Thought Mining Podcast: Episode 1

This is the first episode of the Thought Mining podcast. Derek Olson and Nathan Anderson introduce the concept of thought mining. They discuss the origin of their awareness of the term, their initial interpretations of what it means, and how it inspired the title of the podcast. Their conversation is generally informed by an excerpt of a reflection that Nathan wrote in the middle of the night when the concept of thought mining spontaneously surfaced in his mind after he woke up from a deep sleep.

Transcript

I mean,

It's cool to have that in there.

I mean,

We can't be perfect,

Right?

You're right Welcome to the first edition of the thought mining podcast.

The thought mining podcast is a brainchild of myself and my co-host Dr.

Nathan Anderson,

And we've been discussing for a while How we can find deeper truths in our life and we have a few different Methods we've been looking for or we've been using to try to find these deeper truths and we want to share them with you and hopefully we'll be able to plant a seed within the audience on a literal and metaphorical level So,

Let me hand it over to my co-host to explain maybe a little more with more clarity than I did.

Thanks Derek It's a pleasure to be on this journey with you This this idea for thought mining surfaced,

Well,

It was last spring Essentially,

But it never really took any shape until recently as we started exploring possibilities for Podcasts and topics and things that we could potentially discuss And I brought up this thought mining idea and it seemed to resonate a bit with you And let's we decided let's go ahead and give it a go and see what it's all about.

So This thought mining idea I'm gonna read a reflection that I had written on this Based on my interpretation of it when I woke up in the middle of the night one night.

That seems to be where sometimes Some of the most interesting thoughts arises after a deep slumber so March 16th 2023,

I'm in the habit of Writing thoughts down periodically when I wake up in the middle of the night,

Which is a great practice Do you mind just briefly describing how you fell upon that practice or how you discovered that practice?

Um,

I think it the origins of it probably date back to when I was in graduate school and I was given a task of completing an independent study and the idea for the independent study was Determined by My advisor at the time and myself I wasn't too sure What the topic would be or even how to proceed with it and and she had understood sort of what my interests were She said what about something like developing a reflective scholar?

Here's a book or two that might interest you related to that and I said This sounds great I'd be I'd be you know overjoyed to pursue something like that essentially because it seemed to line up really well with my interests and After I took on The project I didn't really know where to go with it.

And so I started getting in the habit of just writing down my thoughts as they arose that seemed related to that topic and it turned into a project that was that I felt proud of at the end of the semester and was able to turn in and it was like a series of 50 pages of Reflections that I had written that then became sort of synthesized into a paper and I Going back to your question of how I got in the habit of writing thoughts as they arose.

It's sort of Stemmed from that.

Mm-hmm.

It gave me confidence in writing down thoughts as they surfaced and being receptive to the inspiration to jot down Sort of thoughts that seem to randomly arise in your mind and I I've sort of carried that over into other areas of my life now and I Fairly regularly will jot down Seemingly random thoughts in my in my phone as they as they pop into my mind before we get back to reading The thoughts can I ask you one quick question?

Sure,

Do when you wake up in the night and let's say you're kind of You know as many of us we get a cascade of thoughts it might have to deal with the anxiety of tomorrow or maybe even You know something we did in the past I'll just randomly jump into our brain and like oh,

What'd you do that for type of thing and you get these sort of chatter going on in your brain Does writing it down help you?

Go back to sleep That's a good question I haven't really approached it in that type of a way with writing down thoughts of anticipations of what I'm going to do or What maybe I had done the previous day that I was sort of Ruminating on I sort of let those sometimes I get caught up in them I guess and I get attached to them and they sort of carry me away in these uncomfortable intellectual or emotional spaces But other times I'm able to sort of just let them Drift by and observe them as they as they flow past my consciousness the types of thoughts that I will write down are those that seem to just suddenly arise that I'm not really thinking about necessarily what I'm doing or any sort of task type of orientation or outcomes that I'm looking to Achieve or have my mind set on it's just sort of these things that kind of drift in through my consciousness that I that seem to surface out of nowhere almost and they resonate and Then I I used to not write that type of stuff down.

I just let it go and think I'll just reflect on it later right,

But Now I've gotten into the habit if like a sentence pops in my mind I write it down like I went for a run a couple days ago.

I was stretching under the bridge With the water kind of flowing under the ice and and something popped into my mind.

I'm like,

Oh That's good.

I'm gonna write that so I end up putting these into this journal.

That's called evolution of thought and It's a place for me to write down thoughts that are not Not really connected to any sort of other project.

I guess I'm working on at the time They might eventually translate into something other than or a project of some sort But it's kind of like origins of thoughts that seem unrelated to other things,

But seem important Right for me great.

Well,

I'd love to hear more of it.

I've read some of this already spoiler alert,

But I'm really Pleased that you're willing to share it and I'm excited to Dig into this All right.

Thanks So March 16th,

2023.

This is the entry here thought mining This is what I wrote in the middle of the night,

You know 2 a.

M.

Ish maybe Thought mining the extraction of meaningful insights from an array of thoughts Thought mining may be internal external or shared Internal thought mining is the extraction of meaningful insights from one's own array of thoughts Internal thought mining occurs within thoughts inside oneself External thought mining is the extraction of meaningful insights from an array of thoughts representing one or more individuals outside of oneself External thought mining occurs with others thoughts Outside of oneself,

You'll see some like redundancies duplications as I haven't said 2 o'clock in the morning It's kind of like flowing free-flowing.

That's typed in the notes on my phone.

Mm-hmm Want me to keep going Well,

Let's I think that there's already some stuff that we could talk about there So like the idea of thought mining is to an extent you're I mean,

Well,

I guess what to now analogize analogize analogize it analogize it to to mining right is You know if you're looking for gold in a mountain,

You've got 99% mountain and 1% gold,

You know,

It's a bit of a needle in a haystack situation and With thought mining it might be something similar in terms of like there's a lot of cascading thoughts happening and maybe some of them will seem irrelevant or You know,

I mean maybe Unhealthy to an extent like,

You know Maybe you'll get caught up thinking about some silly thing You said in front of the class in eighth grade or yeah,

And then you embarrassed yourself or whatever you know,

I mean some kind of irrelevancy will pop in here and there and so essentially,

You know,

You're you're You're looking for the needle in the haystack.

Maybe it's not that Rare,

You know to find something valuable in your unconscious as a neat needle in a haystack situation But essentially what I think what we're doing is we're letting Go of the need to control what's happening with our thoughts,

But instead Becoming an observer and seeing the stream passing by and Looking for value in the stream and looking to sort of snatch that a little bit Maybe a little bit of thought fishing or you know,

I don't get to change the name of the podcast.

No but you know what?

I mean like in terms of we're trying to find the gold in the mountain right and the mountain being the just cascade of Noise that's happening,

But maybe it's not noise.

Maybe there's signal in there and we're looking to maybe Make our Antennas so strong that it's always getting signal.

Is that yeah.

I mean that's a helpful interpretation I appreciate the way that you explain that I do feel Like that resonates with me quite a bit on the way that you explain that You know,

There are so many different thoughts that go through my mind throughout the day that seem Maybe they have value but they they seem Sort of moved to at times in terms of you know How much value they add really to my overall well-being and oftentimes they create Emotional or intellectual challenges for me that I probably don't need to endure right at that stage of my day Yep,

And so being in sort of that thought mining type of state of mind and and Allowing,

You know knowing that thoughts are continuously going through my mind I am sort of trying to position myself in a way that allows me to To take some of those thoughts out of there that are valuable And then kind of wrestle with those a little bit and try to extract deeper meaning out of those You know you you used gold mining as an an example another example that comes to mind that it's pretty closely related to it to What I do for a living is data mining There's you know,

There are so many different data elements out there and different data sets and I work in higher education assessment And there's there are tons of data points That were sort of swimming and constantly and and Trying to pick out the data elements or data points that are that are valuable is a Mining type of right size and there's a whole field of data mining.

I guess that yep You know,

It's kind of that makes me Sort of see parallels between that and thought mining.

It's like we have all these things that could potentially be valuable But but are they and right can we extract them in ways that that we can actually create some sort of value?

Yeah out of them and also I think with the what you're saying about could these things be potentially valuable Only I think maybe we ourselves can decide that to an extent,

Right?

So like I could maybe have a thought and I'll be like,

Well,

No one's gonna think that's a smart thought I just need to let that go and but you maybe I've externalized That it won't be accepted or isn't good,

But I'm actually Projecting that onto other people judging me in this fantasy,

Right?

So I'm like,

Oh that people will think that I'm wrong and and I you know I mean so like that kind of thing can creep in as well I think I might have lost my train of thought a little bit Anyways,

Please Yeah thinking about sort of how others are interpreting it and and What they might think if you actually express that in some sort of a way can right can be a barrier Well,

I tend to also like I will Play out this scenario these fictional scenarios already,

You know so if I think of a thought like maybe I feel like the you know Imaginary friends in my head or whatever have to accept it before I will say it to someone like you and make okay Well,

It seems like this is reasonable.

It seems like this is logical.

Let me double-check this idea Let me okay now I can present it to somebody and in the real world the real space or whatever so I guess there is like a filter to then You are your own filter to an extent Yeah,

No,

It does you're sort of filtering out what what you're comfortable Sharing.

I mean you're you're running what you have going through your mind through your own filter So that you can share things that you're comfortable sharing and maybe Hold back things that you're not comfortable sharing and you might not be comfortable sharing them because you feel Sort of threatened by the perceptions potential perception,

Right and maybe that's I'm not gonna say anybody's like wrong for doing that or I'm wrong for doing that.

I think it's very human nature to You know Fear the judgment of the group or the others or whatever and just think well,

You know,

This idea is too out there This is too kooky.

People are gonna think I'm wild or whatever.

So But we all really have these wild and kooky thoughts I mean to deny that truth would be just Lying,

Right?

So even the most like judgmental person with the seemingly narrowest Scope of what's acceptable and what's not in terms of behavior has these wild and kooky thoughts at 2 o'clock in the morning,

Too you know,

I mean so what can What can anybody do to I don't know to harness it to an extent,

Right?

So like sometimes maybe you'll hear a story where Somebody had a brilliant idea in the middle of the night lightbulb moment write it down and they go on to you know Change the whole world maybe Steve Jobs iPhone a phone.

That's a computer in your pocket.

Oh my god He wrote it down,

You know,

And that's probably how it happened and now all of our lives are like forever changed because he was He saw the value in something that was flowing through the stream and decided to really latch on to it and to trust himself And I think that's also part of it is like self trusting that I know this thing is valuable because I'm applying all the parameters of value that I think in my value system and I'm gonna present this to the outside world now because I'm confident in its value I'm not gonna suppress it or hide it inside of myself or whatever You know or just ignore it and let the stream go by or whatever and you know,

I think that the the challenge or the the idea of Doing that is not something that everybody finds appealing,

Right?

So it's not that like you're a bad person or something wrong with you If you're not thought mining and you're not waking up at 2 a.

M And you're not trying to find the deeper meanings in your unconsciousness But I do think it's a choice that people make and a lot of times it's based on you know It could be just who who we were born as as babies and grew into these types of adults and and now we're just Wanting to like find these deeper meanings.

It could be environmental,

You know,

It could be that we were raised by very Thoughtful and introspective people,

You know,

It could be it could be a number of things really Hopefully I'm adding something.

Yeah But I think yeah,

I'd like I'd like to hear more.

Let's move.

Okay.

I'll read a little bit more.

I think I stopped on Um External thought mining occurs with others thoughts outside of oneself And then the next and then it goes into shared thought mining is the extraction of meaningful insights between the thoughts of oneself And at least one other person so in in a way We're sort of going through this shared thought mining process right in the format of this podcast But also absolutely and also I think that maybe a lot of people are doing thought mining already and they're not really aware of it Or they just haven't you know,

I think you coined the term thought mining.

So Nathan Anderson,

Did you coin it?

I don't know,

You know,

I've never seen it in writing or anywhere else.

So I'm gonna give you credit for it I'm gonna credit dr.

Nathan Anderson with the term thought mining.

I think we could you know,

Put that in the dictionary at some point You know,

But I mean,

I think people probably have engaged or are engaging in thought mining,

You know,

Even You know,

Maybe over a beer at the local pub or they're doing it at work You know trying to solve a problem or you know with their spouse trying to imagine a future There's so many Ways that we're doing it basically using our imaginations and connecting our Imaginations with material world or with the real world that we live in or the quote-unquote real world,

You know that we live within so taking something from you know,

Maybe the ether and Turning it into a material object,

You know,

Which I think is you know,

I mean The coolest part about being alive is the creative element.

Whatever it is.

I mean,

You know,

Like whether it's There's creativity and fixing your car,

You know,

I mean absolutely there's creativity in that there's creativity in you know Putting down new flooring tiles as you did the other weekend Because there's always gonna be the element of like,

Oh,

I thought it was gonna be this way But then it ended up being this way so I got it now I have to pivot and I have to figure out how to do this and you know,

I mean this Creativity is problem-solving too,

Right and maybe thought mining weirdly enough is problem-solving if we Want to see it that way.

Yeah,

It sure could be to an extent We'll kind of see where it goes,

You know sort of what the concept evolves into and and I think we need to strengthen our thought mining muscles a lot of us and I think you're very strong at it because of your Especially background and also probably just how you naturally are I can tell that you're very strong at you know,

Looking for deeper meanings and finding Value in the noise value in the clutter and things like that and Maybe through your professional life.

You've even strengthened that muscle,

You know to a large extent so I think that you know,

I think there's a lot of value that we can bring just Discussing and talking about this topic cool.

Yeah I mean the term itself if it hasn't been used before and this is sort of the the first time it's being explained in this way That's pretty cool.

But you know,

The practices themselves have been going on for you know for ages,

Right?

This is just bringing sort of a language to it.

I suppose.

Yep,

And maybe even just a modern take on it because yeah There's probably you know Euclid ease from ancient Greece or you know,

I'm just making people up but you know I'm sure if you dig into Aristotle or something like that he probably says something kind of like that,

You know,

But it's just a lot of that stuff is impenetrable to people that aren't maybe studying that at a PhD or master's level because it's ancient Greek and there's so many Interpretations and it's not presented in a user-friendly format So I think that you know Maybe these are themes that we're not discussing in pop culture that have been important pop culture themes in history But we would just wouldn't have the awareness of it because we're not Studying the humanities at a high level,

You know for the most part,

You know in high school or college Right,

Right Yeah So maybe we're just actually arriving on the same truths as Euclid or whatever,

You know Yeah I'm sure there's stuff all over the place that speaking to this essence Universality of humans,

You know,

We can be in this entirely different structure Maybe and also be exactly in the same predicament.

Mm-hmm,

You know social structure completely different but our brain is Completely the same,

You know,

Right and maybe the language of this thought mining will resonate with some and they'll be able to Sort of maybe embed that type of practice into their lives in ways that are appropriate for their well-being When maybe they wouldn't have been exposed or maybe wouldn't have understood or or been exposed to that types of or that type of Practice,

You know right through other language,

I guess I think of differentiated instruction a lot and in terms of how One instructional strategy or set of content will resonate with one type of learner But it doesn't resonate with another type of learner.

So then you kind of repackage that content in different language or deliver it through a different instructional strategy and then it all of a sudden does resonate with them and So I'm such a big believer in that because I've seen in my own life how the things have been presented to me Time and time again that just haven't clicked and then right then it's Presented to me using different language or in a different way and then all of a sudden hey,

I I get what that means now Yeah,

I feel like this may be just being a maybe is just another example of that.

Yep Yeah,

I think so and just thinking about Teaching and pedagogy in general like one thing I've noticed about because I had teachers that I didn't resonate with in the past and I Try to think about what it was about their style that wasn't Fitting for me and I think that I kind of pinpointed one thing.

I don't like I don't know if it's everything but One thing I've noticed about certain instructors and I want to call out a certain like coding instructors,

It's trying to teach me coding at one point in my life and I feel that some people instruct there's some people that are in instructing positions It's like they're trying to show off how much they know to an extent I know this and I know that you know,

I mean,

But When you're taking a person through a learning process,

It's like they need to go They need to take the baby steps that you took,

You know,

I mean,

So like a lot of times We didn't learn this stuff overnight.

Why are we trying to teach it overnight?

Mm-hmm I mean it took me five years to learn this Particular like thing and here I am trying to jam it in someone's brain and then being like,

Why don't you get it?

It's like well Think about me like I mean for me like even with something like Videography and photography which I'm I consider myself to be pretty good at or expert at I mean for the first couple of years there were certain fundamental terms that I was just kind of like Let's just kind of pretending that I had a grasp of mm-hmm because it was convenient at the time to Want to be an expert and not want to be Real about where my expertise Limits lie,

You know and I think there's can be like ego involved in that or just not wanting to feel like You know Maybe you want to hang with the big boys to an extent and you don't want to be seen as like the little boy You know or the little kid or whatever the learner the student you want to be the you want to be already Arrived.

Mm-hmm,

Right and so sometimes when you already want to be arrived you want to just skip all the steps I don't need all that fundamental stuff.

I just want to get to the high-level stuff,

You know Because that's where I belong and you may you may belong there But you just maybe now isn't the time and you know,

You might need to you know Get back to basics a little bit get back to the seeds that we're planting and that's anyway I don't know.

I feel like I also yes,

I go off on roads and then I just look around.

I'm like,

Where am I?

I mean,

It's a lot like physical fitness,

You know Let's say bench press a hundred pounds and you want to bench press 200 pounds You can't skip the steps of right increasing your physical strength Just by putting on plates that equal 200 pounds and then you're all of a sudden thinking you're going to be able to lift them When right in reality your max is 100 pounds Yeah,

Maybe you've got like the machine that kind of like helps you a little and then you're just like lying to yourself Even though you're like you're doing it But you know,

You're not really doing it because you know really doing it means you'd have no machine You'd have nobody holding it for you or whatever So you just like have the need to accomplish the number so much like I need to get to 200 so then you just sort of Lie to yourself to an extent about how you got there or what,

You know I think especially with physical fitness not to go on a rant about physical fitness,

But My feeling is a lot of people over train themselves to injury,

You know And because they're trying to get to six-pack in six weeks,

You know,

And it's like hey just Take six years,

You know I mean just take the slow road because then you can just have that for the rest of your life because people can get Fit in six weeks,

But it's only gonna last six weeks usually because they went to such extremes to get there That is an unsustainable,

Right?

You know,

I don't know if that actually has anything to do with thought mining I mean,

It's an it's a great insight and I think it's this is a good example of demonstrating how even in Conversation a dialogue we can go into all of these different directions,

Right?

And it's kind of like an outward sort of Manifestation of the thoughts that go through our mind that's absolutely Connected and kind of go all over and all these different places,

Right?

So our role is to kind of figure out which of those sort of mean something and we can we take something from yep So trying to get to I mean,

I don't know that we're how much time we've been going but So I'm wondering do we want to get through the whole essay or do we want to I don't know.

Maybe we cut it Do you think and then we could even revisit it?

Because I'm just thinking about like how I honestly feel like we have said something in this half hour.

Yeah,

And You know if we go too long then we're just gonna get people bored anyway,

So yeah I know you kind of go into one of those long-form episodes,

Which I I found myself like drawn to Sometimes but I don't know that.

I don't know that this is it really depends on the subject matter.

So like for instance Like say Joe Rogan podcast is three hours long 99% of the time I don't want to listen to three hours of that shit stuff But sometimes they'll have like a guy who's like about ancient Egypt,

You know Egypt ologist or something like that and then I'll be like Okay.

Well,

I'm in for this because I just want to know about the Egypt ology,

You know,

That's interesting to me.

But So maybe if someone really wants to know about thought mining is gonna be fascinating.

I wish this was longer Yeah,

You know half hour is not enough.

You need three hours of this.

Well,

That would be cool Then we'll have we'll make more episodes.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

Absolutely So I guess like in in conclusion,

Right so let's kind of I guess wrap it up Thought mining the name of our podcast the the way of life that we're I don't know We're advocating right?

So we're saying hey to the listener to the viewer you can Mine your own thoughts and there's value in there.

Is that true for every single person?

Do you think?

Um,

Gosh the every single person statement I was like throws me for a loop,

You know I'm like not sure if I can be convinced that that every single person is gonna glean value from it or not but You know,

I think there are certain people right who sure will I think the difference between someone who won't and someone who will is Probably willingness in terms of if you hear what we're talking about and you say wow like,

You know Trying to Tame my thoughts or trying to find me.

You can't tame your thoughts probably,

You know,

But trying to let's say wrestle a little bit of more control than you know is Let's say common is valuable and worth my time You know and if you have that willingness to do that,

You're gonna find the value But if you're gonna be someone who's like,

Ah,

I'd rather watch TV,

You know The news I want to externalize I want to I don't want to go inside Mm-hmm,

Then you're probably just going to kind of put up a wall and not get any value out of it But you know,

I think it's a choice really.

Yeah,

That makes a lot of sense I think willingness is a big part of it And it makes me think too that you can overdo it in the same type of a way that you're talking about Overdoing physical exercise.

And so if you just find yourself constantly sort of like wrestling with with and in your own mind Right,

You know people you hear that being referred to as a navel gazing and having a negative comment negative connotation with that.

Yeah I feel like I do that probably to a pretty great extent but I've Found ways I think to to do it in with health within healthy parameters,

I guess,

Right?

And I think also like with the whole navel gazing thing.

It's kind of like The Criticism would be that you must really think your thoughts are so important or you think you're you know I mean,

So you're self-obsessed or whatever and you know,

I think that there obviously could be like a point where you Thought mine to excess right to where that would be a valid criticism But I don't know.

I mean in the modern world who has time to do that You know,

I mean like who has time to sit around and navel gaze really,

You know I mean I could see how because I think that term kind of came out of the 90s sort of like in the Music type of thing or writing from that era first-person writing from that era but the 90s just seemed like a real navel gazing time because it just without the Internet and you know without cell phones it just Seemed like you know,

I don't want to say I Mean,

It's just a different time period really there was just seemingly more opportunity for silence more opportunity for Reflection and things like that,

You know,

Whereas today there's always a Distractive option at the tip of your fingers where you know TV wasn't that good back in the day,

You know It's like you don't want to sit and watch days of our lives.

You'd probably go rather do something outside,

You know,

And we were kids so Why would you know,

I mean if but if we had every entertainment option I mean if someone brought brought us a tablet so that you can watch Transformers you watch He-Man you can watch Ninja Turtles You can watch everything any any episode all at once,

You know,

We'd probably like I'll do that Yeah,

I'm not gonna go play football or play catch.

I'm gonna go watch every episode of my favorite show,

Right?

You know,

Right,

So it's just different times I guess but so part of the thing about I think with thought mining is it's Something you have to carve out awareness for intentionally.

You can't Think you're gonna accidentally get slapped with some thought mining or you're gonna accidentally fall I mean you did I guess but most of us don't fall into you know a hole of Thought on a you know regular on a regular schedule Because it's so easy to get busy and externalize,

You know,

It's so easy to say Well,

I don't want to deal with these uncomfortable thoughts or these feelings.

I'm just gonna go find some work to do There's always work to do right?

Right.

So right.

That's I think a challenge I guess of and and also maybe That's a challenge that someone watching this would say.

Oh,

I don't have time to sit around and do stare at my belly button Yeah,

Right.

So Sometimes it just happens like even just kind of going through your day It might happen on my way back to my office after this I might be walking back and something all of a sudden just pops in mind,

You know That seems to seems to hit seems to resonate well What's what's wonderful about what you're saying?

Is that you you're leaving a space for something surprising.

Mm-hmm I think maybe a lot of us don't even have we were just Everything's organized in these sort of ways and we're not we don't have an empty shelf Sitting there for like what might come today,

You know that we're not expecting.

Yeah,

That's a great visual I love the empty shelf Divisional might have a lot of full shelves that you're carrying around to with important information,

But keeping that empty shelf right open For that something else that's worthwhile to mm-hmm kind of make its way into there is yeah pretty special Great.

Well,

Thanks for thanks for coming and thanks for sharing and thanks for being a part of this podcast with me I think it's as um,

We got we got lots of places to go.

Yeah,

We do There's this thought that sort of surfaced as we were talking through this as a way maybe to sort of summarize This and I don't know.

Let me know what you think Of course,

We can play with it and wordsmith it and totally scratch it all together if we want But um,

You know as thought miners We paid deliberate attention to the thoughts and perspectives of ourselves and others To help make sense of the world around us.

Mm-hmm.

I love that.

I love the deliberate attention Because when I hear deliberate attention,

I hear that like for me to give you deliberate attention.

For instance,

I need to I Need to be intentional about that in terms of level deliberate,

Right?

So I need to like get into my own head and say Derek shut shut up and listen to Nathan and In and listen for each word and for its meaning and instead because sometimes like Even in this conversation,

You'll say something and that makes me think of something and then I go down this road,

Whereas I really need to stay on your road not jump off onto my own road,

You know,

Because Until I've gotten to them the exact meaning that you're trying to share Until I feel like I really understand that I really don't understand that so sometimes we think well that reminds me of this and so because it reminds you of that you are then gonna Like say take this thing that you said and then lump it over here with that thing It reminds you of right whereas it's not that thing.

Mm-hmm.

That's just a bias this is this and that is that stay here and Focus on that,

You know,

And don't worry about this You got to let this go sometimes and that might be the stream too.

So maybe one thing I'm stumbling on here is Co-thought mining to an extent in terms of like as you're talking if you say something that's gonna resonate with me I need to stay on your experience of that thing at least until I fully Understand it rather than well,

Let me share my experience with a similar thing That's kind of like that but not really on all levels,

You know,

Yeah,

There's probably a place for both of those approaches,

Right?

Yeah,

And hopefully I and I think with me that's probably what you'll get right because as much as I Say,

I'm gonna give the deliberate intention.

I also have you know,

Like the rabbit brain a little bit so You know,

I'll probably be oh very intentional and then very unintentional and very intentional But right,

You know,

It is what it is.

Try to strengthen the muscle,

I guess.

Yeah the thought mining muscle It's not mining muscle.

Yeah,

I'm working on mine as well.

So yeah Yeah,

Well,

I think mine got stronger just in this conversation Likewise man and mine did as well and hopefully that's the same for everyone out there in in the audience and please Stick with us in the future.

I think we've got exciting directions we can go and Yeah,

Well just we'll be back yeah,

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Thank you.

Thank you.

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Goodbye.

Yeah