Dealing With Difficult People - Insight Timer Live

In this recent workshop held on Insight Timer Live, join Buddhist contemplative David Johnson for a talk on dealing with difficult people. Learn how to awaken your compassionate and resilient self in the face of "difficult" people. It's easy to absorb the emotional pain of challenging people or try to fix them. Through learning to change our perceptions and arouse compassion, we can respond in a healthy and emotionally balanced way.

Transcript

So good evening everyone again,

Good afternoon,

Good morning,

Great,

Perfect.

So welcome to this talk.

We're looking at dealing with quote-unquote difficult people.

Difficult people can be people we don't like,

People who challenge us,

People who suck,

But I was gonna say people who suck the energy out of us,

But people who suck,

You know,

These kinds of people.

It could be anyone,

Right?

It could be our family,

Could be co-workers,

Clients,

Managers,

Even our close friends and partners can become a difficult person on occasion,

Can't they?

So hello,

Aideen,

Thomas,

Andrea,

Manu,

Rob.

Thank you for joining me this evening for this talk.

So during this workshop what I'd like to do,

I want to look at this,

What do we do,

How can we as spiritual practitioners,

As Buddhists,

As meditators,

Or just people who want to have peace of mind,

Maybe that,

You know,

Just I just want peace of mind,

Don't consider myself anything else,

How can we handle this,

Deal with difficult people,

People who challenge our peace of mind,

Make life difficult.

Many of us probably,

If you've explored anything about Buddhism,

You'll know probably what my answers are going to be this evening and that's because Buddhism teaches that all problems,

All painful feelings,

They come from the mind.

So unfortunately this evening's talk is not going to be how to get away with murder,

It's not how to kill your partner and get away with it,

Or how to stop annoying people from existing.

That's not going to be what we're talking about.

I won't be saying much about removing people from our life or how to change people because we can't,

So this is not how do I change a difficult person,

Which is actually what we want isn't it,

That's what we really want,

You know,

We don't want to change me,

I'm fine,

I'm okay,

They're the problem,

Right,

That's what we believe.

But we can't change people,

We can limit time with some difficult people,

Can't we,

But we can't guarantee that we'll never experience another difficult person because another person will rise up and test our patience,

Our love and kindness.

So from one perspective actually Buddhism says that these difficult people,

They show us great kindness because how can we develop patience and compassion without meeting people and things in life that require great patience and compassion.

So we can't change people but luckily we don't have to,

We don't have to,

Because the real solution here will be an internal shift,

Our way of addressing quote-unquote difficult people,

Moving from a helpless disempowered way of being to an empowered,

Compassionate,

Strong,

Resilient way of being,

One where we can handle these ups and downs.

So before we get into it I would like to say if anybody would like to offer Dana a donation,

An act of generosity this evening,

It's very much appreciated,

It's not at all required,

The teaching is offered for free,

But donations and things that we receive,

It all goes towards fundraising for setting up a retreat center here in South Wales.

So yeah any donations are very appreciated and if you have any questions at all as we're going through the talk,

Anything you want me to touch upon,

Please do leave them in the comments,

We'll see how they come up in conversation because I want this to be practical,

I want this to be more of a collaboration rather than just me talking at you for an hour.

So before we jump into it let's just take a couple of minutes to settle the mind,

Quick four or five minutes just to bring our attention to our body.

So wherever you are right now just get comfortable for a moment and just get comfortable and bring your attention into the body first of all right down to the ground,

Just noticing that contact with the cushion,

The chair.

I'm just taking a deep breath in through the nose and slow exhale through the mouth.

Another deep in breath through the nose,

Slow exhale through the mouth and then just bring your attention to your breathing for a few minutes,

That gentle rise and fall in the body.

And connecting with our motivation for this talk,

To listen with an open mind,

An inquisitive mind.

Okay and then we can open our eyes again bring ourselves back to our surroundings.

So let's jump straight into our topic.

Where do we start?

Well we start always with identifying the problem,

That's how we always start,

Identifying the real problem.

So what is the problem we're trying to solve?

What are we trying to explore?

So the problem is difficult people and so let's start there.

What is a difficult person?

That's a good question isn't it?

We might think well that's obvious,

Let's not be silly,

But what is a difficult person?

We might say well somebody who disturbs my peace of mind,

Somebody who makes me feel upset or anxious,

Somebody makes me feel angry,

Somebody who challenges me,

Who's rude to me,

Who lacks empathy or understanding,

Somebody's aggressive,

Very self-involved,

The list goes on.

We could quite literally name a lot right?

But already as we start to define it we recognize that it is interdependent and what that is is that there is one who disturbs and there is one whose peace of mind is disturbed.

It's an interdependent relationship.

If there's no disturbed person there is no disturber,

There's no difficult person,

It's just a person exhibiting some behavior,

Just a person perhaps hurting or suffering.

There is only a difficult person when there is someone to name it so,

To say you're being a difficult person or to feel upset.

So already this difficult person to be a difficult person is interdependent,

They need an us and so well that's obvious but what does that have to do with anything?

Why am I saying that?

And so what we're saying here is that my problem,

Which we've said is difficult people,

Actually requires two things,

A difficult person and someone who feels challenged or upset.

And I'm not just playing with words here,

There is a point and that is we ordinarily believe that other people and other things are the problem.

He's the problem,

My co-worker is the problem,

She's the problem,

My in-law,

My neighbor,

My work situation,

My car,

Whatever it is,

I get stressed,

Frustrated or angry because of them,

Because of their lack of empathy,

Their behavior,

Their rude manner.

And what the Buddha says is well yes they are a trigger of an unhappy feeling,

They are not the sole cause.

So yes if they weren't there perhaps there wouldn't be an unhappy feeling,

Well perhaps we'd be upset at something else.

So yes they are the trigger,

They are the spark but what does a spark need in order to become fire,

To become a flame?

A spark only becomes flame if there is the right conditions,

If there is fuel,

Something to ignite.

A spark on its own doesn't become a flame if there's no right conditions.

So what we're saying here is this is an interdependent relationship,

So we know that they can't be the sole cause.

Because if your neighbor or your co-worker was a cause of anger then everyone who interacted with them would become upset.

Everybody who saw their rude behavior,

Their self-involved manner,

Everybody would become upset.

But not everybody does,

Not everybody responds to our co-worker,

Our in-law,

Our clients in the same way.

And also do we not respond in different ways at different times depending on how we're feeling?

Perhaps if we feel quite good,

We feel quite well,

We've had some good news,

We're able to maintain that inner peace,

Protect that feeling against outside influence.

So you know perhaps we go into work,

We're feeling quite good,

Maybe we're going on holiday at the end of the week.

So you know feeling quite good,

Feeling positive and then comes depressive Danny.

We'll call him depressive Danny.

Depressive Danny comes over with his complaining attitude and he starts going on about things that are wrong and the managers and this and that.

If we're feeling quite good we might be able to handle that longer.

We might think oh it's just Danny and you know we'll be able to to let that,

To brush it aside easier.

Won't bother us as much.

But another time maybe we're tired or we're hungry,

We're not feeling so good.

Then we have no patience for Danny already.

As he comes over we're rolling our eyes,

We're thinking about what he's gonna say,

We know what's gonna come out of his mouth before it does and we're already becoming tense,

We're already becoming upset at this difficult person before they've even opened their mouth.

So same depressive Danny,

Two different responses,

Two different ways of being.

So what the Buddha says is yes,

While this person is a trigger,

While this person's behavior is a trigger,

The primary cause is actually what we do in response.

It's not so much that the person made a rude comment,

It's about how we grasp on to that rude comment thinking how dare they,

I shouldn't have to experience this,

This isn't fair,

People can't just behave like this,

You know,

Why me?

And you know this sort of commentary that we have going on this rumination,

It's about how our thoughts become entwined.

This very first one,

That's unpleasant,

Why me?

I shouldn't have to,

This isn't fair.

And they get rapid,

They quickly get out of hand and then they give rise to an unpleasant feeling which gives rise to a difficult emotion,

Anger,

Hurt,

Resent.

So what I'm saying here,

Well by the Buddha saying this,

Is he saying then well then the real problem is you,

The real problems you,

And to let people get away with everything.

No,

Not at all and I don't want anybody to think that,

That that's what I'm saying here.

What the Buddha is saying is check your mind,

Be very aware of what's going on internally,

Think carefully about how your own ways of responding are causing you pain and making things more difficult for yourself.

Does it mean not to act?

No,

Not at all.

He never said let bad people get away with bad things.

In fact,

You know,

You look at the stories of the Buddha and he was very active in working out solutions in a monastic order,

In communities between kings and you know,

On their people,

He was very,

Very active in resolving solutions.

So he's not saying that the sole fault is the fuel,

Is the responder.

The spark of course needs to be present,

There needs to be the spark,

But what he is saying is we can't always control sparks,

Can we?

We can't stop people from being difficult,

We can't even control our partner,

We can't even make sure,

You know,

Our kids or our family do what we want them to.

That's the truth and the reason we struggle so much is because we want them to be different.

So before we get into this,

We're not saying not to act and in fact there will be many,

Many occasions when we need to set boundaries,

Limit how much time we spend with people,

What topics of conversation we allow ourselves to be drawn into,

These kinds of things.

There'll be many occasions when it's actually not about boundaries,

But it's about further action,

Escalating it at work or with our local authority,

Our landlord,

The police even,

You know,

There will be occasions when we need to do that.

What we need to recognise is that we have two problems.

There is an external problem and there is an internal problem and it is our responsibility to distinguish the two.

The way this person behaves,

The way they talk to me,

The way they harm other people,

That is an external problem which requires an external solution.

So I can't,

You know,

Give what is that external solution.

As I said,

This isn't how to get away with murder.

So there is no one right way of dealing with difficult people externally,

Is there?

It will depend and it will depend on the person who we are,

The capacity,

Everything else.

So perhaps a person who's deliberately harming others,

They're acting out of anger,

They're rude,

They're hurting people maliciously,

Deliberately,

That person,

Perhaps it needs,

You know,

It needs to go further,

It needs to go the discipline route or the police or,

You know,

Whatever is relevant.

But if we think about another type of person,

Depressive Danny,

For example,

He's not particularly malicious.

He's hurting,

He's suffering,

He struggles to deal with his own mind,

He has a habit of complaining.

And so his way of approaching you and complaining and all of that,

Does that require disciplinary action?

Not really.

So there might actually be nothing we can do externally.

There'll be occasions where it's limited or it's not useful,

It wouldn't help.

So when that happens then we need to turn to our internal problem,

Then we need to look at what we can do inside.

Because we spend all of our time fixing these external issues,

Don't we?

Never looking to our mind.

We're always looking at the sparks.

How can I stop people from being annoying?

How can I fix this?

Sort this?

Get rid of that person,

Do this?

Never thinking how can I actually remove the fuel or how can I put flame resistance over,

You know,

My fuel?

This way that I go into myself internally,

This vicious cycle of going round and round about how I was wrong and how unfair it was,

How annoying this person is,

How it would be better for everybody if they had an accident.

All these kinds of thoughts,

Or I wish they would change,

I wish they would be different,

Feeling hurt,

Offended,

Offended,

Resentful.

These minds.

All of this,

Which actually its only function is to harm me,

Disturb my peace of mind,

Hurt me.

It doesn't fix the problem,

Does it?

It doesn't fix the situation.

You know,

When we go home and go over and again about this person and how unfair it is and why,

You know,

It's not fair that I have to experience this and this and that and on and on,

That's not actually fixing anything.

That's the external solutions job,

Isn't it?

That's the having a conversation,

Escalating it,

Or you know,

The police or whatever it is,

I don't know.

That's the external solutions job,

To fix the situation.

So the upset,

The hurt,

Why me,

This isn't fair,

All of this,

These thoughts,

While they're habits and while they're automatic for us,

They don't help,

They don't fix the situation,

They just hurt us.

They harm our own mind.

So this is an internal problem,

This requires the internal solution,

This requires working with my mind on a daily basis and it's not easy and it takes time and it's not about,

You know,

A five-minute meditation every five days or six days,

But it's daily work,

Working with our mind,

Being aware of what's going on and actively working with our mind.

Meditation,

Mindfulness practice,

Ways of getting more in touch with the calm state of mind,

Getting in touch with our emotional self,

Becoming self-aware.

One of the first and biggest realizations I came to when I first discovered Buddhism was that we actually have the power to choose how we feel.

I was sick and tired of feeling drained,

Sad,

Emotional hurt at what was happening in the world and what was happening in my own life and in reality I was disempowered.

I was a real victim to the world.

I had no control over what was happening,

No control over what other people did and so because I had no control over them I had no control over how I felt.

Things going wrong,

People doing hurtful things and I'd feel hurt.

I'm not saying now by the way that I'm perfect or that I'm enlightened or that I never feel hurt or anything like that,

Not at all,

But what I came to realize what the Buddha was saying is that your thoughts and your mind don't have to control you,

But you can influence them.

We have the power to choose and influence our thoughts and if we can influence our thoughts and influence our emotional processes then we can influence our feelings,

Influence how our behavior,

Our emotion comes out and in turn we choose the kind of life that we want to live.

We choose how we feel.

So it is is it easy?

No.

Is it simple?

Yes.

How is this sitting with everyone?

Let me know what you're thinking in the comments,

You know,

About what I'm saying here,

About turning to this this internal problem because we can't stop the external sparks,

We can't stop these external people.

So there's there's issues here and I see them as four,

Perhaps four main issues I think.

The first is the way that we grasp onto our experience,

Making it concrete,

Making it big,

Instead of letting it happen.

So life could be seen as like a flowing river,

Right?

There's water moving and what we do when there's a difficult situation is we try and stop the river,

We hold on to it,

We think,

Oh this is unpleasant,

Why is this happening to me?

I can't believe this is that instead of just being with the river and letting it happen,

We're holding on to it saying this is not fair,

Why me?

I shouldn't have to experience this,

You know,

And all of this stuff,

We make it big,

Concrete,

It's permanent,

It's,

I can't deal with this.

So we make it bigger than it needs to be by grasping onto it.

The second is that we believe I shouldn't be experiencing this.

This is a version,

This is the I shouldn't experience this.

So perhaps with depressive Danny,

The person at work who drains our emotions,

They complain all the time,

We believe I should be sat here in my office,

Nice and quiet,

Doing what I want to do.

What is actually happening is Danny's in the room and Danny is going at it and you're hearing his voice and,

You know,

He's complaining.

We sit on this side thinking I should have peace and quiet right now,

I shouldn't have to listen to this person.

Whereas what is actually happening here is not that case.

What is actually happening is Danny's in the room and he's complaining.

So there's these two,

We are holding on to our rejecting what's actually happening.

So this is our second one.

The third one is we're focusing on our I,

Our ego,

Our self-cherishing.

We're not seeing it from the other person's perspective,

We're not seeing it from a neutral perspective,

We're becoming very self-focused.

I don't want to have to hear this,

I want to have a quiet office,

I want to,

You know,

It's this very very much focused on myself.

Depressive Danny,

For example,

Is hurting,

He's suffering,

But we're not seeing it from that perspective,

We're just seeing I don't want to have to listen to you.

This is our third one.

We're gonna explore these in more depth and then the fourth one that I see is that perhaps we're not able to or we're not practicing patience right now,

We're not practicing compassion,

There's not enough of that happening because that's the real protection,

Those are the real antidotes to this.

So I'm just gonna look at these questions and see if we can integrate them into what I'm talking about.

Great,

Really really good questions and we're going to be looking at these points,

That this is not at all,

As I said earlier,

About letting bad people get away with bad things or dismissing our feelings,

Either suppressing them,

You know,

Consciously,

I'm not feeling this way,

Repressing them unconsciously,

Hiding them away or running away from our feelings at all.

This is not the strategy,

This is about working with the thoughts that are giving rise to those feelings,

The way that they become very exaggerated,

Very dramatic,

So that's what we're looking at here.

So really good questions,

We'll look into this.

So this first one,

Grasping onto our experience,

We have a tendency to interact with the present moment through our thinking ruminating mind,

Not attending to our immediate reality,

But through this,

Why is this happening,

What does this mean,

I shouldn't have to have this,

You know,

We're thinking about what is actually happening and there's all of these thoughts that are going on about it.

We don't let things just happen,

Just unfold.

So maybe we drop a bowl,

Smashes on the floor,

We might become very upset,

That was my favorite bowl,

I got it from so-and-so,

I can't believe,

You know,

It broke,

You silly so-and-so,

You pushed me,

You know,

You knocked me and I dropped my bowl and they're,

You know,

Making it this a big deal.

Our attachment,

Our not accepting that things are impermanent and that things are changeable,

That drives us to grasp on to this experience,

Hold on to it for dear life,

Instead of letting it go,

Letting life be.

If we let life unfold moment by moment,

We respond of course to the bowl,

The bowl still needs picking up.

If somebody was reckless and pushed into us,

Of course,

We need to have that conversation,

But we recognize this is the nature of things,

They break.

And we recognize that if ten minutes,

One hour,

Three days later,

We're still hurting,

We're still offended about it,

That's because we're holding on,

We're not putting it down,

We're not accepting the impermanence of the situation.

There's that story of the two monks crossing the river.

So these two monks,

They're walking back to their monastery,

Senior monk and a younger monk,

And as they come to this river,

They have to cross this river,

Walk through it.

There's a lady there and she's in a very long flowing dress and she asks if they can help her cross the river.

And the senior monk without thinking,

Well,

Without saying anything,

I'm sure he thought,

Picked up the lady,

Put her over his shoulder and crossed the river,

Set her down on the other side.

And then they carried on walking to the monastery and after a while the young monk had been ruminating about this,

You know,

We've taken a vow never to touch a woman,

This is,

How could he think of just doing that,

He broke his vows.

And so then after a while of ruminating about this,

Thinking about this ether,

It's too much,

I need to say something.

And so he said,

Why did you just pick up that woman like it was nothing,

Why did you just pick her up?

And the senior monk said,

I put her down on the other side of the river,

Why do you continue to carry her?

And so it's this idea that we concretize things,

We hold on to experiences,

Good and bad but mostly bad,

Tormenting ourselves about it,

Instead of having a more,

Understanding that things are permanent,

Things are changing,

Allowing ourselves to be a bit more free-flowing with what is happening,

A bit more present with what is happening.

It's this,

And this leads me to the second one,

It's this exaggeration,

This belief I shouldn't be experiencing this,

I shouldn't have to experience this,

We're holding on to what we want to happen,

Rejecting what is actually happening.

This is what aversion does,

Aversion exaggerates,

Aversion distorts our reality.

So perhaps we think of Depressive Danny or a malicious co-worker,

Somebody who is quite rude.

With aversion what happens is,

You know,

We come into contact with that person,

We think of them as unpleasant because of,

You know,

Their behavior,

Something they say,

And then aversion starts to exaggerate every little detail,

Thinking about every other time that they've been rude,

Every other time they've been like this,

Been like that,

That,

You know,

That they are inherently a bad person,

That,

You know,

And it becomes more and more exaggerated until we've created this sort of three-headed green monster in our mind.

We're no longer attending to the real person,

Our co-worker,

But we are thinking of this evil,

Horrible person.

And so,

And then we reject,

We reject,

That's what aversion does,

It rejects,

It either wants to hurt them or run away from them.

Depressive Danny,

We think of him as so annoying,

How he should get a grip,

How he should think better,

That,

You know,

He knows the answers,

That he,

You know,

Should just stop complaining,

He's upsetting everybody,

He's this and he's that,

And it becomes very exaggerated,

And we think of this person as a person,

I can't,

I can't interact with this,

You know,

It's too difficult to look at this person or be with this person,

It becomes very exaggerated,

And then with depressive Danny we might not want to hurt him,

But we want to avoid him,

We want to stay away from him.

So aversion needs acceptance,

Needs understanding,

Except this is what is actually happening,

Danny is in the room right now and Danny's complaining.

This is another sort of should,

We,

You know,

I don't think I should be experiencing this right now,

But it is actually what is happening.

The idea that this shouldn't be happening is just that,

An idea,

It's a concept,

It's not based in reality.

Now the other day on Sunday at our meditation group that we have,

One of our attendees,

Laura,

She said something really,

Really interesting,

She'd been at a Buddhist retreat recently,

And there was some really loud,

I can't remember what it was,

Some loud interruption going on in the background of this meditation retreat,

And the teacher afterwards apologized to the attendees,

To one of the monks saying,

I'm sorry for all that noise,

That's disturbing our meditation,

And the monk said something very interesting,

Which was along the lines of,

The sound doesn't disturb me,

I disturb the sound.

And so what this is,

Is well the sound just is,

The sound of,

You know,

The birds or the talking just is.

It is us who responds,

It's us who then grasps hold of that and says,

Well that's annoying,

I shouldn't have to experience that,

Let's get rid of,

You know,

Let's get rid of that.

So we might be sat at home and so,

And we hear the sound of somebody chewing very loudly,

Our partner or something,

And we think,

That's annoying,

It's an annoying sound,

It's a difficult person,

And then we,

You know,

We start to get all irate and worked up about it,

And then eventually we have to say something,

Or maybe we're trying to meditate or go to bed and we can hear people talking or kids playing,

And then that annoys us.

The sound just is,

The experience just is,

But we grasp onto it and decide,

That's not very pleasant,

I don't want that,

That's not fair,

And make it into a big deal.

Which brings me to the third,

The self-cherishing,

This ego-cherishing.

Self-cherishing makes everything about us.

Self-cherishing sees me as most important,

My well-being,

My opinion,

My happiness,

My peace of mind,

More important than anyone else's.

And this is a real distortion of reality,

Because,

You know,

If we think of us sat there and somebody's chewing their food,

Why is somebody not allowed to chew their food?

Why can't they just eat their dinner when I'm trying to meditate or,

You know,

Have a bit of quiet time and there are kids playing?

Am I really getting upset because some kids are having some enjoyment?

You know?

So,

Isn't that a little twisted sometimes,

You know,

That we become upset because we don't want to have to hear kids playing or somebody cutting their grass or,

You know,

These kinds of things.

This self-cherishing makes us want to think about us.

With depressed Danny,

Our colleague who comes to us hurting,

Who's complaining about things again and again and again,

We're focusing on I.

I don't want to have to listen to this.

I want peace and quiet.

The self-cherishing thought completely ignores the fact that this person is hurting.

Imagine what it's like to be inside his mind.

Oh,

But the self-cherishing mind makes it about us.

I'm making fun of this,

You know,

This self-cherishing but it's true,

Isn't it,

In many ways.

So,

One of the first realizations I came to when I heard about this self-cherishing was that every single time I was upset,

I was making things about me.

Either I wasn't getting what I wanted or I was having to experience something I didn't want to and then we blame the other person.

The chewing.

The chewing is the problem or Danny's complaining attitude.

So,

Every single time and this can be so subtle,

So subtle,

Difficult to work with,

Difficult to acknowledge.

So,

I just want to address some of the the comments here that I can see coming up.

Alexandra's saying about the dramatic part of me is dramatic for a reason.

Maybe somebody's father beat them in the face every time a person dropped a ball.

So,

Important.

Absolutely and when in no way are we,

You know,

Saying that these are not,

That that is not the case.

You know,

Trauma is something very complex to work with and and what we're talking about here with dealing with difficult people is more of the mundane.

You know,

Going into trauma and dealing with difficult people is a whole different topic.

I do want to acknowledge that you've said there is very correct.

We need to be aware of what our triggers are and what our history is and why these are hot triggers for us.

You know,

We can work through those and work through how those triggers make us behave and make us respond.

But you,

But these sort of situations,

There's very mundane situations dealing with the ordinary difficult people where trauma is not related.

I hope it's clear that that's what I'm talking about here.

Andrea also saying deep trauma is difficult to let go of when you're in shock that the person could be so cruel.

My idea that a person shouldn't cheat,

Is that wrong?

And again,

Like we're recognizing why does a person cheat?

Why does a person cheat?

They cheat because they are looking for pleasure.

They're looking for happiness.

They're looking for some enjoyment.

Does what their behavior,

Does their behavior hurt people?

Yes,

Absolutely.

What was their motivation behind it?

They were looking for love and also,

You know,

Some enjoyment,

Some pleasure.

The way they went about it hurt other people.

Is that wrong?

Absolutely.

Morally,

Ethically,

It is wrong.

So we're trying to bring understanding as to why somebody does that and hope that that person can find genuine causes of happiness,

Not just more mere pleasure.

The same with anybody who does any behavior that hurts others,

Whether it's cruel,

You know,

Cheating,

Hurting,

Stealing,

All of these things.

You know,

When they cause harm to others,

It's absolutely wrong.

But why do they do it?

They do it because they're looking for pleasure and they don't know the true causes of pleasure are actually internal.

The true cause of the real happiness they're looking for,

Lasting happiness,

Satisfaction,

That's internal.

So our wish is that they can find that,

That they can stop hurting other people,

Stop hurting themselves and find a way through that.

And this is,

You know,

It doesn't mean,

Again,

It doesn't mean that we don't act on an external problem.

It doesn't mean that we don't deal with that,

Have that conversation with somebody about their external behavior.

But again,

We're trying to look at how am I responding?

You know,

Are there other ways of looking at the situation that protects me from tormenting myself over and over again about this thing that happened or why it shouldn't have happened and these kinds of things.

If somebody cheated on us,

Acceptance or understanding is very simply acknowledging,

Okay,

This thing happened.

Not that I like it or that I love it or that it was great or it should have happened.

Just accepting,

Okay,

This happened.

Now what?

Where do I go from here?

For as long as we hold on to this shouldn't have happened,

He shouldn't have done that to me,

We're going to keep going over that and keep harming ourselves.

It's about protecting our own mind,

Our own heart.

It's not healthy to hold on to such resentments in such a way.

We need to find a way that I can move on for my sake,

For my peace of mind.

So that's what this is about.

So this,

Coming back to the self-cherishing,

This subtle subtle self-cherishing that's making everything about me.

One such way,

You know,

I said that that whenever I looked at any unhappy feeling I recognized that it was coming because I was making things about me.

Either I wasn't getting what I wanted or I was having to experience something I didn't want to.

And,

You know,

I started to recognize that.

And this can be very subtle.

For example,

Let's say our partner or our close friend becomes sick or they're depressed,

They have,

You know,

They're hurting.

We may be spending time with them and find that we feel unhappy as well.

We might try to cheer them up,

We might try to,

You know,

Get them out of the house,

Get some fresh air,

Let's do something mindful,

Why don't you do this or what,

You should read this book or you should meditate,

You know.

We should check our mind carefully here when we're trying to do that.

While there will be some empathy,

Some compassion driving us to want to help,

If we're feeling sad or upset or frustrated ourselves that's because of attachment and self-cherishing.

This is so subtle.

This person isn't fun to be around and there's a part of us that doesn't like that.

One of the reasons we want them to feel better again is so that they're more enjoyable to be around again.

And this is hard to hear,

This is hard to hear if we're,

You know,

We're compassionate people.

But we should check our mind carefully,

Is there an element of this here?

If I try to cheer somebody up or I try to help them and they resist my help or they don't feel better,

Do I become annoyed?

Is there a little unhappy feeling of that?

Why?

Because my self-cherishing mind thinks I know what's best.

I want to fix them,

We want to fix people our way and you know,

They're not very enjoyable to be around,

They're not fun to be around.

There's a part of us missing the normal kinds of interactions we have.

That's why people can be so avoidant of family and friends who are suffering or judgmental of others when they're having mental health problems,

When they're going through depression,

Anxiety,

Struggling with trauma,

Going through therapy and people can be so avoidant of those people because of their self-cherishing,

Focusing on,

You know,

How they should just snap out of it,

They know best.

Oh it's not nice to be around that person,

They make me feel sad.

Why?

Because of their self-cherishing.

So subtle,

Really challenging.

But to cut through this and act out of true compassion,

True love,

This pure mind,

Compassion doesn't hurt,

Compassion is powerful,

It's virtuous,

It's active,

It's loving,

Compassion is how can I help,

What can I do?

An attachment and self-cherishing makes it about you,

Compassion and loving-kindness makes it about them.

And so this brings me to that fourth note there,

Fourth issue that I mentioned about why people can or why we can find people so difficult and that is that we're not practicing patience or compassion or that,

You know,

We practicing patience and compassion are the antidotes,

They're the antidotes to everything we've been talking about,

To dealing with difficult people.

Patience is the ability to accept wholeheartedly whatever arises having given up the idea that things should be other than what they are.

Very simply,

The ability to accept wholeheartedly whatever arises having given up the idea that things should be other than what they are.

It doesn't mean to like it,

To approve of it,

To be happy with what's happening,

To say that it's good or bad,

It simply means I accept,

Okay,

This is what is happening or this is what happened to me.

And it's the greatest protection for our well-being and for our flourishing.

It's simply about letting go of our version of events,

What we think should have happened or should be happening and just accepting,

Okay,

This is what is happening and it's this way that we put down the why me isn't fair,

I shouldn't have to experience this and just saying,

Okay,

This is what is happening right now.

So of course this again,

I keep coming finding myself coming back to this but it's such an important point,

This is not to ignore what I said earlier about the internal problem,

External problem.

And in fact I have a great quote here that I wanted to read from my teacher's book,

Lama Allen,

Dr.

Alan Wallace,

And his book on,

I think this is from the four immeasurables,

I think so.

So he's talking here about patience.

So he says,

Of course there are times when in the face of injury a response beyond acceptance,

Beyond saying never mind,

Is appropriate.

Cases where we recognize that something needs to be done and there are also times when it's better for all concerned if we can say it doesn't matter and let it go.

How can we tell when patience is the appropriate response and not just an invitation to codependence and abuse?

Shanti Deva offers a very useful rule of thumb.

In his chapter on patience he speaks of dealing with adversity as a situation that arouses a passionate response and his answer is,

Insofar as you see that your passion,

Your powerful urge to respond,

Is afflictive or aggressive,

Then be still until that subjective search has subsided.

Don't forget about the object,

Letting it go doesn't mean a response is not required,

It simply doesn't need to be an afflictive response.

As we know,

Such a response almost always makes things worse but a wonderful thing about the mind is that it does not remain afflicted forever.

So it tends to the situation and when your mind is no longer afflicted,

It's wholesome and naturally more powerful qualities at your disposal.

That is the time to engage and then you can do so with passion.

And he ends here saying,

When we see something terrible taking place,

The situation needs the best from us.

Our anger,

Our hurt,

Our despair and our frustration are not what is needed.

If a situation demands a response,

First get your mind in superb shape and then come back with all guns blazing,

But these are Dharma guns,

No violence needed.

I can see here somebody saying about the acceptance quote.

I'll just say it one more time if somebody wants to write it down in the comments or take note of it.

And so patience is to accept wholeheartedly whatever arises,

Having given up the idea that things should be other than what they are.

At the end,

If somebody hasn't got it,

I'll put it in the comments so we have it.

So there are times when we need to act but acting with forbearance,

Our best state of mind,

This is a passionate,

Powerful way to respond.

But more than patience,

I feel like the real answer to this issue of difficult people is loving kindness and compassion.

It's the antidote to our self-cherishing,

The antidote to our self,

The self-focus.

So depressive Danny,

This example,

This person in our office who's come to us with their problems and they're complaining about the same old things again and you know it normally it sucks our energy and we don't like to be around them and they drain us.

So loving kindness and compassion is about trying to see it not through the lens of me and I but seeing this person who is hurting,

This person who is struggling with their mental habits,

Their unhappy mind.

Compassion is that wish,

May they find freedom from their suffering.

Compassion wants to help if it can but it's that wish.

I want this person to be free of their suffering and this wish,

I want them to be free of their suffering helps protect against your own annoyance and frustration.

When we're self-focused then it's annoyance and frustration,

It's about me.

But if we turn to Danny and think about you know how he's feeling that protects us against that anger.

Imagine it's difficult for us to be around that person to hear all that complaining and that negativity right?

But imagine being in his mind,

Imagine living with that that negativity 24-7.

We think these people can help it or can't they just stop complaining.

But this is mental habit just like we have mental habits and this person lives seeing the fault in everything,

Really struggling,

Always blaming the external person,

The external situation for their unhappiness and wanting to get everybody else on their side.

That is an unhappy mind to be in and so if we think about Danny in that way,

That compassion could only arise.

Not anger,

Not annoyance,

Oh poor me,

But that compassion for Danny and how he feels.

And so this wish,

May they find freedom from their suffering,

It doesn't mean you know I know the way Danny,

You need to do this,

You need to do that,

Meditate,

You should read this or you know I'm trying to fix the person.

They may or they may not be open to that or have the capacity.

We can't fix people,

We have to accept that we can't force people to change.

That's a big thing.

A lot of us want things and people to be different and if there's somebody hurting or somebody struggling,

We don't want them to suffer so we just want to go in there and fix them,

Make it better especially if we think we know how.

But some people are resistant to that change or you know they don't want you to just come in and fix.

So letting go of my desire for this to be different,

My desire for this to be better,

My attachment,

My me,

How can I actually help Danny?

I want this person not to suffer how can I actually help him?

And maybe it's actually just a kind ear,

Maybe it's a link to a resource,

Maybe it's helping them sift through their negative thoughts,

Maybe it's none of these because it makes it worse,

Maybe we can't help,

Maybe we can't help depressive Danny or you know this complain-y person or you know a malicious person either,

Maybe we can't help and in these instances we need to accept okay I can't help and at least try if we're vulnerable to it to not take on that emotional pain or make the situation worse by rejecting him or feeling short with him or impatient with him.

It's almost like putting a protective bubble around my mind,

My well-being.

Again same with somebody who is malicious,

Somebody who is hurtful,

Someone who is harmful in that way you know so we think of depressive Danny we think about how he's hurting,

Now we think about this malicious person,

This person who hurts others who's harmful in their behavior.

Why do people do that?

Quite often,

Not always but quite often they are hurting themselves you know they are hurting and actually the way they behave is more about them rather than you.

It's less about the target and more about how they're feeling inside.

How often do people say harmful things,

They act in a rude way,

They are short with you,

They are aggressive with you,

They're impatient with you and it was never really about you and what you said and what you're doing but it was more about how they're feeling.

You know maybe they're going through a difficult time,

They are going through a divorce or maybe they're just like that right but it's more about them and less about you but we make it about us,

We make it about you know oh it's because I'm not doing very well or he doesn't think well of me or this or that you know and but it was never about you,

It was always about how he was feeling potentially you know so we can acknowledge that and then maybe hurting inside.

Perhaps they are harmful on purpose,

That's possible too you know perhaps they know what they're doing,

Why would they do that?

Because again on some level,

Some twisted level it brings some pleasure,

It brings some satisfaction and again what an upsetting mind to live in,

What an upsetting world to live in,

Where you harm others to feel good.

The kind of negativity that they're inviting into their life,

Into their heart,

The negative karma,

Heavy negative karma they're accruing by harming others,

Being constantly rude,

Upsetting to other people,

Again what a terrible mind to be in.

So again compassion for their sake,

For everyone's sake.

May they be free of suffering,

May they let go of these causes of suffering,

May they realise the true way to feel happiness.

Alexandra saying maybe depressive Danny needs to be given some boundaries,

Absolutely.

I said that earlier you know there will be many where the external external solution works,

Boundaries,

Spending less time with this person or less topics,

These kinds of things but there will be people and I remember some people from when I used to work in in the hospital.

I remember people who you just can't stop and you can hide in the bathroom,

Hide in the kitchen,

They will always find you and you just can't put the boundaries in,

You try but it just doesn't work and so it's why what can we do in those situations.

So ultimately what I want to say,

I know we're getting to the end of our hour,

Is don't let people snuff out your goodness,

Your love,

Your joy,

Your inner peace.

We all have within us Buddha potential,

We all have that goodness within us.

At times we can feel vulnerable to other people's influence but it doesn't have to be that way with some training.

As I said earlier we have the power to choose how we feel,

That is possible.

If someone is rude to us,

Help them,

Show them kindness,

Smile,

Continue to be a light,

Continue to be a beacon of joy and generosity even in the face of that rude obnoxious behavior.

No matter what people do,

No matter how they behave,

That is on them.

You are a wonderful person,

You're on a path,

You're cultivating all these virtuous positive qualities of patience,

Compassion,

So continue to do so.

Take adversity in the form of a difficult person as a lesson,

Life showing you where you're still vulnerable and don't allow yourself to take the hit,

Become the victim but let your Buddha nature shine through.

Decide that you know I'm gonna take this adversity,

Turn it into the path,

How can I respond with the best mind,

Who do I want to be,

What kind of life do I want to live.

If someone is rude to you,

Who cares?

Their attitude and their ignorance doesn't have to affect you,

Only you can affect you.

Simply treat their rudeness with a smile and a thank you.

Tell them to have a great day,

To enjoy their day,

Kill them with kindness.

I think about people who work in hospitality,

Such incredible people,

Such patients to do that kind of job.

People,

When they're many,

Not all people but some people,

When they're paying for something,

When they feel like they're paying for service,

They feel like they get the right to own you and own what you give them.

That's their problem,

That's their thinking,

Their issue.

Smile,

Let your generosity and kindness and joy come through,

Let you be you know who you want to be.

Put kindness out into the world and you'll receive the fruits of those actions.

It might not be from those people but you will,

You'll receive that back.

So these things,

They're not easy and really to get to talk about this with real justice,

An hour is not enough,

There's so much,

There's so much more to do here.

I'm just gonna have a little look through comments,

If anybody else wants to share anything please do.

I can see Andrew here saying,

Malicious people go through life thinking they're right,

They don't seem to,

Oh it scrolled me down,

They don't seem to even realize what they're doing to others,

Very true.

So why don't we all just go around doing whatever they're like.

I agree he's hurting,

Hurt people hurt people,

He doesn't seem to realize he's in that destructive mindset.

They're oblivious and won't change because they don't think they need to,

You're absolutely right.

And so then it's about what can I do in the face of this kind of person,

How can I protect my peace of mind,

My well-being in the face of this difficult people.

Alexandra,

Why would people be depressed about,

Scrolling,

About depressive Danny,

What are your thoughts on that,

Your deeper reasoning?

It's a really good question if we're not that way inclined and the reason is because people don't want to experience unhappiness,

Displeasure,

Being around somebody who is sad or hurting or experiencing negative thoughts.

If we're quite emotionally vulnerable we take on that energy,

We take on that unhappiness and we don't want to experience unhappiness.

And so people avoid people like that,

Like depressive Danny,

Because it's too hard to be around them because of their thinking of self,

They're thinking of me,

My suffering,

I don't want to be around that person because they make me feel uncomfortable.

It's very self-focused.

Whereas when we turn that around,

Stop cherishing self but cherishing others,

Thinking about Danny,

Then that doesn't even fit,

It doesn't even compute does it,

That way of looking at it.

At least that's my thoughts,

My reasoning,

There'll be many other reasonings I'm sure.

Andrea is saying allow your light to shine,

I don't let anyone dim your light,

Absolutely.

So thank you everyone for your time today.

If anybody wants to suggest any topics for me to discuss or perhaps I didn't touch on something today that you think I should have,

Please feel free to let me know,

You can join our group here on Insight Timer,

Follow me here on Insight Timer,

You're welcome to email me,

Contact me anyway and I'm very very happy to discuss and share and be debated as well because the Buddha's teachings,

It's not just to believe or to say well the Buddha says it's true so I believe that concretely.

It's all about experience isn't it,

It's checking this,

Does this fit,

Does patience actually change this,

Does compassion change this,

If so great,

If not why not,

Let's check it.

So thank you very much,

Andrea saying thank you Kirsty,

Nuria,

Thomas,

It's been fabulous,

Thank you Sean,

Great talk,

I've been visiting a friend to lend a help and it's not been easy,

His depression seemed contagious but this is on me,

Yeah it's really not difficult,

It really isn't,

I commend you for that,

I really do and if there's anything I can do to help please do reach out.

Kirsty reminded to make it not about us,

Absolutely that's the self-cherishing mind,

How dare children play when I'm trying to meditate,

What a mind.

So it's good to check these things isn't it,

Rob saying thank you,

Lynn saying thank you.

Okay so that brings us to the end of our hour,

It's been a real pleasure to to talk about this with all of you,

Thank you for your engagement,

For putting comments in,

Challenging what I'm saying,

I love that always,

So I hope you all have a wonderful week,

I hope I'll see you again next every Tuesday 10 a.

M.

My time,

We do a meditation here on Insight Timer and very shortly,

Very soon next month,

Tuesday evenings this time,

I'm going to be starting a study group through our own website looking at the text,

The Buddhist text,

The 37 practices of Bodhisattva,

So we're going to do a study group on that,

So if you're interested in that please do follow me,

Come to our website and you'll be able to see some more details about that soon.

So thank you everyone,

It's been a real joy,

I wish you well in every way.

Reviews

Great talk but sometimes a little too fast and hard to understand certain words. Liked the openness of the discussion. Namaste

Exactly what I needed 💛 It's so funny how as soon as I logged into Insight Timer this talk popped up and it's EXACTLY what I was dealing with at work ❤️ Wow, this helped me have a happy day at work. I will continue to practice! Thank you❣️