077 Om Rupani: Masculine Resilience

In this episode, I speak with Om Rupani on Masculine Resilience. Om has great experience in the field of deep connection and after watching him on a documentary I wanted to speak with him on the male response to hardship.

Please note: This track may include some explicit language

Transcript

Today's guest is Omer Pani.

Om is a Domination and Submission instructor,

And he's no stranger to the podcast.

He's been on quite a few times.

In fact,

I recommend going back and listening to some of our older episodes.

We've had some great conversations.

I want to speak to him after I just saw the Red Pill documentary,

Which is a feminist documentary on men's rights and speaks about male pain quite a bit.

I wanted to speak with Om about his views on this subject because masculinity and vulnerability and how to express vulnerability and how to deal with pain and hardship and how that ties into some of the virtues of masculinity,

Strength,

And ability to deal with shit.

I was curious on his take and where the lines are drawn,

And he brought up some important nuances that I think are very important for everyone to hear.

Particularly men of my generation,

Millennials and younger,

I think is very critical given the way that – given the culture that most of us were raised in,

At least in the first world.

So some really important stuff brought up in this episode.

Om has some workshops coming out,

Quite a few workshops scheduled for 2020.

I know some of them aren't confirmed yet.

He's a Tantra,

BDSM – Tantra meets BDSM workshop levels one and two.

This is something I highly recommend.

I mean,

I've spoken about Om quite a bit.

I quote him quite a lot.

Not only is he a friend,

But I really respect his work and has had a very positive impact on me.

I've taken his level one quite a few times because there's always some good stuff.

Obviously,

Domination submission is not for everyone.

However,

One thing I want to point out is like I'm not really into kink myself.

It's not really my jam,

But the way it's taught in his workshops really dig into the archetypal psychology,

Which I certainly find very fascinating and applicable to life and relationships and expression as a man or woman.

I mean,

Sexual identity and all these archetypes apply to everyone.

And listeners of the podcast can get $50 off by using the discount code RUANDO.

Type in RUANDO at omrapani.

Org is where all his workshops are.

If you sign up,

Put in the discount code RUANDO,

You will get 50 bucks off.

He's got dates in the United States and in Europe.

And if you happen to go to the ones in Europe,

I will be at one of them.

I'm not sure which one.

I know he doesn't have all the cities confirmed yet,

But I'll be in Europe for the spring and summer.

I'm going to try to make it out to one of them.

So if you want to meet me in person and you want to do the DS thing and you – whatever.

I just want to do something fun for a weekend,

You can check that out.

Right now you're listening to episode 077,

Omrapani Masculine Resilience.

You're listening to the Ruando podcast,

Part of the Gotham podcast studio network in New York,

New York.

If you enjoy the show,

Please subscribe and rate it wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hey,

Om,

Great to see you.

Hello.

Yeah.

So many things to speak about today.

As I mentioned to you earlier,

I've been going kind of deep into the Red Pill community and watched the Red Pill movie.

And I'm curious about some of your takes because you and I have spoken about Rolo's work before and their takes on masculinity and man,

Woman relating.

And I'm curious – well,

First,

How far?

Have you read anything about with like the Red Pill stuff beyond the rational male since you last spoke?

As far as – I've seen – I've come across their ideas more on YouTube.

I think I read Rolo Tomasi's book a while back.

It's been a little while.

But yeah,

I'm kind of familiar with the idea,

But I'm not immersed in it.

Yeah,

Yeah.

And I read rational male.

I think one of the last times we spoke,

We spoke about that.

And one thing I found interesting,

I have a client – I have a couple of clients who come from that community and there's things I agree with,

There's things I disagree with.

But one thing I was actually very impressed by was how systemized it is.

And I think that's one of the negatives even,

Like their system of masculinity.

And before we jump into like specifics,

I'm curious what your take is on it in general of like kind of – it's kind of like a harsh stance on man,

Woman relating,

But they have a lot of rules and I'm curious what your take is on it.

You need to be a little bit more specific for me.

I don't – give me something more specific.

I don't know what the global – Sure,

Sure.

Well,

Let's back up a second.

So one thing that came up in the Red Pill movie was I was actually kind of disappointed that there's a lot of guys basically complaining about their pain and like dumping it on – society is not taking care of us and stuff,

Which I was actually hoping that they would have a really good argument for men's rights and stuff like that.

But instead,

It was a lot of guys kind of whining and being unmasculine.

And I guess like the main thing I want to speak about with you first is like how men deal with their pain,

Especially in relationship to women.

And yeah.

It sounds like a big topic.

Nothing's popping up in my brain on how men process their pain.

Okay.

Okay,

Actually.

I'm trying to think.

This is – sorry,

I might have started a little too abstract there where we can shop and stuff.

Okay,

Actually,

Let me boil this down to a more concrete idea.

Okay.

So one thing that came up for me while watching the movie and going into the Red Pill stuff – actually,

This is actually something I've been thinking about because it's come up in my relationship of how I experience my pain or my softness or times I get hurt because we're all human beings with my woman.

Because you and I come from communities where the general ethos is feel your feelings,

Learn how to be vulnerable,

Of course,

That's in general.

But there is something,

It's maybe like an old world view on masculinity of like,

You can't always be processing your pain with your woman necessarily.

And I guess I started off kind of vague here because it's something I'm still wrestling in my own mind.

Like,

Where is the right line?

Because there's one way of being like,

Oh,

It's always important to express your emotions.

But there's also like a masculine virtue of dealing with your own shit.

And I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that,

Say for men in a relationship or.

.

.

That I can say something.

I mean,

I kind of agree with your premise.

I think there is a balance in there about men being open-hearted,

Men not being shut down,

Men not suppressing their emotions,

And also not laying all their emotions,

All their pain,

All their struggles at the feet of the woman they're in a relationship with.

I don't think women tolerate that for too long.

I think there is a difference,

Their attraction level for you will go down.

You do that too much.

And I think,

So again,

This has to be a little bit nuanced.

Otherwise people always,

Especially in today's climate,

Everybody is interpreting everything as either or.

I think women actually thrive.

If a woman really loves a man,

If she feels this is my guy and I want to build with him,

Then being of use to him in his struggles,

Being of help to him through a tight spot can be beautiful.

Women thrive on that.

Men and women can bond deeper when that happens.

But what I've seen not work is when men kind of tend to go into a collapse and kind of leave all their misery and their collapse at their women's feet.

And that can be almost like a trigger,

Like a switch off of attraction in the women's system because they need their men to hold their ground.

They don't expect them to be perfect.

They don't expect them to never be challenged,

But they do want to see their men rise to the challenge.

They want to feel that their men have lost,

That their men have given up.

This is a thing,

This is a topic that I've written about elsewhere.

This is,

Again,

I shared this a while ago,

The beautiful passage in the Grapes of Wrath,

Right in the opening pages that I shared in my men's class and I've written about it.

I think it expresses this entire dynamic in one paragraph.

I actually shared that paragraph about it's the dust bowl and the crops have been destroyed by it.

And Steinbeck describes the scene as the men are out in the field looking at the devastation of their crops and they're completely at a loss because this is a big hit.

It's such a huge hit.

They don't know what they're going to do.

And he describes the scene as the men are looking at their fields and the women are looking at their men.

And the women are looking to see if our men are going to break.

Is this hardship so bad that our men are going to break?

And then the women observe something in their men's expression and they,

Again,

I have to read the passage,

It's absolutely gorgeous,

But to some degree,

They perceive them going from feeling completely crushed to kind of getting pissed a little bit maybe.

And they observe that in their men and they know our men are not going to break.

And if the women know that,

They say,

We're fine,

We'll deal with the rest.

As long as they feel their men are intact,

They feel their men are ready to put their shoulder into whatever challenge has come in,

I think women can be amazing partners.

I think that's what a true marriage is supposed to be.

And when hardships come your way,

Neither the man or the woman collapses and they're shoulder together and they love each other and they support each other.

The great romances have this in them all over the place.

As men and women get hit by something really challenging,

It could be as devastating as the illness or death of a child.

It could be nature,

It could be economic distress.

There are great novels from the Great Depression that kind of depict this camaraderie that men and women had when faced with amazing challenges against very terrible odds.

And I don't think women think less of their men if their men go through a down phase or if they feel challenged.

But what they don't want to see is the men kind of collapsing and escaping.

Because that to some degree,

He's kind of almost breaking the contract between men and women.

He's not there for her and he's collapsed within himself.

And to some degree,

She feels alone in a way in that partnership.

If that happens,

I think women have a very limited tolerance for that.

Yeah,

I think you pointed to a really important nuance and I think this is maybe one of my criticisms of Red Pill.

They get this really hard stance of,

At least the way I perceive,

Kind of posturing perfection.

It's an insecurity I felt myself.

If I show too much weakness,

I'm sure every guy has felt this or experienced this maybe,

If I show too much weakness,

If she sees me fail,

She's going to lose attraction no matter what her beliefs are.

But you're kind of pointing to the one thing that you can control,

Which is whether you choose or not to accept the loss or basically giving up or not,

Which is always within one's control.

I agree with you.

I think the use of the word weakness needs to be examined a little bit.

Just because you have taken a hit doesn't mean you're weak.

And I think the cartoon version of masculinity is you never show that you have taken a hit,

That you are in sorrow,

That you are down,

That you're depressed.

I don't think all of that is weakness.

You could have taken a hit and be amazingly strong.

You could have had a death in your family,

Doesn't mean you're weak.

But you could take a hit and then you can completely fall apart to the point where you're not really available anymore,

Where you're not really reliable anymore.

That gets interpreted.

I mean,

Even weakness is not even the perfect description of it.

Is this kind of you've kind of ejected from the partnership if you're collapsed within yourself.

I think that sets off kind of an alarm in the systems of women when their primary partner does that.

Kind of if he loses his job,

If he has a health challenge,

Whatever challenge comes and she feels kind of the man has collapsed and separated from him.

And if he hasn't done that,

Then if they are still together and they can still love each other,

Then I think men and women can show that's where the heroics of relationships can be.

When you find your way out of those challenges,

There can be an opportunity in there to like actually deepen intimacy because shared hardship can be amazing wellspring for intimacy for two people that it can be great.

Doesn't even have to be between men.

The great stories of brotherhood,

The great stories of men finding their bonding together usually involves them facing a challenge together.

War stories are the same premise.

You don't even have to like the guy.

You don't even have to know the guy too well,

But you have shared hardship together and you have had each other's back that automatically generates a bond.

It generates love,

It generates loyalty.

Can you speak more on the contract you mentioned?

I think it would be great to maybe unpack that in terms of man,

Woman relating or any relationship I guess.

I think women pick men because they feel the men is going to contribute something to their life.

They pick men.

I think we all do.

I think that's simply logical,

But I think our,

What do you call it?

Not standards,

But our qualifications are what we need from each other is different.

Our needs are not completely mirrored.

I think women more than men are looking for strength.

They're looking for,

This also I wrote about recently,

At one level they are looking for that protection and provision because that is one aspect of the male-female dynamic.

It may not apply as much in the civilized world where people are so independent and our societies are relatively safe.

At every level,

I think there are,

We are looking for qualities in each other that we feel will make our lives more whole and more rich.

So this,

I think looking for a man who is strong,

Someone who can provide form to the feminine chaos,

Someone who can kind of stand in the fire and be solid is one of the things that attracts strong men to women.

So if the men kind of abandon that,

If the men abandon that strength,

Then it's like you've kind of broken the contract of why the women picked you in the first place.

That was one of the things on your resume is they said,

I need this.

That's why I'm saying yes to you.

And if you stop doing that,

That becomes problematic.

That lowers the attraction level the woman has for that man.

Yeah,

That's one thing that,

In that Red Pill documentary,

They kind of irked me at how I was calling it,

These guys were being unmascaling by complaining women treat us this way.

But like,

I guess it's to what you said that they're kind of opting out of the purpose of masculinity in a relationship or society by complaining about problems they're unwilling to fix in themselves or deal with.

I'll have to watch this documentary.

I've heard a lot about it.

I've seen clips.

Yeah,

It was on my watch list for a long time.

And I was very excited to watch it,

Especially with my girlfriend.

But I found it,

I was kind of disappointed.

Maybe it was,

It's been a couple years,

Maybe it was more profound back then.

But it's basically a feminist recognizing,

Oh,

Men have feelings too.

Big revelation.

I kind of found it quite dry.

That part of it.

I mean,

It's amazing to me that that part needed to be discovered.

I mean,

It's like almost,

It's disheartening almost,

It's really sad.

The things that have gotten to the point where modern women,

21st century women have this view of masculinity.

Like,

Yeah,

It's kind of crazy.

Yeah.

And I mean,

Good.

It's,

You know,

The women are the ones always banging the drum about empathy,

Empathy,

Empathy.

And like,

The lack of empathy I've seen,

And I've seen the clip.

I remember one specific clip,

I think it was in the movie,

Where feminists,

I think it was at some university where feminists are like being really horrible in their language and their attitude towards men who are trying to hold a men's rights meeting.

And their agenda was male suicide.

I don't know if this clip was in the movie.

This woman is completely in this guy's face,

And they shut down the meeting saying any men's right activists are basically anti-feminist or anti-women.

These guys were there to discuss the alarm,

I mean,

The high rate of male suicide.

And I'm like,

I look at that and I'm like,

I don't even care you're a woman.

I don't care you're a feminist.

You're a fucking sociopath.

You're like,

What's wrong with you?

I mean,

How clouded are you by your feminist bullshit?

Just how much has your gender studies and feminist studies and victimized studies department brainwashed you that you are so fucking blind to the human beings that are standing in front of you?

And these,

Did they say,

Are not made up.

Men kill themselves on magnitudes higher than women.

I mean,

Don't you have fathers?

Don't you have brothers?

Don't you care what's happening with half of the population?

And here you want to stand up and say,

Anything men need,

The feminist can provide.

I'm like,

You are out of your fucking mind and you're a repulsive human being.

This is why I think it's really,

Especially what's happening on campuses and especially what was falling under the banner of feminism.

And then women come out and say,

No,

Feminism is only about women's equality.

Yeah,

That's women equality.

Women in a guy's face calling him horrible things because he was there to host or participate in the men's meeting that wanted to talk about male suicide.

I'm like,

This is repugnant.

So if men are protesting about that,

And I think there's a deep hypocrisy in that aspect that women are the one and the feminists are the ones saying men are horrible and we are all full of love and empathy and understanding.

And I'm like,

And this is how you act,

You're full of shit.

It's like,

It's really disgusting.

So if men are protesting that aspect,

How certain women are acting in society and complaining about that,

I'm on board with it.

I think those people are shit.

I think they should be opposed.

I think they should be protested.

And I don't think you should back down from it.

I don't think,

I don't even care about the man-woman dynamic.

As a human being,

It is not a man-woman issue,

Man.

It is a man-woman issue in the sense that men commit suicide more than women.

I would think women would be interested in talking about it.

Women have not come from a different fucking planet.

Don't you have fathers and brothers you care about?

Returning soldiers are killing themselves at a rate that is horrifying.

The suicide rate among returning veterans is absolutely fucking horrifying.

These are your brothers.

These are your husbands.

Do you not care about the men around you,

About the men in your life?

This is not part of your problem.

It's like mind-boggling to me.

This is not a man-woman fighting issue.

This is a human issue.

This is a societal issue.

What kind of a citizen are you being?

What kind of a human being are you being?

It's shocking to me.

So as far as that goes,

Men complaining about those aspects,

About the lack of empathy on women's part towards men's misery,

Then yeah,

I think they have a legitimate point.

I don't think it's all about personal relationships or whatever the dynamic in there is.

I think a lot of it has to do with how men are being treated at a societal level and how their overall misery is kind of being discarded.

And I think it is nonsense.

I think it is deep hypocrisy when that's happening.

Yeah.

I mean,

Maybe it's because I'm in this space a lot and think about these things.

I just found that the fact that that whole movie made that a revelation was ridiculous.

Yes,

People on both sides are lacking compassion for the other side so they can maintain a victim identity.

I thought the movie could have gone deeper than that.

It was my disappointment.

We'll discuss the movie some other time.

Even the clips I have watched of topics like this,

They have been a revelation to me.

I didn't know many of the numbers,

For instance,

That workplace injuries and deaths for men are like astronomical compared to women.

Men get longer sentences for the same crimes compared to women.

I actually was not that familiar until recently that men suicide rates were back alarmingly high compared to women.

Why do you think that is actually?

Boys are falling so far behind in school compared to women.

Universities are like graduating 60% women,

40% men,

And women are still whining about we need affirmative action for women.

I'm like,

When does this stop?

I don't really see the logic of it.

It's like they completely cannot see that men have needs.

Forget men.

These are your boys.

These are your children.

These are your sons.

These are kids.

Do you not care?

Kids of boys are not doing as well.

I mean,

This antipathy towards masculinity is pathological at this point.

It really is like blind rage.

It's dehumanizing.

At least in those circles,

At least with those people who are acting that way.

No matter what numbers you show them,

What facts you show them,

They're like,

No,

Men are still horrible and need to do more for women.

I'm like,

You're insane.

Why do you think boys are falling behind?

I don't have a full answer for that.

You would have to like really talk to experts.

Okay,

Fair enough.

I don't have children.

I don't quite know.

They would,

Some of the explanations I've heard,

But I'll tell you one thing I firmly believe and I feel the absent of fathers is a huge contribution to the pretty much falling apart of masculinity and young men.

I think that is a huge factor.

That one I can feel in my bones.

Apart from that,

People have pointed out that,

I don't know what the number is,

78,

80%,

75% of teachers are women.

And a lot of this,

This I've heard from a couple of friends who have sons that pretty much schools,

Especially early grades,

Probably higher grades too have like completely become feminized.

Boys are supposed to just sit there and be quiet and behave nicely as girls tend to do,

Their boys tend to be more robust,

They want to run around,

They want to play a fight and they want to tussle and all of that is being forbidden in a lot of places.

A lot more boys and girls are being put on medication to calm them down.

And I'm like,

None of that is really good.

It's almost like you're taking half the population and finding them inherently wrong.

You don't have a way of accommodating their nature.

I'm like,

That can't be good.

You can't have an entire education system that's leaning towards feminine nature.

Yeah,

I remember when I was in elementary school,

They forbid running at recess at one point.

Like half of my elementary school,

We could actually play normally the way the kids did for many decades.

And then at some point a kid skinned his knee and then suddenly no running was allowed.

Yeah,

I mean,

I,

And yeah,

As I say,

I don't have children.

I've done my first time to kind of this,

But I hear it from,

I think I heard this from Jordan Peterson,

Who said at some point the school that his kids were in,

I think it was Jordan,

It might've been somebody else,

Some other,

But they said the school passed a policy,

No snowball fights.

Cause it's too aggressive or something.

You like out of your,

You know,

It's like,

Come on,

Who are you catering to?

What is your ideal?

What kind of human beings are you creating?

Right.

So I think all of this and not only,

It's not,

It's not just a matter of policy.

It's more of matter.

Like we are,

We are finding this behavior wrong.

Right.

If you are the kind of boy who wants to cussle and fight and throw snowballs,

No,

You need to,

It's not only that we don't hit each other.

No,

You are wrong.

Your nature is wrong.

You're behaving in such a way that doesn't belong in society.

That is a pretty big judgment to pass on human beings this tiny.

And then you start medicating them.

And then if these boys are growing up and falling behind or feeling depressed or feeling that there's something wrong with them and God help me for saying this,

Maybe they don't want to be boys anymore.

You think there might be a connection?

If being a boy is so bad and girls are perfect.

Yeah.

I mean,

It could be,

Could be.

I mean,

Yeah.

I mean,

I'm just thinking from my own experiences and I was born in 88,

So I was a child during the participation trophy introduction,

At least on the East coast.

I think we were a little bit behind the West coast,

But yeah,

I mean,

It changed a lot of,

Made it easier.

It took away the virtue of competition,

Which I think is kind of needed for a boy's development.

That I believe is total crap.

I think that has done a lot of harm.

I think that participation trophy mentality is a sickness of overtime.

I think that is as deeply contributed to creating the fragility we see on college campuses these days.

Yeah.

It feels like that nonsense is turning around.

It's turning around because it's like,

Its effect is so disastrous.

It's kind of obvious these days.

These kids are non-functional.

Yeah.

Well,

I'm pretty optimistic about it as well.

I was just going to say,

I do think with these conversations,

Like there is a pushback now of my generation of younger,

Of recognize,

I kind of returned to conservative values,

Hopefully in a more conscious way of,

I mean,

A lot of guys are recognizing this my age and younger of like,

Oh yeah.

I mean,

The things that our grandfathers cared about hard work,

Shutting up,

Doing your work.

That's actually what is needed sometimes.

It is needed.

I think,

You know,

Again,

I think the word stoicism again gets a bad rap because people are simplistic.

You actually read Marcus Aureolus and his ideas on stoicism.

It's very Zen actually.

It's very Buddhist.

It's not saying don't do anything.

It's saying be in touch with reality.

If you are in touch with reality and if you expect life to be hard,

Deal with it.

It doesn't mean be unfeeling.

It means stop collapsing,

Stop breaking down.

Accept life is going to be difficult,

Accept that there are going to be challenges,

Accept that you're going to lose and make room for all of that because that's what being a grown up in this world looks like.

So it's almost like,

You know,

Take the example of participation.

Basically you're saying there is no such thing as losing.

That's the message.

There's no such thing as losing.

That there is nothing you can do and lose in the world.

I'm like that is a horrible fucking message that does not correspond to the universe.

That's what you're saying.

You can be a complete clown,

Ass clown on the soccer field and we're still going to give you a trophy in the end.

What the hell kind of a message is that?

That's nuts.

If anything the message should be you could work your ass off and still have your ass handed to you on the field because the other people are just better than you.

At least they're better than you today.

That's the correct message because it's in harmony with reality.

That's the way it should be.

You do your very best and you still may completely fall on your face because that's how life functions.

That's the message.

That is the lesson we should learn as kids instead of saying you're completely perfect and your trophy at the end is guaranteed.

What kind of life are you preparing these people for?

Right.

So I think this might,

I don't know if you'll be able to answer this without being too general,

But a lot of guys I speak to my age and younger have made this realization.

They're like,

I was raised to be soft.

I'm a 30 something boy inside.

I realize I need to face facts.

I realize I need to do all these things,

But they're conditioned against this ability to deal with loss.

Every time they try,

They fail.

We could talk about hierarchy in a second,

But they're always at the bottom of every competition.

What if anything would you say to such a person who maybe has already been conditioned,

A man who's already been conditioned in a participation trophy culture?

You should watch Rocky.

No,

Really,

They should watch Rocky.

They should watch every goddamn movie ever made with this kind of a theme of what it takes to succeed.

You have to not give up.

Yeah.

One of my favorite thinkers and authors that I've discovered recently is Jonathan Haidt,

An absolutely brilliant man.

He has amazing books,

Amazing ideas.

I would highly recommend him.

He talks a lot about all these topics that we are talking about,

And it's like part of his conversation is about anti-fragility,

A very beautiful idea that there are things that are fragile,

Like a glass,

You drop a glass,

It breaks.

But there are other things that are anti-fragile,

And one of the examples would be like a reading system.

If a child grows up in a bubble,

That's actually not good.

If you get a bunch of diseases and exposure,

Your immune system gets strong.

And the premise is,

Well,

We are strong.

The human spirit is anti-fragile.

It's not advisable to keep us in a bubble.

We actually grow weaker.

But if you throw challenges at us and you face the challenges,

We become stronger and stronger and stronger.

And all stories,

Whether it's a heroic journey at the level of Joseph Campbell,

Whether it's Rocky,

They basically deal with this.

You will be handed setbacks.

You will be handed losses.

You will be kicked in the face.

You got to get up,

Keep going and keep going and keep going and keep going.

That's what life is like,

Because what choice do you have anyway?

Are you going to curl up and die?

And if you are philosophical about it at one higher level than that,

It's like,

Well,

That is what creates an interesting life.

You don't want to go from a win to a win to a win.

If you're going from a win to a win to a win,

That means you're actually not reaching for anything higher.

You're not really reaching for anything significant.

If you reach for anything significant,

You're going to fail in the beginning.

We understand this really.

I mean,

This is not rocket science.

I'm not really saying anything terribly interesting.

You don't expect to pick up the violin today and start playing tomorrow.

It's retarded.

You won't do that with anything.

You don't buy a new goddamn iPhone and expect to understand how to use this fucking thing in a day.

It's too complicated.

Anything you take up,

You're going to fail at it.

You're not going to get it.

You're going to feel like an idiot.

You're going to make mistakes.

But that's where the ride is.

That's where the growth is.

So why such an allergic reaction to failure?

And again,

This is a very weak part of masculinity because there will be no art.

There will be no mastery if you don't have stomach for failure.

There's absolutely no possibility of mastery if you quit the first time or the second time,

If you get humiliated and if you just collapse internally.

So if the men you're talking about,

Their constitutions are this way,

They simply cannot tolerate failure,

They are weak.

Flash news,

You are fucking weak.

There's something wrong in your character.

And the only kind of remedy for this is you need to build your tolerance for failure and keep going.

Yes,

It's reminding you of a very boring life and women will not find you attractive.

I firmly believe this.

I firmly believe the reason women reject men out of hand.

This is my hypothesis and I'm sticking with it.

You will see this in every romantic comedy.

You will see this in every movie and you will see this in every bar and every woman you ever tried to pick up and talk to and approach.

You will see this.

Women will hand you a failure.

Women will make it hard for you.

And I believe deep down in the feminine psyche,

They want to know how does this man handle failure.

And if you tuck your tail between your legs and you walk away,

Some part of the things I was correct not to say to him right away because he has no stamina.

You need to be able to play with it.

You need to be able to take that head and not collapse and keep your sense of humor and keep your sense of play.

Yeah,

This has reminded me,

I mean,

On a very practical level when I was going out and trying to meet women in bars,

Some of the best advice I ever got from any person was to just stay there.

Like the first thing they say is not the end of the conversation.

But something you said earlier about failures,

I think of the extremes like failing on the battlefield or something.

Some of the stories that stir me up,

I think stir a lot of men up,

Are like epic defeats like the Alamo.

I'm thinking of like,

Have you ever seen the movie Glory with Matthew Broderick and Morgan Freeman?

I think it was a while ago.

I remember I saw it.

It was a while ago.

They were taking up a fort in the south.

It was like a black regiment.

It was the first black regiment in the Civil War and they got destroyed.

But like the pinnacle scene is that they all thought valiantly and then died together.

And I remember like only men get emotional about that.

I think there is something inherently because you recognize that's a virtue.

Like they were outnumbered,

Whatever,

But they died with honor,

So-called.

I think that's,

Yeah.

I don't think it,

I totally hear you and I'm on board with that.

I think what we are responding to is not the death per se,

It's that they were valiant.

They did not quit.

They did not cower.

They had enough metal to keep going.

But you know,

The great stories of victory are also of battles that look exactly like that.

But then by a hair,

You gain the victory.

Right.

Right.

That's what all the great stories are about.

That right up to the end,

You are not sure which way it's going to go.

It really is a tight battle.

But if you don't have the stomach to pour all your courage,

All your metal,

All your energy into that battle,

You will never know what side of line you fall on.

Right.

Because if you give up,

You definitely will lose.

If you give up,

You will definitely lose and you will be a coward and you will have no journey and you will have probably betrayed your people.

You would have quit in between.

You would have abandoned the people to the right and left of you who are counting on you.

You would have been dishonorable.

Right.

So until you pour all of yourself into it,

Every competition,

My Lord,

It doesn't have to be a goddamn battle where it's life and death.

It could be a spelling bee competition or some shit like that.

You still have to go all in.

You won't know which side you're going to come on unless you go all in.

And if you're afraid to go all in because you're terrified of defeat,

Well,

Then you lost already.

What I mean?

And again,

So all of that comes down to you cannot have such a low tolerance for failure or the possibility of failure.

Because the game doesn't even start if that fear is ruling your life,

Nothing's going to happen.

Nothing will get started.

It's like crucial.

It's like almost like a switch that's needed.

If your fear of failure is that high,

Nothing gets started.

Nothing will happen in your life.

Yeah.

And I want to tie this back to something you said earlier,

Because you've mentioned the grapes of wrath thing to me.

I think it might have been in the last time we did a podcast.

And I don't know if I thought about it in this way before,

But there's something about in such a situation,

The masculine pole,

Like setting the reality.

If he crumbles because the earth is scorched or something,

Well,

Then the family's truly fucked.

Right?

And I mean,

When you look at it that way,

It kind of makes sense why a woman would be hard on a man.

Or like,

Yeah,

I mean,

There was attraction for someone who is folding into pressure.

Yeah.

And so I don't know,

This might not be your language.

I use the word reality a lot.

But would you say that,

I mean,

Maybe not even taking this out of the man woman dynamic,

But let's say Dom sub in a relationship,

Like outside of a scene,

For instance,

That is kind of the role is like creating the reality,

Per se,

Like,

Would you say?

I'm not understanding your question.

Like the woman sees the,

I mean,

Using the example you brought up,

The woman is looking at the man to know what the truth is,

Even if the,

What his assertion of the truth is,

Because if,

Let's say he decides that we're fucked,

Then the family's truly fucked.

I don't,

That's not completely resonating with me.

I don't think whether you're looking for confirmation of truth or reality from the man,

You kind of need,

I think women are looking to see that the man is still present and solid and functioning and useful.

I'm not quite seeing the reality part that you're referring to.

Okay,

Fair enough.

I might be tying too many things together.

Yeah,

And I think,

You know,

Going back to what you were saying,

I think I'll speak for my generation best I can.

I think a lot of guys just need to recognize that failure is not the end.

Like I have this course on masculinity and every day there's like a short exercise that some of them are challenging,

Some of them are not.

And then like the email sequence,

There's one challenge that I knew a lot of people might just not do and I had like a,

The one that comes after that was like,

What if you failed yesterday?

And that email gets the most responses from my students of like,

Wow,

That really was meaningful to you.

And I kind of anticipated they would,

A lot of guys would just give up on whatever day of the challenge it was.

But like,

It's just really surprising,

Especially younger guys of like,

Oh,

I missed day five,

Like it's over for me.

And sometimes they just needed to be reminded like,

Oh,

It's okay to fail.

Your choice is what matters to press on with this thing,

Which is fairly inconsequential a challenge they're doing on the internet as opposed to like other things,

But it ties to the same virtue of,

Yeah.

One thing that I can see on this is there is a,

This is one thing I have observed within myself with another.

This might be just a human characteristic,

Not even just necessarily just a masculine characteristic,

But I think it applies a bit more to the masculine psyche,

Which is,

You know,

There isn't such a thing.

I think there's almost another switch in the brain,

Which might be under the switch,

It's the finality of failure.

Like do you,

Are you interpreting this failure as being final?

Like there's no coming back from this failure.

And if that,

If men reach that point within their brain,

They get completely demoralized.

So it's not so much that I failed today.

It's so much that I cannot really see a path to success.

And if that happens in the male psyche,

I think they completely quit.

That can be very,

Very demoralizing.

And I feel,

So maybe that circuit is being triggered prematurely.

Like any failure they think is final,

You know,

Girl rejected me today.

Oh,

No girl is ever going to go for me.

If your brain goes to that place,

Well,

Then it's maybe logical for you never to approach a woman again,

If you really believe that.

But that's a mental distortion.

That's actually not correct.

Yeah.

And I think there's like a kind of comfort or relief you get from the assuming it's a final rejection as opposed to staying within the uncertainty of is it going to be yes or no?

Because once you have,

Once you decide on finality,

There's no more tension in the situation.

There's no more tension,

But what are you going to do?

You're going to sit around with your come up your ass for the rest of your life.

Right.

I mean,

Like what you've just quit.

So I mean,

Even if you quit once fear,

Let's say you quit one area where you feel,

You know what,

I'm never going to be as good a violin player as I want to be.

Okay,

Maybe that happens to people.

And I mean,

That happens to people.

People take on things like sports and music are good examples of this because things are so external.

Let's say you are a swimmer and you're a great swimmer in high school,

Your great dreams and then you reach a certain level and you realize,

Wow,

You are not even close in the top 10 percentile.

I'm going to be a better swimmer than 99% of the people on the planet,

But at the competition level,

I'm just not that good.

And it's a reality check.

Same thing maybe for musicians,

Like,

Well,

I'm a pretty decent violin player,

But I'm never going to be professional,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

Okay,

That's a healthy adjustment to make.

That's a good reality check.

But that doesn't mean if you can't succeed in this particular field,

You should quit everything,

That your failure is final as a human being.

Yeah.

Find something else where you can tackle failure and keep going.

In your workshops,

I'm curious,

Does this come up a lot?

Because I've turned a lot of guys onto things like Shabari and Domming and I remember the discomfort with it,

Especially initially never having done something,

That thing.

And I've heard from a lot of guys that they get frustrated,

They realize they're not holding the right space or something,

And then they feel the same thing.

And it's more than just a life challenge because you have a person who is vulnerable or trying.

Is there something you suggest to novices or trying to enter a Dom situation?

First of all,

This happens all the time.

It happens all the time.

It happens with anybody who occupies the Dom position,

But men are specifically susceptible to it,

Especially when they hear from their female partner that she's not having a good time.

That's something that didn't work for her.

Men tend to collapse really quickly,

Saying,

I know you're going to be good at this.

And the solution for that is really not rocket science.

It's like,

Be nice to each other and keep doing it.

You're in the learning stages.

It's again,

Good analogy would be like ballroom dance,

That you take a partner and you go learn a new dance.

And this is your first lesson,

My second lesson,

And third lesson,

And you're frustrated already.

If the woman is frustrated,

The guy's not leading her well,

And he's making mistakes,

Well,

You're not helping your guy.

And he does not,

He's more in his head.

The guy's frustrated,

He's not dancing elegantly by the second lesson,

Unlike you're being unrealistic.

The only solution is take it easy.

Go light,

Maintain some lightness,

Maintain some playfulness.

Otherwise you will never acquire mastery.

You will never really reach any levels because you're killing yourself and you're killing your partner off too early in the game.

Nothing will happen.

It won't work.

Then again,

This topic comes up pretty much every single class.

And it is difficult.

I can tell you,

I mean,

It's not like I blame them for feeling what they feel.

Feeling something and having someone be harsh with you or disappointed in you,

It sucks that it really hurts.

So I think some consciousness and tenderness is needed on both parts.

You have to be in a win-win game where you're doing this together and you're trying to create something together.

If you're in the business of killing each other off,

That's not a very interesting game and nothing generative and creative is going to come out of that.

DS play is really one of the very.

.

.

That attitude is badly needed in the DS realm because breakdowns are guaranteed.

I don't even care if you are a pretty advanced player and you've been doing this for a while.

Because we play with our very complicated erotic makeup and we are playing with emotions and we are playing with our triggers,

Shit's going to happen.

Things are going to go wrong.

And if you don't have a plan in place,

If you don't have an attitude in place for dealing with failures,

For keeping your heart open,

For still wanting your partner to win,

Then you know what?

You're going to create disaster and exit the scene pretty early on because breakdowns are coming.

They're guaranteed.

We can say that for any relationship.

Any relationship you get into,

Breakdowns are coming.

If you don't have a stomach to deal with them and if you're ready to kill your partner at the first sign when they are less than perfect,

You might as well quit now.

What's the point?

Really?

All right.

All right.

And I think the younger generation might be plagued by this in their intimate relationships.

They simply don't have the tolerance or the skill to deal with breakdowns,

To deal with tight spots,

Deal with when what they're doing is not working.

They don't know how to come out of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

Like I said,

I am optimistic that it is swinging back to another direction.

I think there was maybe a transition post-feminist generation that got the worst of it.

And there's enough people on both sides that recognize these virtues are important.

I feel that way too.

It's kind of crazy.

I'm feeling more hopeful today than I was maybe even six months ago.

But I don't know.

It just might be that I'm in a little bit of an echo chamber with my community because I'm hearing from people who resonate with what I do.

So I don't have a complete sense of what's happening at the population level.

But that certainly is my hope.

Because I don't think the other side,

I don't think the participation trophy generation is doing that well.

I don't think they have that much to offer.

I don't think the feminists who are the feminists who are screaming obscenities in the faces of men who want to have a conversation about male suicide are doing anything worthwhile in our society.

I don't think they're contributing or creating anything worthwhile.

I hope those people don't have a bigger presence and platform and voice in the world.

I hope their voice shrinks.

I don't think there's a good voice.

I think they are pretty ugly,

Pretty sociopathic.

And they are under the guise of victimhood like,

Oh,

We are the oppressed ones.

And I'm tired of this bait and switch.

You're not the oppressed one.

You are the oppressors at this point.

You are the assholes at this point.

Not buying it.

Yeah.

Well,

I think it was great to speak about failure and resilience.

I know you said you have one workshop for sure in Amsterdam and you're looking at other cities in Europe this spring.

I have two workshops in Amsterdam,

June 6th and 7th.

And then the weekend after that,

I'm teaching my level one and level two.

And I probably will be teaching in other cities in Europe,

Still figuring out the logistics.

Might be in Berlin,

Might be in Prague.

Cool.

Cool.

Vienna,

Paris.

Yeah,

I'll be in Berlin in July.

So I'd love to stop by if it happens to line up.

I'll update you as that schedule comes together.

I'm also teaching here.

I'm going to Austin in February,

Back in Miami in March.

Laurie and I are in Portland in May.

We're in Toronto.

I think also later in March.

So there's a bunch of classes.

You can just go to omerpong.

Org.

Everything's listed there.

Cool.

Awesome.

All right.

Well,

Thanks,

Om.

My pleasure,

Ralph.

Hey,

Thanks for listening to the podcast.

If you want to catch the rest of my work,

Go to Luandao.

Com.

Catch me on social media,

At Luandao.

And please do not forget to subscribe.

All I want to say now is a lot of's will be down in the deep.

So you won't want to see me down.

Keep me around for another three.

Just take a break,

Take a break,

Take a break,

Take a break.

You're breathing in the streets.

Just another break.

Truce,

I dress in a foam boots.

I'm in vulnerable.

Darks no optimist.

Say optional.

I'm in a bad,

Uncomfortable.

You want a piece of me?

Take the whole thing golden.

Not stolen,

I give it away.

Truth ain't black and white.

Even act right,

Right?

There's still a little gray.

I'm coming from blue and straight to your head,

Folks.

I get nothing but hate.

Don't break.

Don't knock on my back.

Hit the road,

Dawg.

Make the speed.

Don't stop.

Don't stop.

Don't stop.