Generally Stonewalling Jacksonass (Season 1)

Stonewalling is a term that was developed by psychologist Dr. John Gottman, who specializes in relationship research and therapy. Stonewalling is when a person withdraws from a conversation or discussion and refuses to acknowledge you or your efforts to discuss anything, ignore your requests, respond with dismissive, invalidating replies or giving infuriatingly vague responses. Parents who are controlling, combative and dismissive use stonewalling as a way of marginalizing a child.

Transcript

["iferous and glorious",

SouthernYou've got the hammer I'm just another nail The past is closing in And I've believed your lies My soul is not for sale This is not a game to win Gonna knock it down for WhPad Welcome.

Hello.

The Stuck Stops here is back again.

I'm LW Noly.

I'm Tammy Atman and I am not a therapist.

Are you?

I am not a therapist nor am I a life coach.

Me either.

We're just two women who know what we know.

We want to talk about it and share it with you,

Our wonderful listeners.

You know what I am?

I am recovering stonewalling jackass is what I am.

Okay.

Explain that.

Stonewalling jackasses.

Welcome.

So stonewalling,

There's a couple of different history on that word.

One is General Stonewall Jackson was a guy who went to battle,

I think in the Civil War.

If I'm wrong,

The historians can email me.

This is not a history lesson.

Exactly.

It's more of a history lesson.

Bad word.

So I think he was one that was able to maintain a very stoic demeanor and a stoic face no matter how bloody the battle was.

So that's part of the history that I've uncovered.

The medical history is stonewalling is a term developed by psychologist Dr.

John Gottman and he specializes in relationship research and therapy.

Stonewalling is when a person withdraws from a conversation or discussion and refuses to acknowledge you or your efforts to discuss anything.

And why would a person do that?

Great question.

They generally because you're flooded with emotions and you just can't handle it,

So you shut down.

Is it like a form of self-protection?

Part of it's self-protection,

It's part of it's avoidance,

And part of it is a denial.

I don't want to deal with what's happening.

So parents who are typically controlling,

Combative,

Dismissive,

Or narcissistic often use stonewalling as a way of marginalizing,

Ignoring,

And dismissing a child.

What ends up being communicated,

As was communicated to me,

Is that what the child thinks,

Wants,

Expresses is unimportant and irrelevant.

So it basically makes the child feel like they don't matter,

Like they're worthless.

100%,

These confusing and frustrating messages become internalized,

As they did with me,

And they get carried over into adulthood as a negative belief system about yourself.

So what happens to an adult who's been stonewalled by a parent?

I will speak for myself.

I stonewalled in terms of arguments.

I would not have them.

I would shut down.

I was afraid of my own rage and pain,

So that is one way to avoid dealing with it and deny that anything is triggering that.

So when you have rage or pain,

And you want to avoid rage and pain,

Shutting down anything that causes that and pretending it doesn't exist is one way to pretend that you're not feeling that rage and pain.

Is that pure denial?

100% denial.

Now coming from my standpoint,

I have never been a stonewaller.

I didn't grow up with parents who stonewalled,

But I have experienced stonewalling from the other side,

And it is pretty terrible.

It makes you feel like you are the most unimportant person in the world.

And an additional message that's received is that you're crazy for having these emotions and these feelings in the first place.

It's so subtle.

Isn't it?

It's very subtle because the person doesn't say anything.

They don't attack you.

They just shut down.

And then you don't know.

What's going on?

Why won't they talk?

Why won't they say anything?

And many people who are victims of it,

Like me,

They go on to use it as a destructive arguing technique when they get older,

Which is what I did.

It wasn't right,

And it was pretty terrible.

One of the ways that I was able to slowly get rid of it was I wouldn't use that with my children.

And it wasn't anything conscious.

It was unconscious that,

Well,

What can I do to make them feel validated?

But I would use stonewalling in every other aspect of my relationships.

Public,

Professional,

Husband,

Everything else outside of my children,

I would use it.

And it was not right.

Did anyone ever call you on it and say,

Hey,

Why are you shutting down?

Or why did you suddenly become so indifferent?

Did anyone ever call you on it?

Well,

My husband certainly would.

And actually,

I would eventually,

That's one thing that was different about me and my parents.

I would eventually come around.

It would just take a while.

So that was the upside.

But my mom,

My stepdad,

And my dad,

They don't come around.

None of them have coping skills.

And they're all filled with rage and can't deal with it.

And they want to deny everything.

And so I always felt like having the rage and anger,

There was something wrong with me for having it.

And that would just get me into a whole cycle of trying to fix something outside of myself to soothe it.

So years ago,

Before you made all these great discoveries and revelations,

Were you able to get through a day without feeling these kinds of feelings?

Never.

I would say when things would go my way,

Or I achieved something or want something,

I would have,

I would say I had bad days with good moments.

That's really what my life was.

My kids,

You get a lot of joy from your children,

As I did.

And that definitely would distract me from a lot of what was going on.

It didn't cure.

It distracted.

It's still there.

It's amazing you were able to put a cork in it for the children to stop that stonewalling when it came to your kids.

I don't know whether pat myself on the back or slap myself in the face.

I really don't have a good answer for that one.

But thank you for the compliment.

Can we talk about types of stonewalling?

Yes.

We're going to take a short break so you can listen to this beautiful song that Tammi and I wrote together.

It's called Inside Out,

We'll be right back.

What's this all about?

Gonna knock it down From the inside out Gonna crawl away from all the shame and doubt I'm waking up And breaking free I'm not who you forced me to be The world is your top You know how to spin it I'm not taking it for another minute Gonna knock it down From the inside out Gonna knock it down from the inside out Today on the Stuck Stops here,

We're talking about Stonewalling.

We were just about to talk about the types of Stonewalling.

Go ahead,

Tammy.

So the first type is silence,

The silent treatment.

And that is very isolating.

So as a child,

Feeling isolated felt terrible and fearful.

So I never knew how to self-soothe.

So I would do,

Again,

I'd get addicted to all these other things that would make me feel less isolated.

You know the silent treatment is kind of like a form of bullying.

It is.

Do you remember being in school and everybody's like,

Let's all be quiet and not talk to this person.

And that's really a form of bullying.

Absolutely.

And it's horrible.

Only now I think it's probably not responding to texts and not responding,

Liking Snapchat.

That's a form of silence.

That's true,

Actually.

It's true.

So that sends a message.

You better like my Snapchat.

I don't even know what that is.

I don't have a Snapchat.

Neither do I.

I do.

I'm just embarrassed to use it.

It's like TikTok.

I have no idea.

I go on there.

I don't know.

I'm too old for that.

I hear Tom Brady has a TikTok.

What the hell is that?

It's a social media thing.

I don't know.

Is that anything to do with walk around the clock?

No.

Okay.

Okay.

Now you're really dating yourself.

All right,

I'm old.

We're not that old.

All right.

I'm sorry.

I take it back.

I'm really young.

Silent treatment.

I have snap face.

One word answers is another one.

You know,

Yes,

No,

A shrug.

That's indifference.

I don't care.

That's saying I don't care.

That makes you feel empty.

So again,

The theme of isolation,

Loneliness,

Emptiness.

Yeah.

And the other,

And I think this is,

You know,

The third one.

There's more,

But I only talk about the ones that I've experienced.

Criticism doesn't affect them.

So people who Stonewall deny what's happening in front of them.

So even if you were able to articulate that they're hurting you,

They will still act like they don't care.

They change the subject.

And they can't face what's going on.

So when they can't cope and they build a wall between you and them,

And I learned to build walls because that's all I knew.

So on a medical note,

The silent treatment and the Stonewalling can affect the brain.

So there's new research from U Cal Berkeley in Northwestern.

Northwestern,

That the Stonewalling is a form of ostracizing,

Which will activate the same part of the brain that detects physical pain.

Wow.

Isn't that incredible?

Yeah.

So when someone Stonewalls you,

It can physically hurt.

It hurts.

And it also hurts the Stonewaller.

So you're saying that the person who Stonewalls is also suffering.

Correct.

Yep.

So this is on this new research.

All you Stonewallers out there,

There's no power in it.

Don't do it.

Like people who fly off into outbursts of rage are more easily,

The study of greater risk of developing chest pain,

High blood pressure,

And other cardiovascular problems.

Those who are victims of Stonewalling develop a lot of back pain,

Stiff necks,

And constant muscle tension.

Wow.

So this is,

You know,

Researchers have known that chronic negative emotions are associated with negative health outcomes.

But this particular study dug a little deeper to find that specific emotions are linked to specific health problems.

So continuing on medical basics,

When you have an emotionally stressful experience,

It registers in our nervous system.

The body saves the snapshot of the experience.

It's frozen in time.

It also records and remembers the feeling that you felt.

It also.

.

.

So it's like a muscle memory.

Absolutely.

Wow.

Gives you a negative gut belief as well as an uncomfortable body sensation.

So this big file sits in your nervous system collecting dust.

If nothing else ever happened,

Then it will just sit there and have no effect.

But if more events happen throughout your life that hold similar feelings and causes the similar reactions,

That file actually gets bigger and bigger.

And the bigger that file gets,

The more it affects your life and the more symptoms and the more frequent.

Wow.

So from a very basic.

.

.

And again,

I'm going to put the link to the website that talks about this.

Again,

Dr.

John Gottman.

Yeah,

Put that in the show notes.

So I will.

So now we can tie that into high functioning depression and high functioning anxiety.

What is high functioning depression and anxiety?

So the high functioning depression is you go about your day,

You still accomplish things that you need to accomplish.

You still perform in a socially acceptable way and a professionally acceptable way.

Here's what's going on that people don't see.

Dissociation and experiencing no joy.

Relentlessly critical of yourself and others.

Constant self-doubt and constant inner turmoil.

So you are at war inside,

Even though it's not showing because you got up to go to work,

You did everything you were supposed to do.

Diminished energy,

Excessive anger,

Guilt and shame.

Guilt over the past,

Shame and worry over the future,

Perfectionism.

You know,

Working past your limits in any capacity to overcompensate for that.

It's like you're driving at full speed towards a brick wall.

That's one way to put it.

I'm so good with the analogy.

You are.

It also is like gas break,

Gas break,

Gas break,

Gas break.

So you're accelerating,

You're breaking,

You're celebrating,

You're breaking.

It's nobody.

So is it like every three steps forward,

You take two steps back?

I would have to say on my based on my experience,

It was two steps forward,

Three steps back.

Wow.

I'm not moving forward.

How can you move forward?

You can't.

You don't.

You reach,

You either live with that chronic misery that's not quite at rock bottom and you'd spend the rest of your life like that.

Or it reaches a point like with me where it's rock bottom where something had to change.

Right.

We all know people like that too who have gone through what you're talking about,

Like kind of like,

What do we call it,

Negative pattern.

Emotional neglect and emotional abuse.

Negative pattern,

Like you just can't get out of your own way.

And they stay like that.

And I talk to people all the time.

And I listen to people all the time.

It doesn't matter if I'm at the supermarket,

At yoga class,

Or at work,

Or at a party,

A house,

Somebody's house,

A party.

It's seeping out like lava on a lot of these people that they're all these un-dealt with emotional problems that they're having.

And it just seeps out and it's misdirected.

And I would have been a willing participant in all that years ago.

Now what about the high functioning anxiety?

Great question.

So here's positive characteristics of high functioning anxiety.

Outgoing,

Proactive,

Organized,

High achieving,

Detail oriented,

Active,

Helpful,

And loyal in relationships.

On paper it sounds pretty good.

It was.

And I was all of those things.

Now.

The bad stuff.

Wait,

Did Beethoven just arrive?

That was a bad Beethoven.

That was a Haytoven.

That's okay.

He was deaf anyway.

I've heard it.

So negative characteristics.

People pleaser,

Nervous habits,

Overthinking,

Constant need for reassurance,

Avoiding eye contact,

Dwelling on the negative,

Overloaded schedule because you have an inability to say no,

You're a stoic,

Unemotional,

Cold,

Completely unable to enjoy the moment,

Intimidated by the future and expecting the worst,

Comparing yourself to others.

And I think that is quite a list.

And I was all of those things.

Wow.

You were all those things?

I was all those things.

I know.

Exhausting.

Actually,

You know,

All those,

You know,

All that lava came to the surface for me.

And sometimes,

You know,

Not every volcano blows,

You know.

I was one that did.

So you become very skilled at presenting a phony self,

A false self to the world because you never really show anyone what's really going on,

Which is,

Again,

Me,

Me,

Me,

Me,

Me,

Me,

Me,

Me,

Me.

And you compartmentalize,

You bottle up inside and,

Ah,

You know,

I'll deal with it later.

And later never comes.

Right.

And then one day you just explode?

Some.

Break down?

Some people do,

You know.

Nervous breakdown?

You know,

That's probably what I could have called it.

But that's,

You know,

Based on my research,

That's really an outdated term.

A better term is total collapse.

And that's really what it is.

And not everyone will total collapse.

They won't.

They just.

They'll just keep functioning like that?

They will keep functioning like that and pass it on to their children and have strained relationships.

And they will,

Everything I just listed,

They will live like that for the rest of their lives.

Wow.

They don't know that they have a choice.

So back,

You know,

I'm using one example of stonewalling to connect that to how I had high functioning anxiety and high functioning depression.

And there's a million different behaviors,

Emotionally disturbing behaviors that parents will dish out that will lead to that.

I'm just discussing one today.

But on podcast 17,

18,

19,

20,

Right up through 199,

We're going to cover all the other million.

Yes,

Of course.

Wouldn't it be great if we could just rewind our lives and just kind of replay those sections,

You know,

Replay those sections with parents who didn't Stonewall or who didn't make us feel codependent and who didn't screw us up like that?

If we could just kind of heal the inner child,

I guess would be the concept.

It would be nice.

Because,

You know,

One way to do it is to you have to get out of that denial.

You know,

If your parents put a wall between you,

You put a wall between you.

Right.

So unless you are I get it comes down to awareness.

And we're definitely going to do 150 podcasts on awareness.

Awareness is great.

And what that actually means.

You have to at some point in order to heal,

Realize that the way I'm operating isn't working.

I say this all the time.

I blamed everybody else.

I blamed the situations I was in.

I was I blamed when things didn't work out.

It was always always point of pointing the finger,

Just like a Charlie's Angel gun.

And I was aiming at everybody but me.

How do you know how to turn inward,

Though?

Like if you're in denial or you grew up really kind of protecting your psyche because you've been through all this.

How do you know when it's time to turn inward and go,

Wait a minute,

This is me now.

I need to look at myself.

You either hurt so much that you want to or you hit such a low point in your life that you have to.

Only two ways.

Wow.

And with that we'll be right back.

To hear what this song about going to knock it down from the inside out.

Going to crawl away from all the shame and doubt.

Let's talk about this song inside out.

Going to knock it down from the inside out.

What are we talking about?

Great question.

So knocking it down,

We talk about walls a lot.

Walls between our parents and ourselves.

Walls between the people we care about.

Walls between ourselves.

So knocking down those walls,

Particularly and most importantly the one between you and yourself,

Is really the motivation for the song.

And if you look at some of the lines,

You've got the hammer,

I'm just another nail.

If you think about what these emotionally disturbed parents do to their children because it was what was done to them.

That's what it feels like.

That's what it feels like.

That's just getting clobbered all the time.

And it's a lie.

And that's where I talk about that.

And you hear a lot about soul searching and connecting with yourself and your inner child.

And a lot of times it's hippy dippy dippy doo interpretation of that.

Which is unfortunate because it really isn't.

And the soul is not for sale in that song is,

You know,

You're taking your experience,

Your horrible experience,

And you're shoving it inside me so I can no longer have a soul.

You don't have one,

I don't have one,

And it just keeps going.

So that's where some of those,

You know,

Lines,

Excuse me,

Lyrics come in.

And that's part of the reason why I mean I happen to love words and music.

But sometimes when we're talking,

You know,

There's 20 million podcasts out there,

There's 20 million people,

You know,

Speaking there's,

You know,

All these gurus and everyone's got,

You know,

Something to say and the magic key and,

And the,

You know,

That special phrase that's going to make you wake up and see and doesn't work like that.

It's not a thing that takes work it's a process so I try to,

You know,

We're talking about it.

We're joking about it too,

As a way to get the message through humor,

Get the message through,

You know,

Facts,

You know,

Faxes.

They work for me,

You know,

And then through music if you know you get a song in your head.

Well if you have a song that's telling you to heal and move forward in different ways.

You know,

You think about babies,

You know,

They don't learn how to dance,

But you give a,

You know,

You turn on music for two year old,

How do they know how to do that.

It's amazing,

Instinctually they just move.

They might.

Well that's what I'm hoping with music.

Right,

You know what drives me crazy though is when children are listening to music and then teachers are like everybody clap your hands clap along,

And they don't clap in time,

Causes them to not listen.

You ever notice that like they're clapping and they're not really listening.

That drives me crazy like don't clap along.

I'd rather you listen.

That's probably true.

That's,

That's probably mindless it's mindless unless you want to really feel the rhythm but if you're not really the rhythm clapping to music is better than having the clap.

So that is a positive spin on it.

That's true.

Okay.

What narcissists,

Controllers and manipulators do is,

You know,

Everything is for them to control or if you look at your parents as,

Let's say your parents are narcissists,

Which you say yours are.

And kind of see where they might have come from kind of understand their childhood and how difficult it must have been for them that they continue this cycle of dysfunction.

And when they talk about forgiveness.

That's a,

That's a very tossed around term,

As it applies to forgiving your parents from mistreating you forgiveness means accepting that they didn't know better.

And forgiving yourself for not having the wisdom to cope better,

Which takes a long time.

You know what I don't like the idea of forgiveness in that sense where you're Oh well,

You know I forgive you for treating me like shit like that's not you're right,

It's forgiving yourself and understanding where that came from that can help you move on and heal.

Some people don't deserve to be forgiven.

Right,

So if you.

If you are still angry and enraged,

Their,

Their failures,

Their misery still controlling you.

So that's where the.

I'm going to talk about this another episode,

The low contact slash gray rock method comes in,

Is where you can spend a controllable amount of time,

Or an amount of time that works for you in their presence,

Without reacting to anything that they do.

And that's what happens if what happens if you.

Let's say you have this guilt,

Where you feel like you have to speak to your mother,

Let's say a few times a week.

Yeah,

Right.

How do you.

You have to you just make that call right you know how do you deal with that.

So if you have to make the call,

Plan it out in your head and prepare yourself for whatever verbal aggression and verbal abuse comes your way.

Oh,

I can see this might not be a good time you sound irritated Can we talk when you're not so upset.

So,

Okay,

That's one way to be prepared.

Be on your guard let's say,

Yes.

Everything is about,

You know,

Are you responding,

Or are you reacting,

And that's,

You know,

God will be doing podcasts on dead.

Let's hope that's responding versus reacting responding is,

You know,

I bought you that necklace How come you never wear it,

I do wear,

Well I don't see it in the pictures on Facebook.

Oh,

All right,

I'll make sure we're more often.

How can she respond,

How you've shut it down.

Right,

It's true.

And always speak,

So you don't want to be like you know shove it up.

Let me get back to us and shove it up your ass you could say oh my,

Oh I thought it was a necklace I didn't realize it was a rope.

We could go that road to hang myself.

So,

You know,

It's you control by not reacting,

You know,

Responding,

And always speaking from the eye.

So,

If you think about,

And we're going to get into styles of communication.

At another podcast.

I've said that like 20 times.

So much,

So much fodder for exactly styles of communication if you can always speak from the eye.

I'll say you never you right why are you making me feel guilty I'm not making you feel guilty Yes you are I just asked why you wearing it you're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

Now you're in that trap right no trap comes a fight.

So if you speak from the eye.

Oh okay I'll wear it more often and makes them happy shuts them up,

And you feel great.

You've.

So,

And if they start insulting you.

And there are people who are vicious.

You say,

Oh,

You know I don't really want to be talked to that way.

I'd rather,

You know,

Talk to you.

When we can speak like adults and there's no name calling.

Now how do you respond to somebody when they're stonewalling you.

You.

It's a great question.

You have to give them the space that they need.

And now this is when we're adults and it's just a child you have no idea what to do as an adult,

Whether it's your friends or your spouse or you give them the time they need and say okay I understand you don't want to deal with this right now.

I will check in with you on Thursday to see if you want to talk about it.

You check in with them on Thursday.

They still don't want to talk about it.

Oh,

Okay still not ready.

We'll check I'll check in with you on Monday.

That's very patient What if it's someone you live with.

Oh,

Then you still need to do it you can give it a 24 hour brief.

I found from my experience that I actually like to call it to that person's attention and say you know what you're doing right now you've put up a wall,

You've shut me out,

But you've said you,

Even though you are right,

It doesn't matter.

So,

The minute you say you people who Stonewall are going to become defensive.

So what do I say I feel say,

Are you going.

I'd like to have an adult discussion that involves more than one word answers when is a good time to do that.

That's pretty good.

So,

Open ended questions and never and always start with I.

Generally is going to get better results.

Not always.

But I'm going to put the actual the link to that.

Dr.

John Gottman website,

Because he's a relationship expert,

And he dives so deeply into solving these communication relationship problems,

You know,

And so many good ideas on it.

That's great.

There are so many great resources on the internet,

Something that we didn't have growing up,

You know,

Like the the ability to just Google search.

What do I do when someone stonewalling me or they didn't even have the term toxic parents still 1989 right didn't even exist.

Wow.

Although it existed,

They just have the term.

That's true.

Let me rephrase that.

I remember.

Now,

Right now we're dating ourselves.

I was born in 1989.

Remember,

Right.

Yeah,

Right.

I just remember the,

I think Taylor Swift was born in 1980.

Thanks.

I remember the term codependency,

And that was something that became.

I became aware of later on in life,

And could not understand why I couldn't move forward in life,

And I realized there was this codependent relationship in my life that I needed to deal with.

And once I started to deal with that.

Things start to get better.

And,

But you chose to.

I had to.

I had to because I kept hitting a wall.

You reached a point we talked earlier about something that that I really believe in and I believe that when you are doing what you are meant to be doing in life.

It's like a square peg in a square hole,

It just fits.

It just works.

And you know sometimes we find ourselves banging our heads against the wall,

And it's not working,

And that's when it's time to reevaluate and say why is this not working,

And kind of maybe take a different path,

Failing at something you love is not failing.

And that's so it but if you don't know if you have a wall between yourself,

You know,

And a wall between your parents and a wall,

I mean you have this wall,

You won't know what you love.

It's true.

I find that I have these revelations in life and when things work,

No matter what age no matter where you're at in life when things work.

Suddenly it's like a learning experience I go,

Oh,

Oh no I get what I was supposed to do,

I learned the lesson I learned the moral,

Like an Aesop's fable.

I learned the moral of why I was supposed to do that.

But you know,

I could be up till then banging my head against the wall trying to make something fit or work,

And it's not working.

There's,

You know,

There's forcing it and then there's authentic passion.

And if it goes back to,

If you are not in touch with your inner child,

Yes do the hippie dance I hear you kumbaya I got it.

But the reality is the truth is if you're not,

You will not know what you love to do,

Or you will not know you know who you want to be,

And everything is forced.

Yeah.

And I'm living proof of that.

And as you're slowly discovering more about yourself and who you want to be.

What's happening.

I get get.

I have clarity.

So you don't.

I used to make decisions out of emotion.

Even though I was squashing that emotion down.

If something upset me I would shut down,

Walk away from it.

You know,

Not deal with it,

But that might actually been something that was good for me.

If,

Or then sometimes the rage would come out in all the wrong ways,

And the wrong people at the wrong time,

Because you can only,

You know,

You can't keep love inside the volcano forever.

Right.

So,

When it's authentic.

And it's really true to you.

It's never forced.

It's,

You know,

You'll know that you generally,

You know,

Don't know what you want to be.

You know,

You want to be strong in this situation,

You know,

At a party,

The other day,

And this woman.

She was around,

You know my age and just got divorced after 31 years I didn't know I just met her.

Comes,

You know we're talking and I hate men.

I just got divorced after 31 years been cheating on me I hate man I hate man.

I really didn't know what to do with that.

What do I say,

What do I say because that's like,

You walk away,

She is having a visceral rage reaction to probably some very unfair things that happened to her.

What's probably you know what's probably,

You know,

Happening is you know she hates herself for probably making this decision,

You know,

And or hating herself for staying so long,

But it's so much easier to point the finger.

Yes,

You know,

He cheated on me three four times.

The question is what made her seek out a guy like that,

You know,

And maybe she was too young and you know,

You said you got married at 21 Okay,

She was too young.

I was like so I said to her what are your,

You know,

What do you like to do now.

I like the beach.

I said great.

She likes the beach.

She likes the beach I was like oh well they have all these,

You know,

Meetup groups where,

You know,

People tour beaches and,

You know,

There's all kinds of,

You know,

Different things and shouldn't listen to me.

She just went on about,

You know,

Where she needs to be and looking for someone to just agree with her.

Right,

Right.

And I was like okay,

I'll agree with you.

And I just nod my head,

You know,

Well,

Venom is coming out of your face.

I think of venom what got into my wine.

I hope I don't catch it.

I don't know venom.

So hope you walked away from that.

Yeah,

After a few minutes I'm like okay you know time to go bang my head against the wall.

It sounds like it.

I went up to my husband I said I hate you why I don't know it's contagious.

And he told me that men suck so.

And then I did a sit up on the lounge chair.

That's why your abs look so good.

Not anymore.

We'll talk about that later.

So I guess it's time for us to wrap up this episode of the Stuck Stops here.

We have been talking about stonewalling,

And we're going to put some of the resources in the show notes so you can learn more about whether you're the Stonewaller or the Stonewallee.

And both of them suck.

Yes,

They sure do.

Because you're talking to two,

You're listening to two people right now.

One is,

Was the Stonewaller and one was the Stonewallee in different situations,

And really,

Two very difficult situations to be in so hopefully you'll do the work and explore what you need to explore to heal from these kinds of things.

And what else shall we say.

I'm not having this conversation right now.

You can't deny it.

That was stonewalling.

Beautiful.

And we will see you and speak to you next time.

You've got the hammer.

Just another day.

The past is closing in.

So it's not for sale.

This is not a game to win.

It's time to hear what's this.

From the inside.

Gonna crawl away from all the shame and doubt.

I'm waking up and breaking free.

I'm not who you forced me to be.

This is your time.

You know how to spin it.

I'm not taking it for another minute.

Gonna knock it down from the inside out.

It's time to hear what's this all about.

Gonna knock it down from the inside out.

Gonna crawl away from all the shame and doubt.

Oh yeah.

Don't want to walk on a wire.

Don't want to kneel at your throne.

Sick of being on fire.

I want you to leave me alone.

Gonna knock it down from the inside out.

It's time to hear what's this all about.

You've got the hammer.

Just another day.

The past is closing in.

I believe your lies.

So it's not for sale.

It's not a game to win.

Gonna knock it down from the inside out.

It's time to hear what's this all about.

Gonna knock it down from the inside out.

I'm done with all this shame and doubt.

Reviews

In October of 1957, I was born to the double, trouble of two toxic parents. These podcasts are triggering, validating and healing. They spark forgotten memories of childhood fear and hurt which helps me process the emotions I was not allowed to have. . The music and comedic banter help me to laugh and remember to breathe. Tammy’s childhood experiences and feelings closely mimic
the fear, confusion, doubt and pain I experienced growing up. I was already reading self help books at thirteen and tried to get my parents to come for family counseling at seventeen years old. Of course, they refused. Also helpful are the mention of books, study results, your personal takeaways and how they helped you. I loved your Thanksgiving song, “I hate my f-ing family”. A good deep belly, laugh out loud moment.
I want to hear everything you have to say. 🙏❤️😊

Y’all are hilarious! Humor is so important when dealing with these topics. I can’t tell you how many times I have laughed at my toxic parents through the years and I did not feel badly either!

Loved the song ! See y’all next time. 😍