Chat With A Friend - How To Regulate Your Nervous System

Today's episode features How we can manage Burnout and regulate our Nervous system through simple yet powerful activities; it is brought to you by none other than an OT (Occupational Therapist) who has embraced Mindfulness, so listen as Ilona and I are mesmerized by what we are learning and hearing.

In this interview, we learn some signs of burnout and how it affects people, how Mindfulness can help bring balance and calmness in your life, and many practical tips on how to regulate your nervous system and, as a bonus (a little Biology lesson). Hope you learn as much as we did.

Thank you for listening and sharing.

Transcript

Hello,

Welcome back to chat with a friend.

Hello Ilona,

How are you doing?

Good,

How are you?

I'm so excited for today.

I'm so excited.

What wonders await us today Ilona?

Yes,

So today we have a really lovely lady as a guest who actually gracefully took time off out of her day.

So I would like to introduce a Shanine,

If I'm saying the right name correctly.

She is a lovely Occupational Therapist,

Has a lovely smile on her face this morning.

And we will dive into her story,

How she started her business as Occupational Therapist.

You can find her on social as mindfulOT.

And welcome Shanine.

Thank you very much.

Thanks very much for the introductions.

So yes,

My name is Shanine.

As Ilona said,

I am an Occupational Therapist by background.

And do you want me to just dive in?

Yeah,

Let's go for it.

There's no like,

Yeah,

Go for it.

What does it mean?

What is Occupational Therapy?

So an Occupational Therapist,

It's hard to describe it in a simple sentence because the role varies so much depending on where you're practicing.

So basically,

Like to the core,

An OT is someone who enables you to perform an occupation.

So the occupation can be anything between like picking up a glass to have a drink of water,

Getting changed,

Tending your workplace,

Like it's so varied.

So to a nutshell,

That is what an OT is.

And I like to describe it as if you have something,

Like your goal at the other side of a door,

The OT helps you to get through the door.

If you can't get through the door because of an illness or injury,

Then they help you make a new one.

Oh,

Wow.

Okay.

Okay.

And where do you find Occupational Therapists working usually?

Again,

So that's why it's hard to describe what an OT is,

Because they work in such varied places.

So they can work in schools,

In hospitals,

Hospices.

They can also work online as,

You know,

Coaches and mentors and that way they can work in such a varied background.

And actually,

Whenever you're at OT school,

Something that they encourage you to do is to find a new place that OTs can work.

So you have a,

They call it a role emerging placement.

And so you go and discover a new place,

A new setting.

So it would be good for an OT to be in.

Cool.

And which place did you find?

I went to a hospice.

Okay.

Back in Derry,

Where I'm from.

It was lovely.

It was actually really valuable.

I see.

Yeah.

And at the end of it,

Actually,

They had said that they'd find the role of the OT so necessary that they were looking at funding to get an OT in.

Oh,

Wow.

That's really nice.

It's just like,

Can I just backtrack?

It just sounds very broad.

It's one of those professions that's hard to define,

But at the same time,

Very useful,

But not much needed in today's world.

So if you track back to,

Let's say,

Five,

Seven years ago,

So where would we find you?

Where would we find Janine?

Okay.

So seven years ago,

I think I was still at university.

I think,

Yeah,

I've been working as an OT for about six years now.

And when I graduated,

I worked initially in a hospital in Belfast.

That brought me to work in a hospital in Singapore.

And then that brought me to come to England during the pandemic,

Again,

Where I practiced in a hospital and a couple of different settings.

So I worked in the acute role and then also in neurology,

So doing neuro rehab after strokes.

Oh,

Wow.

Yeah,

Then both of those roles,

Well,

All my hospital roles really led me to feeling burned out.

I repeated the cycle too many times,

Really,

Before I noticed that something needs to change here.

And last year,

That led me to ultimately leave the hospital.

And I started working at home,

Online,

As a disability assessor.

And during that time,

I really,

You know,

Honed in on stress management and tried to heal my own nervous system.

Through doing that,

I actually learned a lot of really valuable skills and tools.

And it led me to have a passion for it and wanted to share it with other people,

Which then led to me creating The Mindful OT.

And that's how I've gotten to where I am today.

That is an amazing story.

That is amazing.

Like,

So the transformation you've seen in yourself has fuelled your ambition to get it to as many people as possible.

And I resonate with that a lot because although our stories might be different,

I think I resonate with that.

Yeah,

So thank you for sharing that.

That's really amazing.

It's really amazing.

Like,

An occupational therapist,

I didn't realize that it was such a varied profession.

And what you can impact on people is really tangible,

I feel.

So,

Yeah.

And how did you.

.

.

You touched upon it.

Like,

You burnt out.

So how did you.

.

.

First question,

How did you notice you were burnt out?

How did you get awareness to it?

What happened?

So,

At the time,

I don't think I knew that I was burned out when it was initially happening.

But I just knew something wasn't right because I was so stressed,

So anxious,

So apprehensive all the time.

And it really was taking over my entire life.

Like,

After work,

It would take me a couple of hours to,

Like,

Come down to a normal level again after work.

I was getting recurrent sicknesses,

Illnesses,

All from work.

And it was just affecting me in every aspect.

Like,

I didn't want to have the motivation to do things like go into the gym or seeing friends and those things that I usually would enjoy.

Mm-hmm.

How did you decide that,

Sort of like an 18-year-old,

Actually,

I'm going to do.

.

.

When you finish your school,

Like,

How.

.

.

How did you decide to be like,

This is the area I feel I want to go in?

Because usually people who go into care,

They have really passion towards helping each other and wanting to improve things.

So just,

Like,

For me,

Just,

Like,

As well,

If you don't mind going back to that.

Yeah,

Of course.

I've always knew that I wanted to work with people.

I've just always known that from a young age.

I've always enjoyed being around people.

And through school,

I did,

Like,

Volunteering in different roles.

You know,

As you do at school age.

Yeah.

I just loved it.

And I just.

.

.

I didn't know exactly what it was I was going to do,

But I knew it was in that direction.

So initially at 18,

I had applied for nursing,

Which I didn't get into at the time,

Which was,

I think,

For me personally,

It was a blessing because I didn't even know what an OT was at that point.

It was just after I didn't get my acceptance,

I had to take stock.

I can reflect and see what it is that I want to do.

And that led me to look at all the different professions.

And for me,

OT made the most sense because for me,

It felt like the area that you get to work with people,

To what matters for them.

Yeah,

So that's what led me to do a bit more exploring down that way.

And I jumped into OT from there.

It's amazing.

That is amazing because.

.

.

Because what you did,

Yeah,

As Ilona mentioned,

At such a very young age,

To even think about it and understanding,

That's so inspirational for anyone who's probably listening,

Any stage of their life.

So this is what I think it just points to,

Like,

Yeah,

Just notice what your strengths are and start to understand it and grow in.

And yeah,

That's really great.

Is there anything else you wanted to share about the early stages of your.

.

.

Any other things which you probably didn't mention which you would like to share?

I don't know.

No,

Nothing really that comes to mind that I haven't shared.

No,

No,

That's fine.

If anything comes,

Just please feel free to share.

So I just wanted to take a step into.

.

.

So now I get the picture of occupational therapy.

Where did mindfulness come in?

Yeah,

So I've always enjoyed meditation,

Mindfulness throughout my career.

Although I remember the first introduction I had to mindfulness was during my time at university.

And we had some lecturers who were really passionate about it.

And you'd often find them walking through the main halls at university with their shoes off,

You know,

Being mindful,

Experiencing it all.

And I thought they were mad.

They would start off our lectures with a gong.

And me as an 18-year-old,

19-year-old,

I was so judgmental and I was like,

What are they doing?

This is an amazing university.

Which university?

Is it like Hogwarts or something?

Not so glamorous.

No,

It's University of Ulster.

And it was in Belfast that I was studying in Jordanstown.

And it's only really with,

I think,

Age and practicing it that I realized that they were on to something.

And I've adapted and out of it for years.

But last year,

Whenever I experienced like the recurrent burnouts,

That's whenever I dived deeper into it,

Started practicing it daily.

And that's whenever I really noticed the benefits of it.

Mm-hmm.

So like in my wheelhouse,

As they call it,

So like,

Yes,

So I'm also so keen on mindfulness and very curious on how you combine mindfulness into your occupational therapy.

And that's unique.

That's like not a lot of people think about that.

So how did you,

I probably know the answer,

But how did you manage to bring both together?

Yeah,

So I've always tried to bring it into my practice in the past.

And it's interesting because even whenever I worked in Singapore,

Majority of the patients spoke Mandarin or Malay or Tamil or,

You know,

Just different dialects.

And I think even for the person who speaks fluent English,

My accent is tricky.

So if somebody doesn't really understand English or doesn't speak a word of it,

Of course,

They didn't understand what I was saying.

But I would like to enjoy doing like group sessions where I would bring them all into a quiet space.

And what I would do first of all,

Is measure their blood pressure and heart rate and oxygen at the start of our mindfulness and meditation sessions and then measure them all again after.

And these are people who I know for sure,

They didn't fully understand even what I was saying,

But the reduction and their blood pressure and heart rate from that session was just incredible.

So I've always known the value of it and tried to bring it in where possible.

It's obviously being in a hospital is a very distressing experience anyway,

But it just shows how powerful it is.

Like you don't even need to have the language aspect of it to experience the benefits.

Wow,

That's so powerful.

That's amazing.

Just another question.

You might not have it to hand,

But can you give like an example of like just to make it really clear,

Like for people like the blood pressure drop from this to this just with practice.

Is that something you have or?

Oh,

I couldn't tell you the exact blood pressure readings.

I would be tasked in my memory,

But too much.

But I remember it was people who identified who were stressed.

Yeah.

So beforehand measuring the blood pressure and it was,

You know,

Within normal ranges,

But for quadrants of them.

So like pushing up to high and heart rate again,

Pushing up to the higher end for someone who's sat at rest,

You know,

We'd want it to be a bit more stable and there was like a marked reduction.

Like it wasn't just like a tiny bit where it's hard to notice.

It was like within the blood pressure would have dropped by like 20 BPM.

Oh,

Okay.

That's a lot.

Yeah,

It is.

Interesting.

Because like,

Yeah,

I was like.

.

.

Here,

Start meditating folks,

Everyone.

I can't wait to say,

Actually,

Noting this funny story back from London days.

I don't have a fear of everything,

But whenever I would go on the tube,

On the north line specifically,

Because it was deep,

Or like anything into deeper lines,

My heart rate would always like just exponentially,

Like really,

Really high.

And at that point I had like a fitbit.

So essentially I'm sitting in and my heart rate is like over a hundred.

I'm like in a tube,

I'm like,

I'm standing.

I'm just like,

I'm like,

What is happening?

And it's just like,

I literally had to learn how to control,

To bring it down because basically this is why I say like lifeless practices,

Because that was specific time when actually I knew that I had this.

It's just like,

I just really dislike being underground with so many people in a tube.

Mm-hmm.

So when you actually say this,

I was like,

Okay.

So that's not only me,

That actually like your tools actually can help you down to come down because I was just like,

At some point my friend at the time was like,

You know that you can bring this down and just kind of was like,

You know,

All the things which is like actually breathe and I just like looking at the way tinky and it's like,

So then like,

Okay,

95,

87.

I was like,

Oh,

80,

79.

Okay.

Oh,

Oh yeah.

Actually,

This feels gutsy.

Wow.

Yeah.

And I think sometimes like,

While technology is so amazing,

Like sometimes I can actually kind of create an anxious lip contact because I've had that before where I've been feeling anxious and looking at it,

My heart rate and thinking,

Oh,

That's too high.

And then I'm like,

Oh no,

What's wrong?

It's too high.

And then what happens is I get more stress and my heart rate can go further.

So I think this kind of goes to show regardless what you do that you are still learning because when you fall into that situation like you described,

You feel anxious like,

Oh,

But then you kind of figure out how to like regulate yourself.

It's even trickier because you kind of go for yourself.

It's like,

I should know this.

But at the end of the day,

It's like,

You're human.

Like,

Think that.

And it's just like.

Absolutely,

Yeah.

And the thing is like,

As long as we've got a nervous system,

So as long as we've got our buttons,

We're going to get anxious.

We're going to have stressful thoughts and negative thoughts coming in because it's all part and parcel.

So it's good to have the tools there because they're always going to be in need.

It's just good to have them in your back pocket and you can bring them with you.

Okay.

Yeah.

Nice segue into nervous system.

Yes.

I think.

So you said you work on nervous system regulation as one of your key precepts.

Can you like explain a little bit of what that means?

Yeah.

So as I say,

So with the nervous system,

There are different branches of it.

The part of the nervous system that I focus more on is the autonomic nervous system.

And with that,

It's ruled by your subconscious.

So it's all by the subconscious mind.

So we don't have any say in it,

Which is good in a way because it's a lot less for us to focus on.

And but what it's designed to do primarily is keep us alive and keep us safe.

Okay.

So when it was useful would be whenever we all lived on the in a safari field and we were going out to hunt or,

You know,

Find our food and trying to stay alive.

And what it did is whenever we are in a state of threat,

It will take energy from our brain from our digestive system and it'll put the energy into our jaw so that we can bite.

We've got a strong jaw into our arms so we can punch,

Right?

And to our legs so we can run and our heart rate to try and get all the adrenaline going.

So obviously really useful to have back then but with modern day and modern day living our world has changed so much.

We don't have the need for this anymore depending on where you are but majority of us don't have the need for that anymore.

But our nervous system haven't got the update.

All the modern world changes our nervous system hasn't changed.

That is so interesting.

Yeah,

As we know now that there's so much information accessible to us all the time.

Lots of brands are fighting to get your attention.

There's so much always going on that,

You know,

Of course it's going to trigger your nervous system because it's designed to get in front of you and it's designed that way.

So a lot of people and me included,

You know,

When you don't know what is happening.

It just feels like you're not in control like you're losing control that can be like a bit intense and like it's all getting on top of you.

Fascinating,

Fascinating because for me when I'm listening to that for me when I'm doing this podcast itself my jaw was a bit tight.

I'm not saying it's because of my autonomic dysregulation.

Did I say it right?

Autonomic,

Autonomic nervous system.

Yeah,

Autonomic nervous system.

But I clearly understand.

So now I'm like,

Wow,

Okay.

So the reason I feel tightness in the jaw,

The limbs are like it's because subconsciously this is not something which that's also a very interesting point which I noted is like it's not in our awareness.

So you cannot like just I'm hoping you cannot just make that happen from your conscious.

So like you cannot get your jaw clenching and affect your autonomic nervous system just by using your conscious mind,

Correct?

Yeah,

I mean the two can go hand in hand.

You can influence your nervous system by what you're doing consciously as well because if you notice that you're in a state if you notice that you're a bit tense like as you said when you noticed your jaw was tense then it could be a cue for you to say,

Okay I could be in my fight or flight.

What could I do to switch onto my rest and digest and then that's when you can bring out your tools.

Okay,

So question is like how do I know it's the that was my question.

How do I know it is the fight or flight or just a normal jaw pain?

Is there an easy way to understand that?

I think the easiest thing would be check in with how you feel.

Now,

Do you feel tense?

Do you feel anxious?

Are you stressed or are you completely relaxed?

And that would be probably your easiest indicator but just to note on that as well as like,

You know with things like jaw pain like a lot of people can experience jaw pain and it can be from long-term stress and long-term staying in your in your fight or flight but actually that's what could be the cause of it.

So just something that could be quite relevant for some people.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

This is really fascinating for me.

Thanks.

Yeah,

I'm kind of going to go into the same kind of root follow-up question is like what do you think is a small practice you wish more people would do like every day to kind of take,

You know not take stock but something to help them to like relax a little bit more or practice you would recommend to do that daily so they would just kind of bring them some just kind of away from all the stressors.

I know it's a broad question.

Yeah,

I think the easiest thing is your breath doing some breath work because it's something that's so accessible to us and you can do it literally anywhere at any time and it's just probably the easiest thing to pull out whenever you're stressed.

So if you notice that you're a bit tense or your heart rate is going just slowing down your breathing and focusing on it or you could do different techniques like the box breathing technique and What is the box?

So box breathing is if you can just imagine a box in front of you so you breathe in Oh,

I've got my computer screen Yeah,

And actually what's a good way of doing it as well is I know it's not quite a box,

But if you use your phone we usually always have it in our hand anyway,

Right?

So you can just go along that so you breathe in for the two seconds hold it for two seconds breathe out for two seconds pause for two seconds and then you see that makes the box I know it's probably not as easy for someone listening to this Yeah,

So I get it so it's more breathe in for two seconds looking at the top of your screen Yeah,

Traversing the top of your screen and then holding for two seconds as you come down the screen and then breathing out for two seconds as you traverse the bottom of the screen and then going up and then creating a rectangle Yeah,

Exactly It can be longer than two seconds as well it's just as long as both,

Quite similar and you're getting into a pattern the main thing is the pattern that you're getting into and slowing it down because that is actually a key that it can flip your nervous system from the fight-or-flight and to the rest and digest Very useful,

That's a very useful practice,

I think So when people want to find out more about you Chenyin,

What does she do,

Etc.

So could you tell us about the one thing you're currently working on it's like is do you have an event upcoming in or is something you would like people to if they want to learn more about you how they get,

What would be the best way to reach out to you?

Probably through my Instagram so if you're on Instagram if you go to at the mindful OT and then underscore you'll find me there and it's where I would put updates as to what I'm currently working on at the moment so that's probably the most current way and DMing me through there would be the fastest way I think to get in touch Got it And just a geek in me goes like so do you do private coaching one-on-one or is it something that you do the group setting for companies because I saw that you did an event at the NHS just not too long ago as well I was like Yeah,

So that was a workshop I went in to teach on nervous system and regulate your nervous system to a group of therapists so it was a very full circle moment because it was about a year after I'd left the hospital and I was going back to teach on stress management Okay The reason why I left it So yeah,

That was really really fun and I hope to continue with that but I'm also doing one-to-one coaching at the moment and then in the new year I'm looking towards a group coaching as well so if that's something that you know you might be interested in if people go on to my Instagram page that's where I'll be posting it when I have got it the dates set up for it Yeah Oh,

Thank you.

Thank you.

That's so fascinating.

Yes,

Please sign up.

This is amazing.

I mean from the work I've seen on Instagram it's a really really amazing job you're doing it's like you are helping therapists learn about mindful occupational therapy that's that itself is like wow so you are so the things you're doing working on and things just mentioned there was so useful so it's so it's not so esoteric or it's like not something which we talk so much and it's kind of really coming back to taking action and like it's practices which we can help regulate our nervous system watch out for signs of burnout and other things but yeah,

Is there anything else you think we missed out or you want to slightly highlight other than that?

Yeah,

Maybe just that there are lots of things you can do take yourself out of fight or flight in the moment.

So as we spoke about breath work and we've spoken about mindfulness as well and there's other things that you can do to try and stimulate your vagus nerves.

So your vagus nerve is the biggest part of your parasympathetic nervous system,

Which is your rest and digest.

So just to tie it all together by stimulating that then that can immediately have a relaxation effect and you can do that as we said by mindfulness by breath work.

You can do cold immersion therapy where you can if you don't have access to it.

Ilona you are doing cold immersion therapy like you are on a practice of it,

Right?

I am and now it's actually it's not optional practice.

So I'm just sorry backtrack like two weeks ago.

I was kind of like feeling quite like burned out stress.

I was just like,

Okay,

What can I do?

I was like,

Let's try cold showers and my shower now broke.

So essentially it doesn't stop some colds when I only go to like one.

So it came into effect and the entire thing almost flooded the entire bathroom.

Like so short.

But the special part it's kind of arrived at some point I think this week.

So then I gotta get until then it's like I'm like although the thing kind of goes up in the air where it's supposed to but essentially the water just stays on the aquarium.

So now I'm just like I don't have an option.

I just go in and it's just a cold shower.

So it's been now what like almost I think like over two weeks whenever I need to do like properly like wash my hair or something.

I just need to go to my sister's like can I use yours?

Yeah,

That's hard.

I don't know if I could wash my hair in cold water.

That is intense.

I know it's like yeah,

But no I agree to your point.

Like regardless if you have bracing thoughts like I tend to have the minute I stepped in a shower is like there's like mental dialogue going on like before,

You know,

It's like yeah,

Which is like the first few 10 seconds.

I can't explain but like your mind goes completely silent.

Like obviously like the sensation of cold water is like very powerful.

So it's an acquired taste this way.

Yeah,

If like getting into a cold shower is too daunting for someone then what you could do is put your hand in a bowl of ice water or dip your face into a bowl of ice water.

So it's not diving right in there to deepen but you're still getting the benefits from it.

Got it.

Okay,

Nikhil this is something you can try.

Because when I told him he looked at me was like what?

I have tried cold.

I yeah,

I think that's a good idea cold immersion therapy and yeah,

That's fascinating to see like how that affects your mental health because I think a lot of us need some sort of support in regulating our nervous system.

So anyway,

I think we are coming towards the end.

I think we've done for today.

So thank you for listening in everyone.

Hope to catch you soon one shout big shout out and thank you so much for joining us Shaneen and the mindful OT can find you can find her on Instagram.

Please reach out.

It's wonderful person.

You have to speak to.

Reviews

Very informative, interesting,intuitive pod cast thank you for taking the time out and sharing.
Best wishes Nikhil, Eleana and Seaneen. 🌟