Love - A Chemical Hijack

Sadhguru explores the different dimensions of love – from the love between a man and a woman which he contends is chemically supported by nature to perpetuate herself, to being in a state of awareness to create a sweetness of mind, body, emotion and energy to become naturally loving.

Yogi, mystic and visionary, Sadhguru is a spiritual master with a difference. An arresting blend of profundity and pragmatism, his life and work serves as a reminder that yoga is a contemporary science, vitally relevant to our times.

Transcript

So Sadhguru,

When we went to the Dhyanalingam,

Here's what I've noticed,

Both at the course that I did with you,

There was… and the Dhyanalingam,

The more people see you,

Even from a distance,

There's a sudden outpouring of love,

Complete outpouring of love.

So let's talk about love.

This is one kind of a love.

Is a… what happens?

Is there something… is it a release?

That could be one thing,

With the see you and their own stresses and emotional release.

On the other hand,

Is there some kind of energy that you're transmitting to them?

Is that energy possible only in a loving relationship,

Even between you and the people or between people themselves?

What is that energy called love?

And then let's relate it to man and woman because that's a love most of us know.

Love or hate,

Whichever you like it,

But let's talk about love or the energy that is love.

There is no such thing as an energy that is love.

Life is a certain energy.

You are a certain life energy.

The many parts of this life energy is finding expression as thought,

As body,

Physical action,

Emotion.

And there are other dimensions of course,

Energy action.

If you can perform only physical activity in your life,

The span and the scope of that activity is very limited.

Because you empower your physical activity with your mental activity,

Depending upon the keenness and the intensity of your mental activity,

Your physical activity takes on a different level of… as if it moves into a different dimension because the mental activity.

If you make a movie,

If it's all physical,

It's one way.

There is a certain intellect involved in it,

It's another way.

There's a certain emotion involved in it,

It's another way,

Isn't it?

So that's so with life also.

So these are different levels of intensity.

Physical is at one level of intensity,

Intellectual is another level of intensity,

Emotion is a different level of intensity.

Generally people are looking down upon emotion as something less than intellect,

Which is a very wrong thing they're doing,

Which I think slowly people are realizing they're talking about emotional intelligence now.

Because emotion is capable of being of a higher intensity than intellect in many ways.

Intellect has a certain coolness,

Intellect has a certain penetration,

But emotion can just embrace everything.

Intellect can know pieces of life,

Emotion can know the wholeness of life.

So this is the reason why spiritual traditions always have made devotion the biggest thing,

Because a devotee looks like a fool to an intellectual person.

But what a devotee knows in terms of life's experience and what he knows in terms of perception of life in its totality,

An intellectual person will never touch.

So a devotee looks like a fool,

But the real fool is elsewhere.

So right now what's happening here when people are around me,

Is neither intellect nor emotion nor body.

It's another dimension,

Which is.

.

.

Which is just pure reverberation of energy.

If I reverberate in a certain way,

Some people will roll their eyeballs upward and simply sit there.

Some people will cry,

Some people will laugh,

Some people feel that they realize so many things being there in that space.

This is their expression of it.

This is like if I give you electric connection,

Somebody makes light out of it,

Somebody makes sound out of it,

Somebody makes coolness out of it,

Somebody makes heat out of it.

Different gadgets are making different things out of the same electricity.

So my thing is just to exude that energy.

Somebody makes love out of it,

Somebody makes alertness out of it,

Somebody makes awareness out of it,

Somebody makes meditativeness out of it.

That's left to that individual depending upon his level of evolution and his receptivity as to how he is.

So am I creating a love energy?

There's no such thing as love energy,

There's just life energy.

There is only life energy.

You can.

.

.

Love is just one expression of life.

Intellect is another expression of life.

Physical action,

Another expression of life.

Awareness,

Another expression of life.

So life can find million forms of expression.

But people eulogizing one over the other is a huge mistake.

All of them are needed.

Love without the needed awareness and balance is going to be horribly burdensome.

Isn't it?

So,

You know,

These days it's become a fashion to talk like this.

Love is the core of the universe.

Love is a human emotion.

It's got nothing to do with the universe.

Love is the sweetness of your emotion.

Let me put it this way.

See,

If your physical body becomes pleasant,

We call this health.

If it becomes very pleasant,

We call it pleasure.

If your mental structure becomes pleasant,

We call this peace.

If it becomes very pleasant,

We call this joy.

If your emotional structure becomes pleasant,

We call this love.

If it becomes very pleasant,

We call it compassion or devotion.

If your very energy becomes very pleasant,

We call this bliss.

If it becomes extremely pleasant,

We call it ecstasy.

This is all that's happening.

So when I walk in,

There are certain people who become ecstatic.

There are some people who become loving.

There are certain people who become aware and meditative,

But it's their doing.

It's their gadgetry is like that.

All I am doing is exuding life energy with utmost intensity.

Sadhguru In the space that you're in now,

When you're with people,

Is it exuding out unintentionally now,

It's just exuding out or do you give… the nature of it is happening unintentionally because of the nature of your… who you are.

But when you're in certain situations,

It's intentional because people come to you only because they can benefit from you.

So if you don't offer that benefit,

That's being callous to their needs.

Sadhguru Okay,

So the gesture you just did,

Tell me about this because everybody comes,

I do that,

Everybody else does that.

Is that… Tell me about this gesture.

Is it a more receptive gesture or is it just a cultural thing?

See,

There are many aspects to this.

One thing is neurologically,

Today we know that there are lots of nerve endings in your palms.

Actually,

Your hands are speaking more than your tongue and your voice,

Actually.

So there's a whole science of mudras in yoga.

Just by holding your hand in different ways,

You can make the whole system function in different ways.

I think we have done the experiment with you,

Holding it this way,

Holding it that way.

It makes… You have already seen people sitting like this,

Sitting like this,

These kind of mudras,

Those kind of mudras,

Because hand can do wonderful things to the system.

So this is a certain mudra,

You can say.

This is known as namaste or namaskar.

It's a certain mudra.

The moment you place your hands together like this,

Your dualities are sort of your likes and dislikes,

Your dualities,

Your,

You know,

Cravings and aversions,

All these things are leveled out,

There is a certain oneness to your expression of who you are.

When you do this,

The energies are in a certain level of… it doesn't function diversely,

It functions as one,

That's one aspect.

And the reason why you're doing this is when you see a person,

This is the greeting in India is,

See,

If I look at your body,

I may like you,

I may dislike you.

If I look at your mind,

Again I may like you,

Dislike you.

If I look at your emotional structure,

I may like you,

I dislike you.

So when I meet a person,

I do not want to get entangled with this likes and dislikes.

I do not want to get entangled with that being.

The only intention of meeting a human being is either you can enhance his life or he can enhance your life.

Or both of us are enhancing each other's life.

Otherwise,

The people need not meet.

It's better they're alone.

Isn't it?

In some way you can enhance another human being's life or you benefit another human being's from another human being's life,

It's worth meeting.

Otherwise,

It's better people are by themselves,

They don't have to meet.

And that's how the spiritual structures are.

You're an ascetic,

You don't want to meet anybody because you're into certain kind of things yourself.

If you feel you can benefit by being with somebody or they can benefit by being with you,

You allow this.

Otherwise,

Don't bother.

You are not in compulsive need of company.

Only those people who feel terribly alone or lonely when they're alone,

They are in a compulsive need of company.

So if you're feeling lonely when you're alone,

It means you're in bad company.

If you don't enjoy the company of this person,

Obviously you're in bad company.

So you're looking for a better company.

Sadhguru,

In terms of the love that we know most and most talked about and many,

Many books are written about it and the largest discussed thing in this world is relationships.

So let's just take one relationship that is causing more angst than anything else is a man-woman love.

Just talk… Tell me about the nature of that and why does it cause that much angst and is there a spiritual potential,

Spiritual dimension to the nature of a man-woman love?

We've talked about feminine,

Masculine,

Male,

Female.

Is there something we can find in a marriage that takes it beyond the stresses and strains of an everyday practical marriage?

See,

There is no such thing as man-dog love,

Man-woman love,

Man-mother love,

Man-son love,

Man-daughter love.

There is no such thing.

Love is just a certain sweetness of emotion.

How you're arriving at it is the only question,

Isn't it?

The method.

Now,

We were looking at this.

We do this because when you see a person,

If you see body,

Mind,

Emotion,

This,

That,

You tend to like,

Dislike,

Get entangled,

All these things.

So first thing is when you meet a person,

You identify his ultimate nature.

There is a source of creation within him,

That's why he's created.

So the very source of creation within him,

First you bow down to that.

You're trying to establish a relationship with that because that's your aspiration with yourself also.

You're repeatedly asking,

Who am I?

So you're trying to find that answer everywhere.

First thing if you see whether that experience is there or not,

You're cultivating the direction towards that.

When I see you,

I can say,

Hi.

Instead of that I do this because first thing is you refer to the source of creation in the person,

Then maybe we'll interact on different levels.

We like the intellect of the person,

We talk to that.

We like the emotion of the person,

We hug them.

If we… you know,

If it's physical it goes in a different direction,

Whatever.

So the man-woman thing is a compulsive love affair.

Nature is pushing you towards each other because nature is interested in only one thing,

To perpetuating herself.

If it somehow doesn't put a man-woman together,

You and me wouldn't be here.

So whether they love each other or not,

That's not the question,

They have to come together somehow,

Otherwise you and me wouldn't be born.

So this is a compulsive need.

This need is throwing people together to experience some sense of oneness.

This is one love affair chemically supported by nature.

All the other love affairs are not chemically supported by nature,

It is just yours.

But this is one love affair which is chemically supported by nature.

For most of these love affairs,

Unfortunately,

Once the chemistry runs out,

They wonder why the hell are they together.

So before the chemistry runs out,

You are supposed to establish a different level of conscious love affair,

Which is beyond the chemistry.

If that doesn't happen,

It turns ugly.

So,

What is that love affair?

That is a conscious love affair.

Let's talk about that.

And let's take it further,

Is it… is there a potential spiritual dimension to it?

I'm not saying there has to be,

Is there a potential.

But let's first say,

When the chemistry… when the chemicals don't react anymore,

What reacts?

What… what is… what works?

What makes it work?

See,

Chemistry is of the body,

Okay?

The bodily chemistry plays up certain things according to its needs.

The moment the need is satisfied,

You wonder why the hell are you here,

Okay?

So that is a very different kind of thing.

That is nature's trick.

You are… Like you are ten,

Eleven years of age,

The world was… everything fine with it.

Suddenly,

Your intelligence got hijacked by your hormones.

Suddenly the whole world looks different,

All of a sudden.

So all that's happened is,

Your intelligence got hijacked by the hormones.

The chemistry has hijacked you.

Very,

Very few individuals have the necessary awareness to look beyond that at life.

Everybody else get flooded by this process.

By the time they recover,

Usually it's too late.

Not necessarily.

So is it something wrong or right?

There's nothing wrong or right,

It's just limited,

That's all.

Is being limited a crime?

No.

But the nature of the human being is such,

He suffers limitations.

He doesn't like it.

So what you're referring to as love is basic… basically the sweetness of your emotion.

You sit here,

You could feel love about somebody who is not even here.

So it's got nothing to do with anybody.

It is just the sweetness of your emotion.

Now is your love affair,

Your ability to love,

Is it on self-start or is it on push-start?

Do you have to push around to be loving or can you be just loving by yourself?

That's the question.

If you look at this carefully,

Naturally your innermost longing is to be free of every human being on the planet,

To be free of everything so that you can be just the way you want to be.

But right now socially we have attached ourselves to all these things because we think that's the only way it works.

That is the way it has worked for lot of people because lot of people are only have to be pushed,

Only then they… something happens to them.

It is what to say,

A rudimentary technology.

If your car has to be pushed every day,

Today we consider it a rudimentary technology,

Isn't it?

Maybe fifty,

Sixty years ago,

A push-start car was quite okay.

As long as it starts it was okay,

But not anymore.

So once a human being becomes more and more aware of his own nature,

He understands to experience love,

To experience blissfulness,

To experience ecstasy,

Even to experience orgasmic ways of life,

You don't need anybody actually.

If you just sit here,

You can make it happen within yourself because after all it's your body,

It's your mind,

It's your emotion,

It's your chemistry and you are the one who has creating all the experiences of your life.

Because people are not conscious of this,

That you are the maker of your life,

You are the one who is doing your life the way you want it.

Most people still believe that their experiences are being shaped by people and situations around them,

But that's not true.

Human experiences are one hundred percent self-created,

One hundred percent.

So if it's self-created,

Right now if you sit here,

Would you choose to maintain sweetness of your mind,

Sweetness of your body,

Sweetness of your emotion,

Sweetness of your energy or would you like something bitter?

Yeah,

I'd prefer sweetness.

Sweetness.

So you would naturally be loving.

It doesn't take anybody.

So a relationship,

When you see a man and a woman,

You're talking about a relationship because there are other aspects to it.

There may be a social angle to it,

There may be a physical angle to it,

There may be a psychological angle to it,

There may be an economic angle to it.

The variety of other things to fulfill in a relationship.

We form relationships with variety of people in our lives.

You have business relationships,

You have personal relationships,

You have professional relationships.

So relationships we form basically to fulfill different types of needs or to fulfill somebody else's needs,

Whichever way it is.

That is a relationship.

But what you refer to as love is just the sweetness of your emotion.

You can use another person to stimulate that within you or you can be self… on self-start mechanism.

But it's possible for two people together,

They've been together… beyond the chemistry,

The chemical or the hormones,

To be self-start… to be starters for each other and continue that relationship.

I mean,

Do you see value in that?

Do you see value in people staying together for so long?

In a marriage,

Beyond duty,

Beyond say,

Okay,

We have children,

We have to do it together or society expects us to… Sadhguru See,

There is a certain beauty for two human beings to weave their lives as one.

There is a certain sense of… see,

If you have to really be with somebody,

You have to give up a part of yourself in some way.

So the English expression,

Falling in love is very significant.

You can only fall into it.

You can't stand in it,

You can't climb in it,

You have to fall into it.

Falling means some part of you has to go to accommodate another,

Which is a good thing for a human being to do,

That he is… doesn't think too much of himself… one who thinks too much of himself cannot be in a love affair.

Somewhere you have to surrender a part of yourself to be in a love affair.

In that sense,

It's a very beautiful thing.

Sadhguru But in this weaving,

As you called it,

Is it possible for you to be with another person that becomes… and I'm just guessing here,

That becomes the conduit towards your own self-realization.

Is that a possibility?

Is that a re… could that be a basis of relationship?

Sadhguru It is definitely a possibility,

But it's a risky possibility.

Sadhguru Okay,

I understand that,

Right.

Sadhguru You may just get entangled and lost in so many complexities of a relationship,

Rather than finding the ultimate nature.

I'm not saying it's not possible,

It's very much possible.

So that is why in India,

When we got people married,

We tried… tied what's called as Mangal Sutra.

Today it's just a thread,

A ritualistic thread.

But that's not how it originally started.

There is a way of taking a strand of energy from you and your partner and tying it up in a certain way,

So that beyond your logic,

Beyond your understanding,

Beyond your psychological,

Emotional and physical needs,

Somewhere deep inside,

Two beings are tied together.

Two lives are tied together.

So a lot of people cannot understand how these two people are together,

Because nothing seems to be common in them,

But still they're like one,

Because on another level,

They're tied up.

This can happen because of the physical proximity and the intimacy of the whole relationship.

But even before you start it,

We have a whole technology as to how to tie up two lives together.

So we always said that this is a lifelong thing,

You cannot break it.

If you break it,

You have to tear two lives apart,

Because it was not just an arrangement,

It was a kind of a union.

If you listen to all the mantra,

Standard and the weddings,

They're always talking about this,

How these two beings are being welded together,

Okay?

So anyway,

You come from Bollywood,

And there was a time,

Thirty years ago,

Twenty-five years ago,

Every song was talking Janam,

Janam,

Janam.

Now they're talking expiry date.

So the whole context of relationships have changed,

Which is… which I feel is sad because the profoundness of being with another being has been lost in this.

In the name of freedom,

In the name of choice,

Actually you're becoming horribly compulsive.

It's all about yourself.

When it's all about yourself,

You will not know the beauty of life.

So these marriages,

Which were done in a certain way,

Was never about you,

It was always about the other person.

Both the people,

If they think like this,

It's about the other person,

It's a beautiful place to be.

If only one person thinks like that,

It becomes exploitation.

If both the persons don't think like that,

It's just a compulsive relationship.

Me trying to extract something from you,

You trying to extract something from me,

It's a conflict situation all the time.

When we are through with our hormones,

Nature has very little use for us.

Nature likes to reproduce itself,

It likes all its components.

When we're done with the hormones and we're done with the chemicals,

Why does nature give us the potential to still exist in this body if it's done with us,

If we've done what nature required us to do?

No,

No,

Reproduction is just only one requirement.

Okay?

Okay.

Reproduction is not the whole of life.

It is only one requirement.

Nature compulsively wants you to reproduce because it wants to perpetuate itself.

It is neither a good thing nor a bad thing.

It is just a certain necessity of nature.

See,

Suppose the whole world turned acidic,

Then we would be forcing everybody to get married,

Isn't it?

Yeah.

I'm asking you this question with a very specific idea because everybody today talks about it and everybody's confused about what health really is because every… the messages coming across are so different.

Health and longevity are the two things everybody talks around and sometimes I feel,

I feel when I look around myself that is… what is your value,

A,

Living beyond a certain age and… but B,

Living beyond a certain age,

Is there something inherent in us that actually could keep us healthy or do we always need outside help from doctors and hospitals?

Because if… if… if there was something inherent in us,

Then maybe I would believe that nature has an intention to keep us alive.

Nature didn't have an intention to keep you alive,

You would be dead.

Even now,

You're alive not because of medicine that you're taking or the hospital consultation that you're having,

Not because of the health checkups,

Because nature still intends that you should live.

The life process is capable of living,

That's why it's living.

Not because of medicine,

It's living.

One can play around a little bit,

Cannot create life as such.

See,

There are many ways to look at it.

I'm… I'm trying to put it in a very simplistic way.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan No,

You don't have to.

I'm simplistic enough,

So don't worry.

Because if there's no way to put it in a simple way,

Then say it the way you want and I'll ask you the simplistic,

Naive question again.

Sadhguru The thing is,

This very body that you carry was created from within,

Isn't it?

You provided raw material from outside,

But the creation process happened from within.

So obviously,

The source of creation is within or the manufacturer of the body is within.

So if you have a repair job to do,

Would you like to go to the manufacturer or to the local mechanic?

If you have access to the manufacturer,

That's the place you would like to go.

Because a manufacturer knows much more about this machine than a local thinker,

Isn't it?

But if you have lost access,

Then you have to deal with the local thinker.

So to generate health,

Trying to fix it from outside is a very effortful process.

If you keep access to the innermost core,

Health will be a natural phenomena.

It's not something that you have to manage.

It's not at all something that you have to manage from outside.

It's a very wrong perception.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan So the idea of spirituality being the… being in touch with your inner self and your relationship to all of existence naturally promotes health without you having to think about it.

Is that true?

Sadhguru See,

Today it is scientific knowledge,

Common medical knowledge that every cell in the body is programmed for health.

Naturally,

It is programmed for health.

If it is programmed for health,

Why would it work against you?

See if you get an infection.

An infection means it's kind of an invasion from external organisms.

They need to be dealt with.

It's a war situation.

You need to put some… do some chemical war on them and kill them and do whatever you have to do to recover from that situation.

That's a different thing.

But more than seventy percent of the ailments on this planet are chronic.

That means they're self-created.

They're created within your… within your own body by your own system.

Why would this system,

Which has an immense desire to exist and survive,

Would create ailment or something against itself?

Somewhere,

Some fundamentals have gone off,

Isn't it?

So if you keep in touch with the innermost core,

Which is the source of creation,

Which is the manufacturer of the body,

Which is the maker of this body,

Health is not even something that you have to think of.

Too much… what I see is,

Especially as societies get affluent,

Health is a… I don't know,

The way they're talking about health in the Western societies,

It's like a full-time occupation.

Day in and day out,

From morning to evening,

They're only talking about their health.

This is the major conversation everywhere,

Isn't it?

And young,

Twenty-five-year-olds,

Twenty-six-year-olds are talking about,

In a competitive way,

I'm healthier than everybody else.

Health is not something that you need to discuss or talk or aspire for.

If you keep the system in a certain way,

Health,

It exudes by its own nature.

Would you describe that way as a meditative way?

I would like to,

But I would avoid the word meditation because it's so badly abused word.

If I say meditation,

Everybody has their own ideas of what may… what is meditation.

So I would say,

If you… if you as much as know what it means to simply sit here,

Absolutely still,

Everything still within you,

For two minutes in a day,

You'll be perfectly healthy,

Just two minutes.

Meditation is ill only because he does not know how to be still.

And if I'm perfectly healthy,

Then how does death come?

You must die healthy.

You must live healthy and you must die healthy.

So if I'm healthy,

How will I die?

Health has got nothing to do with death.

Death will happen when your life energies lose their vibrance.

They will lose their vibrance because right now they are vibrant in a certain way because of a certain software input.

This software traditionally,

We call this as prarabdha.

Prarabdha means a certain dimension of your karmic information.

It has a certain amount of information latched on to your life energy.

So it keeps working in a certain way.

Once this software has worked itself out or that much information which is allotted has worked itself out,

Which is the prarabdha karma,

Then the energy start becoming feeble.

If the energies become feeble below a certain level,

They cannot hold on to the body,

They have to leave the body.

Or if it becomes intense beyond a certain body,

It cannot hold on to the body.

So only in a certain frequency of intensity,

Your life energies can hold on to the physical body,

Otherwise they cannot stick to the body.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Or the body is incapable of holding that intensity.

Sadhguru Let's put it the other way around.

It is just that an energy which is beyond a certain intensity refuses to be bound by a body.

An energy which is below a certain level of intensity is incapable of being housed in a body.

So if it becomes feeble,

It leaves.

That's called old age.

But most people don't die of old age.

They die because they broke the body in some way.

That's dying of ill health.

You might have broken the body by crashing your car or breaking up your heart.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan I'll probably go because of that,

Yeah.

Sadhguru Either a broken heart or a rotten liver,

We don't know what.

But in some way you made the physical body inhospitable for life.

So life leaves.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan See,

You're making a big distinction between the body and life,

Life is something else and that's something that everybody struggles with.

So let's… Sadhguru No,

No,

You tell me,

Did you accumulate this body?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Yes,

I did.

I'm eating.

Sadhguru I'll ask you again the same question.

Whatever you accumulate can be yours,

Cannot be you,

Isn't it?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Correct.

Sadhguru So I'm definitely making a distinction between what is you and what is your body,

Because it's an accumulation.

I'm not disputing whether it's yours or not.

For now we will not dispute it.

A day will come when that will also come to dispute.

Isn't it?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan So now that you've mentioned it,

Let me ask you another question because I travel a lot of the West and I have no answer and I find it a silly question.

So I'm going to ask you a silly question.

What happens to that energy once the body is gone?

Is there individuality after the end of the body?

Do I exist as I?

Do I have a soul?

Is there reincarnation?

Or is it just my ego that is saying,

Actually even when I let my body go,

There is an I that still exists.

But if that I then forms part of the larger universe,

Then it has no identity.

It's a question and I can't answer it to people,

So would you answer it for me so I can tell people that I'm quite wise now?

I know what you'll do with this.

So essentially you're saying you want to know what happens after death.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Yeah.

I'm just making a more intellectual argument about it,

That's all,

But the fundamental question is that.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan What I would say is some things you know best only by experience.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Okay.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Are you ready?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Yeah.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan You're not ready for the experience.

So you just want to know for entertainment.

Maybe they make a movie on it or just to talk in the next party that you're in.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Yeah.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan It could buy you friends.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan So humor me.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan It could buy you audience.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan So humor me a little bit and let's talk about it a little bit.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Okay.

Right now you're looking at me.

If you close your eyes you cannot see me,

But you are still there,

Isn't it?

So right now is it you who is looking at me or is it your eyes which are looking at me?

So it's you who is looking at me.

Through the window of your eyes you're looking at me.

If you close the window,

Do you still exist?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan I still exist.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan So you are clearly saying you are much more than the body,

Isn't it?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Right.

But maybe that's my memory of you,

Of what I saw.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan No,

Not what you… whether you see my image or not,

That's not the point.

But you are there,

Isn't it?

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan I'm there,

Yes.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan So you are clearly saying I am much more than the body.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Yes.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan And you also know very clearly that this body you slowly accumulated.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Yes.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Or in other words,

What you call as my body is just a bit of loan that you have taken from other earth,

Just a piece of the planet.

She is pretty generous.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan No,

It's very generous.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan She is pretty generous with the loan.

But when the time comes,

She wants to collect it atom by atom.

So what is being perceived as death right now is,

People who don't want to repay the loan… You know,

These are all people who don't want to repay the loan.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan All right.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Most… Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Okay.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Most people… Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Like the transaction analysis of that.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Most people who have taken loan,

Unless there is a law to compel them,

They wouldn't want to pay back the loan.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Right.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan It's general social tendency in the world.

So you've taken a loan from the planet,

You don't want to pay back.

When the time to pay back comes,

They are all terrorized.

After all,

You're just paying back a loan.

But why the terror is happening is,

Simply because you took a loan and after some time you thought,

I am the loan.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Right.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Quite a ridiculous situation actually.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan You can see that.

Okay.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan See,

Now I hold this pebble in my hand.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Yeah.

Dr.

Jayaprakash Narayanan Initially I say,

This is my pebble,

I'm not willing to give it to you.

After some time,

I start thinking,

This is me.

Now when the time comes that anyway this pebble is going to be taken from me,

I am being terrorized because I am being taken away.

You are not being taken away.

Only the food that you gathered,

The piece of planet that you gathered in the form of this body,

The planet is asking it back.

If only you are aware this is only something I've accumulated,

Not intellectually,

Every moment if you are constantly aware that I am not this body,

This is just mine all right,

It's just a gathering.

I've accumulated this,

I'll use it and when it's necessary I'll drop it.

If this awareness was there all the time in your life,

Death would be just change of clothes,

Isn't it?

Yeah.

It's actually more simple than that.

So what happens after,

Okay I paid back the loan.

The question is only willingly or unwillingly,

But whichever way the loan gets taken.

So when the body is confiscated,

If you are a yogi,

You will pay it back gracefully.

If you are an ignorant person,

They'll confiscate your properties.

Because you're illegally holding it beyond a certain time,

They'll confiscate.

So what happens after?

Your body as you know it,

Physical body has to go to the earth because it belongs to the earth.

But there is a subtler body which is like a scaffolding.

Only because a subtle body is there as a scaffolding,

You can build this gross body.

You eat a banana,

It becomes body,

You eat a piece of bread,

It becomes body,

You eat a brinjal,

It becomes body because there is a subtler scaffolding.

This body that you see,

The physical body is only gathering around the subtler body.

So when this body falls,

The subtle body,

Which is generally referred to as etheric body or whatever else,

Is still on.

It still has some information.

But the important difference is,

When you had a physical body and a conscious mind,

You had a discriminatory capability.

So once the body falls down along with your thinking mind,

Logical mind and the discriminatory aspect of the mind is fallen,

There is no more discrimination.

You only happen by tendencies.

So still there are certain tendencies.

Why so much care in every culture,

Particularly in this culture,

That at the moment of death,

If a man is dying,

No matter what your relationship with him,

You try to utter the God's name or you try to create the right kind of atmosphere for him.

Even if he's your enemy,

You say Ram,

Naam,

Sathya,

Whatever,

You know,

Whatever simple things have been taught to the people,

But something to create awareness and pleasantness around him because you want him to live well.

Because at the moment of leaving,

In case he's in a certain mode,

Whatever the mode is,

Let's say he's in fear mode right now.

Now once he loses the discriminatory mind,

Now there's no control over the fear.

See,

Many times fear arises in your life.

Because of your discriminatory mind,

You'll say,

That's okay,

But that it's not like this.

You'll reason and try to get out of it.

If there is no discriminatory mind,

It just snowballs into paranoia.

Paranoia not like as human… living human beings know,

Paranoia which grows into a million,

Billion folds because there's complete absence of discriminatory mind.

But suppose you create pleasantness at that moment of death.

Now this pleasantness also multiplies into a million fold over because there is no discriminatory mind.

A child is eating chocolate,

Very sweet.

He has no discriminatory mind.

His discriminatory mind is not strong enough.

Okay,

I've eaten two chocolates,

It's enough.

No,

He wants to eat two thousand.

Whether it's sweetness or bitterness,

Pleasantness or unpleasantness,

All of this can take on a big proportion if only there is no discriminatory mind.

So even when people are living,

Very little of their discriminatory mind they're using,

Mostly they're functioning by tendency,

Which is unfortunate.

But once you've shed the body,

There is no other way.

You will only go by tendency unless you've reached a certain level of awareness where you can carry a certain dimension of awareness with you.

Otherwise,

Whatever is your quality will snowball into something very big.

If it snowballs into unpleasantness,

We say he's in hell.

If it snowballs into pleasantness,

We say he's in heaven.

So heaven and hell are not geographical places.

It is a state that somebody gets into.

Because once the discriminatory mind is removed,

Smallest pleasure can multiply into a heavenly proportion.

Smallest unpleasantness can multiply into a hell-like situation because the discriminatory mind is absent.

And then reincarnation… you want to come back now.

So if there is substantial amount of information still stored,

Which is the karma,

The karmic substance is still strong,

Then once… suppose you left out of feebleness of energy,

That is you became old,

Energies became feeble and it rested for some time.

So this kind of life energy just rests for some time without too much activity.

But suppose the energies did not become feeble,

But you broke the body by accident or suicide or somebody shot you in the head or you… somebody broke your heart,

Whichever way,

You broke the body and you left,

Energies were still intense.

Now this will take a long time for it to become feeble without the body and the mind.

If you had a regular body and the discriminatory mind,

Let us say you would have worked out your karma in the next ten years and made the energies feeble.

But now that you don't have a body,

These ten years may telescope into a thousand years.

So this is the reason always they told you should never die of suicide,

You never should be murdered,

Accidental death is bad,

Because now your limbo situation is long,

Very,

Very long because you have no discriminatory mind,

We don't know which way you will roll and the chances of finding another womb are very little because you are in a certain level of intensity you cannot find.

So unless you come to the right level of intensity,

You are not suitable to take on a new body.

So if you died of old age,

Energies became feeble,

You just… everything is fine with your body,

You went to bed and you never woke up.

Such a person may get back into another womb within forty-eight hours.

But a person who died by breaking his body,

Either by accident or otherwise,

This person may take,

We don't know how long,

Depending upon what level of intensity and how much of the information is still there,

Unworked out.

We are going into areas which is… which needs much more elaboration if it needs to be properly understood.

Doing just like this is not good.

That's why we always joke about it and skip,

We never talk about it because it will lead to all kinds of imaginations,

Unhealthy imaginations.

Lead me to believe in spirits and ghosts.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

It is not needed because then people start… every dark corner they see,

They'll start seeing things.

And you can make horror movies and make money because lot of people have wild imagination anyway.

Or tendencies.

No,

They are all existing by tendencies,

Not by… that is the whole difference.

When we talk spirituality,

We are essentially talking about moving from compulsiveness to consciousness.

Functioning through tendencies to functioning through discriminatory process.

That is the key from bondage to freedom.

Okay,

I understand why we need to change this topic because it can get very… it is much more complex than we are talking about now.

Yes.

It's too simplistic the way I am putting it right now.

Yeah.

Because then people will just say,

Oh there is or there isn't.

It's not there is and there isn't at the same time.

But maybe I can ask you very… okay,

This is all so complex because a lot of what you said today,

As you talked about a duality,

You talked about the nature of Shiva being contradictory,

You talked about everything existing in contextualization or contradiction.

One little word on the nature of duality,

The nature of our duality.

The interview is the basis of duality because there are two.

There is a question,

There is an answer.

This is duality.

But actually there isn't.

Only if you look at it on the surface,

This is true.

If you look deep enough,

There isn't two.

But if there wasn't two,

There would be no interviewer.

There would be no football game.

There would be no marriage.

There would be no nothing,

Okay?

So the oneness of the existence is the basis.

But the play is always dual.

There's nothing wrong with duality.

As long as you know,

It's just a play.

If I was to create a character in a film called Universe,

The Universe would say I'm one,

But if I have to play,

I have to be two.

Yes.

And then… but then essentially I'm one.

Yes.

But I don't exist till I play and therefore I have to be two without one taking more power than the other because otherwise it would… I would never get back to be one.

See,

That's the whole problem.

The human mind is dualistic.

So if you say there is oneness and then there is dual,

Immediately the human mind says,

So oneness is ultimate superior,

Duality is a fallen state.

This is the whole Adam and Eve story,

Okay?

This is a rudimentary logic which is splitting the world into two.

Yeah.

One last question,

Sadhguru.

And I will not say this interview ends because I will come back for more.

Because it can't be an end to this interview.

There is no end.

You know,

There is no end.

And one last question because I know people will say,

Well,

Why didn't you ask him about stress?

And I'll say,

Well,

Because I don't understand… I cannot define stress.

There's a lot of things that… A lot of the questions people ask me and they will know that since I've been interviewing you,

They'll say,

But I know that we get addicted to keywords,

But is there a… I mean,

What is… is there a definition that we can assign to the idea of stress?

I must tell you this,

When I first went to United States a few years ago,

Wherever I went,

Everybody was talking about stress management.

I really couldn't understand this because in my understanding,

We manage things which are precious to us,

Okay?

Our business,

Our family,

Our money,

Our wealth,

Our children,

We manage all these things because these are all things precious to us.

Why would anybody manage stress?

I couldn't get this.

When this word was thrown at me everywhere,

Stress management,

Stress management,

I said,

Why manage stress?

It took me a while to understand these people have concluded that stress is a part of their life.

Stress is not a part of your life.

Stress is just your inability to manage your own system.

Stress is not because of the nature of your work.

The prime minister is comp… complaining of stress.

The chaprasi also complaining of stress.

In between every other person saying his job is stressful and unemployed are stressful.

They don't have anything to do.

That also they're stressful.

So you're suffering your job.

If I get you fired,

Will you be joyful?

No.

No.

So stress is not about your job,

Obviously,

Isn't it?

It is just that you do not know how to manage your body,

How to manage your mind,

How to manage your emotions,

Your energy,

Your chemistry.

You do not know how to manage anything.

You are functioning by accident,

So everything is stressful.

You get into your car without a steering wheel or you get into your car,

If you turn this way,

It goes in the opposite direction.

You will be stressful,

Isn't it?

So right now that's the kind of mechanism you're driving,

Without understanding anything about it,

Just by chance you're going,

Blundering through life,

You will be stressful.

So stress is not because of the nature of the activity that you're performing,

Not because of life situations.

Stress is simply because you do not know how to manage your… your own system.

What is stressful for you,

Somebody is breezing through it,

Isn't it so?

Stress is not situational.

It is just an inability to manage the inner situation,

Not the outer situation.

Essentially the quality of our lives change and transform,

Not because we change the content of our lives,

Only because we have changed the context of our life.

Someone is living a beautiful life,

Does not mean he's doing something different when he wakes up in the morning.

He also goes to the toilet,

He also brushes his teeth,

He also does the same things.

But somehow his life is magical and beautiful because of the context.

This could have happened to people when they fall in love with somebody,

They were doing the same thing,

Suddenly they're in love with someone,

Suddenly everything is different because the context of their life has changed.

But then once they fall out of it,

Again the context of their life changes and it becomes miserable.

Now changing the context is something which is voluntary,

Which is just something that you can do willfully.

Changing the content may not be possible as you will,

Because to change the content of your life you need permission from the situations in which you exist,

Isn't it?

But to change the context of life you don't need anybody's permission,

It is not at all situational.

So on a certain day three men were working in one place.

Another man came by and asked the first man,

What are you doing here?

This man looked up and said,

Can't you see I'm cutting stone,

Are you blind?

This man moved on to the next man and asked,

What are you doing here?

That man looked up and said something,

Something to fill my belly,

I come here and do whatever they ask me to do,

I just have to fill my belly,

That's all.

He went to the next man,

The third man and asked,

What are you doing here?

That man stood up in great joy and said,

I'm building a beautiful temple here.

All of them are doing the same thing.

But their experience of what they're doing is worlds apart.

Every human being,

Every moment of his life could be doing whatever he is doing in any one of these three contexts and that will determine the quality of his life,

Not what he's actually doing.

How simple an activity you're doing or how complex an activity you're doing doesn't change the quality of your life.

With what context are you doing,

Changes the quality of your life,

Isn't it?

Okay,

Sadhguru,

I hope this is just the beginning and I hope you gave me the opportunity to come back with a lot more questions.

Thank you.

I'll see you next time.

Reviews

Exceptional insights, wise pragmatism and delightful humor. Thank you 🙏🏼

I can listen this wise man over and over I love his sense of humor and I learn a lot from him. Namaskaram Sadghuru you are such a blissful soul and you keep changing me everyday 🙏🏾
May I feel your energy in n every sphere of my life and forever 🙏🏾

Can’t wait to listen again. So good for my soul right now.

I'm speechless...Namaste! 🙏

I totally loved everything in this talk. I want to know Sadhguru, why do we feel sweetness of our own feelings to certain people. Is it just hormone or the past karmic connection? Thank you for openly and fearlessly sharing your wisdom.

It was good to hear the source of several snippets of conversation that I’ve listened to elsewhere on this app. Thanks, as ever, Sadhguru.

Always is a pleasure to listen the Sadhguru's audios. Whole of simplicity but a lot of wisdom.

All you need to about love is here in this talk. So i found this almost an hour long talk very succinct and thorough. So much to gain from it. Thank you Sadhguru.

As I listen I know truth is being spoken

Fabulous discussion of “stress” and soSOso much more! Such a gift! In gratitude, ahimsa

Brilliant! Thank you 🙏🏽

Some good insights.. thanks 🙏

Awesome—as always 🙏🏻

Thank you 😊🙏❤️

Such complex questions.
Such blissfully simple explanations.
As always, I loved listening to you.
Thank you so much.
Namaste 🦋🙏🏻