How To Change The World

Marlee welcomes Rachel Butt, Sound Healer, Artist, Musician, Meditator, and founder of Wondrousound, for a conversation about creating a new world through embodiment. Rachel shares about how to change the world without burning out, tips and tools for creating a better world through us, and how to collaborate and co-create in the community. Marlee and Rachel also discuss the tumultuous times we live in and the lessons we all need to learn in order to create a better world!

At the end, Rachel also shares a special song to help connect us with the New Earth!

Please note: This track may include some explicit/strong language.

Transcript

Welcome to the Shifting with Marlee podcast.

I'm Marlee.

Thank you for joining me wherever you are.

All that I ask of you,

The listener,

Is to have an open mind and an open heart.

And in return,

I offer you myself.

Today,

We're going to talk about creating a new world through embodiment,

Creating a new world through us,

And the connection between internal change and external change.

We started this conversation back in episode 42,

Living Our Values.

And today we're going to discuss how to actually bring this into our lives and tips and tools to put this into practice and make it happen.

It's all about being the change.

That's embodiment.

As Thich Nhat Hanh says,

Our own life has to be our message.

Because you are alive,

Everything is possible.

Here to guide us today and share her story and wisdom is Rachel Butt.

Rachel is an artist,

Musician,

Sound healer,

And meditator and founder of Wondrous Sound with a background in music,

Law,

And social justice advocacy.

Welcome,

Rachel.

Thanks so much.

Thanks for having me.

I'm so grateful to connect with you today.

Thank you so much for being here.

Yeah,

It's my pleasure.

I love your energy and that introduction.

Thank you.

And before we dive in,

Rachel,

Can you please let people know where they can find you and connect with you?

Yeah,

Sure.

Well,

I probably spend a bit too much time on Instagram,

But you can find me there.

Yeah,

It's at Wondrous Sound,

Which is all one word.

I made it a bit difficult for people to find me,

Unfortunately,

But find me they will.

Rachel,

I'd love to start today by talking about your burnout story.

Can you please share with us a bit about your background and what led to your burnout?

Sure.

Yeah,

I was reflecting on this question.

I remember when I did have my my burnout,

My first burnout,

Let's call it that.

My mom actually said,

Oh,

So this is gonna happen years ago,

You know,

So I can't even manage to go beyond the expectation of of my burnout.

So looking back,

I really was living completely out of harmony with my capacity.

Bless me,

You know,

And bless us because this is what I noticed we do often.

But I'm a very passionate person and I've always lived my values.

But even in that way,

You know,

We can be compelled to act,

As I say,

Outside of our limits.

And so for myself,

My background is in music.

And I was in a punk band for many years.

So it wasn't the most healthiest lifestyle.

So I didn't have the great foundation there.

But it was a lot of fun.

And then I left that to study law and human rights.

And I was working with asylum seekers in my hometown,

Coventry in the UK.

And then I carried on,

Yeah,

Studying law,

And then I was volunteering,

And then I was making music.

And there was about a period of about three years where I think,

Yeah,

I was literally busy every second I would wake up,

I would be doing emails for the band I was in,

You know,

We were signed,

We were touring.

So I was busy.

So every night with that.

And then I was in a quite important,

Well,

I say important role,

I was working with very vulnerable women in a legal system that was very unfair on them.

And there was nobody else in my team that was witnessing what I was seeing.

So I sort of took it on my shoulders to try to change the system,

Which we did,

But it was at great cost to my well being.

But then looking back,

Outside of that role,

Had I been resting,

But I was,

Yeah,

I was I was on stage in London,

You know,

And then I was driving back in the middle of the night and I was in court.

I mean,

It's Yeah,

No wonder that I eventually my body said stop.

Wow,

Thank you so much for sharing.

I am so interested in your life story.

And once you were burnt out,

Rachel,

And realize that that wasn't sustainable,

And that you needed to make some changes.

What changes did you make?

Yes,

Well,

I am quite an extreme person.

So luckily for me,

I sort of knew I was in trouble,

But I didn't know exactly how to rectify it because I was so determined to make these systemic changes.

And I think it was once we had,

Or we were sort of in the 11th hour of those changes,

My body sort of got that subconscious message like you can stop now,

You know,

So it just collapsed.

Yeah.

And luckily,

I had found,

As you mentioned,

Our friend Thich Nhat Hanh,

Zen master,

Peace activist Thich Nhat Hanh,

Because I was always reading sociology,

Philosophy,

History,

And I'd discovered the Eastern wisdom and it really resonated with me at the sort of my deepest parts.

And I'd managed to go to a retreat the summer before my real burnout,

Which was all about how do we care for ourselves while we're working compassionately in the world.

So it planted this seed in me and knowing that there was a place where I could go and go deeper into this practice actually.

And that's exactly what I did.

So I was lucky that I had that seed in my mind and because I'd already volunteered for a week in this retreat centre,

I was able to go back for the whole summer to volunteer.

And I kind of haven't looked back really from that time.

Yeah,

It really did change my life,

My lifestyle,

My everything.

And so did you at that time in that transition time,

Did you leave the band,

Leave your studies,

Leave the work you were doing,

You know,

In the advocacy?

Everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean,

To be honest,

I think about a year before that,

As I say,

A year before the burnout,

I knew I was in trouble.

I knew I was going to finish this work.

And I and I knew that I couldn't sustain being in the band in the music industry as it was as well.

So,

Yes,

It's quite layered.

But I sort of spent that year.

I wasn't tangling myself from all of these relationships step by step in a kind,

You know,

In an authentic way to give people warning.

So,

For example,

With the band,

I knew that I didn't want to be on this rat race of like releasing an album and then touring the album and try and get the album on the radio.

It's really like the carrot you're chasing a future happiness.

That's really what it's based on.

So I actually communicated to the label and our management that because we'd already got another album ready to release that I wouldn't be releasing that with an out with a label or with management.

It was a self-release because we just wanted to share the music.

But I knew and I said to my bandmate,

You know,

Sorry,

Mate,

But I'm going to the monastery.

I just need to yeah,

To live this because actually the music was was about Zen.

Actually,

It was it was starting to I was sort of exploring it through music at the beginning.

And I realised,

Yeah,

I just need to live this instead of just chatting about it on stage.

And same with my my work.

I think I'd come to the end of a contract just before I got signed off about six weeks before the end of my contract by the doctor who said,

You know,

You've got to stop.

But I'd already been planning to leave that frontline work because I knew I couldn't sustain being it was really the vicarious trauma of witnessing so much suffering day in,

Day out,

Being submerged in it.

And I had more of a strategic mindset as well of how to change things.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

You really went against the grain and forge your own unique path.

I love that.

It's really inspiring that your burnout was the catalyst for shedding the old stories and ways of being that no longer served you and creating a new story and a new life.

That was more in alignment.

This is it.

They do say don't notice it is actually a breakthrough.

We are actually lucky if we can break down.

I mean,

It's a privilege to have a breakdown and have somebody's house that you can recover and for example,

And be fed.

And so I don't take that lightly either.

I had loving friends and family that wanted to help me just that incubator phase before I then take my own steps.

But if we have the privilege to allow ourselves to break and to see what's not working and to then have a real rebuilding,

I think this is a gift for ourselves and the world.

Beautiful.

It is a gift.

And I'm curious,

Rachel,

What did your life feel like then versus what does your life feel like now?

How are the overall energies different?

Yes.

Well,

It's funny.

I'm in a stage.

I think when you start meditating at first,

It's lovely because you start to realize you start to stop doing all the things you were doing that created suffering.

So there's this kind of bliss period.

So I think at the beginning,

I was so happy.

I remember I spent the summer pot washing in the monastery.

So what we would do is we would have a family for each week retreat.

You're in a family and you each have a job.

And my job was to wash pots for like 300 people.

And I remember I'd gone from being on stage or being in the courtroom,

Having quite high profile in one sense status to just pot washing.

And I was so happy.

I was so free.

And I realized,

Yeah.

Oh,

Like what have I been missing?

Because there was just so much joy being together with these people,

Drinking tea,

Just playing really and being present and then having this very menial but repetitive job.

So that was a real bliss time for me.

And obviously,

When you're in the monastery,

I was probably using intoxicants,

I would say.

I'm from the UK,

So we like to drink.

So at the time,

I was probably,

I was so stressed before I left.

I was having panic attacks in the middle of the night because that was the only time where my body was relaxed enough to sort of feel anything and to release this deep stress and trauma.

And then I would take refuge in alcohol,

Staying up late,

Eating crap.

So I can't really imagine how awful I felt,

But I can remember just this roller coaster.

It would have been like a roller coaster.

And then there was this bliss period of not doing all these things that make me suffer.

But now I'm more in a period where once you create space inside yourself,

All of the repressed feelings that you haven't had time to feel or pushed away emerge.

And it's difficult,

Actually.

And I've actually had health problems and different things coming.

And at first,

I was a bit angry.

I was like,

Oh,

Hang on a minute.

I'm really healthy.

And I relax and I meditate and I don't do all this destructive stuff.

But in a way,

It's like there's a journey,

There's a part that you need to then integrate all of this energy that you haven't allowed yourself to feel.

And there's like a big period of adjustment.

And then if you're interested in the spiritual side,

You've got all your ancestral trauma backed up as well.

So there's a sort of stability in me through the practice.

But there's also suffering.

There's a lot of suffering.

And it's learning how to navigate that and not be afraid.

Yeah.

So that's a long answer.

I love that answer.

And it's very real.

And thank you for kind of demystifying the process.

And it's not all rainbows and sunshine,

But it is worth it.

Right?

It is.

I think we either are healing or we're destroying ourselves.

So it's just which path do you want?

And I think too,

Back when you were in the thick of it,

Right before your burnout,

There was,

My guess is a lot of pushing and forcing and grinding energy as well,

Right?

So even though you are through that and living more in alignment,

And even though there is still a lot coming up,

I imagine there is still a flow and an ease and a spaciousness that you have now that you didn't have before.

Yeah,

I would say so.

I really do think that when we're in harmony,

I call it with our inner sound.

This is something Yogi Bhajan said.

I think I read it on a cup of tea,

You know,

He has his little notes.

But yeah,

When we're really listening and we're attuned to that,

And of course,

We're going to come out of harmony regularly.

But it's just about listening,

Noticing that we have coming back,

Taking care of the energy,

Communicating to others if we need to really living in this dance.

So it's more dynamic than just peace.

But it's a dynamism where you're listening,

Then you're kind of,

I think it's like you're,

You're getting on the track,

You know,

Of life,

Life force energy,

Because we are life,

And we're meant to thrive.

So it's just that we get so out of tune out of balance,

We can't hear anymore.

Well,

Where's the track gone?

But once you start doing that,

It's true,

You have this kind of potential to live from life's energy.

And for sure,

It's another thing is that I was over consuming exactly to push myself to,

To get on stage and to get up in the next morning.

And,

And now,

Of course,

I still enjoy consuming things.

But it's not to sort of get me to do something else.

It's just for the pleasure of the taste,

The experience,

You know,

And yeah,

And I have to watch my own boundaries.

Of course,

I'm still a still a pleasure seeker in me that's alive.

But it's not this forcing,

Like you say,

That's the big difference.

If I'm tired,

I go to bed,

You know,

I go to bed,

I go to bed about 9pm.

It's like,

I'm tired.

Good night.

Oh,

My gosh,

I love you.

I really resonate with that.

Thank you for the inspiration.

Like,

I'm very inspired by that for myself.

So thank you.

And Rachel,

You've clearly always been passionate about changing the world and changing these systems.

And I think the intention behind a lot of advocacy and activism is to create a better world,

Right?

But I'm curious how your perspective on changing the world has evolved over time from your law and social justice advocacy days to now and like,

What is your current perspective?

Yes,

No,

That's a really good question.

And it has,

It's done like a 180,

I guess it's like that,

Because,

And I'm really grateful,

Actually,

For the journey that I've had,

Because with what's going on in the world now,

I feel so lucky that I had sort of my own micro experience of this,

You know,

The huge challenges that we all face now,

As well as when I was doing it,

I noticed these things I always have.

But I noticed some of my friends or people,

You know,

Of privilege,

We're protected from some of the harsher realities of life that many people face on a daily basis.

Whereas now I feel and doing the work I was doing was my choice to engage with those harsh realities and contribute.

But now I think we're all facing,

You know,

Terror,

Really,

You know,

Climate breakdown,

War,

Potentially world war,

We know what's going on at the moment in Gaza and Palestine,

You know,

It's full on.

And yeah,

I'm grateful that I've kind of,

I feel like I'm ready,

You know.

And the main thing I'm ready for is to not blame and hate people,

Not blame and hate.

And this is the biggest thing.

It's the energy behind our action matters so much.

It's everything.

And you know,

When I was yeah,

Witnessing suffering,

And I was seeing how I saw it as the government and the decision makers were letting down my clients who were vulnerable,

Who are being re traumatized,

Re victimized by our systems that were supposed to support them and keep them safe.

I was so angry.

I was like,

I have a lot of fire anyway,

But I was so angry at them.

You know,

And I remember just I said,

They're so incompetent.

And how can they just be there going on their holidays and just having this normal life where their actions are like destroying my clients lives and they didn't seem to as a disconnect.

Yeah,

And I was so angry at them.

And it's easy to fall into that space.

And I can see that now,

Of course,

With what's happening is huge injustice.

And there's huge lies that we're being presented.

And of course,

It's natural.

And it's important to touch into that anger,

Because we need to stand up and we need to protect and we need to act.

But we've got to look deeply.

So you've got to see that first of all,

We're all capable of being a bit of a twat.

We're all capable of harming others.

It depends on everything that we've,

We are a product of our environment,

Of course,

Genetically and our social conditioning,

Our culture,

Our education,

All of our experiences.

So depending on you know,

I had very loving parents,

They did their best.

It wasn't perfect,

But I know that I'm loved.

So I quite like people because I've had that experience.

So you start to see now there are reasons why people behave as they do.

And you start to see and Thich Nhat Hanh says this,

That man is not our enemy.

It's the energy of fear.

It's the energy of greed.

It's the energy of desire.

And it's really the ignorance is what the Buddha says that we live in such ignorance,

We don't understand that,

You know,

That we're all connected at an energetic level.

So it's like,

You can't hurt someone over there and not hurt yourself as well.

You know,

Many of us,

We haven't quite touched that and it is a practice and it's a training.

But that's why a lot of people focus on meditation to change the world.

Because if we all had that insight,

That we're sort of one big organism floating around the cosmos,

Then we wouldn't be able to separate,

Oh,

I'm just going to set fire to that bit and I'll be fine.

Well,

You won't be actually,

You know,

It's like punching yourself in the face again and again.

But I think just to finish on this point,

The problem is many people say,

Oh,

If we thought that we were punching ourselves in the face,

Would you do it?

But I would say many people would,

Because we're so self destructive.

So you do have to start with this self love,

You have to start by honouring the life that's moving through you.

And then looking to see how we're connected and then trying to honour everything.

You know,

It's really this and not push people out that aren't doing it right,

Because they need the most love and understanding.

They're the ones that really need a big hug.

You know,

Sometimes I think flipping out,

The politicians in the UK is like,

I need to sing them a song.

They need a gong bath.

It's just sad that they have to live this darkness.

You know,

They need they need help.

So yeah,

That's what I think.

I'm both getting emotional and also laughing at this is amazing.

I love that answer.

And I'll share as well for me.

Yeah.

My perspective has actually followed a similar evolution.

I also personally moved from a lot of anger and sadness and fear and desperation driving me to want to change the world to now love and hope and an unshakable faith being my motivations and the driving factors behind my actions,

Right.

But that is my those are my intentions behind it now.

And that's much more sustainable.

Also,

Yes,

It's a great fuel.

Love is the best it is.

And my newfound perspective is also like you said,

Deeply rooted in interconnection and inter being and that everything is so deeply connected and intertwined and it's from that place that we really come to birthing a new world through us and creating a better world through embodiment.

That's why we are able to do that.

That's why that's an effective and powerful approach because of the immense ripple effect we each have and how interconnected we all are and everything is on this planet.

Exactly.

You got it.

There it is.

There it is.

You say it so beautifully.

So Rachel,

This idea of creating a new world through us,

How does that look from your perspective in action and in practice?

Yeah,

Well,

I think you said it there.

It's action practice.

So we talk about thought,

Speech and action.

It's the triple the triple karma.

Triple action is thought,

Speech and action.

So from an energetic point of view,

I'm not a scientist,

But I appreciate scientists who tell us that,

Yeah,

The thoughts you see are an energy.

Energy is like a spectrum and you've got like the gross energy,

Which is like our body,

The things that a table can hit and you think that's solid,

But it's not solid.

It's all a waveform moving at different speeds.

And then you've got,

You know,

Obviously sound,

You've got light and thoughts also are an energy and it's all of it is rippling out,

As you say,

Into the collective consciousness.

So lots of people actually,

They come to Plum Village,

Which is the monastery,

The mindfulness practice center,

Where I sort of live and continue my own practice.

And they have a Q&A session.

And I remember there's this lovely guy and he was like some PhD,

You know,

Very well educated.

I think he worked in water filtration.

He was trying to contribute to a new earth through that,

Which is obviously a very practical,

Positive thing that a role,

You know,

For creating,

I think it was cleaning water in Africa,

Something very noble.

But he was up there and he was asking a question and you could see that,

Bless him,

That penny just hadn't dropped yet.

He was saying,

What can I do?

And they were saying,

Well,

Everything you do is engaged.

We call it engaged Buddhism.

So every thought,

Every speech,

Every action,

You know,

Thinking of somebody and sending them energy of love,

You know,

Somebody who might be suffering,

That is an action.

Smiling at your neighbor when you go outside,

That is an action.

You know,

I was riding down the road the other day and there was a bin bag on the road.

So I just picked it up and took it to the bin.

You know,

It's these simple things that is changing the world.

Everything we do is creating the world every second.

It's just that we're not aware of that.

So yes,

You can go and get a PhD and you can create water systems in Africa or you can,

We need innovation,

We need leadership,

We need all the roles,

But it's just remembering that every single thing you think,

Say and do has an effect.

So is that thing coming from anger,

Blame,

Judgment?

Are we taking care of ourselves?

Like I said,

I'm tired,

So I'm going to go to bed or I could drink a bottle of wine and,

You know,

Kind of like over consume to stay up to go and speak to someone.

It's just like really simple things,

Actually.

Yeah,

It's actually the simplest.

It's the minutiae.

So I could talk more,

But I think you get what I'm saying.

I get it.

And this is where the embodiment comes into play,

Right?

It's living and practicing our values,

Embodying the frequency and the vibration of the world we are trying to create.

It's anchoring in the new world now through our internal and external world.

It's a practice of,

You know,

Acting as if,

Meaning acting as if the new world is already here.

Exactly.

Acting as if we already are the versions of ourselves living in this better world,

Acting as if we are already there,

Embodying our future selves,

Like in the now moment,

For example.

And I feel like as well,

I was thinking about this,

A good place to start,

A recommendation,

If you will,

Is also,

You know,

Asking ourselves regularly,

Are my thoughts and actions congruent with the world I want to see,

Or the values I hold,

Or the life I want to live?

Having that internal discussion with yourself regularly,

I think is a really good place to start.

And also just knowing to your core,

You are having an impact and making a difference and creating change.

And I feel like we can really call this,

Tell me if you agree,

Spiritual activism.

Yes.

Yeah,

I like that.

This is it.

This is it.

And Rachel,

I'd love to know,

What tips and tools do you recommend for this embodiment?

And creating a new world through us and tips and tools for creating a new world and making change without burning out?

Right?

Because the goal here is longevity.

Yeah,

Exactly.

And also,

If we're burning out,

We are just replicating the paradigm that we're trying to change,

Because it really does come from not having any awareness or any love for ourselves,

Really.

It's being driven by the external expectations,

External demands.

And as we know,

The system that's currently mainstream is not designed to serve people on planet.

So we can't follow that.

We have to follow what's going on within,

I'd say,

Within our own hearts,

Within the body,

That's always communicating if we have a chance to listen.

So I think what you've said is perfect.

It's asking these questions.

And it's a full time job,

This inner work.

You know,

Sometimes I think that's my job,

You know,

Because we have to come back to the present moment.

So what we do with the mindfulness practice that I train in,

And we call it continual practice.

So again,

It's not like,

Oh,

I was mindful yesterday for a minute.

It's like,

I remember Oprah Winfrey interviewed Thich Nhat Hanh.

And it always makes me chuckle because she's probably asking this question just for her audience,

Because not everybody,

You know,

Would be aware what Zen is.

Why would they?

But Zen is continual practice.

And she said to him,

Do you,

She was like,

Do you meditate every day?

Like every second,

You know,

But he was very humble.

But really,

That is it.

So I do share and talk about mindfulness as this continual practice.

I practice in the tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh.

It's a Mahayana Buddhist tradition.

And we talk about engaged Buddhism.

So it is about practicing for yourself and for the world.

It is with this aspiration to serve life,

To serve all beings,

Knowing that every thought,

Speech and action does this.

And that's really the foundation of my own work with Wondrous Sound as well,

Which I can speak to.

But the first part of that then is really just to come back to your breath.

So I am speaking at warp speed,

Because I'm a bit excited,

Forgive me.

But it's like,

Ah,

It's like,

And really,

I make a lot of contact with my body these days as well,

I really meet myself physically.

So I think we can be very in the head.

And it's like,

Come back into the body,

Feel the body,

Tell the body,

Show the body that we're listening.

And this is where we need the wisdom to come,

As I say,

Through us,

Through intuition,

Through the heart,

Not from the external world.

That's not the way to go.

So it's coming back to the breath.

And we talk about mindfulness of the body,

It's the first establishment of mindfulness.

And you'll notice that a lot of holistic practices are all based on body work,

Because we talked about energy before,

That's the most gross form of energy,

It's the most tangible that we can work with.

So we start with awareness of the body,

Which starts with awareness of the breath.

And we just say,

For example,

You can start in a sitting posture if you like,

Although you can carry this on when you're walking,

When you're eating,

When you're speaking,

Breathing in,

I know I'm breathing in.

Breathing out,

I know I'm breathing out.

So it's very simple.

And it's beautiful,

Because a lot of our elders who are sort of 80,

They still practice this,

Because it's just your mind and your body are in the same place.

And that place is now,

And you just know that you're breathing in,

And you're breathing out.

And then the second point,

It would move on to being aware of the body as you breathe in,

Noticing any tension and releasing that as you breathe out.

And then you sort of become,

You sort of can go into this trance where you're basically doing deep relaxation all the time,

So that you can be present and regulated and listening to the body so that it has those subtle signals of I'm hungry,

I'm tired,

That doesn't feel in alignment with my values.

And then you've got a chance to pause before you react to a situation and you can actually respond.

This is really the Holy Grail.

So things are happening,

You know,

Shit happens,

It's still going to happen if you're a meditator.

It's just that you might have that breath to notice what the best response could be,

Our highest response,

That's aligned with our values,

Our vision,

Our needs and our limits.

So this is really the training,

This continual training.

And then I work with sound,

Because it can help us,

It's a very accessible way to enter the present moment and to stay there for some time and to relax,

Basically.

And relaxing is the key.

So,

So helpful.

Thank you for that.

And this is,

Like you mentioned,

Where the power of sound healing comes into play a lot,

Because it can help us,

Like you mentioned,

Get into the present moment,

It can help us with nervous system regulation.

And also,

Sound can help us calibrate to the frequency of the new world that we are trying to create.

Oh,

Yeah.

And I also think it's really important to say,

It's not about doing,

Doing,

Doing,

It's about being.

Exactly.

And then being while doing.

Yes,

Exactly.

Exactly.

I also want to share as well,

There's a lot of power in baby steps,

Right?

Taking a day by day can kind of release a lot of overwhelm if you feel overwhelmed,

You know about this,

And also beginning to notice where old stories and limiting beliefs are holding you back and keeping you playing small and begin to notice where other people's expectations and society's expectations are keeping you stuck and holding you back.

Because we make change by showing up differently,

By taking up space,

By being our true authentic selves,

By aligning our actions with our values,

By diving into the unknown,

By moving through life in a way that's in alignment with the world that we are creating.

It's an energy and a frequency and a new way of being.

It is.

Wow.

High five.

High five.

And Rachel,

We each have a part to play,

Right?

Like,

We are each part of the collective and creating a better world takes all of us.

And we've been talking a lot about,

You know,

The individual,

But I just want to bring it now to kind of the collective and co-creation.

Can you share with us a bit about co-creation in the context of creating a new world and what it means to you and also how to put co-creation into practice and how to foster more co-creation in the world?

Yeah,

I love this question.

Thanks for that.

So yeah,

I'd say I'd describe myself as a serial collaborator,

Because being a musician,

You know,

It's what you do.

And before music,

I was in a lot of team sports.

And I love being part of a collective going in the same direction.

I just get a kick out of that.

I just think we really are at our best when we're collaborating.

I really think that.

But again,

It's been a journey for me.

So I did.

I've done a lot of teamwork.

I've worked as a musician with lots of people.

And in that space,

You are very much in the present moment.

It's very intuitive.

And you're creating something out of these complementary gifts.

So that's one thing I always say,

Complementary gifts.

We're not meant to be good at everything.

We're good at what we're,

You know,

I think we all have natural gifts and talents that we enjoy.

We lose time in that space.

We're in a flow state.

And you know,

The school system may have its reasons for existing as it does.

But I personally don't agree with it.

I don't think it should be an effort.

I think it's just about how we channel our gifts.

Yeah,

And then work together.

So you get kind of into that zone with musicians.

So for example,

The last band I was in,

I worked with a brilliant being who was like,

He was like music theory,

You know,

Times a million.

He understood so much.

And I understand nothing about music theory.

Okay,

So I would write something,

I would tune my guitar to like what my heart was feeling.

And you know,

People say,

What chord is that?

I don't know.

And I don't care,

Actually.

But he did know.

And he was able to craft,

You know,

This beautiful arrangement underneath what I'd written.

And he was also very good with maths.

So physics,

And he was able to create this,

It was like electro folk.

So that was a great,

Just an example of co-creation,

Where I was in my role at my best,

He was in his role at his best.

And together,

We create something beautiful that we couldn't have made without each other.

So I'm really grateful to that and to him.

And I learned a lot about co-creating like that.

When I went to the monastery,

Because even though I loved it,

But I was like,

Right,

It's time to,

It's time to get on the mat.

So there,

In this tradition,

Which is also Vietnamese tradition,

So we've got to understand their collectivist society.

So it's the opposite of our individual approach.

And there,

You really do train to be what we say a cell in the sangha body.

So it's like you're part of a big body.

And you learn to harmonize and to work together,

Like the left hand and the right hand,

Okay.

So that's really beautiful.

And I say when I was pot washing,

And there's a real joy that comes from everybody has their role,

We've kind of like little ants around the site.

So someone's cleaning the toilets,

One's washing pots,

Someone's cooking,

Someone's sweeping the meditation hall.

And together,

We sort of co-create the retreat,

You know,

And people actually pay to learn how to do that,

Because they're learning to be mindful while they're washing the dishes to actually enjoy the feeling of the soap.

Instead of like thinking this is a chore.

It's I know,

This is your life,

You know,

Enjoy it.

And you do get a buzz,

I noticed in myself,

When you're helping when you're part of something bigger,

There is this I don't know if it's a,

You know,

Oxytocin surge,

But it's,

You know,

We're meant to help each other.

So you get that.

But then over the years,

I'll be honest,

When I've lived in communities,

And I have quite a handful,

I started to notice that sometimes this utopian dream,

Okay,

Where we say,

Well,

You know,

There's no hierarchy,

And we're all valuable,

And we're going to create this new earth.

It's a nice idea.

But again,

We can sort of give up everything we have,

But we've still got this internalized capitalism model in us,

Patriarchy,

Dominance,

And even some harm can come out,

You know,

There needs to be a safeguarding element as well,

In these spaces.

So some of the work that I've developed with Wondrous Sound is anchoring mindfulness,

And this aspiration of working together.

But what I see is,

We really need everybody in their power.

Okay,

So the first few workshops I run,

It's about self awareness,

Self care,

Self advocacy,

It's knowing when to say no,

It's knowing that it's okay to say no,

So that we don't burn out trying to create utopia,

That we can really take care of our energy,

Communicate our needs,

Our limits,

So that we're working as one body,

But we also have a body,

You know,

We have a nervous system,

We have limits,

It's no self sacrifice,

I don't believe in that personally.

Okay,

So I there and that's something we need to be aware of in spiritual communities,

And charity sector,

Any of that work,

Martyrdom,

No,

That's not for me.

So you've got that.

Then I talk about self awareness,

Self care,

Self expression.

So this is about then expressing our gifts.

So for me,

I love music and sound.

So that's my thang.

Other people,

It might be gardening,

You know,

It might be sewing,

It might be anything.

It's all it's all really important and beautiful.

And then I say,

Yeah,

Then how can we take that empowerment of having care of our nervous systems and our boundaries,

Healthy boundaries,

Having our gifts,

And then working with other people who share our values,

Have aligned vision,

We have the same vision,

Because,

You know,

We should have our own vision,

But they aligned,

They're going in the same direction.

And complimentary gifts,

Like I said,

With my bandmate to support each other.

And then yeah,

These healthy boundaries,

And then great compassion,

Because we are going to mess up.

So you know,

We're not perfect,

We don't need to be perfect.

We shouldn't expect ourselves to be perfect.

We shouldn't expect others to be perfect.

But we do need safety,

And we do need alignment.

And then I would say,

You don't have to work with everyone.

Again,

In the new world,

Like,

You're not going to like everyone,

But you can love them,

And you can honour them,

And you can co-exist with them.

So again,

In my worldview,

Which is,

You know,

It's been built over time,

And I am,

You know,

Attached to it a little bit,

But I do think it's okay to have preferences,

You know,

It's just that we learn how to be alongside each other,

And then work with the right people in the right way.

Yeah,

That's how I see it.

Man,

I love that answer.

So,

So much.

Thank you for that.

And,

You know,

It's just really important to talk about this,

Because creating a new world is a collaborative process.

It's a co-creative process.

So we need to learn how to do this,

Right?

We are doing it together.

We do have to learn it,

Yeah.

We have to learn how to do this.

We are all doing it together,

Working together,

Moving forward together,

Inspiring each other,

Lifting each other up,

Helping each other,

Learning from each other,

And,

You know,

Mixing our frequencies together.

Because we're all connected,

We're all part of the collective,

And the collective is each of us,

Right?

We're really,

You know,

Inseparable when you break it down,

Especially on the quantum level.

So co-creation is everything.

And I also,

Just personally,

I really want to point out,

I think it's important to say,

It's important for me to say that humans aren't doing this alone.

We are also co-creating a new world with the unseen realms as well.

We are co-creating with the universe,

With Earth,

With our ancestors,

You know,

With our higher selves,

With our souls,

With spirit,

With the angels,

With so many higher vibrational beings.

Like,

We are so,

So supported in this process.

I,

Like,

Can't even put it into words.

And realizing that and really coming into that knowing has been a huge part of my journey.

And I also feel like it's a huge relief knowing that we have help in this.

Yeah,

Thanks for saying that.

That's so important.

That is,

Yes,

That's so important.

And it is such a relief,

Isn't it?

I find as well.

I think that's what leads to burnout as well,

Is that thinking,

I have to do it all.

It's all on my shoulders.

And the mindset shift for me has been,

Satish Kumar actually said this once,

And I was at his feet,

Actually,

And I was,

He was giving a talk.

And everybody in the audience was just stunned because his energy is so powerful and beautiful.

And he was just like,

I'm 83 and I've never burnt out.

And the reason was because he was like,

I just contribute.

He's just contributing,

You know.

He's just channeling,

Like you say,

All of this support,

This all around.

Life wants to be well.

We've got these bodies in this moment,

So we can use them.

But when we're listening from within,

We are channeling.

So I see it.

Energy.

It's not you.

It's not you.

It's just you're like the vessel.

You know what I mean?

And then when we do it in that way,

It's such a relief because it's not you and you can take care of yourself and you give what you can.

We can't control the outcome,

Which is actually,

Again,

A great blessing because we wouldn't even be able to imagine how incredible it can be because of our limiting beliefs and our conditioning.

So yeah,

When we see it in that way,

Channeling and just contributing instead of like,

I have to achieve this,

You know,

Take the I out and take the achieve out and then you're all right.

Yes,

Exactly.

And I'm so happy that you resonate with that.

That's just been that's been a huge part of my journey.

And so I just wanted to bring that in.

And so Rachel,

I'm really curious your perspective on this.

After everything we've talked about,

How do we grapple with the fact that on the one hand,

Things are changing for the better,

Consciousness is evolving.

You know,

It's a uniquely fertile time for creating a better world,

You know,

In human history and the planet's history.

It's already started.

The ball is rolling and there is momentum.

But at the exact same time,

There is a lot of fear and chaos and control and war and killing and death and destruction.

And it's like a really stark juxtaposition,

Right?

So how do we grapple with and reckon with all of that in both extremes?

And also,

What do you think the fear,

You know,

And the chaos and the control and destruction are trying to teach us,

If anything?

Yeah,

It's a great question.

And it's very true that we are sitting in these extremes.

But the way I see it is we are in an evolution crisis.

Yeah,

That is the way I see it.

And I don't devalue any loss of life.

I don't sit here on my medication cushion and think,

Oh,

It's fine,

You know,

Because there will be a new earth and it's going to come through me.

And it's like,

No,

It's awful.

You know,

The suffering is immense.

And we need to witness that.

And we need to grieve and we need to act.

But we need to use that.

It's like the mud.

Thich Nhat Hanh talks about the lotus grows out of the mud.

We need the mud to grow.

So unfortunately,

I think it's true.

If you look,

And if I look in my own life,

When was the catalyst for change?

It was when I was in the mud.

You know,

It was like,

Like you say,

When I had the breakdown,

I realised it wasn't working.

And we are having a collective breakdown.

There's no denying it.

And actually,

Unfortunately,

Because of the choices that we made as humanity,

We're inheriting the karma of our actions.

So,

You know,

The systems that we set up were never created to serve life.

They were created to extract,

To exploit for the benefit of a few people who sadly haven't touched the wonder of our interconnected nature yet.

Otherwise,

They wouldn't have done that.

So at some point,

You know,

It's going to crack.

So it is cracking.

And as we've got this surge of awakening and collective vision,

Shall we say,

Of course,

Then the people who are in power,

Who are like,

Oh my God,

I'm losing control.

It's a natural reflex just to just to crush,

To suffocate,

To try and to try and keep things as they are in this separation consciousness in,

You know,

The kind of competition capitalists extract.

So yeah,

I look at it.

Of course,

It's awful to see.

And we need to,

As I say,

Witness,

Grieve,

Act.

But I do think it's part of the process.

And we just need to see it as like,

We're in the tunnel.

We can see the light,

We're in the tunnel,

We got to keep going.

You know,

They say,

You're in hell,

Keep going.

Like,

If it's making you depressed and anxious,

Then you need to get help,

Not to just not be anxious,

But to learn how to move that energy,

Learn how to feel,

Learn how to do something to contribute,

Because every single person does matter.

And every single person can contribute to this new way of being in a very simple and dramatic way.

So it's really for me,

It's about helping people,

Yes,

See their own power within this very transformative moment in human history,

In life's history,

Should we say,

And just,

Yeah,

Use it as a catalyst for change.

Thank you for sharing that.

I'm like getting emotional over here.

That's a really powerful perspective.

And I totally agree.

Yeah,

You know,

Earth school,

Right?

We're all in earth school.

Oh,

Yeah,

Yeah.

Really intense.

And it's really always been about the full spectrum of experience.

And,

You know,

In order for our souls to learn and grow and evolve,

And,

You know,

That's not easy.

So let's recognize that.

And I do really,

Really believe that a lot of the lessons that humanity is learning right now boiled down to learning that we are all connected and that everything is connected.

Like that's a core lesson that humanity needs to learn.

We need to learn that.

Yeah.

And I totally agree that all of this is coming up to the surface to be witnessed and felt and seen and also transmuted and integrated.

And collectively,

I offer this perspective,

You know,

We have an opportunity right now to choose differently and respond differently and act differently than we have in the past.

I do believe a better world is inevitable.

Many people believe that I am one of them,

But the speed with which we get there and the ease with which we get there is up to us.

Very good.

I for one,

Hope that we choose like unity and love sooner rather than later.

That'd be nice.

Wouldn't that be nice?

And Rachel,

There's a channeled quote by David Spangler that I keep coming back to that I want to share with you that I think is really,

Really relevant.

Yeah.

So the quote is,

Do you fear the collapse of your civilization as it proves inadequate to the changes happening in the world?

Far better to fear the collapse of hope.

Far better to fear the collapse of joy.

Far better to be alarmed at the collapse of imagination and creativity,

For these are the qualities that you need to change your direction in the world.

Wow.

I'm getting chills.

Full body chills.

Am I right?

Yeah,

This is like emotional.

You have a little tear.

I know.

There's our blueprint and our roadmap to creating a better world right there.

Hope,

Joy,

Imagination and creativity.

And I also want to throw in there love as well.

Throw that in there.

Yeah.

Yeah,

This is it.

It's these childlike qualities.

It is joy,

Is creativity,

Is vision.

I mean,

If we think about it,

That's what creating a new world in it.

But the thing is,

We always are creating the world.

This is what we need to remember.

And again,

I keep going back to Thich Nhat Hanh,

But he does say some good things.

So he says like,

You know,

Your life is a work of art.

So yeah,

You can write a song,

You can write a poem,

You can paint a picture,

But your life is art.

And our world is a piece of art.

So in that sense,

It's getting back to our creative capacity that we all have.

And the wonder of being,

The wonder of being alive.

So beautiful.

And Rachel,

There's one more passage that I want to share with you that has been on my heart lately that I want to get your thoughts on related to this discussion.

And this is from Marissa from Star Seeded.

The passage is,

To repair and rebuild new systems and structures that will strengthen the infrastructure of the new earth ideals,

We first have to soften and accept the greater role of a system on society.

Structures hold the deepest karmic contracts.

We release outdated contracts with gratitude for their teachings and role in evolution.

It is in that space of forgiveness and acceptance where we can create a healthy space to rebuild.

The burn it down mentality is essential to harnessing the personal power to be a part of the change we wish to see.

However,

When we try to rebuild in that same frequency field without doing the alchemy of acceptance,

We can create a volatile space or recreation of that which is not healed.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And this is why it's a leap in consciousness that it's not like,

Oh,

You know,

I made the house the wrong dimensions,

Knock it down,

Build it again.

We've got to leap in consciousness.

We've got to understand,

Like I said at the beginning,

That we're all capable of causing harm with the right conditions.

We can't create a new world based on blame and more separation.

This is what they call,

I think,

The wheel of suffering,

You know,

Samsara,

The eye for an eye.

That's just the same frequency as the earth as it is today.

And that's the bit that's got to change.

So I think it's like our personal healing as well.

We often say when you're working with trauma responses,

For example,

You need to understand or coping mechanisms that that was created as a response to keep you safe.

And we can't blame that.

We have to thank it.

Like you said,

Thank you for keeping me safe.

I don't need you anymore.

It's not in service to my life or the world.

So I would like to try a different way.

And really,

It's the same.

And it really is this,

You know,

Within and without micro and the macro,

We have to approach healing our world just in the same way we approach healing within ourselves.

And that is only going to come from this very inclusive,

Holding,

Understanding,

Love and deep looking.

Yeah.

And forgiveness,

Like you say,

But it's not it's not a word.

It's we've got to get to that energy within ourselves through a practice.

And then from that energy,

Create something else.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I totally agree.

And as someone myself that has been in that burn it down mentality,

You know,

Regarding vital systems,

Most of my life,

It is such a good reminder that we cannot build the new from that same mentality and frequency.

And I just love that practice of,

You know,

We release what no longer serves us with gratitude.

And yeah,

What a powerful practice.

That is that is deep.

And that's the that's the depth we need to go for real change.

Yeah.

The real change.

Yes.

Rachel,

Thank you so much for being here today and sharing yourself with us.

I just loved this conversation so much.

And I love you.

And thank you so much for being here.

Thanks a lot.

Yeah,

No,

I'm really psyched up now could run a marathon now with that energy.

I have one final important question for you.

What is your vision for the future of humanity and the earth?

Yeah,

Well,

I was thinking about this.

I mean,

Harmony is the word that I think I was born into this lifespan with,

You know,

To bring in my own life in the world as best I can,

As well as I say imperfectly.

But I think it's this approach of how can we live in greater harmony with ourselves,

With each other and with the earth?

And I think that that is possible.

And it requires this deep listening to ourselves,

This acceptance,

This forgiveness,

This love.

And then we can mirror that out to others so that we can create social well-being.

So it's this real inner well-being,

Social well-being,

Economic well-being,

Planetary well-being.

It's it's a self-fulfilling prophecy then.

But it has to start within with this awareness,

With this softness.

And then really,

I feel actually everything is here.

As I say,

We've just sort of gone down a wrong path.

But,

You know,

The many people were living in harmony with the earth.

Some people still do and with each other.

And we just got to get get back to that with I mean,

It's kind of beautiful,

Isn't it?

With the technology we have,

It's like this ancient future as well.

It's like not being against anything,

Just really what can we bring into this world to live in harmony with ourselves,

Others and the earth.

Together,

We are releasing old,

Outdated stories and ways of being and writing a new story.

Together,

We are creating a new and better world for all.

We were made for these times and we are in it together.

Remember,

The new earth is a frequency and it's available to us now in this moment.

So we'll end today with a special song from Rachel to help us embody the frequencies of the beautiful world we are co-creating.

So sit back,

Relax and let the sound flow through you.

You are capable of finding your way And if it feels hard And if it feels lonely And if it feels hard Oh,

Come on and show me And then hold yourself So you can hold your world So you can hold your world You've got to hold yourself So we can hold the world Capable of finding our way You are capable of finding our way You are capable of finding our way You are capable of finding your way And if it feels hard And if it feels lonely And if it feels hard Oh,

Come on and show me You've got to love yourself So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world So we can love the world Cause we are Capable of finding our way You are Capable of finding your way You are Capable of finding your way We are Capable