Home Birthing In Singapore

A casual chat with a friend who recently experience Home birthing in Singapore. It is not a common practice and there are interesting (and disbelieving) things I hear from her experience.

Besides my personal interest, I also hope that this offer some information and support to those who are considering this option in Singapore.

Transcript

Hello,

In this episode we are going to talk about home birthing,

Specifically in Singapore.

So home birthing is something that I personally is very interested in and I was thinking that if ever I go through pregnancy and I will be going through the birthing process,

I would want to opt for home birthing.

But I know that in Singapore it's a very rare occurrence,

Most people don't opt for home birthing and I was also clueless about the administrative and logistics.

So when I knew that Constance has opt for that and she has gone through that,

I was very excited and I wanted to have her hop onto a call and have a conversation.

So in this call we basically just have a chat,

There's no specific direction,

I was just asking questions about whatever comes to my mind and there are many moments whereby I was speechless,

I was in disbelief about how difficult or how ridiculous it is to to actually have to do certain things just so that it is possible to have that process in place.

And that almost has nothing to do with the home birthing process itself but more of the logistics and the preparation and the administrative stuff that is required in Singapore.

So I hope that this call that we have for this episode,

This sharing,

Gives you some information that you will need if you are considering going through this process in Singapore.

And if you have further questions or if you'd like to know more,

Send us a message and then we'll get back to you.

I spoke to Constance before,

Previously we talked about pendulum,

Right?

Recently she has gotten a new role or a new identity in life and a very interesting process which I personally,

In the past I thought about it that if let's say I am pregnant,

If I am going to like give birth in Singapore or anywhere,

I would like to have a home birthing.

But I have not gotten into that myself but she did.

So I'm interested to hear about the experience as well as having her share her experience that might be helpful for anybody who is looking at that because in Singapore it's a very rare,

It's very uncommon thing.

Yeah,

It's extremely,

Extremely small group of people doing it.

Yes,

So maybe you can share with us like like the proceed,

Like the maybe the administrating or the logistic,

Right?

Because I feel like that's a problem in Singapore because there's very little support.

Yes,

I realized it's even little,

As in it's even lesser support as what I originally thought.

Like you know initially when I talk about birth it's like,

Oh pregnancy,

Give birth and probably that's it.

Like any other doctor would probably see your child.

But the surprising thing that I found out along the way is that even the pediatric,

You have to call it the kids doctor,

There's only one that is I think one among the few that is willing to see kids that are born at home.

Oh no,

Okay.

So like everything is like a there's no choice but there's only one.

Okay.

Things like the PD,

Things like the gynae as well.

So there's only one gynae,

One doctor that's willing to attend home birth.

Oh,

Okay.

Well,

I mean I kind of expected that in Singapore but I didn't expect this extreme.

I expect it to be one and only but like I thought it would be like okay maybe you have like a few but very very little options but I didn't expect it to be one.

Okay.

Yeah,

One.

Oh,

So now we have a,

So me and my husband was like if we want to have the next one,

We must do it like quite immediately.

If not later the doctor retire then we die.

Oh my god,

Okay.

That's future plan.

So actually,

I'm not sure about legally procedure.

Is it something that is easy to or like it's a smooth process to work around because like you know in hospital,

The moment you give birth already then after that,

They will be able to certify and then like give the birth certs and everything.

Right.

So then how does it work when you do a home birthing?

And that is one thing that we also only discover after the birth of the child.

So recently,

I think this year,

ICA has make it that hospitals are able to e-register online like register online the certificate of live birth.

So parents can actually go to the LiveSG app and do the birth cert for the child.

Apparently for home birth,

So what Dr.

Lai mentioned which is the only gynae that willing to attend home birth.

So Dr.

Lai mentioned that they don't have or rather he don't have that permission or authority to issue the notification of live birth online.

Okay.

So what he has to do is to give a hard copy letter for us to bring down to ICA to register the birth which is a bit lame given that Singapore 3G digital online and every other thing right.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean I am thinking that in this case is a bit more troublesome but not in the sense that they don't even like recognize or they don't like yeah so because Singapore being a very safe like very everything will just be have like double triple kind of protection or layer.

So I'm thinking like imagining or saying things like okay we cannot verify whether this kid is really born by you or like in Singapore or you know that kind of thing.

Like I imagine having those kind of scenarios which I think I feel like it would be even worse.

So hearing this is that okay it's not so bad like as is that you just take the hard copy go down even though it's yeah like you say it's a bit lame because I mean after you you'll give birth and then like have so many things to do but you still have to just physically go down to just get a cert.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I mean now at least people who are looking at it can factor this in.

I know it's not something that we know beforehand like really you know until we were taught after delivery you know.

You need to go down to the ICU.

Then we were like eh you know nowadays can go like SG.

Then the doctor said no no cannot you think you can go down.

Oh okay.

It's very funny.

It's really quite funny.

These are the small little things that I don't think I have seen people wrote about about home birth because most people when they write about their home experience they talk about the water birth.

They talk about how much the delivery fee is but other than that there's a lot of small things that you wouldn't know until you are in it.

Yes.

Yes I agree.

Yeah like really all of this.

Yeah because like previously I've I mean as I said just now like I've always been imagining that if I am going to do it I will want a home birth.

So I was looking at like people who do home birthing but not in Singapore.

So they will talk about like you say the water process,

The process of the actual birth giving but all these things that is more administrative and logistic.

I feel like it's a very individual like depending on which country you are in and it's the whole the whole planning and the whole process as well.

Yeah.

Okay.

Oh my god.

Yeah so so the do you guys have to book the or it's just because I'm imagining home birthing is also not like you're going to a surgery room and then there's a fixed timing right?

So it's like you cannot predict when it's gonna happen.

Right.

You cannot prepare for that as well in a sense.

Correct.

So you can't prepare for when the birth is going to happen because if you are going for home birth you generally and going for natural delivery for sure.

No pain relief method whatsoever at home.

Yeah.

So the but then there are also things to prepare parallel to birth parallel to the home birth as well.

Simple things like because during the birth birthing process there should be blood loss,

Water loss.

They talk about water tap.

There's also water that will drip out of you when you are stepping out as well.

Yeah.

So protection layers have to do it properly,

Have to pre-plan properly.

You may have to set up beforehand as well.

Then there are also things like if you are hiring a birth photographer then you will also need to prep the area to look nice.

And so this like because I'm imagining not just the photographer but like that there's some assistant in in the procedure right like is it the gynae is there or like the like.

I would say that assistant will be I think what they call the delivery assistant but we most countries tend to call them doulas.

So doulas are definitely I feel like they are definitely required to be around.

I am not too sure if Dr.

Lai allows a home birth without doulas but I hired a doula team to be with me.

So they are I would say the only person the only people that are around to support the birthing person.

Okay.

So I am also imagining because it's not something that is predictable or planned for.

So basically they are on call kind of thing right.

Then okay I this definitely did not happen to you but I'm also just imagining this right.

Two person call them at the same time to say that they're gonna give birth or like how do they actually work around this thing because it is not predictable and then if two person has engaged me to like okay help in their birthing then how does that.

It sounds chaotic right.

Yeah it's like if the person A call me say that hey I'm giving birth now already then person B also just nice giving birth then like how does that oh my god.

Okay so the interesting thing that I was being told by my team of doulas is that yes there are babies that have the same estimated due dates or guest dates but somehow the babies kind of arrange around each other that they never had to be in like two birth consecutively like that parallel.

So it's kind of like Nike place so somehow or rather like the divine planning thing.

Yeah divine planning.

But okay so that's the joking part.

Then the administration part is of course for doulas.

If I'm not wrong I'm sure they work on the tech team basis.

So there's always this main person.

There's always a secondary person who will back up if the main person cannot make it.

Ah okay then that makes a lot of sense.

Like okay I heard a team now.

Is it a whole team is here or is it that the team you are working with a team of them that anybody can come and support you that kind?

I think it's more of a main person and a second person because when you hire a doula you also want that particular person because you feel like that doula is safe and gives you some kind of security and able to help you versus another person on the team.

So you're one that main person for sure.

Yeah got it.

Okay yeah I'm thinking there's any more logistic or any straight questions to ask or talk about because I am also very interested to hear your own personal experience like more logistically or administrative area of information or things that you feel like it's important to talk about or?

Let me see logistically or administrative.

I'm looking around my house trying to remember what is it like before that.

I think more or less should be about it because things like knowing the timeline of switching to doctor life for example.

I think that's also important that you don't want to he has a certain time frame of when the mother by which I think it was week 24 or 26 where about that needs to see him so that he can like talk to them about home birth,

Preparing things for it.

Then of course there's also the administrating staff of searching for the birth team that you want to work with.

I think a team is very important because you are like birth is a very intimate experience.

You want to have people who you trust to be around so interviewing to last also take time.

Finding out who you are comfortable with that's the main thing that I did as well.

I guess another part is about talking to the birth partner.

The birth partner has to be supportive.

Yeah,

Of course.

Especially for home birth,

The birth partner is a lot more hands-on as compared to a hospital birth.

So whoever the partner is must be able to agree and be there to support in times of vulnerability as well.

Yeah,

Okay.

I mean I think that's a good segue into that because now I'm also wondering when the process of having your partner be into this,

Is it the moment you suggest he's like okay let's do it or is it like there needs to be certain convincing,

Persuading or enrolling the idea?

I think thankfully for me,

My husband is very supportive of me.

So when we did the interview with the doula,

The doula asked my husband like,

Are you supportive?

What do you think about it?

And his reply was,

Oh as long as she feels safe.

I think he knows that safety is very important to me.

So he's extremely supportive and he apparently turns out to be someone who could handle crisis moments.

I would say birth is quite a crisis moment.

And being able to stay calm and collected while getting things done and being able to see your partner,

The birther,

Being in pain,

I think that's not easy for most men.

Yeah,

And would you think or consider that actually this experience strengthens the couples or like the partnership between the two of you?

That's a very good question.

I would believe so.

Right,

Yeah.

I'm also imagining like if in such a situation,

I think it's a it's a bonding experience that experience that nobody else or you cannot create or recreate or or you know like cannot intentionally create something like that.

Yeah,

Yeah,

Yeah.

And because there's like pain involved,

What's involved is seeing your partner in pain.

So I think that helps to strengthen or I think gives a different depth to the relationship.

It's like for me,

I see that or I realize that my partner really can support me.

Whether if it's by words of encouragement or really by preparing the things,

I know that I can trust him.

I think that trust can be carried into say,

Parenthood as well.

And okay,

Now I'm also thinking like not your case but if let's say someone else's case whereby they had the opposite experience.

I feel like it's also,

Imagine a crisis moment whereby the two couldn't come into like.

They cannot work together right,

The both of them.

Yeah,

Oh that's also quite sad.

I mean,

Okay,

So if that really were to happen to me,

I think that would have destroyed my entire birth experience.

Yeah,

And I don't think it's just the birth experience because I mean,

Okay,

I'm imagining myself in the situation that if let's say I am in that situation right,

It's really like you said,

It's a crisis and I would say it can be traumatic right.

And I would be holding that trauma you know,

I'll be like thinking about or I'll be suffering from like PTSD from it.

Like,

Oh my god,

I can't even trust my husband to do this.

You know,

Okay,

So that's the home birth part.

Of course,

You talk about birth traumas and all this above and beyond other things to talk about like anything can happen even for home birth,

Even for hospital birth as well.

Right,

Because I mean,

We are both,

We both work around the same thing.

So like trauma is not something that is new to us.

So if you are listening to this and you feel like,

Oh like it sounds very scary that trauma everything but basically trauma happens when our body experience something that is out of the norm or out of the usual or something that the body deems to be not in a safe,

Manageable,

Comfortable situation,

Right?

So birthing itself,

Even if you have the best team and everything,

It can also be traumatic for the body because it's not or it's not the norm.

Yeah,

It's a huge physical work after all.

Yeah,

Okay.

I feel like I'm just in a lot of like I'm in a space but I'm in like,

Wow,

Like there's so many things that I hear.

I'm like,

Wow,

Wow,

Wow.

But then it's like,

Okay,

What else do I want to ask and like hear,

Right?

Okay,

So we talked about your husband,

Your partner,

Then like is there anything that stood up for you personally in the process or like me generally?

How's your experience like?

I would say that to disclaimer,

I also look like I was more of like I had a very idealized kind of a birth experience that I envisioned but it obviously didn't turn out to be that way.

Also because I realized that I'm not that kind of person.

Okay,

So to put it into context,

I was telling my doula that oh,

You know,

Like,

You know,

They will ask what kind of birth experience that you want that you are envisioning.

I'll say,

Oh,

I want this gentle birth,

You know,

Like very calm,

Very happy,

That kind of stuff but I was like screaming my head off.

I was like groaning like,

You know,

In a very loud manner.

So,

I'm like just totally opposite of what I wanted to create but after which we also realized that actually it's just not me.

It's not that it's someone that I want to be but maybe it was like I feel like it has to be that way like more or less a home birth equals to gentle,

Equals to calm,

Equals to,

You know,

In a very nice,

Flowy environment but me as a person,

I'm more loud.

I'm more probably chaotic as well.

So,

It's also about accepting.

I feel like it's also about accepting who you are as a person.

Okay,

Actually when you say this,

Right,

Is it okay if I share about the Reiki part thing?

So,

Constance,

Before the birthing,

Constance came to me and then I did like,

I did a Reiki sending for her birth process and it's very interesting because during that thing,

You mentioned the word empowered.

So,

I was really imagining like a very powerful,

Gentle,

Okay,

Okay.

I mean like it can coexist but I did not imagine that.

Maybe,

Maybe.

I think okay because at that point in time when you were what is it,

Streamlining the Reiki for me,

You asked for a couple of words.

So,

I thought that the words that are more like what I really want to bring up through the experience is really empowerment.

Yeah.

So,

Yeah,

It gets to that powerful,

Transformative but empowered.

Perhaps,

Perhaps that powerful or the empowerment that you,

It's just not,

It's not just about being gentle.

But I think okay.

Embracing your own,

The parts of who you are which like you say is like you know not,

Not soft like loud and everything which I feel like it sounded at least to me a lot of alignment,

A lot of confluence in that empowerment and then like the loudness and the powerful.

Yeah.

So,

I like that even though it didn't turn out the way that I idealized but it still turned out to be the kind of experience that I want.

It doesn't sound like it makes sense but yeah.

Okay.

So,

I feel like it makes sense in a way because you have done work on yourself to have the awareness to say that okay this is the ideal situation but you accept the experience of whatever comes true.

Right.

Yes.

Try that process of what comes true.

Yeah.

And I think that is something important also as you mentioned that the the envisioning of the ideal situation of vision because the the you said during the interview the doula will ask and I am assuming that as humans we all have the tendency to think of ideal situations but yeah knowing and also being prepared that the process,

The actual process itself may or may not be close to what you ideally imagine.

It's something to be prepared for.

Yeah.

How did it turn that way?

I don't know how it turned that way but I feel like this is this was this is also a very important point for people to to hold when they are going into that process.

Yeah.

Okay.

If I would say that trust the you know the surrender into who you are that sort of thing that's very much not just in home birth but also a natural birth in natural unmedicated birth which can also happen in hospital.

I do I do hear of I mean friends or friend's friend or or like some like my friend's client or whoever that they are more into like a holistic birthing or things like that.

So before the birth whether is it home or hospital they do prepare themselves like for example you look at Reiki and probably other things that you have prepared and then I think other things that I've heard are like you know they go into like learning about breathing techniques.

Yeah.

And like they go into meditation state and yeah do you do you do you want to share if there's uh any other things that you so-called prepared or prepared.

That's also the part where I thought I would do it but I didn't.

So okay that falls into it uh breathing techniques.

There's also okay breathing techniques I did do you know I did breathing which is not very difficult just deep breath in and out going with the intensity but there's also this part of birth that's called hypnobirthing a little bit of hypnosis and all.

I wanted to do that.

I didn't.

So they throw another part of the idea away.

So preparation wise like what you mentioned breathing is one.

There's also other sort of preparation that I feel is very important but it's not just for home birth.

Like this is for birth in general.

Things like preparing the perineal area for stretching so that you don't get tears.

So I'm the one with no tear.

I'm the one that can walk like just hours after birth.

Much I'm a bit like nothing happened afterwards.

That takes a lot of preparation.

It takes I say it takes determination and it takes consistency to keep doing the perineal massage uh or the epinol on a daily basis.

How long did you do it for?

I started from week 36.

So that's for a few months.

Okay actually having said that I asked that question but I think you need to bear in mind that every body is different.

Maybe for you is that that period of time but someone else needed a longer or someone else needed a shorter time.

It's possible.

So I think just just a disclaimer that like it's just a reference point not like okay that is the the duration to do.

And also a medical disclaimer.

It depends on whether if your gynae uh approve it.

My gynae Dr.

Lai mentioned to start from 36 weeks.

Some may not say to start so early as well.

So it really depends.

Okay.

I think the the amount of things that you prepare also help in um supporting you to embrace and flow with that that process when it didn't turn out the way you think it should or like the way you envision.

Not that you think you should like the way you ideally hope for.

Yeah.

Okay.

So that's like that's physical preparation.

There's the mental part.

I think um my entire pregnancy journey I held on to the mantra of trust my body,

Trust the baby and trust the process.

Yeah.

So I mean okay by now they might not be able to accept that but because I already have been following you so when you you are in that process I do see the things that you share and I felt like um the whole process was very flowy,

Very easy.

Like there's a lot of ease in it and there's a lot of growth and learning where I am reading the stories.

Yeah.

And I felt like there was a lot of insights that um may not be accessible if not for that process,

The pregnancy process.

I believe so which is also why I really like my birth experience a lot and I really feel that uh home birth is that one journey that can bring something different from a person.

Oh.

What what lands upon you?

Uh actually from the start the moment we so before we click the record button we did chat a bit so just the background story.

Then after the moment I start recording and then we start talking in spirit right um I I felt like I'm just in a land of wah wah wah wah wah because it was it was very intentional that we did not go into what we want to talk about before we click the record button.

So in a way I felt this when I click the record button I'm I'm receiving a lot of information that wows me and my body and then I'm like struggling to think of things to ask or say so that like we can bring out more things because I'm like a part of me is just like oh my god like can I just like see here and listen but then I also um I'm also being mindful that because I want to bring out experiences I want to hear a lot more things from you that I'm like constantly trying to think of like okay what else to ask yes so um I might need to the support in this that if you have anything that you feel like you want to share then um also just throw it out because at this point I'm I'm in a space of like whoa this is so interesting and so amazing but I also because I did not go through the experience so then I did not know what I did not know right so I'm like okay I whatever that I can imagine I try to imagine us but I'm now in the space whereby I'm not sure whether I there's anything else to to bring upon or bring out I think um if I were to you know say anything from my point of view or where I can think of um interestingly home birth for me wasn't just a birth but it was kind of a something that I want to experience to allow me to be very real like like to be myself to allow me to be who I am I think it's also stems from the fact that like you know when I was young when we were young a lot of us are very controlled or being told not to be a certain way and I feel like this home birth thing that I see for other people can allow you to be that very different person that I always be wanting to be so which is why I went on to choosing the home birth not just for a gentle uh gentle transition to the earth for this little one that's crying but it's also more for myself I would say that it's more of a selfish reason also I think you brought up how that there's a lot of things that we are just conditioned and taught to that you know um the pregnancy and then you go to a hospital it's almost like it almost sounded so natural yes not natural at all like I mean okay I'm not saying if you go to a hospital it's not natural but like the the whole there's a lot of things that we are being or shown um that it almost seems like it's the most natural way but it's like a default way maybe it's like so many things that is not natural or not not so I wouldn't say it's supposed to default I think before it's the word yeah but the default is actually home birthing that is more of like you know centuries ago I mean I think I wrote that in my uh post then uh okay that's I think that's my personal IG I can't really remember but the also the reason why I wanted to have a home birth experience was because I think somewhere they talk about how uh our body remembers things or we will get like you know um wisdom that's being passed down from ancestors and generation ago so I trusted my body that my body knows how to birth yes actually when you said that I also am okay so I in the hospital I feel like okay I just really want to disclaim again right we are not anti-hospital yeah yeah we are not there are there are really certain situation whereby people feel okay rather most people feel safer in the hospital yes it just go where you feel safer that's really all because I'm also thinking that there are situations whereby because birthing is a very like you say it's a very intimate sacred process right and if let's say the doctor or the hospital that you go to is not it doesn't feel safe it actually very is it might actually feel very invasive and very yeah so so I feel like that is also something to to take note of and like you say like choose the most the one that is safest for you yeah it's really about safety I feel yeah also because I strongly believe that uh you can only birth or you can only be in a vulnerable state when you feel safe yes yes and as well as the baby because the moment you don't feel safe the baby will not feel safe yeah and then of course the entire delivery process will yeah and and probably that's how birth traumas actually start not like the childhood trauma but there's a birth trauma that people experience as well I think spinning off from that uh the reason for I think the reason for a lot of people choosing for water birth generally is because they want the child to have less of a birth trauma in a very smooth transition yeah because like when they uh when they are first out into the world like into earth they are still in the warm um watery environment that's very similar to the womb it's kind of like a oh I do what I can to bring him the best part as much as I can I think the idea of not shocking the environment doesn't suddenly shock from like a warm watery to a cold surgery theater yeah that was the word that I used like why I don't want um but okay moving back context context there's also hospitals that allow dimming of lights there's also hospitals that can do a watertight birth as well so all of this experience can still be done in the hospital environment so I think all in all the bottom line is really about having a safe environment for the mom and the child or the baby right yeah so that's the line that I'm driving across it's not about home or hospital or anything but the bottom line is always choosing something that is safe that feels safe for the for the mom and the baby yeah yes I mean home birth is just one kind of birth yes that's right yeah okay I'm a bit mindful because uh when you're when this is out right you're probably just hearing it but we are actually on a video call and for instance it's um actually having her baby in her hand and I'm mindful and I feel like I'm not sure whether it is something because the baby was a bit restless just now I do feel like it's something that you need to attend to or like I've already done that he's already latching yeah okay then you can can take a bit of time to like okay let's see right anything else but yeah I feel like anything that the baby needs at this point is a priority because I realized that um oh there's also something that I realized about working with uh mothers it's very interesting that I've been working with mothers or like have very close friends who are mothers and and into like personal development so I was saying how like you know we have all been uh taught or like conditioned to uh have our life work around our work but I feel like it's very right or it's supposed to be that we work things around our life that means having like for example this recording this thing should be around the baby's uh timing around your convenience and and not the other way around which actually I feel like majority of the society are actually in that space of I think working their life around their work and jobs and career yeah that's really quite unfortunate yes so I am now because I I feel like there's an increasing um work relationship or like uh conversation that is with mothers I realized this came up quite loud for me as well about being mindful to work around that for them or with them yeah that's nice of you I think it's something that I personally have a stand for to look at deconditioning all these things that we are being taught and passed down so it's perfect thing it's also something like you said that we are almost taught that the default route is this but people don't stop to think about what feels best for me what feels right what feels safe for me and things like that instead this is the job we're supposed to do then you just see this person we go this place and then we do that yeah I would say taking this quote-unquote course of action it's also part of like a rebellious like the rebellious scripting to be purposefully different from the majority of people yeah understand oh that's interesting I never thought about that actually like what rebelling yeah because I mentioned like I'm going to do it I was also up for that but I didn't think that it was now that you mentioned I'm thinking I always thought or wanted to do that because of this reason also yeah yeah like like I just want to do that you just want to do it differently experience it differently and also allowing people to see that things can be different something and things can be different and can be done yes yeah yeah now that was that's a that's something that I'm now like is it is it that I guess I guess we all have many different reasons why we chose a certain thing and all of them forms the reason yeah yeah makes sense I am silent or what because I'm helping the baby more and he's struggling on me um it's like birth is just part one there's a lot more things afterwards uh yeah the stuff yeah I personally feel complete in the sense that I I don't have any pressing questions or things I want to hear or know maybe for now I don't know whether anything will come out or what for you do you have anything that you feel like oh um I want to add on to or talk about maybe one last thing I shared about how home birth the reason for home birth was really not just about the baby but it's also selfishly for me so I guess the the main thing that I wanted to bring across to everyone is that whatever that you choose to do whether it is a hospital birth a home birth a water birth um whatever or even in life I think do it for yourself because that's when you are uh that's when you are doing things right from your heart or right from your core and that's where I believe things will flow more smoothly when you choose to do things for yourself actually as you share uh what comes to me is that a lot of times for some reason we are also taught to like you know considerate the thing of someone else but if we look at the equation right is that because you are the one who is going to birth the baby and it is actually only by and only the reg that you look for something that you are comfortable with all right because in the equation we cannot remove you to just make it good for the baby so that was what came out for me as you share and I think this is not just about birthing but in a lot of situations whereby we constantly think about something someone else but we forget that we are part of the equation to make the thing work yes but if only when we are true to ourselves then that's where I feel like everything can gel well together I mean yeah yeah like you said it's not just for birth it's like oh even your career choice even your choice of partner um who is the one to decide what is right for you I mean ourself agree okay um yeah I think so okay I think that's that's that that that couple of last sentence was really all that I wanted to bring out through the sharing of my home birth journey yeah okay yes thank you for sharing with us your experience um definitely we will have the link of how you can reach constants some some somehow like yeah yeah just just feel free to p.

M.

Me ask about home birth every other thing we did talk about the cost we talk about expenses we talk about quite a lot of things that it's quite difficult to be covered like yeah an hour or so and I also feel like um that is something that um it's it's more available like like you know the range and cost and everything but if there's something that you would like to find out more you can feel free to reach out to her and ask her and um yeah I feel complete she's complete yeah we are complete for this yeah we are good and I don't know maybe we will come up with another episode talk about when about parenting or about before we start the record button we are talking about um human design and and parenting so I have another friend who's uh very into using human design as parenting as well so perhaps cool conversation the next time around so yeah thank you for now thank you for being with us here and then we will talk again next time thank you for allowing me to share too the baby is out so just now your baby was back facing me now the face is out yeah okay and I will stop the recording