Tiny Traumas With Meg Arroll

We’re thrilled to welcome Dr. Meg Arroll to the show. Dr. Arroll is a psychologist, scientist, and the brilliant author of "Tiny Traumas: When You Don’t Know What’s Wrong but Nothing Feels Quite Right." In our chat, she dives deep into the concept of "tiny traumas" — those small, often overlooked experiences that accumulate over time and can significantly impact our mental and physical health.

Transcript

Hi,

I'm Michelle Chalfant,

Psychotherapist,

Holistic life coach,

And human,

Just like you,

Learning to navigate life's challenges.

With over 25 years experience,

I teach people how to get healthy using the adult chair model.

The adult chair model is where simple psychology meets grounded spirituality,

And it teaches us how to become healthy adults.

From anxiety and depression to codependency and relationship issues,

You can use the adult chair for just about anything.

Each week,

I share practical tips,

Tools,

And advice from myself and a wide range of experts on how to get unstuck,

How to live authentically,

And how to truly love yourself,

All while sitting in your adult chair.

Welcome to the adult chair podcast.

Hello,

Everybody,

And welcome to the adult chair podcast,

Where we talk all about how to become a conscious,

Healthy adult.

Today we are talking all about trauma,

But not just any trauma.

We're talking about tiny traumas.

So what do I mean by that?

And this is what has intrigued me.

This is what I was excited to have.

Today on the show,

We have Dr.

Meg Errol.

I'm excited to have her on because she's written this book called Tiny Traumas.

And in my own journey,

I realized I never had big,

Giant,

Big traumas in my life,

But something in my life didn't feel quite right.

And when I learned many,

Many years ago,

Wow,

I've experienced a lot of small traumas or small T traumas,

As they call them.

The more I learned about trauma,

The more I realized everybody experiences small T traumas.

Not everybody is going to have maybe a big,

Giant car accident or a traumatic death of someone close or a car accident.

Not everybody experiences those,

But everybody experiences small T traumas.

They are so common with every human.

Now some of us experience more than others,

But everybody experiences these.

That's why I wanted to have her on so we can talk all about what is a tiny trauma?

What does your life look like if you've experienced a lot of tiny traumas and you don't know?

In other words,

You haven't worked on them.

So we also got into today and how do we work on them?

Like if I have experienced this small T trauma,

What are some things I can start doing today to help me to overcome these things and start to heal my life?

So I'm going to get to the show in a moment.

Let me just introduce you to Dr.

Meg Errol.

She's a psychologist,

Scientist,

And author with a special focus on behavioral psychology related to health and wellness.

Also invisible and misunderstood illness and every day trauma.

She's got a lot of focuses here,

All amazing.

She also is the author of seven books on topics ranging from chronic fatigue to emotional eating.

She is a wealth of information.

I'm delighted to have her on the show where we dive deep into tiny traumas.

So here we go with Dr.

Meg Errol.

So welcome to the adult share podcast,

Dr.

Meg Errol.

Hello,

Michelle.

I'm so happy to be here with you.

I'm so happy to be here with you too.

We have,

We've been trying to make this happen for,

It's been two months,

We're finally here together.

Thank God.

Third time lucky.

Third time lucky.

The internet gods are cooperating with us and yeah,

I'm happy to have you with us today.

So we were just chatting,

You've got quite a few books,

But the newest book,

Tiny traumas when you don't know what's wrong,

But nothing feels quite right.

I'm intrigued.

So tell us about this,

The newest book that you have out,

Tiny traumas when you don't know what's wrong,

But nothing feels quite right.

Yeah.

Tell us about that a little bit.

What's this book about?

Yeah.

So I noticed a pattern in my practice where clients would come in and one of the very first things they would say is,

I don't know why I'm here Meg,

Like I don't,

And they'd always be inching out of the door.

And so I thought this is really important.

This is a really interesting place to start.

And one of the things that would often be shared would be,

Well,

You know what?

I haven't experienced anything terrible in my life,

Nothing really bad.

You know,

There was no,

There's no abuse.

I didn't,

I haven't been subject to a violent attack,

Nothing like that.

So I don't understand why I'm not happy.

I don't understand why I'm not thriving.

I don't understand why I don't feel okay.

And so when exploring with my clients,

I remembered a paper I had read years before.

So I started my career in academia in the area of health psychology in the UK.

We have a specific area in health psychology,

Also coaching psychology,

Interestingly.

And I was working on a module called the psychology of physical illnesses.

And within that module,

And it was a third year elective,

So the students could choose it.

So many of the students themselves had these conditions,

And oftentimes conditions that were sort of medically unexplained and quite confusing,

But there was a lot of stigmatization around these and lack of validation,

Those sorts of things.

And we did quite a lot of research about that at the time.

But it was fascinating because one paper that I found on the topic of IBS,

On Irritable Bowel Syndrome,

Which was one of my research topics,

And I do,

I have another book on that too.

They looked at patients over time,

And they compared those individuals who had experienced big T traumas.

So the type of traumas that my clients were talking about,

You know,

Death of a parent early in life,

Or the experience of a natural disaster,

Those sorts of things that we term as big T,

So the capital T in the trauma.

And we know quite a lot about that type of trauma,

That it can,

Not always,

But it can have quite a significant impact both on mental and physical health.

But what was so fascinating about this paper is that the researchers compared a group of people who had experienced big T trauma with a group of people who had experienced low-grade cumulative type traumas.

So perhaps growing up in a household that was not abusive,

But you felt like you were the odd one out,

It may have been a bit cold,

Or just being quite misattuned with the other people in your household,

Or say,

Low grades,

You know,

Bullying at school.

So maybe not the very obvious physical type bullying,

But you know,

Kind of nasty frenemies as it were,

Who would put you down all the time and make you feel very much lesser than.

And what was found in this paper,

Which was completely counter to my own prediction as an academic and researcher,

I thought,

Well,

You know,

Both types of trauma will have an impact,

But of course the big T trauma is going to have a more significant impact,

Of course it is.

And what the researchers found was the opposite,

That those individuals who had experienced cumulative trauma over time actually had worse health outcomes,

Both with their physical symptoms of IBS,

But also with mental health parameters like anxiety and depression.

And I was just like,

You know what,

These two things are connected.

And like you,

Michelle,

I think anyone who works in the therapeutic world,

We like to connect the dots.

I was like,

No,

This needs a bit more exploration to connect these dots together.

Wow.

I love this.

You know,

It's interesting.

I remember over the years working with people with irritable bowel,

And if they go to,

They'd go to the doctor and the doctor would put them on this med,

Right?

And what they,

What a lot of people found was that when they went on an antidepressant or an anti-anxiety instead,

It actually improved the irritable bowel,

Which to me says it's more of a mental health issue,

A,

Again,

A trauma versus just my physical body is not operating the way that it should.

Do you find that these physical issues,

Did you find this in any of your research,

That the physical issues that we have are related to some sort of small T trauma,

Emotional issue from our past,

Wounding,

All of the kinds of things.

What did you find in your research or did you not,

Have you researched that I should say?

So first of all,

Though,

The mind and the body,

They're not separate entities.

They are interconnected,

Interrelated,

And we know that from a huge amount of research,

But also from some other sort of,

You know,

Well,

Wellbeing type approaches that really reconnect the mind and body.

When we're thinking about healthcare systems at the moment,

The vast majority of healthcare systems are based on the medical model of health and illness.

So looking for say a result on a blood test to identify a type of pathology to then be able to treat it often,

As you say,

With medication,

All those types of very,

As they say,

Medicalized type treatments.

But we do know that many types of talking therapy,

Psychological treatments,

Mindfulness,

Breathing exercises can actually help what traditionally may have been seen as physical conditions.

So let's take IBS,

For example.

So when I was preparing that lecture,

I was part of a research team called the Chronic Illness Research Team at a university in London,

And we did do research on this topic.

So we looked at the relationship between stigma,

The amount of stigma someone had experienced to do with that particular condition,

Because IBS is still quite a stigmatized condition.

Some people would say that it's,

You know,

Not real or that it's in people's minds or that it's not serious enough to really warrant any healthcare services,

And I would of course disagree with that.

But we also look at lack of validation from medical professionals,

And we found that when someone experiences stigma around their health presentations and illness cause,

And they are not validated in their lived experience,

They had both an impact,

There was both an impact on their physical symptoms.

So the severity of the IBS symptoms had actually increased,

As well as an impact on mental health correlates,

So depression,

Anxiety,

Those sorts of things.

So those actually,

They're psychological components,

But more so those are social components.

And I work within the biopsychosocial model,

Where the biological,

The physiological is of course still important.

And we must sort of pay attention to that.

But the psychological interacts with that,

But our social environment,

How we treat others and how we are treated impacts our health status as well.

And not only mental health status,

But physical health status too.

I love this.

So in looking at some of your other books,

You talk about menopause in one of your books,

You talk about the bladder,

Which is something I'd love to talk to you a little bit more about,

And chronic fatigue.

Do you find in these books,

I've not read these books of yours,

Again,

Is there a common theme?

What is it?

And absolutely,

The common theme are conditions that have lacked medical consensus often,

That have lacked really the research attention and also healthcare attention that is really warranted to support people,

But that do attract stigma.

And also,

These are in general,

Invisible illnesses.

So someone may not know that you're unwell.

And again,

I work with so many clients,

And it's very difficult because even when you're feeling unwell,

You're going to put your best face on.

Most of us don't want other people to know what we're experiencing,

If we're experiencing quite embarrassing symptoms.

So the symptoms with IBS,

They're embarrassing.

The symptoms with regard to the bladder,

They are embarrassing and very,

Very,

Very intrusive.

So they impact people's lives in such a way that we have a measure called illness intrusiveness.

And something like urinary incontinence,

Or IBS,

Has a much higher level of illness intrusiveness than perhaps something that is visible,

But not as embarrassing.

So these things,

In terms of our wellbeing and quality of life,

Are absolutely vital to start to talk about.

So my goal is,

You know,

Let's talk about it.

Everyone has to go to the bathroom,

Seriously,

And worked in the UK with different organizations to try and really break down some of those taboos.

And until very recently,

The menopause was very taboo.

We didn't really talk about it.

And when we did,

Or when we saw healthcare for medical professionals,

Oftentimes,

Women really fobbed off,

Like,

You know what,

It's what all women go through.

It's a natural process.

And one of the reasons I was so interested in the menopause is I saw so many clients that came to me with very high levels of anxiety and very low mood.

And we would go through what was happening with them.

And there was no obvious sort of external cause to that.

We just sort of check in.

And actually,

Around that age,

And I would say,

Well,

You know,

Let's just explore this because anxiety is one of the very first symptoms in the perimenopause.

And the lack of discussion around this were impacting women because they didn't know that.

And honestly,

Michelle,

The amount of women I've spoken to,

And they said,

I thought I was going crazy,

Because I didn't feel like me anymore.

I just didn't.

And the cognitive symptoms as well,

The forgetfulness.

I had many clients who said,

I think I might have early onset dementia,

Because it wasn't talked about that those cognitive type issues,

Again,

Classic of the perimenopause.

So it's a lot of it is around that education piece for me.

Let's talk about,

And you gave some really great examples earlier,

When we talk about traumas,

I found in my own practice of almost 20 years,

How many times I would look at someone and think,

These are traumas that you're sharing,

And they had no idea.

And again,

I think most of us know the big T traumas,

Like I've had a car accident,

Rape,

My house burned down,

Divorce.

These are big traumas.

But I love this book.

I love the title of your book,

Because I don't think the general public,

If you're not in a therapist,

Right?

We know that tiny traumas are happening all the time with people.

Can you give us some examples,

Some more examples of someone's listening right now,

Like,

Well,

I didn't have any trauma,

You know,

But would it be something like,

Sometimes this can even be traumatic,

Growing up in a household where I don't feel loved.

Maybe I don't get hugs,

Kisses.

Maybe I don't hear I love you.

Even that can lead a child to wonder,

Am I loved?

Like even,

Could that even be as simple as a little tiny trauma?

Yes,

Indeed.

And the thing about not just smaller,

Tiny T traumas,

And we're talking about tiny traumas,

We're talking about a lowercase T here.

We are not saying they are insignificant.

We are saying that they build up over time,

And it's a way to distinguish between those big T traumas.

And again,

What we know from research and practice in terms of the big T traumas,

What they do is they disrupt our sense of safety in the world.

And with tiny traumas,

They disrupt our sense of self in the world.

So they are related,

But they are qualitatively different.

And so indeed,

Growing up in a household where there's not that sense of unconditional love is incredibly important.

So there may be love,

But it could be on conditions.

So I had one client who,

And again,

I'm sure,

Michelle,

You hear this quite a bit too,

Oftentimes I hear from clients,

But my parents love me.

They did love me.

All the time.

All the time.

So your reaction?

Well,

We're not here to judge anyone's parents,

But I really want to help you uncover what's going on today.

Yeah,

All the time,

Yes.

Exactly.

And that's where we start.

There's not judgment in this room.

This is a safe space and that allows an exhale often.

And so I'll give you one example of one client.

So very sort of on the surface,

Very,

Very successful woman.

She was within the corporate world.

She had a very demanding job.

She had a loving husband,

A really nice family.

She was very much on the way to burnout because of her maladaptive perfectionistic tendencies.

So that was this sort of presentation,

Maladaptive,

Tongue twister,

Maladaptive perfectionism.

And I use the word maladaptive because oftentimes people can want to strive towards excellence.

And it is about understanding that there are differences between always having everything having to be perfect with being selective about,

You know what,

I'm going to select this part of my life or this part of my work,

And I'm really going to strive for that.

But I'm going to let go of some of that perfectionism in other areas so that I don't burn myself out.

That's a slight aside.

But this particular client.

So when we explore some of her life course,

And this is the first stage of my approach,

Which is awareness.

Again,

I had the comment,

But my parents love me.

But let's just talk about some of the things that occurred.

So her parents really wanted to motivate her.

And so whenever she had a grade from school that was less than an A,

They would post that in the kitchen.

So every single morning,

She would see that maybe she wasn't doing good enough.

Surrounded by a form of conditional love and support.

But they wanted her to really excel.

And we could talk about why that was,

But let's focus on the client.

And so over time,

She really developed that sense that if I don't get those A's,

If I'm not perfect,

Absolutely perfect,

Then perhaps I'm unlovable.

Perhaps I'm not going to be loved.

And that carried on through life.

And that allowed her in a way to excel at school,

And then at university,

And then at work.

But she couldn't let go of that in other areas of her life.

And so,

As I say,

She was almost on her knees with exhaustion.

She was so burnt out.

And it was so important to really work through that tiny trauma that was cumulative,

Was every day over time,

And how that impacts her.

And again,

This is such an important thing about trauma,

Both big T and tiny T.

It is about the impact on the individual.

It is not about making a judgment on the sort of objective size,

As it were.

Hmm.

I love this.

And you know,

And everyone outside of your client would probably look at her and think,

Wow,

You're so successful.

You've got it all.

I mean,

This is wonderful.

Your parents motivated you,

How wonderful.

No,

Not true.

It brought up a memory for me.

I had a guy that was a client,

And his parents were at every single game,

Every game.

He was a big soccer player.

But his parents were at every game when he was in high school and in middle school.

But they didn't speak about love in their house.

He didn't get a lot of affection.

He didn't speak about love,

But they showed up for him.

They didn't really talk about emotions.

It was more surface conversation.

He had a car when he was 16.

They had money,

Not like gobs of money.

But he grew up wondering if he was wanted.

You know,

He said,

I just never really felt all that wanted.

And I said,

Wow,

This is fascinating.

And I remember tracing it back to,

I remember asking what it was like growing up.

He said,

Well,

My parents love me,

But there was no emotional connection.

It reminds me of childhood emotional neglect.

There just wasn't that connection on an emotional level,

Which I remember talking to him.

And I said,

This was traumatic for you,

Not having that.

And I don't want to say that it was bad or wrong or judge parents.

Everyone's doing the best they can always.

And I said,

Wow,

This was traumatic.

So we did some really deep work around that.

But then he said,

Oh,

I get it.

They couldn't do it.

They had their own issues going on.

But anyway,

That's a whole other story.

But yeah,

This is really good stuff.

How did the tiny traumas,

What else do you,

How do they impact us in our adult lives?

I love the title of your book,

When you don't know what's wrong,

But nothing feels quite right.

You know,

I can think of so many people that would say a sentence like that or a statement like that.

Yeah,

Something's not quite right.

I'm not exactly depressed.

Sometimes I'm anxious or maybe I am a little depressed.

I just don't understand what's going on.

So tell me more about that.

Like,

It's like we've got to look under the hood to see what's going on,

Right?

Absolutely.

And so one of another reason to write the book was to really collate the types of presentations that I see and most therapists do see.

So,

As you say,

It could be that type of high functioning anxiety.

So people manage to meet their activities of daily living is what we call them.

So they can work,

They can look after their kids,

They can even perhaps have some interaction with their friends and stuff.

But the anxiety under the surface is constant and it is so draining.

It's so draining of quality of life and of vitality.

So that was one.

And again,

Exactly like you said,

That type of not depression per se,

But emotional blunting.

So I don't feel depressed,

But I just don't feel anything at all anymore.

So those sorts of things.

Then other types of presentations I see,

Emotional eating is a really common one.

So reaching for that source of comfort within foods that are sort of very industrialized now to really trigger that reward center in the brain,

Those sorts of things.

But more than that,

Some behavioral issues like problems with sleep are very,

Very common in terms of what I see in my own clinic.

What we would really,

At the moment,

Sort of characterize is suboptimal mental health.

So the way,

Bear in mind,

Psychology is a very new discipline.

We are young and we are still evolving.

So at the moment,

To meet the criteria for something like major depressive disorder or generalized anxiety disorder,

You have to tick a lot of boxes and you have to be very severe,

Actually.

And one of those things that is on most of these diagnostic criteria is that not being able to carry out your activities of daily living.

The vast majority of people will do that because we have to.

And there is such a drive to still be able to pay our mortgage,

To still take our kids to school,

All of those things.

So this is the vast majority of people who are experiencing psychological distress.

It is a very small proportion of people who will meet those psychiatric conditions,

All the criteria within that.

And the huge difficulty then is how do you access health care?

Because if you're not meeting that diagnostic label,

When you go to see your GP or primary care physician,

They kind of don't know what to do.

They don't know what to do.

And that is why therapists and independent practitioners like ourselves,

Psychologists,

Coaches,

These are the people we see.

But in the mainstream,

We don't really talk about it.

It's still quite unknown.

So that was a real driver to say collate these different types of presentations,

Even something like imposter syndrome.

I was just fascinated by because so many clients who perhaps were experiencing some high function anxiety as well,

Because these are not mutually exclusive types of presentations.

They often co or comorbid in that way.

But I was like,

There has to be a reason why so many people experience imposter syndrome.

And research does say around 70 percent of all people will experience it at some point in their lives.

And it was,

Yeah,

Seven zero.

But it is more prevalent in women and marginalized groups.

And I was like,

You know what,

Michelle,

That doesn't make sense to me.

OK,

So why would these groups experience that fear of being found out like they're not good enough in their work and all these things?

I don't think that's an innate characteristic.

I do not believe that at all.

And again,

I came across some research that showed these groups are more likely to be subject to successive microaggressions at work.

So if you're in the workplace and someone is undermining you every day,

Five days a week.

Is it not likely that you're going to start to doubt yourself?

Yeah,

Yeah,

For sure.

Connecting the dots.

That's my passion.

Connecting the dots with these things.

I think about someone that's surviving,

But not thriving.

You know,

That's that middle of the road.

Yeah,

They don't have major depressive disorder,

But they're also not thriving.

It's like that middle that so many of us fall right into.

I mean,

I'm thinking about all my tiny traumas,

Like,

Wow,

I had a whole bunch of these things.

So when it comes to physical ailments or things that might be showing up,

This is what you would say,

The irritable bowel,

The chronic fatigue,

That all of these kinds of things that you also start seeing on a physical level that would show up.

For many people,

In terms of looking at the etiology,

The cause of these conditions,

The jury is still out.

But what I would say is that let's do the work that we can do,

That we really can do.

And we can do some of the talking therapy work to start to unravel some of these things.

In terms of the most frequent presentation I see is anxiety.

It really is.

And this is before the pandemic.

Everyone likes to,

Sorry,

That's such a generalization,

Not everyone.

Many commentators in the media like to,

You know,

Plug the rise in psychological distress on the pandemic.

That the huge increase of anxiety and depression was happening pre-pandemic.

It was.

And you saw that.

I saw that.

Now,

Of course,

The pandemic was a catalyst,

But it was happening already.

It was happening already.

I'm going to speak for myself,

But also I had clients like this as well.

I think a lot of people that are walking around with anxiety,

They don't even know they have anxiety.

I remember I was with one of my mentors and at the time my therapist many years ago.

And she said to me,

When are we going to work with your anxiety?

And I said,

I don't have anxiety.

She said,

Are you kidding me?

I could feel your energy all the way across the room.

And I said,

Seriously.

And then the more,

Again,

I worked with regulating my nervous system,

The more I worked with grounding and becoming more present moment,

All of these things.

All of a sudden I became aware of the fact that I've got an engine running inside of me that just doesn't ever turn off.

It just goes,

Goes,

Goes.

So I'm realizing or I'm wondering,

Actually,

From your perspective,

Because I've had many clients like this as well.

Did you find that as well,

That so many of us are walking around and we pride ourselves on knocking it all out,

Getting it all done?

My cousin will laugh at me and go,

Wow,

You busted it out today.

I'm like,

Yeah,

I've got to watch that engine because I can flip a switch and that engine goes again.

And I can go full steam ahead and go a million miles an hour.

That's unhealthy.

And now I consciously know that's not healthy.

That's going to trigger my nervous system into my old pattern.

How many of us like,

My gosh,

I'm thinking about 70% of us that have experienced or will experience imposter syndrome.

What about anxiety?

It just seems like because of these things,

And I'm holding up my cell phone and the internet,

That anxiety,

I mean,

Gosh,

I remember reading 10 years ago that anxiety was at an all time high.

And the number one,

The number one thing Googled on Google,

The number one search for on Google was how do I heal my anxiety?

It was all around anxiety.

What did you find in your research with this?

And how do we link it to our tiny traumas?

So I like to separate stress or rather the stress response from anxiety or anxious thought patterns,

Because the reason I do that is we can use different techniques to tackle both.

But they,

Of course,

Are interrelated.

One of the reasons the stress response and anxiety is so prevalent is that we have an innate stress response that we need to retain.

So it has kept us safe.

It's allowed us to engage in that fight or flight or fight,

Fight or freeze system so that we could evolve over time.

It has been so successful,

The stress response,

That it hasn't really changed since early human.

So when that stress response is activated,

As it would in early humans,

Say if there was a predator,

Say if there was other humans from a different clan that were trying to attack,

It has this physiological cascade of manifestations so that you can survive.

So your glucose will be pumping so that you can run or fight.

Your eyes will absolutely be razor focused on the threat.

And it was so successful that we still have that.

But now that stressor,

That trigger as it were,

Overused word,

But trigger,

May be your boss.

You know,

It may be that person who is undermining your work and really engaging in a microaggression.

So those types of activators of the stress response,

There are just so many,

Many more.

And as you say on the phone,

We have this stress activator in the palm of our hands and most people's vast majority of waking hours.

So to be able to separate out the stress response.

So is there a obvious threat in the environment that is triggering physiological types of symptoms?

And again,

Michelle,

I was just like you.

I had a huge amount of chronic stress and anxious thought patterns that related to it.

I didn't even know it.

And I'm a psychologist.

Do you know what I mean?

It's like I until I started doing this work and doing it with myself as well,

You know,

That that raised heartbeat,

That constantly feeling the inability to switch off because it's not just the physiological,

There are psychological and emotional types of symptoms,

Too.

But if there is not if there is not an obvious threat in the environment,

Say our boss,

You know,

Demanding a very difficult report or someone at work,

You know,

Putting us down,

Say it's the fear of that.

And that's where the anxious thought patterns go in.

So I'm at home.

There's not a stressor.

There's not a stress activator in my immediate environment.

But I'm worried about it.

I'm thinking about it.

So those anxious thought patterns,

What they do,

Though,

Is they actually in themselves,

They activate that stress response.

So that means we never get a chance to go back to homeostasis.

So the stress response is supposed to be there for acute events.

So say in the modern day,

Say we're driving and we need to swerve out of the way of another car that will save our lives.

And after that,

Our heart will be beating.

It'll take us a little while to sort of come down from that.

But on a daily basis,

There are so many little triggers that we are constantly activated,

Both by the triggers in the environment,

But our thought patterns around that.

Because the societies tell us that we need to be successful.

We need to achieve all these things.

We need to do everything,

Michelle.

We have to do everything in one lifetime.

It's impossible.

It's impossible.

So to deal with the stress response,

Because it's a physiological response.

Those are the types of more mind body type exercises.

So breathing exercises.

Most of us breathe through our chest.

We have forgotten how to breathe through our diaphragm.

By breathing through the diaphragm,

We activate the parasympathetic nervous system,

Which is the counterarm to that stress response.

Very important.

Once we can get to grips with that,

To be able to then challenge some of those anxious thought patterns that are driving that stress response.

And so it is useful to separate the two and to think,

OK,

I'm going to take this two pronged attack.

I'm going to actually look at perhaps some experiences in my past in my daily life that are tiny traumas that have impacted me.

And then think about is that leading to anxious thought patterns?

I'm worried that that's going to happen again.

Have I become hypervigilant to criticism?

Have I come hypervigilant to not really believe it in myself and feeling that I can be loved?

Those types of things.

So it's really about becoming aware and slowing ourselves down enough to pause and say,

Hold on a second.

So if I'm if I'm wondering,

Curious if I have these tiny traumas,

Slowing down,

Getting curious before we hop on Netflix,

Before we go reach for something to eat,

Before we do all of these things,

Slow down.

You know,

I like doing a phone fast.

I take my phone and I just put it away for the day.

You know,

Now,

Of course,

I have a company,

So it's hard for me to do that.

But on the weekends,

I love doing that.

And I got to tell you,

The first hour or so,

My anxiety is high,

Even though it's a Saturday.

Even though it's a Saturday,

I'm like,

No,

I refuse.

I am not doing it.

I am not doing it.

No one's going to slack me.

No one's texting.

No one's emailing.

I can do this.

And then after those two hours or so,

It's like,

Oh,

This feels really nice.

Like now it feels like I want more than two hours.

Yeah,

I just want to keep separating self.

Yeah,

There's a lot going on psychologically as far as treatment goes.

Yes,

Therapy.

Yes,

Coaching,

All of these beautiful things.

But I'm curious,

You know,

In your book,

Do you have a list of all the possible tiny traumas for someone that wants to grab your book?

There are many examples within the book.

It's important that we all have our own unique constellation of tiny traumas and intertwined for many people.

There are major life events,

Like you said,

Initially,

Divorce,

Those sorts of things.

Even Christmas is listed in the major life events of Holmes and Rainey because it is quite stressful and can be very traumatic.

But also some big T traumas.

So it's important to think more about personalized psychological medicine and treatment rather than a one size fits all.

Let's move away from the one size fits all.

And so I did develop this three stage approach,

The AAA approach,

Excuse me.

And that first A is the awareness.

So as you say,

Pausing,

First of all,

Recognizing tiny traumas do have an impact on individuals and that impact can be incredibly significant.

But then exploring what are your tiny traumas?

How have they interacted with your life?

But then moving on to that point of acceptance and what I found in my work.

And Michelle,

I'd be interested to know if you find this too,

That acceptance piece can be the hardest piece for us.

Yes,

And the biggest transformation happens.

It's like there's a resistance.

And then when we own it and say,

OK,

I'm going to accept this now,

There's a release.

But getting there is a oof.

I'm not going to say that.

I don't want to buy that.

I don't want to own that.

No,

Thank you.

I don't want to accept that.

But yeah.

And that's so important what you said there,

Because I almost had another A of accountability because that ties in with acceptance.

It's so,

So important because oftentimes it really is not our fault.

It's not our fault that we've experienced these things,

But we're the only ones that can do anything about it.

That's the thing.

So that accountability is so important.

But awareness and acceptance,

They're big,

They're huge,

But they're not quite enough.

We do need to move into action.

And that's where coaching and coaching psychology is so useful because it is solution focused and it's future focused.

What can we do now?

What can I do actually in my daily life?

So I have in each chapter,

Which is each a presentation that we've talked about,

I have kind of like to do right away.

I want clients.

I want to feel a bit better straight away.

But with the awareness,

Actually,

There is longer term action work to do also that can be can be harder.

But to think,

You know what,

I'm going to invest in myself.

I'm going to do this for me and not even just future me,

Present me.

I want to do this for myself.

I'm going to prioritize me now because when we do that,

When we can move from that just surviving to thriving to flourishing and,

You know what,

Improving quality of life so that we can show up for us and we can show up for other people too.

I love that.

I love books that actually walk you through how to start your healing and transformation process in the now.

I don't want to read something and then go,

Wait,

What am I supposed to do?

So thank you for writing a book like this.

It's so important for all of us.

Anything else that you want to share with us about tiny traumas?

Anything else that I might have missed and didn't ask you?

I am really heartened to see how psychological research,

Therapy,

Psychology as a discipline is evolving.

As I say,

It's it's really it's new.

It's it's you know,

It's in its infancy.

So PTSD,

Post-traumatic stress disorder,

Was only recognized in 1980.

That's within my lifetime.

It was.

Yeah.

Doesn't that surprise you?

Nineteen eighty it was entered in the DSM,

Which is a diagnostic sort of manual for psychiatrists and psychologists.

And it was really contentious.

Many people on the board did not want to enter it.

So for a long time,

People who had experienced the big T,

They were stigmatized.

They were ignored.

They were fogged off.

They lacked validation.

We have come on so far because it's hard for us to understand that that even happens.

It's like what you really can't believe that we didn't recognize that.

And now we do.

So that has now been assimilated into our understanding of mental health.

Now is time for tiny trauma.

It's time to actually recognize this cumulative type trauma and to reduce the stigma around it as this evolution in our understanding of mental health and trauma and have a more nuanced conversation.

And we can do that.

We really can do that.

It is a bit of a zeitgeist change,

But I'm very excited to be in the discussion.

Yeah,

I'm so excited to have this book out there because I think it's very,

Very,

Very much needed because it's not talked about enough.

So thank you for your work in the world.

Reviews

Another gem, Michelle. Thank you.

Wow! I have been in different therapies since 1991. Well, I learned a LOT! Time well spent! Thank you very much!