever.

Well,

Is it as simple as that?

Is it as simple as hanging around with happy people?

Definitely.

You know,

I'm very lucky that my partner is one of those naturally happy people.

And I really appreciate being with her even when we have a so-called heated discussion.

Five minutes afterwards,

It's all gone.

Like she just turned the page.

She's completely forgotten it.

She has no desire to come back to the issue.

And she's back to her sunny self.

Definitely some people,

Some people,

Is it upbringing?

Is it genes?

You know,

Those two are so closely knit that it's hard to say where one begins and where the other ends,

Whatever.

But she certainly has,

You know.

Okay,

So is happy breastfeeding is the way to start all of this?

I think so.

I think so.

My daughter has been has treated her baby with a smile all the time.

It's really showing.

This guy smiles at you all the time.

And it's really a charmer.

And I guess that's what you talk about.

And you talk about going for the honey is that we want to go for the the barbs on the on the rose when there's some amazing nectar to be had.

These don't get them to don't get barred by the the thorns.

They go straight for the honey.

Yes.

That that's an allusion to a section in the book where talk about being meditation and being is the E E E.

I mean,

That be like the bee,

Go for the honey.

There may be,

You know,

Things around in the situation in your relationship,

In your life that are less than sweet,

Shall we say,

Just like there are in our environment all the time,

Physical environment.

But the bee goes straight for the honey and ignores,

You know,

Whatever the dog poop or whatever is around goes right to the honey.

So when you talk about mindfulness meditation,

Then,

And obviously,

Some people find it easy to meditate,

Some people find it easy to create space in their life to do it.

Some people get nicely addicted by it.

And they say,

Well,

You know,

I got hooked when I remember,

I found that on days when I did meditate,

I had better days.

And when I didn't meditate,

I had worse days.

So I found this nice addiction to meditation.

Is there a is there a honey trap and the center of the flower in mindfulness meditation that people can gravitate towards and zoom into?

Well,

You know,

My teacher,

Thich Nhat Hanh,

Used to when he guided people and he offered guided meditation,

Of course,

The first instruction was get back in touch with your breath.

The second instruction was slow down the breath.

And the third instruction was find a measure of contentment here in your heart or find happiness right now.

And those words contentment,

Joy,

Happiness,

They stand for the whole gamut of positive emotions.

I think that you cannot meditate with negative emotions,

With hatred,

Anger,

Fear.

You can ruminate with them.

You can grude with them,

But you cannot meditate with them.

In order to meditate,

You have to find a measure of positivity.

So yeah,

I really think that at its core,

Buddhist meditation is not emotionally neutral.

It veers toward the positive,

Although there are traditions,

Buddhist traditions that are emotionally neutral.

I was very happy that I lucked on a tradition that brought me happiness and joy consciously.

And yeah,

Thich Nhat Hanh is one of those people.

Well,

You talk about finding it right now.

So you very kindly,

Before we started to record the show,

Said that we could share some of your songs.

Would you mind if we shared one right now?

And the one that jumps out right at me is First Find the Beauty.

Should we share that right now?

For sure.

It was one of the first ones I wrote as a matter of fact.

Yeah.

I should say before I share this is that we both reconnected recently,

And we both wrote in a book this year.

And we share something that we've got two books,

And people can invest in the book and it helps us pay for our bills when they do that.

But independently,

We didn't check in with each other.

Your meditations that accompany the book are free,

Freely available.

And I'll put a link down at the bottom of the podcast.

And my meditations that accompany my book are also freely available.

So obviously coming from a very similar place.

And my theory is that these are gifts that come through me and not from me.

And therefore,

As they're passing through me,

They should be shared out freely.

And in doing that,

It makes people happy,

Makes me happy when they're happy,

And happiness comes back.

So it's this lovely happiness spiral that gets set up by doing things like this.

I'm glad you agree with my procedure and you support it.

Yes,

I do believe that way as well.

Fantastic.

So let's now share First Find the Beauty.

First find the beauty in your own heart.

Then sing a song or take a walk.

You'll see flowers bloom all around.

Find the beauty in your own heart.

You'll see flowers bloom all around.

First find the beauty in your own heart.

Then sing a song or take a walk.

You'll see flowers bloom all around.

Find the beauty in your own heart.

You'll see flowers bloom all around.

First find the beauty in your own heart.

Then sing a song or take a walk.

You'll see flowers bloom all around.

Find the beauty in your own heart.

How sublime,

Wonderful.

Thank you for sharing.

What comes over me in all of your songs is actually the sense of fun and playfulness that you have when you're putting them together.

Oh yes.

You know,

Feeling comes first and I start writing it and the feeling continues in the same direction.

And yeah,

I express a certain feeling and that feeling is cheerful and happy feeling for sure.

Yeah.

And the songs are also,

You might say,

For the practice of positivity in a way or happiness.

In my personal mind,

You know,

Those two are somewhat related.

Mindfulness,

Happiness,

Positivity that makes three,

Sorry.

They are related in some way.

Yeah,

I notice if you scroll down the page,

You get to some longer meditations,

Which are sort of 10,

12,

13 minutes long,

Things like that.

The one I liked especially was reducing rumination.

I thought that was a lovely thing.

Goes with that.

If you like that first chapter,

I'll actually get a bit later on in the book,

You talk about rumination as well,

Don't you?

But I like the fact that the songs are short.

So you want a quick sort of a quick Joseph Emmett Zap.

You can just tune in and give us a little boost at the middle of the day or something like that.

Yeah,

I recommend to people who come to study with me to take a meditation break,

Just like they take a coffee break during the day.

You know,

As you mentioned,

The songs,

Most of the songs are about three minutes long.

And you know,

People complain about not having enough time to meditate.

But I don't think they can complain about not finding three minutes.

And you can,

You know,

Put your earphones on,

Earbuds on,

In the train,

In the bus,

In the coffee shop,

Take a walk,

Whatever.

And it'll bring you to the same space that you experienced during a longer meditation period.

You know,

Even if you're the world's greatest meditator,

Like you meditate for two hours in the morning,

Whatever,

By three o'clock in the afternoon,

That's a big memory.

You have to reconnect with that space,

Reconnect with that.

And that's what the songs are there for.

I love that.

And I love also the fact that you seem to positively advocate active laziness.

Well,

That was a bit of a quote from Thich Nhat Hanh.

You see,

Thich Nhat Hanh knows his clients.

He knows that the people who come to Plum Village to take retreats,

To study with him,

Are the go,

Go,

Go types.

They're the stressed out types.

And so I think his use of the word lazy is sort of tongue in cheek a little bit.

And what he means by laziness is not an inability to work,

But an ability to take time off from time to time so that your stress does not build during the day,

During the week.

You see,

If you're always going,

Going,

Going,

Your life can turn into a series of chores.

So his idea of laziness,

Take a break.

Enjoy life.

Enjoy what you're doing.

Enjoy your partner,

Your house,

Your life.

Take a break.

So yeah.

And he uses that word,

I think,

Just to just to be provocative.

I've not met him.

And I've only heard about him through you,

Primarily through your books.

But he sounds like a man,

As are you,

Who kind of doesn't take themselves too seriously.

You know,

You're serious and professional in your work,

But you don't sort of take yourself seriously.

Is that a way of managing this happiness state?

Because you know,

You're not trying to keep up any strange pretense of who you are or who you are not.

Yeah,

That's interesting.

The thing you make you bring about being serious.

Yeah,

His meditation is not a grim faced meditation teacher scowling.

You know,

I think if your meditation teachers like that,

Run away,

Find someone else who is a little more who is more of a smile on his face.

Yeah.

And I guess it's like it's like anything in life,

Isn't it?

There's not just one flavor of meditation in the same way.

There's not one flavor of religion per se.

Is that you've got to kiss a few frogs before you can find your your prince or your princess.

I love the way you put it.

Yes,

It's very true.

And the unfortunate thing is that people go and study with someone and then they think that is the way to meditate.

That's the way to go the way he does it.

And yeah,

I think that looking around a little bit is not a bad idea.

Absolutely.

I've been loving being on the Insight time wrap because there's so many good meditation teachers on there.

Every day,

I just look at the new the new and noteworthy section to see who's coming in.

And and there's there's an Irish guy I love listening to called Tony Brady.

He's fantastic and an amazing American woman that's got this this voice of milk and honey talking about honey.

She's just and she just the sound of a voice.

You just sense that the state she's in and you get into the state that she is in or Tony's in when they're recording their meditation.

So you mirror the state which is which I guess is part of it.

It's not just the words and the music.

It's the the empathy you have with the meditation guide.

Definitely the sound of the voice is sort of part of our being.

And maybe the words you use are part of your doing like you are promoting your suggesting your teaching.

But the sound just like the sound of a bird song,

For example,

Also carries meaning a person's way of being is the meaner,

The way he talks.

Definitely when I definitely identify with what you say.

So shall we take another short break?

And it would be appropriate if we did so if we listen to your song time for a break.

OK.

It's time for a break.

Breathe in,

Breathe out.

Here you're at home.

The only home you have known.

You and the sun.

You and the cloud have always been together.

Life after life.

Find peace where you are.

Be at ease in your heart.

Enjoy your day.

Find peace where you are.

Be at ease in your heart.

Enjoy your day.

Take your time.

Breathe in,

Breathe out.

This is your home.

The only home you have known.

You and the sun.

You and the cloud have always been together.

Life after life.

Find peace here and now.

Be at ease in your heart.

Enjoy your day.

Now I've avoided taking sponsorship and advertising on The Zone Show.

But this is turning into a production with breaks.

But I like this kind of break.

And I guess it's what you were saying before about the day.

You know,

We got this idea.

If you do end up meditating,

You can meditate at the start of the day.

But there's other good times to meditate.

I guess when,

One,

When you're flagging.

Or two,

Before you start on a creative task or before you do a presentation.

That kind of thing.

Well,

If you go to Plum Village,

Thich Nhat Hanh's retreat centre in France.

You wake up to singing.

And almost half of them are singing before the morning talk.

There is singing before the work period.

There's singing before the walking meditation.

So I found that very inspiring.

You know,

Being a musician,

I felt I'd found the right place for myself.

But yeah,

I think the idea of singing a mindfulness song before passing the vacuum cleaner is not a bad idea.

And with you,

What comes first?

Is it the music or the words?

Or does it vary?

I think it's more productive if the words come first.

If the words come first,

It's relatively easy to find a melody.

But if you don't have an idea,

A seed thought in your mind,

You're going to go round and round and no amount of gorgeous music can save that.

I mean,

You listen to some of the songs on the radio and,

You know,

There's not much meaning behind them,

You know.

So the melody does not always save the situation.

So we now think about the song that people are singing.

Let's get a little bit more serious now.

There's a song coming out of Mr.

Trump's mouth and a song coming out of Hillary Clinton's mouth.

And they are songs,

Aren't they?

They are a rhetoric and they've got a tonality and this sort of stuff.

If you were running for president and doing this seriously,

How would you sing to your electorate?

Well,

You are bringing an interesting subject in a way.

The idea is sort of looking for your garden,

Looking for,

Imagine you're a songbird looking for your garden.

I think many of us are doing that in a way.

And those people are sort of defining what kind of a garden they want to live in,

What kind of the US they want to be in.

And they have the power to transform the garden as well.

So I think Bernie Sanders,

Many people regret that he wasn't,

He's not still there.

He made that very clear,

The kind of garden he wanted to be in,

He wanted to bloom and flourish.

And each one of these people are promoting a certain kind of garden and it has to do with who they are at the core.

So my garden that I would promote would have to do with who I am at the core,

Also my core values,

Which would have mindfulness,

But also other values such as being compassionate and promoting positive emotions,

Positive feelings in the workplace,

In the school,

In the government and things like that.

If you end up in a garden of someone else's making,

So we're going through this Brexit thing in the UK at the moment,

And a lot of people are very negative about it and they think it's going to be the end of civilisations,

We know it.

And either if Trump gets in or Clinton gets in,

Other people are going to feel that they're in the wrong garden.

Is it possible to do something about it just by sorting your own garden out,

Even if you're in a bigger garden that you're not totally happy with?

Yes,

Up to a certain extent.

In one of my poems,

Be Yourself,

It goes like a oak tree in the woods,

Like a daisy in the woods,

Daisy on the path,

Like the swallow dancing in the air,

Be yourself.

Let the others have their say,

Let the children be themselves in play,

Be yourself,

Your true self.

I think that the oak tree is not bothered by,

You know,

Picnickers,

I don't know,

If they're doing silly things or whatever,

If they're talking about politics,

The oak tree is not bothered,

The daisy is not bothered.

Exactly.

And how can we get to someone like Trump?

Let's say,

I've talked before about you're never too young to start meditating,

And he's in his later years,

Let's say,

Of his life.

Is there any time it's too late to start meditating?

I don't think so,

No,

Not at all.

Some people are lucky they find this kind of path earlier,

Some people find later,

But I think the idea,

And the Buddha said as much,

That it brings you some benefits at every stage,

At every age.

And I've heard there's some research that says it helps with people,

It helps delay the onset of old age diseases like dementia,

And also just helps people,

If they've slid into that state,

Maintain their mental state a little bit longer.

Yes,

Yes.

You know,

In all those approaches,

I am for a complementary approach rather than an alternative approach.

And you talk a lot about that in the book,

About appreciating what you have and taking care of yourself,

And these being mindful practices,

You know,

We're not talking about a period where we are mindful,

So like you don't go to church on Sunday and then you have this other life for six days of the week,

You're not just mindful for the period that you are meditating,

It's a way to be all the way through the day.

Well,

I was at,

I think,

Nathanael's retreat one day,

And during the question and answer period,

Somebody asked him,

How long should we meditate each day?

And he said,

All day.

I could just see that person being so disappointed,

You know,

I think he was probably hoping for 20 minutes or something like that.

But what Nathanael means by all day is he means be mindful all day.

And that comes back to a story I say,

In the book,

You know,

Each chapter has three sections,

The first section is a Zen story,

And I love these crazy Zen stories,

I'm a fan of them.

And then there is a time for reflection where there is sort of,

Go through the same trip by sort of talking about it.

And then there is a practice section to put into practice what you learn.

And one of the stories is a true story from my own experience,

I was going to China with Nathanael,

He was going on a tour and trip to China,

Teaching and pilgrimage combined.

And I applied to go with him,

Together with 300 other of his lay students.

And then I looked at the schedule,

It was so full,

Like seven in the morning,

Go to this temple,

Give a talk,

Eight in the morning,

Go there,

Whatever.

And I went to one of the organizers and I said,

I don't think I could handle this,

There's no time for rest.

And she said to me,

Why don't you rest during the activities?

That hadn't occurred to me.

And so what Nathanael means by meditation is mindfulness,

Sort of not being,

You know,

Not losing your freedom,

Not sort of being,

You know,

Stressed out during an activity,

Somehow keeping a loose,

Relaxed attitude,

No matter what you're doing.

And you can do housework with that attitude,

You can wash dishes with that attitude,

Or you can do it,

You know,

With a striving kind of attitude.

And that makes all the difference.

And I guess that goes back to the active laziness,

Doesn't it?

Yes,

Yes.

I think those people who considered laziness one of the deadly sins were not talking about this kind of laziness.

And obviously this goes round to another aspect of the book.

The idea is that,

You know,

When you get into this,

We're on the Zone show,

So when you're into the Zone,

Right,

And you're into this meditative state,

I call it the EMT state,

By the way,

Extended me time.

So you get into this,

Where time takes this squidgy quality on,

And you always seem to get things done in time.

But also the world seems to turn up with all the right things that you need at the most perfect time.

So you don't end up having to spend any time,

For example,

Looking for clients or looking for connections.

As I mentioned to you,

I wrote this book this year that I wasn't planning to write,

The publisher just turned up and said,

Would you write this book and can you do it by this certain time and in this format and this number of words?

So I didn't have to spend any time thinking about writing a book and then finding a publisher to publish the book.

It was the other way around.

And I guess this is another positive aspect of this active laziness,

Isn't it?

Yes,

Yes,

Definitely.

But don't forget that you wrote quite a few books before that,

And that helped a tiny bit.

Oh,

Exactly.

There was some effort.

I mean,

Thich Nhat Hanh wrote seven,

Five books,

You know,

They didn't just happen.

So I think that,

And my own story that I just told you a few minutes ago,

Illustrates this.

Don't look upon laziness and striving as an either-or proposition.

It's not either one or the other.

It's attitude and so on that can be blended together.

Now,

On the note,

You could have written this book at any time.

Why did you write it actually right now?

What was the reason that drove you to bringing it out this year?

I think I was ready.

And,

You know,

I wrote to you saying that one of the amazing things about writing books is that it helps you articulate your thoughts and it helps you go forward in a way.

I mean,

I'll give you this example.

Say that you're meditating and the thought is going through your mind,

Oh,

Things are going to go badly tomorrow.

I'm going to screw up that presentation.

I'm not quite sure.

You know,

You keep saying that,

Ruminating,

And you keep saying it to yourself a hundred times.

But if you were writing it down,

It's not likely that you'll write a page full of things are not going to go well tomorrow.

Things are not going to go well tomorrow.

I doubt whether you're going to write 10 pages of that.

You write it once and it's finished.

So there's a certain therapeutic aspect to writing,

I think,

Which I really appreciate.

And I guess to have written this book,

You must be in a happy place.

Yes,

Yes.

I was able to articulate what happiness is for me.

You know,

Happy people,

Not all of them know what they're doing to preserve and keep their happiness,

But they are all doing something.

Some of them know exactly what they're doing,

But others don't articulate to themselves.

They just are that way.

And so in this book,

I was able to sort of look inside and see just what is it that helps me find my balance?

Just what is it that helps me regulate my moods?

It was that kind of a trick.

Yeah.

Well,

I think those stories that you start every chapter with do that because they set every chapter up in a very happy way,

Because they're quite cheeky in a way,

Aren't they?

There's always a twist in the tale.

And they're short.

You could read the book just by reading all the times for the stories.

Yes.

If you just want to have fun,

Do that.

Just read the,

There is what about 12 chapters and each chapter has a story to start it.

And they're fun stories.

Some people call it crazy wisdom,

You know,

This Zen wisdom,

Because Zen teaching is paradoxical.

Instead of preaching to you saying,

Do this,

It sort of tells,

It gives you a situation where you don't do that.

And sort of,

You sort of see that that leads nowhere.

The opposite leads nowhere.

And you find your way instead of sort of being,

You know,

Shown the way.

It's a very different kind of path,

The Zen path.

Every guest I've had on The Zone Show for the last three or four months in the middle of The Zone Show interview has spurted out some words that could make the title of their next book.

And I think a book written by you called Crazy Wisdom would be absolutely fantastic to read.

You have to go to check on the Amazon website before you start writing that book.

But the sentiment behind it though would be very beguiling.

Yes,

Yes,

Yes.

And what is next for you then?

So what was your plans for 2017?

And why should you be back on The Zone Show this time next year?

Well,

If all goes right,

I'm planning on another book with the title A Nightingale in Search of a Garden.

And it would be the idea that we're all nightingales looking for a garden.

It might be a job that's sort of congenial to you.

It might be a love partner that is,

You know,

In harmony with your values.

It might be a landing place in another country like there are 50 million expats,

You know.

And these people are also looking for a garden where they can be themselves.

I mean,

If you were a woman in,

I don't know,

In a very repressive place like Saudi Arabia,

For example,

I don't think you particularly feel like you're in a garden,

You know,

In your ideal place.

And I think all of us feel that way while we're looking for a job,

In school.

And some of us have that syndrome even as we grow up in our own parents' homes.

I think it's a common feeling.

And do you think the world is becoming happier?

If we come back in a year's time,

Are we going to be in a happier,

Nicer world?

I don't know.

There are certainly people who think like that,

That there's going to be less violence,

That there's less violence today than before.

You know,

Some of the violence in old days,

Biblical days,

Was absolutely horrific,

Unimaginable.

Yes,

I personally don't necessarily think so.

The idea is that we look upon being human as being on the top rung of the evolutionary scale.

But I think in the tradition of Buddhism,

This is true so far as our potential is concerned.

Our being sort of high on the evolutionary scale has to do with our potential.

We all have the potential to be Buddhas,

And unfortunately we have the potential for the opposite.

And to look at it another way,

A more productive,

Congenial way,

We all have the potential for being stressed out,

For being anxious,

And so on.

We all have the potential for being happy,

Radiantly happy,

And positive as well.

And I've got to say that your book helps people discover that potential and exercise that potential.

In the most gracious way,

I mean,

If you read the book,

You'll just,

At the end of it,

Think,

Well,

Why would I want to be anything else but happy?

It doesn't make any sense to be the other way.

Great.

I think you are my favourite reader.

I think everybody should read that book with the same spirit.

Thank you very much.

Well,

Listen,

I look forward to having you back on The Zonent Show again next year to speak about the Nightingale Finding Its Garden.

Is that the right title?

Did I get that right?

Something like that.

Lovely.

And in the meantime,

Should we listen to the third of your songs,

Which I think is very appropriate,

The Earth Keeps Turning.

But before we do that,

Joseph,

Where's the best place for people to find out more about you,

The books,

And the songs?

Well,

The meditations and the songs are available for free download at mindfulnessmeditationcentre.

Org.

Click on books once you get there.

And the first two books on the list contain about a dozen songs each.

And there's another section with practice songs there also.

There's about another dozen.

So about three dozen songs on that website.

Fantastic.

And Center is spelt the correct way,

The English and French way,

Which is C-E-N-T-R-E,

Which I'm very happy about.

Yes,

Yes,

Yes.

I have to be very careful not to say the correct way when I'm talking.

Exactly.

I can get away with it because I've got a big pond between me and America and Canada.

But it's been a joy and a pleasure to speak to you again.

I wish you every deserve a success with the book and looking forward for our paths crossing again before too long.

Thank you very much.

I can't believe it's over yet,

But I guess you're right.

Yes,

It is over.

Yes,

Time flies when you're having fun in wonderful company.

So in the meantime,

And before we speak again when the next book's out,

Let's listen to the last song in this podcast,

The Earth Keeps Turning.

Thanks again,

Joseph.

The earth keeps turning every mountain and sea The mind that keeps pace is the mind that's free Enjoy the changes,

Enjoy the day You're also changing as it fades away Feel your love,

Feel your peace Stay with the light at every turn Enjoy the changes,

Enjoy the day You're also changing as it fades away The earth keeps turning every mountain and sea The mind that keeps pace is the mind that's free The earth keeps turning every mountain and sea The mind that keeps pace is the mind that's free Enjoy the changes,

Enjoy the day You're also changing as it fades away Feel your love,

Feel your peace Stay with the light at every turn Enjoy the changes,

Enjoy the day You're also changing as it fades away Thanks for listening to The Zone Show.

I've been Tom Evans and I've got some great news to share with you.

My new book,

The Authority Guide to Practical Mindfulness is available and it includes 10,

10 minute guided meditations to get you into The Zone.

So come to my website www.

Tomevans.

Co to find out more.

Reviews

A great listen while exercising before work. Thank you 🙏🏼

A great fan of both of you

Merci beaucoup pour ce moment délicieux et apaisant.
j'ai particulièrement apprécié les chansons que je ne connaissais pas
à bientôt

What a lovely happy chat, with funny little songs too! Why would I choose anything but happiness…? Beautiful, thank you 🙂

Interesting, it’s always fun to listen to thoughtful conversation and get new points of view.

Wonderful... thank you.

This is so uplifting and serene. Bookmarked. Thank u for this gift of wisdom. I so appreciate the snippets of meditations that can easily be utilized as needed throughout the day.

Lovely, thank you☺

I loved this conversation. Thank you. We listened to it over dinner and I stopped the player to discuss some of the points. The songs were so beautiful and reminded me of when I was younger and wrote songs, for the pure joy of it. I listened to your other podcast with Joseph Emet and ordered his book, Buddha's Book of Meditation and love the book! It was exactly as you described.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️💐

Spiritual Merry Men - enjoyed the talk, quaint middle ages like music/songs touched. carried off

2 beautiful people to listen to! Thank you : )

Lovely! 💗
I also loved the idea about "the garden" when you guys talked about the US presidential election

Very interesting & informative. Often times, wish there were a 'replay' to hear songs, website info again. Thank you so much. 😊

I am smitten! Enjoyed the lightness, positivity, infectious playfulness and ease between both Light Workers! Thank you for acquainting me Choosing Happiness!✨❣️🌟

Turned my day around. Thank you. :-)

I enjoyed this. It helped me view happiness in a fresh, new way. Thank you. 😊

I love The Zone Show! Thank you for wonderful guests and conversations!

Thank you for a lovely, happy encounter!

Wow! Just what I needed today .. many pearls of wisdom .. Graci!!!❤️🙏🏽