How To Be Fully Human With Dr. Margot McKinnon

On today’s episode, I’m joined by Dr. Margot McKinnon. We dive into her fascinating journey involving spiritual encounters and near-death experiences, and how these shaped her groundbreaking Dominance Theory.

Transcript

Hello everybody and welcome to the AdultShare podcast.

I am Michelle Chalfant,

Happy to be here with you on yet another extremely hot day in July here in North Carolina.

It is hot.

It is like August hot since June.

So this weather has been,

And I know I'm watching it all over the United States,

The heat here,

Oh my goodness,

Kind of crazy.

Hope you all are doing well today and this week.

I have a really exciting show for you today.

I have on the show Dr.

Margo McKinnon.

She has had quite a life.

This is someone that is or has been not just connected with God or source or universe,

Whatever you'd like to call it,

But someone that actually hears from God directly and she talks about this and today's show.

She's also had two near-death experiences and also because she's able to hear spirit,

She was able to write,

This is her second book actually,

A book called The Dominance Theory.

It is such a cool book.

It's a guide to elevating your five dimensions of self.

We get into it.

We really get into it the whole second half of the podcast.

What this dominance theory is,

Her life story is so unique and so interesting and I love,

Love,

Love this book.

I think everybody needs to get this book.

It's a phenomenal book on how to elevate yourself as a human.

So I'm really excited for you to the show and without further ado,

Here we go with Dr.

Margo McKinnon.

So welcome to the Adult Share Podcast,

Dr.

Margo McKinnon.

Thank you so much,

Michelle.

I am thrilled to have you on.

I was just sharing with you that I had heard you one night in the middle of the night when I was wide awake and I listened and you popped up on YouTube and I thought,

I literally got out of bed that morning and I went straight to my computer.

I bought your book immediately and I wanted to buy like five copies,

No joke.

And I emailed you directly and I said,

Please will you be on my show,

Which I never do.

I said,

I normally find people that I like or people email in and I send it to my girls and then they'll email an invite.

But I was like,

I must have you on as soon as possible.

Love it.

Thank you.

It's like,

I love her.

So thank you for being on.

So why don't we,

I know we're going to talk about so many different things today.

Specifically,

We're going to hit the dominance theory,

Right?

Tell us a little bit about who you are and how you got to be where you are today.

Do you have a very interesting life story?

Well,

Thank you for thinking it's interesting.

And first of all,

Thank you for Well,

Thank you for thinking it's interesting.

And first of all,

Thank you for having the courage,

Michelle,

To come on here,

Create a platform because we need these platforms to develop a community so that there's this really,

Really,

I think you and I are on the same page of creating a safe space for people to ponder the mysteries of life,

Ponder the mysteries of like the bigger world,

But also the things that happened to them in their life.

And,

And I really,

Really cherish that you do that.

That's why I popped on and said,

Sure,

I'll be on your podcast so that we can have a really fun conversation today.

My story is that I was one of those little kids,

You know,

That could see spirits and I had visions into the future.

I could hear voices,

I would wake up in the night and see people around my bed.

I didn't always know who they were.

Like I was just a little kid.

And I have also this very powerful,

Commanding,

But compassionate voice that speaks to me,

Not,

Not all day long,

But if I ask a question,

It'll come down and give me an answer.

And it sounds male to me,

But I know that it's an energy.

So if you hear me saying he,

I really don't know if it's he,

She,

It don't know.

But I'm,

If you hear me saying he,

It's that.

I've also come to realize,

Or at least say to myself,

I think it's actually God talking to me.

It's that big universal force.

And,

And I'm using the word God.

Sometimes you'll hear me say universe,

Creator,

Oneness,

Source.

I'll use all of them,

But for some reason in the last few weeks,

I've been back to the word God.

So I'm using this word God.

And I think God comes down and talk to me.

And I think,

Why do I think it's God?

Because this powerful voice comes down because it wants everybody to have the most beautiful,

Beautiful human experience.

And it comes down and shares with me how we can do that.

And that's why I think it's God,

Because this compassionate,

But commanding voice is all about all of us as a universal.

Now,

The first time I ever heard that voice though,

Was when I was four years old.

My family was all in the basement watching television.

And I was like a little mum from the time I was a little kid.

I just loved my dolls.

And I went upstairs and I had a little doll.

My favorite was,

I shouldn't say favorite,

But he was,

My favorite doll was named Michael.

And I came up and I had a little crib that was just a miniature.

It looked like a real baby's crib,

Only it was a miniature.

And I was putting my doll in there and I was pulling up his covers.

And I heard,

And it was pure darkness.

And I heard,

You are to be a teacher.

So it was that,

Do you see here,

It was this very deep voice.

That's why I say he,

But I really don't know.

So don't hold me to that.

Okay.

I'm just,

I just hear what I hear.

So this voice comes in over time.

And as a child,

I had visions into the future,

Which I didn't know they were visions.

I until,

You know,

Later on in my life when they came into being,

But I have to say for some of you who are parents out there,

It's really,

You know,

I had parents who were very supportive of my spiritual insights and my spiritual experiences.

And they were very,

Very,

They,

They treated it,

I guess,

As a normal,

Natural part of who I am as a person,

Never made me feel badly about it.

In fact,

My mom was so great,

But she used to come into my room at night and say,

Do they go in your cupboard?

Look under your bed.

Do they get behind your curtain?

And so she'd do a go sleep,

A sweep before I went to bed at night and I'd get into my bed and I'd say,

But they come when everybody's sleeping.

But anyway,

So that's how I started out in my life.

And I guess my biggest question,

I'm going to share my biggest questions because I bet many of you have the same questions.

Why do I have this?

Why?

And you know what my biggest question is,

What am I supposed to do with it?

Why was I given it?

And am I kind of living up to what God wants me to do?

I believe that we have a life review.

I believe we go over back into unconditional love.

And when I go over there and I meet God,

I want God to say,

Thank you.

It makes me cry a little bit,

Everybody,

Because it's just so it's just how I live my life.

I want God to say,

Thank you,

Margo.

You've done everything I asked.

And so I listened.

So Michelle asked me,

Can you be on?

And I just heard this.

Yes.

Say yes to her.

Get on that show.

And I just immediately boom.

Okay.

So I really listened to that voice.

I became a high school English teacher for 25 years.

But then I came up with this.

And I went off to the University of Oxford to do my PhD.

That's why I'm doctor.

I'm not a medical doctor.

I'm a PhD doctor.

I did my PhD in if we were going to bring the concept of spirituality into our public education system,

What how would we do it?

Because we had a religion model where children would learn through a religions perspective.

Well,

In our school system,

I think it's the same in the US is that's been removed.

And I'm saying we never replaced it with something else to help children understand where do I go after I die?

Who am I?

Do I have a meaning and purpose?

Is there a spiritual dimension beyond the physical?

In our system,

We don't have a space for them to contemplate and to ponder those big essential questions of life.

I always say I never needed math,

Really,

Like passed about grade three or four,

I just needed to know how to add,

Subtract,

Multiply,

Divide and get percentage so I could get their report cards.

But nobody was ever going to ask Margo McKinnon to build a bridge across a river.

No,

I didn't need math of that high level.

But we all die.

That that is a given that is something universal.

So how do we ponder that?

How do we?

How do we get comfortable with that?

How do we create meaning in our lives?

And I wanted to say just to hook back in so that Michelle and I can have this conversation is I love the title of Michelle's podcast,

The adult chair.

Many years ago,

I heard this quote,

And it said,

People say we were we are all a child of God.

And this person said,

Well,

I want to be an adult of God.

And that's why I like the title of your podcast,

Michelle.

So there that's sort of the arc in my simplest form.

Thank you.

Love it.

I relate so much to you.

I had similar hearing voices when I was a little girl,

Not understanding what they were.

But like you,

Even though I was raised Catholic going to Catholic school,

My parents never said I was crazy or shunned me like they were very open to everything.

Thank goodness,

Because I was accepted for who I was.

So tell us about I know you've had is it one or two near death experiences?

Well,

I call myself as having two.

Yeah.

But you know,

Some people like to dissect what a near death experience is.

I've had so many spiritual experiences.

For me,

It's just a normal,

It's just another one.

Another spiritual experience.

But did you want me to tell you about Yeah,

Please.

Okay,

So the first one,

I was 18 years old,

And I,

I was just new at university,

It was like about October or something.

And I came down with strep throat,

That my throat was just swollen,

Like I couldn't sweat and my temperature was so high.

And in my dormitory at university,

There was this little infirmary in the basement of the building.

So they with a hospital bed in it.

I don't know why they had it,

I guess.

Well,

I guess they had it for people like me.

So anyway,

They put me down there.

And they said,

We can't send you home until your temperatures down.

So they had a student nurse was coming in and checking my blood pressure,

My temperature and all this.

So anyway,

It was about Thursday,

And she came in and she said,

I've been wanting to go out with this guy for,

You know,

So long,

And he finally asked me out for this Friday,

But I can't go because I need to look after you.

So I said,

Oh,

You know,

Go on your date,

Don't worry about me.

And there was a phone next to my bed.

And she said,

Okay.

And like she didn't even second thought she didn't even say,

Oh,

No,

No,

It's okay.

Okay,

So she was going on this date.

And so anyway,

She said,

I'm going to call you at nine o'clock.

And I said,

Oh,

All right.

Well,

I can't go anywhere.

I can't even move.

So I'm lying down in my bed.

And I had a dream.

And for those of you not watching,

She's doing air quotes.

Yeah,

A dream where my spirit came out,

And it was heading towards the most beautiful orange light.

It was beautiful.

Like I was just like,

Whoa,

This is so good,

Right?

And I just felt light and so much energy and everything.

And then I thought,

Oh,

No,

I need to say goodbye to my roommate.

So I,

I start I was on the ceiling,

And I was going up because I was in the basement in our room was on the fourth floor.

And I was coming out of the basement on the ceiling.

And I was actually going up through this way.

And as I got to the front lobby,

I saw the girls dressed in these ball gowns.

And we had a military college that was in the same city.

So the girls were all lined up waiting for their taxis to go out to this ball.

They were all paired up with a military guy to go to this ball.

So I'm on the ceiling.

And I saw this girl,

She looked up at me and saw me on the ceiling.

And you know,

And and I did a somersault in the on the seat,

Like in the air.

And I said,

You've just seen your first ghost.

And so then I zipped up and I saw I went into the my room,

And my roommate wasn't there.

And I said,

Oh,

Too bad.

I've got to go zoom like this.

And then my spirit came boom back into my body because the nurse was standing there,

Or she came in.

And she said,

Oh,

My God,

I tried calling you.

I'm making the number up now because it was so long ago.

It was 18.

I'm gonna say like 30 times.

And she came in,

She said,

You didn't pick up and I thought you were dead.

And I said,

I think I was dead.

Was that where the girls going somewhere tonight?

And she said,

Yes,

They were going to the military college for a ball.

And I said,

I saw them.

Wow.

And,

And I said,

Yeah,

I saw them.

She said,

You could possibly have seen them.

You can't even get out of bed.

And I said,

I saw them.

I said,

I saw a girl and I was trying to find that girl,

But I never did.

But that story came in handy in my teaching career,

Which another day we can talk about that.

But we only have an hour and you have to kind of get the stories in for your audience,

Right?

That story made sense to me about 30 years later.

The second one,

I was doing an Indigenous ceremony because I live out in the part of the country where we have a lot of Indigenous people who do traditional ceremony.

And we don't have like I don't I can't say we I don't have because I don't go to church or anything.

I didn't have any kind of space to explore why my spirit could come out how I could have visions and all of this.

And so I went to this,

I was a part of this Indigenous ceremony,

And it was a fasting ceremony for four days.

And we're not supposed to talk about their ceremonies,

I can talk about my experience of what happened to me,

But I can't talk about other people's experiences,

Right.

But it was a fasting so there were no there was no drugs involved or anything and quite actually the opposite.

We had no food,

No water,

Four days hot sun,

It's like 100 degrees.

So anyway,

It was the third day of this ceremony,

I could just feel everything just started to whirl like this.

Then I was heading out into the most beautiful unconditional love.

It was the white light of unconditional love.

I had to open my eyes so big,

I was like this,

My eyes so big to see it.

And I,

In my experience,

I said,

Well,

Open your mouth wider,

It'll get your eyes bigger.

I don't know why I thought my pupils would get bigger,

Right.

But anyway,

I could see more.

But it was like this unconditional love was fused into my body.

And it was filling me right up right to my toes.

And I was going up,

Up,

Up like this.

And it was just so euphoric.

And I was just so and then I my mom had just passed over to the other side.

And she came down.

My mom has a smile like this,

Like big white teeth like this.

And she was smiling at me.

And she said,

Oh,

You can't come up any farther than this.

But I could see other spirits going up.

You know,

When you see rain coming down like this,

And you're watching the rain,

But this looked like rain going up.

And they were gray,

And they were all going up there to the other side.

And then my mom said,

You can't come any farther than this.

And it was the most beautiful white light of unconditional love I've ever experienced in my life.

It was so magnificent filled me all up.

And then I came boom,

Just like the first one back into my body.

When I came to I looked at my hands,

I didn't know they were hands.

I didn't know where I was.

And you know what I didn't know who I was.

And I and tell that voice,

I think God said,

You are Margo McKinnon,

The teacher.

So it's that teacher sense of purpose of why I was put here,

That always brings my spirit back into my body.

And so I came to but it had a profound impact on the rest of my life,

Even though it was short,

Because I thought,

Wow,

It's so beautiful,

Unconditional love over there.

Why are people fighting and harsh and abrasive down here.

And I thought,

You know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to try and recreate that vibration of unconditional love wherever I go.

In my home,

Raising my children,

That patient,

Kind experience of unconditional love in my classroom,

I said this is going to be a space where my students can feel welcomed and loved,

And where they have a kind patient teacher,

Which I have by nature,

And I'm a cheerful person by nature.

But it was more intentional.

I see what I'm doing now.

I am connecting with you,

God,

And I will be you in the classroom of unconditional love.

Beautiful.

Wow.

I remember,

I want to say when you shared something,

Maybe on another show that I heard around how you raised your kids,

Or your son,

You didn't you have a son that was a little difficult.

Can you share a little bit about that?

I love hearing this,

Margo.

It's so beautiful that you brought the unconditional love that you experienced from God,

Source,

Universe,

Whatever we're calling it,

And your intention was to bring it down into the classroom and with your own children.

Gorgeous.

So beautiful.

And then we get down here and we all forget why we're here.

We all don't remember,

And we're arguing,

And we're mad,

And we're holding grudges and all these things until we cross back over there.

And it's like,

Oh,

Wait,

Silly me,

Right?

You know what it reminds me of?

You know,

When you have to sell your house and you go around and you say,

Oh,

Let's paint this room.

Let's declutter over here.

And you go,

Why didn't we have our house like this while we lived here?

So it's the same thing.

Why are we not bringing all this unconditional love and kindness now?

Why are we waiting till we go over to the other side?

Why are we?

What do you think that's all about?

Well,

You know,

Okay.

A couple of weeks ago,

Because you know how I said,

I've just gone back to this word God.

I kind of call it the God zone now.

I bring myself up into the God zone.

Anyway,

I came in and I had to deal with a difficult,

Challenging person.

Well,

Actually two people.

And I came in and I hung my purse up and I kicked my shoes off at the door and put them in the cupboard.

And I came in and I said,

You know,

I'm getting really tired of dealing with challenging,

Difficult people.

And I heard God say,

Me too.

I have the same problem,

Only on a bigger scale.

And I thought,

If God can't get rid of wars and famine and poverty,

And what can I do?

But I think we can,

There are steps we can take.

And that's what we're talking about today.

What steps can we take to be a part of the change that we're looking for in this world?

Yes,

Please.

So you asked about my son and no,

It wasn't anything really bad,

But you know,

Teenagers when they're a bit experimental and dare I say a little bit moody.

Okay.

So he was in one of those and I love him so much.

Like he's turned into a magnificent man,

Magnificent.

He's 36 now.

And even he was visiting his grandfather.

My dad had to call me and just say,

Oh,

Margo,

He is like the most spectacular man.

Yes,

He is.

He's so kind,

So generous,

So loving.

And I think a lot has to do with this story I'm going to tell you.

So he was being a little challenging and difficult as a teenager.

And I thought,

Um,

And one incident was,

I don't know that anyone's ever had a child who's decided to experiment with alcohol and they come home.

Anyway,

So he was,

He had done this a few days in a row.

And I was actually terrified because I'm a quite a self-disciplined person.

And I,

And I didn't understand that what was happening.

And so anyway,

I thought I could punish him.

I grounded him.

I could punish him and make his life miserable.

And then God said,

No,

Marco,

His life is already miserable for him.

Do not make his life more miserable.

What you want to do,

You want to ground him,

But think about it,

Ground his spirit back into his body.

That's good,

Right?

It's not grounding as in punishing.

It's grounding as in ground,

His spirit round who he is round the life.

He wants to live back into his body.

That's your job as his mother.

Wow.

That's good.

I sat with him when he came to,

You know,

Like he can't talk to somebody when they're anyway.

So he came to,

And I said,

I think your life isn't how you want it to be.

I think the life,

Your spirit wants to live.

Now you don't have to use spirit with your child.

If they don't get that word,

You can say,

I think your life is not the magnificent life that you want to live.

Because I talk about creating the life your spirit wants to live.

I think your life is not the way you want it to be.

If your life were exactly how you want it to be,

What would that look like?

Well,

He knew immediately.

He said,

Well,

I,

Uh,

I live up north where there are a lot of trees.

Okay.

And I'm writing it all down.

Okay.

He said,

I kayak.

He was 17 at the time,

By the way,

I kayak.

Okay.

I work up north.

I drive a pickup truck.

I have people,

Clients up there and I,

I'm building a log home and I have horses in the back.

We live in where I live in Western Canada,

Where people have horses anyway,

And we're right in the foothills of the mountains.

Lots of trees.

So anyway,

I said,

Okay,

Tell me what these trees look like.

Are they like coniferous?

Are they,

He said,

They're big,

Big pine trees.

Oh,

Okay.

That sounds like Northern British Columbia.

So he said,

Okay.

So I told my friend who lived up north and Northern BC,

And he said,

Well,

It sounds like he wants my job.

He said,

I'm going to get him a job as an archaeologist assistant for the summer.

And he's going to come up and work for me.

So he was driving around in a pickup truck and all these trees.

And my friend was building a log house and he had horses in the back and this really grounded him.

He's just moving back to Alberta.

He was on the other side of the country,

But what he had a house in,

He had three acres,

All big trees around it,

A little log cabin in the middle.

And so what he's learned is how do you create the life your spirit wants to live?

Imagine your spirit is working at a job and it's crushing your spirit,

Which we need to get into this at some point.

So people know what we're talking about,

But some people are in marriages or relationships that are just grinding their spirit down.

And I have learned in my life,

I need to,

And I need to talk to my spirit.

And this is how I talk to her.

Margot,

My love,

My sweetheart,

My darling,

What would you like to do today?

How do you want to live?

How do you want your home decorated?

Which way do you want your bed to face?

What do you,

Are the sheets nice?

I talk to her like that.

Margot,

My sweetheart,

Because sometimes she doesn't want to go out in the world.

She'd rather just stay home.

Come on,

Margot,

We have to go,

Just be on your best behavior.

Love that.

So that really turned your son around.

It really did.

And you know what he uses?

So what we did was I said,

Okay,

Like we really need to get into this so I can explain this.

We do.

We got to get into the book.

But I said to him,

Okay,

Alcohol is going to destroy your life.

And out here in Alberta,

Our indigenous Blackfoot people say the reason why alcohol is called spirits,

Like wine and spirits is because it makes you feel that lightheaded feeling of being in spirit.

Wow.

I didn't know that.

And that's why people drink alcohol because their spirit is just so lonely in this human experience.

So I said to my son,

Like,

First of all,

Let's create,

I said,

My number one job as your mother is to help you create the life your spirit wants to live.

I told that to my students,

High school students,

My number one job is your teacher.

Yes,

I taught English literature,

But English literature isn't just about plot graphs and how the character deals with this and that and learning what alliteration and all that.

It's about the big questions of life.

That's what people write about.

That's what good literature is.

It poses the big questions and then the authors take characters through.

That's what we're talking about.

So I said to my,

But I knew with my students that I was doing more than teaching them that.

I was teaching them about how to live their own human experience.

How are they going to create the life?

That was my number one job as their teacher is to help them do that.

So we can come back to with parenting my son.

Once we get into this.

Yeah.

Yeah,

For sure.

I do want to get back to that because I think it's so important as parents that we recognize that these souls that are coming through us,

I don't care if they're adopted or not,

Or they came through us,

But they're being raised in our household.

They have these incredible missions and we need to take a step back and allow these kids to bloom into whomever that it is that they're here to become.

Cause we don't know.

And we put these very tight guardrails on them and think,

Oh,

Their life is going to be this.

And if they can get straight A's and if they can play this sport or dance or whatever the heck it is,

Then they're going to be okay.

And I realized,

And I did a lot of that as,

As a parent as well.

Thank God I woke up when they were older around that,

But it's so narrow.

And I realized it's,

It's unconscious,

Right?

It's very unconscious thinking.

It's like,

This is what all my friends were doing.

This is how my parents raised me.

Didn't know any other way,

But gosh,

There is a new way.

And that's why I was excited to have you on.

So let's talk about the dominance theory because what you talk about.

Wow.

That's what I said.

I got to have her on.

I want everybody.

I want everybody to learn what this is because it is so incredibly powerful.

So please share with us.

What is this dominance theory?

Well,

I love this because it transformed my life and my children's lives and my students in the classroom.

Once they learned how to use this model,

They just rose,

Not just to the top of their class,

But their marks.

I can look at,

We have a provincial exams and where I don't mark them or anything.

And they were outperforming like on the provincial exams with their writing and reading tests because of the confidence that they were getting from this like,

I think we were 15% above provincial average.

And I worked in a challenging school.

I prefer challenging schools.

I don't,

I,

I'm not,

You know,

I love the,

The,

The kids who are already have are already performing,

But I like the kids.

I get more joy out of working with the kids who come from challenging circumstances and getting their feet on the ground and get them,

You know,

That grounding word is just such a powerful one.

If we start rethinking what that means.

I love your reframe of that word.

It's not a punishment.

It's like,

Let's ground them into who they really are.

Correct.

Oh,

I love that.

I ground my kids for two weeks because it takes two weeks for them,

For their spirit and all of these.

So let's get on this Michelle.

Then it helps me explain it better.

All right.

To just start this off.

I came up with this about 20 years ago,

Actually.

And I,

My school wanted me to become a high school principal.

So they wanted me to be a,

Get my master's degree.

Now you have to realize everybody,

I was a single mom,

Three kids.

I got divorced early in my life when my kids were three,

Five,

And seven.

Mind you,

I co-parented.

So I did have time where I could work on a master's degree,

But I have to say,

I didn't have money.

And in fact,

I knew I didn't have any money because Halloween came and my son said,

Mom,

I want to dress.

And this isn't really politically correct,

But he said,

I want to be one of those hobos from the 1920s that hopped the trains and went across with a little pole.

He said,

I want to be that.

So can I borrow your coat?

I didn't know my coat was that shabby,

But anyway,

That's where I'm coming from.

So I have had like had my own struggles in life.

So anyway,

The principal said,

Can you get your master's degree?

And here I am single mom looking after my house,

Three kids,

The whole works.

Right.

And I was one of those moms that I make everything from scratch for cooking.

I go to every one of their games,

The very involved mom.

So anyway,

I said,

Of course,

Yes,

Just like I said to your podcast.

Okay.

Yeah.

Like I'll do that.

And so I took 10 courses and I took the last one was just for myself.

And my,

My,

My thesis was actually on teacher professional learning and how principals can create organizational culture to make that happen,

Which is basically what I'm doing now with spirituality.

But anyway,

So I took one course,

It was called philosophy of mind.

And our first homework assignment was how are the body,

Mind,

Spirit related?

I thought,

Oh yeah,

Great.

I'll just go and ask the voice slash God universe creator.

I'll ask for the answer.

I thought,

Excellent,

Great homework assignment.

So I came home and I have a system.

Like I clear out everything.

I let my candle,

I like those yellow pads of paper.

Oh,

I pen out,

Love them.

No.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Yellow pads.

And I always have a candle wherever I am.

Yes.

There you go.

See you.

You're already incense going too,

But I didn't want the smoke video.

So I got my yellow pad of paper out and I,

And I really was not expecting what I got.

I said,

So how are the body,

Mind,

Spirit related?

Well,

That voice has come in as a voice this time it came in and it was this figure in my living room.

And it's almost as if my,

The ceiling of my house grew bigger to accommodate,

Like it was massive.

And it said,

We have five dimensions.

You have five dimensions of self,

Not just three.

Wow.

You have a body,

Put it this way,

A body,

A mind.

These are all dimensions of yourself.

Okay.

You have a body dimension,

A mind dimension.

You have a spirit,

You have a soul.

And right then I go spirit and soul.

I thought they were the same thing.

No,

They're two different dimensions of yourself.

Okay.

And you have oneness.

It said oneness,

But in drawing my little pie chart,

It didn't look good.

Oneness.

It spilled over here.

Anyway.

So I put one,

You have five dimensions of self.

So what are the difference?

So we know our physical here's mine.

There's yours.

You all have yours,

But it's also your physical,

The house you live in the car,

You drive anything material.

Your mind is your logical,

Rational self.

It's your system self.

It's the one that does your grocery list.

It pays your taxes.

It,

You know,

It does all those things.

Your spirit,

Because my,

Our spirit came from absolute unconditional love.

That place I went back to in my near-death experience.

It came from unconditional love.

Your spirit came into your body of unconditional love.

Your spirit remembers that unconditional love.

You know what?

It longs for that unconditional love.

And it's also your real self.

Your true,

Your true,

Pure essence of self.

That's the self we're born with,

Right?

Like before the ego comes in false self and all that.

Yep.

Got it.

Yes.

Your soul is your purpose.

Why did your spirit come in?

And also at this point in time and history.

So that's your purpose over here.

Oneness is your connection to God,

Universe,

Creator,

Source.

It is your sense of connection and belonging.

So then it said you're born dominant in one of these dimensions and you grow the other ones over time.

So body dominant people,

Their spirit came in and they love this place.

You know,

Hair,

Makeup,

Nails,

Fashion,

Shopping,

Decorating,

Making beautiful dinner parties.

Now I'm not a body dominant person.

And in fact,

In my book,

I have a little scale you can take.

I,

In my olden days,

I put my body dimension at about a one because I thought all that stuff was a big waste of time.

And now I figured out that that's,

Do you think that I literally am like,

Oh my God,

I have to go get my nails done.

Damn it.

Like,

I don't want to have to go.

Well,

I had my,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like one day,

Uh,

My friend called me and he said,

Hey,

What are you doing?

And I said,

Well,

I'm trying to live like a body dominant right now.

It's 11 o'clock in the morning.

I'm exhausted.

I've I've just cleaned my whole house.

I've shown up some of my pieces over here.

I've I'm ironing napkins,

Like linen napkins.

I said,

I think I'm going to have to give it up.

It's really time consuming.

So if you go to a body dominant person's house for dinner and you see the beautiful candles and the,

And the beautiful property,

Hey,

That was a lot of work for them and really be grateful.

They've shown their love to you.

They've shown their love to you and be so appreciative.

I'm grateful that just my brain doesn't do that.

Well,

Yeah,

Well I had to learn.

I'm now,

I think I've now graduated to a three.

Oh great.

Okay.

I have linen napkins.

I have linen napkins and I have my house the way I want it.

I run every,

I run every day,

Everybody.

So I run one day miles and I,

The next day I do four miles with my seven pound weights.

So I want to stay physically fit.

I eat high nutrition food,

Except it's going to be 32 degrees today.

So an ice cream cone might be an order.

Well,

That's,

That's Celsius for everybody.

Oh yeah.

Celsius.

32 is freezing in,

In,

Uh,

Yeah,

That's freezing.

Yeah.

Sorry.

We were on Celsius.

It means really,

Really hot.

Um,

So I like that you're saying this,

So I am a little bit body.

I do really,

I only eat really clean foods.

I do enjoy a little yoga,

Working out,

All that kind of thing.

Okay.

So maybe I'm not,

I'm going to the extreme of zero.

So got it.

Oh yeah.

So,

And I used to think like a pet,

I had my,

I had a pedicure two weeks ago.

I never do that.

And now I think,

I think I need that like at least once a month.

That was really wonderful.

But anyway,

So your body,

So don't think it's all frou-frou waste of time,

All of that.

Take some time to do your hair and,

And create a beautiful space to live in.

It's actually fun.

Have friends in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So mind-dominant,

Logical,

Rational systems.

I have high mind,

But I do not want to work in a mind-dominant organization because it just crushes my spirit.

Because sometimes mind-dominant people can be very serious.

And when they're stressed out,

They can micromanage and reinforce.

I was giving a lot of stress and burnout online sessions to nurses all across the country during COVID.

And I was saying,

Well,

Mind-dominant people,

When they're stressed,

They will micromanage and create more systems and then call people idiots and,

And not,

And lose their trust that people are doing their job and all that.

So this nurse piped in,

She said,

I am a mind-dominant nurse manager.

And I realized now I am burning out my staff because when I'm anxious,

I make more checklists for them to fill in.

And then they can't,

They're complaining.

They can't actually do their jobs,

Which is attend to patients because they're sitting there filling out all my micromanaging forms.

Now,

Of course we need systems to live in,

But just recognize if you're a mind-dominant person,

If you're finding yourself calling everybody out while you're driving an idiot,

Rein that in.

If you have that compulsion to micromanage,

Rein that in.

That's what's so great about this model,

Right?

So spirit-dominant people,

They value unconditional love,

Peacefulness.

I'm here for an experience.

Why are you micromanaging me right now?

And so spirit-dominant,

When they're stressed and they can find this world to be unnecessarily,

When I point over here,

Everybody,

I have a big bank of windows that face out onto the city skyline out here.

It's a beautiful view,

But I also live in an oil and gas town.

So I know they're all sitting in their little cubies over here,

Working away while we get to have this beautiful conversation.

So I look over there and I'm watching them all work.

If you see me look over there,

Because I live in a very mind-dominant city.

But so mind-dominant.

And so just rein yourself in and spirit-dominant value,

Unconditional love and peacefulness.

They tend to be our poets,

Our artists,

Our counselors.

Yes.

And they can feel like this world is unnecessarily harsh and abrasive.

And sometimes they just want to go home now.

It's like,

They are here,

We're at a party that they never wanted to go to in the first place.

And they just want to go home.

But what I'm working on right now,

Everybody enjoying,

Just let's get involved here,

Michelle and your whole community here.

I'm trying to bring forth spirit-dominant leadership.

Because spirit-dominant leaders know,

And God told me that that's what my next mission is,

To bring that forward.

Because body dominance to the extreme are killing the earth with materialism.

Mind dominance to the extreme,

My dad is a mind-dominant,

He's my greatest mentor,

Fully balanced person.

So if you're fully balanced and mind-dominant,

I'm not talking to you.

I'm talking to the person who is micromanaging.

But our organizations are so mind-dominant that they've created structures that a lot of us just don't want to live in anymore.

And we're getting depression and anxiety because our spirit is just saying,

This is not the life I want to live.

So I'm saying,

And I'm running a kind of a research project,

It's going to be my third book on spirit-dominant leadership and how you do it.

So I'm using,

I'm a leader of an organization and I'm doing it in a spirit-dominant way and I'm using it as a case study.

And I run webinars on how to be a spirit-dominant leader,

Because you need courage if you want to step up.

How do you be a compassionate person in a leadership position?

And how,

If we all know we're spirits having a human experience as a leader,

How do you create the most magnificent experience for everybody who's working for you and with you in the organization?

So that's what it is.

Soul dominance,

They just want to do their soul purpose and that's all they want to do.

They can't just go and get a job,

I don't know,

I always say lipstick,

Selling lipstick at the counter.

If that's not there,

And just to make money.

They don't care if they make money.

They have to be doing their purpose.

So if people want to say,

Well,

Why are you running that when you hardly have anybody in it or something like this?

Well,

Because it's my soul purpose and I'm here to help and serve.

Okay,

So it doesn't matter to me how many people are in there or anything,

Right?

But a mind-dominant will come along and say,

Stop doing that because you should have this lit.

Do you know what I mean?

Oneness-dominant are people who value unconditional,

Or no,

Sorry,

Connection and belonging above everything else.

And they can get,

When they're stressed,

They get worried about people not feeling connected or people not belonging,

And they tend to worry about problems all over the world.

And so some will say to me,

Well,

Margot,

Aren't you really worried about some tragedy somewhere else?

And I'll say,

Actually,

No,

I stay in my lane.

My lane is this.

I do my soul purpose and I count on the other soul purpose people,

Soul dominance in that region to take care of it.

I don't need to take care of everything.

I just need to take care of what God asks me to do.

So that's what it is.

So when my son was going through his,

I said to him,

Okay,

So you're not living the life,

Your spirit,

Your identity.

You aren't acting like your real self.

Let's work on who are you really.

I want you to have a vision for what the life is that your spirit wants to live.

My job is to help you get there.

Now let's go over here.

Are you eating?

Like I cook everything nicely,

But people that aren't looking,

She's pointing to the body,

Right?

Oh yeah.

I'm pointing to the body.

Sorry.

I forgot about that.

Michelle,

If you're when let's look at your body dimension,

Are you having slurpees?

You know,

Those big ice?

Yeah.

Are you eating chips or all of those things and just like toxin up your body?

Let's,

Let's eat clean food.

When I get home from work,

We're going for a run along the river together.

You're not having any friends over.

There's no television.

There's no computer.

We're talking.

We are being together.

We are reading.

We are driving to the mountains on the weekends.

We're gardening.

We're,

We're working together.

We're building something together.

So this is because your son was a body dominant.

No,

He's a spirit dominant.

He's a spirit dominant.

So why did then as you're raising him and parenting him,

Or when you were quote unquote grounding him,

Right?

Why did you shift to body dominance?

Because he wasn't,

He was,

He was having,

Taking alcohol,

Which means his spirit is off.

So I wanted to make sure he was taking care of his body.

Then I wanted to say,

Okay,

Let's,

Let's,

If you're going to be behaving like this,

Your schoolwork is going to go down.

So let's go to your mind dimension and let's look at your school.

Are you taking the courses that you need to live that life that you want?

Let's go and review your courses and let's go.

And I'm a teacher.

Let's see where you are.

And let's get those marks up.

We've already know that you're with your spirit.

We know what that life is,

But let's,

You're also a very soul person.

You need a sense of purpose and meaning.

You need something bigger in your life.

And at 17,

As a parent,

I played the long game.

You know,

You don't have to find your purpose and meaning at 17.

Let's get you being able to handle the human experience,

Which is very complicated by the way,

Michelle,

It requires a lot of skillsets.

Let's get you those skillsets of confidence.

And so let's,

We can,

Now he's totally,

He's in a career that is totally soul purpose.

And then let's,

He didn't have such a hard time with his connection and belonging.

He's an,

Was a natural born leader.

Like I had to say,

People want to be your friend.

People listen to what you have to say.

This will come in handy in your career someday,

But you have to be fully engaged in your body,

Mind,

Spirit,

Soul,

And oneness.

Be that mentor for other people.

I love that.

So my other son,

He's four years younger.

He lost his job during COVID.

And so he said,

Mom,

How do I get a job when I have to go online and try and find some job using these like online application things?

And I said,

Okay,

We'll sit at the table.

Let's start back,

Back.

Cause this is how he always gets a job.

And he got it the last time and then he lost it during COVID.

And then he had to use this five dimensions model once again.

And I said,

Okay,

It's COVID go to your body dimension.

And for anybody,

Draw your pie chart,

Put your five dimensions on there.

And then say,

How am I going to improve my body dimension?

Well,

His hair was all like this.

Like you can't see it if you're listening,

But it was a little bit of COVID hair.

And I could think you can all imagine.

And he had a COVID beard.

So he said,

I better shave my beard off and get a haircut.

Good idea.

A little bit of COVID,

15 pounds.

Also,

I better start working out at the gym.

So DC go to your body.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like that.

Then I need to go to my mind dimension and say,

How do you get a job?

Okay.

Go on LinkedIn,

Write a note to your contacts,

Get your resume all buffed up,

Get a nice covering research,

The organizations you want to be.

That's all mine stuff.

Then go over to your spirit and say,

I want this job to be one that my spirit loves to go to every day.

I want it to help me create the life.

My spirit wants to live.

I've messed up my hair.

I just noticed.

And,

Uh,

And,

And trying to show you about what his hair looks like.

Oh my goodness.

Look at mine.

Uh,

Then go over here.

I want this job that comes in to have a real sense of meaning and purpose.

I don't want it to be a job where I just go for the money.

I want to feel like I'm really involved.

And he said,

You know what,

During COVID I lost my sense of oneness.

And he's like a very charismatic.

He was the guy in high school that would be the MC for sports award night and everything.

Cause he's like super funny,

But he,

He said,

I've lost my connection and belonging through COVID because we had to stay home.

And also because I lost my job.

And anytime I went out into the world,

How's the job hunt going?

Well,

I don't want to see them.

So I'm staying.

He said,

So I realized now I have to get back out.

I have to make more connections.

I have to get belonging again.

Well,

He started on this and he started filling in his body dimension section and his mind dimension section.

And right then in came a text.

He had been out of work for three months in came a text.

Hey buddy,

My company needs somebody exactly like you.

And I told my boss,

Why don't we get him then?

If you want somebody exactly like him.

So he got the job.

Like he,

He texted back.

Sure.

I'll be there nine in the morning.

He said,

I better hustle and get this haircut and see if my clothes still fit after my COVID 15 pounds.

But anyway,

He got that job,

But he said,

I want to carry on.

Even though I have a job interview by morning,

I want to talk to my spirit.

I want to talk to God universe creator and say,

I am ready.

Now I would like this job to feed my spirit.

So you can really use this as a really excellent lifelong tool.

I love that.

I was just going to ask you,

So who would,

Who would read that book?

And I,

I know everyone needs to read it,

But if someone's sitting,

You're listening,

Going,

Well,

Does this apply to me?

Tell who would,

Who would benefit from reading this book?

Well,

Naturally I think everybody should.

Because it'll promise them what when they're done,

If I'm an adult and I'm in my forties,

Fifties,

Sixties,

However old I am.

Well,

The thing about us is there are grander and grander versions of us waiting to come into being and we can get stuck where we are right now and not know how to get into our next grander version.

This is a little mat.

My book is a little magical tool that will just start stimulating your spirit,

Your soul,

And God's listening to you.

God creator universe source is listening to you.

So once you start making a commitment to yourself and you say,

I am ready now to go to my next level,

This will help you.

If you have children and you're worried,

I put a parenting section at the end of chapters so that parents who say,

Oh,

I have that child.

I have this one.

That's,

Oh,

I,

I know how to,

I have some extra tools.

It's a real toolkit.

It's a guide.

It's a toolkit in here.

So if you're struggling with a family member,

A child,

A parent,

It will help you understand,

Oh,

I know why I am the way I am now,

Because my mother was body dominant and my dad was mind dominant.

And I'm a spirit dominant.

I know how to relate to them better,

How to respond to them better.

I'm not going to beat myself up anymore.

Uh,

I know how to live this life better,

Better,

Better.

So I have all kinds of people.

I have,

Um,

Politicians.

I have heads of pediatric units in American hospitals.

I have space scientists,

Olympians saying,

Okay,

Margo,

I saw you on a podcast.

Show me how to use this five dimensions so that I can go to my next level as an Olympian.

And they're all,

You know,

They're already like,

You'd think they were at the top of their field being an Olympian already,

But no,

They want to,

They want to go higher.

They know there's another grander version of themselves.

And they also,

You know,

This one particular couple I'm thinking about,

They were both Olympians.

And,

Um,

And so they wanted to make sure,

Cause they had to travel so much,

Right.

And in their competitions,

And they wanted to make sure that their relationship stayed tight.

And so they wanted an exercise that said,

What is the life your spirit wants to live?

What is your soul purpose?

What is your spirit want to live?

What's your soul purpose?

How can we make sure that we stay together as a unit and we keep our connection and belonging together,

Even though we have to travel so much in all our competitions.

So it's a really widespread,

You know,

If you're struggling to somebody where you think,

Well,

Gee,

It sounds like you have it made in the shade.

Well,

They want to even go to their higher level.

Does that help?

I love that.

So it's about up-leveling where we are now.

And if we're still alive,

We're still growing,

Or we have an opportunity to grow,

To continue to grow.

I always think about we're all traveling up to the top of this mountain.

At some point,

We're going to die.

But if we're still on the mountain,

There's still room for growth.

There's still room for up-leveling of being the best version of self.

So this book is what I'm hearing you say will help you to do just that.

So you keep up-leveling.

Yes.

Got it.

Exactly.

And I put a conversation guide at the end of each chapter.

So people are using it as a book club book.

Oh,

I love that.

So they'll read one chapter and then they'll do the conversation guide together in a book club.

I'm having families reading the book because they want to have a really solid family,

An enduring family.

So they want to read it together.

And it's really funny too,

Because one woman wrote to me and she said,

I never knew my dad was into this spirit stuff.

And then he saw this book on my coffee table.

He's read it twice now.

And he says he's going to read it a third time.

And she said,

We never had these conversations before.

Wow.

Oh my gosh.

I love it.

I can't wait until my book comes.

I know.

I think it was all our holidays there,

Michelle.

It's gotten stuck in the mail along the way.

I was so excited.

Gosh.

Well,

Is there anything else that you'd like to add before we close out the show today?

Did we miss anything?

Um,

I think we covered a lot of territory today,

But if I,

If I can leave any of you with something,

It's take some time today and just look up at the sky and talk to God creator source and say,

I'm ready now.

I'm ready now to go up to my next level.

And I always add in there,

Uh,

What do you need me to do for you,

God?

Cause some with all the kind of ideas about manifesting,

It's like one woman said,

Well,

Why isn't God coming down and doing this and this and this?

And I,

And,

Uh,

Why do you get to hear God so strongly?

And I said,

Because I don't ask God to do very much for me.

I ask God what he wants me to do for him.

Oh my God.

You're speaking my language.

I love this so much.

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Love your guests! Love your talks! You are the ideal podcaster! Thanks for inspiration when my Spirit dominant side wants to go home!

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