Guru: A Live Roadmap - Shekar Kapur With Sadhguru

In this candid discussion with internationally acclaimed film director Shekhar Kapur, Sadhguru converses about the concept of a Guru, on devotion and the all-inclusiveness of existence. He explains that yoga is about enhancing our faculties of perception to transform the way we experience the world. He also dwells on the masculine and feminine dimensions of life without which there can be no existence.

Transcript

A large part of the problem people have when they think about a guru is the guru's alive.

And if you look at the world,

Everybody keeps,

Everybody worships people that have passed away.

And so why is it so difficult for people?

Now,

I've known you as a friend,

I hug you as a friend,

But I can touch your feet because you're a realized man,

You're a guru.

How do people make the difference?

Because how do they then say,

Well,

He's a man after all,

And why is he claiming to be a realized man?

Because we believe all realized men only become realized when they're gone.

They have to be dead.

They have to be dead,

Yeah.

I'm trying to not use that word,

But yeah,

They have to be dead.

And that's a big problem.

So let's talk about that.

Anything that's good has to be dead.

I know.

Unfortunately,

Isn't it?

See,

This is because if you have to see value with what's here now,

You need a certain intelligence,

You need a certain awareness.

You have to employ your own intelligence.

Now,

Somebody was here a thousand years ago or two thousand years ago,

To say that he was great and worship him is very easy because a million people are saying so.

Everybody is fascinated by the past because generations of people have said so.

So you don't have to employ your intelligence or awareness to know what is the truth.

So even when Krishna was alive,

How many people really recognized him?

Duryodhana clearly said,

This guy can play with a child,

Fight with a man,

Make love to a woman.

He can gossip with old woman.

And this is no God,

This is a rogue.

So that's how they would have seen him.

Now,

Thousands of years later,

It's very easy because everybody is saying Krishna is God.

You also join up the gang and say it,

You're just joining a gang,

You're not seeing anything about Krishna as such.

So similarly everybody else.

But today if you have to recognize something that's alive in front of you,

You need certain capability,

Certain awareness,

Certain intelligence.

So when Jesus was alive,

You know what horrible things they did to him.

Now,

You know,

Half the world wants to worship him.

It doesn't mean anything actually,

Because when he was there,

Only a handful of people get it.

So let's talk about the concept of a guru.

What is a guru and how does one find a guru?

And why is it that different people have different gurus?

Why is there… like there's one god,

There could be one guru,

Right?

They said,

Okay,

Everybody goes there.

You're wrong.

In India we have thirty-six million gods and goddesses.

So what is a guru?

The word guru literally means,

Gu means darkness,

Ru means dispeller.

One who dispels your darkness is a guru.

You can call him a light bulb if you want.

He's on,

That's all.

So what you cannot see,

He's able to make you see.

So that's a guru.

Or to put it in other terms,

Essentially because you're trying to make a journey and you're seeking a guru,

He's like a roadmap.

He's like a live roadmap.

When you want to travel uncharted terrain,

You will find it's extremely important.

Roadmap is more than god.

So you will see in the tradition,

Guru is greater than god,

All this they're saying,

Because a live roadmap is more important than anything when you're lost in a unknown terrain.

So can't I find my way without a guru?

That's always the question.

This question is coming from a certain egoistic standpoint.

Why can't I do it myself?

See,

Do one thing,

Using a watch,

Right?

I'll give you all the parts for the watch.

You build your own watch,

Let me see.

Something… it's very simple.

I'm not asking you to build a computer or a spacecraft.

I'm just telling a simple thing like a watch.

Most people have gotten rid of their watches today because they're looking at time in their cell phones or computers.

So an obsolete instrument like this,

I'll give you all the parts.

You put it together,

Let me see.

You may take a lifetime,

I'm saying.

Something so simple.

So you go to your watchmaker for a watch.

So what's your problem going to a guru for something that you do not know?

Yeah,

But there is something different here.

Now when I walk around Isha,

As we'll see soon,

What I noticed among most people is… the closest I can describe it is devotion.

Some people would call it worship.

Now when you find a guru,

It's not an intellectual… I mean,

It's not… making a watch could be an intellectual exercise.

Yet finding yourself or finding something divine or living in the divine,

How much… what is this concept of difference?

Where do you come in with devotion and worship?

Can you… can your guru help you without a sense of divinity that you find in the guru?

So I've used three words – worship,

Devotion and non-intellectual.

Yes.

So,

Yes,

I don't know how to make a watch,

But I could transcend my present limitations and go into other dimensions.

Why do I need to seek that kind of support,

A subjective support?

Because a watch is something else.

The guru is dealing with you,

Okay?

Because you are the subject here,

Not another object.

So the devotion that you see around,

You must understand one thing,

At no point are we teaching devotion,

Are we encouraging devotion.

But why do people seem to be so,

You know,

Overwhelmed by the whole thing is… See,

Suppose you were in a desert and let's say you're really thirsty,

So thirsty that you thought you will die.

And if somebody gave you a glass of water,

Would it be not natural for you to bow down to him?

You don't have thoughts,

Oh,

This is God,

This is that,

That is… if you're trained that way.

Otherwise,

Simply as a human being,

Just out of gratitude,

Wouldn't you be overwhelmed and bow down to him?

So what you see here is just that.

Nobody has taught them that they should bow down,

Nobody has taught them they should be this way or that way,

That is not at all encouraged.

But because of what they have received,

The overwhelming nature of what they have received,

When that sense of overwhelming experience is happening within a human being,

To bow down is a very,

Very natural thing.

So why is it… I want to ask you this question,

Why is it the moment somebody begins to think that he's an intellectual,

He's against devotion?

I'm asking you,

You're a filmmaker,

Could you make a good film without being devoted to it?

No.

There's no passion,

There's no devotion,

There's no film.

There's nothing beautiful happens in your life.

So now the devotion is not exactly towards me as a person,

But the devotion is towards me as a possibility in their life,

Not me as a person.

So nobody creates anything truly worthwhile without being absolutely devoted to it.

It cannot happen.

Yesterday I went through this amazing experience with you.

It was a collective experience.

And then I saw your relationship with the meditators who were the volunteers in this incredible course that we did.

And there was something that connected you.

Now I've heard stories about this,

I've heard that as Jesus walked in,

That he spread this love and we always wondered how could you just spread love?

I saw that yesterday,

But I saw tears in their eyes.

We could explain that,

But I saw tears in your eyes because I saw a two-way relationship.

So let's just keep with this idea of a guru and tell me what is this two-way?

Because I saw you like a devotee,

You were like them.

When you went to them,

It was not just their emotion,

It was yours.

See,

Here you are using the word devotee.

I don't know whether they're devoted or not.

My life is devoted to them.

Okay,

That's for sure.

My whole life is devoted to every human being on this planet,

Every creature on this planet.

So,

Devotion is just a deeper love affair.

When I say a deeper love affair,

Generally these days at least,

People are understanding a love affair as some kind of a transaction of give and take.

Devotion is a deeper love affair of just absolutely giving.

Whether take is there or not,

Just doesn't matter and it doesn't occur in your mind.

So for me,

My love affair is just with everything that I set my eyes upon,

Whether it's a man,

Woman,

Child,

Animate,

Inanimate,

It doesn't matter.

Whatever I set my eyes upon,

I'm in a deep embrace with that.

So for me to come to tears,

I don't even have to look at a human being.

If I look at a cloud,

I'll come to tears.

If I look at a tree,

I come to tears.

If I close my eyes,

I'll come to tears.

So tears is not even about love.

If you tell me I'm in love with people,

I wouldn't feel that's a great thing.

I feel you're lowering the whole thing.

I'm not in love,

Because love is still a kind of a transaction.

This is a certain dimension of inclusiveness.

Actually in my experience,

There is nobody else in this planet,

Nobody else in this existence,

It's just me.

In my experience,

I don't see myself in somebody else,

I just see myself.

So this is not even devotion,

This is not even love.

This is just inclusiveness and this is not my idea,

This is not my philosophy.

This is the way existence is.

If you do not constipate your consciousness with… by being identified with limited things like your own body,

Your own mind,

Your own culture,

Your own religion,

Your own family,

Your own whatever,

If you… your own species for that matter,

If you do not constipate your consciousness with that kind of limitations,

The existence is all-inclusive.

Well,

Science can prove it to you today,

Isn't it?

So when you say that I see only myself,

You see everything embraced by as an inclusive idea.

Let's talk about that.

No,

This is not an idea,

That's what I'm saying,

Kavir.

See,

Inclusiveness is not an idea.

Today,

Modern science can clearly prove to you that this existence is just one energy reverberating in billions of beautiful ways,

But it's actually just the same thing.

So this is not an idea.

Science is telling you it's all one energy.

The religions of the world for a long time without knowing or not knowing what they're talking,

They've been screaming,

God is everywhere.

Whether you say God is everywhere or you say everything is one energy,

Are we talking about the same reality or a different reality?

It's the same reality we're talking about.

Here you're calling it energy,

There they're calling it God,

But it's the same thing.

So now the difference,

What is it that you're seeing here is the scientist has not experienced this.

He has only mathematically deduced this.

So intellectually knowing something may give you some satisfaction,

Some idea,

But it doesn't give you an experience.

Now a religious person has not experienced this.

He just believes it.

He just believes it.

So belief gives him an emotional experience.

Scientist gets an intellectual experience,

But not truly experience.

When I say experience,

Right now you experience this hands as yourself.

This is neither intellectual nor emotional,

It's just you.

So yogi is somebody who is not willing to settle for deductions or for belief systems.

He wants to know it head on himself.

So this is a hard nut.

He wants to know everything by his own experience.

So this can only happen if you are willing to enhance your perception.

See right now your perception has enhanced itself to a point where you experience the body as myself.

So why is it not me?

That's the question now.

Well,

This body was all over the place.

This is just the food that you've eaten.

In a way this body is just a piece of this planet.

So now I am saying if you are capable of including fifty kgs of planet as yourself,

What is the problem with the remaining tons?

So somewhere you have stopped yourself because of a limited identity.

So now the whole system of spiritual process is to take off that so that if you sit here,

As you experience your hands and limbs as yourself,

You experience the whole existence as yourself.

So this is the fundamental difference between spirituality and morality.

Here you know everything as myself,

So you know how to be with it.

Morality is you see everything as other,

But you are somehow trying to be in harmony with it and it's a struggle,

It's never worked.

So what you are saying really is when you see that when I look and I only see myself,

You are saying you are seeing eternity.

You are seeing all of existence when you look at yourself.

These are all big words.

I call it myself because it's simple.

And above all,

Every human being,

Whatever he may think,

Essentially he perceives world only through himself,

Whatever he may be.

He may think he is a great scientist,

But still he knows it only through the faculties of his perception.

So our whole work is to enhance the faculties of perception,

Not imagine.

So if your ability to experience the world can be enhanced by enhancing your perception,

Only what you perceive is real,

Rest is just hallucinatory,

Isn't it?

It's just made up by you.

You can make up one kind of story,

I can make up another kind of story,

We can make movies,

But you can't make reality.

Reality happens only by perception,

Isn't it?

So the whole work is only to enhance perception.

This is not about devotion,

This is not about love,

This is not about belief,

This is not about faith,

This is not about anything.

This is just about enhancing your perception,

Because only if you perceive,

You know,

Otherwise you do not know.

Okay.

So Sadhguru,

What I see here looks very much like if you go to Europe and there's this whole tradition on architecture called gargoyles,

And you call it a Ghana.

Yeah?

So tell me about it.

What is the relevance of this Ghana?

Sir,

You travel plenty in Europe,

Not much in India.

So Ghana,

These are all Shiva's friends,

Then called Ghanas.

And in the Puranas,

It's always… And the Puranas being?

The scriptures or the mythology,

People call it mythology today because some scholars labeled it that way.

Here it's the lore.

So the Ghanas are all Shiva's friends,

Always they were the people who were around him.

Though he had disciples,

Though he had a wife,

Though he had many other admirers,

He always kept company only with these people.

His private company was always Ghanas.

And Ghanas are described as distorted,

Demented beings.

Here it's not shown that way,

But actually they go to the extent of saying they had limbs without bones.

Okay?

They had limbs without bones coming out of odd parts of their body.

So they are described as distorted and demented beings.

What I am saying is,

They were just different.

They were different from who we are.

So why could they be so different?

This may be a little hard to digest aspect of life.

See,

Shiva himself has always been described as a Yakshaswarupa.

A Yaksh means a celestial being.

A celestial being means someone who came from elsewhere.

So if you look at the anthropological history of this planet,

Of the human species particularly,

Somewhere between 50 to 70,

000 years ago,

Human… human beings as a species suddenly took an upward turn.

Scientists are not very clear as far as I know.

I'm not hugely informed about science,

But from what little I know,

They're not very clear what happened.

In a short span of 10,

20,

000 years,

Something happened to human species.

They were just surviving on the planet like any other creature,

Slightly better.

Suddenly they took an upward turn.

What happened in those 10,

15,

000 years we do not know?

10,

15,

000 years is not a big amount of time for a species to evolve.

It's not a evolutionary kind of time.

But something happened.

So what the Indian way,

The yogic way of looking at it is,

Shiva arrived at that time,

Somewhere approximately 60,

65,

000 years ago,

Shiva arrived at Manasarovar.

And after he came… Which is in Tibet.

No,

It is in Tibet.

It's in Tibet,

Yes.

It's a lake,

Tibet,

Yeah.

This is part of the… this is a… this is one of the remnants of the Tethys Sea,

Which is considered as a crucible of human civilizations.

So today it's at over 14,

000,

14,

500 feet from sea level,

But it's actually a ocean which has moved up and become a lake now.

So the Ganas are his friends who are not like human.

And clearly it says they never spoke any of the human languages,

They spoke in utter cacophony.

Shiva and his friends,

When they communicated,

They spoke a language that nobody understood.

So people,

Human beings describe it as total chaotic cacophony is what they spoke.

But they were his friends,

They always hung around him.

He was the people… they were the people that he was really close with.

And you know the story of Ganapathy losing his head,

You know,

This boy that when he came,

He tried to stop him and he took off his head.

When the mother became distraught and asked him to replace a head,

He put a head on the child,

Taking off a head from some other creature,

We describe it as an elephant.

But what you need to understand is,

Nobody called him Gajapathy,

We called him Ganapathy.

So he took off the head of one of his friends and put it on the boy.

One of these?

Yes,

But they had limbs without bones.

So he became a Ganapathy.

Slowly in the culture,

Because a limb without bones means we thought it's an elephant and artists made this into an elephant,

But actually he's not Gajapathy,

He's Ganapathy.

He has the head of one of the Ganas and he made them leader of the Ganas.

He said,

Okay,

From now on you are the leader of my people.

So this guy is one of them.

We didn't distort him so much,

We made it little human-like so that people can relate to him.

Isn't it cute?

It's beautiful.

We should talk a little later.

I'm very fascinated by what you… because there's a lot of construction going on here.

It's almost like,

You know… The whole humanity is in construction.

Okay,

All right,

I'll buy that.

I'll buy that.

But we should talk about the construction.

What are you building here and why is it so big,

Right?

The blocks are really heavy,

Like it's meant to last a thousand years.

So,

Sadhguru,

This is a temple that I know you told me that it will last thousands of years and it's a feminine temple.

It's a temple devoted to the female aspect,

Not only of us,

But the whole existence,

The feminine aspect of existence.

So tell me about this.

This is not man-woman,

What is it?

What is feminine,

What is masculine?

So you need to understand this.

Human understanding comes from a certain perception,

A limited perception.

When I say limited perception,

Right now your whole perception comes through your sense perception.

Sense organs can perceive something only if there is something to compare with.

Only because there's darkness,

You understand light.

Only because there's death,

You understand life.

So only because there's a woman,

You know the man,

Otherwise you wouldn't know because sense organs can perceive only in comparison.

See,

Just your visual apparatus,

For example,

Right now,

You know silence only because there is sound and you know sound only because there's silence,

Isn't it?

See,

Right now if I show you this part of my hand,

You can only see this.

You cannot see this.

If I show you this,

You can only see this.

So this is the nature of sense perception,

Whether it's your eyes or your ears or your smell or your taste or your touch,

Everything is only by comparison.

So the moment you perceive through sense organs,

You already divided the existence.

So because of the division,

Your mind also thinks in divisions because without divisions you cannot perceive,

Without two there is no logic,

So you need two.

So these two fundamental principles,

Because we are human,

We are a species with man,

Woman,

Masculine,

Feminine,

We are calling them masculine and feminine,

Two fundamental aspects.

So in this culture,

It may be referred to as Shiva Shakti or in other cultures Yin and Yang,

Whatever.

So Shiva being masculine and Shakti being feminine.

Why Shakti?

Shakti means power.

Why is that feminine?

Not power,

Shakti means energy.

It's energy.

Unfortunately,

Because of various,

You know,

Civilizational and exploitative situations in the human societies,

We are thinking of energy as power and dominance.

No,

Energy is just energy.

Without energy nothing happens.

So I could say this temple is a temple for energy.

Feminine energy.

Feminine energy.

So let's go ahead and tell me what feminine energy is as against masculine energy.

Is this what you call a leap of faith,

Right?

From intellectualism to consciousness is one big.

.

.

It doesn't take any faith,

It just needs a leg.

Or a broken leg,

Okay.

When we say a temple,

This must be understood,

The temple is like a body.

To energize the system,

Temple is not a place of worship.

Temple is not a place where you go and make appeals to some unknown god up there.

This is not that kind.

This is not a place where you lead a prayer.

That is the uniqueness of this culture.

Here,

Temple is like a body energized in a certain way.

Now if you see the masculine temple that we have,

Is circular in nature because that is the quality that it is.

The feminine temple is in the form of a triangle.

There's a whole lot of things in its geometry,

How it is made.

See all the wings are thirty-three feet properly done in the multiples of eleven.

It is made in a certain way to create a feminine energy there.

Why thirty-three?

If you go into these details,

There are enormous amount of science behind that.

Like your spinal column is thirty-three aspects and… Dr.

Virendra Dixit-Mingam,

Ph.

D.

Which I just risked right now.

So there are so many aspects to this which I don't wish to go right now,

But essentially it is feminine energy.

Where was the need for this in a way?

See one thing is today,

The feminine is at huge risk on the planet.

So immediately people may think,

Oh that's because of the man.

Maybe man instigated it,

But when I say masculine and feminine,

I am not talking about male-female.

I am talking about those two aspects,

Those two dimensions of life without which our life will not be beautiful.

Our life cannot work actually,

Even in the most fundamental way.

So because people start thinking in terms of dominance,

This is a problem.

If you are not looking at life as dominance,

If you are looking at life as integration,

If you are looking at life as cooperation,

If you are looking at life as oneness,

Then without these two dimensions there is no existence.

But unfortunately societies have taken on to this,

As to who is dominating right now,

Whether masculine or feminine,

If any one of them dominates,

It will turn ugly.

It's not that if masculine dominates,

It will turn ugly.

It's not that if masculine dominates,

It will turn ugly,

Or feminine dominates,

It will turn ugly.

If any one of them dominates,

It will turn ugly.

Above all,

If you start thinking in terms of dominance,

Your life will turn ugly.

Instead of seeing how to embrace life,

You are thinking how to dominate life.

By domination you will not know life,

Only by inclusion you will know life.

So this is essentially to create an energy force where people can experience a powerful sense of feminine,

A fiery nature of the feminine thing.

See,

Feminine is a very fiery form of energy.

But today because we have made economics the most important aspect of human societies,

Naturally… see we need to understand this,

Economics is being glorified as if it's some kind of a divine thing.

Economics essentially means survival,

Survival process.

A man used to go into the forest,

Have a hunt and bring a little bit of meat or fruit or whatever.

That was the simple economics.

Now it's complicated in a million different ways,

But still it's the same thing,

Providing for yourself and people around you.

We are raising it… we are raising a simple survival process to a divine level,

Which is a foolish way to live.

Economics has a place in our life for sure,

But it is not the be-all of life.

So feminine doesn't belong to that dimension.

If in these societies,

Love,

Art,

Music,

Above all aesthetics of life was dominant in a society,

If aesthetics was as important as economics,

Nobody had to bring up the feminine.

Feminine would be naturally dominant,

Or let me not use the word dominant,

Feminine would be naturally,

Exuberantly alive and manifest in the society.

Today either we have… we are slowly making all the women like men,

Because they have to survive,

They have to earn money,

They have to provide,

Or a small percentage of them in reaction not being able to cope with that,

They're becoming like Barbie dolls.

Here we are creating a woman who is fiery and powerful in a completely different way.

But what you're saying is you just said love,

Art,

Aesthetics,

Use those three words as part of the feminine energy.

Now I'm a filmmaker,

I'd like to assume that I have all three in myself.

So that's my feminine energy.

Yes,

It is.

If you do not have the feminine,

You won't look and think in terms of what's beautiful,

What's not beautiful.

You'll only think in terms of what's useful and what's not useful.

You'll become utilitarian.

The masculine is like that.

So that's… So you being a man or a woman has nothing to do with it.

So am I in conflict constantly between my masculine and feminine self?

Why?

See,

That's the whole thing.

These two energies are the basis of creation.

Why would they be in conflict?

They're in absolute collaboration.

It is only in human mind that it's in conflict.

In life,

It's not in conflict.

In energy,

It's not in conflict.

Only in mind it's in conflict because mind divides.

Because perception is partial,

That's why conflict.

Otherwise,

There's no conflict in the existence between masculine and feminine.

Because the people who are listening to you say the sheer absolute power of the feminine energy,

They don't relate to that.

They see feminine energy as something gentle,

Nurturing,

Soft.

Tell me about the power of feminine energy because a lot of our culture talks about various goddesses that have a sense of huge power and almost violent power.

The original goddesses that we created in this culture were all Kali,

Bhairavi,

Now she's Bhairavi,

All fierce,

Powerful creatures,

Okay?

Somewhere down the line,

When the outside influences came upon the culture and people made fun of them,

People ridiculed your woman are like this,

Then they tried to domesticate the feminine.

And then they created Saraswati,

Lakshmi,

Very soft,

Gentle,

Housewife kind of feminine.

Bhairavi,

You can't contain her to the limitations of your… not that she's… she cannot stay in your house.

You cannot contain her to the boundaries of your house.

She's… she's all-encompassing,

That's the nature of her.

That's the nature of the feminine,

That it's all-embracing,

Not all-conquering,

You must understand.

Man wants to be in conquest,

A woman wants to embrace.

If the feminine is dominant,

The feminine wants to embrace,

Masculine want to conquer.

That's a big difference.

By conquest,

You'll never have it,

By embrace,

You'll have it,

Isn't it?

So is spirituality very feminine or it's the perfect balance?

So what is the perfect… Oh,

It is an… it is an absolute balance.

If there is no balance,

It'll not work.

It's not just spirituality,

Life is an absolute balance.

Existence is an absolute balance between masculine and feminine.

So spirituality is not alien to existence.

Spirituality is purely existential,

Not psychological.

All these questions are coming up because society has become psychological,

Not existential.

Spiritual process is purely existential,

So masculine and feminine have equal roles in making it happen.

You know,

Sadhguru,

As you're talking,

I can't help noticing all those people sitting.

They're tapping and what they're creating and sculpting,

That tap is almost feminine.

Now,

Is that my learning or is that truly feminine?

That tap is not a big tap,

It's so gentle that you can barely,

You know,

If you hear it… Yes.

See now,

Now it's come to a point where the work has become almost feminine,

Okay?

You need gentle hands to do what they're doing.

But before that,

This rock was in the quarry,

Okay?

There you needed some hard tools to cut it,

Make it a big piece,

Transport it in the truck,

Bring it in,

Hold it there,

Cut it down to size,

All that was very masculine.

If that masculine work had not happened,

This feminine part would be not possible.

This is so in the society also,

I want you to see.

If the man goes about,

Breaks down nature,

Builds his home and all this,

Then the woman comes in and makes it beautiful.

If she didn't come in,

He would just have a rock house which is of no consequence.

Nobody enjoys being there,

They'll have a house and they live outdoor.

It's happening in cultures where feminine has been suppressed.

They have great homes,

But they always want to be outdoors.

It's a good place to talk about what consecration means.

What does consecration mean?

What do you consecrate?

I mean,

What is that?

What is that process and what is it achieved?

See,

This is happening everywhere around you,

All the time.

One form of existence or one form of energy is transforming itself into another.

What is mud is becoming flower,

Fruit and food,

Isn't it?

What is filth is actually becoming a flower.

What is stink is becoming fragrance.

It's happening.

If you eat the food,

This food becomes from what was just a grain of rice,

Becomes such a sophisticated machinery like human body.

So if you make mud into food,

You call it agriculture.

If you make food into this,

You call it digestion.

If you make this into mud,

Usually we call it cremation or burial or whatever.

So if you can make a stone or some other gross substance,

A material substance,

Into a divine reverberance,

Into highest,

Subtlest possible reverberance,

That's called consecration.

So the whole existence is doing it all the time in different levels.

So this is a certain science and a technology through which you transform the grosser elements into finer elements.

Unfortunately,

This was always mistaken as producing gold.

The alchemy of the West is always talking about producing gold.

Gold has no worth except in the market,

Okay?

It's only greed which makes a man go towards gold.

The Indian alchemy never talked about making gold.

Indian alchemy always talked about making grosser elements into finer substances,

Making a stone into the divine.

So the whole Indian alchemy is like a consecration process.

So we were never interested in making gold out of steel because we always felt steel is more useful than gold.

Dr.

Virendra Modi – So Sadhguru,

You keep saying this is… two words you use,

Science and technology,

And you've just called consecration the science and technology of taking stone and making it divine.

I've often heard you talking about divine,

The achievement of dubai,

The science of becoming divine or achieving divinity and the technology.

Why… why is it science?

Is it that mathematical?

Don't we have to cross one barrier to go beyond the mathematics of it or the technology of it?

Sadhguru – Right now,

There is an agricultural science,

Right?

They will teach you how to study the soil,

The qualities of the soil,

The seed,

The manure,

Everything.

So they only set those conditions,

But they don't produce food,

Do they?

Can you… can they do it?

They will set the soil conditions,

They'll set the seed condition,

Everything else that's necessary to grow.

But the growth itself,

The transforming earth into food,

That no scientist does.

That is happening by nature.

Here also the same thing.

We have a whole science,

If we set all these conditions,

The growth becomes subtle.

You know,

I must tell you how it happened to me for the first time.

I was building a… you know,

Like I've always been building something or the other.

Dr.

Raghuram G.

Rajan – I think you're… I think you're like a… in another life you were an architect.

Sadhguru – Why in this life I am?

Dr.

Raghuram G.

Rajan – Yes,

In this life,

But you have this… this fascination for architecture.

Every time I talk to you,

You always bring architecture into it.

Because creation is essentially shapes and forms,

Isn't it?

Creation is a fantastic architecture.

That's all creation is.

It's fabulous,

Fabulous architecture.

So now we are trying to create our own spaces,

Not in competition with creation,

Just in small imitation of the creation.

So my architecture is straight from nature.

I have not studied anything.

So when I was building something and this was my first project,

I'm building a farm near Mysore.

And I'm doing it with a real short shoe string.

So when I want to end… in the end I want to paint it,

I don't have the money to go and buy regular paint.

So I buy ordnance paint,

Military reject paint,

Which is the worst kind of paint.

If you paint it fifteen days,

It will be still wet,

You can still stick to it.

It's a good mosquito trap.

So I get this paint and all the… only paint they have is farm blue.

I don't like the color,

So I dilute it so that it's little lighter.

And I don't have the thing to get painters to paint this large wall surface.

So I want to paint it and it takes too much time to go like this.

So what I do,

I dip,

Hold it here and just walk.

One smear of paint from this end to that end,

That end to this end.

The first smear that I did,

I dipped and walked like this.

Here the smear was thick.

As it went it became lighter,

Lighter,

Lighter,

Lighter and became really subtle.

I just looked at this and I burst into tears.

That was one great moment of realization for me.

This is the whole creation.

From a rock to divine,

This all the thing is,

It's either dense or it's subtle,

That's all it is.

It's the same existence everywhere.

Whether you look at the earth or you look at your body or you look at what you call as divine,

It is all the same substance.

It is just getting subtler.

So that was my huge realization for me,

Just a paint smear.

And whatever we are creating as divine is just that,

Making a rock into a subtler form of energy.

Every substance on the planet is exuding a certain kind of energy,

Reverberation which is a scientific fact.

You can change the way it exudes,

What type of energy it exudes,

You can change that.

Altering that to a very subtle and useful form of energy is consecration process.

So temples were energy forms,

Temples were energy places,

Where every day in the morning before you start your day,

You go sit there for some time,

Imbibe this energy and go into the world.

Why this became necessary is,

See once you step into the world,

For an ordinary person,

A common man,

Every transaction in the world,

Whatever it may be,

What is your profit is somebody's loss,

What is somebody's profit is your loss.

In every transaction there is something to be lost or something to be gained,

Whether it's family transaction between husband and wife,

Father and son,

Business partners,

Or every transaction,

There is something to give up,

Something to take everywhere,

That's why it's a transaction.

So if you are not sufficiently lubricated in your… the way you are,

Every transaction is a point of friction,

A possible friction.

There are some people who are making every transaction into a friction,

Some people are conducting their transactions gracefully.

So every day going,

Sitting in the temple was just this,

You are well lubricated.

When you step out,

You can pass through the world with least amount of friction.

So this is a very,

Very significant instruction which is still alive in the southern part of this country.

Here nobody tells you if you go to the temple you should pray.

They always tell you if you go there,

You must sit there,

You must sit there for some time and come.

But today the instruction has become like this,

The way they are following it is,

They touch their bottom to the floor and they go.

Nobody told you you have to pray,

Nobody told you you have to make an offering,

You just have to sit there.

But they also told that people on the spiritual path need not go to the temple because they have self-charging mechanisms.

So temple is essentially for a householder who has no his own way of transforming his energies.

Use a public place,

A battery charging place it is.

So this is feminine energy,

It's triangular.

The whole temple is triangular,

Pointing towards the southwestern direction,

Which is a feminine direction on the planet.

In the northern hemisphere,

Southwestern point is very feminine.

That's technology or is it?

Yes,

We can actually demonstrate this to you.

Yes,

How it's more feminine than the other directions.

We can actually give you a demonstration.

All right,

And the masculine is completely the opposite way?

Very,

Very direct sense of masculine is like this,

But in between all both are spread out.

See,

When we say masculine and feminine,

This is human intellect which is saying they're opposites.

They are not opposites.

They are not in conflict,

They are in collaboration.

One cannot exist without the other in the very nature of things.

So it is only in the mingling of these two dimensions of energy,

They are not two different energies.

These are two manifestations of energy from the unmanifest.

These two manifestations of energy,

Only in the mingling of these two,

Life happens.

It's an equilateral triangle,

Okay?

There are many aspects of the geometry which I don't want to go in,

But the significant aspect is,

There's another triangle fitting into this in a smaller capacity.

So a downward triangle is… This downward triangle always symbolizes the feminine.

The upward moving triangle symbolizes the masculine,

But here normally it would be depicted like this.

Okay,

This is also the star of David and whatever else the star is used,

And this is the basic yantra for Sri Chakra and everything.

This is the masculine and feminine meeting,

But here the masculine is held inside the feminine triangle because here the masculine is unborn,

It's in the womb of the feminine.

So it's a smaller triangle held inside.

It is not a larger triangle like a male meeting the female.

This is like in the womb,

The masculine is a child in the feminine's womb because here the feminine is in a dominant form.

So there is a whole geometry of things into… in this,

Where we are trying to build a body of the feminine to energize it in a certain way.

So Devi will sit here,

This is also a triangle,

And this is into the earth.

Here there are steps going in.

Being in the earth is very important for the feminine.

So the deity herself is going into the earth and people have to go in to meet her,

That's how it is.

And there are lots of symbolisms attached and geometry involved in this whole process.

In the end,

Today you have walked in,

It's like a construction site.

After two months you walk into this space,

Forget about the ambience,

Walk with your eyes closed,

You will see it'll just hit you in your face,

The whole energy of it.

That's how it will be.

So it's eleven-month gestation period.

We are still working on the deity,

It's elsewhere.

It's based in solidified mercury and it's energized in a particular way,

Where it's purely feminine,

Very fiery feminine nature.

You will meet the woman of your life.

Okay,

I'll wait for that.

I think that's a good promise.

Reviews

Totally absorbing. A very special person.

A lot of information and manners of looking to things in a inclusive way
Thank you both for sharing this.
🙏Namaste🙏

As always wise and knowledge!
🙏❣️🌅Namaste

Wow! It feels like my consciousness and my understanding of the universe has been elevated to a higher level. I will return to this talk! Thank you so much for sharing! 🙏