97. Becoming A Better Couple: 4 Tools To Deepen Relationship

One of the most important aspects of a relationship is the work each person puts into it. When both partners are making the effort to focus on and elevate the other, a true, lasting relationship blossoms. Tune in as Monica and Michael take questions from listeners on common relationship issues and share practical advice for growing your emotional intelligence and becoming ever closer to your partner.

Transcript

I think very often relationships,

We focus on the effect and we never really go to the cause and the effect even looks like,

Well,

My partner just doesn't care or he just takes their side or I'm not important.

And none of that's really true.

But what's the cause?

I always say,

Look at the hurt behind the words or behind the actions.

You really look for that hurt.

You're going to see everything in a different view.

And what happens is then you have empathy.

And when you have empathy,

You're part of the solution.

It's not just,

Oh,

This is a problem that they need to fix because they're his children,

For instance.

Welcome to the Spiritually Hungry Podcast,

Episode 97.

So we had such a good time answering your relationship questions.

Last week,

We decided to devote another episode to it back in New York City.

Storm is coming.

I see out the window.

How are you doing?

I'm very excited to share.

And I was thinking about that we were going to get to a number of your questions and every person in relation was a different place.

And what I hope we do is not only answer the direct questions asked by a specific individual,

But that we maybe help share some principles that every person can use in their relationship.

So my goal and my hope is for our listeners to be able to,

Even if they're not going through the specific question that's being asked,

But hopefully be able to share some principles that can really make any relationship better.

And it's my hope that that's what we did last week as well.

Yes.

So here's my question.

I've been married for 12 years.

We have two kids.

My wife and I have struggled on and off.

I often feel like maybe I don't love her.

We're complete opposites.

She denies me sex a lot.

This last time was for four months.

During that time,

I met someone at work that I click with.

We've hung out and we text often.

She's going through a divorce.

I mean,

The story's getting worse.

I'm falling for her,

But I'm conflicted.

She's just gotten out of her marriage and I'm still in mine.

Do I leave my wife and pursue this new relationship?

Or is this destined to fail too?

What if I leave my wife and this new person doesn't work out?

Wow,

That's a lot.

Loaded.

So,

And again,

And I'm thinking of the perspective of principles rather than the direct answers to the question,

Because I don't think it's possible honestly to answer such a question that comes over email without actually knowing the person and the situation.

Well,

There's a few,

I think,

Warnings there for sure.

Well,

Definitely warnings,

But more importantly,

It's a principle.

So I would touch upon three points.

One,

The first part,

Which deals with what seems to be a relatively dysfunctional relationship that has been for 12 years.

They've been growing apart.

It certainly sounds like it.

I don't read it as dysfunctional.

I think they've been married for 12 years.

Wait one second.

Married 12 years,

Two kids.

He says he loves her,

Right?

They've struggled on and off.

Okay.

Well,

All relationships have struggles,

Especially the ones that aren't worked on.

And I often feel like maybe I don't love her and we're complete opposites.

My thing,

Let's just stop right there.

They were always probably complete opposites.

That's not new.

And feeling like maybe you don't love her,

You can't make such a big decision with that kind of sentence.

Because as I shared last week and I share often with couples,

The first thing that's ever lost in a relationship is appreciation.

And when you don't appreciate,

It's really impossible to be able to access the love that you might have.

You just simply can't in that moment.

And I've given the example often about children,

You know,

When they're newly born and they're just like,

Oh my God,

I get this miracle.

The appreciation is off the charts.

And so the love you feel as well,

It's a love I've never felt before.

Your parents say that,

Of course,

I love my spouse,

My partner,

But I've never felt love like this.

And then what happens when they're teenagers and.

.

.

Or even younger,

Right?

And they become,

Let's say,

Spoiled or bratty,

Defiant,

Or they start judging you or whatever the case may be.

Do you love them?

Of course,

You know,

You love them.

Do you always feel love for them in that moment?

No,

They're pushing every button.

And also you're not able to fully appreciate them because of their behavior.

But we know better because we know they're our children.

We know that we must love them.

We don't expect that love to go.

The difference with romantic relationships is like,

Oh,

This other person's making me feel great.

So the person that I'm with that doesn't make me feel great,

You know,

It's them,

Right?

There's nothing else.

Now,

The sex thing,

Of course,

That is an issue.

And that's an indication of some other things that aren't working in a relationship.

I always say sex is love in motion.

So I don't think I've heard that before.

Is that in your book?

Yes,

Michael.

The one you've read cover to cover.

I've lived it.

I've read about reading it.

And so I always say to couples,

If you're not having a healthy sex life or no sex life at all,

Really,

There's something else that's not working.

And this is just an effect of it and also cause for more issues when a couple is not intimate.

And then we can get into the partner,

The coworker at work and all of that and why that's dangerous.

But I'm not so sure that,

As you said,

It's what did you have?

What did you?

Yeah,

I wouldn't read it like that.

Well,

It's not a completely functional,

But that's secondary.

But I guess the point in which you're successful relationship,

It's not an optimal relationship.

It's not a relationship that's working.

But I'm not sure.

I think that this person,

If he hadn't met this new person,

Right,

Would he even consider leaving his wife at this stage?

Not necessarily.

Right.

So I think what you're saying,

Which is very important,

Is the fact,

And we've spoken about this in different podcasts on different topics,

Our view is always skewed one way or the other.

And this silly thing,

And Daniel Kahneman speaks about this a lot in his work,

That we think we believe something or even experience something in a certain way.

When in reality,

Most of the time,

We are thinking things,

Concluding things,

Experiencing things because of some previous thought experience.

For example,

I just heard this the other day,

And this is crazy,

And this is science,

Or at least in studies,

That they did a study on this where a person gets into an elevator and another person gets into an elevator holding coffee.

And they say,

Can you please hold my coffee after the time I shoot?

And then they take the coffee back,

They leave the elevator.

And then they ask the person who was the subject of the study,

The person who was in the elevator who was asked to hold the coffee,

What they thought about that person who they met for only a few seconds.

If the coffee was hot,

Then they have warm feelings towards that person.

If the coffee was cold,

They have negative feelings towards that person.

Which is crazy.

Which is crazy.

Right?

So,

And again,

This is,

At least in one study,

Scientifically proven that the heat or coolness of a drink that you were holding while you are asked to make an opinion about somebody completely skews you one way or the other.

And this is just one of countless,

Countless studies that hopefully make it very clear to every single one of us that our conclusions,

Our opinions are very subjective,

If not completely so.

Of course,

Again,

Most of us aren't crazy,

So there's always a kernel of reality upon which it is based.

But as a whole,

Our opinions are very,

Very subjective.

And what's more important,

Subjective in ways that we can't even access.

Right?

If the person in the elevator,

If you asked them a thousand times,

Why do you have such warm feelings with that person,

They will never say,

Well,

Oh,

It's because I was holding a warm drink in my hand.

So if you,

Your view on life is that,

Which I really strongly recommend all of our listeners to adapt that view,

To be very skeptical of our opinions,

To be very skeptical of opinions as we've come about other people and certainly about the important relationships.

Number one,

Be careful of your opinions.

They are always extremely subjective and more importantly,

Based on reasons you don't even know.

Many of them completely unrelated to the facts.

Second,

That every person,

Every relationship has good and bad.

And we've spoken about this in the past,

But it's very much related to this idea.

We choose what to focus on.

When you meet somebody and you were asked to write down,

If you were meeting somebody and you were asked to write down 10 negative things about them,

You can come up with 10.

And if you were asked to write 10 positive things about them,

You can come up with 10.

So why after a certain date,

Person is so excited about this person?

Is it because they think this person is zero of faults?

No.

It's just that in their opinion,

The good that they saw is so great,

The negative can be pushed aside,

Not focused on.

And in life,

And this is true not just in relationships,

But of course,

Extremely true in relationships.

The question isn't whether your partner is great or terrible.

The question is what part of them are you focusing on now?

Right.

In beginning relationships,

It's known that we all do this.

Everybody overemphasizes the positive and de-emphasizes the negative.

And when the euphoric feelings wear off about month six,

Around then,

Then the scale kind of goes to neutral,

Then it starts to flip the other way.

And I think it's important to be aware that that is a factual thing that happens to every single person,

Whether you're aware of it fully or not.

Right.

So that's principle number two.

But I also think that if you bring in the idea of Tikkun,

I think again,

Especially with this question that we got,

He seems to really be in limbo.

He's not sure what to do.

Maybe he loves his wife,

Maybe he doesn't.

He knows that he's not satisfied.

And also at the end,

He's like,

Well,

What if I leave and then it doesn't work with this new person?

And that's never a reason to believe.

And so couple-istically.

.

.

Right.

Again,

We've met people who are in a relationship only because they don't think or don't see a better option.

And we've also seen people who leave a relationship only because there is somebody else that they believe in some way is going to be a better option.

So if you're not fully sure and it doesn't work out,

You're going to be full of regret after and you've also have hurt your kids and your wife.

And certainly if you want to exit,

It's not about exiting or not.

It's really how to do it and where you need to be at in order to make that decision.

So a big part of it is this idea of Tikkun and that you chose this partner,

You chose to have a life with them,

To start a family with them.

At least see it all the way through.

Meaning,

Talk about all the reasons that you're not satisfied.

Talk about how you maybe can make it better.

Give it an honest shot.

And then if you still want to exit,

Then exit,

But exit fully present,

Fully aware and exit out of it with saying,

OK,

I'm now leaving,

But all these great things came from it because if you leave something and you still see it as all dark and all bad,

Then you're really still not being honest with yourself because nothing is that way.

Right.

And that's both beautiful and important point.

And it's a principle that I would call too soon.

That we've often had this conversation with people and they want to divorce this,

That or the other thing.

Quick,

Fast.

And the answer is almost always.

Again,

Of course,

It's extreme examples,

Abusive relationships and things like that where probably you want to,

If it's true,

You want to exit quickly,

But it's real abuse,

Of course.

And when people are married,

Their partner is the most amazing person in the world.

The second they're going towards divorce,

There is suddenly almost in all cases,

Not too many cases,

The partner is not the worst person in the world.

Like nobody should believe that.

Anyway,

Too soon.

Meaning,

And you brought up this idea of Tikkun,

Which is,

And the beauty of this conversation again,

It's not just about people who are thinking to separate or divorce or unhappy.

It's even for those who are happy.

The reason you're in a relationship,

The reason why anything happens in your life,

But now we're talking about relationships is because there's something for you to learn,

Change and grow from your partner.

That's why I'm always scared when somebody tells me,

Oh,

Me and my partner never fight.

Me and my partner's perfect.

You know,

Everything is exactly as it should be.

Well,

Are you learning,

Changing and growing?

If you're not learning,

Changing and growing,

There's something missing.

There's something missing.

Yeah.

I mean,

If you're not fighting on some level,

You're not,

You don't care enough to fight about something.

It doesn't have to be a drag out full on,

You know,

Aggressive fight,

But at least have the conversations that are difficult.

Right.

It really disappoints me when I hear people say,

Oh,

You know,

Just keep a peaceful home.

Don't say anything at all.

You know,

Just make your I hear men say this more than the not just make your wife happy.

Let her be.

And it's just like,

Wait a second.

What?

Nobody.

That's right.

I hate the phrase.

And again,

I don't want to offend anybody.

Happy wife,

Happy life.

To me,

It sounds very condescending and silly.

Yeah,

Because it seems to indicate like,

Oh,

I need to placate this person.

So just make her think that,

You know,

And not really be that vulnerable.

If the view which which which I strongly we strongly believe is the way you want to be living in a relationship is that you are meant to be in some way challenging,

In some way supporting each other to learn new,

To grow,

To change and to grow.

And the corollary to that is that if you don't do that,

You have to repeat it.

So if you're in a relationship and even if we'll assume that this is not should not be your long term relationship,

There's something for you to learn from this relationship.

And there's a process to go through.

And if you don't,

You have to repeat it with somebody else.

And if you don't learn it with them,

You have to repeat it with somebody else.

So therefore,

What you said,

Monica,

Is so important that especially probably,

You know,

I think we learn most from challenges.

We learn,

Unfortunately,

Less from the positive.

If you are in a relationship that is not going the right way,

Embrace the opportunity,

Not just the opportunity because it's okay or good,

But because it's necessary for you.

I think this has to be very clear to anybody,

Again,

In a relationship who is possibly thinking of ending it.

And by the way,

This is true if it's just a relationship for a week.

Right?

Here we're talking about a marriage of 12 years.

If you understand that you're in this relationship because you,

Yeah,

You want to receive love and so much from your partner.

But the reason why I'm married to you,

Monica,

Besides all I can list a million things that I'm so happy that you give me and that I receive from you and that I receive from our marriage,

Our relationship.

But I would say uppermost in my thought about our relationship is the fact that you are enabling me to learn new things,

To change and to grow.

So to all of our listeners,

Again,

This principle of too soon is the fact that if,

Which I don't think is the way most people view their relationships,

Right?

Most people view their relationship as I want to be with somebody who makes me happy.

I want to be somebody who just gives me.

That's beautiful.

That's great.

That's not the real purpose of relationships.

The real purpose of relationships,

It's somebody who helps me learn more,

Who helps me change,

Who helps me grow.

But of course you have to create,

Both parties have to create the space to do that in a way that is helpful and healthy and kind.

And that again is the importance of speaking about the things that you're not satisfied about,

Speaking about the things that you want more of,

Including a sexual relationship.

That doesn't just happen.

Why has it stopped?

So it's all of those things.

And I think that even if,

And I have meetings with people who have fully completely decided they don't want to be in a marriage anymore,

Still give the same advice.

You owe it to that person and to yourself to see it through all the way.

Why put so many years and time and energy and then you're just going to run away from it without fully having those understandings and growth from it?

Even if you decide to leave,

There's still a growth,

Right?

There's still a change.

Absolutely.

And again,

I think just to directly begin to answer the question to this listener,

But really what can you say you've learned,

You've changed,

You've grown from your partner?

If you don't have an answer to that question,

It's too soon.

It's too soon.

The fourth principle,

Which I think.

.

.

And also I think maybe just push pause on that new friendship until you can get the clarity.

For sure,

Because that'll.

.

.

You're already putting everything,

You're throwing it into the next relationship.

And it will cloud your ability.

.

.

To see what's real.

.

.

.

To see what's real and to see what you need to learn and what you need to grow.

Exactly.

And related to that,

The fourth principle,

Which I would say is the idea of work.

And you speak about this a lot,

Monica,

That unfortunately most people after they found their soulmate or they think their partner,

They stopped the work.

They put so much time and effort into finding.

And then once they found,

Okay,

Now life goes on.

The only way that any relationship,

Any relationship can become the most powerful,

Fulfilling,

Beautiful,

Loving relationship is if work is invested in work again.

Some people don't like that word.

It has negative connotation,

Hard work maybe,

But investment of time and effort.

How are you pushing yourself and your partner together?

And this is hopefully in a positive sense before there are any problems.

Yeah,

Before pushing.

How much thought do you put there?

Can you even think about investing or think about how could this be better or how could I show up more?

How can they show up more for me and really find proactive ways to do that?

Right.

For most people,

It's not even a thought.

Forget about an action.

Right.

So four principles really for any relationship,

But certainly a relationship for which you have a question,

Meaning questions,

Should I continue?

Should I not continue?

One is the understanding that your view is going to be completely subjective.

So don't trust it too much.

Of course,

You have to listen to what your mind is telling you.

But remember that it's very,

Very subjective.

Number two,

That you are.

And I think a way to go back to awakening the appreciation is think back to when you got married.

Try to remember the things that you liked about your partner.

What you were drawn to them.

What drew you to them.

What you enjoy doing.

Think about the times you laughed together,

The experience you had,

Because the truth matter is probably not remembering any of that.

In fact,

Many people rewrite history.

It's something that happens a lot.

I remember I met with somebody.

I was like,

Okay.

And she wanted to leave her husband.

And I did this exercise with her.

And I said,

Go back to your wedding day.

What was like,

It was the worst day ever.

It was raining.

I mean,

She listed every.

But before that,

When I first met her,

Right,

When she was just happy and that was not a source of disappointment for her,

It was the best day ever.

And she completely had erased that from her mind and only remembered the few things that didn't go right,

But didn't bother her at the time.

Right.

And therefore,

I think what you said is so important.

I think a question to this listener who wrote in this question,

But really to all of our listeners,

If you're going to end the relationship,

The first question she asks herself is how many good things do I see in my ex partner to be?

If that list is empty,

You're not ready to leave because we talked about subjective.

We talked about focusing on the good or the bad.

You are completely in the wrong.

Yeah.

You can make the list of 10 things and still say,

Okay,

But still this and this and this is not working.

I don't see a future for it.

And so that's okay.

Yeah,

That's okay.

But if you are in that,

Anyway,

This is the crazy thing.

You see,

You meet people who are entering divorce and suddenly their partner or their ex partner to be is evil incarnate.

Come on,

You were together for five years,

For 10,

15 years.

How did you do with so people use these words?

Unless they did something really horrendous.

Of course,

They are the 3% let's say who are terrible people or at least I wouldn't say terribly who behave terribly,

But the rest of us,

The other 97% of relationships when again we've seen this.

We've seen people who are in love.

They see such great things about each other.

And then the week after or whatever that time comes,

There's literally no good.

This person is so evil.

That's proof that not only are you seeing subjectively,

You're seeing wrong.

So what you said is that when we talk about the acceptance of the fact that our views of our relationships is going to be subjective and often subjective around things that we're not even aware of.

Number two,

That we're making a choice to see the positive or the negative.

If you can make a list of 10 good things about your partner or ex partner to be,

You're definitely not ready.

This is the third point too soon.

Third principle.

Like Monica said,

You have a tycoon with this person.

For you,

Forget about them.

There's ways that you need to learn,

Change and grow.

If not,

They wouldn't be in your movie.

Exactly.

And worse than that,

If you don't learn,

Change and grow from this relationship,

The next relationship will have a lot of the same parts,

Areas,

Things.

So you better correct it now and then maybe leave,

But correct it.

So can you make a list of things that you need or did change,

Learn and grow from this relationship?

And then fourth,

As we said,

Is work.

Can you honestly tell yourself?

And something the answer is yes,

That you've invested the necessary work to make this relationship or any relationship the most powerful and beautiful relationship as it is meant to be.

And again,

These four principles are good for to answer this question,

But also powerful for anybody who's in a positive relationship.

Make sure you're doing these four things.

Make sure you're not being too subjective.

Make sure that you're focusing again more and more on the positive.

Make sure that you're not making decisions too soon.

And most importantly,

That you're investing the work.

So to answer this question,

I think it's obvious,

Right?

The answer is,

Again,

Without knowing this person,

Is that do the work that we just spoke about.

All four steps.

Stop this other relationship that you're developing and focus on these four areas with this person.

And if you can answer the questions as we pose them and you can create these lists as we've said them,

Then maybe you're ready to think about separating.

But without these four,

Again,

Of course,

Everybody's free to.

.

.

And also there's some dangerous belief systems here like,

Do I leave my wife and pursue this new relationship or is this destined to fail too?

If you believe that you're destined for failure in relationships,

Like there's things that need to be sorted out here just for that person alone.

Of course.

So I have a question for you.

This is a very practical one,

But again,

Let's hope that we,

As we answer this,

We can create some principles for all of our listeners,

Whether they have some challenges in their relationships or everything's going smoothly.

So this is both mine and my husband's second marriage.

And we both have children from those previous marriages.

I have one who lives with us and visits dad every other weekend.

His three kids visit every other weekend.

His kids are disrespectful.

They make used messes.

They don't clean up.

They leave their dirty dishes all over the house.

They're destructive to furniture,

Scoff the walls,

Break chairs and talk back.

I'm sorry,

I'm just going to get a quick break.

I don't know if I ever tell you the story.

This reminds me around 1980 or so,

We had moved from Israel to New York and my mother's family,

Mostly uncles and great uncles and their cousins.

And they were here.

I mean,

You didn't really know them.

And there was one uncle who had these,

I guess we can call them crazy kids.

And they came into our house and they came with a bowling ball.

Why?

I don't know.

And they started rolling the bowling ball in our house.

Who let them bring the bowling ball?

Their father.

I mean.

Yeah.

But it's so funny.

Did I need a break?

I think my parents made it very clear they will not be rolling their bowling ball anymore in our house.

Anyway,

Back to the question.

Their dad can control them and he doesn't get tough with them because he fears that if he comes down too hard on them,

They won't want to visit him anymore.

And we've heard this from other people,

Other relationships as well.

It's unfair to my child who has rules and boundaries.

There are two sets of rules for his kids and mine.

Basically mine has rules and his have none.

And on top of that,

It always falls on me to clean up after them.

Our relationship is pretty good except when his kids are here.

I dread it.

I try to set boundaries and explain my perspective to him,

But it always devolves into a fight where he shouts,

Fine,

You hate my kids.

I won't have them come over anymore.

I'll get a hotel and we'll stay at my mom's.

Or we'll stay at my mom's.

I don't hate his kids.

I want him to enforce rules.

And if he isn't going to make them clean up after themselves,

Then he needs to clean up after them,

Not me.

It's completely unfair to me and no matter how many times I've explained it,

Nothing ever changes.

The device,

Question mark.

So before you answer this question,

I'd like to point out to our listeners that this question,

Although in many relationships,

Certainly in second relationships,

Second marriages,

This comes up where you have a disparity between the way the one child behaves and another child behaves,

And often there is that fear of the divorced father or mother,

But often father,

That his kids won't love him if he disciplines them.

But what I want to point out again before Monica answers the question is that this is also true,

And we've seen this and this has come to our desks often as well,

When somebody's parents come over and they're critical and they behave in a certain way.

Or somebody's friends come over.

So this is really an encompassing question for all relationships.

How do you deal with,

Be it a child from previous relationship,

Be it a friend,

Be it a parent who comes into the home,

Or more importantly,

Comes into a relationship and in some way seems to be doing damage,

And the other partner either isn't open or too scared or worried to make the changes that the spouse is asking for?

So I think a lot of this comes down to a couple being emotionally intelligent with one another.

If,

For example,

You bring in the parent,

Right?

Let's say the mother-in-law comes in the house and there's issues,

All kinds of boundaries being crossed,

And the wife then gets upset why the husband isn't defending her or why he changes in her presence or so all kinds of things that happen.

It's never,

It will be very difficult to resolve when you're pointing out like,

Did you see this?

And do you see what she did?

Or you see how you?

And maybe all of that will be true,

But what it comes down to is what is the history,

Right?

What is the fear of the person?

Why do they feel they can't stick up to their children or to their mother?

Why do they feel like they can't do the right thing?

Obviously,

It's creating stress for them also.

But I think that a lot of the issues that we have in relationships and the expectations that we put on our partners is really about the person themselves not knowing themselves,

Loving themselves,

Having worked through things.

So for instance,

Let's say the father is the one we're talking about and now his new wife is expecting things or his mother is expecting things or his children and he finds himself in the middle of this,

I would say there's probably many unresolved issues and feelings he has surrounding those relationships or his own childhood and maybe his parents weren't there for him.

We were so complicated and we come with so many movies and so many stories in our head and often we're not even aware of them.

So we A,

Don't express them.

We B,

Haven't really worked through them and then we start new chapters and then they kind of combine and we find ourselves at a loss to really create change.

So we have the same scenario over and over again and it really comes from fear.

A lot of these issues,

Especially what our listener wrote to us,

Comes down to fear,

Fear of losing love,

Fear of losing connection,

Fear of not being enough and also the movies right?

We might have a scenario in our head where we expect it to be perfect and this blended family should get along great like the Brady Bunch and then if it didn't,

Then I'm a failure and we come with all of this baggage,

All of these stories that we just don't express.

So I'd say the first thing is become,

Start to become aware of the stories in your own head and then invite your partner in and share those with them and then create a new story together.

I remember when early on in our marriage when we would plan because Sunday was like the only day we were really out together as a family and in my mind,

Right,

I'd have a whole plan and – As you often do.

But then it was like it was perfect,

Right?

You know,

We were going to go out at this time,

We were going to go here,

Everybody – and of course in my vision,

Everybody was smiling the whole time.

There was no fighting.

There was no,

You know,

Nothing.

Nothing went,

Not according to plan.

And by the way,

Just to give our listeners some context on how it didn't at a certain point in our – now they get along great,

Our two oldest – our oldest son and our oldest daughter,

We used to call them Tom and Jerry.

We started to sometimes.

Now it's more as a joke.

But as most of our listeners,

Those of you who know the cartoon,

Tom and Jerry,

They are always fighting.

And it wasn't even that.

It was like,

You know,

We had this whole day,

It was going to be great,

Then we'd go to dinner.

But then like in real life,

Nobody wanted to go to dinner or they didn't like the restaurant and the food was really – but you know,

It just – it became – and so – and then I'd get upset and I'd get frustrated and you'd be like,

Why are you upset?

We had such a great family day.

And it's a perfect example.

Then when I could express to you,

Yes,

I appreciate that we were together as a family.

But in my mind,

This is what it was like and this is the picture I created and that didn't replicate reality in any way.

So I think that that's a big thing.

It's just not being aware of those stories and those movies.

The individual you mean you're sharing with their partner or both?

Both.

Both.

And then the fear.

Right.

So I want – Related to that.

That's a very important point and I want to expand that a little bit what you just said.

So how would therefore to directly answering the question to the – What the advice?

Yeah.

So I would say first give your partner the benefit of the doubt.

Try to imagine why they are handling this the way they are,

Why it's difficult.

I don't think,

Again,

If you're in a loving relationship and let's say that partner is helpful usually and cleans up after himself and you're not really fighting about those kinds of things.

He takes your emotions seriously and your feelings and he supports them.

But it's only when the kids are around.

This is connected deeply to a fear that he has of loss.

Navigate that conversation.

Be an investigator.

Ask questions from a place of curiosity,

Not from judgment,

Not from demanding,

Not from expectation but really helping him see maybe what he can't see.

Somebody has to be the one that's going to be the bigger person.

It's not the other one smaller.

It's just that one has to be able to help the one that feels really stuck and not even aware or probably conscious of what's going on.

So I would say that that's the first step.

And if the conversation doesn't go well the first time,

Do it again and again and share why you're doing it.

I think very often relationships,

We focus on the effect and we never really go to the cause.

And the effect even looks like,

Well,

My partner just doesn't care or he just takes their side or I'm not important.

And none of that's really true.

What's the cause?

I always say look at the hurt behind the words or behind the actions.

If you really look for that hurt,

You're going to see everything in a different view.

And what happens is then you have empathy.

And when you have empathy,

You're part of the solution and it's not just,

Oh,

This is a problem that they need to fix because they're his children,

For instance.

So there are two principles that you shared,

Which I think is so important.

What I really like about that is that not only answers where this begins to give direction to this listener,

But I think to all of our listeners creates two very important principles.

One that if there's something that's a significant issue in the relationship,

Even though it seems to be the big issue,

The bigger issue behind it is probably that there isn't enough emotional intelligence.

And the issue behind that is that there isn't enough deep vulnerable conversations happening.

So.

.

.

Right.

The first one is the designated issue.

It's the one issue that seems the biggest and it's the one that everybody seems to be comfortable talking about.

Then the real issue,

The deeper issue.

.

.

Or just the fact that I think most people who are not even conscious of it,

They just say,

Well,

This is the only thing I see.

I just see that when his kids come over,

Things are terrible.

I think most people aren't,

Unfortunately,

Even self-aware or emotionally intelligent enough about themselves and certainly their partner to say the real issue behind it is the fact that we're not close enough.

Now when you get close enough and you develop that emotional intelligence to have those deep conversations where he maybe he shares about the fact that because he came from a divorced family and he saw that his father lost contact with his kids and so on and so forth,

For example,

That's why I don't want that to happen to me.

Beautiful.

So you've now gotten closer.

The beautiful thing about what you said,

Monica,

Is the fact that when you view the problems in that way,

That,

Okay,

This is the problem.

And we do have to come to a solution about this.

But the bigger thing that it's pointing to is the fact that we're not close enough,

That we do not have enough emotional awareness because we haven't had those vulnerable conversations.

Then no one's fault.

Maybe they just don't have access to that.

But do it now.

When any issue comes up rather than first going at,

Oh,

You better yell at your kids next time they come here.

And I'm right and you're wrong.

And all of this,

All of the examples she gave were things that create more separation.

We have two sets of rules for the kids.

I'm cleaning up.

That creates resentment if you do it over and over again.

You can see how leaving that untouched and unpacked is going to create a whole bunch of other problems in the relationship that they're not even aware of yet.

And what's beautiful about what you said,

And you often use this word as well,

Which is so important in this case,

In any case of an issue that comes up in a relationship,

Be curious.

Right?

Because,

And again,

This is not natural.

I'll be really clear to our listeners.

What Monica often says to do is not the natural instinct.

The natural instinct is if there's something that's not working,

I want to solve this.

As opposed to saying,

No,

Everything can be a way to deepen our relationship.

Everything needs to be a way to deepen our relationship.

And rather than suggesting to this listener to sit down,

Her husband said,

Listen,

Next time your kids come,

They cannot do this.

They better not do that.

And so on.

Say,

But really come from a place of vulnerability and love and curiosity and really come to understand on the deepest level,

Why is it that he's so scared to reprimand them?

Why is it that he allows them to behave?

And you will learn so many things.

And most importantly,

It'll make you that much closer.

And then by the way,

With that new emotional intelligence,

With that new closeness developed by coming from really a nonjudgmental,

Open,

Vulnerable place and curiosity about why he is behaving as he is behaving in this situation,

You will grow closer.

And by the way,

From that closeness,

You will probably together find a pretty positive solution to this issue.

Even if you had the best and you had the best relationship advisor here with Monica,

Even if you had the best relationship advisor and they just told you how to solve this issue,

You'd be missing at least a great opportunity and maybe not even possible to solve it without it.

Any issue that's coming up in the relationship,

It is an opportunity.

But you have to come with a vulnerability,

With a curiosity,

And really take the time to have the conversation about the deep underpinnings emotionally,

Historically,

And otherwise,

Why your partner is behaving in this way.

And then,

As I said,

The beauty of it is that you'll get closer,

You'll be more vulnerable.

And from that vulnerability and really togetherness,

You'll be able to find solutions together,

Which you will not be able to find unless you begin in that way.

And again,

It's.

.

.

And all of these,

Really,

If you're in a healthy relationship,

Conflicts are such an opportunity to create closeness and deeper connection.

That is why it's so necessary to fight and to speak about these things and to work through them.

Because if not,

You're hiding parts of yourself,

You're hiding your feelings,

And it creates a lot of other negative feelings.

Absolutely.

And the only thing I would add to that is that these conversations should be happening all the time,

Even before conflicts arise.

If you're in a relationship,

Everything's going well,

Well,

Are you taking the opportunity to have vulnerable conversations,

Deep conversations,

To get to know the emotional.

.

.

What's the word you use?

The emotional map of your partner.

Because by the way,

That'll protect you more from the challenges when they come from separating between you,

But also more importantly,

It'll make your relationship that much better,

Closer and fulfilling.

So to just recap the principles from this question is that whenever any challenge that comes up in a relationship,

Take a step back,

Come from a place of vulnerability and have a conversation,

A curious conversation,

To really understand on a deeper level why they are behaving in this way.

And do that,

By the way,

When there's conflict,

But do that as often as you can,

Because that's what really brings you closer.

But don't assume it.

Ask questions.

Of course,

That's curiosity.

Bring them in.

Right.

Allow them to be vulnerable.

Right.

Right.

And that's very,

Very important.

Because then that creates compassion.

And then you are going to respond differently.

And in fact,

Those things won't bother you as much,

But they'll also happen less because your partner will also understand you and see you in a different way.

Absolutely.

Beautiful.

So thank you,

Monica,

For that answer.

I hope that our listeners were able from these questions and answers to gain some principles to make all relationships,

Those with challenges and those with questions,

Into more deeper and more fulfilling.

I'd like to share,

It's been a few episodes since we shared a story,

And this one is so Monica and I both,

When we read it,

We were like,

We have to share this with our listeners.

So this is from a listener,

Sheila.

This was regarding episode 93,

The Purpose of Sadness,

Five Ways It Can Help You Grow.

And she writes the following.

This has been an incredibly helpful podcast,

And I thank you both for your wisdom.

I'm incredibly sad at this time because my husband is terminally ill.

The light bulb went on that of course I'm very sad.

So I've stayed with that sadness and more importantly,

Allowed myself to feel it.

And I wept.

Looking forward to next week's talk.

I love you both.

So Sheila,

First of all,

It makes,

It's both humbling and beautiful for us to hear that our words,

Our podcast is helping,

Especially in such painful times for our listeners.

And if in any way we can help a person go through the painful challenges of life,

It makes us and our work very fulfilling.

So I want to thank you for having the vulnerability to share this with us.

And we're sending you so much support and love and light.

Yes.

And as I said,

When we read that,

We know that all of the thousands of listeners,

There must be every week something,

Wisdom,

Inspiration that we share.

But if when we hear stories like that,

It really awakens within us both the desire and the motivation to continue to share and share with all of our listeners.

So as always,

Continue to send your questions,

Comments,

And stories to monicaandmichaelatkabala.

Com.

As we've shown in the past two episodes,

We read all the questions,

We answer many of them.

So if you want the opportunity for us to directly answer any of your questions on any topic,

Please make sure to continue to send them and continue to write your stories,

Inspirational ideas as Sheila did with all of us and with all of you.

I'm sure that our listeners,

If not simply only ourselves,

Will find them very inspiring and motivating.

And as always,

Make sure to share this podcast with everybody you know,

Go to Apple Podcasts,

Like five star reviews and anywhere you get your podcast from,

Write positive reviews.

Hopefully they're positive.

And as always,

We hope you enjoyed listening to this podcast as much as we enjoyed recording it.

Stay spiritually hungry.

Bye.

Reviews

This was so very insightful. My first time listening this podcast and when you mentioned having a book I immediately went to Amazon and got it and started reading. Thank you.

Very helpful practical information xx