Me! What’s Yours Is Mine! All About Me! Did I Mention Me? (Season 2)

Narc moms expect children to love them unconditionally, but the reverse never happens. They have children to reflect their false images. They have children to use, abuse and control them. My mother stole my childhood and my identity. If I let her she would keep on sucking the life out of me. It is incredibly difficult and painful to acknowledge that my mother never loved me without blaming myself — she raised me to blame myself for everything. I share my healing journey in hopes to help others.

Transcript

Hello everybody.

I'm LW.

No lie.

And welcome back to the stuck stops here.

Episode two,

Season two.

That's right.

Tammy,

What do we call this episode?

Me me me me me me me me.

Do re me.

All about me.

Wonder why you gave us life.

Needed some place for your night.

Scattered glass across the floor.

A thousand cuts I reached the door.

No time left to borrow.

Souls filled with sorrow.

Pretty face and monster eyes.

A legacy that we despise.

Take my weary hand.

Come with me to an honest land.

So this episode is about narcissistic mothers.

Now there is a plethora.

I like that SAT word.

Good word.

Of information on narcissistic mothers.

I would say millions of books,

Millions of articles,

Thousands of videos.

So we're going to talk a little bit about.

But who's counting?

Yeah,

Exactly.

I counted.

I think I read them all.

So the narcissistic mothers and I'm going to actually abbreviate to narc moms because narcissistic.

If I say that too many times,

I'm going to sound like I'm drunk.

Your tongue is going to be tied in a knot.

Narcissistic.

Just like my old belly.

Not.

So like that segue.

So narc moms have what I call a volcanic and tsunami like way of being selfish.

Selfish is a pretty mundane word.

But theirs is oppressive and it ruins lives.

So that's why I named the episode Do Re Mi,

All About Me,

Let's Talk About Me,

Make It About Me.

Me,

Me,

Me,

Me.

Just driving that point home.

Me.

OK.

So narc moms do not have children for the same reasons that the rest of us do.

They're not excited for the birth of their child because they can't wait to see what they look like or what kind of personality they will have or who they're going to become.

I was conceived for two reasons.

Dos.

Two reasons.

To keep my dad from being drafted into the Vietnam War.

And she wanted more mirrors.

Wow.

Yep.

So narc moms expect children to love them unconditionally,

But the reverse never happens.

These children,

Including me,

Have to reflect their false images.

The children are there to use,

To abuse and to control,

And they don't see their role as a mother as life's biggest gift or something to be cherished.

But instead it's a burden they did not expect.

Are they hoping to have like a little version of themselves?

Is that the reason why they would have a child?

So they have another another of them in the world?

Brilliant question.

Brilliant.

Thank you.

Yes.

They thought they were creating mini-mes.

So what happens around age two is these human beings,

Not pieces of property,

Human beings,

Develop their own personalities,

Interests,

Desires and a will.

What a terrible disappointment for someone who's narcissistic.

Amen,

Sister.

So hallelujah.

Exactly.

So for the rest of us,

That's the best part of being a mom,

Seeing how they develop and their own personalities and having them become confident.

It's a beautiful process if you're not so fucked up that you can't appreciate it.

So,

So for the narc mom,

Every step away from her,

Any sign of independence is an act of betrayal.

So my mother hated all the work that went into raising a child,

As did my dad.

So there was no use for children unless they are achieving something that makes them look good or doing something that,

You know,

Helps them with their own chaos or relieve their chaos or projecting their false image onto them.

My mother did all of this.

My mother did all of that.

Children are a nuisance.

My mom never,

You know,

Loved spending the day with me or,

You know,

Taking me to someplace that maybe I would learn something or,

You know,

Celebrate anything that made me unique.

It was all about her all the time.

And she never wanted to educate me,

Engage me,

Enlighten me,

Nothing.

And it's very true for all narc moms.

So what she also often did was smother and overprotect,

Or I would say overcontrol,

Not protect,

Smother and overcontrol,

Which made it look like and feel like she was actually taking care of me,

Which wasn't the case.

That's really,

That's really frustrating.

It's frustrating and common.

Yeah,

Very common.

But didn't you,

You said your parents wanted you to achieve like that was to make them look good.

Yeah.

You know,

And to make sure they could brag about you like my kid is doing partly brag,

But actually it was a way for them to deny that they,

They weren't really being very,

You know,

Good parents.

Oh,

I see.

So your success was like them look like good parents.

Exactly.

Then now I don't have to do anything.

You know,

It was convenient.

Right.

So by,

You know,

Being poorly informed and controlled,

That kills any kind of confidence to grow and move away.

Of course.

Which is what they don't want.

They want to keep you right by their side for their convenience.

It's like a ball and chain.

It's a piece of property.

I was actually just thinking about that this morning,

That some of the choices that I made in life,

I wasn't paying attention to the opportunities I had when I was in college.

Such great opportunities.

But I wasn't paying attention because I was so wrapped up in my mother and how she was feeling.

And,

You know,

If she was sad or whatever she needed,

Even when I was from a distance,

I was so wrapped up in it that I couldn't see forward.

I was only looking back.

Yeah.

So there's,

You know,

Enmeshment,

You know,

Being enmeshed and boundaryless,

Sort of,

Not sort of,

It blocks any kind of truthful vision that should arise organically as you get older and more independent and more confident.

There is a big wall built.

And I think,

You know,

You're robbed of a childhood and an identity and the life is constantly being sucked out of you.

You know,

Everyone tosses around the term energy vampire.

It's a great term.

It's the same way being raised by a narcissistic mother.

Oh,

Narc mom.

See,

I messed up the cystic.

Your tongue got in the way.

I told you I knew it.

So it's over the on the healing journey at different points.

It's difficult and painful to face the fact that my mom,

You know,

She does not love me.

She does not.

And but she would probably disagree if you if you said that because her definition of love is distorted because of her personality disorder.

So,

Yes,

She actually believes she does,

Because that's what she thinks love is or loving your children is.

I do not think that way.

And I think a lot of people who have healed or didn't come from such toxic childhoods understand that.

So in a way,

When you grow up with that kind of dismissiveness,

Control and rejection.

You start to blame yourself because you can't,

You know,

Blame these godlike mothers.

You know,

After all,

Society tells you,

You know,

How wonderful they are.

Hallmark makes a billion dollars off that stupid fucking hate that I know.

That's my least favorite holiday.

Exactly.

Exactly.

They did Motherfucker's Day.

I might want to celebrate that.

All right,

Hallmark,

Come up with some shit like that.

That's every day.

So when you place the blame squarely on the narc mom,

Regardless of how horrible their upbringing was,

And it probably was for them to be created.

And that's very sad.

But the blame belongs for them not undoing that damage or trying to do things differently.

When you place the take the blame away from yourself and put it onto somebody,

Put it where it belongs.

That prevents the cycle from being perpetuated to the next generation.

Which is what you did.

Which is why I did after a lot of hard work.

Of course.

Which is what I did as well.

Just having these realizations,

Whether you had a narcissistic mother or codependent mother,

Just learning how to change that history and not perpetuate it.

And be different.

Be different from the way you were raised.

Raise your kids differently.

And one of the key ways to do that is depersonalizing these honestly horrific emotional abuse of events and emotionally abusive statements.

If,

You know,

When my mother tries to dig or compare me to somebody else or anything like that,

She's projecting her suffering onto me.

Because she feels that way.

For many,

I would say,

Valid,

Dysfunctional reasons.

I know her history.

I understand that.

But I don't have to accept it.

And you recognize it as projecting.

Yes.

It's projecting.

So when somebody has a certain impression of something and they put it on someone else,

Like you did this and you did that,

When they in fact did it and felt it,

That's projecting.

Absolutely.

It's a false image.

It's distorted belief system.

And you inherit that.

You know,

It's really interesting because I recognize it now.

I recognize it.

So when somebody is doing it to me,

I recognize it right away instead of internalizing it and saying,

Oh,

My God,

They said I did this and they thought I did that.

I think to myself,

No,

Actually,

That was them doing and feeling and saying that and blaming it on me,

Projecting it on me when it had nothing to do with me.

And that's actually a really freeing feeling.

It is.

And it's constant work.

I did have,

You know,

A challenging work experience the other day where somebody was projecting,

You know,

Her frustration onto me.

And for a couple hours,

I took it on.

And then you took it on yourself as if it was your fault.

Yes.

Internally,

I,

I was,

You know,

I kind of evolved where I would never react professionally.

You know,

The client's always right.

And that it wasn't that it was how I felt about it inside.

And it took a couple hours to say,

OK,

I need to revisit my toolkit.

And after a couple hours,

I was fine.

So that's why I'm saying the healing journey is is a never ending process.

You know,

Well,

That's why it's called a journey.

Exactly.

There's no healing arrival.

There's no destination.

No,

But it's a good journey.

It's a good journey.

Yes.

Always to a better place,

Not a perfect place.

Yes,

Of course.

So when you start seeing their their emotional games,

Guilt trips,

Control,

Manipulation,

They're they're handing you.

We talked about handing you a bag of shit.

You don't have to take the bag of shit.

You can say,

Oh,

I see what's happening here.

I'm not going to accept it.

And you can.

There are many ways to respond and you have to choose what's best for you.

I relay my experiences and my interpretation of my research to you.

And I keep saying I'm a doorway.

I'm a gateway.

I am not a solution.

I want to empower people with information to carve their own paths,

To decide how they want to heal and the steps they want to take to depersonalize these chronic negative experiences.

So when I look at it objectively,

I'm OK.

I'm not going to participate.

Why?

There's no upside.

I like that word depersonalize.

Yes,

They use a lot of it's called gray rock method.

That's one word.

Disengagement.

You know,

Even,

You know,

Stoicism,

As long as that word is used intelligently with emotional intelligence.

Stoicism does not mean I'm not feeling anything.

So I'd say in that sense,

You know,

In terms of depersonalized disengagement and stoicism is rationally labeling the experiences through a clear prism and not a painful one.

So you step outside of the situation and then look at it objectively.

Yes.

And it takes a lot of work to do that because you're hardwired.

So we can't we can't turn off our emotions.

You can't turn off your emotions.

And when you've been.

Traumatized from emotional abuse.

You're hardwired to see everything as a threat and everything as an attack to undo that,

Especially when you learned it at two and three and four.

To undo that will take a lot more than reading one book.

That's true.

It takes a lot of awareness and it takes a lot of work.

And that's why I call it a toolkit.

You know,

Visit your toolkit,

You know,

Whatever it is.

That's what I give.

You know,

All the resources that I have are different toolkits.

You know,

Build your own.

And that will help you make these experiences,

Which will probably not go away because from what I understand,

NARCs never change.

That's why we have to change.

That's right.

And our next guest,

Lizzie Petrosilla.

I hope I said your name.

I read up some Lizzie.

But more importantly,

The name of her podcast is Found Family Podcast.

And you were on that podcast.

I was January 1st.

So she interviewed you.

Yes.

A few weeks ago.

And now we're going to interview her.

That's right.

Because I found her story fantastic.

And I connected with it on so many levels because our experiences are very similar.

I'm like,

Oh,

I have to have you on.

And you've got to tell your story to my listeners.

And I'm excited to be bringing her on.

So after the break,

She will be live.

So don't go anywhere.

We'll be right back.

Come with me to an honest land.

No need to finish what they started until they departed.

Greetings to Lizzie Petrosilla.

Did I say it right?

Yes,

You did.

All right.

She has a found family podcast.

I was on it January 1st.

She is fantastic.

Has amazing story to tell.

And I am so excited to have you here.

So thank you for setting aside time to speak with us.

Of course,

Tammy.

Thank you so much.

And thank you so much for the introduction.

I'm so excited to be here and and chat with you again.

I'm honored.

We had a great chat on January 1st.

And before I get into the you know,

Talking about your found family podcast,

I you know,

I wanted our listeners to hear your story first and a lot of the questions I want to ask you were similar to what you had asked me because they were wonderful.

And when you have the same experience that I have,

The questions will certainly resonate.

So we started off,

You know,

I talked about this podcast about my mother being narcissistic.

And I wanted to start off by asking you when and how you first learned your mother was narcissistic.

I actually found out that my mother is narcissistic last year.

Believe it or not,

It was a very recent discovery.

I was actually sitting in a session with my therapist and I had been seeing her for a few sessions prior.

Of course,

They were all dealing with things about childhood and the bottom line,

Like the denominator all the time was always my mom.

My mom,

But kudos to you for having the bravery and the courage to go get therapy.

I highly encourage you.

Please continue with me.

Sorry to cut you off.

Thank you.

No,

Please.

That's OK.

I really appreciate that because it definitely took a lot of courage.

I was very hesitant and shy,

I think,

For a really long time and was trying to navigate towards all of these emotions and things on my own.

And it got to a point where I was starting to experience a lot of,

You know,

Obsessions and intrusive thoughts in all aspects of my life.

And it really boiled down to just needing to make the decision to seek professional help.

And that was really what,

You know,

Inspired and encouraged me to go and set up an appointment.

And so,

You know,

After,

Let's say,

Four or five sessions,

You know,

I was trying to incorporate other things that were going on into my life into the sessions.

And then when we got to a talk about my uncle,

Who was actually my mom's youngest brother,

I reached out to my aunt,

Who was married to him,

And asked her a lot of questions about him because he actually committed suicide when I was in high school.

Yeah.

And it was a very,

Very challenging time.

And,

You know,

My mom was just,

You know,

Completely devastated,

Of course.

And I didn't know what was happening because at the time I think I was maybe like 16,

16 years old when it happened,

Maybe 15.

So to make the long story short,

I had this,

You know,

This lunch date with my aunt,

Asked her lots of questions about my uncle.

She was actually the one that told me that he had narcissistic personality disorder.

I had no idea what that meant.

So when I went to a therapy session the following day,

Coincidentally,

You know,

As I was bringing up more discussions about my mom and talked about her brother and talked about the narcissistic personality.

So Lizzie,

You had lunch with your uncle,

I mean,

Excuse me,

You had lunch with your aunt recently and your uncle had committed suicide when you were in high school.

I just wanted to get the timeline down.

Yes,

Yes.

So the timeline,

Yeah,

I was 15,

Uncle committed suicide.

And,

You know,

My aunt was kind of,

I hate to say this because it's really sad,

But like she was kind of shunned from the family because of a lot of different things that my family didn't know was happening behind the scenes.

And I really wanted to reconnect with her and like establish a deeper relationship with her.

So last year was when I reached out to her in the midst of my like therapy sessions and asked her questions about my uncle and then she was telling me all this stuff.

So when I brought this up to my therapist,

She was like,

Oh,

Right.

And,

You know,

Narcissistic personality is sort of like what your mom has.

And I'm like,

Wait,

What?

So that was like,

That's the first time you,

Yeah.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah.

It was literally like maybe five,

Six months ago.

It was that recent and it was just like I was sitting there talking about my uncle and brought up this,

You know,

This like mental illness.

And then my therapist was like,

Listen,

You know,

I'm not I haven't sat down like,

You know,

She hasn't been diagnosed.

I would,

Of course,

Need to have like conversations with her,

But from all the stories that I've heard from you and what you've been sharing your adult life is like now and what your childhood was like,

She's like,

I'm,

You know,

Going to go ahead and say that,

You know,

With my expertise,

Like these are the signs she read the thing,

The information from the book about it.

And,

You know,

That was when I went home and just started,

You know,

Going through Google searches and learning a lot more and expanding my horizon.

And I think I might have mentioned this when you and I spoke on found family podcast.

I felt like every single article that was written was about me.

I mean,

It gave me chills.

So get that.

You might as well be talking.

Yeah,

That's how much like exact word for word.

So keep going,

Lizzie,

Because this is awesome.

Just absolutely,

You know,

The most eye opening revelations I found myself in every single article and that was so therapeutic for me because then it gave more more for me to talk about in my therapy session,

Which helped me to feel more in tune with myself and helped help me with my with my healing in my journey.

So really,

That was like where it all began.

I don't remember the exact month.

It was like,

You know,

Beginning to middle of last year.

So can you,

You know,

Describe once you started realizing that your mother had this personality disorder,

Was there any quote,

Unquote relief from think realizing that maybe you're not the sick one,

The bad one,

The didn't,

You know,

Dysfunctional one.

Yes.

Beyond like if I could feel my entire body breathing again,

Because for years and years,

I thought that I was the crazy one.

I thought that there was something wrong with me.

I thought that,

You know,

I,

I grew up with with friends who had what,

You know,

I would consider to be like what I called them like,

You know,

Oh,

Your mom is so normal.

And it really just showed me that I felt this tremendous amount of like disconnect from people that I was growing up with because family members friends,

Like a lot of them,

Not that they were calling me crazy,

But they thought I was overreacting.

They thought,

You know,

All these things.

It wasn't until I got to high school where one of my friends actually told me,

You know,

Lizzie,

You are not your mother's clone.

You are her daughter.

And I think that subconsciously,

You know,

I knew there was something mentally unstable about the way that she was acting and how she was treating me and just the way that the,

You know,

My parenting.

But I wasn't able to make any of these associations and at the time I was also so immersed in that in her world that it also felt normal to me that I thought,

Well,

This is just my life.

This is just how she parents me.

This is just what I have to deal with.

And,

You know,

When my friend said that it was still alarming,

But I didn't do anything about it.

So,

Yeah,

I mean,

Having this realization as an adult,

Because that was so I'm 28 now,

You know,

I'll be turning 29 in April,

But so I was 27,

You know,

Like 28.

And I wish that I had learned this sooner,

But at the same time,

I'm grateful that it happened when it did,

Because I feel like having gone through that,

I'm able to look at everything that happened with a different lens,

Like a different perspective.

And I actually feel like my healing and recovery is more profound now.

And I'm also in a position where I can now in the same way as you and your story,

You know,

Now go out and help other people who are going through similar things.

It's fantastic and kudos to you for being smart at 28.

Thank you.

Way longer than that.

So I'm happy for you that you will not have as many missed opportunities as I did,

Because you woke up so soon.

So,

Thank you.

Keep,

Keep it,

Keep it up.

Thank you.

So,

Can you tell me anything about your mother's childhood that you think may have turned her into a narcissist or caused her to behave in these unhealthy ways.

That's a really great question.

What I know about her childhood is that she had a very interesting relationship with her brother,

The one that took his life.

And from what it sounded like there was an event that happened.

I don't know the details,

But I feel as though there was something that had to deal with,

You know,

Her siblings,

And then what I've also now learned more so as an adult is that her father so my grandfather also has a narcissistic personality disorder and so I think that the relationship that she had with him is what must have,

You know,

Turned her into a narcissist,

And I one thing that I also just find very interesting about this question is that I'm able to sort of make assumptions based on stories that I've heard I'm able to sort of use my internal compass to sort of decipher things.

But one thing that I find most interesting that I'm sure you can understand and most likely relate to as well is that my mom is an expert at coming up with stories and,

And,

You know,

Making them sound so compelling and so believable that I don't actually know what to believe anymore to be honest and I think that that,

You know,

Really lends more questions than answers and and,

You know,

Does make me more curious but I almost think that my homework assignment will be is to kind of investigate more by asking other family members.

What might have happened or what they might know I mean,

I've had somewhat similar conversations with her trying to just not even about narcissistic personality disorder but just trying to get more clarity about her childhood,

But she either is being secretive,

Or there are things that maybe are too hard for her to even remember and it's it's her way of suppressing them and trying to just kind of avoid them that that we haven't really gotten to something that was this like aha moment.

Oh,

So you think as a narc she's denying and lying.

I got it.

Just want to make sure because you can't see my face so I know I can't do an emoji I roll through a mic microphone.

Well I'm I'm being sarcastic as well.

It's just so obvious like when you when you are living through it and you're like yeah of course that's that's how their,

Their game is how they play.

So what role did your father and or if any stepfather play or any male figure,

If any.

In what went on.

Yeah,

Really great question.

My dad is definitely one of the scapegoats he is the enabler,

My entire life.

And it really it makes me emotional talking about my dad because I grew up hating him,

Because of all of the things that were told to me about him.

And it is really hard to talk about,

Because I now see it,

But I truly hated my dad.

When I was growing up,

I truly hated his family because I was told time and time again,

You know,

I married your dad and he took me.

And it was miserable and it's your dad's fault that this happened and it's your dad's fault that this happened and his family is,

You know,

They were so mean to me and they didn't,

You know,

X,

Y,

Z and I never felt respected and like if their,

Their fault is their fault.

It's because of them that we have all of our woes.

And I believed it.

I mean,

I,

We were living very close by proximity to them when I was a kid.

And I would say we were probably about like an hour drive away from them.

And,

You know,

I was being dropped off to them a lot and,

You know,

Spent a lot of my,

My development years with them,

Like learning how to talk,

Learning how to walk.

I'm Italian,

My grandparents don't speak any English.

So Italian was actually my first language.

And my grandma takes,

You know,

Great pride in having had me at the house and really contributed to my early years because she was always present.

And yet there was this,

You know,

Constant battle between my mom and my aunt and my grandparents,

But not even my grandfather because he's also,

You know,

An enabler.

I'm not sure if my grandma also has like,

You know,

Maybe subset of like a narcissistic personality,

But from what I gather,

There was just this constant competition between all of them.

But I never knew what was going on.

I also didn't understand what was going on.

So I was torn between,

You know,

Seeing this love and compassion for my family and wanting to be there for me.

And then being beyond confused by my mom's responses to the way that they were treating me the way that they were acting.

And so I grew up believing all of this,

You know,

Anytime something bad happened,

It was always their fault.

And not to mention when religion was thrown into the mix,

Then it was,

You know,

Oh,

I'm the chosen one.

God is,

You know,

Like testing me and this is the devil that's coming to me in sheep's clothing.

And like I heard that a million times,

Like anytime something was always like the devil coming in sheep's clothing.

And,

You know,

We have to protect ourselves from the devil and we can't let anyone else affect our family.

And so it came this,

You know,

Obsession with like the family,

Just the four of us.

I have a younger brother and it was always the four of us.

No one knows what we're doing.

Don't tell your family all the projects that you're doing.

And so unfortunately,

My dad was enabling all of it.

He,

Anytime he tried to speak up,

He was shut down.

Anytime he tried to give input into how we were raised,

He was shut down.

Anytime he tried,

God forbid,

To challenge my mom in any way,

He was thrown down and,

You know,

And basically silenced.

And that was really challenging to watch.

You know,

I used to glorify that kind of behavior when I was a kid because I thought,

You know,

Woman empowerment,

Like wearing the pants.

This is all like really great.

Like,

You know,

This is this is like the example of,

You know,

Like a strong and confident woman.

And I didn't understand,

Like the emotional and mental impact that it was having on my dad.

And I had no idea that that he wasn't,

You know,

Like allowed to speak up.

So I felt like I didn't get to know my dad until like,

You know,

Within the last couple of years,

Really was when I,

You know,

Broke myself free from it and decided on my own terms to get to know my family better.

That was when things shifted.

But his role was more so the enabler because he didn't really have a choice.

And again,

It's really hard to admit that and talk about it.

But that is the truth.

Yeah.

My dad was.

My stepdad was an enabler.

You know,

Dr.

Carol McBride,

I'm not sure if you're familiar with her book.

Will I ever be free of you?

But she talks about an ark mom being the son and everyone else is a planet revolving around her.

And the enabling father is called one of the orbiters.

And that's very familiar to me,

As is is to you.

So where does your relationship stand with your mother now?

So I have not gone no contact.

We are still currently in contact.

I'm very grateful for the fact that I live many,

Many,

Many states away.

And I think this was something that you and I talked about on Found Family is that this.

Doesn't you know,

Unfortunately,

This this doesn't happen to many people.

But when when you are in a position where you can either move out or,

You know,

Your parents move away from you,

It helps a lot with that is very true.

I'm not proof of that.

Yeah.

So,

You know,

Although we are in contact,

I have learned to set boundaries.

I'm also very grateful,

I have to say,

For one of my older cousins who has really understood.

She's a speech therapist and like went to school for psychology.

So I know now that she saw signs very early on and was trying to,

You know.

I don't want to say protect me because,

You know,

That that I think she was trying to give me hints that I did a voice and I was allowed to make my own decisions,

Even though I didn't believe any of that when I was growing up.

Because when you're in when you're immersed in that kind of environment and when you're in the household,

That saying of like my house,

My rules is amplified tenfold when you're living with a narcissist.

Because,

Like,

Yes,

You're a kid.

Yes,

You still have rules like don't be out late,

You know,

Don't get into trouble,

Like all the things that,

You know,

Other parents say to their children for good reason because it's them trying to protect their kids.

But then there is a level of freedom and there is a level of,

You know,

If you can make mistakes,

Make them in the house.

My dad was a firm believer in that,

But again,

God forbid,

Like he could never tell us that because we weren't allowed to make mistakes and I wasn't allowed to not be perfect.

And so,

You know,

My house,

My rules to me meant you can't dress the way that you want to dress.

You can't be with the friends that you want to be with.

You can't eat the things that you want to eat.

You can't think the things that you want to think because I'm going to take control over all of those things.

But I'm going to do it in such a subliminal way that you're not even going to know that it's my voice.

You're going to think it's your voice and then you're just going to do it and comply.

And can I say,

Can I say,

Amen?

I know you still say amen to good things,

But I'm saying amen to that bitter truth.

Oh yeah,

It is absolute truth.

And it's just like,

You know,

Now when you are woke,

It's amazing how when you say that word,

It's like,

You know,

When you're sleeping,

Time goes by and you don't even notice like what's happening around you.

And that's really how I felt.

I felt like I was sleeping.

I didn't notice what was happening around me.

Now that I'm awake and I have all of my senses alive,

It's like,

I can't believe that I didn't see this,

But I was sleeping and I have to like forgive myself and be patient with myself and give myself that love knowing that there was no way that I could have ever seen this because it's like the perfect marketing and advertising strategy ever.

It's like a narcissist went to school for psychology and learned like every single trick in the book to be used for the wrong reason because the subliminal.

Thank you.

Like that's literally how it feels.

It's like all of like the subliminal messages were were like done under your nose in plain sight,

Broad daylight,

And you have no idea.

And you're just like following along.

And that's why,

You know,

People are typically called like,

You know,

Sheep like you're following the cattle.

And that's really what it is.

You're just kind of going through this motion and you're being swept away into it.

But the best thing that ever happened to me,

The best decision that I'm you know,

I will forever be grateful and proud of myself was moving to Brooklyn,

New York,

And,

You know,

Moving myself even further and further away.

And then when my parents moved even further south,

It made things easier.

So again,

Although we are still in contact,

My cousin has helped to kind of be the like the sound buffer or the like the soundboard,

Because there are times where she would actually reach out to my mom and say,

Hey,

You need to back off.

You're texting her every day asking her questions and still controlling her.

And she's an adult like you need to back off.

Wow.

And that my gosh,

Can I have a cousin like that?

Where can you buy one?

She's very vocal about things as well.

And I'm actually surprised that she kind of took on that,

You know,

Task on her own,

Because it's not like I said to her like,

Hey,

Can you help me out?

Like she would basically just be like,

You need to back off.

How nice is it to have to have someone have your back like that?

Amazing.

I mean,

Truly such a blessing because she was my soundboard when I didn't know that I needed one.

And,

You know,

She was also the person who encouraged me to establish boundaries because I didn't know how to create a boundary when when you have someone who is so forceful into your life and doesn't accept no for an answer.

I'm a very from birth.

Like you have to think about that.

And what you're saying is true,

But think about for you and for me from birth from birth.

Yeah,

The word no doesn't exist in her vocabulary when it came from me like a perfect example that I can share.

And I don't know if I had shared this in in our other episode,

But I,

I,

And this happened not even too long ago.

My boyfriend and I have been together for a little over a year and a half and we were,

We were just recently starting dating and we went to go visit.

It was the first time that we went to go visit his first time,

Mind you meeting my mom and she was telling me what I needed to change my outfit into to go out on a date from from morning to nighttime because apparently in Italy,

They don't have outfits that they wear at night from the daytime.

So it was like,

There was always an excuse.

She was always trying to like,

You know,

Insert something,

Whether it was like making me feel like I had to be in competition with like a friend who was doing something that she wanted me to do like her tactic of manipulation was always like,

Well,

Look,

This person was doing it.

So you have to do it,

But it was only the thing she wanted me to do.

So she'd be like,

Yeah,

And in Italy,

Everyone changes their outfits,

You know,

From from daytime to nighttime and I'm like,

You really think I care what people do in Italy and even if everybody,

You know,

Like the whole population of the country did that,

I don't care.

I'm wearing this out.

I don't care.

Like,

No,

I'm not changing.

And we ended up going to dinner.

I'm not laughing at you.

I'm laughing with you.

Oh,

My God.

It gets worse.

Just wait.

So we get to dinner and we're having a very nice evening.

I'm texting,

You know,

As a group chat,

Me and my dad and my mom,

And we're group chatting and we specifically said in the group chat,

You and dad are going to meet up with us for dessert because they told,

You know,

My mom said like,

Oh,

Yeah,

We're not we're gonna be healthy and like have something from home like we don't want to go and eat out.

So we'll meet up for we'll meet up afterwards for like a light thing or drinks or whatever.

So like,

Okay,

Great,

Fine.

Like we're gonna have we're gonna have dinner.

We'll meet you guys after fine.

Time goes by.

And it's actually funny because my boyfriend was like,

Making a joke.

And he was like,

Oh,

Look,

Your mom's here.

And I whipped around.

And I looked back at him and he was laughing.

And he was like,

I'm just kidding.

And I was like,

Don't joke because she would do something like that.

And he was like,

No way,

Not even 10 minutes later,

She shows up on my date with my boyfriend at dinner with a shirt that she wanted me to change into and literally stood there in front like making a scene because that's what she was doing as well making a scene and told me that I had to go to the bathroom and change my shirt.

And I looked at her with like,

Like a deer in headlights.

I was like,

Am I hallucinating?

Is this a joke again?

Like,

Is a mile is this like a mirage because he just cracked a joke and like she,

You know,

And I was like,

I cannot believe that this just happened.

And like,

I would have otherwise complied.

Because,

Again,

Like anytime I would be like,

No,

Go away,

Like she would insert herself.

So when I was again growing up and my friends be like,

Lizzie,

You're such a pushover.

Why do you not just tell your mom to back off?

I'm like,

You don't get it.

There is no such thing.

I can't tell her to back off because if I even try,

She does the thing that I don't want her to do anyway.

So like,

It's a really cute fairy tale to be thinking that like I have control,

But I don't.

So I'm sitting there and I'm like,

The only way to get her out of my face is to take the stupid shirt and go into the bathroom and change.

And I would have otherwise done that otherwise she wouldn't have left.

And I literally said to her and I was like,

No,

I'm not changing.

Like,

You need to leave.

We said we were meeting up later.

And she was like,

No,

We didn't.

You said that you could join us for dinner.

And I was like,

Thank God that I had the text to go back to.

But that's also like,

I've been trying to breadcrumb things.

Because the other thing that would really,

Really get me was that every time she would do or say something,

If I didn't write it down,

I would forget.

Because again,

It was like,

I'm complying and I would just,

You know,

Whatever and forget about it.

And then she would come back and be like,

Oh,

I actually said this.

And then she would make me question myself.

So I was constantly doubting myself because even in that moment,

I was 1 million percent sure that she told me,

I will meet you after dinner.

But in that moment,

She was like,

You said that you were gonna be okay with you know,

We told you we were gonna come meet you at dinner.

And for a second,

I was like,

Oh,

Yeah,

Like,

She I did say that.

And you know,

And it's just like,

That was a cycle.

So I put my foot down.

I was like,

No,

I have it in the text.

You said that you were meeting us later.

And no,

I'm not changing.

I already told you that.

And then she turns to my boyfriend.

She's like,

She should change.

Don't you think she should change?

Don't you think she would look better in the shirt?

And he was like,

No,

I think she looks perfectly fine the way she is.

And it was like,

Only after he said something that she backed off.

So I don't know what would have happened if he would have been like,

Oh,

Maybe you should change like,

I had warned him,

You wouldn't be boyfriend or girlfriend.

I would have cracked him in the head with a pasta.

No,

I'm kidding.

I'm kidding.

I'm kidding.

But,

You know,

Sadly,

I mean,

That's an unbelievable story.

And sadly,

Painfully common.

Yeah.

God bless and jeez,

God.

They know and they know they never change every story.

Video every book I read every podcast I download.

It's the same thing.

Same awful thing.

Yeah,

So I don't mean it to sound it like,

You know,

Like boring mundane meaning it's the same pattern,

And it's a horror right.

It's the same pattern.

Exactly.

So can you tell us what you led you to create the found family podcast?

Yeah,

And I think that what we just shared is like the perfect segue into this.

Yep.

So having grown up in this type of household,

You know,

You don't we don't choose who our family is we are born into the families that we were born into.

And I felt this unbelievable disconnect again from her,

From my dad,

From my brother,

Because,

Again,

There was a lot of competition between the two of us.

I was the golden child and now learning more about the golden child,

I realize,

Again,

How to a T that is me.

And so growing up in a family where I didn't feel like I was part of a family,

I found family outside of my blood family.

And so that's what inspired me to call the podcast found family podcast,

Because I truly found family with you with people I've connected with on Twitter with people I've connected with on other social media platforms.

And even in my personal life,

The more open and vulnerable that I am about my story,

I'm feeling this beautiful connection with other people on this planet who are not blood family who I feel are a part of my family.

And so the mission that I have for found family podcast is to connect women with women who are living with a mental illness.

And the key here is to help them feel understood,

Accepted and assured that they're not alone,

Because I grew up feeling so alone and thinking that all the things I was going through was just me again.

I had friends and other family members who were seriously are literally the same blood as me not going through the same things as me and I felt so so alone.

And so through educational and empowering soul chats found family podcast is really highlighting the resilience of these women exemplifying how recovery is possible.

Fantastic.

And since I'm now your found family,

I want you to be my cousin and text my mother to leave me alone.

I honestly would.

What do you charge?

If that's something that would help,

Because in the same way that my cousin and my boyfriend were like that,

You know,

The soundboard,

Sometimes it seems like,

You know,

Because God,

You know this too.

If a narcissist feels like they're being attacked and not love and adored.

Oftentimes they'll make changes,

Not because they think that they should,

But because they don't want to be hated or disliked or talked about,

You know,

Like sometimes my mom would make decisions based off of the way that other people were making her feel like,

Oh,

Keeping up with the Jones that you know.

So if it helps.

Sure.

I can send a message and then the same way that my cousin was acting for me and I get it,

You know,

So,

Well I love the way your story.

And the way you presented articulates a couple things is the way a narcissistic mother has to scan minute by minute,

Day,

Hour by hour,

Day by day,

Things,

Sources of adoration and worship,

Also called narc supply.

And at the same time these daughters of these narc mothers scan minute by minute,

Day by day,

Hour by hour,

Threats and attacks.

So,

It's.

We're never turned.

She's never turned off,

And we're never turned off.

Well,

It's an,

It's an ugly heartening and dysfunctional cycle that we're both.

And somebody's got to jump off that crazy train,

And it might be you and me Lizzie.

So I want to add on the found family podcast Lizzie calls everything a soul chat,

Which is fantastic,

And I have every intention of stealing from you and not getting credit.

I'm not know soul chat so what are your short term and long term goals with found family and your soul chats.

Love that question and thank you so much for your,

For your feedback.

So,

The reason why,

First and foremost,

I call them soul chats is because I love deep diving with people and I think that,

Especially in a digital space,

Especially in a digital world and you know when we're when we're living our lives in our phones and through emails and through instant messaging and emojis and all of these things,

It's so challenging to really connect human to human and get past that surface of soul.

And I feel,

Especially having grown up with a narcissistic parent that a lot of the things that I was taught were to stay on the surface,

Not to get vulnerable not to dive deeper.

But I'm talking to you heart to heart,

And on found family podcast,

We're connecting soul to soul,

It is truly like a namaste moment where it's like my soul is recognizing acknowledging honoring loving your soul,

And we're talking about things on a very personal and personal level,

Being open and vulnerable.

And so,

You know,

The long term goals of the soul chat is to continue expanding to invite more people into the community to really feel safe and free to be their authentic self as as children of narcissists and I've suffered from an identity crisis,

And I really want to,

You know,

Hold hands with my sisters and and create this community of women who are resilient who show up every day regardless of the programming that was done to us or you know what we're what we're really beaten down with like to hide ourselves and not to show our colors and I really want people to experience that feeling of loving their own identity and really I want to create a movement towards the you know like a self love movement,

And you know that's one of the things that I've been really proud of and I really want to share the,

The hashtag that I've been kind of tacking on to certain tweets and things about sound family podcast is hashtag we overcome together,

Because what I've also found is that through being empowered and hearing people's stories is also showing me more about my story it's it's kind of like,

You know,

Taking a flashlight and and being able to bring more light on things that maybe I didn't see before things I didn't think about before.

And if we're all able to learn more about ourselves and discover new things and connect with others,

You know,

We really do come to see that we are going through the same things and and feeling the same ways.

And if we're able to really hold hands and create this movement towards self love.

I would love for,

You know,

I think what what the me to movement was just like so beautiful so to be able to create something like that,

Towards,

You know,

Really experiencing self love like loving your own identity.

I,

That's really what I want to do and the second part of that is extending invitations to therapists and you know more mental health professionals to get more understanding of,

You know,

Our brains and how they work the psychology and how they're using different modalities everyone has different techniques everyone learn differently.

And so I think that for found family podcast to be a place where so many different mental health specialists can sort of come in and share what works for them.

And it will help someone in some way because if you're learning is more visual and my learning is more,

You know,

Hearing things like will all find our own techniques and modalities and coping mechanisms and a healthy way to really empower us for the future and in our own ways and then you can sort of create your own style from that.

Fantastic.

I think it's a fabulous idea and our ideas concept I think everybody.

I'm going to put a link to your podcast in our episode notes because I think it's an amazing thing and I only hope it continues to grow and everyone here is your message.

And,

Oh,

And you need to change your shirt.

There we go.

No,

I'm not changing my show.

So,

Lizzie,

You were fantastic.

I am so thrilled you set aside time to talk,

And I definitely want to have you back on as long as you know my jokes didn't offend you.

Thank you so much and thank you for you and what you're doing with your podcast,

And for giving me the space and,

And really creating this this beautiful environment to be vulnerable and to share my story and to feel truly heard is such a blessing and I'm forever grateful for for you and what you're doing through your books and everything else so I'm really grateful thank you so much.

You're welcome and if there's anything else that we can do to support you.

Definitely let us know.

Thank you.

Likewise,

It goes both ways I'm here to support you too.

All right,

Have a great day everyone Thank you Lizzie.

Thank you,

Kelly.

Have a great day everyone.

All the children running free cried so hard for you and me,

Searching far searching why the answer very deep inside.

We hit rock bottom,

Tired of being found a better way to live with nothing left to lose.

Take my weary hand.

Come with me to an honest land.

No need to finish what they started.

Until they departed until they departed

Reviews

Fantastic podcast, truly eye-opening. Has shone light on things from my past that I hadn’t realised. Thank you so much 💖

I could write a book In response to this podcast but I’ll keep it short. I’ve been forthcoming on all your podcasts about my life from early childhood until recently around age 67.

Kudos to Lisy for waking up at age 27! I can only imagine how different my life could have been if I’d woken up 40 years ago.

I had a conversation with my 92 year old Dad yesterday on a outing. I seldom talk to him about mama because he always makes excuses for her behavior. ENABLER he is! After a few questions I shared with him that there was nothing that he or I did that made mama like she is but he still believes her because she has pounded that into him nearly 70 years! It’s so sad but he will always be her victim but I am victorious finally. I have my toolkit and I am not afraid to use it!!! No more bags of shit for me!

Thank you to all you ladies and your contributions to help each of us not feel so alone. 😘🙏🏻💪