Healing Ancestral Trauma, Limiting Beliefs & Patterns

In this episode I explore the transformative world of healing ancestral trauma, limiting beliefs, and patterns with the incredible Alyse Bacine. Alyse is a spiritual mentor and breathwork practitioner whose journey into the realms of deep healing and spiritual growth is both inspiring and profound.

Transcript

Hi,

I'm Michelle Chalfant,

Psychotherapist,

Holistic life coach,

And human,

Just like you,

Learning to navigate life's challenges.

With over 25 years experience,

I teach people how to get healthy using the adult chair model.

The adult chair model is where simple psychology meets grounded spirituality,

And it teaches us how to become healthy adults.

From anxiety and depression to codependency and relationship issues,

You can use the adult chair for just about anything.

Each week,

I share practical tips,

Tools,

And advice from myself and a wide range of experts on how to get unstuck,

How to live authentically,

And how to truly love yourself,

All while sitting in your adult chair.

Welcome to the adult chair podcast.

Hello,

Hello,

My friends.

Welcome to the adult chair.

My name is Michelle Chalfant.

I am very much looking forward to having my very special guest on the show today.

Her name is Elise Bessin,

And we are talking all about kind of a hot topic these days.

I hear this from so many people,

Ancestral trauma.

Yes.

How do you know if you have this?

We got into this and we talked in depth about breath work as well.

She has this really cool process that she's going to walk us through.

Here's the thing.

Do you ever find yourself in having these unexplained fears or beliefs and you're thinking,

Where the heck did this come from?

I don't remember my parents talking like this or my friends.

I just don't know why I have this fear.

It could be ancestral trauma.

I think you're going to love this show because we get into this and you would not believe how much this affects your life,

But we got into so much more.

I'm just going to welcome to the show right now,

Elise Bessin.

Here we go.

So welcome to the adult chair podcast,

Elise Bessin.

Thank you for having me.

I'm excited to be here.

I'm excited to have you.

You're an interesting gal.

I like all the things you do.

You're speaking my love language.

I was reading through this.

I'm like,

Oh,

I like this.

This is going to be fun.

We're talking about some fun stuff today.

Tell us a little bit,

A little bit about who you are and how you got to be where you are today.

Okay.

So my name is Elise Bessin.

I'm a spiritual mentor and breath work practitioner.

And let's see where it's,

You know,

It's kind of a lifelong journey,

But I always say it really started when I was 19,

Which is when I discovered breath work.

So I was in college and I was struggling with an eating disorder and anxiety.

And I just was looking for answers and I found yoga and I started working at a yoga studio and it was there that I discovered breath work.

And I don't know what it was about breath work,

But it just drew me in.

And I literally did every single breath worker training program that was available here.

Here in Philadelphia,

We have a great breath work community.

So I just dove in.

I did four breath worker training programs,

A teacher training program.

I followed different teachers all around and I just became immersed in breath work.

And I started taking on clients,

You know,

When I was in my early twenties and I would lead groups,

You know,

Here around the city.

And so breath work has always been a very huge part of my life now for more than half of my life.

So it's something I've always taught and it's always been something I've done on the side,

But I don't think at the time when I was in my early twenties,

I was ready to start a business.

So I became a school counselor.

I have a master's degree in counseling psychology.

I was a school counselor for 10 years.

And then in late 2019,

I had a very strong nudge.

I had known for a long time I needed to do more than just be a school counselor.

I knew I was meant to do more.

And then in 2019,

I had a very strong nudge that I needed to do something else.

So I started working with a coach and pretty quickly figured out it was time to start my business and I started it and you know,

The beginning of 2020 and it coincided with COVID.

So in March of 2020,

I went home from school and then I never went back.

And you know,

Since January of 2021,

I've been full time in my business and it's just grown exponentially in so many ways,

Not just financially,

But just with the work that I do.

I've developed my own breathwork methodology that I teach in my certification program that involves clearing trauma,

Familial and ancestral,

And my own breathwork method and energy work method.

So it's just,

You know,

Evolved in so many ways.

So yeah.

And then I also help people,

Women start businesses,

Which is not something I ever thought I would be doing,

But I do that as well.

So yeah,

It's,

It's been a very transformative last three or four years.

I love all of this for something,

I'm just going to bring up a term that I've been using a lot this year,

Soul alignment.

So what I,

When I'm listening to you,

I'm thinking this chick got in line with what she was always here to do.

And you really followed your heart probably when it was really scary sometimes to do so,

But you like you,

For those of you that looking on YouTube,

She just gave a really like,

Oh,

Hell yes.

Kind of like on her face,

But yeah.

And you don't know,

You haven't,

I don't know that you've listened to my podcasts,

But I had been talking a lot about in January.

I took this little mini break from podcasting for the last three months.

I jumped off of podcasting and jumped off of social in order to do exactly the soul alignment.

I felt this deep call inside of myself.

And I'm listening to you like,

Hey,

Hey sis,

You did the same,

You and I are very aligned in that.

So it was hard,

Huh?

But you followed what you were feeling on the inside.

And I,

And I'd like to talk about that just for a minute,

Because I think this is really happening a lot on our planet where,

And I love to hear your terminology,

But it doesn't line up with mine.

I want to hear what your take on this is,

But on our planet right now,

We are more than ever are feeling this internal call to whatever it might be like you,

I'm not,

I didn't,

You just said,

I didn't go back to school.

I decided to do this and it,

You know,

I didn't even plan on ever doing this,

But here I am now doing this.

Can you talk about what that was like for you?

Because so many of us are in that space of feeling this call of shit,

What,

What,

I don't know what's going on,

But I feel like I got to make a big right turn right here in my life.

Yeah,

Absolutely.

And I work with so many women who are in that same place.

And you know,

I think for me,

It was almost something that I couldn't really ignore.

And I think because I had had such an extensive background with breath work from such a young age,

It made it easy for me to say,

Okay,

I know I have this thing.

And I know that this is something that I can teach people and I can do with people.

So that was helpful for me because it laid this foundation because I work with a lot of women who are like,

Okay,

No,

I need to make a change.

I'm just not sure what it is I'm going to do,

Or,

You know,

If I started a business,

What it is I'm going to do.

Actually they do,

By the way,

They just haven't like admitted it to themselves yet,

But,

But I feel like that's kind of a thing that comes up for people too,

Is like,

What am I going to do?

Or kind of like,

Who am I to do this?

So that was definitely something that came up for me.

And then,

You know,

For me,

I feel like there was a lot of,

You know,

To bring in the ancestral trauma,

Like we talked about before,

It felt like there was a lot of that that came up for me too,

Around just going in a different direction than my family.

You know,

When I was a school counselor,

My parents were both teachers.

They both worked in the school district of Philadelphia.

I was a school counselor working in the school district of Philadelphia.

As much as I had done all this spiritual work and personal growth work there,

I was still doing the exact same thing as my parents.

So,

You know,

To break out of that was scary in itself because,

You know,

I,

That was the life that I knew and I had never really known anything else from my own career and just watching my parents.

So that was scary for me to make that leap and like not have a paycheck.

And you know,

It almost felt like I was doing something wrong.

Like I had that feeling in my,

In my bones,

Like,

Oh my gosh,

I'm doing something wrong.

Or does this mean I'm a bad mom?

You know,

I have two kids.

They were younger at the time too.

And so a lot of that stuff came up.

And then of course that kind of imposter syndrome of like,

Who am I to do this or can I really do this?

So,

You know,

I think I had to move through a lot of that.

But I think for me,

Because of,

You know,

A lot of the work I had already done and my deeper understanding of trauma,

Just in the way that I understand it,

But also,

You know,

Having 10 years of experience working with traumatized children,

I'm really understanding it.

I was able to move through it.

I think quickly because of my understanding around,

Like I knew what was happening,

Even though it was still scary and it was still painful at times,

I had a context for what was happening.

So I knew it didn't mean just because I was scared or just because I was experiencing,

You know,

Blocks,

So to speak.

I knew that it didn't mean I should stop.

I just knew that I was facing things that I had to walk through.

So I think that was really helpful for me.

But I do notice a lot of women experience very similar things when they start walking this path.

Yeah.

So for people that are listening,

What are some of those things that they're experiencing?

So I think a lot of it is around fear,

You know,

And what I noticed too,

Is there's these few big fears that a lot of women have,

And a lot of it is around the fear of being seen,

You know,

And it'll always be disguised as,

Well,

I just hate social media.

I just don't want to do social media.

And I'm like,

No,

You're just afraid of being seen.

So true.

This is so true.

I agree with you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's a big one,

I think.

And then also the fear of what other people are going to think.

I think that is a really big one.

And that came up for me a lot.

I mean,

I still have that come up.

Like I still will be like,

Oh,

That person probably thinks I'm crazy or whatever,

You know.

But I don't care as much anymore,

Obviously.

But I think that's a really big one too.

And then also,

You know,

I think a lot of women too kind of associate losing something like,

Oh,

Am I going to lose my relationship?

Or am I going to lose my friends?

Or if I gain this and if I choose me,

Then what am I going to lose?

Because we spend so much of our lives doing what we think other people want us to do or what we think we're supposed to do.

So it's almost like we're choosing that norm of feeling connected to other people through doing what we're expected to do.

So then we think if we choose ourselves,

Then we're going to lose all of that.

And in some ways that can be true.

Like sometimes we do lose relationships or friendships,

But what we gain is so much more than that,

That it's okay.

Yeah.

You said so many great things here.

When someone is starting to feel that,

I always,

The terminology that I use is when we feel moved to do something,

It comes from the body,

Right?

It comes from the heart.

Do you find that also then,

Of course,

The ego is going to pop up and throw all that fear at us.

Get you out of your mind.

People are going to think you're crazy,

Yada,

Yada,

You know,

All the things that ego says.

So we need to hold hands with the ego and go,

Yep,

Thank you.

And then we just keep on going.

Right.

And then you found though,

Again,

I would call it soul line murder,

Or this is what I need to be doing.

And it starts feeling so great,

Doesn't it?

When you actually take that step forward,

It's like jumping off a cliff and you're thinking Is the cliff like,

You know,

150 stories or is it just two steps down?

And I think we think it's like jumping off the Empire State Building.

And then when we take that step off,

Oh,

It's just two steps down,

But the ego makes us feel like it's the Empire State Building jumping off the top of that.

But yeah.

So did you have that too?

Like,

Gosh,

It just starts feeling,

You gain momentum around the feeling that it feels so good.

And that feeling that moves you gets bigger and bigger.

And then that ego fear just starts getting smaller and smaller.

And I think a lot of people get blocked by their fear because they're saying,

Well,

I have fear.

So that means I shouldn't do it.

That's not true.

Right.

Talk about that.

Yeah.

So the fear is actually just what's kind of holding you where you are.

It doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it,

But it can feel that way because so much fear is actually a trauma response.

Right.

And our body and our psyche is actually really miraculous in the way that it tries to protect us from getting hurt again.

Right.

So if we associate being if you associate being yourself with getting hurt because maybe in childhood when you fully expressed yourself,

You were told that you needed to be quiet or that you shouldn't say that or that that was stupid or whatever it was.

Right.

Right.

Right.

So if you associate fully being yourself with getting hurt,

Then there's going to be a trauma response around that.

We're going to have fear around that.

But the only way through that is to walk through the fear.

Right.

And and there are so many great ways of supporting you with that.

Right.

I wouldn't recommend just like running through on your own and you know,

Because that could lead to just like your nervous system totally like losing it,

You know.

So getting support around it and also one of my biggest tools,

Obviously,

Like I said,

Is breath work,

Which can be very,

You know,

So there are ways to support you and walking through the fear.

But it's very important just to understand that that is what's happening.

And it doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it.

It just means that that you feeling that fear is necessary in order for you to keep moving forward.

Love that.

OK.

So how do we know if we have ancestral trauma or,

You know,

Any trauma,

Whether it's ancestral trauma?

I mean,

Let's define that for the audience.

But whether it's trauma from my childhood or again,

Define,

Define all the trauma.

Let's start there.

And then how the hell do we know that we have it?

And we're walking through life with all this trauma that we don't know about.

OK,

So I would say I'll start with ancestral trauma.

So we mostly everyone has ancestral trauma.

It is just trauma that's passed down through the ancestral lines.

But let me just like back up and define trauma as well,

Because sometimes people can tend to think it's like this one catastrophic event or this one horrible thing that happened.

And it's not.

I define trauma as anything that was overwhelming to you on an emotional or physiological level that you couldn't fully process.

And that can happen as an adult or a child.

So anything that happens that was impactful to you in a way where you didn't feel safe or you didn't feel like you could fully understand what was happening.

So you contracted and you suppressed the emotion.

And then sometimes to the point where something happens and it was too painful for you to fully process.

So you compartmentalize it or a part of you kind of splits off and is kind of holding this this trauma or this pain in this place.

Right.

So trauma is another coping mechanism.

Like I said,

It's just a way for us to move through life without having to constantly remember this thing that was painful.

So that's what trauma is.

So also,

We are a culmination of those who came before us.

And this has been proven through epigenetics and all of these things now.

But the thoughts and beliefs and imprints that our ancestors carry,

Even our parents and their parents and the ones who came before them,

That does get passed on to us.

And it will be more of like an energetic imprint versus,

You know,

You're not going to remember everything that happened to your grandmother,

Obviously.

That's not how it works.

But it'll be more of like an energetic imprint around,

You know,

Scarcity or fear or war or dying or,

You know,

Those those types of things.

These bigger archetypal energies will usually be the texture of ancestral trauma versus familial trauma will be more relational or more around events that occurred within the family dynamic.

But what I will say,

Too,

And what I find not always,

But usually if we address the familial trauma,

We will address a lot of the ancestral trauma because we will recreate within the family those same energetic patterns.

So if we address them in the family,

A lot of the ancestral stuff will kind of come along with that,

Although there will be other things that are separate,

Like,

You know,

The example that I shared when I started my business,

There was a lot of ancestral stuff that came up,

You know,

Just around like lack and scarcity and these bigger,

More archetypal energies,

Like I said.

So it's important to understand the difference.

But what I always say to people is you don't need to go digging around,

Like,

Don't now be like,

OK,

I have to go figure out what my ancestral trauma is.

You know,

When you are meant to address it,

You'll know it'll be right in your face.

So you don't have to worry about that.

So it's such a good point because I've had people ask me now I need to start working on everything.

I'm like,

No,

Yeah,

You'll know.

Wait till it right.

You'll know because something's you're going to get triggered.

Something's going to rise up and then look at it.

So what are some signs,

Though?

And I love everything you said about the difference between family,

Familial trauma versus ancestral.

Really great points.

But how do I know?

Give us some of those signs around both.

Absolutely.

So the simple way that I like to put it is if there is something that you are desiring or something you're wanting to create or something that you're wanting to move towards and it's not happening and it feels like you're kind of running in place or whatever it is that you're wanting to do is not happening.

There is most likely some kind of trauma or wounding or thing that you need to look at in order to get to the other side.

So,

You know,

Like we were talking about before with like the fear of,

You know,

Starting the business or whatever,

You know,

It can feel like it just you're just stuck or you can't move forward.

But really,

There's something there that you're being invited to look at that can feel like it's just like,

Oh,

This isn't working or I keep having roadblocks or I keep feeling like I'm running in place.

Really you're being invited to look at something,

Heal something or reconcile something like and another example of this would be around relationships.

So,

You know,

A lot of our relational trauma from childhood,

We will recreate in our,

You know,

Romantic relationships,

Obviously,

That's not a secret to anyone.

So when we,

You know,

Get into a relationship with someone who is representative to us of a lot of these relational dynamics and wounding from childhood,

It is not because there's something wrong with you and you just pick the wrong people because your father was emotionally unavailable or whatever it is.

It's actually an opportunity for you to reconcile it,

That your unconscious subconscious mind has has created for you.

It's just about knowing how to utilize it as that,

Right,

Instead of thinking,

There's just something wrong with me and I pick the wrong people,

Right?

It's more like,

Oh,

This is actually an opportunity for me to heal and reconcile the younger part of me who was hurt by this,

By these,

You know,

Ideas that I created about myself and the world based on this relationship.

So now I have the opportunity to heal it.

So it's about just being able to look at what's happening differently from that lens of trauma so that you can move through it and,

And know that it's not just a block,

It's actually an opportunity or an invitation.

I love what you just said again,

Because something that I say,

I preached this for many years that triggers are a gift and you're saying the same thing basically,

Which is,

And you said this numerous times,

I wrote it down.

This is happening for you,

For you,

For you just kept saying that.

And it's true when we have these patterns that show up or we're triggered,

I feel like it's something,

A belief,

A pattern,

Something that's rising up out of the unconscious mind on a silver platter in front of us.

And we have the opportunity to say,

Yeah,

You know,

I don't want to work with that or wait a minute.

And I never invite anyone to beat up on themselves about it.

It's like,

Oh my God,

There's something in here.

It's rising up for me that I didn't know.

Let me look at it.

Let me take a good look at it.

And I love this,

The patterns.

I know that you said,

Most people know that,

You know,

We attract in relationships to,

You know,

Bring up our childhood wounding.

Not everybody.

So she taught,

I mean,

I know it's imago therapy,

You know,

I know,

I,

I agree with you,

But I want to talk about that because I think people do forget that.

And I feel like we need to talk about it.

I had,

When I used to see clients,

I remember I had a girl,

She literally moved to Australia.

She's like,

I don't want to marry anyone like my father and moving.

And she lived in the United States.

She moved all the way to Australia.

And she called me,

She goes,

We were doing phone sessions.

She's like,

You're not going to freaking believe this.

I met this guy.

He looks nothing like my dad.

He comes from this totally different background,

Different family,

Yada,

Yada,

Yada.

And what,

And here's the thing that I want people to remember.

They may show up and act differently,

But the feeling that it is creating within us is exactly like what we experienced in childhood.

So again,

That person looks different.

They,

They,

They might whatever,

But whatever they're doing is bringing up that emotion within us.

That is how relationships relationships show up for us so that we can heal,

Take,

Let's start,

Let's start here.

We can take a look at if we want to,

The childhood wounding,

The trauma,

The ancestral,

Whatever it is,

Look at it.

Don't beat up on yourself and go,

Okay,

It's here.

And now what do I do with it?

So take us from there.

So I'm noticing that I'm in this relationship,

This person brought it up and it could even be a friend.

Maybe it's not a romantic,

A romantic relationship,

But let's say that it is,

This has come up for me.

I'm feeling less than I'm feeling unworthy,

Whatever it is.

What do I do now?

Okay.

I love this.

And I just want to say,

I actually like a lot of the trauma tools that I have developed give you the,

The way for you to use your relationships in this way,

Right?

Because once you understand what your wounding was from childhood and what were some of those core wounds and core beliefs that you have,

Then the relationship just becomes such a fertile ground for you to shift it if you know how to utilize it,

Right?

So,

So yeah.

So,

You know,

So is there like a step process you can walk us through then?

Yeah,

For sure.

So start us.

I love what you just said.

Start us there.

Like what do you do first?

And then we work with a relationship.

That's good stuff right there.

Yeah.

Okay.

So the way that I do it with people is we look at three main things first,

Which will be your birth story,

Which is the circumstances surrounding your birth from conception to three months old.

So I look at that,

Which is,

You know,

Usually what was happening with your mother?

What was your parents' relationship like?

What was your mother going through while you were developing in the womb?

Because that will directly impact your psyche.

And then also actually when you came into the world,

Like what was that experience like?

Because all of that will create a psychological or like physiological imprint and a lens through which you see the world.

So we always look at that first.

And sometimes,

A lot of times,

Actually,

So much of this information is in the subconscious because obviously we're not remembering this,

Right?

So that's why I use the breath work with people to help them move through.

And if there's anything that they need to know or remember about this time,

The breath work will bring it out from the subconscious so that they can shift it.

So I look at birth story,

And then we look at your relationship with your mother and your relationship with your father.

And we just look at these overarching patterns of energy,

And then we draw the parallels between what was going on in those relationships and then what's going on now.

And this is not always literal,

Right?

So I think it's important to understand that it's like,

Not like,

Well,

My mom treated me like this,

And now this is happening.

It could,

There's so much nuance to it.

And that's why it takes a little bit of digging,

And it's also an ongoing process.

But an example would be based on your relationship with your mother and what you witnessed in her and how she perceived the world and how she perceived herself,

A lot of that we can take on from her.

So it's not just about the way you related to her.

It's also about her level of consciousness,

How she related to herself in the world and how we take that on.

So we're looking at also the beliefs you created about who you are and what kind of place the world is based on the modeling from those people.

And then also any other impactful traumatic relational dynamics over time that you would recreate in an effort to reconcile.

So an example would be if your mother had narcissistic tendencies and she was making everything about her and you were more in that people-pleasing role or kind of bracing for something bad to happen and making sure that everyone's okay,

That kind of thing,

You would then create a relationship where your partner might be more volatile and you're the one who's kind of always trying to make sure that everyone's okay and abandoning your own needs to mitigate the situation and make sure that you're safe by making sure that everyone else is okay,

Like classic codependency,

Right?

So you could essentially then create a partner who represents this deeper relationship with your mother and the wounding around that,

Right?

And obviously it's not like,

It's more of your relationship with your mother that is representative in your partner.

So it would just be then,

So then,

Right?

So we know that,

Right?

We know what that deep wounding is and we pinpointed that.

So then we want to,

Obviously I walk through my clients through spending some time with that wounded part of them,

Their inner child and whatever age that was,

And just giving her a voice and letting her be part of the conversation.

Because a lot of what happens is,

And this is a big mistake that people make when it comes to trauma,

Is we look at our trauma,

We look at what happened as a child through the adult lens.

So what ends up happening is we look at it as we are now and we say,

Oh,

Well,

I understand why my mom did that.

You know,

My father was working a lot and she was really upset.

So we look at what happened and we kind of excuse it or we understand it intellectually.

So then we bypass the deeper emotional work because we're not allowing that child version of us to actually come forward and say,

No,

Actually this made me feel like I wasn't good enough,

Or this made me feel like I wasn't important,

Or this made me feel like there was something wrong with me,

You know?

And that's the feeling that I internalize and that is a thing that hurt me so much.

And that's why I keep recreating it in my relationship.

So we need to spend some time there with the younger version of you,

Even if it seems silly or one of the other things that people have trouble with is making their parents wrong or saying,

You know,

I felt this way.

That's hard for people.

It's hard for people to say,

You know,

I was verbally abused or whatever it is.

It's hard for people to say that,

But in order to reconcile,

We have to give that child a voice and experience what she or he experienced from that lens so that we can,

You know,

Kind of bring him or her out of the shadows and into the fold.

So there's no longer,

It's no longer being compartmentalized.

So we have to do that step first.

And then what we can do is inside of your current relationship,

You then become very aware of the texture of energy of that pattern or that wounding.

And you can notice when it's coming up inside the relationship when you're feeling that way.

And then you get to handle that within yourself instead of making it about the other person and being like,

Oh,

Why does my husband always do this?

Why does he always talk to me that way?

This actually has nothing to do with him and everything to do with you.

So if you can notice that you're in that pattern and be able to talk to your inner child in those moments.

And then I have another process that I teach people on just how to shift your energy from the pattern into the present day version of yourself that you desire to be.

I have this little process that I teach them to shift their energy.

And then you can notice when you're there and then shift your energy into present time and be able to show up with your partner in a way that is actually a contribution to both of you instead of recreating old patterns.

And usually your partner will have a similar pattern that you're playing out with them.

Obviously,

It's always perfect like that.

So they're usually experiencing some version of this as well.

So many things I want to ask.

That was phenomenal.

Thank you.

So good.

You know,

I've come across a lot of people that do judge their younger selves.

I was 15 and they're 45 now and they're saying,

Well,

When I was 15,

I did blah,

Blah,

Blah.

And I'll never forgive myself for that.

And let's,

I typically take them back in a timeline.

I'm like,

Let's slide back in time because you,

You may,

We always do the best we can.

Right.

So I love that.

I love that part of your,

This is phenomenal.

I love everything you said.

So you said your relationships can change.

And what I'm curious about is when we change the relationship changes,

Correct?

How does that happen?

Yes.

I love this question.

I love talking about this because,

You know,

I'll often have a new client come and say,

Well,

Do you think I need to,

You know,

Leave my husband?

Do you think this is what this means?

And I'm like,

It doesn't matter.

That's not the question we need to ask right now,

Because once we shift things,

Either your relationship will get way better or it will fall away.

And either way,

You'll be really happy about it.

So it doesn't matter.

That's not actually the question,

But I will say nine times out of 10 for what I've seen,

I've seen a lot of women who've changed and their relationships just got better,

Including myself.

So that does happen because once we stop playing out these patterns inside the relationship,

Both people get the chance to elevate beyond those old ways of operating into a different way of being with each other.

And then once you shift out of these old patterns,

What happens is you're not even available for your partner to hook into it.

So there's like nowhere for them to.

It's almost like if you're driving down a parking lot and there's no spaces,

Like there's nowhere to pull in.

You know what I mean?

It's the exact same thing.

So once you elevate beyond it,

Then you are just automatically inviting your partner to meet you at this new level of interaction,

This new level of connection,

This new level of conversation.

And the cool thing too is,

You know,

I will have this question a lot from my clients as well.

I'm evolving.

But what if,

You know,

I see my partner is still struggling with this thing or they're still struggling with this trigger or this trauma?

And one of the things I always say,

And obviously,

You know,

They need to do their own work too.

And also,

It's very important that both people are wanting to grow in the relationship.

That's obviously important.

But if that is the case,

And you know,

You have a partner who's still struggling with something,

One of the practices that I think is incredibly powerful is to practice looking at them as elevated beyond that.

So you're not looking at them as,

Okay,

Well,

They still have this problem or this trigger,

Because when you look at them that way,

You're actually holding them in that frequency.

But if you look at them as already evolved or already able to meet you in a certain place or already at a different frequency,

It automatically on an energetic level,

Just invites them to rise into that.

And then you get to meet each other there.

So beautiful.

And I love that you addressed that question because people have asked me that for years as well.

Like,

What do I do?

I'm outgrowing them.

How do I help them along?

It's not about them.

Stay with yourself.

I love this.

Love this.

So breathwork,

Talk to us a little bit about breathwork.

Do you want to do a little sample?

If you want me to,

I can,

For sure.

I can tell you a little bit about the breathwork that I do,

And then just kind of how that has evolved.

And then,

Yeah,

I can show you a little bit too.

I know it'll probably be easier for people if they're watching on video versus listening,

But I'm sure they can get the idea.

So the breathwork that I was trained in since I was 19 is called conscious connected breathing.

It's a very simple and gentle breathing technique that you breathe in and out through the mouth in a circular pattern with no space between the inhale and the exhale.

So it's very gentle,

Which is what I enjoy about it.

And it's something that is more around working with the body instead of forcing anything.

So over time,

I developed my own methodology that's based in that,

Which also consists of me channeling and creating these different breathwork sessions that are intentionally geared towards an outcome,

Right?

So I have one for the birth story,

One for the mother wound,

One for the father wound,

And I have a million of them at this point for various things.

So I'm really just tuning into the frequency of what the intention is of the breathwork.

And then I guide people in that way to access higher states of consciousness and healing through the breath.

And the way that I teach the breath that I feel very strongly about is,

Like I said,

It's about working with the body.

And I believe that the body has its own natural intelligence and will naturally want to heal.

We just need to give it the space and the container to do that.

So that's what I feel like we're doing with the breathwork is we're giving it that space and container to heal in the way that it desires to.

So we're just moving the energy through the breath and connecting to the present moment through the breath,

Clearing whatever needs to be cleared through the breath without having to force it or control it.

And it's always perfect and it's always a beautiful outcome.

And people will experience varying degrees of miracles,

Whether it's releasing ancestral trauma or connecting to various creative ideas.

It's been such a blessing for me in my business because so much of my ideas and the things I'm sharing in my business comes through just me breathing and accessing my channel and letting things come through.

So it's just such a powerful way to connect with your higher self,

Your soul.

And like I listened to one of your most recent episodes earlier,

And you were talking about listening to that voice from your soul.

And I feel like this is such a great vehicle to do that because it really so quickly brings you into the present moment,

Which is very important in connecting with that and connects you in with the field of infinite possibility.

So you're really getting to expand what you think is available to you and expand your idea of what's possible.

And I think one of the great things about it too is people just experience such momentum with it.

They start moving really quickly,

Which I love because I love when people get to move quickly.

So it's really powerful in that way as well.

And then also,

A lot of times you can clear and release things and you don't even have to know what they are.

It's not like you have to remember every single thing that's happening during it.

You just can feel a sense of a huge weight was lifted and you don't have to know exactly what it is that shifted.

And if you're meant to know,

You'll know.

So it's really wonderful in that way.

I know when I was going through my whole process,

Like around Christmas in January,

When I was having a hard time,

I would stop and breathe because that's what we don't do.

And that's what we need to be doing because it keeps moving the energy and moving our process through whatever we're processing.

We tend to automatically or unconsciously do the opposite when we need it the most,

Right?

Yes.

We just contract or constrict and we don't breathe.

Yeah.

So as far as the breath goes,

Is it always through the mouth like a Wim Hof kind of breath?

It's different than Wim Hof.

I'll show you what it looks like.

We do use the mouth only because the mouth,

You can get a lot more air going in and out that way.

So it can move a lot more energy,

But it's a lot more gentle.

So it's just in and out through the mouth in a circle.

So this is what it looks like.

So just super simple.

And yeah,

You're just breathing in and out through the mouth.

The point is you start to find this rhythm with it,

Right?

Where all of a sudden the breath is breathing you almost,

You don't have to think about it anymore because there's this thing that happens that you drop into where the body is just breathing.

It finds this rhythm and it just goes and whatever is supposed to happen will happen.

So it's really beautiful like that.

And of course,

With my breath work,

I'm guiding you through it,

Right?

So it's not like I do that,

I'm talking you through it,

But that's what it is.

It's very simple.

And I find that for people who really want to regulate their nervous system and who feel a lot of like anxiety,

It's really good for that type of person too,

Because it's very gentle and it will pretty instantaneously bring you into that safety,

Parasympathetic nervous system state where you feel relaxed and can perceive.

So that is a really beautiful thing about it as well.

How long does it typically take or is it different for everybody to actually let the body breathe itself?

You know,

It's different for everybody and it can vary even between sessions.

Like sometimes you'll be able to drop in right away and other times it might take longer for you.

But I would say for everyone,

At least definitely by like 10 minutes,

If not shorter,

You can really drop in,

You know,

And you can really kind of find that space.

And then you're not really realizing you're even breathing,

Right?

It's just sort of happening to you.

Yeah.

It's happening.

Yeah.

And you might,

You know,

People have different experiences during it.

Some people will,

You know,

Just kind of go into more of like a dream state.

Other people will have,

You know,

Memories or thoughts or visions or,

You know,

For me,

Like I said,

I get a ton of creative ideas when I'm breathing.

That's always what happens for me.

So,

You know,

You can get a ton of ideas or sometimes you'll have really random thoughts too that you're not even sure where they're coming from,

But it's all,

It's all part of it.

And what's happening is,

You know,

We have so much suppressed emotional energy from childhood and even from adulthood because let's be real,

No one taught us how to deal with our emotions.

They just taught us to press them.

So a lot of us are walking around with so much suppressed emotional energy,

Just giving ourselves the space to feel it and integrate it because,

You know,

Emotions just want to be felt.

And once they're felt,

They go away.

So to feel it and move the energy so that,

You know,

Anxiety will dissipate,

Depression will dissipate,

You know,

Worry,

All of those things,

Just because you're giving yourself the chance to be with what is present for you and move through it.

I'm thinking about people that might not know what their passion is.

What am I supposed to do here on this planet?

I know I've got something inside of me and they may feel very blocked.

I'm guessing that this would work well for someone like that as well,

Correct?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

It's interesting because,

You know,

To kind of go back to the trauma conversation,

One of the things that I started noticing with all of my clients who I would take through this process,

And I didn't realize this in the beginning either,

I did not know that this would be the outcome of this.

But what ended up happening is everyone would discover their purpose or a deeper version of their purpose and how they're meant to move through the world or what their business is meant to be,

You know,

Because it's like,

As you untangle from all of the,

You know,

The programming and what you think you're supposed to do,

Then you just automatically know what you're meant to do.

It's there.

It's just,

It's under all of the other stuff.

Yeah.

So the breathwork is a great way to get there.

It's like clearing the cobwebs,

You know,

Off of the beautiful gift that's already deep inside of you.

That's a great way to breathe them out.

And then you talk a lot about abundance and wealth building.

How do you do that?

Like,

Is it that also with breath?

Yes.

And then,

You know,

I have other tools that I use around that as well.

And a lot of it is related to the trauma stuff that I already shared.

One of the biggest things that I teach around money is this process that I developed around,

You know,

Clearing unconscious fears around money,

What being is,

And this is kind of a different approach than I think most people have to money.

But I deeply believe that the mother wound is very much related to our relationship with money.

So what I always see with people is whatever it is that you didn't get from your mother,

Whether,

You know,

You didn't,

You didn't feel like you were good enough,

Or you didn't feel supported,

Or you didn't feel seen,

Or you,

You know,

Had that bracing anxiety feeling of what's going to happen next.

Usually we will project that wounding onto our relationship with money.

And the mother energy is very similar to money in the sense that it's,

It's a life force energy,

It connects us to life and money is a life force energy,

You know,

You need it to live as much as,

You know,

Some people might not want that to be the case it is.

We have to work with reality.

So money is that life force energy.

So whatever our feeling is about our connection to that energy,

Or whatever we think we didn't get or whatever we think is missing,

Or whatever that wounding is,

We will project that onto money again in an effort to reconcile it.

So I always have people look at that.

And then the other thing is,

We often are carrying a lot of unconscious fears around money from ancestral or past lifetimes,

There's so much imprinted on us around money,

Dismantling a lot of those fears that half the time aren't even ours,

But they've just kind of been imprinted on us and we carry them forward.

So I help people clear those as well.

I actually have a program where I teach people how to clear all of these bigger energies that come up around money,

Especially when you start a business,

Because there's a lot of the same things come up for everyone on that a lot of these like past life or ancestral archetypal energies.

Yeah,

So that's kind of how I look at it.

And then the other thing I always teach people to is,

You know,

We've been it's almost like we've been told,

Well,

These are the rules for the money game.

And it's like,

Well,

Are they though?

Like,

Do we have to play within those rules?

Or can we create our own rules?

So I really like to help people expand what they think is possible.

And just like the ways that we think we have to work with money of like,

Oh,

You need to save it all for a rainy day,

Or you need to do this,

Or you need to do that.

And it's like,

Well,

You don't have to,

You can work with it in the way that you desire in a way that's going to feel really good for you.

And you know,

Just helping people expand their mind around money and raise what I call their wealth consciousness.

So yeah,

So it's such a big piece of it,

Because I feel like the money stuff is usually all related to,

You know,

The deeper stuff that we've been talking about.

So usually when we shift some of that,

The money starts to open up as well.

I love this.

I mean,

I just,

Everything you're saying is around clearing blocks,

Really,

Truly clearing things that are preventing us or inhibiting us from living from our true self,

Living from,

You know,

That expanded soul perspective.

I mean,

Whatever words we want to use,

It's like,

We're here to do,

We're here to do something unique to who we are from a soul perspective and many things,

Not just one thing,

But we do get blocked by so many things.

And what I'm hearing is that such a beautiful gift that breathwork can be as far as clearing blocks on so many levels,

So many different levels.

And the other thing that you mentioned too,

Was doing breathwork actually helps with our ability to channel or the intuition,

You know,

And channeling doesn't have to be this woo woo scary thing.

It's just,

It's your higher self coming down through and it's,

That part of us is talking to us all the time and we discount it like freaking crazy.

People go,

Well,

I don't know,

Did I really hear that?

Yes.

Start saying yes,

Yes,

Yes,

Yes.

And then it,

It even expands that,

That channel that we are getting that higher mind,

That higher wisdom.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

Yes,

Absolutely.

I think that you're right.

We are always getting that information,

But we haven't been taught to value it.

And I think that's where the disconnect can be because,

You know,

So much of the programming that we receive from society is to value things outside of us or the people that know more are the authorities or the experts outside of us.

So then we kind of devalue what is happening inside of us.

And so I think it's also just about teaching yourself to value that information that's coming through.

And then also in doing that,

You start to cultivate a relationship with your higher self.

It's almost like I say,

A relationship with a partner.

If you ignore your partner,

They're probably not going to want to be with you,

Right?

But if you value them,

They're going to show up and you're going to have a beautiful relationship.

So it's kind of the same thing.

So breathwork for me has been such a powerful way to connect with this part of myself.

And when I talk about channeling,

I literally just mean tuning into your higher self,

A higher perspective,

A higher frequency of energy and receiving information and answers that are of that perspective,

That frequency.

That can look so many different ways because I'll get stuff around my business,

But also just around my relationships for my clients.

And it's literally just a higher perspective,

A higher level of wisdom.

And you can feel it.

You can feel when something is coming from that frequency,

That higher perspective.

And for me and for a lot of my clients,

Breathwork has been just such an easy way to connect in with that because,

You know,

You're connecting in with the present moment and your higher self,

But also the breath really moves any of the energy that's being held around,

You know,

Doubt or fear or your trauma.

So it creates this clear path to your higher self.

And who doesn't need that?

A clear path to the higher self.

I love this.

So if someone's listening and they go,

Well,

Okay,

I want to try this.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Come see you.

But if I just want to sit home right now and turn off the podcast and I would sit on my couch,

Is it really,

Truly,

Can we just sit for,

Let's say,

10 minutes,

Set the timer and in out with a breath in through the mouth,

Out through the mouth and find that rhythm and just do we go in with an intention or no intention?

I would say it's usually nice to have an intention,

But you can,

If you just want to experiment,

You can,

But if you're just starting out and you've never done it before,

Even if you just close your eyes and take five conscious connected breaths,

You'll notice the difference in how you feel right away.

So that to me would be a great place to start because it is more challenging to do it on your own,

Especially if you don't have someone walking you through it.

So just starting with five breaths,

I think,

Well,

It's easy enough.

Anyone can do that and you will notice a difference when you do it.

So I would start there.

So I would say that's a great place to start because you will,

Even with the five breaths,

Like I said,

You're going to get something out of it.

I love it.

Thank you.

And what about,

I just want to forewarn people,

Because this happens to me when I do breath work,

But when I get really dizzy,

What is,

Tell us,

What do we do?

What's going on?

Why am I getting dizzy?

So if you are getting dizzy,

I would say just to slow down a little bit,

Because sometimes what can happen is when a lot of oxygen comes into the body,

It can affect us in various ways.

So for example,

A lot of people will experience what I call tetany,

Which is like the hands or the feet will tingle like they're asleep.

And I feel like getting dizzy is a very similar thing where,

But it's kind of in your head a little more.

So I would say just to slow down and maybe just breathe a little bit slower.

So that way you're not,

And it'll probably release some of that.

So you're not feeling so dizzy.

The other thing you can try if it's still not helping is to breathe through the nose,

Because that'll slow things down a little bit.

So there's not so much oxygen being flooded in the body.

And then also you can practice doing shorter times of breath work,

Right?

Where you're just breathing for maybe like five or 10 minutes,

And then you stop.

And then if you do it long enough,

Gradually,

You probably won't get as dizzy,

Because you'll get more used to it.

So that can be another thing to try as well.

It is interesting though,

Because it affects people in so many different ways.

Sometimes people will have a total physical reaction.

Sometimes people will have an emotional reaction.

Sometimes people will see visuals and it really affects everyone so differently.

So just remembering too,

If you're trying it,

That you can't do it wrong.

It's very important to remember not to have any sort of expectation and to just allow the experience to be what it is and know that whatever is meant to happen is happening and you can trust that.

Awesome.

Well,

Thank you so much.

This was amazing.

Thank you for your time today.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

It was fun.

Reviews

thank you for your generosity in sharing 🙏🏼

I too had never heard that the Mother Wound is connected to money. I can definitely see that connection now. Time to clear and release that !!

I did not know about mother wound and connection to money! Thanks Michelle