Remap Your Life With The Big Simple

I have a varied conversation with Liliana and Susan from The Big Simple.

Susan Marmot and Lilliana Bellini are co-founders of The Big Simple which runs workshops for vulnerable young people from the care system and their support network. They used to work in the natural health sector, run programs designed to help people in prison with their mental health, and are lead facilitators at Slice of Happiness who help people affected by homelessness.

Transcript

Hello,

I'm Anne-Marie Pearman and I'm joined today by Liliana Bellini and Susan Marmot who,

Along with Louise Scott,

Are co-founders of The Big Simple.

So thanks for joining me Liliana and Susan.

My first question is,

I know you were friends before you started The Big Simple,

So how do you know each other?

So we go way back,

23 years we've known each other for and we met on a training we were doing,

We were doing a training homeopathy and yeah we met there and then we've been friends ever since.

And what was the inspiration for The Big Simple?

What started you off on that track?

Well it was,

It was lockdown and we,

We had until that point been working in the prisons just before lockdown,

Taking this understanding we're going to be talking about here into the prisons and obviously during lockdown we weren't able to do that.

So there was a period of time for reflection and,

And all,

During that time,

You know,

I think individually we all had a chance to sort of think about where we wanted to go next,

What we wanted to do and we had this idea we had this idea to start something that was,

You know,

Our inspiration.

Also continuing working in the community,

Working with people who wouldn't be able to access this privately and so we started having conversations about it and it was three of us and we spent a lot of lockdown,

Locked up in our individual homes,

But discussing how we were going to put this,

Put this together,

What that was going to look like.

We built a website,

We wrote the copy with the help of a really great website designer and,

And we,

And we,

And we launched before we were able to launch out into the world,

We launched during lockdown the,

You know,

A lot of work on logos and really thinking about who we wanted to help.

We put a lot of work into it and then,

Yeah,

Then,

Then after lockdown came we could go out into the world and start working with people.

How does life look like on a day-to-day basis for you with The Big Simple?

I mean,

I've been to your events that you run,

Is it every Monday or just once a month?

The,

Thank god it's Monday events that you do.

TGI Monday,

We do them once a month and we wanted to have in-person meetups again because everybody got used to doing things online and it's been amazing because we can get to,

We reach people with the work we do who wouldn't normally be able to get out of the house or don't want to and so,

And the in-person,

As we all know,

Is special because,

You know,

It's just like,

It's a completely different kind of way of connecting,

You know.

So,

So we do those once a month but we have a couple of projects going.

So,

It's,

It's,

We love,

We love the way we work actually because it's the,

From the start there was never any,

You know,

It's,

It feels comfortable,

It feels like we really found a way to work that,

That feels right to us because we work for other organizations,

Amazing organizations,

Charities but this one,

It's our own and it's our own pace for now anyway.

Maybe the pressure will,

Will increase but,

So there's not much stress,

There is a lot of connection,

Connect,

Meaningful connection amongst us and this expanded team that we,

We created and there is a lot of reflection but also a great sense of purpose for the,

What we want to do in the world.

So,

Answering your question,

Little stress and a lot of good feeling,

That's what it looks like.

You want to add?

And each day,

Each day looks different.

I mean,

We're working on a project at the moment but we were lucky enough around,

Just after Christmas,

We found out we'd won a grant with a co-,

The co-production collective at UCL and they,

They'd taken on,

I think it's seven or eight companies and they want to evaluate how co-production works so they were looking for companies that were working in mental health.

So,

We applied and we won the grant so we put together a special team just for this project and we,

We meet once a week where we discuss all,

All our ongoing business and get on with whatever we need to get on with next and that team consists of the three of us and Derek Mason and Siobhan,

I'm not going to say her surname very well,

It's a Conado,

I can't remember,

Skye she calls herself but Siobhan and Kate Sherwell,

As I said Derek,

And Nikki Bouchard and it's a really magical team and we love coming together so that's what we do at the moment and as what our project's about,

Engaging,

Learning how to better engage organisations in order to be able to get our message across effectively and because it's quite difficult to talk about what we do is,

As you know,

It can,

It can feel a little bit elusive so we want to get better at doing that so that's part of what we're going to be doing with this project and then we're hoping to then engage an organisation and then deliver a project but with them,

With that,

With the organisation that we work with they're going to help us create a programme that's bespoke for them so that we'll have a co-productive element to that as well and at the moment we are in talks with a women's refuge who are very interested and we're really interested to work with them so it's really exciting and we love this project and we love coming together and working together on this.

Yeah,

I mean there is a lot of the words co-production and as kind of,

You know,

We hear them often now but this is very exciting because,

You know,

Even the way we worked,

We've always worked,

There were strong elements of co-production so,

You know,

We always work with people with lived experience on the team,

That's the aim is to have people with lived experience and then collaborate and create,

You know,

Programmes with them and with everyone else so that's the kind of,

And we value enormously the input of people with lived experience so it's amazing that we get to become even more conscious about this and consciously bring it in,

In the way we work so that's a beautiful opportunity to do that with the support and the help and the funding of an establishment as amazing as UCL.

Looking at your website briefly last night,

I know that you've got a great passion around the care system working with people who've been through the care system,

Would you like to talk about that a bit?

Yeah,

So to date or in the past we've worked with an organisation called The Big House where we were working with people who were their cohort,

Some have been through the care system and it was something that when we first set up The Big Simple we felt passionate about basically because we're all mothers and we wanted to help that cohort we felt drawn to support people who maybe didn't have the support network of a,

You know,

A loving family or people around them so we felt passionate about helping them and we've opened up and,

You know,

Gaining this grant we were,

We had to have a fresh new project so we we had to have a fresh new project so we weren't,

For this grant we were never going to work with the cohort that we've worked with before,

It was about engaging a different new cohort and,

You know,

We've all always been passionate about helping anybody,

I mean this understanding is for anybody with a head so it helps and benefits anybody,

We've always wanted to help people who couldn't access it privately,

Either find funding or offer it,

You know,

Very reasonably so that they could access it too but we are really open to work with anyone who is in need and who's struggling.

And you're referring to this understanding,

I understand what you're talking about when you say this understanding but people watching this might not so could,

Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by this understanding?

It's,

It's a simple way of understanding how the mind works and from the inside out and by that we mean that our experience of life,

The way we feel moment to moment comes from us,

So life doesn't come to us,

It comes from us through the power of thought,

So we have thoughts and then we feel them through the,

Through our consciousness,

We become conscious of what we are thinking and then we feel what we are thinking.

So this is one aspect,

Fundamental aspect of this understanding and it doesn't seem like much but when we really do see for ourselves insightfully that the way we feel comes from us ultimately,

It's a game changer because then our experience,

Everything that's happening on the outside which is actually still happening because life does happen,

We're not making it up,

As tough as it can be when we can see our part,

The part we play in the way we feel,

It kind of,

We stop being so frightened of what's happening outside and we feel more empowered without actually having to do anything or apply anything,

It's just a waking up by,

To what,

How our mind,

Beautiful creative mind works.

So that's one aspect but the second aspect of this understanding basically points to the fact that we,

Every single human being is part,

We come from a deeper,

From a deeper order,

Deeper intelligence,

It's the intelligence behind life that's in essence where we come from,

Who we are and so when we look at ourselves like that we kind of start to wake up to the infinite potential we have naturally and to how whatever is happening on the outside can never actually touch or damage that,

It remains intact and we can dip into it,

We are plugged in 24-7 from the moment we are born until we die and then who knows,

But we are plugged in and we can,

With this understanding we learn to kind of become more interested in that part of us which is infinitely resourceful and loving and creative and less interested in what we create with the thinking that we do.

I hope that kind of,

We all have a different way of explaining it but it's very freeing and Susan and I worked with hundreds of people who basically been written off,

Both in prisons and in the community and we already,

We saw,

We worked with a certainty that people are not beyond help,

Nobody is beyond help,

But we saw so much evidence of this in the way we've done,

The work we've done and so it's very freeing,

It's life-changing and in a very simple way.

You know what Lily was talking about,

About what's kind of underneath,

Underneath all the noise and you know,

Once people understand a bit better how their mind works and how thought works and they get a bit less interested or less caught up in their usual thinking and you know,

We tell ourselves so many stories about ourselves that then hold us back because as Lily was saying,

We then feel everything we tell ourselves and then you know,

It holds us back,

So underneath that is our okayness and when people start to understand what we're going on about,

They touch that okayness a lot more and then they're still dealing with their same life problems,

They've still got their circumstances but they become,

As Lily was saying,

More resourceful about dealing with it because anytime our heads are a little bit quieter or there's a bit more space,

It leaves room for fresh thought to come in,

Fresh ideas,

New way of looking at things,

You see things on the horizon that you can't see when your head is so filled with things,

So people start to wake up to this in the programs that we run and you see it,

You see their eyes suddenly light up again and they start to feel hope and possibility where there was none before and just because their heads have cleared and they're able to access who they are beneath all that thinking.

While you're talking,

I was thinking about somebody in my own life who has a habit of blaming other people for the way they're feeling and I was thinking if somebody was,

Going back to the care system idea,

Somebody was in the care system,

It'd be very easy for them to blame their parents for everything that's happened to them in their life or whatever misfortunes they had,

Which ended up with them in that situation,

So how would you coach somebody,

If that's the right word,

To stop blaming others for the way they're feeling?

It's a good question because we work with so many people who have,

Looking back in their lives or in the present circumstances,

There are really kind of good reasons to blame the outside,

Someone else or an event or a shock or something that happened,

Sorry,

That happened and that's why I feel like this.

So first of all,

We receive people's stories with a lot of compassion and love.

We listen and then,

But we also are very committed to kind of helping people to understand what has happened from a different perspective and by that I mean,

I know I have experienced what it's like to be in that blame place.

It doesn't feel good and there's nowhere to go really because you really feel the discomfort and the injustice or something and you can't get stuck in that feeling day in day out for years,

Weeks,

Months,

Years and you're probably the person suffering the most.

So what has helped me,

For instance,

Is to understand a few things,

I mean from this perspective,

This understanding,

Is that especially for things that are finished and done with,

It's even easier to see it,

Is that we all want to live in a nice feeling and yet,

You know,

We kind of wake up and we kind of buy into the same stories day in day out,

Day in day out and then we're surprised that we feel bad.

So with this understanding,

We realize that the only way we can feel and experience in that kind of painful way something that happened,

If it's when we think about it.

So how,

You know,

People say about how do we not think about it.

Realizing that,

You know,

The nature of thought,

I mean we could go into it,

But it's a lot to do with understanding that if it's true that we experience our thinking moment to moment always,

It's what we are,

Ultimately what we experience.

If that's true and we understand the nature of thought,

Thought is energy passing through us.

It's like,

You know,

We have thousands,

70 to 120 thousand thoughts a day and they go through us and that's inevitable and that will continue to happen because we are human and that's a gift that we have.

If we understand that that happens and also we understand that thought is energy,

It's not solid and therefore it comes and goes,

It comes through us and goes and when it goes it takes the feeling that has attached to it,

It will take it away.

Then we can start quite naturally to make better choices in what we pay attention to at a thought level.

Okay,

So I'd love you to kind of speak to this as well because,

But we are thinkers and we experience what we think,

Even the bad things in the past and we start not to bother so much with all the thinking we have about our past and we let it flow,

It becomes more fluid,

It becomes more transient,

Which is what thought does when it's left alone.

And,

You know,

Going back to the question that you asked about,

You know,

What happens if somebody's suffering because they're in their,

Almost like a victim mentality is what you were sort of talking about.

And,

You know,

Like Lily says,

We let people talk and share whatever they want to talk and share,

But if we're going to be of use to them,

Then we're not going to stay in the content of their story with them.

We're sorry that any of these things happen to them,

But if we want to be of use to them,

For them going forward when they have challenges in the future,

And also to get to that place where they've got a little bit more spaciousness,

And we all do better when we've got more spaciousness in our head,

Then we have to teach them how it works behind the scenes.

We have to teach them how they experience anything moment to moment to moment.

And then once we show them these things,

And how thought actually works,

And the nature of thought,

What it's made of,

And how if we leave it alone,

It moves by itself.

There's many things we could talk about here about that.

But the more we show them that,

The more they start to be less interested in grabbing the same old,

The same old,

The same old.

And every time we grab the same old,

We will have the same experience.

You don't grab the same old and have a different experience.

And so,

In time,

They'll start to see that for themselves.

And it won't make sense for them to keep doing it.

It's a bit like Dickon Bettinger,

Who's one of the great teachers of this,

Used to say,

You know,

It's like having a hammer in your hand,

And you're hitting your own head.

And you suddenly realize that it hurts,

But you're holding the hammer.

And we show them how they can put the hammer down.

Yeah,

I love that.

And,

You know,

What happens when we wake up to this,

How the mind works,

Is that then there is an opportunity to also experience who we truly are,

Beyond the stories that we've been telling ourselves,

Which hurt,

By the way,

Those stories hurt.

They come with a conceit,

Often with a lot of pain.

So we start to,

If we kind of have a break,

A little bit of a break in the space between us and that story,

What happens is that who we truly are,

Which is beautiful and perfect,

Really,

You know,

And resourceful and peaceful and loving,

And light.

We start to have more fun,

To relax,

To breathe a little bit more,

You know.

And then we don't feel so damaged anymore,

Because that part of us can't be touched.

We wake up to that,

And we relax a bit more.

So it's like,

You know,

You see thought,

And how the mind works,

And then you get to experience yourself.

And because of that,

You use your mind a little bit,

You become wiser in the way you use your mind.

And then you fall into a deeper connection with life and people,

And everything kind of starts to get easier.

And this is in a nutshell,

But we could have conversations about this and so many more.

But basically,

We will be speaking about these two things from different angles.

I think it's also important to say that this understanding is called the understanding of the three principles.

And it comes from the amazing insights that a very humble,

Beautiful man called Sidney Banks had in mid 70s.

And then very,

Very beautifully,

Naturally,

It's been kind of reaching people everywhere,

Firstly from within the psychology,

Psychiatry fields,

And then everywhere.

So we owe it to him,

The way he has put it into words,

Which was so simple and beautiful and stripped.

He described something that was already happening.

But it did that very simply.

So we are grateful to him.

Yeah.

And you know,

Some of the first people that went to hear Sid Banks talk were psychiatrists and psychologists.

And they,

As well as starting to feel better themselves from what they heard,

They started to talk to their clients in a different way,

And their clients started to get better.

And many of them found their practices changed dramatically once they started sharing this.

It's a very,

Very different direction to,

Say,

A normal session where you would very much go into the content,

Instead talking about how thought works,

How the mind works.

And then people started to get better.

While you were talking earlier,

I had my own,

There's an issue in my neighborhood at the moment around car parking.

And it's like,

How do you stop,

It's just come into my head,

How do you stop the thoughts being contagious?

So for example,

We can get ourselves,

I'm trying not to say too much,

So I don't drop anyone in it,

But go on,

Drop people in it,

Yeah.

So for example,

Myself and another person can start talking about issues we have with another neighbor,

And we're winding each other up.

We're on our dog walks,

Gossiping,

Bitching,

Winding each other up,

Winding each other up,

Winding each other up,

Starting to hate this individual,

And hate this individual,

And hate this,

Hate's a very strong word.

I'm not saying really hate,

But you know what I mean,

Dislike maybe,

Intensely.

How do you,

I'm trying to know what I'm asking here,

Think about how to frame this as a question really.

How do you stop thought from becoming contagious?

Okay,

Off again.

So,

You know,

Sometimes I'm doing that,

By the way.

I do that,

Sometimes we do that,

Don't we,

Lily?

And as you're doing it,

I always say,

In a way,

I can do that for fun.

It's not that fun,

Because it doesn't feel that good when you're in the middle of it,

But it's missing,

As you're doing it,

And as you're starting to sort of talk about somebody in that kind of way,

And you're creating your own feeling about that person from the thinking you're having about that person.

Now,

What tends to happen with me is I can get into a right one,

And I'm going on,

And they're so,

It's so unfair,

And it's,

You know,

It's so unjust,

And why did this happen?

And then later on,

I'm finished the conversation,

And then later on,

I'm not having that thinking about that situation,

Because I'm not talking to anyone,

It's not occurring to me,

And I will have fresh thinking about that situation that is really different to the thinking I'm having when I'm in one of those conversations.

And that happens time and time again,

So it's,

When we're in one of those,

In one of those,

We're not seeing the whole situation clearly,

Because we're only seeing it through the thinking we're having,

And that's not seeing it clearly.

So,

When you finish that,

You'll probably have some more useful and more compassionate thinking about the situation,

And it's just remembering that when you're in it,

So it's not taking it too seriously.

I mean,

Sure,

You want to have a bit of a go every now and again,

And I'm sure you're having annoying thinking about that person,

And that's natural and normal,

But it's not clarity.

I know,

And ultimately,

You know,

We want it to be whatever we're doing with ourselves,

And the way we talk,

And what we share,

And how we communicate,

Where we ultimately,

We want it to be a bit helpful,

You know.

It's like when we've known each other for a long time,

And so many times in the past,

Before we got this,

This understanding came across,

We came across this understanding,

And we started to reconsider the value of exploring and digging into content.

So,

We would get together on the phone,

Or if we had a problem,

Or if something bothered us badly,

Or whatever,

Someone,

And we would really dig into it,

And it was like scratching at,

I don't know,

Something itchy that is going to bleed,

You know,

And we were like,

But this,

And she said that,

And you know,

And okay,

We can do,

There is a little bit of pleasure in doing that when it itches,

But now we're like,

We run out of,

We run out of desire to,

You know,

The will to kind of keep scratching,

So we put it down,

Don't we,

And with,

Oh,

We don't even bother most of the time,

Especially the two of us,

Because we kind of appreciate the mind differently.

We're like,

All right,

Sometimes we just let it all out,

And within a few minutes it's done,

And we don't have the need to stay with that,

Or we don't even bother,

And then we allow the space for each other,

If the other one has a problem,

We would,

We probably listen more,

And create a space where the other one can run out of steam.

Yeah,

And have their own insight.

Yes,

And have,

Yeah,

And it's,

I mean,

But how do you,

How do you not make it contagious?

I mean,

Sometimes,

You know,

We're human,

And it is,

You know,

We are getting into it with someone else,

And telling them the whole story,

And then they start on their bit,

But there comes a point,

Which I'm sure you feel when you're in that conversation,

Where you even run out of steam,

Because you know what you're,

You know what you're doing,

And it doesn't,

You don't even really want to keep going,

And because they don't have the understanding,

Maybe they want to keep going,

But you're kind of done.

I don't know if you have that experience.

Yeah.

I remember talking to somebody else,

Dave Robinson,

About this,

Because this has been going on for a while now,

And myself and my other neighbour were having a conversation about this other individual,

And saying,

He used to be so nice,

What's happened?

And then I said,

Oh well,

Maybe it's COVID has just sent him a bit,

You know,

Off the rails or something,

And Dave said,

See,

Even in that moment,

You've got compassion,

Even though we were sort of like having a bit of a bitching session about this individual,

We did have compassion for him at the same time,

And I suppose it's looking for the compassion,

Isn't it?

It's a beautiful point,

And you know what happens when we can appreciate how we are making it all up,

The way we feel about that person is an inside job.

They're also doing that,

You know,

If they're showing up in the world or in life in a way that is not nice,

You know,

It's a product of what's going on in their heads,

And how much they're buying into it.

So compassion,

Which is a beautiful thing,

Used to feel like something that we should be doing,

Having,

Feeling about people in life,

And if we are good people,

Then we have compassion,

And now it just pops up,

It just comes up,

And you're like,

Oh,

Maybe they're having a bad day,

Maybe they're,

You know,

Really having a hard time in life,

And this,

You know,

Their mind is so caught up in it that this is the best they can do.

So it's not like something we should be feeling,

It's something that naturally occurs because it comes from our true selves.

Our essence is compassionate,

Is understanding,

And therefore it's not something,

Another tick that we have to do,

You know,

Each day,

And we should be compassionate,

Good people,

And that again,

You see how effortless then it becomes when we appreciate the power of thought,

And how much we and other people can get caught up,

And when we're caught up,

I'm not a very nice person when I'm caught up,

To be honest.

I'm not really nice to be around when I'm really caught up in my mind,

And still,

I think I'm a good person,

But,

You know,

Sometimes I'm not that nice to be around,

Because I'm in my head about something.

The difference is that I run out of steam more quickly,

And I get out of the way a bit,

And then,

And that's the big difference.

Okay,

I'm going to move on slightly away from Big Simple,

And to your little side project,

So starting with Susan.

I know you've been involved a lot in romantic relationship workshops,

And that sort of thing in the past.

I'm perpetually single,

So tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Okay,

Well,

You're right,

It is a,

Uh,

Something I'm particularly interested in,

And it's the part of my life,

When I,

When I came across this understanding,

It affected this area of my life,

And made it unrecognisable to how it had been for the previous,

I don't know,

I mean,

35,

40 years of,

You know,

Prior to knowing this,

And I had had different relationships,

And I had struggled over,

And over,

And over again,

In different ways,

With different people,

And sometimes it would be good for a while,

And other,

And you know,

Lily,

Being a very old friend of mine,

Has had many,

Many earfuls of,

You know,

Me calling her,

I don't know whether I should be with this person,

You know,

I don't know if it's right,

I'm,

You know,

Let down,

I'm disappointed,

I'm,

I don't know if I love,

You know,

All of these sorts of things,

And I don't think you ever have had a single earful of late on about that subject.

I mean,

It's unbelievable,

It's gone from,

You know,

Probably being,

For me,

Maybe 80% of what I'd have talked to you about,

To zero.

I mean,

That's how powerful it is,

Knowing this.

So,

Knowing this is a good start,

And I think the,

The,

A starting point is,

Obviously,

Kind of getting yourself out there to spend some time with people,

And get to know them,

And I think that the best thing is,

At the beginning,

Certainly,

Is to try not to jump too far into the future,

Because it's certainly something that's very tempting to do,

When you're sitting down,

Having a cup of tea with someone who you've never met before,

Could I be with this man?

No,

Don't,

That's not helpful thinking,

It's like,

Just stay really present in the moment,

And really get to know who's in front of you,

And the thing is,

Two people who are very in the moment,

And not in their heads,

Are actually going to have a good time,

Because they're really listening to each other,

They're really connecting,

And they're connecting beneath all that fear,

And worry,

And all of that stuff,

And chances are,

You'll want to do it again,

If you connect in that way,

And I think that's very much what relationship is about,

Is about wanting to do it again,

That's how I feel,

You know,

Today,

I've been married now for,

Been with my husband now for,

Coming up for eight years,

And we've been married for five,

I think it is this summer,

And I want to do it,

I want to do it today,

I want to do it tomorrow,

And tomorrow,

Hopefully,

I want to do it the next day,

I don't even jump too far into the future,

He's been away for a few days,

And you know,

It's brilliant,

Because I,

You know,

Sometimes I have that,

I get irritated,

Or annoyed,

Or I'm really off,

And then I think,

You know,

Is this right,

You can have the thought,

Is this right for me,

When you're feeling really off,

But I don't take that seriously,

I'm really off,

It's got nothing to do with my relationship,

And there was so much that was going on internally for me,

Insecurity,

Worry,

Anxiety,

Not feeling good enough,

And I put it all into the relationship,

And want the partner to take it all away from me,

Which they never did,

Because it doesn't work that way,

And then I think the relationship was no good,

I don't drop into the relationship what doesn't belong in the relationship,

It's my relationship,

Is with me and my head,

That's my business,

And for me to sort out,

And then my time with Jeremy,

Is about spending our time present,

And enjoying each other,

And also not taking it personally,

If he's not present,

Or I'm not present,

So what,

That's just human,

We're both a bit distracted,

So it's,

I have constant learning all the time,

That I,

There is,

That I see it like,

You know,

Those,

What are they called,

Those holes in the road,

Potholes,

Yeah,

There are so many,

I used to fall down every pothole that came along,

And now I don't,

Because I know what's happening,

I get,

Start to feel different,

And I think,

Oh yeah,

You're just a bit off,

Or take a walk,

Or have a bath,

Or whatever it is,

But it doesn't belong in the relationship,

And then we get to really enjoy each other,

And then of course,

Why wouldn't we want to do it tomorrow,

So my advice would be,

Just with the dating thing,

Of trying to stay present,

Try not to jump too far in the future,

Bring,

And if you find yourself getting nervous,

And worried,

Just try and come back,

And they will love hanging with you,

And want to do it again.

I'm going back to thinking of myself as a younger person,

I used to date somebody,

And within almost like the first date,

I was imagining how my name would sound with their surname,

Pathetic,

I know,

But you know,

I did it,

I've done it many times,

But it's beautiful,

I mean,

I've seen this unfolding for Susan,

And it's really beautiful to see,

And to see her so happy,

And you know what,

Sometimes when we had those conversations,

I was like,

Can't you see how amazing you are,

And she couldn't,

Can't you see how desirable you are,

And how you're not broken,

You're not,

You know,

And you don't need fixing,

And she couldn't,

Now she can,

Now you can,

You can really,

Truly,

And I,

You know,

And that's beautiful,

And that's available to everyone,

And you know,

You really fell in love with yourself,

And then you fell in love with a man,

Or maybe at the same time,

But you know,

We always say that,

For happiness in a relationship,

You really want to find that love for yourself,

And I know it sounds like a cliche,

But hey,

It's so true,

And I think this way of understanding the human experience,

And people,

Really helps us to like,

Stop,

And pause,

And reconsider everything about ourselves,

And really kind of become interested in that,

Which is beautiful,

And whole,

And then how can you,

We not then go out in the world,

And find love,

If we already are love,

You know,

This we can't,

You don't have to find it,

Because we already have it within,

So I think that's a game changer,

I mean,

I won't go into my experience of this,

But just to say that,

I mean,

I remember kind of waking up one day,

And looking at my husband of 30,

And now 30,

I've been with him for 35 years,

And thinking,

Oh my goodness,

You're a different man,

And he wasn't,

He was the same man,

But you know,

I was wearing different glasses,

You know,

And actually,

I wasn't wearing any glasses,

I could see him,

And I,

And then I started to think,

My God,

My relationship can feel fresh every day,

If I show up with,

With,

Not with all,

Same old,

Same old,

But with an open mind to just have new,

Fresh thinking each day,

And,

And,

And I know that potential remains intact,

So I can have a hard time one day,

And I'm thinking all this old stuff about my husband,

And then guess what,

I will experience my husband according to how I'm thinking about him,

Rather than this freshness that is available to us every day,

Isn't it?

Yeah.

And it's,

It's like,

It's incredible,

It's the biggest gift for someone who doesn't have a relationship,

Or is within a new relationship,

Or in a very kind of longer relationship,

So.

And that,

And that loving yourself that you were talking about,

And you're reminding me of all my old insecurities,

And feeling like I was damaged,

And trying to not let the other person know I was so down,

You know,

All that stuff,

It's like,

And I had read it many,

Many times,

Oh,

You need to fall in love with yourself before you meet someone,

But it just sounds like a job to do,

When we say it like that,

And it really,

Really isn't,

It's like,

We are everything we could ever want to be,

When we're not thinking that we're not,

So it's just that same old thing about understanding how thought works,

Means you drop back into,

You drop back into this place beneath,

Where you feel your okayness,

And when we go out and meet people from that place,

It's beautiful,

And it,

You connect,

And it's very,

Very natural for two people who are not in their heads to feel a deep sense of connection,

And fun,

You have the best fun,

You know,

When you're relaxed with friends,

And you've got nothing on it,

And that's when you have the best fun,

And it's like that in relationship as well,

And we just get really serious about it,

Because we think we have to be serious in order to protect ourselves,

Or to keep ourselves safe,

Or because this is a really serious subject,

Absolutely not,

You actually keep yourself safer,

If you're just very,

Very present,

Because you'll see clearly what's in front of you.

So,

So true,

And I really love it,

And I'm thinking,

You know,

When we're present,

And we're not caught up in our heads,

We are wiser,

We know what's actually right for us,

And what maybe isn't,

And it comes from clarity,

And an uncomplicated kind of mindset,

And this,

I'm saying this,

Because sometimes,

You know,

You say,

Yeah,

But if there's a problem in the relationship,

It's,

You know,

And whether you want to,

It's right for you to leave,

Or not,

Or whether,

We're not even talking about that,

We're just saying that with a clear,

Spacious mind,

We are wiser,

We are more intuitive,

We are more,

We have a sense of what was the next step,

Even in a relationship,

Or who to date,

Who not to date,

You know,

It does seem to open up a bit,

The whole thing,

Because it's like,

If you're in a relationship,

You're more likely to end up happy in that relationship,

If you're not in a relationship,

You're more likely to,

If that's what you want,

To find someone that you can actually have fun,

And be happy with,

So it just has a way of sorting things out for you,

Without you having to get too busy,

You know,

It's like,

Oh,

Okay,

Things open up,

Possibilities.

Well,

This is,

As you're speaking,

It reminds me,

Because,

You know,

A lot of people have a lot of fed up thinking about doing it on the internet,

Finding a partner on the internet,

Because it's,

You know,

It's not worked out in the past,

Or people don't respond,

Or,

You know,

There's a lot of reasons that that can be,

And I think going,

You know,

If you're looking on apps,

Or on the internet,

To find love,

I think it's nice to do it when you're in a good feeling,

Because I think,

As Lily was saying,

You see possibility,

You will see things that perhaps you won't see when you're going on with your cynical thinking,

Of,

Oh,

This can never happen for me,

There's no good ones here,

I'm not saying that that's fixed,

But I think it might be a nice place to start,

You're in a good feeling,

Go on and see what you see.

Yes,

Sorry,

You don't take into the relation all the stories you thought you had about yourself in relation to relationships,

You know,

If,

With this,

You're like,

No,

I think I'm going to leave it home,

I'm not going to take that on my date,

You're not,

You're not lovable,

You're not attractive,

You're this,

You need to lose weight,

You need to gain weight,

You need to pay sleep,

Whatever you want,

You leave it at home,

And you show up,

You know,

You just show up,

So you don't take all the crap that you've been telling yourself about relationships on a date,

There wouldn't be much space in that day,

On that date,

To actually see the person,

Hear the person,

You'll be sitting there listening to you,

And you're in a commentary about how you're very undateable,

And you know,

You're not good enough,

You're not sexy enough,

You know,

You can leave it at home,

Imagine showing up on a date without all of that,

Much lighter,

You know,

Much more space,

And then the person will know that you're there with them,

Connecting,

That's very attractive,

When someone feels that you are really present for them,

And as we were saying,

It's like,

That is very attractive,

You know,

And I know,

I mean,

I used to be more self-conscious now,

I often go,

If I go to parties,

If I dance,

Or whatever,

You know,

I'm just like,

I don't take much of my thinking about me,

And in that environment with me,

So I think I'm more attractive,

You know,

When I don't,

But it's not a calculation,

You know,

Before I used to be like,

Oh,

Do I look good with this,

And what about my bum,

Whatever,

You know,

Why did I say that,

Or da da da,

My God,

There's so much noise,

That takes you away,

And it also takes away some of your gorgeousness that is there anyway.

Yeah,

And I mean,

It's true,

When we are being our natural selves,

We are way more attractive,

It just is,

It just is,

We don't need the bells and whistles we think we need,

We are much more attractive when we're just being us,

And the other thing I'd just say about dating that I've seen other friends do who don't have this understanding is that people can get into very heavy topics as a way of,

To them,

They think that's about connection,

You know,

That's how we connect,

I tell you all my dark and awful things,

And you tell me about your dark and awful things,

And that's not putting you in a good feeling together,

And it's not to say you can't share these things,

But I don't think it's first date material,

And if you feel the feeling dropping,

If you feel that your own feeling is dropping,

Step away and come back in again,

I don't mean physically step away,

But you know what I mean,

Start again,

Because if it's taking it in a place where you both of your feeling has dropped,

That's not really helpful,

And good.

Yeah,

Oh we could go on,

Can't we?

I've got 10 minutes left,

So shall we start talking about,

Is it pronounced Nia,

Your exercise classes you do?

Yes,

You did mention that you wanted to touch on that,

And it's called Nia,

I think it's a neuromuscular integration action,

But let's put those words to one side,

And I was quite happy that you wanted to explore that a bit,

Because coming from this perspective of kind of understanding how the mind works,

And you know,

And having been involved in this work for a few years,

There was always a part that we don't quite touch enough,

Which is a very important part of the human experience,

It's a necessary part,

We do have a body,

We are physical beings,

As well as energy beings,

And so we don't often talk about the body,

And you know,

How to celebrate our bodies,

And really honour the magnificence of the human body enough.

So I,

You know,

The understanding of the three principles made me even more appreciative of what such,

There's such wisdom and intelligence,

That it's,

You know,

Our bodies is an expression of that,

And sometimes I look at my feet and think,

Oh my god,

They're so gorgeous,

Not because they're perfect,

But because what they do for me,

I think they are like 26 bones,

33 muscles and tendons,

And you know,

They're like exquisitely designed to do an extraordinary job,

Okay,

So sometimes I watch telly and I'm barefoot,

I think,

Oh my god,

I love you,

I love your feet,

Really,

I'm so grateful,

You know,

And they get me around,

And they get me to move in nature,

And we don't appreciate just how exquisite the design is of our body,

Of our body is.

So this Nia thing that I do,

It's a way of celebrating that,

And it's a movement form,

It's a fusion of different movement forms that come from martial arts and ballet,

Jazz,

And it was kind of,

It came about in the 80s,

When there was a lot of high impact exercise,

And it was kind of an answer to kind of take away the impact and help people to connect with their bodies and move with beautiful music in a way that feels right for you,

And guided by this sensation of pleasure,

Not discomfort,

Which because we think,

Oh,

If you,

If we don't suffer,

Then we're not,

You know,

Doing enough,

And so I trained 13 years ago,

And I,

14 years ago,

And it's been a hobby and a passion,

And I teach classes,

But the focus is,

Veramente,

I'm speaking Italian,

Its focus is on listening,

Deep listening to your body,

What does my body need,

So that it feels better,

How can I move,

So that I,

So that I end up after this hour,

Feeling more connected to my body,

More grateful,

More,

And also less stiff,

Or,

You know,

How can I heal my knees,

Or my elbow,

I had a major accident with the bicycle,

And because of Nia,

And because of the understanding of the principles,

That really kind of encourages us to listen deeply to our own inner guidance,

So Nia is a gorgeous way of doing that with music,

With people,

With some steps,

Some choreography,

And a lot of free dance,

If you want it,

So,

It,

And it's a low impact,

Full body workout,

Barefoot,

So again,

The feet,

You barefoot it,

Because when we,

We're so used to wearing,

You know,

Support,

And layers,

And,

You know,

When we are barefoot,

We,

We,

The feedback tells us what is safe for us,

How can we move in a safe way,

And rather than doing things that maybe we shouldn't be doing,

So it's a very joyful movement form,

And it's for everyone,

Any kind of,

Any level of fitness,

Or flexibility,

Or age,

It welcomes everyone,

And it invites each and every one to follow your own inner guidance when it comes to movement,

So that it becomes healing,

So come along.

Is there anything else that I haven't touched on that you'd like to talk about?

I'm so happy that we're doing this today,

Because it's like kind of introducing something that we've been wanting to do for a while,

And I'm having such a good time,

That maybe we might just go away thinking,

Thank you,

And you've given us,

Kind of,

You've opened the app for us,

So it's lovely.

What made you want to do that?

Just an idea I had towards the end of last year,

I thought,

I deliberately had a break from doing the Zooms,

And just had a year off doing it,

Then at the end of the last year,

I thought,

Why don't I,

Once every other month,

Start doing professional looking podcasts,

For an hour,

And just,

You know,

See how it goes,

So I'm looking at doing it this year,

Probably,

I'll do a maximum of six,

And see how it goes,

And how I feel after those six,

So I've got Caroline Power lined up for the next one in June,

I'll be talking to her,

Hopefully,

And that's it.

How do you feel about today's one?

Have you enjoyed this?

I feel relaxed,

Actually,

I thought my nerves were going to get the better of me,

But after a few minutes,

I was fine.

I felt the same way,

I thought that they would,

But I've really just relaxed and enjoyed it,

And really loved the conversation,

And the atmosphere,

Yeah,

It's really nice here.

I will put a link to The Big Simple in the description,

And any other links you want me to include around your social media,

Around Nia,

Or your relationship work,

If you want me to,

And thanks for watching,

And please like and subscribe if you like the content,

And I'll sign off,

So that's goodbye from me,

Anne-Marie,

And Susan,

And Liliana.

Thank you,

Thank you for having us.

Thank you.