Do You Want Comfort Or Freedom?

It’s easy to check off the boxes of a spiritual life - meditating, listening to dharma talks, going on retreat - and still feel stuck. In this talk, we explore why our motivation matters. If we’re practicing to feel better rather than to see clearly, suffering persists. But when we stop chasing relief and look directly at what thinks it needs relief, we see that the self we believe needs comfort isn’t even real.

Transcript

So I do spend a lot of time here talking about all of the traps and the obstacles,

Kind of the paradoxes,

The pitfalls that we find in spirituality.

And I do that because there are a lot of them.

And it's just,

It's so easy to really think that we're following the spiritual path,

We're checking off meditation,

We're checking off our mindfulness practice,

We're checking off compassion,

Checking off retreats.

And it can look like we're really following the spiritual path.

But then we find that there's still a lot of anxiety,

There's a lot of fear,

There's a lot of suffering.

And I think what a lot of it is,

Why this still happens,

Is because we don't check our motivation very often for why we're doing the practice.

That a lot of times we're coming to our spiritual practice because we're looking for comfort instead of freedom.

And I know Anthony DeMello had a quote on this,

And I'll paraphrase it,

Where he said that most spiritual seekers are not looking for awakening.

What they're looking for is relief,

For ease,

For comfort.

And I know when I first heard that,

I was kind of taken aback a bit by that because I thought,

Well,

No,

I'm a serious spiritual practitioner.

Well,

That's not me.

And when I looked a little more closely,

I thought,

Nope,

That's me.

That I was,

In fact,

Looking for comfort.

That there was a lot of comfort in the idea of spirituality,

There was a lot of comfort in the story of spirituality.

That I could just play another character of what I am not,

So I could stop playing the character of me,

The one that's suffering,

Me,

The one that's a victim,

Me,

The one that life is so unfair to,

And I could swap it out for another character that I am not,

Me,

The spiritual person,

Me,

The Buddhist,

Me,

The meditator,

Me,

The one that goes on retreats.

And while it looks a little better on the outside,

And there is some comfort in there,

Relatively speaking,

It's a little bit better,

What we find,

Though,

Is there's still a lot of anxiety,

There's still a lot of fear,

There's still a lot of doubt,

There's still a lot of suffering.

And so,

This is not a path of comfort,

Of seeking comfort.

It's a path of freedom.

It's a path of seeing that you are not the spiritual person,

You are not the person who is suffering,

Right?

That you are not any of these things.

And it's in seeing that you are not these things,

You are not the one that wants comfort.

It's in seeing that that you find freedom.

And freedom is very different than comfort,

Because comfort,

Seeking comfort,

Seeking comfort in our spiritual practices,

Implies grasping.

It implies,

It presupposes,

There is someone here that is grasping at it that needs comfort.

And that's where the suffering comes from,

It's where the anxiety comes from,

It's where the fear comes from.

And so,

The key is in checking our motivation.

Why are we practicing?

Why are we here?

And why are we listening to this Dharma talk?

And why did you pick up that Dharma book?

Why are you looking for that guided meditation?

And if the answer is because you want freedom,

Then great,

You're in the right place,

Fantastic.

But if the answer is that you're looking for comfort,

Then what you're going to find is some suffering as well.

Because we've all done this,

Where we've had a difficulty,

We're stressed,

We're anxious,

Maybe you're having some challenges with your kids,

And you're furiously looking for the guided meditation that deals with difficult children,

Right?

And you're looking,

You're grasping for comfort from the stress and the anxiety.

And then you're grasping at the meditations.

Okay,

I'll listen to this one for 30 seconds.

No,

That didn't do it.

Next one,

Let me try the next one,

15 seconds.

Nope,

That didn't do it.

And we go on and we're like,

What's going wrong?

I'm here doing my practice.

I'm looking for my guided meditation to take my discomfort away.

Why isn't it working?

Because we were looking for comfort,

We weren't looking for freedom.

And even in self-compassion,

When we come to a practice like self-compassion,

That initially gives us some comfort,

Right?

But we come to it with the idea that it's meant to take it all away,

All the pain away immediately,

Right?

So we come to self-compassion,

Go,

Oh,

Sweetheart,

This is really hard.

Oh,

Sweetheart,

This really hurts,

Right?

And we pet ourselves,

And there's some comfort in that.

And then we go,

Well,

But hang on,

It's still here.

It's still here,

It didn't go away.

And we think my self-compassion practice isn't working now either.

Instead of going further,

Instead of looking for freedom in our self-compassion,

The kind words meant to bring us into our experience,

To feel what's here,

To be present with what's here,

To breathe mindfully into what's here,

To investigate the hurt,

The anxiety,

The doubt,

The fear,

To keep unpacking it and seeing what's below it.

Ah,

Yes,

And there it is,

The feeling of unworthiness,

And there it is,

The not enough for me.

And as we keep unpacking it and breathing mindfully and creating space,

The feelings start to slowly dissolve.

And that sense of a me that needed comfort before,

We don't notice it anymore,

Right?

Because that's what this practice is about,

Finding freedom,

Seeing that what we thought it was that needed comfort didn't even exist.

But we go to self-compassion looking for comfort,

And it doesn't work.

And so then we move on to the next thing,

And we get attached to teachers,

Right?

Oh,

This teacher spoke to me in a way,

And it really opened me up,

And I really felt something.

And we get very attached,

And we get very excited,

Because this teacher then gave me a lot of comfort.

And now,

Every time I feel discomfort,

Now I've got to go find another talk by the teacher,

I've got to go find another book.

The next thing,

I'm booking a flight to get closer to them,

Because I've confused the teacher as comfort and missed what the teacher is pointing to.

And that's not to say it's not nice when you have a teacher that you relate to and it feels good.

Of course,

We're not trying to make this more painful,

But we don't ever want to confuse the words that are being spoken,

The comfort that's coming there from what the teacher is pointing to.

And so the path itself,

Ironically,

Reinforces this need that there is something here that I need to get out of.

I need to get out of my discomfort,

I need to get to comfort.

So instead,

What we should be seeing is that you were never in it to begin with.

That's the freedom,

Is the looking to see you were never there in the first place.

As Paul Hederman,

Great non-duality teacher says,

The reason you can't get out of it is that you were never in it.

We spend all this time trying to get out of something that we are not in.

And then our practices,

The teachings,

The rituals,

The teachers,

We go grasping after them for some comfort because there's this idea that somehow I need to get out of this.

And so the grasping at the comfort from these practices,

Reinforcing the idea that I need to get out of something.

So the spirituality,

The practices,

The teachings,

All end up becoming a crutch for us because it's being reinforced instead of being seen.

And while the practices are useful,

I'm not suggesting we throw the practices out.

I know there's paths where they say,

You don't need to do anything at all,

You're already enlightened.

And on one level,

That is absolutely true.

You don't.

But there is,

For many of us,

Something that we do need to be doing in order to see it.

Even if it's just to see all of the ways in which we keep misusing the spiritual practices,

There's something beneficial in that.

And seeing how I was grasping at my spiritual teacher,

At that new book that I've got,

At the new Dharma talk,

At this new meditation,

Even just seeing how we're grasping at that,

Right,

Looking for comfort in those things instead of looking to see that there was nothing there that was uncomfortable to begin with.

We just get so caught up in it,

We get so caught up in the story of it,

Believing it,

Believing there is something here that could get something outside of it could give it some comfort.

And so,

We can use our practices,

Yeah,

We can use them wisely.

We use them wisely,

Checking in on our intention,

Our motivation,

Why am I doing this practice?

It's too easy to get,

To be checking off,

You know,

Checking everything off,

And not realizing that we're actually getting further away from what it is that we're seeking.

Because even though Anthony DeMello says,

You know,

He says,

I don't think that most spiritual seekers are really seeking awakening.

I think deep down,

We are seeking awakening.

It's just that we get so tricked again,

Right?

The illusion,

As Sandy's saying,

Like it's so easy to get tricked again.

I think we do want the freedom,

But we just get tricked so easily.

So we can check our intention again,

Right?

If you're reaching for something,

You're reaching for a Dharma talk,

You're reaching for a Dharma book,

You're reaching for,

You know,

Oh,

I've got to get on the next retreat,

Just to ask yourself,

Why am I doing this?

What am I looking for?

Am I looking for comfort?

Is that my motivation right now?

If I'm reaching out for someone else to try and comfort me,

Then all I'm doing is ultimately getting suffering.

Because even if,

Even if you hop on that Dharma talk,

And you feel good for a little while,

If you confuse the Dharma talk with the comfort,

Then you're not really looking.

Because you just stop there.

I just felt a little better.

And it felt good to hear about it.

It felt good to hear what peace is like.

Felt good to hear what it's like to be free of suffering and free of fear.

Like,

Man,

It sounds great,

Doesn't it?

Who doesn't like to hear that?

But at the same time,

Then we're still holding on to our suffering,

Because we're still believing there's something here that needs to be comforted by something outside of me,

That needs to be fixed.

There's something broken here.

So we're not looking,

We're not sitting with it in that discomfort and saying,

Okay,

Let me just sit with it.

And sit with it.

What is it?

Right?

We've talked about this all,

Sit with what's here,

Breathe mindfully into it,

Feel it.

Right?

Notice that sense,

That pull,

That chasing,

That craving for something outside of me to complete me,

To make me more comfortable,

To make me more whole.

Right?

When we sit with it,

And we notice it,

And we allow it to be,

We accept what's here,

What you notice is that it's not something solid,

Independent.

It's not me.

It's just,

It's a feeling.

It's a feeling that was connected to a thought habit,

A process,

A pattern that arose.

And then when it brought my attention down into it,

It started to dissipate.

Oh,

I'm seeing there was nothing here that needed something outside of it.

I just was believing it again.

And it does,

And you know,

Fine,

Then go on the Dharma talk,

Read the Dharma book,

But not from a place of grasping.

I mean,

That's the point.

Again,

We're not,

I'm not saying don't listen to the talks,

Don't listen to,

Read the books,

Do the meditations,

Go on the retreats,

But not with the idea of this is going to bring me comfort.

With the idea,

Or even just in that moment,

Like we can be booking a retreat three months out because I feel there's something wrong here.

And I just,

I need to have,

I need to know there's something in the future where this is going to get fixed.

I need to find some comfort now.

So again,

Addressing it now,

Real time,

It's here.

It's here now.

Be with what's here now.

And then once you see again,

Oh my God,

I thought there was something here I had to get out of.

Actually,

I was never in it,

Right?

That's what we're coming in and seeing.

That's what mindfulness is doing.

Self-compassion also,

Just another practice to help us to be in,

To come into our experience,

To see,

To investigate,

To look and see this whole thing,

How this keeps getting all wound up again,

How we keep believing it,

Getting hooked into it and all these myriad different ways,

But to see it and go,

Ah,

Now I get it.

And then if you want to book the retreat,

Great.

From the mindset of,

Yeah,

Because I want freedom.

I want freedom.

I'm not doing this because I'm looking for some,

I'm looking to just get rid of this comfort that I,

A discomfort that I feel right now I'm doing,

Because perhaps those are the conditions that will open me up,

Right?

To see again,

Right?

And those are good conditions,

Better than a club med holiday,

Right?

So those are good conditions.

And even something,

Or sometimes I do get,

Like sometimes the discomfort is too great.

The fear is too great.

The anxiety,

The pain is too great.

And if you're reaching at that point for a Dharma talk to give you some comfort,

Okay,

But just check that intention.

I'm doing this because I need some comfort.

It's a little too much for me right now.

The feeling is too much.

The believing in it is too much.

And I need some help.

And even just that in just knowing,

Okay,

I'm doing this because I just,

I need some comfort.

But even that,

That motivation,

Now that intention can shift the way maybe you do find your favorite teacher and you put on their meditation or you put on one of their talks and you hear the sound of their voice and you start really kind of more mindfully,

You're observing what's happening,

Right?

You're seeing the grasping starting to fall away and you're like,

Actually,

They weren't doing it.

They weren't doing it at all.

There was nothing really here.

So it's okay to even at times like,

Yeah,

Sometimes we need the comfort and that's okay.

Hopefully,

That's less time than actually doing the practice on our own.

But sometimes we do need that comfort and that's okay.

Just make sure that your intention,

That you're checking in,

That that's why you're doing it.

Because paradoxically,

When we stop chasing the comfort,

When we stop thinking that there is something out there to fix something here,

When we start seeing that there was no thing here that was uncomfortable to begin with,

We find the release.

Right?

It's in the stopping of the chasing that we find,

In fact,

What it is that we were looking for.

But not by getting bound up in it,

Not by getting bound up in something,

But in fact,

Seeing there was nothing there getting bound up to begin with.

This is what all the teachers,

All the teachings,

All the practices are pointing to.

There is nothing outside of you that could relieve what you think is inside of you to begin with.

It's not real.

And it's in seeing that,

It's in seeing that the release is there,

The letting go is there.

It is seeing how this whole thing is happening.

There's nothing here,

Solid,

Independent,

Separate,

Inherently existing,

That needs comfort,

That needs something outside of it.

But as long as we believe that,

And if we're using our practices for comfort,

And sometimes they can bring us some comfort,

Right?

Even if it's initially just bringing us a little bit of comfort,

And if we're unconscious about it,

Going just for the comfort without realizing what we're doing,

Then ultimately the suffering is going to be there.

Ultimately,

The suffering will come behind it.

And so,

I do agree that most spiritual seekers are not following a path of awakening,

That in fact,

They are seeking something outside of themselves instead of seeing,

Instead of seeing this whole thing of what it is that's actually seeking,

Right?

Of seeing that.

And so,

This is where we can keep coming back and checking our motivation.

Why am I practicing?

Why am I doing this?

You want the freedom.

You want the awakening.

And it can happen in any moment,

Any moment that you are willing to look in and say,

Why am I doing this?

And to stop fooling ourselves that it's about comfort,

That it's about,

If I could just feel a little bit more comfortable.

Because sometimes this isn't necessarily comfortable,

The process itself,

In breathing mindfully into our pain,

Into our fear,

There is some discomfort there.

And we need to learn how to be with that.

Because the freedom isn't jumping to the other side of it.

The freedom is,

Again,

Seeing how it was all wound up in our thoughts,

In our clinging,

In our grasping.

And the more that we bring our attention to it,

The more that we breathe into it,

The more that we create space,

The more that we accept these feelings are here,

We don't push them away.

That's the release.

That's the release.

There was never anything to get out of,

Because you were never in it.

So,

To check our motivation,

To keep checking in and seeing why are you doing things.

It's great if you're on a Dharma talk.

And Paul,

I saw your thank you,

Like,

Yeah.

And if a teacher is pointing something and it's opening something inside of you,

Fantastic.

Fantastic.

And that happens to me as well.

Yes,

I'll be listening to a teacher and something opens up.

Don't attach it to the teacher.

It was something that was happening here,

A letting go.

Stay with that.

Don't create more suffering out of it.

Don't create more attachment out of it,

More grasping out of it.

Right?

Keep it.

You stay with what it is that's here.

Ah,

There's an opening.

Oh,

Let me investigate that.

Wow.

Wow.

Okay.

Right?

That is the freedom.

You know,

We don't need,

You know,

The teachings are helpful.

The practices are helpful.

Ultimately,

Ultimately,

You will find in the end,

You have to put all of these things down.

They are not the end point.

They are simply a means to an end.

We're not trying to be great mindfulness practitioners.

We're not trying to be great meditators.

These are practices.

They're tools that we pick up while we need them because we're still believing in the something here.

And as long as we use the tools correctly,

Wisely,

Skillfully,

Then eventually we see there's nothing here.

You don't need the tools anymore.

You don't need the tools.

You might still meditate because it's helpful for your nervous system.

You know,

It's good.

It's nice to rebalance the nervous system.

You might just do it because it feels nice.

Yeah,

It's just nice.

Something you've done for a long time.

But it's not because you need the tools.

They are not the goal.

They are not the end point.

They are something useful along the way,

But they can also be misused.

They can easily be misused as well.

And thank you,

Brad,

For the donation.

Thank you.

And Paul,

So a teacher can absolutely be a catalyst.

Yes,

Teachers are pointers.

Teachers are pointers.

They're pointing at something.

Don't get confused by the teacher.

Too often there is a sense of,

Oh,

I just want to be around the teacher.

There's this feeling of calm and relaxation and ease around the teacher.

And yeah,

And you should generally feel pretty good,

You know,

To be around someone who's feeling more at ease,

Feeling more peaceful,

Who's not grasping.

Yeah,

There's a nice sensation around that.

But don't get confused with that.

Look at what they're pointing to.

Look at what they're pointing to instead.

And Lynn,

Just you're saying sometimes you feel like you're always grasping for what might be.

Fantastic.

See that?

Yeah.

I mean,

There is this,

You know,

We're always,

Oh,

But what if,

You know,

What if that?

What if this?

What if that?

Right?

And we don't even realize this grasping at this,

At this,

Again,

Just concepts,

Ideas.

This is all just concepts and ideas.

We're just grasping at those things as well.

Right?

And so just to notice that,

Because it can feel like when we're grasping at this kind of,

Oh,

What if that might happen?

Oh,

What if that might happen?

And it feels relatively speaking,

Kind of good,

Better than the,

What if the doomsday scenario happens,

Right?

Relatively speaking,

But it's still,

There's a contraction.

There's still a contraction with it.

There's still a tightening,

You know,

And we're so lost in what we're perceiving what might be.

We're completely oblivious to the grasping and the suffering that's happening and the relatively speaking,

Tightening the tension that's there.

And of course,

What also happens is once,

You know,

We're grasping at what might be,

And we know that desire,

The other side of desire is fear.

And then what if I don't get it?

Oh no.

And then what if this happened?

Like we just start out with some fantasy about,

Oh my God,

This would be great if all this went along,

You know,

This way and this way and all these things.

And then we start going,

But what if that,

And what if that,

If what if that?

And the whole time,

The whole time,

All we are doing is reinforcing this illusion that there is something here that would be happier if it got over there and if it got these other things.

And then we get there,

You know,

Many times we get there,

Maybe it was just to get to the cafe and get a cup of coffee and a chocolate cake,

Slice a cake.

Maybe that's all it was.

It was the grasping for the cake and the coffee.

And you get there,

Right?

And there was tension on the way there.

We don't notice it.

We're so lost into the cake and the coffee.

And you get there.

And for a few moments,

The grasping goes away.

And we think,

Well,

It's because I got the coffee and I got the cake,

Or it's the coffee and the cake that's doing it.

It was the grasping that went away.

I mean,

Yeah,

The cake tastes nice.

The coffee tastes nice,

Right?

But what feels so good is the grasping goes away,

But it only goes away for a few moments.

And then it's like,

What next?

Now I got to get over there.

And it's just endlessly,

Endlessly chasing.

And so much of this is we are chasing comfort.

We're chasing the good conditions,

The pleasant conditions,

And we're pushing away the unpleasant conditions,

Right?

But you can't have the pleasant without the unpleasant.

You can't have the praise without the blame.

Can't have the gain without the loss.

We all get all of it.

We get all of it.

You can't have one without the other.

And so we're always just in this eternal,

Oh,

I've got to get over there.

And oh,

No,

And I've got to push this out of the way,

Right?

We've got one foot on the accelerator,

One foot on the brake the whole time.

In the meantime,

We're suffering.

We're burning out the engine on the car.

We're burning out the engine here from all the stress that we're under.

And we're not living our lives.

And we're not feeling okay.

We're not feeling safe.

We're not feeling whole.

We feel like there's something wrong here because there's always something out there I got to get to.

The carrot's just always a little bit further in front of me.

If I could just get there.

And we get there,

Got here.

Only a few minutes later,

I go,

And now I got to get over there.

Or it wasn't quite like I imagined it would be.

And in some ways,

Now I've got to complain about that.

And we're just living in our heads.

And again,

Even on just the spiritual path.

I mean,

This is why,

And I have a talk somewhere on Insight Timer about seeing instead of seeking.

I mean,

Just endless spiritual seekers.

And I say this as a Reformed seeker,

Like every pitfall I give you on the spiritual path is because I've done it,

Right?

It's not because I'm looking at it going,

Oh,

Look at all them making all these mistakes.

It's because I've seen it in myself that I've done it as well.

And it's almost,

In some ways,

You could say it's part of the path because we all do seem to do it.

Very few seem to avoid the pitfalls.

But the pitfalls are themselves a teaching and a lesson for us to see what is my motivation here?

Why am I here?

Why am I listening to this Dharma talk?

Am I here to just feel some comfort?

Or do I want freedom?

Because if I want freedom,

I need to start looking at what is she pointing to?

What is he pointing to?

When they keep saying that there's nothing here,

You know,

What does that mean?

That there is nothing solid,

Independent here.

Every time I have a thought,

I want that,

I don't want that.

Every time I'm thinking about myself in this way,

I am creating the illusion of a little me that I take to be who I am.

And that little me is never happy.

Even if it is,

Sorry,

I should say,

Even if it is,

It's for a fleeting few moments,

A fleeting few moments,

You got the praise,

You got the big praise,

You got the big promotion,

You got the,

You know,

The big car,

The big house,

Right?

And it's like,

Oh,

You can kind of feel like,

Oh,

Look at me,

I'm set for life,

Because this is what we do,

We always extrapolate it out,

Right?

Well,

Now I'm set for life.

How many times have we been set for life?

Set for life and our life has been over a million times throughout our lifetime.

None of it's been true.

None of it's been true.

And so,

You know,

We're constantly chasing this idea that there's a little me that could somehow be happier,

If it just found the right meditation,

If it just went on the right retreat,

If it just got the right amount of praise,

If it just looked a particular way,

If it just got that relationship problem resolved,

Right?

There's always this little me,

But it's never satisfied.

It's never satisfied.

The ego,

The self,

The separate self,

The little me,

It only exists through duality,

Subject object,

I need something,

I don't need something,

Or I don't want something,

Or I don't want what's bad.

I don't want the criticism.

Well,

I don't want the criticism,

I want the praise.

Okay,

Well,

When you're seeking the praise,

What are you doing?

You are at the same time fearing the criticism.

When you're seeking the gain,

The wins,

At the same time,

You are fearing the loss,

Right?

When you are seeking the comfort,

You're at the same time fearing the discomfort,

Instead of coming in and feeling and going,

Okay,

This is.

.

.

And there is,

You know,

Our impulse is not to come in and feel it.

Our impulse is to jump over this,

Is to somehow make the discomfort go away.

So everything in our mind,

Our brain is telling us,

Don't come in and feel this.

But look at what we've been doing.

We haven't been coming in open,

Excuse me,

We haven't been coming in and feeling it.

And we just stay lost in this cycle,

Lost and lost,

Forever lost.

Got to get over there.

Oh,

Got to get this out of the way.

Oh,

I can't feel this.

Oh,

I can't do that.

And just more and more discomfort and anxiety and fear.

And we keep going,

Why does the anxiety and fear keep coming?

Because we're not willing to come in and feel it.

We're not willing to be with it.

We want to push it away.

But that too is part of the path,

Come in and feel it.

It's just sensations.

The grasping,

The craving,

Which feels so painful with the story,

Right?

The story plus the feeling creating the emotion,

Right?

So then we get the story out by coming in and feeling,

Right?

And then it's like,

It's just,

It's physical sensations.

That the more that you bring your attention to and you breathe mindfully and you open up,

You start to see them dissipate.

Ah,

That thing I thought I was a minute ago,

It's not even here.

It's not here.

It was never here.

There was nothing here.

It was just a process that has had you fooled your whole life thinking that if you just got over there,

If you just,

You know,

If you could just get this discomfort gone,

Then you'd be fine.

And not seeing that we're like a little hamster on the wheel,

Just spinning and spinning and spinning,

Endlessly spinning and never getting anywhere.

In fact,

Sorry,

Where we're getting is just a lot of suffering and dissatisfaction and discontentment and anxiety and doubt and unworthiness.

That's what we're getting.

And the whole time missing our lives,

The whole time missing,

Missing what's going on.

It's really,

It's important we check in with our motivation.

Why are we doing this practice?

The more you check in and Lynn,

I think it was Lynn that you said that.

Yeah,

Lynn.

Yeah,

The more that you check in with that,

Notice the grasping.

Don't judge yourself for it.

Don't judge yourself for it.

I mean,

Everyone's doing it.

It's part of our,

It's our conditioning.

Our conditioning is grasping.

It's been this way for thousands of years for humans.

I don't think it was this way,

Way,

Way,

Way back when,

When we were living very much in accord with nature and tribes and,

And there was,

It was just such a different way of existing,

But we have lived this way for a long,

Long time.

It's part of our culture.

So it's part of our conditioning.

None of these thoughts are yours.

These grasping thoughts,

They're not yours.

They're not yours.

They're,

They're,

They're kind of all floating around in this,

In,

In the society that we're in.

So it's hard.

You know,

How could you,

How could you not?

You,

You're arising based on everything in your culture,

Your society,

What the media that you're exposed to,

Seeing everyone else grasping and,

And the images,

Oh,

Look how happy they are because they got that,

Right?

We see a million images of people playing volleyball on the beach and all of a sudden you throw a Coca-Cola and they're,

My God,

They're the happiest people in the world,

Right?

We start to associate,

Oh my God,

That means happiness.

Or it's Miller Lite or it's Budweiser,

Whatever it is,

Right?

Then we start to associate,

Look at him driving the new car,

They look so happy.

You look at them doing this,

They look so happy,

Right?

And you see all those images.

So of course the grasping is there.

Of course the grasping is there.

So it's not to deny the grasping.

Don't deny the grasping.

It's great that you're aware of it.

It's great that you're aware of it and you're willing to admit it.

Like,

Yeah,

There's a lot of grasping going on here.

That is so insightful.

So insightful to see that.

So now it's,

Be more mindful.

Notice that it comes with a contraction.

It comes with a clenching.

Got to get over there,

Right?

It's just,

Oh,

Here's the grasping.

Here's the grasping.

It's something more pleasant,

Some pleasant condition.

I'm just imagining a pleasant condition,

Imagining being praised,

How wonderful that would be.

I'm imagining having the success,

How wonderful it would be.

Just noticing the grasping.

Okay,

This is what's here.

Now come and feel.

Allow the feelings to be here.

Investigate.

What's going on here?

What is going on here?

Wow,

Look at this feeling,

Because I thought there was something better out there.

And as you investigate,

And we know that we use,

Or at least I teach a lot with the RAIN acronym.

We recognize,

Allow,

Investigate,

Nurture if we're really in the depths of our suffering,

But also when we're not in the depths of our suffering anymore,

We've really tended to that feeling of fear,

Those doubts,

Those feelings of unworthiness.

The N is not self,

What it was originally intended for,

Not self.

Oh,

There was never a me that was going to be happier over there.

And in investigating that,

And in seeing that,

Lynn,

You open up and you go,

Oh,

Oh,

Here it is.

Here's the freedom.

This is what I want.

This is the freedom.

It's right here.

It's not in the getting what I want.

It's not in getting some more pleasant condition.

It's in seeing the grasping at it.

It's in seeing the grasping.

And thank you,

Paul,

For the donation.

I hope you're still here.

I'm sorry that I'm just now acknowledging it.

I did see it,

But thank you.

Thank you.

So I hope that helps.

That helps,

Lynn.

Oh,

Yeah,

And Sandy,

For sure,

The corporate dream is not what the heart wants.

No.

No,

And of course,

This is where they,

In corporate settings,

Where they use meditation and mindfulness,

Where it's called often McMindfulness,

Because it's used to reduce stress,

To try and create,

You know,

To help people be more productive.

But it's really missing the heart of the practice.

It's really missing what the practice,

And hey,

If your office offers it,

Like,

Go do it.

I mean,

Maybe that's how you ended up here.

Great.

I mean,

All it takes is just being introduced to it in some way,

And then it's like,

Ooh,

I want to go beyond the productivity.

I want to go beyond that.

There's something deeper here.

There's something more.

There's something,

Wow,

I'm really missing here,

Missing seeing,

Right?

So we don't,

You know,

It does come in a lot into corporations with,

In that case,

With kind of more ego intentions,

Looking for a better bottom line for the company,

Better profits,

More productive employees.

But hey,

Just that exposure,

Like Paul,

Like you were saying,

In that exposure,

The teacher can then be that catalyst to be like,

Oh man,

Man,

I want to explore this more.

There's something here.

There's something here.

And thank you,

Julie.

Thank you for the donation.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And Michelle,

To what you're saying,

And then we're living for moments rather than living in the moment.

Yeah.

I think that's really,

That was really poignantly said that,

Um,

Yeah,

It's like for these little flashes of relief,

All this stress for a little moment of relief.

And it's like,

Man,

You're,

You're,

You're leaving all this.

You're leaving so much on the table.

You're leaving it all on the table.

You're leaving it all on the table,

Your life.

You know,

This,

Um,

You know,

We're so caught up in,

In the avatar,

In the VR headset and what's going on up there that we're missing seeing like,

This is pretty amazing.

This is pretty amazing.

When you really start to see the nature of reality,

Which we talked about a lot in the last few classes,

When you really start to see how things are arising,

How we are arising interdependent,

Interconnected,

Always changing.

And that is why,

That is why,

Um,

Grasping is here,

Right.

In all of us because you know,

Interdependent,

Interconnected,

The culture that we were brought up in,

Right.

But then other conditions kind of came along where we've been exposed to spiritual teachings for some reason,

No choice,

No independent choice here being made about liking,

You know,

If it was Buddhism or if it was Advaita Vedanta,

If it was,

Um,

Just,

You know,

Mindfulness meditation,

Like no,

No,

Like,

Ooh,

I,

I decided to like it.

We just,

We had the conditions that,

Yeah,

It touched something here and it kept us moving forward.

And it's like,

Wow,

This is amazing.

And the more that we see that,

The more that we see how we are arising in each moment,

Interdependent,

Interconnected,

We are no different than the tree in that sense.

We're sentient.

Yes,

We're sentient.

We,

We feel this experience.

We know this experience,

But we are essentially no different from the tree,

No different from the rabbit,

No different from the mountain,

Arising,

Changing moment by moment,

Sentient,

Like the rabbit,

Sentient,

Like the dog,

Um,

You know,

Having this experience of seeing how you are arising and changing.

Like you find yourself,

You're,

You're in a shop and,

And there's all these people around and you just think,

My God,

How did all of us,

Like we're,

We're all here in this moment.

And yes,

What that person's doing over there or what they're not doing is affecting how this one is arising over here.

Right.

And you realize,

And someone just gives you a smile or they say something nice and you're like,

Oh my gosh.

And there's this connection,

This shared connection that we share.

And it's so amazing.

And so there's all this,

These things,

These little moments,

Little things that we miss because we're so looking for just the big moments as well.

We only want the big moments.

I want the,

The big moments of success,

The big moments of promotions,

The big moment of meeting your partner,

Of getting the new car,

Of getting the new toy.

We're always looking for the big moments.

They're so fleeting.

And we don't deny those big moments if they happen,

Like don't deny them,

Enjoy them,

But don't put all your life waiting for those.

There's a million,

A million amazing things happening in each moment that we're,

We're,

We put our VR headset on.

We're so lost in the little avatar getting over there that we don't even see it,

That we miss it.

Yeah,

It's just crazy what we're missing.

I'll just look back here and see cause Sandy,

I know you had,

Yeah,

Okay.

You were raised with external validation and it's not easy to break out of.

I mean,

Definitely some people have the conditions of even more external validation.

Everyone feels that to some degree,

Uh,

To some degree in this culture because the separate self by,

By its nature is incomplete and lacking,

By its nature is incomplete and lacking.

And therefore I need someone outside of me,

Something outside external to validate me,

To tell me I'm a good person,

To tell me I'm okay.

So even just the separate self itself is,

Is,

Is simply,

Um,

Almost by definition needing validation.

That's what it wants.

That's what it wants to feel,

Um,

Feel worthy,

But it feels lack.

There's always a sense of lack because there's always something I need out there.

Either I need to push it away or I need to get there.

There's always something I am somehow not whole here every time I'm lost in the VR headset.

So it's a,

It's strongly conditioned in you.

It's strongly conditioned.

But if you know that validation,

This is where this practice also can be very helpful for us.

When we know,

And I should put this,

I have a talk on this,

Like our top 10 playlist.

When you know what it is that you're most often looking for,

For Lynn,

It's just the next,

Next thing,

Right?

Or,

Or,

Or you were saying the,

Um,

How did you put it?

For what might be,

Um,

You know,

So for you,

You'd say,

Okay,

There's a lot of always looking for what might be.

For Sandy,

You'd say there's a lot of always looking for validation.

And,

And knowing that,

Knowing that you can wake up in the morning and say,

The need for validation is going to be there.

It's going to be there.

It's going to come up today.

It's going to mostly come up when I'm really tired.

It's probably not going to be there so much in the morning because you've meditated and you're feeling pretty good and,

And just the day hasn't gotten to you yet.

Right?

So also it's good to think about it during the day.

Like when do I feel,

When does my energy fall off?

When do I feel a little more tired?

When are the times when I start to get really lost?

A lot of people between like two and three,

Two and three can sometimes be a pretty,

You know,

Kind of a tiring part of the day for people.

Um,

Going to sleep at night can be,

Can be difficult because that's when you start thinking about all those things.

Um,

So the more that you can be aware of it,

Yeah,

Lynn,

You're saying awareness is key.

The more that you can know,

Yep,

There's that need for validation.

Okay.

I'm going to,

I know you're coming today.

I know you're coming.

I know you're coming.

It's okay.

And it's okay.

That,

That thought process that you need validation,

That you need something outside of you.

It's okay that it's there.

Don't,

Don't,

Um,

Push it away.

Just the opposite.

Oh,

Here you are.

Here you are.

Here you are.

You're needing some validation.

Oh,

Sweetheart,

What's going on?

Right?

And we can really talk.

We can use self-compassion in a way to talk to it.

Oh,

Sweetheart,

You're needing some validation.

I understand.

I understand.

Right?

Breathe mindfully,

Feel it.

Yeah,

I get it.

I get it.

It's okay.

It's okay.

You're here.

It's okay.

Right?

And so in this way,

We can talk to it in a way that gives it kind of some temporary form a little bit more,

But in a softer way that allows us to get closer to it.

Because behind,

You know,

So much in the validation that we're looking for outside of us is again,

The sense that I'm just,

I'm not enough.

Right?

And so we can start to get to that.

Oh yeah,

I get it.

I get what's going on here.

You know,

Like you would for a child,

A child that would come to you and say like,

You know,

I got criticized.

So maybe we'll take the other side.

I got criticized today and it was really painful.

And you go,

Oh,

Sweetheart,

It's okay.

It's okay.

Come here.

Come here.

Let me put my arms around you.

Let me hold you.

It's okay.

We can be here with it.

Let's just feel it.

Let's feel that.

Right?

Because again,

Remember in seeking praise,

In seeking praise,

We are fearing criticism at the same time.

We don't realize it,

But that's what we're doing.

We are fearing criticism at the same time.

So the more that we can come in and just comfort it.

Yeah,

It's okay.

It's okay.

And as you do it and you feel and you breathe and you allow it to be here and you keep investigating and what's behind that,

You know,

What's behind the need for praise?

Oh,

Feeling of self-worth,

Right?

Oh,

Oh,

You're not feeling worthy.

Oh,

Sweetheart.

Okay.

Let me give some space to you too.

The more we can give our attention,

Which is our love,

Our attention to it,

Right?

It starts to go from this wound up ball,

This habit that just keeps persisting,

Keeps persisting,

And it starts to dissipate.

It's like when you see a hurricane,

You know,

It's really,

Really bound up and then it starts to fall apart,

Right?

And it's like,

Oh yeah,

It was just a feeling and it's a habit.

It's just a habit of believing there is something here that needs validation.

That if I got the validation,

I could get out of this bind that I'm in.

You weren't in it to begin with,

But that's what we have to keep seeing.

We have to keep seeing it.

And maybe,

You know,

I will suggest as a talk for you to go back and watch Sandy.

Remember when we did the ego game series a couple of years ago?

And I did a talk on the validator because validation is just a huge need of the ego.

Just constantly wants to be validated,

But it never lasts.

It never lasts.

You get the validation and it feels good for a few moments,

And then it just goes through you.

Now I need more validation.

But even worse,

Now I got the criticism,

Right?

If we keep thinking that this practice,

This path is about trying to create pleasant conditions outside or even pleasant conditions inside,

If we're thinking it,

If that's our motivation initially,

Then we're just going to keep finding suffering because one day you're going to be praised,

The next day you're going to be criticized,

Or just no one's going to validate you at all that day.

And you're going to be left with your own thoughts,

The same thoughts that have been spinning around for 60,

70 years.

I'm not good enough.

I suck.

They see the real me.

I'm a loser,

Right?

Playing that same,

Like put that eight track in again,

Right?

For those of us old now,

Let me put that eight track in again.

I'm a loser,

Right?

Because I didn't get the validation that I needed today.

Instead of saying,

Nope,

That's not the path.

The path is come in and feel it.

The practice is to come in and feel.

You're already uncomfortable.

It's not going to make you more uncomfortable.

It's not going to make you more uncomfortable than you already are,

But you don't do it as a way of seeking comfort.

It's a way of seeing.

We've got to see,

We've got to shine a light on what it is that we think is here to see that it is not real.

It is not real.

It is just a thought process,

A constant thought process.

Whether it's seeking validation,

Whether it's seeking just pleasant conditions,

Whether it's seeking well,

Materiality,

Whatever it is,

Right?

Whatever it is,

To keep seeing that that seeking,

That conditioning,

That mind movement,

That thought,

There is nothing behind that thought,

But the thought is always,

As the thought is arising,

There is a belief that there is something already here,

And it wasn't here.

It only arose with the thought.

It only arose with the thought,

Because when the thought goes away and we come in and we feel and we breathe into what's here and we allow what's here,

We're clear about what is here.

We're no longer up in the VR headset.

We're clear about what is here,

And we're here with it.

We're not pushing it away.

We're investigating,

Because again,

A lot underneath that validation,

That need for validation,

We've got to unpack.

There's a lot of emotions that are getting buried that we need to keep being able to,

And what else is here,

And what,

Oh,

And there's not enough for me.

Oh,

And you too.

Okay,

There's room for that too,

Right?

We've got to keep unpacking it,

Unpacking it to be with what's here,

To see that ultimately,

This was just a process that we took to be as something solid and real and who we are.

It's not who we are.

It's not who we are.

And yes,

Sue,

You were there for the original ego game that we did,

I think like five years ago,

And it is such the trickster.

It has a million disguises,

A million disguises,

And it just tricks again,

And again,

And again on the spiritual path.

And I talk about this a lot because it is such the trickster on the spiritual path as well.

But that's also,

When we see it,

Even fooling us on the spiritual path,

I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing.

It's like,

Oh,

I just saw you again.

I just saw how clever it is.

I saw another side.

Okay,

Great.

So another side.

Yeah.

Yes,

Brad,

The eight track.

Probably not everyone on here knows what an eight track even is.

Yeah.

And thank you,

Michelle.

Thank you,

My dear.

Thank you for your donation.

Thank you.

Yeah,

Such the trickster.

Okay,

I'll just go back here,

See if there's any other questions or comments.

Oh,

Kimmy.

Hi,

Kimmy.

I hope you're still here.

Grasping for something that already is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

It's,

I mean,

The grasping,

Again,

While it's creating that separate self,

That ego,

You know,

The little me,

At the same time,

It's also creating that sense of I'm incomplete,

I need something.

But in the absence of it,

You actually don't need anything at all.

What you realize is that you're already complete,

You're already whole.

That you couldn't not,

You know,

This idea that somehow I'm lacking,

That again,

Is the ego.

The ego saying I'm lacking,

It's suggesting I'm lacking,

Suggesting there's something wrong here.

And so I take my attention outwards looking,

Something wrong here,

I better,

I better go find something to fix that.

So,

You know,

We go desperately looking for something to kind of fix it,

You know,

Believing so inherently that yes,

There is something here that is wrong,

That is lacking,

That is broken,

That is incomplete,

That is separate from everything else,

Right?

That I'm separate,

I'm over here on my own,

Instead of seeing that,

No,

I am a part of this.

And there's,

There's no way that we cannot be a part of this.

We didn't,

You know,

This feeling so much of our feeling of unworthiness and lacking with the ego,

Is this feeling like,

I'm the only loser in the world.

I'm the only one experiencing this,

There's something inherently wrong with me.

And we believe it.

But when we start looking and seeing,

And first of all,

Investigating the ego itself and seeing what is it that's here,

And through the feelings,

I find the feelings such a helpful place,

Particularly when the feelings are very intense.

But also through self-inquiry,

Asking ourselves,

Who is it that feels unworthy?

There's such a strong belief that there is something solid here that is broken,

There's such a strong belief in it.

We so believe what the thought is pointing to.

And then with self-inquiry,

We question it.

Well,

Who is it?

Who is it that's suffering right now?

And you look and you can't find it.

And it's like you've pulled the curtain back and you go,

Oh my God,

It was just this thought,

There was nothing there.

And in seeing that you're realizing,

Ah,

There's no lacking at all.

There's no incompleteness,

There's no separateness.

There's no separateness.

Every single one of us is arising interdependent,

Interconnected.

No one is immune from that.

It's impossible in this universe for something to arise independently.

Nothing arises that way.

And yet we keep thinking that we do.

We keep thinking that somehow I'm the separate,

I don't belong,

There's something wrong with me,

Doubting ourselves.

That's just the thoughts,

Just the thoughts,

Just the ego.

And it's sustaining itself with those thoughts,

Because as long as I think I'm a loser and there's something wrong with me,

Then I'm going to keep looking for something outside of me to feel better.

And I better buy another book,

And I better go to another seminar,

And I better go do another thing.

And why isn't it working?

Why isn't it working?

You're trying to fix.

We talked about this the other week,

When we talked about all these images and how my view is that spirituality has been very conflated with self-improvement and materialism,

Right?

And so we're always kind of,

Oh,

There's something that needs to be improved here,

There's something that needs to be a little better here.

No.

Again,

It's like pointing to the mountain and going,

You should look differently.

You should not look like that.

The mountain is arising based on the conditions.

The tree is arising based on the conditions.

This is arising based on the conditions,

Based on the conditions.

Nothing independent here,

Nothing independent,

Separate,

Solid here.

So how could I feel this,

Like,

I need to improve,

I need to be improved.

Again,

It's like saying the rain,

You're not coming down the best way,

Rain.

You could be a little improved.

Why don't you do it differently next time?

You're such a loser,

Rain.

Why are you doing it like that?

I mean,

As ridiculous as that sounds,

That's how ridiculous it sounds when we're trying to improve ourselves.

And ironically,

Again,

Because this whole path is filled with paradoxes and it's just,

It is the way it is.

Ironically,

You stop trying to improve yourself.

Ironically,

When you see,

You know,

How you are arising,

All the conditions of how you've been arising,

How interdependent,

Interconnected you are,

Things appear to be a little easier.

They are,

Sorry,

They are a little easier.

Because you're not carrying around all this baggage that you were carrying around before.

The baggage of me that needs to be more improved,

The baggage of me that needs to have a better experience over there.

You're not carrying it around anymore.

Oh,

What do they think of me?

What do I think of me?

Did I just say something wrong?

I'm such an idiot.

I can't believe I did that,

Right?

Instead of just recognizing,

Oh,

Those were the conditions.

Yeah,

That didn't come out right,

Did it?

Yep.

Those were the conditions.

Not to say,

I always want to balance this out because someone's ego is going to go to the extreme side of this.

Yes,

If the conditions were arising that something came out of this mouth that was unkind,

Yeah.

As soon as that recognition is there,

Go and apologize.

You know,

Not because your ego is damaged and can't handle it,

But because there's the recognition someone was hurt.

And not to explain all the conditions of why it happened.

That's for you to know,

Not for them to know.

Yeah,

Sandy,

Yeah.

I need to be more spiritual.

I mean,

That is the paradox of it all right there.

That should be the t-shirt.

I need to be more spiritual.

Signed the ego.

You know,

Or on the back,

Signed the ego.

Says the ego,

I need to be more spiritual.

You know,

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is a path of seeing.

It's not a path of seeking.

It's not a path of becoming something.

It's a path of seeing.

Of seeing in each moment.

What is it that I have taken to be me?

This thought process,

It rules your life.

That's where the suffering is coming from.

That's what's so painful.

Like we go,

Oh,

The practice is hard.

What's hard is the holding on to all this suffering.

That's what's so hard.

It just takes a moment,

A moment of clarity,

A moment of mindfulness to start to break you out of it.

It is ingrained.

It is very ingrained in us.

But what's so hard is just to continuously to keep falling for it,

To keep falling for it.

When the instructions really are quite clear,

I mean,

They're not on day one.

I wouldn't start out a beginner meditation class with this.

I mean,

Just the terminology,

The ego,

The chasing,

The grasping,

The resisting,

All of that's very new for a lot of people.

I wouldn't start on day one with this.

But if you've been on this path for a while,

And you're still finding that there's a lot of fear,

A lot of anxiety,

A lot of doubt,

A lot of grasping happening,

Then I would point you in the direction of more seeing,

Looking at what's happening.

Use self-compassion,

Use mindfulness,

Use your self-inquiry with compassion,

Like Sue's saying.

Use the tools to help you see what it is that you have taken to be who you are,

That is running the show,

That you believe is running the show.

What you believe is the doer behind the doing.

What you believe is the thinker behind the thinking.

What you believe is the controller behind the controlling.

What you believe is the decision maker behind the decision making.

To keep looking at that,

To see for yourself.

Because initially,

This is an intellectual exercise.

It's either starting to make some sense intellectually or it's not.

But if it's starting to make some sense intellectually,

Okay,

You're ready.

Look at it,

Question it.

Every time you're mindful of your experience,

And you feel that contraction,

And you're breathing,

And you stop breathing,

And then you breathe into it,

You open up.

And what you're noticing there is,

Oh,

It was a sensation.

There was a thought and a feeling,

And together,

That kind of created this propelling outwards.

And I noticed it,

I was mindful,

Because I know I do that a lot.

Maybe that's your thing.

You know that you're constantly chasing,

Everyone is to some degree,

Whether chasing or resisting,

Chasing or resisting.

Some can be a little more on the resisting side,

Some can be a little more in the chasing.

But we're doing both.

They're both,

Again,

Two sides of the same coin.

So you're mindful of it.

Oh,

It feels so real that there's something that would be happier if it got over there.

And then,

I mean,

Just the other side of the dishes.

It's amazing how it doesn't have to be anything huge.

We're just,

I could just,

I could just get there.

If I could just get on the other side of this traffic light.

Like we set up these silly little arbitrary things.

If I could just get there,

Just the next thing done on the errand,

Then I'll be satisfied.

Oh,

No,

Now there's five more things.

There's the next thing.

Oh,

No,

Still four more things,

Just the next thing.

Right?

So just to keep seeing that contraction,

And you recognize it,

And you allow.

The key is recognizing.

If you're not recognizing that you're doing it,

You're lost in it.

You breathe,

And you create space for what's here,

For the feelings,

Not the story,

The feelings.

And you investigate.

And it depends on,

You know,

Again,

You can investigate with self-compassion.

You can use self-compassion at the beginning,

Or you can just,

Again,

That error on the to-do list.

What is it that wanted to get over there?

Where is it?

Where is it now?

Because I've recognized it.

I've breathed some space in here.

The feelings are starting to,

They're less like this.

They're a little bit,

It's like the hurricane's starting to dissipate a bit.

Where is the one that's going to be happy over there?

And now you see,

It cannot be found.

It's not here.

It doesn't exist.

And in that moment,

There's the freedom.

Ah,

No separate self.

Not that you don't exist.

You're here.

You're here.

Of course,

You're still here.

You didn't vanish,

But you didn't split yours.

That little me that you believed yourself to be the self,

All of a sudden,

You've seen it.

You didn't kill it.

You can't kill something that doesn't really exist.

You see through the illusion.

I saw it,

And it's gone.

And all of a sudden,

You're still doing the same thing.

You're still only on item number two of the errand list.

But you're here,

And you feel pleasant,

And you feel whole,

And you feel complete.

And it's like,

Yeah,

We're getting things,

You know,

Still going to keep doing the things on the list.

But I can drop that 100-pound bag off my back now.

Wow.

And I can look around,

And I can see all these people are stuck in traffic with me too and all.

Maybe I can send some compassion their way.

Maybe I can do a little tonglen,

Open my heart to them.

Maybe I can find some connection.

Because in this particular moment,

We've all come together at this place,

Right?

And then let's see what happens.

And let's see,

And let's see.

And being more open to seeing what's happened,

Not trying to control what's happening,

But just,

Okay,

Let's see,

And let's see.

And you're more,

You're awake.

You're awake.

You're awake.

You hear the sound.

Maybe you see a little bird flutter off to the side that you wouldn't have noticed before because you were so bound in your suffering and needing to get to the next thing.

So again,

We keep using the practices are not to bring comfort.

It's not about,

Oh,

I feel uncomfortable,

So I better do my practices to feel more comfort.

It's to see.

There was nothing here that was uncomfortable to begin with.

There was an uncomfortable feeling arising.

Yeah,

There was some tension arising based on conditions,

The thoughts,

Whatever is on the schedule,

Like all those conditions coming together.

And then you're seeing like,

Oh,

Nothing solid,

Nothing independent.

And to keep doing it again and again,

Because the ego is very persistent.

But every time you do it,

Every time you see it,

And that you're really,

You're clear on your motivation is freedom.

So even when you're listening to Dharma talks,

When you're listening to other,

You're reading a book,

Right?

You're doing it differently.

You're not getting attached to what they're saying.

You're seeing what they're pointing to,

And it's opening you up.

And you're like,

Yeah.

And then sometimes it is just the right words that,

Again,

Kind of open you up,

But you keep working with it,

With what's here and seeing.

So the practices are not the the end point,

The practices are to help us see.

You're not getting out because you were never in.

Again,

I got to give that to Paul Hederman.

Such a great,

I mean,

That was one that kind of blew me away.

The reason you can't get out is because you were never in.

You were never in.

But if you don't see that,

You will keep trying to get out.

So you've got to see,

We've got to use the practices wisely,

Checking our intention for our practices.

Keep checking our intention.

And Paul,

Thank you for the donation.

I think that's two donations from you now.

Thank you so much,

Paul.

I appreciate that.

I do.

Thank you.

So from Lynn,

What we think of something is what creates a problem,

Things,

Situations,

People just are.

I mean,

We,

It is the whole cycle,

Lynn.

I mean,

It's this,

We have this imaginary self,

We just imagine ourselves into existence,

And then we start creating imaginary problems.

And now I've got to have some imaginary solutions to the imaginary problems to appease a little imaginary me that is only going to be satisfied for a few moments and then go away.

And I think that's but,

What else?

And then we just keep going around again and again and again.

We don't have,

We imagine all these problems that we don't have.

And I'm not saying that we don't all have things,

You know,

Situations,

Maybe a relationship that's a little bit challenging over here,

A pain in the back,

You know,

Something that's going on.

We all have things that are going on,

But they're not happening most of the time.

And so,

Lynn,

Where you're saying being human is exhausting,

No,

Being the ego is exhausting.

Being the ego,

Being anything other than being is exhausting.

But when you are just being,

Because you see there is nothing solid here,

You're arising in one situation with different people,

Always kind of a little different depending upon where you are,

Not like,

Hopefully not trying to be something different,

But we're always arising a little bit different.

Like,

Yeah,

These are the conditions.

And sometimes they're a little stressful.

Sometimes things are,

Oh,

Things are kind of speeding up.

You're running late.

You're running for the plane.

Oh,

Okay,

Let's go.

Let's go.

Let's go.

Let's see if I catch the plane.

You know,

Let's see.

And if I don't,

Let's see.

Let's see what happens,

Right?

And so it's again,

It just changes this thing.

It's not the being,

The being is not exhausting.

The being trying to be something is exhausting.

That's what's exhausting.

And Kathy,

The quote was,

The reason you can't get out is because you were never in it to begin with.

I might be paraphrasing just one or two words,

But it's the,

You know,

This is what we're all trying to get out,

But you were never in it,

Right?

This is the,

Like,

I mean,

I heard that and I was just like,

What?

Like,

You see this futility.

You see this kind of,

Oh my God,

That's exhausting.

That's exhausting.

You see this futility that you were trying to get out of something you were never in.

And the whole time you had the capability of looking.

And it's just like,

I mean,

I've used this example many times when Dorothy,

Actually,

I use the example of Dorothy pulling back the curtain on The Great Oz and going,

Oh my God,

You're just this little old man pulling all these levers.

But then the great,

You know,

The witch Glenda,

It's Glenda the good witch,

Says at the end,

You know,

Just click your shoes together and you can go home.

And she's like,

You could have done that the whole time.

You could have done that the whole time.

You've been racing to get there somewhere.

She was racing to get to the city of Oz and thinking that something was going to happen there.

The whole time she could have clicked her heels together.

And the whole time we could too.

When the conditions are right,

The conditions are right and they're arising in a way,

And then we're,

You know,

You're here,

That you're here,

The conditions are right.

If you haven't logged off yet,

Like some,

Some will have been said,

I don't know what she's talking about.

That's fine.

Right?

Maybe we just planted a seed there for later.

But you're still sitting here.

Lynn,

You're still here.

Kathy,

You're still here.

Paul,

You're still here.

Yeah.

The conditions are right.

You can click your little heels together at any moment,

At any moment.

And in quotes,

You know,

Be home.

And it's using the practices with the right motivation for freedom.

So using them wisely,

Using them how they were intended.

And again,

It's okay.

If time,

There are times when you just want some comfort,

And you just want to go on a Dharma talk,

And you just want a little comfort,

But just know that,

Okay,

I'm just looking for a little comfort right now.

Of all the things you could be doing to distract yourself from the pain,

From the fear,

You know,

Going on a Dharma talk is,

Is,

You know,

Not a bad thing in that,

In that situation.

But just even recognizing,

Yeah,

I'm doing this because I want a little comfort.

And so let me come to it with that motivation,

Understanding what I'm really looking for.

And in that,

Probably just that enough can start to point us a little bit going,

Oh,

Yeah,

There is something here that wants comfort.

Because we're so looking for the comfort,

We don't even recognize it.

So that might be enough.

And still,

Come on,

Listen to a Dharma talk,

Do a guided meditation,

You know,

And see where it takes you.

Just be mindful of that ego,

Always comes with a contraction.

Always,

Always,

Always,

Always.

Whenever that little feeling of,

Oh,

Something's just not quite right,

Because we're so used to the stress hormones,

We're so used to them,

We're so,

They're so familiar.

We're so used to being in this state of fear,

Like a little squirrel,

We're looking around,

Where's the next hawk that's going to get me,

Even though there's no hawks around.

We're so used to living in that state.

There's such a familiarity to it,

That even we'll do our practice,

You know,

We'll start the day,

We'll do our meditation practice,

Which is so helpful,

Sets the nervous system,

Resets the nervous system,

Gives us that state of openness,

Right,

To know what is a normal,

Healthy,

Balanced nervous system for a being that is living in pretty much safety,

Like this is good.

And then as you go about your day,

When you notice that little bit like,

Oh,

Something's just,

It's not quite right.

It's just that feeling.

And we're so used to it,

Like it's kind of like the slow boil,

That we just,

We don't even realize this one's heating up.

So we've got to be mindful of that little bit,

It's just something's not quite right,

Right?

There's just a little bit of the stress,

It's like,

It's time to feel me again,

You know,

It's been a while,

Right?

And so just that too,

Again,

Oh,

Breathe mindfully,

Feel it.

There it is,

Just that,

There was a little pull.

I'm not even sure what it was to,

Or there was a little resistance.

I'm not even sure what it was to.

It was kind of deep in there,

But I could feel,

I could feel the stress hormones,

And just to be,

Be with it,

To breathe into it,

To feel it.

Oh,

And investigate,

What was that?

What was that?

Because I thought it was me.

And then you see again,

No self,

No self,

No separate self,

No independent,

Separate self.

You are a part of this,

You cannot not be a part of this.

And so we keep looking,

We keep looking,

We keep looking,

We click our little shoes together,

And you're in that moment awake.

And to not force,

To not force any of this,

Because we can't force it if you're getting this,

Like Paul,

I think you were saying too,

Like on an intellectual,

You really,

Well,

You know,

In fact,

You were saying there's a deep wisdom that's kind of accessing here.

Great.

And for others that have,

You know,

You're just getting this on an intellectual,

Don't,

Oh,

Don't grasp at that.

Don't grasp at that.

I've got to make this happen.

Don't,

You know,

Be mindful of that.

Okay.

There's something,

Right?

Because we do that,

We get it,

And we're like,

Oh,

I'm losing it.

I'm losing it.

I'm losing it.

Mayday,

Mayday,

Right?

And we start grasping again,

Right?

And it's just,

No,

No,

No,

No,

No.

It's okay.

There was something here.

There's a little crack coming,

A little light's coming.

And I've got to be okay with giving this time to marinate,

Because maybe there's another condition that's going to come along then,

And it's going to,

Oh,

A little more light's going to come in,

And then another condition.

But just to be careful at grasping at this too,

Right?

It comes in and goes,

Right?

Just to not force,

Like,

I need to understand this.

I need more knowledge.

I've got to get this.

That's,

Again,

Just another form of grasping,

Another form.

Okay,

Leslie,

And I'm so sorry you can't hear.

Macy was having trouble at the beginning too,

So I don't,

You probably can't hear me.

I'm sorry.

I'm so sorry,

But I gather everyone else has been able to hear me.

And I'm so glad that you enjoyed the Dharma Talk,

Sandy.

Yes,

Kathy,

Information addiction.

Oh my gosh,

You know,

And it's like,

But I need to be informed,

You know.

And it's just that,

Again,

That little sneaky way that we kind of get in there.

No,

Give me more information.

Let me feed.

I've got to feed the ego.

Oh,

Paula,

But you're saying you can barely hear me too.

But everyone else can hear.

Oh,

Okay.

And I could have put this up a little bit more.

Hang on.

Now that we're nearly at the end of the Dharma Talk.

Is that a little better?

Kathy?

And Paul,

Is that a little better if I've got?

Okay,

I had it too far away.

I'm so sorry.

This is,

I did get this microphone last year.

One of the things that's nice about it is that,

Oh,

And Janine,

And good to see you,

But it was quiet.

I'm so sorry.

The recording,

It will be fine,

And the recording will be up.

What's nice is it blocks out a lot of the other sounds,

But it's,

I do need to talk more closely to it.

So,

Okay.

Oh,

Libby,

You've been fine though.

But yeah,

Okay.

I'll just remind,

Tell me sooner,

You guys.

Yeah,

Just tell me sooner.

Okay.

Oh,

Thank you,

Julie.

Is that Julie from Los Barilas?

Oh,

Julie from San Diego.

Is this Julie,

The flight attendant?

Oh,

Julie,

You and I have had some separate exchanges,

I believe.

Oh,

From Los Barilas.

Okay.

Oh,

But from San Diego.

I didn't realize that.

Me too.

Yeah.

We're neighbors down here in Mexico,

Kind of neighbors.

She's about an hour from me.

Yeah.

And I was in San Diego 25 years before here.

Okay.

So,

Just for those of you that did struggle with the sound,

The recording is coming up.

So,

I will put this whole Dharma talk up.

I'll put it up on Insight Timer.

And I just wanted to come back to,

Oh,

Because Lynn,

You were saying,

Yeah,

Just the fear of missing out.

Yeah.

So,

Just be mindful of that too.

Just be mindful of that.

You know,

Or for those of us that are introverts,

The fear of being included,

Right?

The FOBI,

Right?

Be mindful of that,

Right?

Because then that's the resisting side.

Oh,

I don't want to be included.

You know,

Don't ask me to come.

So,

You know,

Just be mindful,

Anything that's grasping.

And again,

Just to notice,

Oh,

Here's the fear of missing out.

Oh,

Okay.

Let me feel it.

Right?

Again,

We're so locked into the story that there's something out there that I could get to.

There's something here that could get there that we don't even realize I'm missing out.

But I'm actually,

What I'm doing is torturing myself in the meantime,

With all this constriction and all this pain.

That's what I'm doing.

That's what's happening.

So,

Just to keep all of the ways,

And Mary,

Thank you so much,

My dear.

Thank you.

Another of our little San Diego crew.

It is a helpful exercise to write down,

Like,

Just notice throughout the day,

Kind of some of your most recurring thoughts,

Right?

Some of us tend to have themes,

And they can stay for a week or so,

Depending upon what's going on.

Oh,

This difficult person,

Or this relationship,

Or,

You know,

Fear of,

Yeah,

There's an event coming up that you're not invited to.

And oh,

So the fear of missing out is coming up a lot.

And if you can write it down and identify what they are,

Then you can be more aware.

And you can look at the list and look,

Okay,

I know who's coming today.

Oh,

Fear of missing out,

You're going to come later.

Oh,

That relationship that's a little bit,

You know,

Going through some difficulty,

You're going to come up later,

Right?

Not that you can't think about the relationship,

But not in an,

You know,

We don't want it happening in an unconscious way,

Right?

Doesn't mean that you can't sit down.

In,

You know,

Maybe do some Tonglen would be a healthy,

Skillful thing to do.

But,

But yeah,

When you can be aware,

The more aware you can be of the ways in which you're kind of your top 10 playlist,

You can be a little quicker to get them,

You can be a little quicker,

Because you can also just think,

Oh,

That's on the list.

Oh,

That's on the list.

That's on the list.

I don't even,

You know,

It just,

It helps you identify it more quickly.

And bliss.

Thank you for the donation.

Thank you.

And the joy of missing out.

So yes,

I would say,

Yes,

The other side of that,

The joy of missing out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's,

There's lots of ways in which we create a lot of anxiety and fear and doubt and self-loathing and unworthiness with our thoughts.

They're not your thoughts.

They're not your thoughts.

They are conditioned.

And that can be too,

We can feel like,

Oh,

I can't believe I had that thought.

Oh my God.

You know,

I'm a spiritual person.

I shouldn't have that kind of a thought.

They're not your thoughts.

And so,

Just as,

As,

As the conditions arise that you,

You're more mindful at some times,

To really make sure that you're coming to the practice with the right motivation.

Freedom.

I do get what Anthony DeMello was talking about,

That most spiritual seekers are not,

Are not on a path of awakening because they're just looking for comfort.

They're looking for relief.

But I genuinely believe that everyone does want this,

That people want the freedom.

They want the awakening.

They just,

It's,

It's kind of part of the path we get.

You know,

Ego just slips in there,

Right?

And goes,

Don't notice me over here.

And we go,

I won't,

I won't.

I'm more spiritual now.

I'm just,

I'm going to be more spiritual next week because then I'm going to finish the course and then I'll be more spiritual.

Right?

So,

You know,

It's just another trick,

But you see it,

You see it again.

You're like,

Man,

That was a good one.

You really got me on that one,

Man.

It was so subtle.

But the more you keep looking,

The more you keep looking,

Using your practices wisely,

Compassionately,

Not getting too attached to anything,

And just letting this,

You know,

Letting this happen.

You can't force the awakening process,

But we can,

You know,

Use these conditions of this talk to help you see where you might be going a little bit astray,

To bring your attention back to what you're looking for,

To find the freedom,

To find the freedom.

Okay.

So with that,

I think I am just going to go ahead and end us right here.

And just,

Okay,

So next Sunday,

What I am going to do,

And Janine,

For those of you in Australia,

And Chris,

I don't know if you're here,

Libby,

My sister from Australia is here.

So next Sunday,

We're going to do,

Because I said I was going to try and do a half day mindfulness retreat a month.

So I'm going to do it next Sunday.

And,

But what I'm going to do is I'm going to start it at noon,

Which is when we started today.

So noon Pacific time in the US,

Which I know is 5am for those of you on the East Coast in Australia.

And I know it's getting a little,

I think it's maybe six or seven,

Six o'clock,

Maybe,

I'm not sure in the UK,

But this does seem to be a good starting point.

And then we'll maybe just do a little bit of a shorter in between retreat,

Maybe just two hours and then meet again.

So rather than me trying to do two,

So that for people in Australia,

Kind of doing it later in the day,

I thought,

Why don't I just start it at this time.

So we're going to do,

So we'll do a half day mindfulness retreat next Sunday.

And even if you can't do the whole retreat,

That's fine.

You can take the focus of what we're going to be doing for the retreat and,

And still do some practice with it.

Some,

You know,

Some investigating a little more deeply.

I mean,

I do like half day retreats,

Giving us this time to investigate these topics a little bit more.

This would have been a good one,

Actually,

To have done this one as a retreat.

Maybe we'll do that next month.

So just to let you know that that will be next,

Next week.

And then I'm not going to have class the following Sunday,

I am going back to Ohio for my mother's wake.

And so we will just have one Sunday off,

I will still be going back to Ohio every two months or so.

So,

So there will be one class just missing there,

But then I'll be right back the following Sunday.

Okay,

So I think that was all the announcements.

You're very welcome,

Lindsay.

Thank you,

Paul.

And thank you all.

And thank you all so much for the donations.

I so appreciate it.

Thank you.

And,

And for all the great questions and the comments.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Oh,

And great Janine,

You'll be able to catch.

Oh,

Sunday,

But you'll be able to catch the early session.

Fantastic.

Okay,

Good.

Okay.

And Lynn,

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you,

Julie.

So thank you all have a wonderful rest of your Sunday,

Rest of your Monday for those of you in Australia.

And,

And I will put I'll put this whole Dharma talk up on insight timer.

Okay.

So thank you so much.

Thank you,

Michelle.

Thank you.

Reviews

Thank you for the wonderful dharma talk. I think most people just trying to find themselves in this material world we live in, happiness and inner peace. The only difference between people who are spiritual, meditate or in the process of awakening vs the rest of the humanity ( most people) that we have better direction where to find this inner peace. Most people are just completely lost, no direction whatsoever and grasping fleeting pleasures that don’t last and never fulfilling. Just my 2 cents 😄. Thank you so much Meredith 🙏🙏🙏

I appreciate that you record these talks because I missed this one.. thank you 🙏

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