Feeling Safe In Your Body

Marlee welcomes back Stacy Dobbs, Geriatric and Pelvic Health Occupational Therapist and aspiring Herbalist, for a conversation about calming our nervous systems. Marlee and Stacy discuss signs/symptoms of a dysregulated nervous system and share tips and tools they have learned to help regulate the nervous system. Stacy also shares her difficult experience with a serious health diagnosis this year and the practices that supported her through that experience!

Transcript

Welcome to the Shifting with Marlee podcast.

I'm Marlee.

Thank you for joining me wherever you are.

All that I ask of you,

The listener,

Is to have an open mind and an open heart.

And in return,

I offer you myself.

Today,

We're gonna talk about calming our nervous systems and building safety in our bodies.

We've touched on these topics a little bit in various episodes of this podcast already,

But it's such an important topic that it deserves its own podcast episode.

As I've shared with you all previously,

I've been recovering from severe burnout all year.

And through that process,

I've learned a lot about my own dysregulated nervous system and my own disconnection from my body and the connection between that and my burnout.

And I've really dedicated myself to breaking this pattern and healing this and understanding this all year.

I've taken several classes on this topic in the past six months,

And I've been experimenting with different healing practices every day myself.

And I'm really excited to share with you today everything I've learned so far.

Here today to help us dive into this topic is Stacey Dobbs.

Stacey is a geriatric and pelvic health occupational therapist,

Mother,

And is an aspiring herbalist.

You may remember Stacey from episode 17,

Living With Grief from back in August,

2021,

Where she poured her heart out to us and shared the story of her son,

Elon,

And his experience with cancer.

Stacey also shared in that episode,

Her experience with grief,

Pain,

And trauma.

Welcome back,

Stacey.

Thank you so much.

It's so great to be here.

I'm so honored to have you back on the podcast.

Just thank you so,

So much for being here.

Thank you for asking me.

Can you please remind people where they can connect with you?

Sure.

You can find me at swimminggrassapothecary on Instagram and at Stacey underscore Kieferton on Instagram as well,

If you wanna message me.

I'd love to start today,

Stacey,

By providing some examples of the things that can cause a dysregulated nervous system and make us feel unsafe in our body so we can lay that foundation of understanding before we move on.

So do you have any examples for us?

Absolutely.

It doesn't take much,

You know,

To make somebody feel dysregulated.

A simple argument or disagreement can make us feel threatened just like a physical altercation can.

And there's definitely research behind that,

Especially in like marital disagreements or political disagreements or discussions.

They show that in the brain,

It's no different.

That response,

That threat doesn't feel different than a physical threat.

So that can start to dysregulate the nervous system.

Loss,

Losing a loved one can make us feel very unsafe in our bodies and in the world,

Taking into consideration like who we have lost,

What they meant to us,

Whether it's a parent,

A child,

A spouse,

Or just a close relative or a friend.

So with loss,

We're faced with our own mortality and that of those around us.

So it can completely dysregulate us.

I would say physical or psychological in other types of abuse,

Particularly like adverse childhood experiences or events,

Trauma of any kind,

Really,

You know,

Soldiers coming home from war,

Work,

Burnout,

Chronic stress,

Which you are familiar with,

And illness or disease can cause dysregulation.

Examples of that could be like chronic pain,

Hyper or hypothyroidism,

Which really affects the hormones in our bodies can cause that dysregulation,

Drug addiction,

Living in an unsafe environment.

So whether you're homeless or you live in a home that you just don't feel like you have that basic safety,

And believe it or not,

Our own brains.

So research has found that our brains get addicted to the chemicals that are released when we're dysregulated.

So that is why,

You know,

When we experience anxiety or PTSD,

That's a lot of the times,

The reason that we keep that throughout our lives is because our brains become addicted to those things that are the hormones and different things that are released.

So those are my examples.

I don't know if you have any further examples.

Yes,

Thank you so much.

Those are amazing examples.

And I think it's important to understand and what kind of came across when you were listing those is that there's basically an endless amount of things in this world that can activate our nervous systems and cause us to enter into that fight or flight mode,

Unfortunately.

And,

You know,

We're all different.

So you and I could experience the same event and you could be traumatized from it and I may not be.

So it's just very,

It's very individual.

And it depends on our past experiences and things like that.

If you don't mind,

I'd love to share an excerpt from The Body Keeps the Score,

Which is one of my favorite books about trauma by Bessel Van Der Kolk,

MD.

He says,

Traumatized people become stuck,

Stopped in their growth because they can't integrate new experiences into their lives.

Being traumatized means continuing to organize your life as if the trauma were still going on,

Unchanged and immutable.

As every new encounter or event is contaminated by the past.

After trauma,

The world is experienced with a different nervous system.

The survivor's energy now becomes focused on suppressing inner chaos at the expense of spontaneous involvement in their life.

These attempts to maintain control over unbearable physiological reactions can result in a whole range of physical symptoms,

Including fibromyalgia,

Chronic fatigue,

And other autoimmune diseases.

This explains why it is critical for trauma treatment to engage the entire organism,

Body,

Mind,

And brain.

So if you guys are interested in learning more about trauma,

Please look at The Body Keeps the Score,

Brain,

Mind,

And Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel Van Der Kolk.

It's one of my favorite books,

And it helped me a lot after my son passed away.

Thank you for sharing that.

That was put really well and really easy to understand and like all there,

All in one.

And thank you for that.

And some other examples that I thought of,

Of things that can add to that dysregulation,

Sleep deprivation and exhaustion,

Which like the majority,

At least in America,

The majority of people are walking around sleep deprived,

Right?

And emotional reactions,

Like when you're triggered by something,

Your nervous system is triggered.

But then when someone else is triggered around you and projecting that onto you,

Even though it's not yours,

That can trigger your nervous system.

And then also money worries,

Right?

Or being worried about basic survival,

Like food or housing,

So triggering to your nervous system.

And then you touched on this,

But also I wanna point out the death and destruction and fear that's constantly fed to us from the news and media and social media.

So triggering to our nervous system.

And then also the scarcity mindset,

Which leads to more fear fed to us from these capitalistic systems and cultures and structures that we're a part of and really can't escape.

And then on an individual level,

One of the things I've learned in my courses this year is that a lot of our dysregulation stems from childhood,

Which you touched on,

But besides trauma and chaos from your childhood,

Because we are so sensitive and vulnerable as children,

And even if we don't have our needs met by our parents or caregivers,

Or we don't have our emotions validated over and over again as children,

We develop these protected states,

Like anxiety,

Like overthinking,

Like people pleasing,

Like perfectionism,

Et cetera,

Which keeps our nervous systems activated and keeps us in the mind and disconnected from our bodies and our true emotions.

And there's so much more,

Right?

It's so individual,

Like you said,

These are just some examples,

But it can really be a harsh world out there.

Absolutely,

And it's just good to be aware of these things,

Not just for ourselves,

But for the people around us in the way that they're reacting to us,

So that we can know this is where they're coming from,

We can have empathy,

We can build compassion.

Absolutely,

So Stacey,

Let's talk about some of the signs to look out for of a dysregulated nervous system.

Okay,

I believe that there's like the inability to think logically or clearly,

That happens to me.

And I didn't know what was happening.

At the time I was having like a lot of memory problems.

I was,

When I got into certain situations,

Like medical situations where I had to go to a hospital,

I couldn't process what was being said to me because of my past experiences there.

My frontal lobe really just disengaged the executive functioning.

Like it was just,

It shut down.

Irregular breathing patterns,

Holding your breath or hyperventilating,

Your heart races,

Or at least sometimes I notice that I'll feel like my heart is racing,

But it isn't actually racing,

But it just like,

It's like palpitations.

And panic,

Feeling impending doom,

Freezing,

Blurred or tunnel vision or fight or flight,

That feeling of fight or flight.

Yes,

Exactly.

And I also wanna point out,

When you're easily prone to stress and anxiety and burnout and emotional states and like overthinking,

When those things come really,

Really easily to you,

That means you have low tolerance for these states.

And when you find yourself staying in these states for extended periods of time and kind of unable to easily come out of these states,

That means you have low recovery to these states.

And then all of that and having this dysregulated nervous system can lead to frequent illness and poor sleep and possibly poor muscle recovery after a workout and more severe burnout,

Exhaustion,

Right?

If you're tired all the time,

Or if you're easily triggered by others or circumstances,

If you have a lot of aches and pains in your body,

Or if you struggle to really slow down and rest and enter a calm state,

All of these are signs that you may have a dysregulated nervous system.

And a dysregulated nervous system can then lead to feeling unsafe in your body,

Right?

And also what I've learned is a big thing that causes us to be disconnected from our bodies is ignoring our body's subtle signals because our bodies are always speaking to us,

But in very,

Very subtle ways.

For example,

If you're go,

Go,

Going all the time,

Pushing yourselves,

Not resting enough,

Stressed out all the time,

Our body may send us signals through lower back pain or tight shoulders,

Maybe neck pain,

Jaw pain.

Maybe for you,

It could show up in your hips or maybe a mild sore throat.

I know for me,

I actually start to feel mildly feverish if I'm pushing myself too much.

I know,

Yeah,

It's definitely,

It shows up differently for everyone,

But I felt it as fatigue.

Yeah,

Just very overtone of tiredness all the time.

Yes,

And we often ignore these subtle signals from our body and continue to power through,

Continue to push ourselves or hop pills to make the pain go away,

Like Tylenol or Advil consistently,

Which then makes all of those symptoms temporarily feel better,

Right?

And then that's us ignoring those signals from our body if we don't make changes.

And our society and culture unfortunately supports this,

Because it's all about productivity and growth and more and more and more,

And it doesn't prioritize rest or slowing down or honoring our bodies,

Unfortunately.

Yes,

And that has been something I have struggled with so much,

I didn't even realize I was struggling with it until my son passed away.

And then I was like a few,

Maybe a week or so after he passed away,

I was walking down the,

I was in New York City and I had to go pick up his remains,

His ashes.

And I just remember seeing,

I was in New York City,

Like the city that never sleeps,

Okay?

So it was exaggerated here,

And it was just like,

Wow,

The world feels to me like it has stopped and nothing has stopped.

Like,

It's like,

I looked around me and I was just like,

How can this keep going?

You know,

It was just unbelievable.

And that was when I started to really like investigate rest and remember play and remember,

That was the beginning.

Like I couldn't get there,

You know,

Right at that moment at that point,

But that was the beginning of my search for like,

There has to be a better way for our humans and our bodies to exist in the world.

Like this isn't,

We created this,

We don't have to do it this way.

Oh my God,

Yes.

And we also aren't taught like in today's day and age to view our bodies as divine or sacred.

And all of these things,

Stacey,

Combine and add up and keep us in that loop of dysregulation and not trusting ourselves or our bodies.

And as a result of all of that,

Our bodies don't feel safe,

Right?

And I've also learned all of this keeps us being really serious a lot of the time,

Like the opposite of playful,

Right?

It keeps us being very,

Very serious.

And that's one thing I've noticed for myself as well,

That I'm like a very serious person.

And it's a vicious cycle.

And this is a cycle I personally was caught up in before this year.

Absolutely.

I've definitely started being able to play with my son more and be,

And just really be there.

I remember him like asking me to do something and I just like,

It's like,

You think like,

Oh,

I was so tired.

And I was just like,

You know,

It's so,

I just don't wanna do that.

Like,

I just don't wanna,

You know,

But now he's really into,

He's so creative and he's really into crafts and drawing and painting.

And so I just decided like,

I'm gonna be real.

When I was little,

I loved that stuff too.

And so I just decided like,

I'm gonna be really into this too.

And so he'll make,

We do things together.

Like last night we made,

He has these little hearts and he put eyeballs all over it.

And then I drew like little characters,

Faces out of the eyeballs.

And I honestly,

It was one of the best times that I've had in like a couple of weeks.

Like- Oh my gosh.

And he was having so much fun and he carried it around all night and it was something we could do together and it was fun.

And I like,

He started just trying to take it from me before I was finished.

And I was like,

No,

No,

Wait.

I really got into it.

But that is,

I feel like what we are lacking or at least what I have been lacking.

And I feel like a lot of people,

They just,

You can lose that creativity,

Like that ability because it is a skill and you need safety in order to be creative.

Stacey,

That is the perfect segue to the other end of the spectrum.

So like why it's important to have a regulated nervous system and some of the benefits of feeling safe in our body,

Right,

Number one,

Creativity.

You have access to your creativity.

What else?

I mean,

Regulation of the nervous system is so important.

It allows for your body to have homeostasis,

Right?

And it's something that our body is wired to maintain.

It allows us to have access to restorative sleep like you talked about.

It decreases inflammation in the body,

Which causes disease.

It's involved in memory,

Learning ability,

Auditory processing,

Sensory processing,

And a lot more.

So a dysregulated nervous system can cause poor mental health,

Including depression,

Anxiety,

Insomnia,

Poor attention span,

And poor memory.

And it can lead to unhelpful behaviors that cause difficulty with social relationships which then perpetuates the feeling of not feeling safe.

So as most of us have learned in high school or middle school about Maslow's hierarchy of needs,

The idea is that all humans have basic needs,

Beginning with food,

Water,

And sleep,

Which are physiological.

And once each need is met,

Only then can a person move up the hierarchy towards self-actualization,

Which is the goal,

Which is living to your highest potential as a human.

The need just above food,

Water,

And sleep is safety.

Feeling safe allows us to access happiness and health.

It permits normal physical,

Mental,

Emotional,

And spiritual development.

It is the prerequisite to healthy risk-taking and opportunities for creativity.

So when safety is developed properly,

It becomes an inner state of being.

It allows for the pursuit of healthy relationships and healthy bonding.

On the other hand,

Things like rumination can cause chronic inflammation that leads to unwanted health problems like stroke,

Heart attack,

Cancer,

Diabetes,

And a whole spectrum of autoimmune diseases that we're finding out.

So it's just imperative that,

As a human being,

That we develop not just safety in our homes and in our world,

But an inner feeling of safety.

And that is,

You know,

That's really something that is such a foundation.

And we function from a place,

A lot of times in this society,

And we don't even have that.

We don't even know that we don't have that.

And so I think a lot of it is just awareness,

Like,

Do I feel safe right now in my body?

Or just giving yourself a moment,

Even if you're not sure about,

You think you feel safe,

But you're feeling dysregulated,

You know,

There are a lot of practices that you can do too to help.

You're so right.

I love that answer.

And besides all of the direct health benefits,

Which you mentioned,

Which are many,

I learned in my courses this year that when we learn to regulate our nervous system and listen to our bodies,

We can operate and live more within our true functional range,

Which of course is specific for each person.

And it's when we live and operate from that functional range,

We can access our full potential,

Like you said,

And that's where we can experience more joy and playfulness and that creativity and inspiration and imagination.

And we're truly magnetic when we are in these states.

And like,

Doesn't that sound amazing and ideal?

Like,

Yes,

Please,

That's where I wanna live my life.

And you know,

I wanted to point out because you mentioned earlier about living in a capitalistic society.

And I know that there are people out there that think like,

They have the argument that,

And not that capitalism is the worst,

Like it's a system that we developed from other systems that we're trying to be better,

Right?

We're trying to be better,

We're trying to do it better,

But that doesn't mean we have to stop there,

Right?

And in capitalism,

There's an argument that says that it breeds creativity because of competition,

But that,

I really do not see that as being true.

I think that's a myth.

I think that's a myth to perpetuate the use of capitalism.

In our society,

Because a lot of the principles of capitalism,

You know,

People working really hard,

Really long,

That is a killer of creativity.

That is a killer of feeling safe because it causes burnout,

It causes chronic stress.

So I just wanted to point that out because I think that there are better ways that we can do things.

And I think that helping everybody to feel safe in their bodies in the first place is where we start.

And we deserve to feel good.

We deserve to feel safe.

Absolutely.

So Stacey,

Switching gears to a more personal level for a minute,

I know you went through a lot this year,

Personally,

That really tested you and was really stressful and probably really threw your nervous system for a loop,

I imagine.

So can you please share with us a bit of what you went through this year with your health and body?

Sure,

Yeah.

Thank you for asking.

So first of all,

I was just tired.

I really thought that it was burnout from working in home healthcare all through the pandemic,

Or maybe that I was developing an adrenal issue after the chronic stress of having a baby with cancer and him dying a few years ago.

But maybe it was being a working military spouse and my husband was away.

I mean,

There were so many reasons that I could have been feeling tired.

So I was just fatigued.

I had actually visited my primary care doctor for that reason in 2021,

And he did blood work.

Everything looked completely fine.

I had just stopped breastfeeding two years ago,

And I recently made friends with my neighbor,

And don't worry,

This will connect,

Who had two young babies.

So in the summer,

I always have my windows open and I would hear them crying.

So I thought I was lactating out of empathy,

But it turns out I had a very small,

Like mysterious leak coming from my right breast,

My nipple.

And I really did not wanna go to the doctor.

I brushed it off for about a month,

Thinking that it would stop because I did spend time with my neighbors and I would hold her babies and they were really young,

And so they would cry when they were hungry.

And I really just thought like,

Oh,

I have so much empathy.

But finally I Googled it,

And I saw that it can be normal to have that happen,

But there was a very small chance that it could indicate cancer.

And so I knew I had to go and get it checked out.

The doctor ordered a mammogram,

And the day of my mammogram,

I was so anxious.

I was having a hard time eating.

I stopped at a smoothie place because I wasn't eating breakfast.

And as I was leaving the smoothie place,

Which is not far from my doctor's office,

I started talking to Elan,

My son who'd passed away.

Actually this month,

December 14th,

I asked him to give me a sign that I was gonna be okay.

I sort of shook my head because I didn't know what I was doing,

Asking him for help.

I'm like,

He's a baby.

Like,

I don't know how this works.

Like,

I was just reaching out because I felt desperate.

And maybe I second guessed my sanity a little bit at that time.

But as I looked behind me to pull out in the parking lot,

I saw a woman walking toward me in a black shirt with a bright pink breast cancer ribbon.

Sorry.

And written at the top of her shirt was the word FIGHT and in all capitals.

And I have never received a sign more clear than that.

I wanted to believe that it was a coincidence,

But it was a pretty extraordinary experience and that I just couldn't deny it was.

But also it terrified me because I'm like,

How hard am I gonna have to fight this?

Because I knew then,

I think I knew before,

But I really knew then,

Like this was not gonna be an easy time.

I went to the mammogram.

It showed what looked like DCIS,

Which is called ductal carcinoma in situ.

I had a scheduled biopsy after that,

Which confirmed the diagnosis.

And the thing they don't tell you on Google is that there is a small chance that it could be invasive cancer.

Less than 2% usually,

But after having a baby die from a very rare neuroblastoma diagnosis,

Only 700 cases diagnosed each year in the US.

For him,

I did not count myself out of the woods.

I met with my general surgeon who told me that my cells were grade three aggressive comedo and explained what my options were.

And I chose a double mastectomy,

Even though the DCIS is only in my right breast.

I wanted to make sure that I prevented this from happening in the future.

My pathology results would not be conclusive until after the surgery.

So I had to live with the question mark of is my cancer invasive for a few months from diagnosis to.

.

.

Because I had the double mastectomy,

I got clear margins,

But the margins were small.

And my surgeon was concerned.

So she said,

Normally I don't do this,

But I need to go back in.

I need to get a little more tissue and just make sure that we have these clear margins.

And so I said,

Okay.

I trusted her.

She was wonderful.

We got the clear margins that we were looking for,

Which is like three to four millimeters at least,

Which means- With the second surgery,

You mean?

Yes.

So that finally was after.

.

.

It was toward the end of September.

My first surgery was on my 37th birthday,

August 30th.

So I had waited two or three months with the possibility that I could have invasive cancer.

And it was just fight or flight mode,

Basically.

And for me,

I am not a fighter.

I am a flight person.

Like I'm a runner.

I love to run.

I was.

.

.

I had to walk as fast as I could.

I had to run.

I had to talk at the same time to get my heart rate up.

And I always felt better afterwards,

But it was just a constant reminder that this life is so precious.

And we have no idea how much time we have left.

And we get stuck in this,

Like,

Get up,

Go to work,

Our routines,

Our daily things that we're like,

Oh,

I hate this,

Or I'm burnt out,

And we do nothing about it.

And this was honestly like a real gift to.

.

.

I quit my job,

Which I had needed to do.

I was very burnt out.

I was very tired.

And I love my job.

I love helping people.

I love what I do as an OT and geriatrics,

Especially,

But I just needed to stop helping sick people for a while.

I needed to focus on myself.

And I wanted to mention that I did do this herbalism course during this time.

And I had to kind of stop at the end because I had my surgeries,

But I learned about something that can be very helpful for cancer as an adjunct to chemotherapy,

Or some people use it as their entire treatment,

Depending on the type and what they believe,

High dose IV vitamin C.

I noticed a big change even before my surgery in the,

I guess you want to call it the discharge that was coming out of my nipple.

It changed color.

It was very dark.

It was like,

It looked to me like it was working.

But I still chose the double mastectomy.

I'm a person who believes in allopathic medicine and I believe in Western medicine too.

And I think that combining those things for me was really important to feel confident that I was covering all my bases.

But if you are experiencing anything with breast cancer or any type of cancer,

I highly recommend looking into the research studies on PubMed and things like that about high dose IV vitamin C because it's not something a lot of people know about,

But there's really,

Really good research on it.

And I'm still doing it.

I'm still following through to just make sure that we clean everything up and make sure I live a long,

Long,

Healthy life.

Wow.

Thank you so much for sharing that with us,

Stacey.

I am just so glad that the surgeries were successful and that you're doing okay.

And are you done with surgery or are you in the clear?

So I do not have invasive cancer.

I will not need radiation or chemo or tamoxifen,

Which is another thing that they use sometimes to help prevent like recurrence.

I do have one more surgery for reconstruction.

So,

But my surgeon reassures me that this surgery will be much easier than the first and the recovery will be much shorter.

I just now feel like from August 30th and the small second surgery that I had,

I'm just now feeling like I can get back into working out.

My energy is returning,

Things like that.

So I'll have one more surgery and get knocked out a little bit by that anesthesia and the recovery period,

But hopefully it'll be shorter.

And then hopefully I'll just be done and ready to move on with all the things that we have coming up ahead.

I wish you all the best with that last surgery.

And Stacey,

I have a question for you.

So,

You and I are friends and I know that this experience triggered your PTSD.

So I just wanted to talk about that for a minute.

How did that PTSD from this experience show up for you and how did that feel in your body?

Well,

Like I said,

I felt a lot of light reaction.

So I was,

I'd get on the phone because my support system just carried me through this,

My people,

And I got on the phone and I would walk as fast as I could while still being able to talk.

And that like really,

Really helped,

But that's how I was triggered in that flight mode.

I didn't wanna be alone.

I was afraid of being by myself.

I just didn't have like the capacity to,

I felt like I didn't have the capacity to regulate my own emotions.

I just needed somebody there to reassure me that things were gonna be okay.

And unfortunately,

During this whole time,

My husband has been in a course that's required by the army for his,

Because he's a captain.

And so every captain has to go through this captain's career course.

And he,

We had chosen for him to be gone during this time and we were supposed to move with him,

But it honestly worked out really well because I was here,

I had my established doctor,

I was working,

I have our house,

My son was in daycare.

So there was a lot of things that like actually really worked out well for us,

Despite me really wanting him to be here through all of it.

It honestly was a blessing to be,

To not have moved because we would have moved twice in like six months.

You know,

I cried.

I cried a lot.

I cried when I was sad.

I cried when I was happy.

I cried looking at a flower.

Like I had a lot of like emotion and it was,

It was beautiful in a way.

Like I felt permission to express myself.

I felt permission to bring up things,

You know,

In relationships that I previously just kept inside.

And as much as a dysregulated nervous system,

You know,

Isn't chronically,

Like having that chronically isn't good for you,

It does change your perspective.

And it does,

You know,

There are good things about it too.

Like there is a reason that your body does that.

And I think there's a lot of lessons that we can learn from having fear and facing it and trying to just be in your body and be comfortable with it,

Which is not easy.

It's very,

Very hard.

But I became acutely aware of the preciousness of each individual moment,

The good and the bad.

I only wanted to spend time with the people that I love the most.

And a lot of people fell away and I cleared out a lot of things and people in my life that just,

Not that they were like bad,

Not that they were like bad people or anything like that,

But it just needed,

There was just some clearing of energy that needed to happen that really helps you to be able to move,

Help me to be able to move forward.

But I think that I became very precious in my own eyes.

And,

You know,

That was sort of a breakthrough.

Like that was a breakthrough for me that I didn't even realize that I didn't think that before,

But that was one of the best things that came out of all of it.

But yeah,

There was a lot of fight and flight.

And,

You know,

I think that what it made me realize is that there's all of it at once.

There's all of the preciousness and the fear.

And,

You know,

It just exaggerates all of it.

And so even though the fear and the worry is really bad,

Like,

You know,

The love and the compassion and understanding and connection and bonding was also exaggerated.

So there were blessings in it.

It just,

You had to look for them.

Wow,

Stacey,

I'm really in awe of you.

I mean,

You've just been through so much in this life and thank you for sharing your most difficult moments with the world and being so open and honest and you're truly an inspiration and just thank you for sharing.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share it with everyone,

Because I think as,

Like we were talking about projectors in the world and human design,

You know,

That is something that we're here to do.

So thank you.

Absolutely.

And I think this is a great segue into providing some actionable tips and tools to people to help them regulate their nervous systems and build that safety,

Some like actionable practices.

So do you have any practices you recommend for nervous system regulation?

Yeah,

I have a lot.

And I think that you kind of have to learn about all of them and then you just have to pick what works the best for you.

One of,

Breath work is one of those things you can do anywhere,

Anytime.

And,

You know,

People might think,

They might hear you breathing a little bit,

But you know,

They're not really gonna notice most of the time.

So breath work,

I like to do,

I like to practice what's called whiskey breath,

Which is when you make your exhale longer than your inhale,

It calms you down.

So you inhale to a count of three or four,

And then you exhale to a count of,

You know,

Five or six.

And if you do that for at least 10 times,

You can really start to feel your vagus nerve,

Your nervous system really settle down.

Also lately,

Speaking of play,

I've really gotten into a lot of somatic releases.

So dancing is one of my favorite things to do with my toddler.

Like we'll put on whatever music he wants to listen to,

And we just dance and be silly and you make whatever,

Like body movements that feel good,

Including like jumping and shaking or skipping,

Twerking,

Tapping,

You know,

Things like that.

All of those somatic releases have been so beneficial for just helping me to calm myself.

And I love chanting actually.

This is something new for me that I never had really tried.

I've always been curious about it,

But I had a Vedic astrology reading right before my surgery,

Right before my birthday.

And she gave me a chant that it's basically for healing and for fear.

And I might butcher this,

But I want to try to say it so that you guys can look it up.

And maybe Marley,

Maybe we can post something about it so people can listen to it.

So a lot of times people will say this 108 times,

And it's Maha Mitranjaya mantra.

And that is to like Shiva or Saturn,

Saturn represents Shiva.

And he is the God of,

You know,

Like he's basically like the God,

But there are many,

But like he is like the destroyer.

And he is,

It's basically saying to Saturn,

Saying to Shiva,

Thank you for everything that you've tried to teach me.

And I get it.

And now please go easy on me.

So I would walk around the block and chant this out loud.

And I'm sure my neighbors think I'm completely insane,

But it did really make me feel better.

The fear afterwards was gone.

And there's something about like the vibration of a chant in your throat that just really helps.

It's almost like a somatic release in a way.

The vibration and also when you're chanting,

Your exhale is naturally longer than your inhale.

So you're also getting that breath work in there.

Yeah,

That makes sense.

Absolutely.

So I also wrote down affirmations on my mirror when I would wake up in the morning or as anytime I was in my room and I'd look in the mirror,

You know,

I would just say,

You know,

Like I am vibrantly healthy.

I am,

You know,

Transcending into ease and comfort.

I am love.

And those just really made me feel better,

Especially because I was looking at myself in the mirror when I was saying it.

And so it became really true for me.

And those helped so much.

There's a lot of science behind affirmations too,

Especially when you say your name first,

When you say,

Stacey,

I am,

You know,

Vibrantly healthy,

Or you are vibrantly healthy,

Or however,

If you address yourself,

That can be really powerful as well.

I also wrote down like hugging a tree,

Which I know that you are a fan of.

You and I are both like,

I love to touch trees.

I love to like lean against them.

I like to find something solid.

Usually it's a tree,

But sometimes if I'm inside,

It's a wall and I'll lean against the wall and with my back to it and feel the solidness.

And then I place my hand on my heart and I'll say,

Stacey,

Your body is safe.

And that just,

It just relaxes you.

Like it's,

And then to feel like that connection,

Especially when you're outside,

If you can do it in the woods or something like that,

It's even more powerful.

But it works even inside your house,

Especially if you're home and you feel safe in your home,

It can also work with just the wall in your home.

I also think of things that I'm grateful for or just positive,

Loving thoughts when I'm doing that practice or just generally throughout the day,

If I start noticing like negative thought patterns or rumination or worry,

I just start to think about really good things.

I just,

It's just all about awareness and recognition of where your mind is and your thoughts are taking you because you're in control of that.

Even when you feel like you're not,

Even when I felt like fight or flight and I couldn't help but worry about my pathology results,

You know,

Distraction is also a really powerful tool during those times when you can't actively get your mind out of it.

Social media was really helpful to me for that.

But I've also since then really pulled away from social media.

So it's an interesting thing,

Like it's a tool that we can use.

And I think that that's something that we need to start thinking of it as instead of just spending like mindless energy there,

We need to really start using it more as a tool.

And yeah,

Just getting outside in nature,

Surrounding yourself with trees,

With water,

Rocks,

Even,

I mean,

You just go to a rocky place and that is,

Honestly,

To me,

It's the same because there is a vibration in nature that you can't get anywhere else.

And it doesn't have to be like a living tree.

It can be like a solid rock there and sit on a rock and look at all the rocks,

You know,

And just be,

Be there,

Be present.

And we don't spend enough time in stillness.

I spent a lot of time,

I planted calendula because I wanted to use them to make some medicine.

And I spent a lot of time just looking at calendula flowers in my backyard.

It's very grounding too.

So grounding.

And it's just like,

It's miraculous.

I love all of those practices.

Thank you so much for sharing.

Just so,

So helpful.

Thank you.

I need to mention before,

I'm so sorry,

Yoga.

Of course.

Yoga and for me,

Inversions,

Although I couldn't do a lot of that after the surgery,

But before the surgery,

I was doing a lot of inversions just to like get the blood in my brain kind of circulating so that I wasn't feeling so stuck.

Yeah,

Definitely.

And I wanna point out as well that actually listening to your body's subtle signals that we mentioned earlier will help as well.

So when those mild aches and pains pop up,

Or the fatigue,

Stop what you're doing.

Drop into the body,

Feel into the body and inquire internally what you need in that moment.

Maybe that's a break or a pause or going outside or going for a walk or stretching or doing some self massage or doing some deep breathing or some grounding practices or resting,

Whatever it is.

Taking that action at those moments taking that action at those first signs of dysregulation when your body is signaling that to you will stop the cycle in its tracks.

Absolutely.

And I think it's really important to point out the goal is not to never have your nervous system activated or to never feel stressed out because that's obviously just not realistic.

The goal is to build resiliency for when you're faced with that stressful circumstance so that you can reach a more regulated state more quickly.

The goal is to have a bunch of tools in your toolkit that you can use and turn to to help you as needed throughout your day.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

And it's individual to everyone.

So,

You may not like yoga,

You may not be into it.

I mean,

It could be surfing for you or it could be mountain bike riding.

Lots of exercise.

Even just walking,

That types of things,

Whatever gets you back into your body and gets you outside is really so important.

Yeah,

And so much in this world is trying to keep us in fight or flight mode.

So,

We have to actively work to regulate our nervous systems.

It's a conscious choice,

A conscious awareness we have to return to over and over again.

Absolutely.

I'm so glad you said that because I think so many of us,

We have these adverse childhood experiences and that build trauma,

But we don't necessarily remember the event because maybe it was a small thing that was repeated over time or maybe we just haven't explored that at all.

And so,

We have these automatic programmed reactions,

These deep grooves in our brains that program us to react to something.

And that's why meditation is so great,

Right?

Because you can sit and be still and see where your thoughts are going.

You can actually observe that.

And if they're going in a place that you don't want them to go,

You can redirect them back and redirect them back.

And the more that you do that,

The easier it is in the moment to pause before you respond instead of using that automatic reaction because you're actually building new grooves in your brain when you practice meditation.

So,

It's just a really great,

It's really,

Everybody's at a different place.

And so,

If you wanna get started with something to help you recognize,

Build awareness,

Just start noticing when you're angry with a partner or your child or whatever happens in your life that elicits unwanted feelings,

Just notice what your thoughts are,

How you're reacting.

You don't have to be perfect in that moment.

Just be aware of what happens.

And that's where you begin.

Absolutely.

And I actually have some practices I really wanna share that are really impactful that I learned in my courses that are all about that,

What in my courses we called state shifting.

And big shout out first to Sarah Lemmerman from the Projector Movement because I learned all of this from her.

She taught all the classes I took.

So,

The first practice,

Like I said,

It's called state shifting.

Well,

It's a practice to help you shift states.

And this is when you catch yourself doing the states that are activating to your nervous system.

So,

When you have that awareness,

So like,

Let's say overthinking or people pleasing or perfectionism,

Anxiety,

Or maybe it's rushing around.

That's a big one for me,

Like constantly rushing around,

Whatever it is for you.

And when you notice it,

Say out loud,

Stop and clap your hands,

Like stop.

That's really important.

And then put your hand on your heart and talk to that part of yourself that was doing that state.

Tell that part of you,

Thank you so much for doing perfectionism,

For example,

And trying to keep me safe and protected and loved.

I love that so much.

I've never heard that one.

I love it.

It's great.

I do tell myself to stop though,

Out loud.

Yes,

And then after you thank that part of yourself,

Then say,

I now call upon my true self that already knows that I am safe and accepted in this moment.

And I invite these parts of myself to merge together in this moment in my heart.

And then spend a few moments just breathing into your heart,

Feeling into your true self,

Which is really just a calm and loving state.

And you can also visualize if it's helpful to you,

A shield of kind of bright light around you when you're doing this.

And when you feel,

Truly feel like your full body,

That state shift,

Let's say it's from anxiety to a more calm state.

And when you feel more calm,

You can kind of just open your eyes and go about your day.

And the key to doing this is to do it over and over and over again.

So every time you catch yourself doing these activating protected states,

Do this state shifting,

Do this practice.

And with time and practice,

Like you said,

Stacey,

You'll build new neural pathways in your brain and you'll build that resiliency.

And I promise you,

It's so powerful and effective.

I've been doing this for months and I've definitely noticed a significant change.

Wow,

I am definitely.

See,

I've always done the stop and like try to just breathe,

But I've never done the thank you for trying to protect.

That is so beautiful.

I know,

I know.

And I think that's like the most powerful part of it is just the combo.

Yeah,

It's like,

You know,

I understand that you,

This is not,

You're not trying to hurt me by doing this.

This is not going to be overwhelming.

You're trying to help me.

Thank you for helping me.

Yeah,

That's beautiful.

You have to treat your body that way.

You have to treat your mind that way.

You have to look at yourself like you're trying to do good for yourself.

And you are,

That's really,

Your body is trying to protect you.

Your mind is trying to protect you.

So that is so beautiful.

And then you shared some really beautiful somatic exercises,

But I actually learned a bunch in my course as well that I want to share with you all today that are a nice compliment to what you shared,

Stacey,

And they're really effective to also help state shift and calm the nervous system and drop into the body.

So I'll do my best to explain these in a way that makes sense on a podcast that's just verbal,

With no visuals.

So the first,

The first is simply to hug yourself and squeeze your arms up and down from your hands all the way to your shoulders.

Like,

And that's it,

That's the practice.

So simple,

Can take 20 seconds,

Squeeze yourself up and down a few times.

I do this multiple times a day,

That one,

And it feels really,

Really good.

So easy.

So easy,

Yes.

So then the next one is to tense and squeeze your whole body,

Tighten up for a few seconds or two,

And then release it all with an audible sigh.

Also very,

Very quick and pretty much an immediate state shift.

So another one is to extend your arms over your head and do a big audible yawn with an audible exhale.

Like,

Ah,

I love doing that one,

That one feels good.

Another option is to lightly tickle and caress your face and neck with your fingertips.

And this not only feels good,

But it's super effective at calming your nervous system.

Yes,

Exactly,

Stacey,

You can't see Stacey,

But she's doing it.

I need all of this practice.

Yeah.

Okay,

And then the final somatic exercise I have for you today is shaking.

So you mentioned shaking,

Stacey,

But specifically what I learned in my course is shaking your hands while shaking your head and kind of shaking your shoulders or your full body,

Depending if you're sitting or standing,

While making a raspberry sound with your lips like this.

And so doing that,

That one I think is probably my favorite one.

I also find myself doing that multiple times a day.

And all of these exercises work to really move energy and emotions through your body.

And then they're also really grounding,

Help you state shift,

Right,

From that kind of more stressful state to a calmer state.

And they also work to actively calm your nervous system.

And I wanna point out,

You don't have to do all of them,

Right?

Pick what resonates with you and what feels good.

And the key for all of these somatic exercises is consistency and repetition.

And if you're in public and don't feel comfortable doing these,

Like shaking and going with your lips,

For example,

Even though I have started doing that myself,

If you don't feel comfortable doing that in public,

You can try like removing yourself and just going to the bathroom and then doing it in the bathroom or like just going into a hallway where there's not people around and doing it in the hallway because all of these are so quick,

Right?

So I think you can still find ways to do it in public.

Highly recommend them.

They've been really helpful for me these past few months.

You know,

If you have a small child,

You can just pretend like that's why you're doing it.

Yes.

I use them as an excuse a lot to like do silly things and it's lovely.

Yes,

Exactly.

And then Stacey,

You mentioned chanting,

Which I also really love,

But singing I feel like also has,

You know,

A similar effect to chanting.

And I just want to say like when you're singing,

Like let's say you're singing instead of chanting,

Bonus points if you sing songs that you loved as a child and like connect with your inner child while also calming your nervous system,

Bonus points.

And I think that you can also,

I think there's research behind this too,

Where you can also hum.

Yes.

If you're like,

Like you said,

In public and you don't want to sing your childhood song,

You can like kind of hum it and that inner vibration actually stimulates happiness.

You're so right.

So I think that is all of the active actionable practices we have for you today.

But Stacey,

I know you've been studying herbalism for a while.

You have even opened up your own online apothecary,

I believe.

So what herbs can help us calm our nervous system and feel safer in our bodies?

There's so many,

And it depends.

Like we were talking earlier and,

You know,

Every body,

Every person is different where we have different constitutions.

And then every plant has,

You know,

Thousands of constituents that play on our own constitution.

So something that may work for me really well may not work for you.

But I really encourage you that,

You know,

If you try one or two things and they just don't work,

Not to give up on herbalism because,

You know,

Once you do find that thing,

It's just so beautiful.

And for me,

The first plant that I ever started working with that I think a lot of us are probably really familiar with is chamomile.

German chamomile.

It is usually really great as a infusion or like a tea.

And it has a lot of essential oils and things like that,

That just,

It almost works,

It seemingly like immediately.

Like for me,

Even the smell of chamomile flowers can put me in that relaxed state.

So a lot of times I'll have chamomile flowers like throughout my house and Trader Joe's has them a lot.

So I'll put them in little vases around my house and just smell them.

And they're so happy.

They're just a really beautiful flower too.

So,

You know,

That's just integrating a lot of the senses that way,

Which is important.

I've also found that kava kava root,

The tincture for me,

They also make it into drinks and chocolate.

The tincture right on my tongue,

It almost is like a little numbing to the tongue,

But it is something that has been used in indigenous cultures for thousands of years and Polynesia,

And they would use it right before going to like town hall,

Like community events,

Where there was going to be discussions and things like that,

Because it is a sort of like a relaxing herb.

It's not a sedative.

So they actually call it like an energy drink because it doesn't make you feel very tired or anything like that,

But it almost like relaxes the mind so that you are in better communication with others.

So that one I found to be really helpful when I,

Like chamomile can make me kind of tired and sleepy because it's a sedative.

So,

You know,

I'll use kava kava during the day to help me like when I need that energy still.

There's a lot here,

So maybe we can like make a list too,

And I'll put it on my Instagram,

And that way you guys can like come over and look at it on Swimming Grass Apothecary.

I make a lot of tinctures,

But I don't,

I give them away.

I don't sell them right now.

I love this practice so much,

And it's helped me so much that when people reach out to me,

I gift it if I have it,

Because that feels good.

And I wasn't sure that I wanted to make it work or a job for me.

I think maybe eventually I do,

But right now it just feels really good to help and to have something to offer that is truly from my heart,

Like truly medicine that I crafted from my heart and not for money,

Because I have been questioning capitalism a lot,

And I've been doing trades,

Which is really fun and better than money in my opinion in a lot of ways.

So I do trades,

Or if,

You know,

Somebody is just financially like not able to do it,

Especially if they are experiencing grief,

I give all my grief tinctures away.

I just give them.

That's beautiful.

Thank you.

So shiitake mushrooms are actually really good,

And you can just eat those and incorporate it in like a stir fry or in your food.

A lot of different kinds of adaptogenic mushrooms are also helpful for the stress response.

Those can come in capsules and things like that too,

Powders that you can put in drinks.

And they usually,

Mushrooms,

They have like that umami,

And they actually give like a really good flavor to a tea that isn't,

It's not like what you would,

You think of like as a portobello mushroom or something like that.

It's not the same.

I've really enjoyed rhodiola,

Which is also a adaptogen for stress,

But it is,

It gives you like this really clean energy.

So you take that in the morning or during the day when you're still kind of doing things,

Cause it will,

It can make it difficult to sleep if you take it too late.

Cannabis,

I know a lot of people use cannabis,

Edibles.

I recommend edibles or tinctures and things like that because,

You know,

Or vaporizers because trying not to get smoke in your lungs is usually a good thing.

But I understand that sometimes like when you need it immediately,

That smoking is also makes it available quickly.

So it just depends on what you need it for and how quickly you need it.

Ginseng,

All types of ginseng,

Korean and American.

They also have this type of Siberian,

They call it ginseng.

It's not actually ginseng,

But if you're searching for it,

You would look up Siberian ginseng and that's what you,

It's very great for energy and for relaxation,

Which is,

It sounds like oxymoron,

But the more I learned about herbs,

The more it makes sense to feel that way because we're a lot of us,

Even though I love coffee,

I can't drink it because the caffeine content and the way that the caffeine is,

I don't know,

The processed in my body,

It just drives my anxiety.

But I can have caffeine and like say matcha tea and that doesn't feel the same to my body.

So it's,

Like I said,

It's really individual and ashwagandha is another adaptogen and you can use in tinctures or capsules.

Mugwort,

I usually recommend in a tincture from fresh plant.

What I love about mugwort is that it also,

It's in the wormwood family,

But it's not absinthium,

It's artemisia.

So absinthium is like the hallucinogenic one and the artemisia is the one that also like helps you relax,

But it also stimulates lucid dreams.

Ooh.

Yeah,

So that one's really fun.

Milky oats,

Lavender,

Lemon balm,

Skullcap,

All these can be used as like a tea and infusion before bed or when you're just trying to like release some tension at the end of the day.

And honestly,

I like to combine a lot of those.

It just depends on how much you need.

Valerian is really good for insomnia and for sleeping difficulties,

Helping you relax.

Vervain,

Hops,

Motherwort is also,

Motherwort,

Wort means herb in old English and so it's the mother herb.

So there's so many things that motherwort,

It's really interesting if you look into it,

Can be used for and it definitely helps with anxiety as well.

So I don't wanna go into like,

I know that's like a huge list,

So I just get really excited when we're talking about herbs.

So I can go on and on,

We can have a whole nother podcast on this if you want.

Well,

Listen,

Mother earth to the rescue,

Right?

Yes,

Exactly.

And I think that's something that we forget,

Not that we shouldn't rely on Western medicine for a lot of things,

But I think that we just forget that we can combine those things and we have to be careful,

We have to pay attention,

We have to know interactions.

If we're on medications,

We need to talk to our doctors about,

Whether we can be taking these herbs with them or look it up,

The interactions.

But honestly,

I have found such success,

More success with herbs than I have with conventional Western medicine,

Especially when it comes to anxiety,

Depression and just general like relaxation.

I was on antidepressants before,

Antidepressants a long time ago.

And I'm not saying like a lot of people they really work for.

And so then you should use them if they do.

For me,

It was kind of the opposite.

It kind of made things worse and I adjusted some and I tried things for about a year or two.

And it didn't help,

Like my practitioner didn't listen to me saying that things were getting worse and they would just up the medication,

Which was just make like continuing to make it worse.

But for some people that's all they need.

And like,

That's the solution that they're looking for.

And that's important because if it works for you in your life,

Then that's what you should do.

And for me,

I love growing things.

I love making medicine.

I love plants.

I love taking the medicine.

So for me,

It's really fun to explore that kind of thing and to gift it and to share with people.

So helpful.

Thank you for sharing.

Thank you for that list.

Like just so,

So helpful.

So thank you.

So Stacey,

Shifting gears now to a larger scale,

Kind of a collective level.

I'm curious your perspective on this.

What changes do you think we would see in the world if the majority of humanity had regulated calm nervous systems and felt safe in their bodies and connected to their bodies?

Yeah,

I mean so much.

I just think we would have a completely different world.

I think we would focus a lot less on productivity and a lot more on rest and community.

There would be a lot less anger and more compassion and understanding.

We would see an explosion of creativity and technological advancement.

And like I said previously with the assumption that capitalism breeds competition,

Which breeds creativity,

I reject that wholeheartedly.

And I think that rest and I think that regulated nervous systems and feeling safe would advance our society beyond what we could probably even imagine at this point.

Yes,

I love that answer.

And I think a population that was more centered and grounded and aware and calm and actually felt good in their bodies,

There would be a lot less negativity and fear too.

Absolutely,

Yeah.

And I think people would be kinder towards each other and the earth.

I think there would be less conflict.

And I think a population that had full access to their creativity and imagination would be able to solve so many problems in the world and create on a whole other level.

Yeah,

I think that once I started feeling safer with the reality that,

And this might sound strange to people,

But I started feeling more comfortable with the prospect of my life could end before I got my pathology results.

I started to really lean into the sharp points,

Right?

Like just lean,

Okay,

Just what if you are dying?

Lean into that.

Be safe in that knowing,

Right?

And one interesting thing I learned about myself during the whole ordeal is that I really want to decompose after I die,

Like in a pine box or a human compost,

Or like all the things that they have coming up with.

I just think what an honor it would be to be devoured by the mycelia and the mushrooms,

To be consumed by the very earth from which I emerged.

I hope one day to become fertile soil for which new systems arise,

Systems focused on humanity over profit,

Love over power,

And regenerative,

Healthy ecosystems.

And I literally want my decomposing body to be a part of that.

That gives me chills,

Yes.

Same here.

Stacey,

Thank you so,

So much for being here today and sharing your truth and your wisdom with us again.

I have one final question for you that I like to ask all my guests that I didn't get to ask you last time.

So here goes.

What is your vision for the future of humanity and the earth?

My vision for the future is that we begin to prioritize rest and play,

And develop entirely new systems around the wellness of human beings and our non-human kin.

I envision that we will begin to honor our divine mother,

The earth,

For the sake of our future human generations and of all living things.

I think that we forgot what a precious gift we have to be here in this obscure moment,

In this speck of the universe,

Supposing infinite time.

I think it's astonishing.

And I think that this whole experience and this year in my life has just really highlighted that I do have a vision for the future.

And then it doesn't have to be bleak.

It can be beautiful.

It's my wish for you that you feel good in your body and safe in your body.

It's my wish for you to feel the peace that comes from a calm nervous system.

Remember,

Our bodies are the sacred vehicle carrying us through this life,

And they deserve our attention and our love.

I'll end today with a quote from Tricia Hersey of the Knapp ministry.

Wherever our bodies are,

We can find rest,

Ease,

And liberation.

Love your body,

Rest your body,

Move your body,

Hold your body.

We are meant to survive and ultimately thrive because we are divine.

Reviews

Amazingly helpful information. I learned so much and was really inspired by your stories. As someone who is extremely disregulated due to horrific trauma, I felt hope that I can one day feel safety and happiness again. I love the practical steps too. Thank you ❤️🙏