Overcoming Perfectionism

This week we’re talking about how to overcome perfectionism. Each of us share about how we operate as perfectionists and where it causes suffering in our lives for us and the people around us. We’ll also talk about how perfectionism and anxiety are often connected before we dive headfirst into our spiritual tool kits. Do you suffer with perfectionism and unrealistic expectations? Let us know how you’re meeting that kind of suffering in your life and what tools are helping you be a little easier with yourself and your expectations.

Transcript

Thanks for joining us here on Pretty Spiritual where we're attempting the unthinkable about how to navigate this messy,

Beautiful,

Imperfect life with spiritual tools,

Principles,

And our own personal stories.

So we're not experts,

We're not religious,

We're definitely silly.

We're honest,

Real,

And willing to share.

So join us as we connect,

Bond,

And grow together.

Hey everyone.

Hey guys.

Oh,

We're so glad that you could join us here today.

Right.

It is the perfect day,

The perfect way to get into talking about- What is it?

How to be perfect.

We're going to teach y'all.

Oh my God,

I've needed to know for so long.

I've been trying so hard.

Just kidding.

We're going to address that.

Perfectionism,

It's an issue.

I really went round and round trying to start out this episode,

The intro,

The body,

The pieces,

All of it.

How can this be perfect?

And I just smush it enough.

And that's actually true.

I really spent way too much time on this and as luck would have it,

We had audio issues and we're doing it again.

So,

Hey everyone.

This is really going to be great because we've already done it once.

Round two.

Just kidding.

We're not perfect and we're going to have some hiccups.

Wait,

I thought we were teaching people how to be perfect.

Is that not?

I wrote the wrong note.

Oh,

Well.

In this episode,

We are hopeful to explore perfectionism.

How to spot it,

How you know you got it,

How to be with it.

And I'd love to say how to get rid of it,

But that would be the perfect scenario.

So why don't we just try to relax into this process?

See if we can make any progress in letting go of our perfectionism.

Such a good goal.

Such a healthy goal.

Let's start by getting our imperfections out there.

Annie,

Might you be so bold as to start us off?

Oh,

I'd love to.

I never knew perfectionism applied to me.

I never even considered it until a couple of years ago because I wasn't perfect.

So obviously,

Not my problem.

I looked this word up and thanks to Merriam-Webster,

The definition I got is a disposition to regard anything short of perfection as unacceptable.

Oh,

Unacceptable.

My favorite place to rest.

Oh,

It's so relaxing.

So as I started to understand a bigger sense of perfectionism,

In my mind,

It meant if someone is a perfectionist,

They have what I thought was the perfect body and the perfect job and the perfect bank account and the perfect wheels and whatever it is,

You know,

Perfect fashion accessories because I love me a fashionable closet.

And it really isn't anything to do with that.

It was more this frustration with myself and the feeling that I wasn't doing it right,

Whatever it was,

And that whatever thing that I was doing,

Whatever stage I was at in my life,

It just wasn't good enough.

As I started to learn from some more people this bigger idea of perfectionism,

I'm like,

Oh,

It's me just really not liking who I am and how I'm showing up for the world and thinking it's not good enough and having a ton of disdain for myself for that.

So what I've been learning and just working on is how debilitating this idea of perfectionism is and how it shuts me off from life.

Like I really kind of separate myself because I think I'm not maybe I won't try something new or if I am doing something and it's not good enough,

I'll stop doing it.

And how debilitating that is and how much it limits me.

It's just been a lot of learning on my part.

And it also makes sense in the sense of my procrastination.

I have normal procrastination like any human,

You know,

Maybe I don't want to clean my room or I don't feel like doing the laundry.

But these things that mean a lot to me and that I know that I'm capable of that I don't do maybe some project writing project I want to work on instead of getting started,

I will freeze this fear will paralyze me.

So nothing's happening externally,

But inside I'm like the gears are grinding high and I'm living in this place,

You know,

Whatever it is that I produce,

It's not going to be good enough or whoever future people are that will interact with it.

They're going to hate it.

I didn't realize how much perfectionism was at the crux of this procrastination in which I had just been kind of labeling myself lazy.

And then there was more internal punishment like,

Oh my god,

You're so lazy,

Just write this thing or just do this project or just know,

It's like,

Oh,

Underneath of it is this fear of not being perfect.

And so you don't even start.

So that's what perfectionism looks like.

And what I've been thinking about what about about you girls?

So helpful.

Well,

Not to get too meta here,

But this topic came up to me organically because I'm having such a hard time editing and producing our episodes.

I want to be helpful.

I want to be useful.

I have a lot to share.

But instead of trusting myself in my experience,

Instead,

I'm trying to imagine what you need,

What you want,

What it should look like,

How I can best satisfy you.

This happens with almost with most every episode that we've made so far.

And honestly,

This happens in almost every instance of my life.

But what it looks like and what Annie was talking about what this looks like is this analysis paralysis,

This infinity loop that cycles through this all or nothing thinking.

I am focusing on the flaws,

Which is the insatiable drive piece of that.

I forget self care and then I just burn brighter at both ends,

Which causes burnout.

That's going to get things done.

Then I feel stuck and overwhelmed.

Nothing is good enough.

I feel like a failure,

Which then leads into a depression.

But I'll feel a spark and I'll regain motivation to try perfection again.

And then the loop continues and I try again and again to get it more perfect,

Believing whether I am aware of that or not,

That this time I'll get it perfect.

And so that loop continues of attempting perfection before I've ever even asked myself,

Does perfection work?

This can keep me very busy and not getting much done,

Just like Annie was talking about to label myself lazy and then beat myself up and just continue again in the self destructive cycle.

And nothing is really getting done since perfection is unattainable.

I need to move towards more realistic goals.

And I'll talk about that more when we talk about tools.

Ella,

What do you think about perfectionism?

Man,

It's a really pertinent topic for me.

And I was just thinking that for me,

One of the main ways that perfectionism sort of manifests is with this multi item life spanning to do list that I always have.

I'm constantly living in fear of dropping the ball.

I'm constantly living like my worth is based on what I can cross off of my to do list rather than an inherent thing about being alive and being human.

One way that this gets especially paint because like,

If I feel okay,

And I'm crossing stuff off my to do list,

Then perfectionism is like kind of working for me.

Just crossing it off.

Look at me.

I'm so good by all the things I get done.

Get rid of perfectionism,

Cross it off the list and then move on to the next one.

But then what happens is I have a chronic illness.

And when I'm like feeling okay,

Mostly high energy,

Like a human being,

I can live in that narrative like it's working.

I mean,

The truth is,

It's never working,

But at those moments,

It feels more like it is.

And then I'll get hit with a flare.

The current one I've been having is this is week five,

I think when I get really physically ill and I'm in a lot of pain and frequently non functional to the point where my joints hurt so much,

I need to be in bed on a heating pad or have a migraine that lasts for two weeks.

I wish this was a joke.

I'm just saying it.

That's ridiculous.

But hard.

So dumb.

That's the dumbest and that's I'm not saying a swear word so dumb,

You can really add some nice stank to that word.

So I like it so much.

I have this dumb stuff happening and reach a perfectionism breaking point.

I just can't hold it all together anymore.

And instead of I don't know being kind to myself,

Shifting my expectations of myself to fit how I'm doing physically,

I just carry my insane perfectionistic to do list into a flare with me and like harder.

Get it done.

There's actually more to do now that you're saying.

Yeah.

And then it just like this dead horse.

It explodes.

And so I wish I didn't have to kind of get to this point.

I get so focused on not dropping any balls and the mental gymnastics it takes to keep everyone happy and not get it wrong and not disappoint people.

And I'm using up the precious energy that I have figure that out.

So freaking dysfunctional.

For me,

It's just like I wear myself out that way and hit a brick wall.

Thank God for the pain.

Thank God for those brick walls that we get to splatter our perfectionism again.

The only way I'll get into action turns out.

Boom.

What's that?

Like this whole action.

Oh,

Do we have some actionable tools we could talk about or I promise they don't have to be perfect,

But we do need to attempt to use them.

Annie.

Oh,

Yeah.

What's a tool?

What is a tool?

What is a tool?

My tool is very simple because as I mentioned,

I'm still just coming into the cusp of seeing how this has been playing out in my life.

So my tool is just recognizing and it's really nice because it's a gentle,

But it's surprisingly hard because I think that I had for a long time labeled perfectionism as not perfectionism,

But as me trying to make myself better.

That Punisher voice that I was talking about,

You should be doing it this way and it should be this.

I thought that was me advancing myself.

Works so well.

And so just taking a step back and labeling it as perfectionism and saying,

Oh,

That's really unrealistic and that there's no room for me to learn or grow.

It's either I'm all there 100% or I don't do it.

Just acknowledging that that's perfectionism gives me a chance to step back and grow.

So the example with how this tool is working in my life is doing this podcast with these girls is such a joyful creative pursuit and it's so fun because it's a vulnerable project,

But because there's three of us,

I get to experiment and explore in ways that maybe I wouldn't be able to do on my own.

And so Lindsay's mantra for us is just trying stuff for just trying stuff.

And I feel really confident doing that within this group structure.

And as we've been just trying stuff,

You know,

With social media and reaching out and being vulnerable in this really public way,

I realized how much I don't just try stuff with my own writing career and how totally my goal and desire as a writer is I want people to read the words that I write,

But I don't ever share the things that I write with people that know and love me,

Which is like really crazy.

The random people who buy the magazine or who come across strangers,

Strangers,

Strangers will do that will never interact with me.

They come across an article online,

But I don't post anything on my personal social media about the things that I do.

And I realized that in my head,

I had without even realizing come up with this story that once I have this byline or I've written for this place or I've published this book or I've won this award,

Then I will share stuff,

But not until then and how unrealistic that is and how I'm directly undermining my own goal of wanting people to read and connect because I think my current words don't measure up to my self-diagnosed idea of what people want to read,

What they might find interesting or what I think is quote good enough.

So in the interest of just trying stuff,

I started to recognize,

Oh,

That's perfectionism and it's never going to be good enough.

Any gain that I make,

I still will think in my head,

Oh,

Not yet.

I'll wait until then.

So I've just started sharing things that I'm writing and it's nice and it's humbling because this is actually exactly who I am right now.

And people who care about me,

They're interested in what I'm doing and they're not having these insane standards of what I should be.

Or if they do,

That's none of my business.

Annie,

I think you might have a website.

Oh,

Yeah.

Now is the time for you to plug yourself.

I would be so honored if you people that are listening would read the things that I write.

I have a website.

It's AnnieLCrofford.

Com and I'm also underscore Annie underscore Crawford on Instagram and Twitter and that's me just showing up.

Definitely check it out.

So cool.

That's me showing up to the best of my ability.

So that's it.

That's my tool is just recognizing it and then just trying stuff.

Hashtag just trying stuff.

Just trying stuff.

Just try it.

To build off of Annie's tool,

Because that's a big part of mine as well,

Is the recognize.

I think I'll get into that.

I just wanted to preface this a little bit and let you know how long I really tried to find the perfect tool and how I got my own self caught in the whole loop that I was telling you about just before this for several hours.

It must be perfect.

It's little by little here.

I promised myself that my attempt at expressing my tool would be enough and that gave me the space to attempt something because the whole time I'm attempting perfection,

It's telling me this isn't good enough.

My real life actual tool in this moment that I use is to stop,

Breathe deeply and my mantra right now is my best is good enough.

And that's true.

So relaxing.

Thank you.

I need that breathing.

If my best is good enough and my attempts are what make up my life,

Then the next right thing that I do will be good enough.

That can get me out of the analysis paralysis and the loop that I get caught in of nothing being good enough and then just what I talked about earlier.

It's so important to stop the cycle.

Breathing,

Always so important.

Step zero,

Breathe.

Breathing on the car ride over here,

Annie drove my car because I needed a moment and she walked me through a little breathing exercise.

So helpful.

Then to recognize that this is perfectionism,

To label it.

Whatever the situation is,

To label it,

Oh,

This is perfectionism.

Right now what I'm attempting to do,

I'm looking towards it being perfect,

Perfectionism and then to affirm the affirmation.

My best is good enough really opens up the space for me to attempt at doing something,

Just trying stuff and believing in myself that it will be good enough.

And then that gets me out of the procrastination or the I'm lazy,

I'm bad loop that just continues to go on and on.

If you're having a hard time recognizing some indicators of perfectionism can look like black and white thinking,

So all or nothing thinking,

It's all one way or all another way.

The inability to see positive attributes,

Everything's terrible,

I suck,

This is horrible,

This isn't good enough.

The inability to see middle ground,

Either end of the spectrum,

Which I oftentimes am.

The expectation of immediate gratification.

If I do this perfectly,

Then I'm going to be fill in the blank.

And then perfection focused,

Not mastery focused.

I think that's just the piece of Annie was talking about also.

Once I'm the champion,

Once I've taken over the whole internet,

Once I am an amazing novelist,

Then I shall show you that you may.

Then I'll let you in.

Then you can come in.

Then I am definitely hiding.

In my brain,

That's the in 15 pounds dot dot dot.

Once I am this appropriate body size,

Then I'll start living my life.

It's really just these little attempts,

The mastery,

Just doing our best in the moment because it takes so long anyway to master something,

Whether or not we can be perfect at it.

That's again,

With the question of is perfectionism really working is really important to turn my perspective towards healthy striving rather than perfectionism.

If I can breathe and recognize and label and then affirm that my best is good enough,

But if I can't,

If I'm just having a hard time,

Which can be,

And I can't even get into the tools or any of the things that I've set up for myself and suggested,

A great question is just what level of imperfection am I willing to tolerate?

None.

Just kidding.

Not helpful.

I know the answer.

None.

Right.

But really,

It's okay if the first answer is none and then taking it down a notch.

Would it be okay if I was a C student instead of an A student?

Would it be okay if I landed on getting inverted in the handstand for five seconds rather than just walking?

Anybody else could have another example and that might help our listeners.

It's just not so completely subjective.

But I am talking about myself here.

You listening at home,

Go ahead and fill in the blank of whatever it is that you're struggling with wanting it to be perfect and ask yourself,

Where are you willing to settle?

What is good enough?

Where is your best good enough?

Believe it or not.

I don't know.

I'm trying stuff.

Trying stuff.

Well,

And I find that when I let myself not be perfect,

Then I keep growing and I actually get better at the thing instead of just having to drop my hands and walk away completely or hating myself because I'm not perfect.

So there's this room to grow that I didn't have before.

And the amazing thing too is that then we give permission to other people to just be human.

Just try stuff.

And when we're all doing that together,

There's this thing that happens that's so much bigger and brighter and more important than whatever perfectionism is.

One person's mind.

Ella,

Do you have any tools?

Yes,

Gentle pony.

Of course I do.

I mean,

I'm just going to try some stuff.

I really liked how you were talking about healthy striving.

And in my mind,

The way that I kind of conceptualize that is that trying matters.

And a lot of the time when I'm caught in the kind of perfectionistic traps that you were describing of black and white,

All or nothing,

Only seeing the negative,

Then I think that I basically have the F-its.

The F-its.

Fluggenhoff-its.

Yeah.

It's just a long word.

I didn't want to have to say it.

It's nice to shorten it.

I just shortened it right down.

And I'm like,

Well,

Trying,

Whatever.

It doesn't count.

It doesn't matter.

Nobody cares.

It doesn't mean anything.

And so for me,

The trying matters thing is can I just,

Even if what trying looks like is putting down the obsession,

The perfectionism obsession just for one moment and then I pick it right back up again,

The putting it down always matters.

And the more times I can practice putting it down,

They're like these tiny,

Almost imperceptible steps up a mountain.

Altogether,

They get me to the top somehow.

That attitude of trying matters.

It's about the process,

Not the end result really helps me to just try it in this moment.

So what usually happens for me,

Like I was saying,

I crash into this wall that's got me splattered all over it.

Usually what happens with my body is that when I'm way overdoing it and trying to be perfect and cross stuff off the list,

I hit this wall.

Then sometimes I get to be grateful that I have this body that brings my life to a screeching halt by demanding my attention and care.

Who knows how much further I could go if I didn't have that parameter to work with.

So reality stops me.

I hit the wall and lo and behold,

It's actually a relief.

And similar to what Lindsay was saying about what am I willing to tolerate,

For me,

One helpful question to ask when I get caught in this loop is,

What am I unwilling to feel?

Or what perfectionism idea or task am I unwilling to surrender?

And for me,

Most of the time,

The not willing to let go of something is based in fear.

And when I can remember,

Oh,

I am believing fear right now,

If I'm sick,

And I think I need to be working,

What if I let go of that?

And oftentimes,

It makes me want to die slash vomit as a first response.

And then I'm like,

Oh,

Maybe if I just kind of loosen my death grip around what I'm supposed to be doing right now,

I could have some space to actually take care of myself.

And then what happens is I tap into something bigger.

And I remember that my kind of like small minded idea of what a perfect Ella looks like today might be kind of misguided.

And if there's some bigger container holding this whole messy thing,

Then maybe I could just let that hold the situation for me instead of worrying that if I don't cross everything off my to do list,

Then my life is going to fall apart and I'll drop all the balls and I won't fill in the blank.

And when I can do that,

It's such a relief,

Especially when my body is really hurting because it means that I can like,

Just take a deep breath and let go,

You know,

I wish I didn't have to crash into the wall and like spill my guts all over it to get there.

But it's what it's what happens.

It's what usually happens.

So I guess it'd be perfect without the wall.

Can I just keep my entrails this time?

What I was thinking when Ella was sharing was as I was thinking about perfectionism and I just get so wrapped up in myself and I realized that even as I was thinking about this topic,

I didn't think at all about how it might tie into having a relationship with a higher power or some kind of inner source or whatever it is,

Some kind of guiding love.

Because for the perfectionism is like me making me okay.

And so if I'm not the one doing it,

Do I trust that I'm okay?

And maybe the courage could come from trusting that I am safe in this like Ella was saying this bigger container,

Whatever it is.

And I didn't even think about that until just you talking.

So I'm like,

Well,

Well,

Well,

So great that we do this.

And I was having the same idea of more of like a bird's eye view.

The macro when I really like zoom out instead of being so into the micro,

It gives such this bigger picture that has really helped me to be with what is.

It's so great too,

Because when I think about what people are,

I like the most and feel the best around and stuff.

I have this idea in my own brain that being perfect equals people will love me.

Who likes perfect people?

They're so irritating.

No,

Like,

What even is that?

I just especially spiritually perfect people.

I'm like,

Can you just not?

I don't get it off me.

And then for myself,

I'm like,

But I need to be perfect.

It's like,

Dude,

Just know,

Like we don't get to have relationships with perfect people.

We're just all here trying stuff and it's so much easier to be friends with people who are humans.

Thanks human friends.

Yay.

I'm so glad we have all of our human friends.

And one day we're going to start doing these great little mini episodes where we show our messy human side.

Oh yeah.

Human side because we are not perfect and we are attempting spiritual tools.

We're going to hide them behind a paywall too.

So take that internet.

We have tantrums.

We have meltdowns.

We have so many moments and we thought it'd be fun to do mini episodes that kind of talk about them because we love talking about the solution.

Pretty unspiritual.

Yeah.

Pretty unspiritual.

Just kidding.

It's still spiritual.

Well,

This has been really enlightening and given me a lot to think about.

And last time I proposed that our topic for next week be perfectionist.

I thought we might be able to do it perfectly this time and how hilarious is it that our audio was destroyed and we actually did have to do it.

So I am all powerful and all controlling.

And because I said that.

Praise be.

Praise be to Pony.

Praise be to Lindsey Pony.

Ella,

Maybe you would like to tease.

Well,

I thought next time since we're getting really like weird and murky and uncomfortable here that we could talk about.

Depression.

Oh,

Sexy.

I start crying every time.

Yeah.

We're going to wear our bed sweaters.

We'll get prepped for the episode by listening to Elliott Smith,

The complete discography.

I won't wash my hair all week.

Oh my gosh.

I don't when I'm feeling great.

So hold on.

Bring your tissues.

Bring your tissues.

We're going to get into it.

So just talk about it.

Maybe we'll feel better.

Oh yeah.

Probably not because it's depression.

It's depression.

I can't wait.

It's going to be a great topic.

See you soon.

Bye,

Yo.

Reviews

Loved this. Really comforting to hear others struggling with this and their strategies. I'll definitely borrow the mantra "my best is good enough." Thank you!

Thank you. I busted up crying on my walk when the tool to just “recognize” it was mentioned. Can’t tell I have issues with perfectionism or anything...
You should revisit perfectionism again. I need more! ❤️

This was so amazing and helpful. I felt relief just listening! Thank youuu girrrls 💗

Oh boy! As a person who is stumbling along the road of life carrying a big old rock on her back called “perfectionism” I appreciate all of you for exposing and explaining what perfectionism “feels” like to you individually.

I do feel stuck, well, more like a wounded animal at this moment, as I am recognising my own perfectionism traits.....*exclaiming to self* I have a lot of inner work to tackle, this is day one - recognising - #justtryingstuff snd most importantly - my best is good enough! - thank you ladies

I’ve read and corrected this three times😤 however, I have left one typo (snd) as my best is good enough 🕊

This was so perfect!! I laughed quite a bit, much needed, really wish I could've been sitting in the room with you girls!! I'm going to look up your podcast now! :-)

Loved this one. Thank you beautiful ladies 💜 x

This exactly hit home, every word. I often hear myself saying, if only. If only I lost 20 lbs I would feel better about myself, if only I was smarter then I could go back to college. I've lived my whole life trying to be perfect and it's just not obtainable. The tool I use is to acknowledge but I am enough and to enjoy every little moment that life has to offer.

Love you ladies felt like this was me!! Can totally relate.