Healthy Relationships Part 2

I was inspired to do a follow up show to answer questions and comments that came in from the Healthy Relationships podcast episode #146 a couple of weeks ago. So today’s show is a continuation of ideas and tools to help you cultivate healthy relationships in your life.

Transcript

Welcome to the Adult Share Podcast with Michelle Chalfant,

A place to delve into who we are,

How we got that way,

And explore what it takes to be a healthy grownup.

With an extensive toolbox and guests with varied expertise,

Michelle will lead us on a journey to learn what it's like to live authentically and to love ourselves just the way we are.

And now,

Here's Michelle.

Hello,

Everybody.

My name is Michelle Chalfant,

And I'm delighted to be here with you today on the Adult Share Podcast,

Where we really learn how to live our healthiest and best self.

And today is so different.

We're going to be talking about living our healthiest and best selves in relationships.

And this podcast was inspired by all the comments and questions I got from the podcast I just did two weeks ago,

Which was Healthy Relationships Part 1,

I'm going to call it,

Which was podcast number 146.

I don't think in almost 150 podcasts that I've ever gotten so many comments on social media and even in emails.

I mean,

I realized this was a really,

Really big topic.

So I just felt inspired to do a part two.

So I'm giving you a tiny bit of review on a few of these key points to healthy relationships,

But also I'm going to be giving you some new examples and some new keys to healthy relationships.

So oh,

I have a really,

Really giant announcement before we get started.

I'm thrilled.

Finally,

I've signed everything,

Signed my life away.

We are going to have the next Adult Share Workshop in Nashville,

Tennessee,

May 4th and 5th.

I've just signed everything.

We have put it on the calendar.

It is on the website,

Theadultshare.

Com forward slash workshop.

Go there for all the details.

And I'm giving you guys $100 off for the month of March.

So go check it out if you really want to learn a lot more about the three chairs,

The aspects of every single chair and how you can learn how to better apply this into your own life.

This is where you want to come.

So come join us May 4th and 5th at theadultshare.

Com forward slash workshop for all the details.

And I'm going to limit it to only 50 people.

So make sure that you sign up soon because the last class filled up in 30 days and we had a gigantic waiting list.

So make sure that if you're thinking about doing this,

Go ahead and sign up.

All right.

That's number one.

Number two,

Our membership site is going so well.

I am thrilled.

So we are in month number,

It's actually month number three,

But we're going today or this month into the adolescent chair.

So if you want to learn about your masks and all the many,

Many,

Many aspects of our lovely adolescent chair,

Which is the egoic part of ourself,

Come join us there at theadultshare.

Com forward slash membership site.

And that is just something that I have wanted to create for so long and it's finally up.

And I have a very low introductory rate on this membership site that's not going to be around forever.

So come and join us there.

Go and check it out and see what you think.

Cause I'd love to have you in there.

It's really,

There's a lot of great people in there already and it's growing by the day.

So it's very exciting.

Come check it out.

Okay.

Here we go.

Healthy relationships part two.

How do we do healthy relationships when the other person does not know how?

And what I'm going to say to that is most of us don't know how to do relationships really well.

And I don't care if it's a romantic relationship or a friendship.

And I'm going to start out with this because this podcast is for anybody,

Whether it's a relationship with your child,

Your teenager,

Your adult child,

Your spouse,

Your boyfriend,

Your girlfriend,

Your partner.

I do not care.

A relationship is a relationship.

And unfortunately,

Most of us don't know how to do that well.

And I wish there was a manual.

And let me tell you,

Because of all the comments from last weeks or the show from two weeks ago,

I'm thinking about creating something just around relationships.

Because I realized there's such a huge need for,

We need some help on learning how to do it well.

But anyway,

And relationships take work.

This is very,

Very,

Very true.

And I realize we take better care of our cars than we do ourselves and our relationships.

If your car breaks down,

You go fix it.

If you want to do well in school,

If you want to get straight A's,

What do you have to do?

It takes work.

If you want to lose weight or get in shape,

What do you do?

You go to the gym and you work at it.

Unfortunately,

We do not wake up with six pack abs.

I wish I could,

But we do not.

We've got to go to the gym and work at it.

And relationships are no different.

They take work.

Nothing magically happens.

When two people come together,

They're going to get triggered unless you're not human,

But most of us are human.

They're listening to the show.

And some people get triggered more than others in relationship,

But triggering happens.

Some people say to me,

My husband and I,

We come home every day and we have our wine and we sit and we talk and we have lovely time.

Many of us come home and we numb out on alcohol and we're not really having deep conversations about what's going on.

And we numb out whether we're drinking or getting high or whatever we're doing.

But a healthy relationship,

In any relationship,

If we're not numbing out,

We're going to be triggered.

There's going to be things that come up that we need to talk about.

And that's what this,

It's just for me,

The very first,

Very important key to healthy relationships is healthy communication.

So within this healthy communication is not only expressing how your day was or the score of the football game or the schedule for the week with the kids.

That's great.

And we need to know that,

But it's about being able to express to our other person,

Deeper things,

The things that really,

Really matter to keep us together long term.

Okay.

Here's a question that came in and it was a really good one.

This girl says in relationships,

It takes two people to communicate.

So I can learn all of these effective communication techniques and the other person doesn't know these techniques.

So communication remains frustrating and I'm continually misunderstood.

People put words in my mouth that were never there.

Do you have ideas for me?

The answer is yes.

When I hear the phrase that people put words in my mouth,

This is an indicator to me that the other person is not hearing what you are saying.

So when you're speaking,

They're probably already triggered and already in a defense or defending themselves and they can't hear a word that you are saying.

This happens all the time.

I use this example on the last show and ironically,

Because this happens all the time with couples.

I had another example that came in.

It was very,

Very,

Very similar to the last show's example.

This time I had a guy or a man and a woman that came in and I invite,

Of course,

I always invite the person number one to share their reality and their emotions to the second person and I invite the second person to stay fully present.

Two key words,

Fully present.

And I also explain that person number one is dropping into their precious,

Innocent inner child and sharing their reality,

Which is very,

Very scary and vulnerable.

So please be patient and just stay present and just listen.

So I just did this the other day with a couple and I said,

It was very similar to the podcast from a couple of weeks ago,

But person number one,

It was a female,

She said,

I feel really hurt and sad when you come home late from work.

And her husband said,

What do you think?

I'm not working for the family.

Very defensive.

I cut them off and said,

Hold on,

Hold on.

She did not even finish what she was saying.

Can you please allow her to speak her full paragraph or whatever she'd like to say before you respond?

This is a lesson in just being present and listening.

And I said,

Please be aware.

She's not accusing you of anything.

This is key.

She is simply sharing her reality.

Think about all that goes on in the,

In the human brain.

We have 70 to 90,

000 thoughts a day.

You cannot possibly guess what another person's 70 to 90 thoughts a day are.

There's no way.

So it's our job to share our reality.

And if we're in a relationship with someone,

It's their job to sit and listen to that first person shared reality.

So that's what I was inviting these two people to do.

So I cut them off when he started going into his defense and I said,

Hold on,

Just listen.

We're going to start this over again.

I'm telling you it's,

It's so ironic,

But this happens just about every single time when I have two people,

Again,

I don't care if it's husband,

Wife,

Partner,

Partner,

Boyfriend,

Girlfriend.

I don't care.

Mother,

Daughter,

Mother,

Son.

We do not listen well.

So I asked this person to start speaking again.

There was a woman,

Her name was Julie.

I said,

Julie,

Can you please start over and let Steve listen?

So she started again.

She said,

I feel hurt and sad when you come home late from work and you don't call and you do not let me know that you're going to be late.

And he again jumped right in and said,

That's fine.

I can do that.

That's just silly that you're sad over me being late.

I just don't even understand that.

Like why would you be sad?

Like that's ridiculous.

What's wrong with you?

I can't even,

I cannot comprehend that you're sad.

And I of course jumped right in,

Hand up in the air.

I said,

Stop,

Stop,

Stop,

Stop.

I said,

Steve,

You're completely judging her.

You're judging her for having number one,

An emotion and number two,

For having a reality that you do not agree with.

I said,

Uh-uh,

We're not doing that in here.

I said,

I've asked you now twice.

I'm going to ask you three times to please just listen.

I said,

I don't care if you have to sit on your hands,

Put your tape on your mouth,

Just listen.

You are defending yourself and she's just sharing her reality and you are making this about you.

It's not about you.

She's sharing her reality.

You know,

When I'm in my office with people,

It was a visual.

So if you can imagine,

Imagine putting your fingertips together out in front of you and you have a big ball in front of you and like that you're holding.

And I always say this,

What I'm holding inside of me where the ball would be is my reality.

So it's like we take our fingertips and we open them a little bit and I share my reality with others and then they close them back.

So that's also a demonstration of boundaries.

So it's like an internal reality that we're sharing.

So we open and then we close again.

I said,

She's doing a very,

Very vulnerable activity here,

Which is sharing her reality and you're cutting her off.

Please stop.

Just listen.

And he said,

Okay.

I think I did have him sit on his hands.

I had someone do that this last week.

I can't remember who it was.

I think it might've been Steve.

Anyway,

So Julie started again and she says,

I feel hurt and sad when you come home late and don't call me and let me know that you're going to be late.

I paused her and I said,

Do you hear that?

And he said,

Yes.

I said,

Okay.

I said,

Let's keep going,

Julie.

And she says,

Because when my father,

When I was a child,

She said,

My father,

When I was five left for work and never came home.

He left the family for good.

So I think I'm being triggered when you don't call me and let me know that you're going to be late.

And then I said,

Did you hear her now?

And he said,

Yes.

I said,

Did you completely hear her?

And he said,

Yes.

And I said,

What did you hear her say?

And he said that I am reminding her of her father and I'm going to leave her and never come home if I don't call and let her know.

And I turned to her and I said,

Did he get that right?

And she said,

He did.

And then she said,

But there's a slight correction.

I'm not feeling like he's my father,

But the wounding that's there from my father or the abandonment is being activated when he doesn't call.

Now,

Of course,

She and I had worked on this.

So she had the language for that.

And I said,

Okay,

Steve,

Did you hear her now correctly?

And he said,

Yes.

And then I asked him to repeat her again or what she had said.

And he actually did it very well.

And then at the end,

I invited Julie to ask him,

Or excuse me,

I invited Steve to ask Julie,

You know,

So then what do you need from me to help you to feel better?

And she said,

I just need a phone call letting me know that you're going to be late.

That's it.

That you're going to be home by X time.

And if you're going to be late,

Just call me.

And I said,

Are you able to do that?

And he said,

Yes.

And he was really humbled when he heard about her dad,

Because he had forgotten that.

He of course had known that,

But he had forgotten it.

So it's really,

Really important that we share our realities.

And if you're the listener,

That you really sit in presence without judgment and let that person get everything out about their reality.

What I absolutely love when working with two people,

Again,

It could be anybody,

Mother,

Daughter,

Husband,

Wife,

Whatever it is,

Is that when we learn healthy communication and that other person is actually present and witnessing what's going on with us,

It can help to heal and transform our earlier childhood wounding.

So if Steve and Julie keep this up and he keeps calling and just letting her know,

More than likely,

She will eventually not need him to call her at all because her abandonment wound won't be so deep.

She will have built up enough trust with him within that relationship to let it go.

That is the kind of thing that I see all the time.

So that old wounding within her is just transformed.

So if you're doing this at home without a therapist,

Which of course I would recommend doing it with a therapist or a relationship coach,

They can just be in the middle and help you to catch yourself when you are being triggered and when you're in that defensive place.

But if you want a really great therapist that can do this,

I would look for an EFT therapist,

Which is emotionally focused therapist or a MAGO or a Gottman.

These people really know I've had all three of those trainings and I really liked bits and pieces of all of them.

And what I teach in the adult share is bits and pieces of all of them.

But I really like the sharing of realities.

That's key.

That's absolutely key.

But if you're doing this at home,

You want to remember the setup.

If you want to listen to that podcast that I did last week,

I go through the whole entire setup of how we do this,

How we do the setup,

How to help yourself to feel safe,

How to educate the other person.

So listen to that last podcast,

146,

And you will have steps on how to do this at home with your beloved or with your whomever without doing it with a therapist or a coach.

Now if you've got somebody that is not listening to the podcast or not really aware or not thinking there's anything wrong or doesn't want a healthier relationship because they don't even know that there could be a healthier,

They're just not even conscious.

We'll put it like that.

I've had many,

Many,

Many clients come in and ask me,

How can I change my marriage?

How can I change my relationship?

And of course they want me to give them,

Which I swear I had these magic pills.

I don't have a magic pill.

I wish I did.

But we want someone else to change.

You've heard me say this many,

Many times.

We must begin changing that dance.

We must begin to change first.

And that takes some patience,

But we are the ones,

People ask me all the time,

How do I get my fill in the blank to live in their adult chair?

You live in your adult chair first and model for them what healthy looks like.

You start.

So in relationships,

We do a dance with whomever we are in relationship with.

So imagine doing the waltz with somebody.

Well if the waltz is old,

If the relationship is old and you don't like how that relationship is going,

You have to change the dance.

Don't expect that other person to step up and change.

You have to change the dance.

So you got to be the one that starts doing the polka.

So when you start to change,

Then that other person can change with you.

They'll follow you and they'll change or they go and they sit down.

So here's a big question.

Someone's in a relationship where they really want to change and they're thinking about leaving but they're not quite sure.

The first question I always ask is,

Do you want to stay or not?

We have to get really clear about that.

And if they say yes,

But I'm not happy with that relationship,

Then I say,

Okay,

Well,

Let's start a new dance.

And I just had a client the other day that I was working with and she wants to change the dance with her husband.

And she doesn't know where to begin because she wants a deeper,

More connected relationship with him,

But she does not even know where to begin.

She has some,

Of course,

Some ideas.

We've been working together for a while,

But I said,

Okay,

First of all,

Let's go.

Go slowly with this.

Again,

He's not someone that listens to this podcast yet,

Because I have seen miracles lately where,

Gosh,

Partners and spouses and people are listening to the show that I would have never guessed,

But we're going to say yet.

But he's thinking,

Their relationship is just what it is and it's not God awful,

But she wants it to be closer and more connected.

So I said,

The first step is to go slowly and let's really watch for little changes to happen.

The other thing is when we're working or when we're in a relationship with somebody,

We want to remember when we're speaking with them and we are attempting to create this new connection,

Remember to slow everything down,

Including our speech.

And it's very important to watch the tone of voice.

Do you know that when we raise our voice like this and we do this,

It throws us the nervous system into fight or flight or freeze.

So we might leave our body when we are going into this higher pitched voice.

Just keep that in the back of your mind.

It's a really important part here.

But anyway,

So I said to her,

I said,

Why don't you,

I said,

First of all,

We have to know what is the other person's love language?

So are they someone that enjoys physical touch?

Are they someone that likes to hold hands?

Are they someone that likes to hear,

I love you?

What do they like?

So she said,

This client,

She said,

He really likes physical touch.

I said,

Great.

I said,

Okay,

So let's start by letting him know and inviting him to have a deeper connection.

So we decided that she's going to ask him some questions like,

Hey,

What do you,

Hey,

I'd like to have a,

I'd like to build up our relationship.

I'm going to give you a few examples of what you could use.

Like I'd love to have a deeper connection with you.

I'd love to have a deeper relationship with you.

I would love to connect deeper in the heart space with you.

Now you might get that response,

Like what's wrong with our relationship?

Again,

Going into a defense.

And that's when you have to remember to stay present because we're teaching them how to do a healthy relationship from their adults.

That's when we come back and we say,

No,

No,

No,

There's nothing wrong.

I just want to keep growing with you.

I really love you.

I want to form a deeper relationship with you.

So that was where we started and that's what she's going to say to him.

And she's going to,

And as she's speaking to him,

She's going to reach out and touch his arm while she's saying that because he's a really,

He's,

He really enjoys physical touch and they have not been doing that in a really long time.

So I said,

Just what if you reach out and just maybe put your hand on top of his or put your arm,

Your hand on his arm,

Something small like that.

So we're just inviting that person into something a little bit more connected.

So this is just where we begin.

Like we want to awaken that other person that we would like something a little bit more and even pique their interest.

Okay.

So I encouraged her,

Just,

I said,

Why don't you invite him to just start going for walks in the evening with you,

Like a 20 minute walk around the block after dinner or something like that.

And then you can start asking him deeper questions or get to know him on a deeper level or things like that.

But we're just starting here because even doing something as what we would find as basic as that is something they just have never done.

So I said,

We want to start small and do very little teeny tiny things that make big impacts and touching his arm and letting him know that you'd like to have a deeper relationship.

And he would too,

What we're doing is we're opening up not only her vulnerability in her heart,

But we're also opening up his.

So that's where we start.

So think of something,

If you want to start this with someone else,

Very,

Very benign and is a very open dialogue with that other person.

You can even explore like,

What can we do?

Maybe we should do date night.

That's another thing I worked with with this couple just last week.

I said,

When can you craft time in your week that you can find a space to actually connect as adults?

Because they have many,

Many children.

They have no free time.

And I said,

What if you did a date night?

And they said,

We can't afford that right now.

These kids are so expensive,

Da da da,

Date nights are an extra hundred dollars.

I said,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No.

Go to Starbucks once a week for an hour.

Starting small.

We don't want to expect these big gigantic leaps into these connected,

Crazy loving relationships.

We just want to start really small.

And I know I gave some other tips in the other podcasts about hugging,

Doing that,

What we were calling slow sex,

Which is you hug for five minutes and just see what happens in that five minutes.

You stay really connected to your body.

I'm not going to go through all of these examples because I did them in the last podcast,

But go back and listen to that one first.

There are many things.

I'll spend some time thinking,

What can I do?

What can we do together?

That would be really beneficial to helping us to start connecting a little bit more and a little bit deeper.

Okay.

This is really important for new relationships.

It's about getting in touch with what your stuff is.

Meaning,

Think back to your mom and your dad.

What was their relationship like?

Was your mother a narcissist?

Did your dad cheat on your mom?

Was your grandmother an alcoholic and you got dropped off at your grandmother's house twice a week when you were growing up?

All of these things affect your current relationship and it's your job to get in touch with your past.

Was your dad a rager?

How does that affect you now?

Maybe now you don't do anger really well.

You don't do emotions because you're afraid if you open up your emotions,

You're going to become a rager like your dad.

So it's really important when you have a relationship.

Even if you're not in a new relationship and you're just in a relationship and you've never done this before,

Think about how you were raised because I'm sorry to say,

But all of that is in you and it could be coming out in your current relationships.

We want to get curious and it's about educating yourself and others.

Okay.

So the other person that you are in a relationship with,

It is affecting them.

Nobody knows our wounding like we do.

It's our job to share our reality or our world with another person.

If we want to have a committed,

Connected relationship.

I am not saying to go back and blame parents or judge anybody.

I'm simply saying,

Go back,

Think about your past.

I'm not asking you to go to five years of therapy either.

This is something you can do by yourself.

What happened in your past,

You have to look at that if you want a connected relationship now because I promise you what happened in your past is affecting you now.

I promise,

Promise,

Promise.

And it's your job to share that reality with another so that they know.

Now we move into the next key,

Which I think is number three,

Triggers.

We get triggered oftentimes or most of the time if we're in a relationship with someone by another because of our old childhood wounding.

So if we don't know what our childhood wounding is or could be,

It's really hard to take responsibility for it and to transform it.

And we will be stuck in victim or blaming that other person and stuck in trigger.

When people come in and they're triggered and triggered and triggered and triggered and triggered by the person that they are in relationship with is a clear indicator.

There's a lot of childhood wounding that is being popped up every time that that triggers happening that that person is unaware of.

It's very important to look back at what happened with you so you know what's happening in your relationship.

Again,

When energy,

When you're communicating with someone else and things start speeding up in your mind and you feel yourself wanting to defend yourself,

Slow down.

You must do the opposite.

The prefrontal cortex is going to go offline and you're going to go into a defense.

So when you feel everything start to speed up and you're talking with someone or you're feeling triggered,

You can even put your hand,

Your whole hand and palm kind of like you're feeling someone's fever on their forehead.

Put your whole hand on your forehead.

There are a lot of neurovascular points all over your forehead that help you to calm down.

So walk away,

Hand on forehead.

When you're feeling triggered and you're with someone,

You must slow yourself down so you can share your reality and let them know what is going on with you.

If you are in a relationship or in a conversation with somebody and they're getting triggered,

Remember you're the conscious one and you're adult.

You can either choose to defend yourself,

Walk away,

Hand on forehead or you because you're in your adult will know that person is triggered.

So it's an unconscious belief being brought up in their awareness and they're triggered.

What can you do if you're wanting to change the dance with this person?

If you're wanting to improve this relationship,

Remember someone's got to go first and be the healthy one and demonstrate this.

So what you want to do is ask them questions.

If someone else is triggered,

Your job is to stay really calm and ask them questions like,

Can you help me please?

I want to understand what's going on with you right now.

What's happening?

I'm here for you.

Let me help you.

I'm here with you.

What's going on?

Not what's wrong with you.

Like feel the statement right now in your heart.

It's like,

Can you help me please?

I would love to understand what's going on.

Maybe I can help you.

Doesn't that feel good?

It's like my whole heart opens even saying it.

And then versus like tune into your body when I say,

What's wrong with you?

Why are you being such a bitch today?

I don't even understand.

I've done nothing wrong.

Why are you acting like this?

We want that other person that's having a trigger or a difficult time.

We want to help them get in their child,

Which is where vulnerabilities exist.

So we want to remain calm and slow talking to help them to come out of that trigger and out of that defense and start to open up with us.

I know I've shared this before,

But I grew up with a rager.

And when my husband would get angry,

I would shut down.

I mean,

When you're a little kid and you grew up with an uncle,

My dad's identical twin brother that was a rager,

I would shut down,

Freeze,

Leave my body all of the above.

It was scary because it was like explosive rage all over the place.

So when my husband would get angry,

It would trigger me into that old thinking.

And I would just freeze.

I would walk on eggshells.

I'd be scared to death.

But as I got healthier and I learned my adult,

What a healthy adult would do,

I was able to ask him,

What do you need when you're feeling off?

And he said,

I need you to hug me.

I need a hug.

So it's so interesting because he would be angry on the outside.

The defense is outside of us,

Trying to defend and keep everyone away.

But on the inside,

His little boy wanted a hug.

So I would have to get my adult when he would be upset about something and I'd walk straight up to him and say,

Would you like a hug?

And he'd say yes.

And then when I would hug him,

His whole body would melt.

I could feel the defense melting away.

That's what happens when we know what that other person needs.

This is why it's so important for us to know our stuff.

I know what I did for so many years when anyone would get angry around me.

I would freeze and lock up and leave my body.

So I had to learn that about myself.

So then as I'm going through life and I'm getting healthier,

I had to learn that when someone was angry,

I would know what to do.

So I would start to ground myself.

I would remind myself of the date.

In other words,

What year is it?

What's the month and what's the date?

I would remind myself,

I still do this,

How old I am today.

And I go,

Oh yeah,

Hold on.

I'm okay.

I'm healthy.

I'm not with Uncle Don.

Uncle Don is passed on.

He's not even here anymore.

But when we're triggered,

We go right back to that childhood wounding and we forget it's going into the unconscious adolescent chair.

So we have to remember where we are today so that then we can help that person that we are in relationship with also stay present.

So the next key here is stop fixing others.

Okay.

I was just working with a guy the other day and he's a doctor and he said he was really upset because his wife has really bad anxiety.

And he came in,

He says,

I don't know what's wrong with my wife.

She's not listening to me.

He said,

I've been trying so hard to help her with her anxiety and I give her diets to go on.

I've given her breath work and therapy suggestions.

I've given her your podcast.

She doesn't want to listen.

I've done all this research.

I know about anxiety and she is being so mean to me.

He says,

What else am I supposed to do?

I said,

Absolutely nothing.

In fact,

I want you to stop what you're doing.

And he was like dumbfounded.

He's like,

Why?

Why would I do that?

It's my wife.

I said,

Did she ever ask you for your help?

And he said,

He had to think and he goes,

No.

And I said,

You are in codependency.

Stop what you are doing.

And he says,

Yeah,

But you know,

She and I was like,

No,

Stop,

Stop,

Stop,

Stop.

I said,

In fact,

When you offer her all these suggestions,

You're sending her the message that she's broken and making her feel worse.

Stop what you are doing.

I said,

Unless she asked for your help,

You must back away.

I said,

You can offer to help and say,

Hey,

Would you like my help?

You didn't even do that.

You made the assumption that she needed your help.

You cannot do that.

That's codependent.

That's not going to help you.

So we need to stop fixing others that we are in relationship with unless they are,

Unless we ask for help.

Stop fixing.

It's codependent.

And it's not healthy.

And it does not help our relationships.

So it's hard for us to sit and watch another suffer with something like anxiety or anything.

But unless they ask for our help,

Don't offer.

Again,

You can say,

Is there anything I can do to help you?

I'm here for you.

But if they say no,

Thank you,

Then let it go.

The next topic is,

Again,

I'm not sure if I call this codependent,

Stop walking on eggshells or I'm in a relationship with a narcissist because there are so many things we can talk about here.

If you're changing your behavior to quote unquote help them or not get them triggered,

Stop it.

That's enabling.

Stop,

Stop,

Stop,

Stop,

Stop.

You do not change your behavior for another person to help them.

It's not helping.

That's a codependent behavior.

Please stop.

I spoke with a client yesterday about her partner getting so triggered when she would go,

This woman would go every other Wednesday to have coffee with a friend in the evening because she did not have her kids and she worked all day.

Every other Wednesday,

Her ex-husband had the kids.

So this woman,

Pat will call her,

Was going to have coffee with Lucy and Pat's husband was getting very upset.

So the night that Pat,

The night every other Wednesday when Pat would go have coffee with Lucy,

Pat would get home from having coffee and her husband would kind of be like stonewalling her,

Like really quiet,

Giving her the silent treatment,

Et cetera,

Et cetera.

So Pat was coming into me and she's like,

I don't know what to do.

I've asked him what's going on and he's telling me nothing when I get home,

But clearly he's upset that I'm going to have coffee with Lucy every other Wednesday night.

And she was saying,

She goes,

I'm even putting the kids to bed so we don't even go out till like 7.

30,

Eight o'clock at night is when I'm meeting Lucy and we're only out for two hours and then I'm home by 10,

10.

30.

And it's the only time I get to see her because she's really busy and she works all weekend,

Et cetera,

Et cetera.

And she said,

I don't know what to do because my husband just goes cold on me every other Wednesday night.

And she says,

I keep asking him what's going on and he says,

Nothing,

Nothing's wrong.

I'm fine.

And she says,

I think I should maybe stop going to coffee with Lucy.

I think that's really what's going on with him.

And I said,

Absolutely not.

I said,

I want you to continue to go have coffee with Lucy every other week because that brings you joy and you're doing nothing wrong.

And she says,

Yeah,

But he's getting so mad and stonewalling me.

Meaning stonewalling is like they're putting a wall up and they're just going silent and they won't talk.

Again,

It's not our job to fix another person.

So if you're stone,

If you are the stonewaller,

I'm going to yell at you and say,

Stop it.

It's your job to speak up for yourself.

If someone else that you're in a relationship with has hurt you,

It's your job to speak up about it.

Stop stonewalling.

But if you're in a relationship with a stonewaller,

Do not stop what you're doing because it's their job to speak up for themselves and say,

Hey,

I'm uncomfortable with you going out to coffee with Lucy.

But then there's a conversation about it.

Okay.

If you are the stonewaller and you're not sure what's going on,

But you've just shut down.

If the person that you are in a relationship with says,

Hey,

What's going on?

It's your job to say,

I'm not sure what's going on.

You might not say it like that because you're in a bad place.

Like I'm not really sure what's going on.

I'm going to sit with it or I'm going to,

I'll get in touch with it.

But I just want to let you know,

I don't think it's you,

But yeah,

Something happened and I'm just really triggered and I'm going to work on this.

Now,

If you're living or if you're in a relationship and this person is stonewalling you,

Remember we're the healthy ones here because we know how to live in our adult chair.

So it's our job to go up to them and say,

Hey,

Is there anything that I can do?

Remember these very soft,

Lovely open questions.

Is there anything I can do for you?

Can you help me understand what's going on?

I'd like to be here for you if you'd like me to be.

Like really soft,

Okay?

Not what the hell is your problem?

You men do not accuse us of being on our periods.

All of that stuff does not help.

Does not help with the stonewalling.

Does not help with the helping us to open up.

If you're a stonewaller,

Excuse me,

If you're in a relationship with a stonewaller,

They will never open up until they feel safe.

All these defenses are coming from the inner child,

Excuse me,

The adolescent chair,

But the inner child is the part of us that's having this really intense abandonment or neglect or whatever emotion that's coming up.

And then that adolescent part comes in with a defense and says,

Done,

I'm putting that wall up.

It's not healthy for sure.

However,

It's what we're doing right now.

So if you're in a relationship with someone like that,

We want to absolutely come at them with an open heart and open hands and seeing if there's anything we can do to help them to open.

So with my client though,

That was going to meet her friend every other Wednesday,

It's her husband's job to take care of his reality.

So if he's off and not in a good place,

It's his job,

His job to come to her and to say,

I'm uncomfortable with you going out.

Are you cheating on me?

Whatever he's thinking and feeling.

It's absolutely not her job to fix it.

It's his job to share his reality.

Okay.

Moving on.

When not to be vulnerable and open,

There are times moving on,

Like I said,

Do not be vulnerable with a narcissist or a sociopath or an emotionally abusive person.

Just because you are healthy does not mean that everyone else is healthy.

You absolutely do not want to share yourself,

Share your heart with someone that does not know what to do with it.

So what do I do if my mom,

Dad,

Boyfriend,

Partner,

Spouse,

Whomever is emotionally abusive?

End the relationship.

Especially if you're just with a girlfriend or a boyfriend and can get out easily.

Now I'm not going to go into a whole conversation about this or a whole talk on this,

But if your mom,

Dad,

Whomever is a narcissist or being emotionally abusive,

You must get away.

But a lot of people come to me and say,

Well,

It's my mom or my dad.

I can't end that relationship.

Well,

It's honestly your choice.

I work with a lot of people that have ended their relationships because they're very,

Very abusive.

But if you want to stay in a relationship with them,

You can,

But remember who that other person is and stop taking it personally because it's really not about you.

It's about them,

Their own wounding and their own internal issues that they're going through.

So I limit time with them and know this,

You can not fix them.

We typically want them to be healthy more than they do because they don't even know that they're unhealthy.

So remember that,

Stop fixing them or we can hope that they're going to change,

But stop trying to fix them.

It's not going to work.

Think about this.

Who's listening to this podcast right now?

Are you,

Or is that person that you're in a relationship with?

Are they working on themselves in some way?

Is your emotionally abusive person sitting next to you owning their reality?

This is key.

Are they owning their reality?

Are they apologizing?

Are they wanting to do this work and be in it with you or not?

Is it an act or is it a truth?

Because a lot of people say,

Oh yeah,

I'm working on myself.

BS.

I tell people to wait six months to a year.

If someone says they've changed,

Wait six months to a year to prove it.

You may want to think about ending that relationship with a girlfriend or a boyfriend again immediately.

I would suggest that you leave unless you are seeing true change with that person.

If someone is abusive,

Get out.

I just don't think a lot of these people can change unless they're owning their reality.

Give them this podcast or the last one and ask and then see what they say at the end.

If someone can own their reality and say,

Gosh,

You know,

That does sound like me.

That's a sign of change.

That's a sign of change.

You know,

I worked with this girl who was married to a narcissist and he's awful to her.

They have children together and he'll come pick up the kids.

He never says hello to her.

Unfortunately,

I hear this all the time.

But one day he showed up and she had so much hope because he had changed a little bit.

He was actually friendly with her.

And I said,

He ain't going to change.

And she said,

Yes,

I think he's different.

I said,

Because he picked up the kids once and he was nice to you.

And she says,

Yeah.

And I said,

I don't believe it.

I do not believe it.

And she says,

Well,

I think he changed.

Sure enough,

Two weeks later,

He was a total jerk to her again.

He was trying to get something from her.

It was a manipulative act.

So unless it's six months to a year,

Be careful how much energy and effort you put into those relationships because they're not going to change.

You know,

We have to ask ourselves,

Why do we stay with people that hurt us?

This is the internal work that we need to do.

Internal work.

To stay with someone that is emotionally abusive or unkind or controlling says to me,

It's time to do some internal work and get yourself strong and clear.

I worked with a girl recently and she said,

It's really weird.

My husband says he loves me,

But he wants to know my every move.

He's got this stupid tracker on my phone and he watches every penny I spend and he gets very upset with me when I spend something and I don't run it by him.

Or if I run to Target and buy something and he doesn't know that I'm going to Target,

He gets very upset with me,

But he just keeps telling me that it's love.

I was furious,

But I didn't let her see that.

I said,

How old are you?

And she said,

I'm 43.

And I said,

You are being abused.

This is abusive.

It is controlling.

This is not okay.

So we had to start doing a lot of internal work with her because what happens is with people that are abusive like this and manipulative and controlling,

The abuse happens little by little by little by little and they start out really lovely in the beginning and then there's a little bit of control,

But they spin it and say it's love.

That's called gaslighting.

Look that term up.

It's spinning the truth and making you feel like you're the crazy one.

I'm not controlling.

I'm just loving.

BS.

It's controlling,

Manipulative and abusive.

No one should have control over us in relationships.

That is abuse.

That is not a healthy relationship.

We have to wake up and if this is you,

Then go do internal work.

You need to find truth and find out who you really are and find your power and get out.

Who do we be vulnerable with?

This is another pointer here,

Another key.

Choose vulnerable people to be vulnerable with,

Okay?

Or that are striving to be vulnerable.

These are the people that we want to connect with and open ourselves up to.

Do not open yourself up to and think about it.

When we open up,

We're opening up our precious heart to others.

Don't open up to people that cannot do the same.

Do not do it.

Test the waters first.

Okay?

What happens when you say,

Let's have a healthier relationship?

What happens?

Does that person slam the door in your face?

Do they hang up on you?

How do they respond?

If they're not a narcissist or a sociopath or control freak or any of these things,

I honestly believe that these people can change if they want to.

They've got to want it.

Okay?

You have to be the adult and teach them how,

But if they want to,

Even a little bit in their opening of the door,

I feel like we have hope and anyone can change.

But be careful opening up your heart to people that cannot receive it.

Go slowly with this.

Just to go back to that woman I was speaking about earlier,

It's like,

Go slowly,

Hold his hand.

When I was talking about the woman in the beginning of the show,

I'd love to build a relationship with you.

Even if it's a friend,

It's like,

Hey,

Can we take,

I would love to start doing more with you.

It's like to,

You know,

It's about opening up to what your needs are,

Sharing things that are important to you.

If you're in a committed relationship,

It's just getting to know each other deeper,

But going slowly,

But knowing that that door can open in the heart space,

But they need to be willing to do that.

So if they're willing,

I have lots of hope.

If you keep opening up to somebody and keep trying and they keep slamming the door,

Keep slamming the door,

Keep slamming the door,

That tells me they have such fear around vulnerability.

They might not be able to do it.

Or perhaps you're living with,

Again,

Unfortunately a narcissist or someone that cannot because they have some sort of mental illness or something like that.

But I'm hopeful that most people can do this unless they have something like that going on.

Another key point,

Someone wrote in and asked this question,

Am I taking things too personally that have nothing to do with me or I am doing this?

How do we stop doing this?

And she had been triggered by her kids' responses to each other and she shamed them and got so upset and then she realized it didn't even have anything to do with her.

It had to do with her kids.

So when we're in relationships,

We just want to be careful what we give meaning to.

And when I read her example,

I was thinking,

It sounds like what I did a couple of weeks ago,

My son and my husband,

We were at dinner and my son and my husband were talking about sports.

And it went on for five or 10 minutes.

My younger son who's 18 loves sports,

Any kind of sports.

So I'm sitting there and I'm like,

Do do do,

Like,

Hello.

I would really enjoy being in this conversation,

But they were going on and on and on and on and I found myself giving what was going on a lot of meaning.

And I felt myself start to go fall into victim and go,

Well,

This stinks.

I don't even know why I came to dinner,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And here's the thing we must do.

We must stop the slide,

The unconscious adolescent chair slide,

I call it,

Because we do slide right into that victim.

And I started making up stories like,

I'm just going to get up and leave dinner.

This is ridiculous.

So what I did was I said,

Hold on in my head.

I said this,

Of course,

I'm not yelling out loud,

But I said,

Hold on,

Hold on,

Hold on.

Stop.

That's my adult.

And I said,

I'm going to be conscious.

I said,

What's true?

My son loves sports and I felt it in my body.

He loves sports.

Of course,

He's going to talk about sports once in a while.

The NFL draft is coming up and it's going to be in Nashville.

That's what my son was so excited about.

Okay.

That's true.

I started going through all these truths.

He's very excited.

He gave me a hug when he got home from school today.

I let that land.

He told me he loved me this morning when he left for school.

And I was like,

Yeah,

That's true.

And I was like,

Okay,

Period,

Done,

Over.

I'm back in my adult.

I'm not going to give anything meaning.

He's just really excited.

So I pulled myself out.

We have to slow down,

Get in our adult and pull ourselves out.

If we feel sucked into something,

We have to slow down and stop and remind ourselves what's true.

So here's a question that came in.

It was a really good one on jealousy.

And the question is,

What do I do with jealousy,

Et cetera,

Et cetera.

So from the adult share perspective,

Jealousy lacks trust and it contains fear,

Control and insecurities within the self.

So if you're experiencing jealousy,

Go deeper within yourself and find the answers.

There's a little kid inside of you that needs your attention with jealousy.

We have to go inside because the inner child,

Remember,

Is the part of us that trusts.

And if you can't trust,

That can lead to jealousy.

We oftentimes,

Or most of the time,

We take on what our parents taught us or inadvertently taught us when we're children.

So we take on their stuff,

Their beliefs,

Their programs,

And then we claim it as our own.

We have to get clear on if the jealousy is even ours.

Back of trust may be yours or you might've inherited it from your parents.

Again,

We don't know until we go inside and do some exploring.

We really need to go with what's fact and truth too with this one.

That's stepping into the adult chair.

So when we ask ourselves what's fact and truth,

We might say something like,

So what's true?

Has this person betrayed me in the past?

No.

Does this person and I have a really great relationship?

Yes.

Does this person call me when they get home?

Yes.

So we got to go through what's fact and truth.

Another thing that I say to a lot of my clients is,

Are you letting this land?

Are you letting the good land?

Remember I've talked about,

We don't want to catch the bad stuff.

We want to let the good stuff land.

And we're not good at doing that,

I find.

When someone pays us a compliment,

Do you let that land on you or do you say something like if someone says to you,

Oh my gosh,

I love your new car,

I love your new outfit,

I love your new fill in the blank.

Do you say thank you?

If you say thank you,

You're able to receive that compliment versus letting it fly by you and saying,

Oh,

This old thing,

I got it at Walmart or this old thing,

I got it at Target or oh,

That's a used car.

It's not even.

So the reason we want to pay attention to this when it comes to jealousy is when we let the good land,

What happens is we're actually opening up the heart space to catch the good stuff.

So when we look at,

Again,

We go back to fact and truth,

We might look at something like,

Well,

My new boyfriend,

He took me to dinner.

Did that land when you were at dinner?

Wow,

This person is taking me out to dinner,

They're paying for me,

They're having a nice time with me,

They're laughing,

We're having such a good time.

Are you in that moment really appreciating and letting all this good stuff land?

And when we grow up,

Again,

Sometimes with our parents stuff,

If we don't know how to trust,

Let's say,

We've taken on their beliefs or programs,

Our actual heart space might be a little bit closed down and we're not even able to receive this good.

So we want to start opening up that heart center.

It's actually called,

There's a chakra there,

It's a heart center.

It's where we give and receive unconditional love.

And if we're not good at giving or receiving unconditional love,

Then our heart center is a little bit closed.

So we just want to pay attention to what's going on in the heart.

And if it's landing,

If we're letting it in,

Are we letting that in?

What are we giving?

What are we receiving?

All of these things.

And that's very,

Very important when it comes to jealousy,

Because we want to be able to let the good in.

If that heart is opened up a little bit more,

Jealousy goes down.

Another great remedy for jealousy is really getting in touch with what's going on in the adolescent chair.

What part of us,

In other words,

Isn't trusting or is blocking that trust.

So if we look at what's going on in the adolescent chair,

We might even get a visual like there's a wall there.

We're thinking about trusting so and so there's a wall.

We want to look at that wall.

And we do that work from the adolescent chair place.

We just want to work with that one part.

Another thing is gratitude.

So going back to letting things land,

We really want to be grateful for what's going on in these moments when we're with this person.

And even when we're not with them,

We want to reflect back and say,

Wow,

I really appreciate when they brought me flowers,

When they've got my mail,

When they were on their way in the house,

When they took my garbage out,

Like the little things,

Let those things land and be grateful.

That starts to change jealousy.

Jealousy is just a program and it's very simple to shift and it only happens from within.

We don't want to go outside and change what someone's doing outside of us.

It's about going deeper on the inside and looking at what's going on there.

The very last thing I'm going to talk about right now is how we have healthy relationships or I should say creating healthy relationships.

Someone wrote in about this and said,

How do I bring in a healthy relationship?

So I most recently did a podcast called Calling in the One with Katherine Woodward Thomas.

I will put that in the show notes.

That was just a few podcasts ago.

That would be a great one.

But one thing we want to do for want to call in a new relationship or healthy relationship is we want to write down what we want in that relationship and visualize that relationship and let the emotions come up and through us that are enhanced or happening when we even have the thought of bringing someone like this in.

It's fascinating.

I've done this with other clients and I'll say,

I worked with one girl,

I think I've used it on the show before and she said,

I really want a new boyfriend.

I've been alone for such a long time.

I'm not suitable,

Let's think about what he'd be like.

And I had her write the qualities down because that pulls it out of the ethers and grounds it and brings it into our current reality.

Write it down,

Pay attention,

Recite it to yourself every single day.

I did that.

I created someone in 30 days when I was in my early 20s.

It really works.

What you think about comes about.

So what you're thinking and writing and rehearsing every day in your mind,

It really does manifest.

So be careful what you write down.

But when we enhance it with feelings.

So the girl I was working with,

I said,

So write down what you want.

She did.

I said,

Let's start imagining this guy coming over and you want him to come over after work.

Yes.

She had him come over and this is all in her mind.

And she came back the following week after we were going to have her new boyfriend come over in her mind three times that week.

And she came in the next week and I said,

How is it?

She started laughing and she said,

God,

He's annoying.

He wants to come over like five nights a week.

And I said,

Isn't that interesting?

You want a boyfriend so badly and he wants to come five days a week and you're annoyed and you only want him there twice.

So it helps us to get in touch with what we really want on,

Are we blocking anything?

So we oftentimes put up walls and block things we're not even aware of,

Which is why I go back to what I have said for years and years and years.

This is not conceited to say,

Nor is it selfish to say it's all about me.

If I don't know what's going on with myself,

How in the world do I know what I'm creating on the outside?

What my triggers are?

I need to always be in touch with what I'm thinking and what I'm feeling.

This is a wonderful exercise to do in order to know what you really want in a relationship and what you're creating and what you might be mis-creating.

So as much as she wanted someone in her life,

This girl,

What we realized is she doesn't want someone all that much.

She just might want to date someone part-time and not have a full-time boyfriend.

So we had to go in and look at that,

But we need to go inside of ourselves and find out what's going on in this inner programming.

So we know what we're creating,

Who we're creating and why we're creating it.

Okay.

What else do I want to say?

Oh,

I did a meditation.

It's on my website at theadultchair.

Com.

It's the 10 minute meditation for creating your heart's desire.

It would be a great one for helping you to create exactly what you are looking for as far as a new healthy relationship goes.

And even if you're not in a great relationship,

Start manifesting the good even with someone that you might be in a relationship and it's not that great and you want to make it better.

How do you want it to be?

We spend a heck of a lot of time focusing on what we don't want or what's wrong.

Start focusing on the good and start seeing the good before it's even happening.

We are that powerful.

I promise you,

I do this every day.

You would be amazed at what will start showing up in your reality.

So try that meditation,

The 10 minute meditation for creating your heart's desire.

Okay.

I'm going to end now because I could keep going.

It's a lot.

I know I covered today.

I hope you all enjoyed it.

I am really hoping that this helps you with relationships and really creating a healthy relationship or getting out of one that's maybe not so healthy that you need to get out of.

So I hope that this has been helpful.

There's a lot of information I will be putting in the show notes,

Lots of referencing like that other podcast was number 146,

As well as this meditation and Catherine Woodward Thomas calling in the one.

I'll put all that in the show notes for you guys,

As well as I will put the link for again,

The adult chair workshop.

So the adult chair.

Com forward slash workshop.

Check that out in the new membership site.

We'd love to have you in there chitchatting with us about your adolescent chair.

We know there's a lot to talk about there and that's at the adult chair.

Com forward slash membership.

That's all I've got for you guys.

I am out of breath and you're probably done listening to me,

Which is fine.

It's been a long one today,

But I hope you really found it enjoyable.

I always love talking to you all.

So I will see you next week seated firmly right here in the adult chair.

Reviews

Really interesting and helpful thank you 🙏 🥰

Excellent information. I so enjoy your podcasts and the lessons.
Thank U!!

She has a very powerful message. I love that she includes naming abusive relationships and that her suggestion is to leave these relationships—to get yourself out of them immediately lif it’s a boyfriend/girlfriend.

I just want to share this with all the people in my life! So many great explanations, insights, and examples

Amazing. Thank you so much for covering all these important topics such as narcissism, jealousy, codependency and so on. Very helpful and insightful. 💜🙏🥰

Wow!
Thank you Michelle
I learned so much listening to your Podcast.💕

Excellent! Michelle thank you so much for sharing this on Insight Timer. I’ve been a clinical psychotherapist for many years, do a lot of work with couples, as well as working with professional women living in abusive relationships with narcissists and you have nailed it! As a firm believer in the Universe’s perfect timing, I was thrilled to listen and share this with a client who just today began to accept the fact that she’s been in an emotionally and mentally abusive marriage for 40+ years and that it might actually be possible that she isn’t the “crazy one”. Blessings to you for all the kindness, peace and awareness you bring to the world! Namaste 🙏✨💓

Really great! Both part 1 and part 2 were so helpful. The last several podcasts have really been fantastic.

Zeer interessant. Aanrader als je meer over adult chair en (gezonde) relaties wil weten. Het gaf mij tips, voorbeelden, verdieping, inspiratie en het heeft me verrijkt. Veel interessante informatie; binnenkort nog eens luisteren!

Very interesting. I recommend this podcast if you like to know more about the adult chair and (healthy) relationships. It gave me tips, examples, increased my knowledge gave inspiration, and enriched me.

Will listen to it again; it was a lot to take in.

Thank you

So much to learn from this. I need to listen a few more times, and perhaps make some notes. Love it - thankyou!

Great Podcast...thank u!! Wish I lived in Nashville!

Wow, super insightful! Thank you for offering such wise guidance 💖

Thank you very much
I enjoyed this podcast, and I feel I have a relationship with you which I’m very blessed and grateful for🙏

I especially like the bit about what to do when other person is unconscious. Also when a parent is narcissistic. 🙏❤️

Made so much good sense thank you

Another great podcast! I listen to you at least every weekend. Thank you for the wonderful work you do Michelle! ❤️🙏❤️🙏

Thank you! Very helpful and lots of food for thought!

So helpful ~thank you!