How To Be Vulnerable

Marlee welcomes back Sam Adams, Healer, Leader, and Soul Alchemist, for a vulnerable conversation about relationships and how to create more honest, open, and authentic connections. Marlee and Sam share the story of their friendship and how their friendship fell apart and then came back together. Sam also shares from her own experiences about how to change codependent patterns in relationships and how to have difficult conversations. Marlee and Sam also discuss the root causes preventing us from being more vulnerable and how to overcome these barriers and connect with each other from our hearts! DISCLAIMER: explicit language used!

Transcript

Welcome to the Shifting with Marlee podcast.

I'm Marlee.

Thank you for joining me wherever you are.

All that I ask of you,

The listener,

Is to have an open mind and an open heart.

And in return,

I offer you myself.

Today we're going to talk about relationships and how to have more authentic and honest and vulnerable connections.

Because as humans,

We are meant to move through life together.

We are meant to be in relationship with one another.

We are meant to be in community.

We aren't meant to do this earth journey alone.

We need each other.

But relationships are also hard and messy and emotional and complicated and ever-changing and evolving.

And we often bring our own fears and insecurities into our relationships and also often hide our true selves or our true emotions.

But the truth is,

It's through relationships that we are forced to grow and evolve and get to know ourselves on a deeper level.

So we're going to unpack all of this today with the intention of learning how to connect with each other deeper and more from our heart space.

Because I truly believe it's these deep heart-to-heart connections we are all really seeking beneath the surface.

Here to help us navigate this journey today is my friend Sam Adams.

Sam is a healer,

A lion-hearted leader and lover,

Generational curse-breaker and soul alchemist helping to shift the consciousness of humanity by healing herself and empowering and encouraging others to do the same.

You may remember Sam from early on in this podcast.

Sam joined us in Episode 5,

Gratitude,

And Episode 7,

Self-Love Will Save the World from back in 2020.

Welcome back,

Sam.

Hi,

Marlee.

Happy to be here.

Sam,

I know you've been going through a trial by fire,

If you will,

These past few years through the relationships in your life.

I know you've learned a lot,

And I know you have a lot of wisdom to share from your experiences.

So thank you for being willing to share with us today.

I'm really excited to share this with people.

I will say I'm a little nervous.

It feels really vulnerable to be sharing it with a wider community of people.

But the lessons that I've learned through this trial by fire,

Which is what I actually have been calling it myself too,

Has been so,

So liberating and empowering.

And Sam,

If we want to see more honest and open and vulnerable relationships in the world,

We have to be willing to go first and lead the way,

Right?

So I thought we'd model that by getting really vulnerable and having a really honest conversation today.

Let's do it.

And I thought we'd start by talking about the story of our friendship,

You and I.

So let's dive right in.

The high level overview for everyone listening is Sam and I were good friends for over 10 years.

And one day we sat down and had a really difficult conversation,

And Sam said she needed space from our friendship.

And then we didn't speak or see each other for more than two years.

And Sam and I just recently reconnected a few months ago.

So Sam,

Do you want to maybe share more about what happened from your perspective?

You know,

At the time,

I feel like I wasn't super well equipped to handle the situation,

Meaning that time we sat down and had that conversation,

I didn't really anticipate how it was going to go.

I just knew that I needed space.

And you know,

It was a really challenging conversation.

And I felt like I didn't have answers that you were asking for.

And I feel like maybe we both found those answers for ourselves through that space and have been able to have a much more open conversation about,

At least for myself,

Coming back and reaching back out to you.

I feel like I was able to give a little more context to where that need came from and myself,

And also to honor,

You know,

Your needs as well.

And after having that space,

I think we can meet each other in a way that's more true.

Like I feel like I can show up better and give you what you need and also give myself what I need,

Which I don't think was possible toward the end of our friendship.

Because actually,

The thing I reached back out with the phrase,

Which stuck out to me when we had that original conversation,

Was that I felt like you needed a little too much for me at the time,

And you felt like I wasn't giving you enough at all.

And so I just think that is really interesting,

Because both of those things can be true.

And I think that in itself kind of spoke to why we needed that space and so that we could find those things in ourselves to give ourselves what we needed and meet from a healthier place.

And can you just share a little bit about what led,

From your perspective,

From your end to that conversation before we took that friendship pause,

Kind of the journey to get to that point where you felt like you needed space?

Yeah.

I actually haven't thought about that in a while.

I think I started noticing feeling a bit drained after our interactions.

And you know,

That's not anything you were doing,

Necessarily.

I don't think I had good boundaries.

I wasn't very centered in my own energy.

And you're extremely passionate and have a lot to say,

And that's beautiful.

And it's something I love about you.

But I think it started being a little bit too much for me when I wasn't super grounded in my own energy and taking up my own space in the world.

And yeah,

I started feeling drained and like I needed a little space to recenter myself,

I guess.

I'm getting emotional.

Thank you so much for sharing.

I love that we can be really honest with each other now.

I think that's really important.

And I'll just share from my perspective,

Because I reflected on this before we recorded today.

And before we took that friendship break a couple of years ago,

In retrospect,

I felt we were stuck in this repeating cycle where we would kind of pendulum swing.

Because we would be really,

Really close and talking all the time and hanging out weekly and genuinely supporting each other.

And then on the other end of the spectrum,

We would go through these periods where you would kind of pull away and be distant,

And we wouldn't really see each other for weeks or months at a time.

And we wouldn't really be speaking very much during this time.

There was just kind of some not great energetics happening that I think we could both feel.

And I felt back then that wherever we were at in that pendulum swing,

At any given time was really determined by you.

I didn't feel like I had control over it.

I felt for years our friendship was a roller coaster that I really couldn't control.

And back then,

That inconsistency and that roller coaster-ness of it really bothered me.

And this was all really happening.

I want to point this out.

I think it's important to say beneath the surface.

This is all happening beneath the surface.

This isn't something that you and I were openly addressing with each other or talking about or being honest about.

So in retrospect,

There was this emotional charge,

I think,

To our friendship,

At least from my end,

Where the things you did or didn't do really got to me,

Really got under my skin.

And I partially,

I think,

Looking back,

Tied up my emotional well-being and happiness to our friendship.

So in those cycles,

In those periods of time where you would be kind of distant,

I really let it negatively affect me.

I was really hurt by it,

Like really personally hurt by it,

Even if it had nothing to do with me,

Right?

Even if you were going through your own thing,

I was hurt by it.

And I remember the few months before we met up to have that difficult conversation where we put our friendship on pause.

It was one of those time periods where you were distant.

So I remember going into that conversation already beneath the surface being angry and hurt because we hadn't seen each other or barely spoken right in a long time before that.

But at the same time,

Even though all of that was happening,

I was also totally thrown off guard that night when you took the conversation toward pausing our friendship.

I was not expecting that at all.

And I think for me,

When I reflect on our friendship,

Even though it really wasn't serving me anymore and probably wasn't serving you either from everything you've shared,

Because from my end,

It ended up being more of like a source of stress and anxiety than joy.

And I didn't feel supported by you anymore,

Which you shared because we talked about that when we had that difficult conversation.

I was still clinging to the friendship.

I had this deep fear of losing you as a friend because for so long,

You were one of my most important and treasured friendships.

And I relied on you for emotional support and validation.

And in that way,

I was giving my power away in the friendship as well.

But when I look back,

It's so obvious now that there was some codependency happening and that I can see now very clearly in hindsight.

And I also had a deep-rooted fear of change and a fear of rejection that was at play as well.

So when we had that conversation that night and you said you needed space,

All of that was triggered in me.

And that's also why I never would have made that decision myself.

I never would have paused our friendship myself,

Even though it wasn't healthy anymore,

I think for either of us.

But here's the wild part,

Sam.

Within days of us kind of going our separate ways after that conversation,

It kind of all became so clear so quickly.

I could see it all from a new perspective,

And I knew it was the right decision.

It felt like a weight had been lifted.

There was a total energetic shift that I could feel.

And those years apart,

Like you mentioned,

It allowed me to start diving into those fears within myself and witnessing my own patterns and my own habits,

And it allowed me to find kind of my own internal compass and stop seeking that external validation and giving my power away in relationships.

And it allowed me to become much more independent,

Which I'm happy about,

And to turn inward instead of outward when I needed guidance.

And that's why in hindsight,

Even though it was painful,

And even though it was challenging and difficult,

I am so thankful we took that time apart,

And I'm so thankful that you had the courage to start that difficult conversation and kind of stand firm in your truth.

I am honestly very,

Very grateful.

You just hit on so many important things.

I wanted to speak to the fact when we had that conversation,

I kept saying,

I know this is for both of our highest good and our highest good is everything you just spoke to.

Having the space to face our human selves and our fears and pains and to be left alone with those things so that we can alchemize them into more honesty and truth and power and really getting to know ourselves more deeply and love ourselves and honor ourselves.

I think at the root of codependency,

There's this self-abandonment to maintain connection and that's not good for anyone.

And it compromises the love in the relationship.

The love kind of devolves over time into resentment and pain and a lot of what you just spoke to because I felt like you deserve to have your needs met,

But I also at the same time was so resentful because my whole life and I realized this after going through this pattern and a lot of my relationships was that I did provide that emotional support for everyone,

For everyone,

You know,

And affirmed everyone and was with everyone in their pain.

And again,

Something you spoke to earlier,

A lot of the time these things aren't conscious for people.

So it's not something,

You know,

Anyone's giving you credit for.

They're just their emotional support person.

And that comes at a serious cost to whoever's doing that,

To your self-worth,

To your ability to speak the truth honestly,

To be an integrity,

To be in your power.

And for me to reclaim those things,

I needed the space to be left alone with my own fears and my own pain and my own feeling of loneliness.

I think I felt since I was a child.

So it's not easy,

But it's so worth it.

It's so worth it.

It is.

And just to give a positive end to the story,

I think our friendship now feels totally different to me.

There's no longer that emotional charge.

And I feel we're much more honest and open now.

Totally.

I will say too,

It still feels the same in a good way.

When we reconnected,

I feel like we picked up where we left off.

And I noticed in myself an ability to be more true,

To be a better friend to you,

Which I think is what you wanted the whole time.

When we allow those fears to take place and allow them to transform,

We actually get what we were always looking for.

You're so right.

And I want to unpack a lot of what you just said,

Sam.

And I know since reconnecting,

You shared with me and you just shared about it a little bit,

But I want to dive into it deeper,

How there was a pattern that you saw in our friendship that once we took our break and we're no longer friends,

You actually saw playing out and repeating in a lot of your relationships.

So can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Yeah.

It's been so fun.

That's sarcasm.

I don't know that I saw it as a pattern right away.

It all started unraveling for me at the end of 2021.

And the fact that I know the timing just speaks to how intense this period of time in my life was because I don't normally pay attention to that.

But in November of 2021,

I started noticing this pattern of people-pleasing,

Of generally not feeling safe in my interactions with people.

I think this became more noticeable at that time because I was more present in my life than I had ever been.

I was finally working at a job that I felt aligned with and was excited to be in and felt like I could grow.

I was in a relationship with someone that I loved with my whole heart.

I was invested.

I had a stake in my life finally,

Which was new for me.

I never fully committed to anything before.

And I think unconsciously that was because I didn't feel safe in the world.

Because I couldn't manage,

I didn't have the skill set.

So I started noticing these patterns in every aspect of my life.

So at work first,

Because I work with people mainly,

I'm kind of the face of the school that I work at.

People can be emotional.

I'm kind of receiving people.

And if people are unhappy,

I just felt very ill-equipped to deal with it.

I would take on people's anger.

I would take on their shame.

Anything that was directed at me,

Whether or not it was my fault,

Felt like my fault.

And I was always trying to manage that subconsciously my whole life.

So fully stepping into the world more made it much more apparent.

These subconscious things became more conscious.

And then a little bit later in the year,

My partner at the time started having some pretty serious mental health issues.

And the situation kind of reached an extreme place,

Which was very challenging at the time.

But also a blessing because it gave context to these things for me.

I could see these patterns that I'd lived with my entire life.

So with my relationship,

I started to notice when he would start to have emotional outbursts from time to time,

And it started to increase.

And I noticed myself trying to manage that.

It's funny,

These subconscious patterns,

When you get to the root of them,

It's humbling because I had been on a healing journey for a really long time.

And some of the stuff that started to come up,

I was like,

Oh no,

Not me.

I'm not a people pleaser.

I'm not an enabler.

I'm not a control freak.

I'm not a control freak in the sense that I was trying to literally manage the whole world around me because I wasn't comfortable with other people's pain.

Other people's pain felt like a threat to me.

So I managed it.

I compromised myself.

I would do things in the world around me to make sure everyone else was okay because then I was okay.

But that is not sustainable at all.

It's so exhausting.

It's so draining and you can't be yourself,

Which is what I've been trying to get back to this whole time since I started my healing journey 10 years ago.

And so I feel like everything I had been healing kind of was alchemized through this,

Breaking these patterns.

These were the root,

You know?

Yeah.

So it was everywhere in my life,

My job,

My most intimate relationships.

Through that breakup,

Because I changed through that breakup,

I started seeing those patterns in my family as well.

And again,

Because I had changed,

I wasn't changing myself in certain situations where I would have in the past to make other people feel okay or to kind of stop people from being angry or hurt or projecting that onto me.

You were showing up differently.

Yeah.

I was showing up differently and people's reactions were different.

And it kind of showed me why I developed those patterns to begin with.

It was really,

Really hard,

Not going to lie,

Really heartbreaking.

And there was a deep period of grief that I went through,

Not just through my breakup,

But seeing how I was not met in so many ways my whole life that I needed from a really young age.

And that's not to like blame my parents or anything.

I think people do the best they can and it's not like anything super extreme happens.

They just couldn't meet me in the way I needed.

But the healing part is starting to meet yourself in those places,

To meet yourself in that deep fucking loneliness and be with yourself there.

Or when people get mad,

To reinforce that I didn't do anything wrong.

It's not my fault.

And all of these things,

There are so many places if you go to the root where you need to reparent yourself in a lot of ways.

Sam,

Thank you so much for sharing.

That is so powerful.

And I think there's some really important lessons there about how our relationships are mirrors for our own healing and how you're really can't escape the work.

You can only avoid it for so long.

Yeah,

There's no escape.

You cannot escape it,

No.

And I think it's a really good practice to bring it back to yourself.

If something's coming up in your life,

Always bring it back to yourself.

That's a very codependent tendency is to blame the other person or judge the other person.

If something you're not happy with in your life,

It's someone else's fault.

You're responsible for yourself,

Period.

Period.

Yeah.

Boom.

Mic drop.

And I actually want to talk about codependency a little bit more.

So let's dive into that.

We talked about how it was showing up in our relationship and then you observed codependent patterns and other relationships in your life.

And I think there's different levels of codependency.

It's definitely a spectrum for sure.

And I think some level of codependency in relationships is way more common than people realize.

Oh,

Yeah.

So can you share a little bit more about what you've learned about codependency these past few years from your experiences and perhaps also how to recognize codependency and signs to look out for so people can bring some awareness to their own lives?

Yeah,

Absolutely.

And I'm by no means an expert.

This is just from my own experience.

I will say I think the term was coined to identify people in relationship that where one person was an addict and one person was an enabler.

So I think that was where the term was originally coined.

There's a lot of nuance to it.

And it's not always that extreme because it's,

You know,

An alcoholic and an enabler sounds kind of extreme.

It's not always that extreme.

It definitely is a spectrum.

When people talk about 3D paradigms and 5D paradigms,

After I walked through the fire,

I'm convinced that codependency is a 3D paradigm and divine union,

Inner union with ourselves first and then meeting another person from that place is the 5D paradigm of love.

Yes.

I spoke a little bit about some of the energies that I found at the core in my own experience,

Which are not taking responsibility for yourself and compromising yourself to maintain connection.

And I will speak to my relationship again because I thought this was a powerful reminder or perspective,

I guess.

My whole life,

I had developed these patterns from a young age to maintain connection,

Right?

And then I do my own healing,

Finally able to fall in love.

Something I didn't think,

Like,

You know,

I didn't know if I'd get there.

And it's like a deeper love than I felt most of my life.

And then he can't meet me.

And I was given a choice.

Am I going to do this again?

Am I going to repeat these patterns again to maintain connection or am I going to choose myself this time?

And am I going to stay connected to my heart this time?

And that,

I think,

Was the crux of breaking out of these patterns.

Granted,

It's still a practice.

But some of the stuff you spoke to earlier to,

You know,

Needing to be affirmed or needing someone to help you through your emotions,

Obviously,

We all need human connection and But in a way where you're not fully taking responsibility for your emotions or needing someone to affirm who you are,

Your value,

Really like a lack of self-worth at the core or a fear of rejection and abandonment.

Those are really big.

The personal expression can be different for people.

But I think those core wounds are kind of at the root.

And I think most people feel that way.

And I will say one more thing,

Too.

It's a subtle energy.

It's subconscious.

You know,

It's not always so blatant.

It's really where we're meeting each other when we don't want to go any deeper,

When we're triggered or we don't want to change those places in ourselves that feel that way and the relationships that allow us to stay that way.

That's codependent.

We're getting to the root cause today.

I love it.

That is so helpful,

Sam.

Thank you so much.

And I think a lot of these patterns in relationships like codependency also result from giving our power away in relationships.

Like in our friendship previously,

I already mentioned by relying on you for emotional support and validation,

I was giving my power away.

And so recognizing and bringing awareness to where and when we're doing this is the first step to changing that pattern.

Absolutely.

Self-awareness is key for a lot of things.

And noticing when we're judging other people,

Too,

Because that's where we can take our power back.

It keeps coming back to taking responsibility for ourselves.

Yeah.

So Sam,

From your experience,

Back to friendships for a minute.

Now that you've got a lot of experience in this,

What do you think are the signs to look out for to know when it may be time to take space in a friendship?

I think if you feel like you need space,

That's a good sign.

I think if you don't want to be around someone,

That's usually a good sign.

I think if you're feeling resentful or hurt,

Or you get anxious in their presence,

I think if you are judging them or complaining about them to other people,

You're not being a good friend either.

And that's usually a sign that you have your own healing to do.

If you're pulling away unconsciously,

If you notice yourself not wanting to make plans,

Again,

Self-awareness is really big.

Because if we don't notice these things,

We will end up needing to take space.

But I think if we catch them soon enough,

We can have an honest conversation.

And if the other person is open and willing to grow and wants to maintain the relationship,

I think it's possible to catch it in time.

But if you don't pay attention to those things,

Then in my experience,

Maybe a little space will be needed for a time.

Yeah,

You're so right.

I totally agree with all that,

Especially when that bitterness and resentment sets in beneath the surface.

Such a key sign.

And I also want to point out when things start to get competitive,

That judgment,

But also that competition.

And when you can't be truly happy for the other person,

Or you feel like the person can't be truly happy for you,

Those are also signs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think you and I,

Sam,

Are a testament to space and time away in a friendship can really be a good thing.

And all relationships go through cycles,

And that's okay,

Right?

And to allow our relationships to morph and change and evolve with time as we change and evolve with time,

Right?

And I think the key really is,

Like you mentioned,

Self-awareness,

Honesty,

And being open about where you're at and what you're feeling and standing in your truth regardless of how it's received and trusting in your own knowing.

Yeah.

Well,

I think a lot of times people are afraid of letting things die and be reborn.

I mean,

Things can come back around.

We're a testament to that,

But people really are scared to go through the process of change.

It's a death process.

You're so right.

And that actually brings me to my next question,

Which is,

What do you think are some of the things holding people back from being more honest and open and vulnerable in their relationships?

They're afraid to let go.

It's fear at the core.

It's a fear of not being met,

Not being loved in those deeper places,

And a fear of what will happen if they do say their truth,

That maybe it's time for something to end.

Again,

Core wounds,

Abandonment,

Rejection,

And unworthiness.

Worthiness is huge as well.

So let's summarize,

Abandonment,

Rejection,

Worthiness.

Yes.

And I think also people get stuck in repeating patterns in relationships,

Which can make it difficult to change dynamics.

And that's especially true with family,

I found,

Especially difficult to change dynamics with family members.

I think people also avoid conflict in relationships,

Which prevents them from speaking their truth.

And conflict is uncomfortable,

Right?

Having difficult conversations is uncomfortable.

Speaking your truth can be uncomfortable,

And people don't like to be uncomfortable.

People avoid discomfort,

Generally speaking,

But conflict can also be really healthy and lead to growth,

Right,

And lead to a better relationship.

And conflict can be healthy if all parties involved are willing to listen and kind of drop their egos and their pride.

And I think another thing that holds people back from speaking their truth as well is people-pleasing,

Which you mentioned was an issue for you as well,

And that's a huge one.

I see it everywhere.

I see it everywhere.

And when we people-please,

We are automatically putting other people's needs above our own and masking our own needs and suppressing our own needs.

And again,

Trying to avoid conflict,

Right,

When we people-please,

Which does not promote deep connection or honesty or vulnerability.

I think at the core of that too is people not feeling safe again.

Like why are we doing that,

Right?

Why are we people-pleasing?

Why are we staying in these codependent dynamics?

A lot of the times we want to feel safe,

And conflict doesn't feel safe.

Having an honest conversation where people don't always agree is really challenging to our nervous systems.

I know this is something I'm practicing,

And I will still shake.

It's really challenging.

But I choose to learn how to move through that because it's important.

It's important for me to be able to show up authentically,

And it's important for me to have these conversations with people.

I value that.

I value being honest with other people and being open.

And I try to remind myself when I'm having hard conversations with people of who I am and what my values are,

Because it can be really easy to get thrown off center when emotions are heightened or to take other people's anger on yourself.

So it's really important to just know who you are.

Again,

This is the self-awareness piece.

Know who you are,

And really stay rooted in that,

And what are your values?

I think that can really provide a really strong foundation to help you when having challenging conversations.

Absolutely.

And the last thing that I thought about as well,

Along the lines of avoidance,

Is people avoiding their heart and avoiding their emotions and not feeling their emotions fully.

I think that's really,

Really common,

Putting walls up around our hearts,

Because we also can't be honest and vulnerable with other people if we aren't honest with ourselves and really willing to feel our feelings first.

We have to be deeply connected with our own hearts,

With ourselves,

Before we can have that with another person and feel safe enough to let another person in to really see us and hold us.

Spot on.

Yes.

That's that safety of holding your own heart,

Knowing how you feel.

Yeah,

Couldn't have said it any better.

And Sam,

One quote you and I love by Rumi says,

Your task is not to seek for love,

But merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

So how do you think we can overcome all of these barriers and all of these obstacles and fears and patterns that we've talked about and create more supportive,

Open,

Honest,

Vulnerable,

Authentic,

Loving connections?

That's a big question.

I think doing our own healing is big.

I think practicing a deeper awareness of what our experiences are trying to show us.

I'm an adamant believer in things are happening for us,

Not to us,

And that our life experience can show us our edges.

And if we're exploring our life with that perspective,

We can alchemize those things into greater love and to breaking down those barriers into deeper compassion and forgiveness and all of those good things.

I think really getting to know ourselves,

Too.

And again,

This is the healing piece,

Learning to love all of those pieces of ourselves.

The deeper you go,

There are definitely pieces that you're not going to like that you find.

And learning to love them,

Like you can get there.

And it's really like integrating all of those pieces so that we're in our wholeness,

So that we're not suppressing anything.

It frees our energy up,

Too.

When we're not spending so much energy on wearing masks and people-pleasing and trying to manage the world or whatever,

However it expresses for different people.

Like it really frees our energy up to be directed into things that we feel passionate about and that are aligned with our hearts.

I love that answer.

Thank you for that,

Sam.

And it's a lifelong process.

I mean,

We really have to point that out.

This is not something that happens overnight.

This is a lifelong process in learning.

But I also want to add as well,

Recognizing that your time and energy is precious and valuable and being selective about who you give it to and saving more of your time and energy for people that light you up,

That you feel safe with,

That you feel good with is key as well.

Being more selective.

Not everyone deserves your time and energy,

Right?

And then also creating more safety within.

You touched on this,

But I just want to bring it up again because I think it's such a pivotal piece when we're creating deeper connections and more vulnerable connections.

Safety within yourself and getting to know your own emotions,

Feeling safe with your emotions and practicing that nervous system regulation regularly so that we can find that inner center,

Inner grounding,

That inner safety,

That inner peace,

Which will then help us immensely in our relationships and help us when we're triggered and help us in difficult conversations and help us show up in our relationships as our full embodied selves.

Yeah,

That internal safety is everything.

It really is.

And just back to having difficult conversations,

Sam,

You've already touched on some really important pieces and advice,

But I just want to summarize it for people because I think if people have tools,

They won't avoid difficult conversations as much,

Right?

So let's give people just summarize some tools to help with difficult conversations,

Because I think people are generally pretty avoidant when it comes to difficult conversations.

So what do you got?

Okay.

I mentioned before,

Really knowing yourself and being rooted in your values.

That's been my current practice.

And when I start a conversation that way,

It really helps.

I think having a foundation of trust with a person is essential.

And if that's not possible,

I feel like it can be spoken to at the beginning of a conversation.

Acknowledging that you both love each other,

If that applies,

And it's not like a work setting or something,

And also maintaining your vision of the person's higher self.

Because if we're moving through conflict and maybe we feel angry or hurt or something,

We can lose sight of that.

So I think it's important to hold that higher vision of them and also for ourselves.

Ooh,

I love that.

That's so helpful,

Sam.

And this is all a practice.

Don't beat yourself up.

It's really easy to.

.

.

Having difficult conversations is probably one of the harder things I've ever done in my life.

And like I mentioned earlier in the podcast,

My body will have a reaction.

And it can be really easy to be like,

What the fuck is wrong with me?

But you have to give yourself a break.

We're not typically practicing these things unless you're a diplomat or something.

And it's incredibly vulnerable to start showing up in this way if you haven't done it before.

So be easy on yourself.

And do what you need to take care of yourself to calm your body and to be kind to yourself.

But again,

Know who you are,

Know your values,

Lay a foundation of safety and openness.

I think that perspective too,

Having an openness and curiosity,

Instead of assuming you know what someone means by what they share.

You want to be able to explore things with people if you're having a difficult conversation.

There's not some right answer.

You're not right,

They're not right.

You're exploring together.

And you need to have that openness and curiosity on both sides,

Really.

Otherwise,

It's a little bit uncomfortable.

And I don't know how far the conversation will go.

I love that perspective.

And I think the quote by Valerie Cowher is perfect for this.

She says,

Love calls us to speak even when our voice trembles.

And I think that's a perfect reminder when it comes to difficult conversations.

Because when you're having a difficult conversation,

There's often emotion involved.

So remembering to breathe as well.

Take some deep breaths.

Remembering it's okay to let things be messy and imperfect,

Right?

These aren't going to be quote unquote perfect conversations.

It's okay if you can't find the perfect words in the moment.

Showing up anyway,

Speaking your truth regardless.

And also,

I think taking a pause to gather your thoughts in a conversation before speaking really helps me personally.

And I think just back to like owning your triggers,

Right?

Try not to project your triggers onto the other person in a difficult conversation.

Because that will not be productive.

That's a really good point.

Yeah.

But Sam,

I know you're a highly sensitive person.

And I know you're an empath,

Right?

And so showing up in this way must be like extremely difficult when you're feeling everything around you and feeling everyone's emotions around you.

So how have you learned to discern what's your emotions versus what you may be carrying or feeling from someone else?

Again,

Another really big question.

This has been a process.

I'll take you through it,

I guess.

It started with some deep healing work because I'm really sensitive.

And again,

I think what I'm about to speak to any human being can relate to.

And that is taking on other people's pain.

From a really young age,

I was feeling the world around me.

And most children do.

But I kind of was feeling all of the repressed pain of people around me and learning about the world as it is,

Which is fucked up.

And again,

That applies to all human beings.

Like we're learning what the world is.

Point being,

I took on a lot of pain that was not mine from a really young age.

And so I had to release other people's pain that I had carried.

And after you carry it for a really long time,

It kind of does become yours in a way.

You're just really well acquainted with it.

So healing is a really big piece,

Letting go of those things.

And boundaries,

Boundaries,

Boundaries,

Boundaries.

I had no boundaries.

I want to say in like 2019,

Maybe I started bartending.

I had been waitressing and I had no interest in bartending.

It gave me really bad anxiety.

But the owner of the restaurant and I had a really good relationship and he needed someone to bartend.

So I did.

And it was really interesting for me because the bar was a physical boundary.

It made me aware for the first time in my life.

Oh,

There's this thing between us.

You know,

I can be in my own space.

So that physical boundary of working at a bar was incredibly illuminating for me.

And since that time,

I've been playing with boundaries a lot.

So like physical boundaries,

Emotional boundaries,

Energetic boundaries.

Energetic boundaries are huge for someone that's highly sensitive.

They have been absolutely life changing to me so that I can actually feel myself and my own energy.

Time alone is really important,

Again,

To be able to feel your own energy.

And again,

I think that applies for all people,

Whether or not you're super sensitive.

Boundaries are literally everything.

And this is something I've been navigating myself these past couple of years.

And it's challenging.

It's really,

Really challenging.

But once you bring awareness to it and start to notice it,

It's truly profound.

And Sam,

I just want to bring this up because I think it's funny now in retrospect.

But I remember before our friendship pause a couple of years ago,

During that time that there was a lot of emotion in our relationship before we took the pause,

At least on my end,

You could feel it all.

And we're picking up on everything I was feeling.

And all my underlying stuff,

Right,

All my underlying stuff,

You were literally feeling because energy doesn't lie.

And I remember you called me out on it one time.

You asked me point blank,

Like,

Hmm,

I'm feeling this.

I think it's yours.

Is this the way that you're feeling?

And at the time,

Because we didn't have that honesty yet in our friendship,

This was before the pause,

I couldn't own up to it.

I lied.

And I was like,

No,

I don't know what you're talking about.

Like,

Everything's fine.

I'm fine.

Like,

Everything's good.

What are you talking about,

Sam?

I couldn't own up to it.

I couldn't because we didn't have that honesty.

And it's so funny looking back on it because you were literally feeling everything that I was feeling.

Which is part of the reason I think I ended up feeling resentful because I could feel all of your emotions,

Which you're entitled to.

You're absolutely entitled to your emotions.

But,

You know,

You weren't maybe taking accountability for them at the time.

And I could feel them projected it onto me.

It's like,

Ah,

I just didn't have the tools yet to handle that.

A hundred percent.

You think that's exactly what it was.

I was projecting them onto you.

And neither of us had boundaries.

And you were feeling it.

And yeah,

It was a mess.

And I just want to touch on that time alone piece that you brought up because I feel like it's just so important.

And I just want to know,

Like,

These past couple years as you've been navigating all of this messiness,

Right,

In your relationships,

What has been the importance of time alone?

Well,

I will say time alone has been critical since before the messiness of the last few years,

Since the beginning of my spiritual awakening.

Time alone was essential,

Again,

To start feeling myself and to take a break from the outer worlds that's constantly going.

And just to take a step back from the systems and being caught up in them and all of those things,

Just to be in a peaceful space with myself,

To get to know myself,

You know,

At the beginning of my healing,

Spiritual journey,

Whatever you want to call it,

Because I had been really lost for a really long time.

So having that alone time really allowed me to get to know myself again.

And in the last few years,

I think I felt really raw.

I was in a very,

Very,

Very raw place.

I,

You know,

I was grieving a love that I had lost.

And like I mentioned earlier,

I was also grieving all of the places I could see I hadn't been met as a child and this deep loneliness and sadness for having been left alone in that.

So I needed the space to grieve and to be gentle with my heart.

My heart needed the space and the peace.

Yeah,

I feel that deeply.

I mean,

Time alone is literally probably the most important thing for me.

It's probably literally the most important practice that I have.

I know for myself to recharge,

To replenish for my spiritual and energetic hygiene,

Right,

For boundaries in order to have boundaries.

I need that time and space alone in order to really set the boundaries,

Right,

And maintain the boundaries and to recover from being out in the world and to regulate my nervous system,

Right,

And practice that nervous system regulation.

I need that time alone for all of these things.

But I will say there's also definitely a fine line between hermitting and avoidance and replenishing.

And I know I personally blur that line all the time.

Well,

I will say too,

For the first time in my life,

Since I have been very comfortable being alone for a long time,

I noticed after I started coming out of this grieving period in 2022,

I guess,

It was a desire to be in the world again,

Which I hadn't felt in a very,

Very long time because I had hermitted in the past and I think it did serve a purpose and I did need that.

But I felt after breaking the codependency and enabler,

People pleaser,

Whatever you want to call it,

Dynamics within myself,

I felt more capable of being in the world.

And so I feel like I have found a healthier balance of time alone and knowing when I need that time alone and also when I want to go hang out with people or do other things.

That's so beautiful.

I'm so happy for you,

Sam.

It all comes back around,

Right?

It all comes back a long fucking time.

Oh,

Much alone time.

So,

Sam,

I just wanted for a minute.

I just want to bring it to a higher level perspective.

If there were more honest,

Open,

Authentic,

Vulnerable,

Deep heart-to-heart connections and relationships in the world,

How do you think that would affect the world?

How do you think the world would be different?

Everything would be different because the way we meet each other would be different.

The conversations we have would be different.

What we create together would be different.

Like our relationship to ourself is how we relate to everything.

It's how we relate to other people.

It's how we relate to the earth.

It's how we relate to our creativity,

How we relate to everything.

If we're meeting other people in that space,

We will create a different world.

I keep coming back to the difficult conversations because I've kind of been observing that lately where everyone comes up to this edge of where they are willing to go.

I notice myself and I notice other people stopping where we can still meet each other in this place that's comfortable.

Like you said earlier,

Change doesn't come from that space.

I think we need to all be in our hearts to be able to navigate these difficult conversations that need to be happening now.

With everything that's going on in the world,

The time is now to have these conversations.

We need to be in our hearts to be able to have them and to have that openness and curiosity and ability to find something new,

Something different because what we're doing is not working.

It's not working.

If we all come from our hearts and meet each other in that place,

The world just would be different.

We'd be coming from love.

Everything would be created from love.

That's why I value these things.

Because I want things to change in the world.

I don't want things to stay this way.

There's way too much suffering.

There's way too much pain.

It's not sustainable.

And I know that by healing my own hurt and finding that safety within myself that I can show up in a way that creates something different.

And I'm looking for the human beings that are doing the same.

Let's fucking go.

I have chills.

I love that answer.

And I really believe,

Sam,

This is where we are headed.

Out of the mind and into the heart.

A heart-led revolution,

If you will,

And that starts in our relationships,

Including the relationship with ourselves.

I really feel that this heart-led living,

Heart-to-heart connections,

Deep soul-level connections with each other is our destiny.

I,

For one,

Am excited for it.

I yearn for that for humanity.

And I feel it getting closer every day.

I do.

I really feel it getting closer.

A world where we come back to love.

Because remember that beautiful quote that I don't know who originally said it,

Love is all there is.

Agreed.

Sam,

Thank you so much for being here today and sharing your heart with us.

I'm so,

So grateful.

I'm so,

So grateful that you came back.

I'm so grateful that we're friends again.

And I have one final important question for you.

One final big question.

What is your vision for the future of humanity and the Earth?

Well,

I have like an actual vision showing up in my mind's eye right now.

But the word that I want to share that I feel like encompasses that is freedom.

Freedom for each individual human being.

Freedom for us all together,

That we can like meet in that space.

And the vision I'm seeing in my mind's eye is just like an Earth that's super abundant,

You know,

Clean water flowing,

Birds chirping,

People moving freely at their own pace and rhythm and crossing paths with other human beings that are moving at their own rhythm and meeting each other in that.

And they're just being a fluidity and abundance and beauty.

But I want everyone on this planet to be free and I want us to meet one another in that freedom.

Our relationships can be our biggest teachers and our biggest source of transformation and evolution if we open ourselves up and allow it.

And what a beautiful gift it is to be able to grow together and be each other's mirrors.

What a beautiful gift it is to be able to share our hearts with each other.

What a beautiful gift it is to move through this Earth journey together.

I'll end today with a quote by Ram Dass.

As we grow in our consciousness,

There will be more compassion and more love.

And then the barriers between people will begin to fall.

I would like my life to be a statement of love and compassion.

And where it isn't,

That's where my work lies.